I bet they will eventually introduce a respec option, but to be able to respec now would cause too much abuse with the system. Its scary because its a new system and nobody really knows what is going to be good or not, which is a feeling that most modern mmo players are very uncomfortable with, I think it's best to just pick what sounds good to you, and the thing is, since nobody can have everything right now, pretty much any build will have a niche to fill.


The part about feeling uncomfortable really fits me, I’ve gone full trade on hoping Iced Phial of Corrupting Rage is gonna be good. But also regret, because maybe combat potions is still gonna be better. ITS TOO LATE NOW WE JUST GOTTA KEEP GOING, MAX PHIAL SKILL LESGOOOOOO


iced phial of corrupting rage share talent route with glacial fury that is definitely still looking to be bis for m+, so it's not all wasted. combat potions on the other hand is often not used at all by the majority of the community, even if they're really strong as well.


Thank you fren for making me feel better about my choice <3


Why will glacial fury be bis for m+?


Because it says "When you first attack a target", and in M+ there will be many "first targets" to attack, unlike raids where there's mostly only one boss.


Thats not how it works. You'll have a ~8k proc on ST due to effectively no stack uptime. In multitarget you get at most a 75% buff ro it. But stat phial scale way better into multiple targets. Because they apply a multiplier to your dmg, and thus scale better into multiple targets. Eye of the storm isn't implemented yet, so I chose static empowerment. While glacial fury increases 5T dps only by 3.7%, static empowerment increases my dmg by 8.6%. This is flawed by having the 5 same mobs for 5 min, but e enough if there were 5 new targets every 15s, glacial fury would only be 6.46% dmg increases. So at least for my spec, glacial fury is strictly worse in m+, except maybe if you'd re phial for bosses and such.


because it does a boat load of damage in aoe scenarios, and people care about a boat load of damage in aoe scenarios in m+.


It doesn't scale that we'll into aoe. Best case scenario is cube root scaling with a 5t cap But some specs might use it, although it's literally half the value of stat phial at 5T for my spec


FYI maxing your phial skill MAY NOT allow you to make rank 3 phials guarenteed. Please check the math and count the skill on all the paths. You may not get max. Inspiration is the most consistent way.


atm inspiration is the only way for anything that isn't vers flasks. There are not enough points available. High enough skill lets you use cheap materials and still get it with inspiration though, which is a huge money saver so higher skill is not a waste or anything.


So many people are going to find out that even when you max every single knowledge point, there will still be recipies (even reagents/enchants/etc) that you will not be able to get rank 3 even if you have the best mats, tools, and accessories. It was designed to be impossible and inspiration is extremely valuable.


Am regretting my enchanter not routing straight for inspiration rather than building up high skill points, made about 1M in the first 10 days from profitable silver crafts but silvers are now worthless and because I didn’t spec deep into inspiration I can’t proc the gold enchants for at least another 2 resets which are still extremely profitable, but most likely won’t be by the time I can proc them :(.


Thanks for the info :D I'm gonna max out Phial Mastery for the finishing reagent, then move into Alchemical Theory 15 -> Inspiring Ambience.


HA you food! It's potion gang or bust!


That's how i feel about the amulet points i spend. The ring offers an extra socket, while you can just add sockets to the amulet. But many people skilled the ring first, so i had a significantly faster way to 100/100.


Fuck I want to go Alchemy on one of my two characters and I'm undecided between phials and potions. Was thinking phials because they will always be relevant and the double duration seems really nice. Never used combat potions outside of healthstones anyway.


That's what I did with JW. I'm pretty much the only one that bother to sell a certain item on the entire EU at reasonable prices. I have some clients on that niche and make around 300k in 3 days just by selling on that niche.


I think what people don't realise is eventually you can get everything anyway. This is only really an impact short term. Failing that, rule of thumb: It is better to be able to make/gather something than not at all. I prioritise my ability to get rare mats from mining (perception) and to be able to craft recipes (Optional reagents etc) in the first place. higher quality will come later. Improving raw skill or the like isn't much good if you can't make what the market demands in the first place.


Define *"short term"* and *"eventually."* If the former is months and the later is years, that's is a significant problem.


How about if the former is few weeks (say by end of January) and latter is by the end of a patch if you don;t grind and optimise like crazy? After all, people kept complaining how everything is to easy and comes to fast. Well there you go, Blizzard listened (for once) and proved the prophetic words of Ion once again. "You don't know what you want"


People can want something and not like the implementation.


I picked the disenchanting spec cus i was gonna run alot of Dungeons. Then the hyper spawning groups started farming and now i get more money selling greens and some blues and all my points are wasted. Sure, i get the epic drop every 5th hour or so wich sells for about 1,5k (atleast 2 days ago) but my profession is now completely useless.


This is what an MMO *should* be like. Not following guides to min/max. Do shit, sometimes it goes wrong and feelsbad, sometimes it goes right and you feel amazing. Feel things out, try and work things out yourself and just enjoy the ride. It's refreshing to not have to copy your char from a spreadsheet. More unpredictable systems like this please, so long as it's not tied to player power.


Best MMO experiences I've had personally are the ones where I had no idea what I was doing.


It's what made vanilla vanilla. Sharing little tips and tricks you've found out with your friends. Not reading on a Google sheet the exact optimal order to do everything.


Right? I took whatever spec I liked, the only thing I googled is where to find the hidden trainers. And I kind of had no regrets - until I went to reddit. But when I log back on and out more points into alchemical theory, I'll be happy again.


I'm on the same boat, i went full disenchant bonus on my enchanter. I get extra mats, extra items to disenchant, etc. Can't make a full level enchant to save my life tho


Good thing you can sell your mountains of mats to the people who do.


People were following guides even back in 2004. I remember in RO--pre-transcendence-it was totally possible to scuff your build by picking the wrong stats/skills--and the only option was grinding out another character.


The guides in 2004 were vague, wrong, not anywhere near as optimal and certainly not as anally enforced as they are today. Totally different situations.


> Not following guides to min/max. I would love to but for some inexplicable reason they decided none of the many flavors of "talent tree" we already have in the game were appropriate to use here. Replacing a UI element where you could have seen what perks were available down the line with a couple of silly circles annoys me greatly. I *have* to look things up or I can only see what I'm choosing 5 points at a time.


What? You can see exactly what perks you get within each circle ingame...


prob is none of that shit is very clear


Except that this gives an INSANE unfair advantage to all beta players and we are clearly seeing that with how the AH is looking and all the stories about people who have been making millions.


One respec per account and then crank the knowledge acquisition up a healthy amount. The issue here is that the “we protect you from yourself” game development that had been in the game for over a decade went away overnight. You can make talent builds that brick your character (although you can fix this) and you can make profession builds that essentially brick your profession until you have more knowledge - sometimes, a LOT more knowledge if you were dumping points all over the place. Plus multiple new stats that people don’t know the first thing about (inspiration, skill, perception, resourcefulness) and convoluted profession trees that don’t make much sense (you can add X and Y to an item with 40 points!). It’s better than the old system, but it needs training wheels for a little longer than 30 minutes post-launch.


Who actually cares that people might craft multiple items? Like seriously, who the fuck cares?


If that's the only abuse you can think of, you're not using much imagination.


As someone who didn't do enough research and started down a path I now regret, I feel your pain. However, as already mentioned, Blizzard would have had to program a way to make you "unlearn" stuff if you re-spec. They'd also have to program a way to delete anything you made. Otherwise, people would just learn everything within a week, make 5 stars for cash and then spec into something else.


Shouldn't be that hard though.They already have this in place for a lot of items. When you unlearn / respec, you'd get all your recipes deleted (this has always been a thing with the previous professions). If you had any items that had a requirement, you couldn't equip it. Engineering have always worked like this, and still does. You do have requirements. Respecced and/or changed professions? Then you lose all your recipes, and cant use those items - even if you got them in your inventory. Sure, a few tweaks would have to be made - but it shouldn't be that hard since most of it they already know how to do. You could limit a change to one-time only, or have a high time-limit on it. Once a month, or four times a year depending of how demanding the system is, or once every big patch (.1 / .2 etc). I'd personally love to see it as a one-time thing per character. That way you'd have a safe way of testing out how the profession-system actually works before you go deep into it. And that way you wouldn't have anyone abusing the system either.


You're not understanding what he means. Imagine if I went full on into making polearms and axes I could make them rank 5/5 for a bunch of people in the guild, reset, then go swords for other people. How would you take those weapons away?


I'm pretty sure people didn't read the OP when they said **Once**. The knowledge system should of come with one do-over, it's pretty absurd it doesn't. I researched a ton so I'm happy with mine but man most of my guild is having serious regret that's just going to fester and probably make some quit.


That's actually me. I feel like my tailoring is legit bricked right now, cuz I didn't take azure/crono cloth stuff


Same here, completely fucked my engineering.


Maybe it could cost some percentage of your total knowledge every time you want to unlearn.


I'm imagining it. Now what? Am I supposed to care? Don't take them away, what does it even matter?


That wouldn't be hard at all to balance. Make it possible to do this swap only once. That would get rid of the early confusion of the new profession-system.


Only once is too many times. That's essentially, with good planning, twice as many people doing crafting professions and easy access to the best gear. It just wouldn't work. At most you've lost a weeks worth of knowledge from not understanding what you wanted to choose It doesn't make a big difference.


I didn't play that long into the beta and never did with professions, so I wouldn't know. But at the moment it does look like you'll be very far behind if you didn't optimize your professions in advance. We'll just have to wait and see. Until then, we just have to agree to disagree.


Saying it’s “only a weeks worth of knowledge” is disingenuous considering how heavily frontloaded knowledge is with first crafts, one time treasures, and and profession masters. And while I can’t speak for other professions, that much knowledge in alchemy being used poorly will set you massively behind due to not being able to hit certain breakpoints. A single respec would help far more people fix mistakes made by learning than it would be abused by the goblins.


This is exactly what I'm thinking as well. While we'll always have those 'few' that will abuse things to get ahead, there are almost guaranteed to be more casual people who are getting pushed more behind due to how restrictive it is at the moment. Not everyone turns to wowhead before looking into a profession. That being said, it looks like this is another one of those things where the community is just split in half.


> That wouldn't be hard at all to balance. Hehe. 16 years of game history and still people come up with statements like this.


So, you could also just make the swords on another character. Introducing an item to reset your points, that you can buy once a months, would be a fair tradeoff between people being stuck with talents that do next to nothing, and people wanting to re skill for every order.


But then what's the point of the entire revamp? "Hang on let me switch to armoursmith real quick to make that piece of gear for you" it takes out the entire use of the Crafting Order system, and guild interactions. I love that im a potion alchemist and have the cauldrons for the raid, while there's another alchemist in the guild that's a phial alchemist and can make phials for everyone instead of a "one person do everything in alchemy" type of deal. If you have the option to just switch whenever you completely lose this.


There's a middle ground for everyone. They could allow people to swap talents once a month or only once. Something would be better than as punishing as it is now to pick a bad option.


They engineering and coding challenges are significantly less than the social and exploitative challenges that they'd have to guard against.


Nah making mistakes and figuring things out is part of the fun.


I think the best solution would be to let us delete all of our points, but make them obtainable again.


Yea just give them an out because its totally okay to implement a system with serious downfalls that are clearly fixable. But because those fixes require them to actually do their job and program a video game, its completely understandable why they didnt. Its absolutely beyond stupid to use the justification you did. If they couldn't be bothered to add ways to unlearn stuff then they should have never made the system to begin with.


A few tips for anyone looking for as much knowledge as they can acquire: DO DARKMOON PROFESSION QUESTS! 3-5 knowledge AND skill increase! Even if it’s a gathering skill and you have it at 100, it’s still worth the extra knowledge! Go on crafting orders and get yourself a missive for your professions. You get one knowledge, but can get a new one every week. Crafting professions all have secret treasures on the Isles that reward 3-5 knowledge each. Every crafting profession has anywhere from 3-10 of these scattered around. Something I’m hearing no one talk about is EVERY PROFESSION HAS A SECRET TRAINER SOMEWHERE ON THE ISLES. Talk to them for a one-time free 5 or 10 extra knowledge! It’s huge. Make sure you have collected every *type* of node for your gathering professions. Each version of windswept herb, hardened ore, etc. each give 1 knowledge for first collection. If you have the addon AllTheThings it will tell you what you’re missing. (Herbalists that have learned the Overload Elemental Herb spell, these also give knowledge for each element you overload!) Lastly, make sure you craft every recipe at least once. If you see it has that “first craft” icon still by the recipe name, that’s a guaranteed knowledge and mettle you’re missing out on. All said and done I’m sitting around 100+ knowledge in my inscription, and 120 in my herbalism. I could theoretically get most of this in one day. Edit: Thanks to u/qwertys118 for reminding me that if you turn on WM you can find Infurious herbs and ore, and only in WM. If you’re not interested in farming this, it’s still absolutely worth the knowledge points you gain from discovering them. (Don’t forget to overload it, too!)


To add on to gathering each node type, War mode spawns an element that doesn't exist in non-war mode which also grants knowledge for each node type plus overload.


>Edit: Thanks to u/qwertys118 for reminding me that if you turn on WM you can find Infurious herbs and ore, and only in WM. If you’re not interested in farming this, it’s still absolutely worth the knowledge points you gain from discovering them. (Don’t forget to overload it, too!) Now you're talking. Thanky you


is there a darkmoon quest for Jewelcrafting? I couldnt find one


Yep! You’re looking for [this](https://www.wowhead.com/quest=29516/keeping-the-faire-sparkling)




To add to this you can filter your recipes to first time craft so you don't have to click through all of them


Also if you feel like a degenerate, treasures (expedition packs, magic chests, dirt and the other half dozen different kind treasure boxes in the game) have like 1% chance to drop the dragon knowledge shard things. Rares also might have the same thing going on, so just murder any you see. Combine this with renown rewards and my jewelcrafting is at about 150 knowledge if not more at this point.


You can trade in Artisan’s Mettle for a knowledge tome at Rabul near the crafting order area. I got +10 alchemy knowledge yesterday. It’s got something to do with consortium rep but I’m not sure how it works exactly


A lot of people don't know you can also get some knowledge points twice from some factions, depending on your professions. Each profession has two of the four factions that will offer 5 knowledge points for it at 14 renown, you can check for this by looking at the renown tab, it's called crafters knowledge. If you see nothing at 14, it means that faction doesn't offer anything for your professions. Then there's also a second one I believe at 24. I can say that enchanting is given by dragonscale and iskaara, and inscription is given by dragonscale and valdrakken.


Ah I see you read the wowhead profession guide


i would just abuse it to get all the recepies.


This is why we can't have nice things. 😞


hust make it so you unlearn a specializations recipes when you swap away from them?


And what happens to all the items you crafted? Whats stopping someone from creating all the 5\* they need in one spec and switching to another?


i would like to point out the part of the title of this post that says "at least once" make it a one time thing and let them do that one time.


I'd like to point out the devs decision - no.


Why does everyone believe they can get 5 stars if they only specialize in a single item? Like do you really believe 5 stars is automatic?


yeah or just make it require that specialization to even craft


just add a 14 days cd on it


Clearly you didn't read how post said reset ONCE


i did read the post and once would be enough, i have around half of the recepies so with one reset i would be able to learn the other half.


There are specs like Decayology in alchemy that don’t do much. If you max it out without knowing it actually provides little benefit you are screwed.


Not a must, everyone can get everything eventually. The only way it could work would be to reset you back to 0 skill because otherwise it becomes optimal to level by going one route for recipe then dropping to specialize in what you want to make. It is supposed to take a while, you aren't supposed to be able to do everything. You should have to work with others, even in the same prof, to make things. Where the system fails is work orders, sparks are in too low quantity and crafted gear largely becomes irrelevent to the majority of the player base that won't have access to the high ilv upgrade mats once m+ and raids launch next week. The lack of ability to level many profs without Sparks is where many people are going to get stuck around 70 skill. More recipes need to give skill ups higher, many recipes from tree shouldn't use spark(or more need given sooner), and non bop items should be orderable through work orders (i.e. potions, drums, missives, wtc) without needing to provide mats so people can 'order' consumes without needing to jump through ah hoops for crafted mats (or let base mats be provided instead of crafted in between ones for things like ink).


Unpopular opinion ahead, be warned: There is no "meta" build for any prof that yields more profit than others. Yes, they are currently specc paths that are doing better or worse, but doing research / having beta exp. before didnt help in figuring out what may do well and what not in live. There is no guide anywhere outthere that tells you exactly what to specc to make a bazzillion gold. Way before DF release it was always clear that the profession system would be about Specialization, which means to focus on exactly 1 thing and be good about it. If you happen to skill much horizontly (for example, both potion & phial as alch), than this is not up to you doing no research, its just common sense that this doesnt make much sense. I spent like 1000 of hours on beta doing profession stuff, wrote a dozent of guides here in r/WoWEconomy and you can find my footprint in basically any wowhead profession guide, and I couldnt figure out a single "better" spec path than others. Maybe the only exception to that is knowing how to get mounted gathering, but I think that was common knowledge by release time. So, as long as you have a clear focus one 1 specific thing, you will be doing fine. If you dont, than there is enough time to do that with every new week. The rest is only how you market yourself.


Adding onto this, a lot of professions simply don't make a huge profit at the moment. Some actually lose gold when investing into them. For example, you'll likely lose gold if you choose to level enchanting (speaking as someone who did it myself). The good enchants cost a lot on the AH at the moment because they cost [an absurd amount](https://gyazo.com/eee3ca0a0370f022750dd5b82f3d928f) to craft.


What addon is that showing the current materials cost?


Auctionator. It's a handy AH addon and keeps the base WoW UI (or the base ElvUI).


Yes, but if you chose the right knowledge path with enchanting you could make tons of money selling the crystals. Your skill would still be low and you wouldn't be crafting a lot yet but you'd be set gold-wise.


Mounted gathering sounds like the tier 100 best unlock to get. What are the alternatives in other spec trees?


This is pretty untrue for gathering professions, honestly... First off, mining/herbing while mounted is actually not that good. It's not like you can hover and mine without getting aggro. Dragonriding, while cool, is actually *really fucking bad* for gathering. - The time it takes to farm a node is the same, minus the +50 Deftness from the final node on the wheel - You cannot use the Overload skills for elemental nodes while mounted - It only takes 1.5s to mount... I waste more time than this waiting for Vigor if I hit enough consecutive nodes The only actual benefit is that you can just take off if you get in combat, which you can still kind of check for without being able to mine while mounted to begin with. This all aside, no amount of skill can let you obtain some herbs/ore at the highest qualities, which means you should focus only on 2 things: Acquiring the highest volume per node (Finesse,) and the highest +skill you can get so you have higher base components to convert from. In the mining tree the best wheels, by a huge margin, are Sorting and Metallurgy. 10 in Mining Process -> Max Sorting -> +5 in Mining Process (gives +10 finesse) -> Max Metallurgy. That's 85 points total, and gives you the ability to get ore you actually can't otherwise, and basically maxes out your Finesse. Draconium tree is the best after that to smelt Q3 @ 20 points. It's worth noting the bonuses from Elemental Overload currently do not respect your mining skill, so going into that tree is rather worthless. Yay, lets overload a Hardened Node to get 4 rocks that all give Q1 Serevite... it's worth putting 10 points in to unlock Primal, but that's about it.


This. And to piggyback, the majority of players complaining about not having a reroll are the same player group that isn't following market trends well in the first place


The one that let's you gather while mounted is so much better than anything else ot isn't even close. I spent my point on some other shit without knowing that was a thing and now I'm fucked.


Yes, this is unpopular because it's wrong hahaha


You'll fully flesh out all spec points eventually. It's really not a big deal.


Right now my issue is I don’t know how I’ll ever level Leatherworking. The best path from 65 to 75 needs primordial leatherworking but I didn’t choose it and I’m stuck at 61 right now. Unless people start making more public work orders (although I bet there are some people just grabbing all the useful ones within 1s) the only path for me to even get to 75 would be to do it entirely with my own primal chaos which would take like 250 or something.


Then spam the Trade chat with the recipes and craft them for free or pay for orders. There was a JW guy that paid 10k/order - because he needed Primal Chaos. But that's that. I went into enterprising in JW and ofc I have no way to level up my proffession except using hundreds of Nozdorite, yet I am still at 79 because I create the the dragon hoards. I am also selling the cosmetics and toys. So while I don't sell power, I fill another niche


I'm doing LW too. I think once the raindrops the higher ilvl recipes will be more common. However, in order to get the highest ilvl you have to create a bunch of the 384 gear anyway and have almost your whole specialization tree filled out. I think after 2 weeks I have like 70 or so knowledge in LW and another 50-60 in skinning.


I honestly don't think I'll max it simply because I don't see me or anyone ever getting to 100 inscription. There are no work orders whatsoever.


Public work orders get sniped instantly. You need to focus on guild orders or send yourself orders from alts


Actually most public orders for inscription are 1-50 gold trash on treatises that stays up for quite a while, as most people with with high specs won't even do them not to strain the daily order cap.


Hard to tell the effective use of work orders until raids/m+ comes out and people actually need/want that gear. People only have one spark and/or aren't familiar with the process. Most crafters can't even make the best gear yet either


that can take up to 6 months and thats only if you are hard grinding it


What’s the rush? We’re not even 2 weeks in, raid and m+ are about to open up we don’t need to be completely maxed professions before the season even starts.


It should take awhile to unlock everything thats true but i shouldnt be somewhat screwed for a couple of weeks to maybe months because i didnt fully understand a completely new system and the way it works, as i am sure many other people feel the same way. Having a one use reset isnt asking alot


You’re not “screwed” because you picked the wrong thing to focus in, though. You’re just making less money.


So all grinds should be over in a week or two? Kind of ruins the whole point of a profession master.


They said No on this a while ago. You can get the meta recipe, make money then respec and they don’t want that. I know the meme of them wanting you to have a “meaningful choice” but here it actually makes sense. Infinitely respec on something like this is bad. Why have a point system at all then? Exactly…Don’t count on it changing


That is why i said atleast once. infinite would be ridiculous unless they gated it behind like a month long CD or something but i think once would be fine. sure theres people that would find some way to abuse it but i really dont think itd be that powerful or abusable doing it just once


Now instead a few will pick the right path because of luck/research and make hundreds of thousands of gold while the rest sit there unable to compete.


That's false. Everyone will have a niche. You may not have the niche you wanted, but you will have one.


The thing is it's annoyingly possible to have your "niche" (temporarily) be "I have to get off my dragon to pick flowers because this UI didn't even suggest that would be a perk at the tail end of botany ..." I couldn't care less about profit, it's just annoying how little information the trees themselves give you. *Especially* when it's asking you to make a (semi-)permanent investment with your points. (edit: I know it does say it if you mouse over the correct pip on a wheel and can read. But I read too fast and it ruined my day and I'm allowed to blame whoever came up with a UI for making it clunky even if the fuckup was on me)


The only thing I wish I could change is the specializations unlocked. I wanted to be a Gem Specialist for Jewel Crafting. I fucked up and didn't read that Jewelbox Specialist provided +Skill to ALL Jewelcrafting products. And so, until I hit 100 I can't invest into it to properly be a Gem specialist. That fuck up is on me, and it eventually will be fixed. But I can't help but look at Jewelry, which I've completely ignored and wished with allmy might I could re-lock that and make a switch. But I completely see why respeccing shouldn't be a thing so uuuuuuuggggghhhh.


Devils advocate: Not being able to respec creates market gaps and spec differentiation instead of everyone just using the “optimal” wowhead spec. It would be great if we all could rewind 4+ years and choose a different major but what would the world look like if this was possible. Not everyone can be doctors and lawyers, you messed up, it’s time to drop that profession and pick up some hard labor gathering and get to work.


Well rip. I wanted to get 2h swords. so I specced 10 in blades and 10 in longblades. After that I noticed, there are no 2h swords to craft. But only 2h Axe or mace which is on the other side of the spec tree. So I completely effed myself... Great..


People in this thread thinking that degens doesn't already have alts for all the crafts they want to specialize in. WoW billionaires and RWF people already have alts at 70 ready to craft in different specializations for the same profession. The only people being limited by this system is the normal players. You're not even being given meaningful choices since you didn't even know the choices you were making before you made them were permanent. 0 warning from the game, beautiful. A single respec would solve everyone problem with the novelty fuck up. Yeah, someone could craft items then respec and lose those patterns. So what ? You're losing the chance to craft that particular item ? You losing a whooping 1s comission ? That's the excuse for having to deal with being permanently locked into a bad specialization ? Oh and one more thing : They explicitly said that someone could eventually fill their specialization tree but that would take time to the point it's nearly impossible for a normal player to do it in a reasonable time. Don't use that as an argument. You won't care filling your specializations in the third season of the xpac when it's irrelevant.


Look I went down the wrong path 34 points into a tree that it turned out was unoptimal. I switched and now have all the stuff unlocked I needed. Everyone can unlocked 100% of it eventually. I'm firmly in the camp that when a prompt says "WARNING THIS DECISION IS PERMANENT AND CANNOT BE UNDONE" you have a choice to read and think over what you want to do. If what you want to do is throw caution to the wind then you can do that, if you want to read a guide first then allocate based on optimal crafting or gathering placement you can do that. But don't blame Blizzard for you saying I want to throw caution to the wind then read a guide and be mad that I didn't do the same thing as the guide.


There’s a difference between “this decision is permanent” and “if you put knowledge in this tree you will have no opportunity to level up because all the recipes that give +1 skill are in a different tree.”


Exactly. It seems like many people aren't aware that several professions are literally hard locked at lower level without building knowledge in a very specific way.


I could be wrong but I don't think any professions are hard locked. You can buy recipes off the auction house


Yes, recipes that don't give you any skill ups for crafting. Currently it's like 2 items not including the goggles which you need sparks for.


Sure, basically everything that levels you past 70 or so needs sparks. You aren't supposed to hit 100 anytime soon


It’s pretty hard to understand the future implications. Like it doesn’t even give you info in the UI you would need to have to realize that primordial LW is basically mandatory to get LW to 75.


There's profession equipment, flame touched gear and armour kits that give easy levels. Profession equipment got most my levels to max.


I think my issue is that I want choices to matter. If we can change our minds than it reduces the value of the decision. Admittedly on the other hand I've always been a fan of making respecing my character easier so maybe its just a mental hangup with professions and making gold that makes me feel this whole choices should matter thing.


Letting you respec only once or at high and/or increase cost (like classic class respec) would still accomplish “choices matter”. I’m annoyed that my LW feels pretty badly stuck and the information to avoid that wasn’t even available in the game UI. It’s like the devs are like “dude why didn’t you spend an hour researching this on wowhead before choosing”.


Choices should matter, but they should be *informed* choices. The system as it is now does a terrible job of teaching you anything about how your choices will affect you. I think there should be a one time per account respec as I bet 99.9% of people fucked up their first two professions because the game yells at you to unlock specs and use your knowledge before you fully understand the implications of your choices.


I messed up terryble yesterday, I had 50 points saved, since a specialitations on leatherworker are mostly by piece I wanted to wait to see what piece I needed before commiting. But yesterday I was looking how far I would go with those points, I was playing arround without planing to actually save the changes, I finished and closed the window, like 15 afte openeded the window again and without thinking I pressed the still glowing save button, now I have 30 points on the base node and a chest specialitation.


Is there a max on points? Or do you learn all at a point?


You do eventually learn all of the talents. Silly thing for people to be getting upset about.


Stupidest shit in the whole thread , why get gear cause there’s gonna be another patch ??


Next patch? I've seen players who maxed out their profession knowledge days ago. People acting like the sky is falling because they can't pump out max level gear on week two.


It's literally impossible to have knowledge maxed out and it will be for a while so whoever told you that was lying. Although I agree it's not a big deal.


Nobody and I mean nobody has every spec of every tree in their profession clown


Yeah, I was 40 points in, all over the place, before I saw what I wanted. New main inc


Especially considering some of the professions (ALCHEMY) have actual trap specializations that don't benefit the profession at all after you've had the profession for two weeks, yet still allow you to sink 40 points into it.


I specced into the toys and goggles for engineering expecting to be able to level off of basic recipes to 100 and then focus on making the best of what I could make. It turns out that if you don't spec for the cheaper crafts, you get bottlenecked at around 60 skill and the only crafts that give you guaranteed skill-ups are the epic gear and the really resource intensive toys.


Lol, those that are downvoting on this post are so obviously the ones with optimized trees and having monopoly on AH. Clearly don't wanna lose that.


I'd just increase the rate we earn points. The system seems like a good foundation but it's frustrating that you're hard capped on how much you can do. That and making crafting orders expire after 2 days and have a 20 gold cost per order.


I spec'd into Toolcrafting on my Blacksmith thinking (without looking) that all the tools would be in there. The hammers, the sickles, ect. They weren't. They were under the Weaponsmithing tab for some reason. All I can make is Khaz'gorite Toolboxes for Blacksmithing that nobody wants, and costs so much mettle that I can't upgrade my blacksmithing past 65. Before I realized I had locked myself down the wrong tree, I subspecialized into Hammer Control, locking me out of Armorsmithing/Weaponsmithing until I hit Blacksmithing 75. Which I can't reach because of the Khaz'gorite Toolbox, and literally have to wait to get the extra points from the Darkmoon Faire. If I had looked harder, sure I would have seen that the tools I wanted to craft were literally under weapons and not Toolsmithing (why?). But now I can't progress, I can't make money, I can't make anything useful for me or my guildies. Of the 10 or so active in my friend group only like 2 of us is making progress or money or both. The rest of us goofed and now can't do anything we wanted with our professions. It's a goofy system and I completely get why people are wary of folks respeccing for the best stuff, but put it behind a 1 month cooldown that progressively increases each time you do it (1 month to 3 to 6, ect). That way people can't just respec endlessly. As it stands, I'm months behind on my Blacksmithing (ruining any real chance to make gold, which is a bummer) and it kinda killed the entire profession system for me.


Same thing happened to me except that i picked hammer control because there is a tab in there that rewards 25% resourcesfulness which i assumed was on all crafted goods ( as it says blacksmithing goods) but it doesnt it only applies to like whetstones and stuff like that , so i have 40 points into something COMPLETELY useless because of unclear wording as one would assume anything a blacksmith makes is considered a blacksmith good. The amount of weeks itll take me to gather 40 points to actually go into what i wanted is ridiculous for a mistake with a new system.


At least give the option to respect a single time. I have become a jack of all trades and master of none... I realized too late that I should have specialized in a single thing rather than trying to get everything.. Now can't level up my profession anymore because nobody wants me to craft them mediocre gear.


thats what im saying , atleast let us respec like maybe 1 node? if you put a bunch of points into a single node and its not as good as you thought itd be letting you refund atleast once time in a node would be good


It’s silly that every other system has a display warning bright and loud “BE CAREFUL YOU CAN’T UNDO THIS DECISION” Then when it comes to profession knowledge blizzard is like “Lol you’re on your own kid”


The gay crafting couple tell you pretty much everything.


I think there's a popup the very first time putting a knowledge point in. It doesn't look any different than a party invite or summon though. After that there's nothing.


In the end you’ll have enough points to get everything in the specializations for the profession, so it’s all just temporary, next week they will release new quests which will help further your knowledge. Also, not to sound like an asshole, but you could have read what the choices provide you


I didn’t have any idea I wouldn’t be able to reset it either. If you’re going to hard lock a system, that needs to be very obvious. I was just dumping points as I leveled assuming I could respec it like every other talent system in the game ever.


I didn't even know u could only pic a new spec every 25 levels so now I'm stuck untill I get a ton of mettle and Wasted so many points in crafting sharp stones and theyr now useless cause apparently there's a new thing called runes now which is better


It’s not that hard


It's ultimately unnecessary due to our ability to eventually learn everything. Much like 'going the wrong way' in your artifact weapon (the respec for that was something I never used for that reason). Unfortunately with professions there's the added level of difficulty with learned recipes that would have to be cleared - I think it's an order of magnitude more complicated than dropping goblin engineering for gnomish.


Absolutely! They should have put a respec into this system, even if it was a fee (remember when changing your characters spec cost an increasing amount of gold, getting up to a substantial amount of gold if you did it enough?) I do think that allowing free, infinite respecs on the profession knowledge would be bad, but having a fee or time gate would have been fine. I read horror stories of some of the mining things at least not working at all, or not working as well it seemed like it would. It seems so wrong that you can spend your first chunk of easy points on something that you soon find out is complete garbage and then get locked into it. Then you have to wait for your like 10-15 knowledge a week inching towards what you realize you should have pursued first. The whole crafting system rework is a welcome change to the game, but one that has so many holes/problems in it that you can tell not enough thought and testing was put into it, unfortunately.


Enh, my only real issue is the lazy doubling of two handers for mats. I get most of the mats but for two sparks, thing better be at least 390 when I get it min.


I mean, you could just wait an extra week or two(varies depending on investment) . I dont think you're really going to be that far behind.


I disagree I think it's good the way it is.


Why are people crying over this? It's a minimal system that has close to no impact on your progress




Perhaps some type of charge system so you can only change it so often? Perhaps you would go to your worker guild hall and only change it in there? #covenants


nah we don't


I had to drop engineering because I got soft locked by recipes


Impossible. You may not like how expensive some were, but you cannot lock yourself from gains. It's simply not possible. At best you were temporarily stalled waiting on rep.


I am renown gated. I have to get like renown 19 to move on, better to just drop it and wait til later when I have it. Waiting on a time gate is literally what soft locked means


Anyone else with your specialization has the same limitations. There are no additional vendor recipes to be unlocked, so why do you need more baseline skill? You're obviously not alone in your feelings, but I cannot for the life of me understand what the actual problem is for you and your brethren.


what are you talking about? The whole problem is that because I chose the spec for tinkers I can not increase my skill level, nor is there any level appropriate recipes available. If I had gone another spec route, I would have recipes to craft and could increase to at least 75 so I could pick up another spec. If I had known that going in I would not have chosen the one I did, so I am literally stuck with nothing to craft or ways to gain levels to unlock other specs. The whole point of gaining skill levels is to unlock additional specs and widen the things you can craft.


You're not locked on renown either, folks have already maxed all of them


Gotta love blizzard’s classic “false choices” talent trees. It won’t matter in a year when you can max it all out but it’s really rough right now.


Honestly, I haven't went around and collected 90% of the treasures etc just for this fact. I may just swap to completely different professions so that I can do something useful with the trees. But then I also remember that eventually I will be able max out the professions.


I’ve totally been ignoring the specialization system because of this. I just have herbalism with a bunch of unspent points, with my second profession still undecided. If anybody has recommendations for what to do, please let me know. Maybe I should just read a guide on wowhead


As a player, if I could respec I would abuse the hell out of it when doing crafting orders. Can’t make belts? Respec Can’t make swords good enough? Respec Want to grind rousing materials? Respec Draconium? Respec The benefits are so massive they’d have to add a penalty or not allow respecs until it would be more of a hassle than just keeping your spec. But I don’t see much harm in allowing just one or two.


I'm sorry you didn't research your professions properly. I didn't either I am in the same boat. HOWEVER you will learn everything eventually that's part of the hook also if you've got a guild they should be building around you professions. Part of the damn hook about dragonflight is no borrowed power; professions are everything. I'm already at nearly 100 pts for mining knowledge. And 96 for Blacksmithing. You'll get there. It will take time.


I like it. It feels much more RPish and I look back on the first couple of misguided points fondly. It’s not even a big deal lol. You gain so much anyways, that you’ll eventually have the whole thing filled out.


You could've experimented on the beta. The reason why they likely wont do it is because people will abuse it.


i wasnt apart of the beta my friend


I mean on PTR server, anyone can go there


Once? Systems like this should never exist.


I've done most professions on alts my main I haven't chosen mine for alchemy cause I'm not sure what's best for mythic plus tank.


Yea I completely regret doing rings and necklaces now.


As someone that feels shafted, I also agree. I fancied the JC trinkets so specced hard into these and got the necessary rep and have made one. After an update this week the tooltip got updated on the trinket which shows how they actually work. This is nothing like the wording on the trinket. The tooltip reads like you get 15 stat per type of gem, stacking up to 15. What actually happens you get stacks per gem, so it basically cycles faster with more gems. Basically if you have 4 gems and get a proc, you'll get 4 stacks. Not more stats per stack. While the trinket is alright, it's nowhere near as good as I thought. I'll replace it next week no doubt. Now I'm fucked as I've put so many points in, I just gotta run with it!


I made a new character just for my gather mule cause I screwed the first one


I bet that will come eventually.


Want for it to be implemented on 10.2 dude, chill (/s)


They said the reason they dont want that is because you can get everything. They want crafting specialization to last the whole expansion and the choices you make to mean something. I think its weird people were just throwing points into whatever without actually reading them. They dont want us to abuse the system which will happen.


I still havent picked my engineering specialization because i have no clue how much improving the bombs from explosive trait actually gives you. I dont care about beeing a goggle or bracer crafter, all i care is to have some fun items as an engineer. There is also scrapper as an specialization that doesnt say anything how good or usefull it actually is...


Maybe someone with tailoring can help me here. I’ve unfortunately learned the first two specialisms which means I’m now stuck at tailoring 60 without dragon cloths or the ability to create purple armour which both stop me kinda progressing as the craft order system is empty for anything I could get skill points for? I don’t see an actual way now for me to progress


I would appreciate a one off reset but I understand why they don't allow us at least this early because of the abuse that could happen early season especially with world first raid coming up soon


just make it 1 week cd


You eventually will fill the whole thing in


With the prospect of being able to learn everything eventually i doubt they will implement a respec option. more likely well get more profession knowledge faster down the road


I am hard stuck at 65 blacksmithing because I went armorsmithing instead of weaponsmithing. The only recipes for armor that give skillups are using the inspiration doohickey we only get once every two weeks. If I had gone weaponsmithing, I could at least be making tradeskill tools and accessories to get skill ups. But here I am, waiting to hit mid 20s reputation for some recipes there. I haven't delved too deep into other crafting skills on alts yet, but I hear bad things about alchemy. The system is robust, and better than the old system, but it feels half-baked from some angles.


I still have no clue what anything does so…


i fucked up, and i admit i didn't read everything, but i assumed spec'ing into "Burning"(fire) enchanting would give me a better version of the weapon crit enchant. I was wrong, it gives you a healing weapon enchant.


Reset once every 30 days


1 weekly reset would be fine too


Personally, I'm just a little disappointed that I put 14 points into the "wrong" herbalism tree to let me harvest while mounted. That being said, I'm up to 36/40 on the right tree, so it's not the end of the world. Just a little sad.