T O P
Yelmel

Others are saying "suspected sabotage" for now but I wouldn't put it past Russia and I give Ukraine credit to know more than me. We all know Russia is a state sponsor of terrorism. This would be *on brand* terrorist act from Russia.


Doughspun1

At this point the investigative process is: (1) Is it something a total fuckhead would do? Yes: 90% Putin did it No: 90% Putin thinks it should be done


Yelmel

No argument from me on this logic!


holyshitlearn2spell

Why would putin think something non-fuckhead related should be done when he's a puny little fuckhead?


mtarascio

This source would be most reputable and certainly wouldn't announce this with any doubt. Doubly so with a damn war going on that they're trying to deescalate.


Medieval-Mind

I certainly hope you're not suggesting that a newspaper called "truth" and well-known for its unbiased reporting during the Soviet years would be biased! :shockedfaceemoji: /s


mtarascio

It's a quote, read the quote. That's what I'm referring to as a 'source' not the publication.


Yelmel

No argument from me in my relatively safe city and behind my phone using an anonymous Reddit account. I don't know but I, like you, give them credit.


pocket_eggs

Russia is guilty because only Russia is at the height of desperation. Their frontline is collapsing right now, after having badly recovered from the last time it collapsed a couple of weeks ago, their mobilization is turning to revolution, they have lost a quarter of a million young men fled across the border, with columns of others longer than their stuck Kiev convoy in April waiting to leave wherever there's a border crossing, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, you name it. The pipelines are offline anyway. Russia loses nothing from the sabotage, in the short term, and things are so bad right now they only care about the short term, but it's a threat that they can do this to other pipelines.


Yelmel

I totally agree with your deductive reasoning on this. Russia is flailing now.


Key-Appointment6205

Does this increase or decrease European reliance on petrol dollar?


Dragefisken

None of the above. Nord Stream 2 was never put into use, despite being completed. [Germany opted out due to the situation in Ukraine](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-scholz-halts-nord-stream-2-certification-2022-02-22/). It really "only" contains enough gas to maintain a pressure within the pipe. [The Baltic pipe was just inaugurated today](https://ec.europa.eu/info/news/launch-baltic-pipe-2022-sep-27_en), transporting gas from Norway to Denmark and Poland I've read a few posts claiming this could be Russia trying to hint that this new pipeline could *just as easily* be sabotaged. Norwegian oil rigs were also informed to be on the lookout for drones or any suspects vessels, fearing sabotage.


Youwanttoknow1

Norwegian oil rigs aren't ob the look out, they actually have seen 'mysterious' drones within meters from the rigs. https://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/krigogkatastrofer/norge-advarer-om-mystiske-droner/9445595


_Silly_Wizard_

Sometimes when you're on the look out, you see what you're looking for


FarawayFairways

> I've read a few posts claiming this could be Russia trying to hint that this new pipeline could just as easily be sabotaged. You don't suppose they've hit the wrong one do you?


Dragefisken

đŸ˜…


Bovinae_Elbow

Ask yourself, would you like to be paid in Rubles or yuan? Petrodollar is going nowhere.


sheepsleepdeep

I haven't believed a thing coming out of Russia probably my entire life, but that pipeline being taken out hurts Russia more than it hurts anyone else. Putin loses any leverage he had with regards to turning the gas back on. If a solution to the crisis in Ukraine comes about in within the next year, there's no way to begin gas deliveries to Europe again. With the pipeline being partially destroyed, the EU has even more incentive to divest from Russian gas sources on a more permanent basis. And with no Russian gas coming through that pipe for the foreseeable future even if a peaceful diplomatic and economic miracle happens, Russia's chief geopolitical and natural gas production rival, the United States, will be taking a huge chunk of that business away from them on a potentially permanent basis. This is quite a mystery. I won't rule out Russia doing some stupid shit, but it just doesn't make sense to me knowing what little we know at this point


bokononon

Another possibility is that the pro-war factions in Russia (including Putin) are making sure Russia is isolated from the West, so there's no easy way back for those who may wish to end the war and oust Putin.


Evari

Only good argument I’ve heard so far for Russia doing this.


YoMothaFlippin

Or just punishing Sweden like they said they would for attempting to join NATO


Holyshort

That ought to be the most expencive fart at your enemy operation ever done.


Zixinus

Back for who? Putin's greatest opponent is in a fucking near-gulag, his lawyer barred from talking to him. Who can come back? How would they oust Putin? The pipeline being inoperable hurts Putin because it removes reopening them as bargaining chips and revenue sources his sanctioned economy needs. He has asked Nord Stream 2 to be opened more than once. Putin knows he's losing the war and his best hope right now is losing the war a little and re-opening either or both pipelines would be a good bargaining chip towards a ceasefire agreement where he could do just that. It also further hurts Russia's reputation as a supplier of gas. That being off the table makes Europe have less reasons to bother negotiating with Putin because he can't offer something Europe knows he can't give. This benefits the USA, who want Russia so humiliated that it would destroy any of their imperial ambitions and potentially make China back off from Taiwan, and countries pro-war in Europe. It would even back Norway, who I think is pro-war and is building their own gas pipeline for Europe? Hell, it would benefit every party that's supplying gas to Europe except Russia.


Thatsaclevername

Yeah this whole thing is very weird, I mean at this stage in the game the question is "why". Problem is too, that every will be pointing the finger at somebody else, so it could have been Russians that did it, it could have been a lot of people. From what I understand the places that were ruptured are both in -relatively- shallow water, so it keeps the possible suspect list a little higher than I feel comfortable speculating on. But I tell you what, the why of this sucker is going to be a real bitch to figure out for the next few years.


meighty9

>at this stage in the game the question is "why" Pure speculation here, but I don't think it's coincidence that the new Baltic pipeline opened today. This could be Putin saying "nice pipeline you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it"


Thatsaclevername

By destroying his own pipeline? It doesn't make sense even if it was a threat. "Darn we can't use the new baltic pipeline, better go back to old Russ- oh wait he blew up that pipeline" it seems ass backwards.


meighty9

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense... but every other explanation I've seen makes even less. If it really is a threat it's more like "We will *not* be sending you any more gas. And if you don't stay out of it, I can take out your shiny new pipeline too. Have fun keeping warm this winter."


Rugil

It also incentivizes EU nations to turn on each other, securing their energy needs in the short term, possibly destabilizing their unity (against Russia).


Goodkat203

It is a safety measure for his regime. If the pipe not exists then a replacement power in Russia cannon offer up turning it back on in exchange for support.


Debesuotas

hm I wonder how did they do it in the first place. Its at least 100m deep....


Arkane-Light

Russia is culprit n.1, how many times have they committed self-sabotage (like in Dugin's daughter death case) to blame it on others? Way too many times. And also, to those who think it was an accident: "[https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/svt-avslojar-tva-explosioner-intill-nord-stream](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/svt-avslojar-tva-explosioner-intill-nord-stream)" the Swedish National Seismic Centre reported that on Monday two underwater explosions happened in the proximity of the Nord Stream gas pipelines.


AgitatedT

Of course they did it…that insane criminal putin death cult and war criminal country keeps doubling down. If they try to pull of those sham referendums in broad daylight it’s obvious this would be nothing to them.


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/27/7369307/) reduced by 53%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the head of the Office of the President, called the incident with a large-scale gas leak on the Nord Stream-1 gas pipeline a planned terrorist attack on the part of Russia. > Quote from Podolyak: "The large-scale 'gas leak' from Nord Stream-1 - is nothing more than a terrorist attack planned by Russia and an act of aggression towards the EU. Russia wants to destabilise the economic situation in Europe and cause panic before winter." > On the night of 26 September, the gas leak was recorded from both lines of Nord Stream-1 in the Exclusive Economic Zone of Denmark northeast of Bornholm Island. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xpmapx/presidents_office_considers_leak_on_gas_pipeline/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671393 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **gas**^#1 **Nord**^#2 **leak**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **pipeline**^#5


2wicky

If Russia did do it, they would be the first ones to blame the West. If they are silent, they probably have no clue either. Hate to say it but the west probably has a bigger interest in sabotaging these pipelines. Putin is throwing everything and the kitchen sink at this hoping to prolong it long enough to get thru winter. Because a harsh winter may work in his favour swaying western public opinion to cave and opt for Russian gas again at which point he can then demand the sanctions be lifted first and maybe even freeze the front lines. At that point, he can go back to his people and call it a strategic win and he will be able to live another day. With the pipelines out however, even if public opinion changes, Western politicians can now go back to their voters and say sorry, that's not even possible even if a deal was found. Putin may have just lost one of his most important get out jail cards.


Ehldas

There are plenty of other pipelines Europe could get Russian gas through, if they wanted. They don't.


Zixinus

Pipelines have limited throughput and are still under use. In fact, pipelines that go through Ukraine has Russian companies paying Ukraine fees to do that. Unless you mean that there are unused gas-capable pipelines from Russia to Europe?


Ehldas

There are around 10 pipelines from Russia to Europe, and many of them are currently either shut off or under-utilised. Russia is perfectly capable of delivering a lot more gas if it chooses to do so.


Sp3llbind3r

The public opinion might also be swayed to give Putin the finger. I don‘t think many people in europe think we should continue give Putin his way.


Hikari_Owari

Yep, it totally was an attack made by Russia and not from anyone who would benefit of Germany not giving up to Russia gas during winter. Yep, totally Russia. - Nah, not buying it. Russia can't bargain gas to Europe/Germany with both NS1 and NS2 having big holes from explosions. It's far more likely to be a 3rd party with direct interests in selling gas to Germany during winter, now that Russia won't be able to using existing infra even if the world wanted Germany to buy it.


Tycoon004

They could also basically be threatening the Baltic Pipe that opened today. Especially since it runs close to where these explosions happened.


Holyshort

Imagine they were intending to bomb that and made an ooppsie


Thatsaclevername

I mean I understand sending a message but it seems like a hefty burden to total one of your own pipelines just to get a message across like that.


Tycoon004

I agree, but there has been zero logic for months now. Every move has been escalation, and threatening the ability to take out the new pipeline is pretty in line for that.


Hikari_Owari

Same logic as threatening to decapitate the enemy king by sending his own head in a bag.


Zixinus

So why not just blow the Baltic pipe then? Then there would be no alternative but Russian gas. Instead, it's the reverse, there is baltic gas and no russian gas (through the Nord Stream pipelines at least) in the foreseeable future.


Tycoon004

I mean blowing up Russian property is VERY different from blowing up the energy supply of a NATO-aligned country. One sends a message, if at the cost of shooting yourself in the foot, the other basically triggers an immediate war with NATO.


Zixinus

But then blowing up the Baltic pipeline is an immediate war with NATO either way.


WWGFD

Well Duh! Russia is a Terrorist state!


Combatpigeon96

Russia’s gonna blame it on sharks or something


Zenith_X1

Another example of Putin's implausible deniability


xMWHOx

Who does this leak benefit the most?


PF4LFE

Actual Submarine action? Or a depth charge?


Yue-Renfeng

"Got a major problem that's probably your own fault? Blame it on Russia!"