As opposed to the complete collapse of US-Russia relations at a time of Putin's choosing, when Russia invades (even more of) Ukraine? I mean, that's what he's bargaining for, right?


**Putin :** We can collapse now or after vacation .. [your choice ..](https://imgur.com/a/OnDpKaf)


"what vacation?" ..."my troops going on vacation..." ... "wait what are you saying?"... "my troops...going... on vacation, like americans say 'wink wink'! why you not get my jokes..."--"because real life is not a game..."-- "of course it is, The Great Game!! remember?" ..


Personally I think the narrative Putin will use is that he is not invading Ukraine, but aiding nations under attack. The two puppet regimes that Russia has tried to prop up in Eastern Ukraine will likely 'declare independence' like Crimea and Russia will invade/enter as 'Peace Keepers'. These playing with words would be comical if it were not for the human tragedy that is occurring.


If it’s anything like 2014, expect a lot of russian bots screaming “WHERE ARE THE PROOFS OF RUSSIAN TROOPS IN UKRAINE” while russian troops are posting on VK


he used the adolf hitler excuse when he invaded crimea. there are russian speaking people in crimea. hitler used this to invade the sudentenland and austria. there are german speaking people.


Honestly, Putin has Xi and China's backing. That's why he has the balls to quack against the US and the Allies.


China's not going to shut itself out of its largest markets to entertain the irredentist rage-wank of a threadbare kleptocracy.


Irredentist is my new word for the day


I'm planning to use "rage-wank" more frequently.




JobbyJabbin's avatar looks like it could use an irridentist


Just because China’s not gonna shut itself out of its relations with the US doesn’t mean they don’t love watching Putin play Who gonna blink first with the western powers


of course… when your opponent(s) are busy fucking themselves, don’t interrupt ~ Sun Tzu (ish)


That's pretty much exactly what they're doing. They don't care about Russia or the U.S just care that two Geopolitical rivals clash.


i dont see any china backing. this is a "not our problem" from china.


Until China wants Vladivostok back


It’s a huge bargaining chip. Russia’s sole warm water port in the Pacific. China isn’t desperate for more ports.


China doesn't negotiate on the principle of fairness. If they can deny Russia a vital spot, then they will use it as a means to gain whatever they want.


On the other hand, having something to constantly threat about is an asset as well. Turning off the gas pipelines would be suicide for Russia, yet they always threaten to do so.


Russia and its rulers are somewhat detached, at least that is the prevalent theory. Most Russians don't even want a war. Putins popularity is declining. But there are many strategists and advisors that are still locked into a cold war mentality over geopolitics. Most analysts are saying they highly doubt Russia would invade Ukraine because it would be such a bad move for Russia. But generally they also say they can't be sure anymore because the Kremlin isn't always logical. Before the U.S.S.R invaded Afghanistan, the top advisor's and military leaders blatantly lied to political leadership and told them an invasion would be over in weeks. They knew full well it wouldn't, and that invasion costed the Soviet states dearly. But here we are again, the only difference being most analysts believe Putin is very aware that an invasion of Ukraine won't be easy at all


I do feel bad for the average Russian citizen. I'm sure few are interested in war and few have any say in the way the government is run.


At one point in time I was required to do a military after action for a foreign force while I was in the Marines. I picked Russian and the Afghan conflict. The amount of deceit that was aimed at their public was pretty staggering. Losses were dramatically under reported or not at all.


Your response and the post above are quite well-written and highly informed. I’ve become increasingly fascinated by Russian history and it seems their leadership is always “a day late and a dollar short”. Add in deceit and constant power struggles? The people always pay the price for it.


It's the kind of suicide that involves blowing a bunch of other people up with them.


>Until China wants Vladivostok back China don't claim this...


Tight Cuddles :D


Exactly, Putin just wants to control the timing of said collapse, that’s all. This absolutely needs to be a hard line in the sand that, if Putin crosses it, gets him proverbially punched straight in the face, it’s the only form of power that he respects.


I figured it collapsed when they installed a puppet president.


Russia is doing a careful balance between telling everyone who would listen that they don't care about sanctions at all and throwing tantrums every time the sanctions are mentioned lol


Russia would lose half its influence if Western countries just banned Russian oligarchs and their companies from buying real estate to evade sanctions.


Since we are in the subjects of real estate, let’s also add a tax on houses that are left empty. It will hurt Russian oligarchs who use real estate as a way to park money in foreign countries, and maybe make some of those houses more affordable for the locals.


I truly don't understand why that isn't a thing everywhere...


The Trump Org would then immediately go bankrupt again.


A small price to pay to troll the Russians


Sounds like a win win


I mean, of course he did? What else can he bargain with? This is confirmation that those sanctions would be disastrous for Russia. Putin is trying to ward them off by puffing out his chest and tough-talking us down. Who fucking cares. It's your fucking call Putin, you don't want to get sanctioned into destitution? Don't invade Ukraine.


Putin has been acting very desperate, lately


He’s in jeopardy at home and at risk of getting defenestrated himself this time.


Is he? What’s changed? Genuinely curious to learn


The older population who worshiped him are all dying from old age and COVID, and the younger adult generations (18-40 years old range) think he’s a clown. Much like in China, which is why they’re both becoming increasingly more authoritarian. They’re trying to bank on brainwashing the new youth (5+ years old), but there’s not enough of them because no one is having kids anymore. Because why the fuck would you want to bring kids into a shit situation (or in China’s case, they had that one child policy for a long time and now men outnumber women almost *2 to 1 (edit from 4 to 1, I got bad info). Ain’t enough women to have kids to keep the population going. Whoopsiedoodle!)


Attempting to brainwash the younger generation often has the opposite effect. What you'll end up with is few but very loyal followers and the rest of them hating your guts.


Can confirm, went to catholic school. Great education, but no practicing catholics from any graduates I stay in touch with.


I really don't get how we're however many thousand years into this and leadership just doesn't get it. Maybe it's more of a western thing, it's definitely a hugely American thing, but it just seems so fucking universal that it's silly to ignore. Kids like to rebel. When you put the same shit in every classroom, television show, book, game, and whatever else, congratulations! You've made it extremely cool to say that thing is stupid and that you hate it. Now people are going to want to hate that thing you shoved down everyone's throat because they view it as rebellious and interesting. Christ, how many times has this happened in China's history alone? How many cyclical turns of power and rebellion have they seen? How do they still not get it?


> I really don't get how we're however many thousand years into this and leadership just doesn't get it. Leadership isn't really known for progressive thinking, generally.


And they don't read history. They probably should.


You aren't wrong, but just wanted to add a little tidbit. I don't think with young people it's always about being rebellious or bucking the trend. A lot of the time it's about saying no to something they're being indoctrinated into without their consent or even a real understanding of what they're taking involvement with. People grow resentment and hatred for things that are forced on them. Double the hatred if it's things they don't agree with or believe in


People often create mythohistorical visions of past societies or past values. They'll think back to some past revolution and imagine characters, instead of people. They'll imagine heroic, rugged, square jawed patriots standing firmly together. They'll do the same with faith, imagining a church on a hill surrounded by beautiful farmland and strong and happy people, and children laughing and playing. They'll look to the real world, and it's people seem so much less than that. For a scholar, that revelation will make them look back at their mythohistorical view and realize it was flawed. They'll understand that while their faith is a valuable tool in their life, medieval villages still had plenty of drama and drunks and social problems. They'll understand that the revolution was messy and flawed and so were the people who fought in it. But for many, they'll imagine that society actually used to be idyllic, but that we have somehow fallen from grace. They'll say that people are lazy today because the government does too much for them, or that there's social decay because people stopped going to church. They see ordinary people not as ordinary, but somehow sick. Banning femboys becomes like wanting to ban asbestos. Censoring teen literature that mentions homosexuality becomes like wanting to prevent children from smoking cigarettes. They want to 'cure' people, so they can return to the happiness of that imagined mythohistorical past. And to do that, they feel like they need to remove 'corrupting' influence of anything that wasn't a part of that mythohistorical vision. In the end, for a lot of people, it's easier to complain that people today aren't like the good old days than to admit that the good old days weren't like they remember them. In their mythologized history, children were instilled with strong values that made them obedient and industrious. If they could understand that children have never been that way, they'd see that all of society never has been, and wouldn't be trying to 'go back' at all.


Hitler Youth was a very successful endeavor. Trying to emulate that is pretty much Tyranny 101. I just don’t know how successful you can be at that without going full hermit nation like North Korea. It’s damn near impossible to have propaganda saying how you’re the best and the rest of the world is terrible when the internet exists. That’s why China has basically cut off internet access to their citizens unless it’s government controlled. Can’t have people getting too wise now can we? But even then, it’s too late. Pandora’s Box is already open, and the citizens at large know too much. Like in the US, 40 years ago people were almost led to believe that we’re the only free country on Earth and the best at everything. Now we can see that we’re actually at or near the bottom of every single important category (healthcare, infrastructure, poverty, etc) among first world countries. Sure, there’s some “truthers” who will die on the hill that the US is number 1 at everything and saying otherwise is fake news, but the nation as a whole knows better. We aren’t China or Russia by any means, but we’re in desperate need for improvement. Which is why you’re seeing a giant swing of progressiveness, and a lot of the older populations, especially those in power, trying to gerrymander their way to status quo.


> It’s damn near impossible to have propaganda saying how you’re the best and the rest of the world is terrible when the internet exists. Yeah that's the difference this time. It's hard to say everyone is shit and you're the best when you can see for yourself how much BS that is.


In the age of the internet, it's never been easier to spread lies but at the same time, good luck convincing everyone who isn't a gullible moron.


Problem is, there are fucking TONS of gullible morons.


> Hitler Youth was a very successful endeavor. Hitler Youth was different. Inner city German boys go to go on hikes, shoot guns, pal up with war veterans and play war games in general. Being a Putin Boy just does not have that ring to it.


The sons of Putin?


Vlad Lads?


Depends what kind of thinking young people are predisposed to. Even before they tool power, the Nazis always got some of their strongest support from German youth. This was true even during WW II.


40 years is a lot of time. In the 80s the US did have at, or near the top, infrastructure, healthcare, etc. But since then the mantra has become quarterly profit above all else, so there hasn't been investment in the things that support long term success.


Exactly. Not to mention he’s already pissed off the older population by raising the retirement age and cutting pension benefits. He’s bargaining with less and less and with decreasing support.


His veneer has peeled, for sure. It’s the desperation we’ve seen many times in human history. Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and even Kim in NK. The more saber rattling, the more desperate, and the weaker you truly are. This is why the US still maintains the Teddy Roosevelt “Speak softly and carry a big stick” policy. It’s just the smart thing to do. Well, except for Trump, but he was a guy who literally is on record saying he looked up to despots, so he’s going to copy them in thinking it’s what “strong guys” do.


Yup. And the proof of that is the need for military parades and how Trump was the first modern American president to want one. That’s the definition of chest puffing and saber rattling. It’s something the US armed forces really don’t need to do.


The Soviets had to do gargantuan military parades every year to remind the world they where powerful. The US never did because nobody ever doubted them.


Exactly. When you’re top dog there’s really no reason to showboat for your own populace or the world for that matter. I mean hell with the US’ unrivaled defense budget they damn well better be.


I do not understand why you've put Napoleon on that list. While he was certainly some species of tyrant, he won upwards of 90% of the significant battles that he commanded, including ones where he was vastly outnumbered. Fascist strongmen attempt to create a cult of personality based on posturing and bullshit. Napoleon inspired genuine fear in his contemporaries based on his actual results.


China used to maintain the same foreign policy too. Keep quiet, don't make waves, and just focus on getting richer. Then something happened the last like, what, 8 years, and they've just been repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot with one PR blunder after another with their "wolf warrior" diplomacy, trying to act like the US without the US's soft power.


This sounds familiar


The imbalance is not 4:1. It's not even close to that. There is a gender imbalance that leaves tens of millions of men without mates (which sets up is own historical sociological problems), but you can look at any population pyramid (like [this one](https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2020/)) and see that it's a more subtle difference than you're stating. Edit: Your 2:1 ratio is also wrong. The imbalance, as stated below by u/IDonnu4Real, is only 16% more males than females at the peak.


4 to 1? What are you talking about? Recent data shows 1.4 men to 1 women


Men do not outnumber women 4 to 1 in China... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio The ratio doesn't exceed 1.17 in any age group.


Where did you get the men out number women in china 4 to 1? That's quite a ridiculous number :O


He's generally not super popular in Russia. But he's an autocrat mobster who doesn't have to worry too much about elections, unlike democracies. But, he usually can get a quick boost in popularity by doing some military shit, he still needs to be somewhat popular to avoid civil unrest. His military ploys worked in his favor with Crimea and, I think, Georgia. Reminds the old heads of the good old USSR days, when life sucked, but at least Russia was 'powerful'. Now, the military moves aren't getting nationalist support, and the sanctions are fucking up the whole country more and more. I imagine everyday Russians are fed up with this cycle and just want him to stop pointless military brinkmanship so sanctions can end to improve quality of life for everyone. Just my 0.02 rubles




TIL, thanks 😊


Haha thanks for helping my Dostoyevsky comprehension


Donny and Bannon copied his play book. He proclaimed that he would make Russia great again, he hates journalists, he campaigns against the unpatriotic, he aligns himself with the Orthodox church. The older generation seems to like him.


It's the dictator playbook. People already forgot Trump tried pull off a political coup. He was like 5 well placed cronies short of doing it.


That’s what I was thinking, sounds like the sanctions are working


Sanctions are totally crippling for Putin. The money of his oligarchs and himself are all overseas. If he can’t access it, he loses the power that he has. That is why he wanted leniency on the Magnitsky sanctions.


Tough talking us down? What leverage is he using to do so?


Well, from the article, a "complete collapse of US-Russia relations"


Scary stuff. Whatever would we do without Russia?


I think the implications are that a cold war would start up again, but lets be frank, the cold war has already started again. The only way to end a cold war is for both sides to act in good faith, and right now Putin is most certainly not acting in good faith by threatening to invade Ukraine. As far as I'm concerned, Russia here is the one overstepping their bounds, and it is correct that the USA doesn't let them get away with it, even if it means an escalation.


Also, Russia is not the great power that the Soviet Union was. The two great powers of the world are China and the US, THAT'S the new cold war


Russia is a second-tier power nowadays and it drives Putin mad.


The cold war never stopped.


In all honesty Putin, short of the US and Russia going to war, it's not like it could get much worse.


Or the Russian troll farms really get moving spreading more yellow journalism and echoing more opinions disguised as U.S. opinions to get the populace even more riled and angry at each other. ​ Edit: Grammar.


Why wouldn't you do this anyway? There's clearly nobody paying any attention from the US side.


Russia in the 70’s: how do we spread propaganda in the US? We can’t drop leaflets, and attempts to start up a media outlet don’t work. Russia now: hold my vodka *keyboard typing sounds*


Not sure about the media outlet thing, as I see plenty of people in the West forward articles from RT and Radio Sputnik and the like as if they weren't coming straight from the Kremlin.


Yeah but they wouldn't be doing that if it weren't for the Russian keyboard warriors. One leads to the other, RT.com on it's own wouldn't accomplish much.


You're not wrong.


>populous populace*


Thanks, I'll edit that. I'm a horrible with my spelling sometimes.


They can get collapsed-er?


They'll get super duper collapsed


What will the Russians do? Try to sell us Kamchatka for $7 million? That would really show us.


Some rich fly fishing billionaire would swoop Kamchatka up for 7mil no prob.


Heck, I'd buy Kamchatka for 7 mil its natural areas are gorgeous. Russia needs to get a PM who could develop responsible tourism to these areas.


Things can always get worse


Which is pretty much the summary of the entire historical journey of Russia...


Isn't that the official Russian motto?


Well... I assume the word "collapse" to mean, no relations, not talking. Cold war. Not open war. Sort of how when a building collapses it falls down and the ground stops it, it doesnt dig a hole kilometers deep. Love and hate, relations and war the opposite sides to the same coin.


Wouldn’t the attempted takeover of Ukraine already indicate a collapse in relations?


And Russia is needed for what, precisely? Whatever they can do, ASEAN can do better and for cheaper.


Gas station. Germany is dependent on it.


…which is precisely why today’s shutdown of 3 out of 6 German nuclear power plants seems… …kinda odd, if you ask me.


Germans are absolutely moronic for being actively anti nuke. Just being cheap about it (like the rest of the world)


They're not moronic, Gerhard Schröder is making a lot of money as the chairman of Rosneft.


That doesn't explain the voters.


If we, the people, weren't stupid and easily manipulables they wouldn't allow us to vote.


The shutdown was decided over ten years ago. It's written into law. The problem is not to abandon nuclear power production, the problem was our conservative government hindering the shift towards renewables to compensate. We had more than enough time.


Damn bro even gulf states are shifting to renewable faster than some of you non oil having guys




For another comparison, Russia's GDP is between NY's and FL's.


Russia's a mafia state. Westerners who buy Russian companies substantially increase their chances of state-sanctioned shakedowns, and falling out of windows.


Southern California has a bigger GDP than Russia.


It’s about the same as Illinois


No, Germany is not dependent on it, it's just cheaper from Russia. Germany can afford to pay more, they just prefer to pay less.


I mean...track suits are pretty cool.


I wonder which side has more to lose.


Lol Russia is so poor


Florida has a higher gdp….. fuckin FLA!


And had a much greater loss to covid as of right now. They’re behind the US in basically every way




People are concerned about an invasion because there are ~100,000 Russian troops on the border. Whether or not Russia intends to actually invade, that's a pretty real indicator. Not to mention that the last time they wanted a piece of the Ukraine, they pretty much took it and there was nothing we could do to stop them. Sure the sanctions are hurting them, but when the chips fall, they will still be holding the Crimea after the sanctions end. So, I don't know if being concerned about this is "overestimating" Russia. I think they have every ability to take another piece out of the Ukraine if they want to. They probably can't take over the whole country, but I'd say they could manage to carve out Eastern Ukraine and call it a Russian ethnic territory.


Even if Putin gets everything that he wants, he's still executing a 20th century plan. Dude's living the past.


Exactly. Much like his KGB days, he sees his country surrounded by hostiles. The US to the north and east, NATO to the west and China (not necessarily hostile, but things have been shaky since the Sino-Soviet split) to the south


Russian and Ukrainian people. People are always fucked. Here in Russia i kinda feel we deserve the government we have because even if most People want to see Putin gone they are not willing to do anything about it.


This situation fucking sucks man...


Sounds like sanctions are working. Time for more sanctions. Russia never had good relations with the USA. They won't stop doing their fake news fuckery on social media if we dropped sanctions.


Unplug them from the internet.


I blocked Russia in our PA Networks box at work and reduced my company's web traffic by 90% and our revenue by 0%.


It was that drastic of an outcome? That’s insane.


Yes, both my counterpart and I were floored when the rule quickly surpassed much much older legit traffic rules, like days vs months. They are putting Google bot, MSN/Bing bot, and our CDNs cache checks combined to shame. Only now they are just collecting hits in the firewall vs our servers. And yes, it still feels insane and even more so when I happen to swing by that rule set and see the number is still climbing stupid fast.


Sorry can you eli5 this? Like the “traffic blocked” count for blocking Russian ips was crazy high?


Yeah traffic counts/requests. Outside of Yandex nearly all malicious in intent, I have no clue why it took so long to do it.


What is their intent? Like are they launching attacks or is just bots mapping everything they can? Sorry if that’s a stupid question.


In most cases scripted attacks probing for information about the servers and testing exploits. Nothing truly awe inspiring or anything, it just wastes power and time. edited to add: There's nothing wrong with asking a question. If you don't know something, ask, and then you will. :-)




I do the same thing, but with pfsense. I also block china and NK based on their assigned IP ranges. I’m just a small fry running a personal web/etc server but as soon as you have something like that facing the internet, the incoming connection attempts to known ports, etc just explodes.


Palo Alto Networks firewall with subscription for Pan OS updates. I have a lot of options for targeting bad actors, in the case of Russia I went with the option to block a country and count on PA networks to keep the IP block list up to date enough for my needs. If you are interested for the home then this option is probably a bit pricey. If you work for / own a busniess this should be an affordable expense and I would consider some sort of dedicated hardware with a subscription. If you're a hobbyist I might suggest taking some old pc hardware that can support two nics and mess with PFsense or Smoothwall Express (we used this before we "grew up"). This won;t have a block country option but you can google something like Complete Russia CIDR and get a decent enough list to get most of the RU bad actors shut down. I'm not an expert in this specific subject so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I am happy to share what I do know. :-)


This can be implemented with mikrotik rather easily. Add an address list with Russian CIDR then add up/fire/filter rule to drop traffic from the address list.


That would give the Russian a lot more control over it citizens.


Then don't fucking invade. Easy enough.


Russia won't invade Ukraine. They'll just cross the border and say they got lost, like they do with their bombers over or at least damn close to clearly designated airspace a few times a year. RAF scramble to intercept Russian bombers/planes around 10 times a year on average.


It wont even be their troops just russian equipped locals some how devoid of flag patches


There are really only two things coming out of Russia anymore, petro chemicals and unpleasantness. Putin's performance is for his domestic audience because losing control at home (notice all the new domestic crack downs) will be fatal. All the rhetoric about being threatened by NATO and border security is just noise because: 1. No one wants to invade Russia 2. Russia has nothing to offer the world (aside from fossil fuel reserves which won't carry them forward as renewables supply more energy need in the coming years). Until the actual Russian people decide to deal with their internal issues regarding a basically unaccountable and unremovable government don't expect a lot from Russia (I wish them well).




Stirring up foreign trouble to distract from domestic problems is an old story for asshole politicians


Haven’t they already completely collapsed? Where is there cooperation still occurring? Space? Even there it’s not what it once was, for a while after the space shuttle ended American astronauts relied on Russia’s program but I think they all use SpaceX now.


I mean im not an official on the matter, but Russia isn't a reliable space partner much anymore. They're work on the iss lately is causing problems, that plus with their new anti-satelite weapon puts space fairing capabilites in jeopardy for humanity. Weapons that cause debris in space should be destroyed responsibly, while humanity can still get to space at all.


The ISS is reaching the end of its life, and I don't think many people see Russia being part of the next, if there is a next any time soon. I see India and South Korea being partners on the next before Russia.


China and Russia are going to splinter off and do their own thing. My point is that the work Russia has done on the iss has been malfunctioning(i think it was a booster firing randomally that they repaired). I doubt russia would intentionally do something like that. Which, if unintentional, would mean they are slipping space wise imo. You're supposed to do multiple checks each step of every process of these devices. I'm not saying rocket science is easy, just that for a time russia was basically considered the best at this. Now they're having problems keeping parts running for an international effort? Their MO is intentionally messy, like blowing up an out of date satellite as a demonstration no one needed, not small fuck ups on an international scale.


> Space? Lest we forget Russia test-firing an anti-satellite weapon, which caused debris ~~to impact~~ *which will continue to be problematic for* the ISS, endangering the lives of everyone onboard. This was just over a month ago. https://www.space.com/russia-anti-satellite-missile-test-first-of-its-kind EDIT: I had thought the cloud of debris had actually impacted the station - turns out, upon reading my own link, it didn't, but may in the future.


Sounds like there needs to be some sanctions launched.


You pretty much have to now.


Call his bluff, Russia is already regretting this and Ukraine play is failing, this shows russia isn’t fully committed to invasion of Ukraine yet and they just created NATO’s justification of existence for the next decade after years of debate if NATO is even needed anymore. Former Eastern bloc countries are more and more into joining NATO and spending way more on defense. Putin’s bluff failed.


What’s next? Putin recalling his pet senators and congressmen on the 4th of July? Oh, wait…


I still think it's weird that that didn't become a bigger story than it did. You've got half the country accusing the President of being a Russian asset, and then suddenly a bunch of congressmen who are pretty close to the President decide to spend July 4th in Moscow, and it's a news story for like 2 days.


Yeah it is crazy. The Republican senator from my state was part of the group that went over there. And every time I've mentioned that little meeting to anyone, they are completely unaware of the event.


So the right wing propaganda machine worked as intended.


Please let that happen! We could just not let them back in. Goodbye Ron fucking Johnson.


It already did.


Can Putin provide a list of which countries are the property of Russia? Thanks.


[Probably all these](https://www.worldatlas.com/r/w768/upload/bc/48/f7/shutterstock-290167274.jpg)


Probably Finland too. The one that got away.


If Putin touches Finland I will personally attack Putin… with more rants on Reddit!


Brave man, I will join you in this fight. He will stand no chance once he reads our reddit rants


What I don’t like is this false narrative where Russia is the victim in all this. Does Russia ever admit to being the cause of most of its problems? They say NATO is pushing east towards Russia, but those are countries formerly under Russia’s imperial rule voluntarily signing up in a defensive pact. They’re signing up because Russia’s rule was generally seen as a bad thing. I’ve yet to see a good explanation of how Russia was actually victimized. I know the 90s were very hard on the country, but the country has seemed incapable of critical reflection. Considering what Russia’s done over the last 15 years I’m surprised the West hasn’t had a more hardline stance towards them.


Also, gee, why would Ukraine want to be in NATO? It’s not like Russia say… fucking invaded and annexed part of their country or anything.


There hasn't even been any talk of NATO expansion since 2008 when Georgia was invaded. This fuckery with Ukraine started when they pivoted towards the EU in 2014, which is an economic bloc, not a military one. Russia wants de facto control over all aspects of their neighbors foreign policy not just the stuff related to Russia's security. They basically want to resurrect the USSR without the official union, which is bullshit


Putin\* wants to ressurect the USSR. I think he may have a recurring fever dream where he likens himself to the old 'russian greats' like Stalin and Lenin. If being a hated dictator is what he wants, then that's surely what he's receiving now. Except the entire world is just looking at another Russian despot in a failed nation due to greed and mismanagement. I wonder when the Russian people will decide they've had enough with incapable leaders that can barely hold a nation together.


Russian joke: Putin is asleep one night when he awakes suddenly to find the ghost of Stalin hovering over his bed. "Vladimir," the ghost says, "You must execute all the democrats, and paint the Kremlin purple." "Why purple?" asks Putin. "Ah," says the ghost, "I knew there'd be no questions about the first part.


I wouldn’t even say that Ukraine ‘pivoted towards’ the EU, that’s that old ‘spheres of influence’, ‘The Great Game’, type thinking. Ukraine never wanted fewer connections to Russia, they just wanted to start adding more connections to the rest of the world. That would be a good thing for Russia. That would even potentially help Russia connect more, too. Everybody just pivot towards everybody and we’ll all be better off.


no it is *I* who is breaking up with you


Just a reminder that Russia has already invaded Ukraine and annexed the Eastern part including the strategic region of Crimea. This is just a warning against taking additional Ukrainian territory. Here's some background why this is happening at all: * Ukraine exports about 17.3 million tonnes of wheat (#5 in the world). For comparison, Russia is #1 with 33m and US is #2 with 27.3m. By adding Ukraine, Russia dramatically increases its wheat export by about 50% which would be the dominant exporter by far. This means they can also manipulate wheat prices considering their market share. * Crimea region is basically like Florida only without the hurricanes or the poverty. It's where a lot of wealthy Russians go on vacation or even retirement. * The closest Russian naval base is on the East coast at [Novorossiysk](https://cdni.rbth.com/rbthmedia/images/all/2016/11/29/bases_navy_1.jpg). By gaining Crimea, they've recaptured the Soviet-era Naval base at Sevastopol which can directly threaten other Ukrainian ports, particularly Odessa. It also moves the Russian fleet a lot closer to the key Turkish Straits which is the only exit to the Atlantic Ocean from the Black sea and it's a major shipping lane for ocean exports of Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, and Georgia (plus Northern Turkey). * The overall plan is to bring the old Republics back under the Russian banner. His party's name is United Russia which is what they wanted in the first place. He's placating those Kremlin insiders who helped him in the past and are keeping him in power. * Wheat is nice but having a more Western naval base is nicer and you can better secure both if you move the border Westward. For instance, move it to Dnieper river which would cut Ukraine in half and gain two out of the three major wheat-producing regions (and top GDP producers) while threatening the port of Odessa and Mykolaiv. * War helps the economy grow and keeps the population loyal and right now their economy isn't great which is causing internal agitation. * Due to lack of any consequences of his invasion of Georgia and Eastern Ukraine, there's no reason for him to stop doing anything. If the US wanted to help then they'd send military, not money or missiles, to Ukraine. If NATO wanted to help, they'd expedite Ukraine's membership and start moving people and setting up bases to halt the invasion that's already been going on for almost seven years. Russia is just posturing and playing with its gas exports to Europe. [It's basically this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-UZ4DvYBg) However, due to lack of any actions of the above, it looks like those who want to stop Russia are employing the [four stage strategy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak). We're at about stage 3 right now.


Regular everyday Russians don’t want a war, this all about Putin trying to deflect from his domestic failures in governing.


Regular everyday most people don't want a war. The only people that want war are lunatics and war profiteers.


Always. Always call a “strong man’s” bluff. Russia needs America. They sell oil here among other things. Do it, Putin.


Isn’t Russia collapsing their relations with the whole fucking world by invading Ukraine? It’s like shooting yourself in the leg and asking the guy next to you why he shot you.


So...if you invade Ukraine our relationship collapses. If I sanction you for invading Ukraine...our relationship collapses. If I say nothing while you invade Ukraine, but I help NATO help Ukraine as it is in the treaty...our relationship...collapses. There are easier ways to ask for a divorce.


So what? The United States doesn’t need Russia. Russia needs the United States. The United States barely trades with Russia, has no use for it’s raw materials, and already has a collapsing relationship with Russia thanks to their constant aggression against Europe. On the other hand, the United States can remove Russia’s ability to obtain international finance or access it’s own foreign bank accounts. Meaning that Putin is simply trying to slam his fists on the table and make demands that the US, Europe, or Ukraine will not, and should not agree to.


Well, isn’t that special. I love how autocrats react when sanctions start working. Putin, you’re a holdover from the Cold War. Resign now and let the next generation take over. You’re done, and stop with the Botox and fillers. No one can take you seriously looking like that!


The only right way to respond is to do the opposite of what Putin wants. Meaning: US absolutely needs to launch more sanctions


Fuck Putin. He created this scenario on purpose to try to create leverage, but everyone is calling his bluff. He’s demonstrated precisely why NATO exists, and why former Soviet states (which were independent nations once prior to Russia enslaving then after WWII) should be allowed into NATO. Putin is on a mission to rebuild the Soviet Union.


Oh no! Anyway... Also: Stop. Buying. Russian. Oil. Only thing holding the country together economically.


And gas. EU reliance on Russian gas is a huge problem.


Freeze assets coming in from Russia, including money. Go after money launderers aggressively. I'm sure that Trump can find other ways to finance himself.


Modern Russia is an idiot parody of what a real human society looks like. Thanks to Putin I literally could not think any less of Russia.


“I want peace. You want peace.” Putin looks worried and tired. Time to retire to his troll farm.


His puppet is no longer in power. Fuck Putin


This rhetoric that dictators have is just retarded. *You don't want to let me invade Ukraine and wreak fucking havoc on eastern Europe? Oh, well, I'm going to fucking stop talking to you.* All dictators and shit regimes have this same policy, like Iran and China and North Korea. Go ahead and isolate yourself and Russia even more, no one is going to blink.


Political narcissism.


Oh no, Russia will stop being nice and pointing nukes at us and spying, and hacking and assassinating people, and arming our enemies and doing Dr Evil level social media chaos campaigns. What good things will they stop doing for us?


This is obviously posturing. Putin wants Biden and US to make the first move. So he's poised to sign something that would break diplomatic ties. At the end though, its Russia who's going to make the first move. *We're still in Cold War Ladies and Gentlemen.* **That Berlin Wall collapse ain't shit! The Media lied to the World!**


Oh no, what will we do without access to Russia’s… potatoes I guess?


Putin is so weird looking. He looks like he was drawn by Napoleon Dynamite.


Oh no!! Our fruitful and vast relationship with Russia!! It’s broken!!


Russia has such a tiny economy that they are irrelevant.... it is like Spain threatening the US. https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp They are at #12, and the west can make it MUCH lower.