By - DioriteLover
Phase 2b trials are pretty small still and more focused on safety then efficacy. I looked up the arms and randomization ratios for some more breakdown.
233 total subjects. 79 subjects were in the 25mg arm, 75 in the 10mg and 79 in the 1mg arm (placebo group as the dose is so low).
Of the 79 subjects in the 25mg arm 23 subjects were in remission three weeks after treatment, compared to 6 subjects to in the placebo group.
In the 25mg group 20 subjects were still in remission after three months.
So these numbers show significance and the number of TEAE (Treatment emergent adverse events, or "things that happen to you after treatment") was also not significant to show a safety concern.
So now they want to do s phase 3 study - which would likely be on several thousand subjects.
So while this news is promising, the title is misleading. A phase 3 trial is the real deal one. Many drugs make it this far only to fall flat in phase 3 trials. Either due to lack of effect or safety issues which arise. Plus a trial like this will likely have a lot of publicity so any little AEs that are highly visible will get a ton of attention. (Like the Covid Vaccine people with blood clots). All it would take is one person to go postal and kill someone, and this would make a lot of headlines.
I still like the news as it's the first step in the good direction, there is just a lot of paths it can take still.
Edit: It was also pointed ou to me by u/mmmm_steak below that this is not peer reviewed yet.
Data also not peer reviewed yet
Less than a third in the 25mg arm in remission seems quite low. So for most people, it won't help them?
I'd suggest you're looking at this is the wrong way.
This group is comprised of people who have NOT responded to multiple treatments methods in the past. Who really don't have better options available to try.
And then, after a SINGLE dose of something, a HUGE proportion of previously untreatable people are in REMISSION. How many people are on antidepressants for years with little or no help? This was ONE dose.
If this is helping the unhelpable, then imagine how much it might help more 'mild' cases?
This is huge news!
I read all these success stories for years about how psilocybin can cure depression. I used a very small amount and it worsened my tinnitus and gave me panic attacks. Still dealing with it after a month. Trouble sleeping. Maybe less depressed and more anxious now? I don't know. It was a waste of time and I wish I hadn't done it, though.
I didn't see any mention of it in the article, but previously I'd seen most of these studies mention they were done with a therapist there for your trip and it seemed like that was a key part of the experience
Precisely. Psychedelics are not always inherently therapeutic, they can be extremely chaotic and don't help everyone (or even affect an individual in a consistent way.) IMO, the sheer power of the drug makes it likely that some recreational users will get therapeutic benefit just from having the right mindset, setting, and body chemistry (genetics?), but it's frequently a neutral or even negative trip when done without preparation/guidance/caution. Even when all those things are perfect, the drug can still take you for a wild ride, too.
Little (if any) of the data+studies we'll see over the coming years will directly refer to any recreational psych usage, it's all in a therapy/professional context, where it's both safe(r) and guided.
I mean the scientist knew the potential back in the 50’s and 60’s.
An English or American scientist administered 2500 doses of LSD on depressed people in Norway during the early 60's. It looked very promising but then it was banned, probably an automatic ban since we like to import politics from the US and especially the UK.
It was speculated in an article that it was banned because the hippies "co-opted" the whole thing and made it political poison to even mention.
My doctor is fairly young but she's also conservative/traditional, so there doesn't appear to be any real change with the people giving you access to these drugs. At least not in my country.
Even Kennedy was speaking about how important the research into LSD was at the time, and how he hoped heavy handed legislation wouldn't prevent the research being continued. Guess that didn't work out
Just like climate change and environmentalism, drugs need a new branding to appeal to different political groups to non left wing people.
It's a fucking travesty that education isn't enough, even among doctors.
MDMA was made illegal because anything that makes you feel this good cannot possibly be legal.
The alchohol industry in the UK lobbied hard to get MDMA the most severe classifications as surveys showed that people who go out taking MDMA don't consume any alchohol, mostly water compared to people who take other drugs like cocaine who buy and consume a lot of alchohol. Professor David Nutt has talked about it, that's the guy who was the chief drug adviser to the Blair/Brown goverment and got fired for talking about how drug classification should be reformed and based an actual science and not moral panic.
In the same way that pharmaceutical companies lobbied to reclassify psilocybin as Class A drug in 2005 for the UK. Same as cocaine and heroin.
Funnily enough, the shitrag Daily Mail ran a story today for fucking investors in these companies as psilocybin is going to be used to treat depression- illegal to pick for free but legal if you pay the pharma middleman.
it was made illegal to target certain demographs in America, then imported by other countries.
Not MDMA, Marijuana and LSD and Shrooms sure. But MDMA was a Reagan Era scheduling. And the story of how I got scheduled is real fuck up, basically even those a judge agreed (in multiple court cases) the MDMA should be schedule 3 the DEA said, "Oops we only have power to schedule not unschedule drugs" and the FDA can't unschedule without the research being done.
The FDA is still scheduling psychedelics today that they didn't get the first time. Dr. Shulgin put together two books, PIHKAL and TIHKAL, that contains many phenethylamines and tryptamines that he synthesized and tried with a small group of people. It can be argued that these are all covered by the federal analog act, but that law just really created a gray zone, legally.
It's ridiculous that in today's society we are still banning drugs without doing any research into their dangers. Furthermore, they're getting put on schedule 1, making it so they're nearly impossible to do research with.
+1 for Shulgin =) Rest in peace a legend
But doesn't MDMA has like a pretty harsh come down where it has the potential to make people depressed especially if they abuse the drug?
Yes if you’re taking a rave dose. I would imagine Rx doses treating depression are much different.
Def this. If you throw back 10-20% of your anti depressants in one go the comedown is probably gonna be tough too.
No, it's the same dosage. MDMA comedowns are highly overrated. I feel much worse after a night of heavy drinking. The difference is that frequent use of MDMA will make you feel worse. That's why you need to take a break of at least several months between rolls/treatments. If you do that you will feel fine the day after, perhaps even better than usual if you had a good experience.
You’re absolutely right about the comedowns. The brutal comedowns that people talk about are from people taking too much MDMA at once and/or taking it too often.
Therapeutic doses are probably a bit lower than a lot of peoples recreational doses, but that’s just because lots of people take more than they really should.
Anything that spikes dopamine will do that. Checking Reddit and Facebook and Instagram are no different. Huberman discussed it a few episodes back, this episode changed how I think about things a lot.
That and it can kill you. MDMA overdoses happen. Also, seriously messes with serotonin. Should probably be used at most every 6 months or depression can set in. Thats the main issue, people are uninformed on how to use safely. Unfortunately MDMA is a once in awhile thing and most people have no self control.
It’s actually relatively difficult to overdose on MDMA by itself. The adulterants it’s typically cut with pose significantly more risk, in isolation though the lethal dose of MDMA is several times over the standard recreational dose. People can and do take well upwards of half a gram in a sitting and are fine. (Note: do not do this.)
With MDMA the real risks are dehydration, or, ironically, in some cases over hydration because people hear about the dehydration risk and overcompensate.
Most MDMA overdoses are from the drug being cut with something else or adulterated. I’m sure if when we drank alcohol we had no clue whether it was absinthe or wine there would be a lot more overdoses too.
Yeah after the first time I took it (at a Calvin Harris concert) I didn’t want to go to a concert again without it. Seemed a bit addicting because it’s *so* good
Sure, but a lot of dangerous things that can kill you are legal. Like alcohol, or [horseriding](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BP367JdHro). So this on its own is not a good argument.
What a world we live in where people get their information from the news, politicians, and Facebook, rather than listen to doctors that have spent decades in school
Drug legislation is made by those same forces which you decry: politicians and public opinion. It has very little, if anything, to do with science.
Any individual doctor is about as infallible as any individual physicist. And since I *am* an individual physicist, this instills me with limited confidence.
Like anyone else, doctors have at their immediate disposal only the knowledge they frequently use for their job. A good doctor will be aware of this and look shit up regularly. But they are not automatically immune to “that’s how we’ve always done it” and other biases.
Okay - you're right. I work in a field where I have interacted with thousands of doctors within the years.
BUT Doctors are also humans. Early on in yhe opioid crisis, who do you think was prescribing opioids like candy to people? You can argue the pharma company bribed them to do it, but they still did it - and are doctors. They like money just like all any of us, and have massive medical debt too. Just because you had the smarts to be a doctor doesn't make you a good person.
My point isn't don't trust doctors - it's trust your doctor, AND yourself. If you think a Doctor is shifty, or don't like them - then go to a different one.
Absolutely. I would mention that that were many doctors, however, who were not bribed, but convinced of the safety/efficacy of opioids based on medical publications. Infuriatingly, those were published/written by the medical marketing company owned by one of the Sackler brothers. 😡
“Dopesick” is one hell of a binge (pun-intended), especially as a former OxyContin addict myself. If anyone out there is unaware of what the Sackler family has done to the US population, start watching it now (streaming on FX/Hulu).
This is a complex issue. Doctors were forced to consider pain level as the 6th vital sign. Studies about this were done but were faulty as they were funded by the manufacturers of opioids. And we wonder why even some healthcare workers are afraid of the vaccine.
I suspect that the large amount of Iraq / Afghanistan war veterans from around the world who need help with depression and ptsd will fast track the acceptance of hallucinogens as an acceptable treatment. Especially with the increasing legalization of cannabis in the US.
This is a really interesting way to put it.
Granted, the average American probably is more likely to respond to advertising and marketing logic than to actual rational discussion on the facts, that is true.
But don't you think we should be coming at this from the education side of things so that we don't have to reduce everything to a car commercial level of complexity in order to communicate it to voters?
>But don't you think we should be coming at this from the education side of things so that we don't have to reduce everything to a car commercial level of complexity in order to communicate it to voters?
In an ideal world people would make rational decision purely based on logic. However since we have emotions and the vast majority of people doesn't have the time or will to research for hours about a certain topic they will believe whatever fits their bias at best. E.g. this why I believe people living in rural areas are against the minimum wage eventhough they'd be the ones most benefiting from it, but they're against it purely because it's part of the opposite sides agenda.
Then the government needs to start hiring more marketing and advertising professionals. They seem to have a superior understanding of how to concisely get something across to a certain audience.
Whatever happened to PSAs anyway?
I donno if it's accepted practice. I imagine most doctors would lose their licenses without proper approval.
I lived it, IMHO the reason I remember freaking conservatives out was, the trip was described as a “religious experience” and well the fundamentalist christians were angry because their religious dogma told them it was imposable! So one was wrong and it was NOT their religion,the “War on Drugs” was their solution!
Also, politically the drugs culture threatened many things being questioned to day: capitalism, work, justice, fairness, community and society!
Did you just blame hippies for Nixon being extraordinarily terrible?
The guy who started AA credits his sobriety to micro dosing lsd, not the group
Anecdotally we’ve known for tens of thousands of years
That’s incredible. So glad treatment alternatives are getting daylight
Are you tripping all day every day—2-3g seems more than a microdose? Do you feel profoundly better after each trip or do you feel like it’s a constant tone of not anxiety?
It depends if they're eating them wet or dry, 2g wet is about 0.2g dry.
After 2 weeks of that amount every day it would be far from a trip. Tolerance comes way up after a matter of days
Not OP but I may answer some questions. Yes, 2-3 grams is way more than microdose. Thats a trip if you take it first time. I took a gram of liberty caps after years of not having it and it blew my mind. Yet, our bodies build up resistance, and I mean it, instantly. You can have a nice sesh, say after 3-6 grams, that's fine. You liked it. You want another one next day. Eat double of what you had a day before. And guess what? Nothing happens. Your body isn't having it. Microdosing is like having a lick of a lollipop instead eating it all at once. If you want to trip, once in 3 weeks is shortest you can do it, you want to shorten time, you need to up your doses but the break shorter than two weeks is pointless.
Was 2-3 grams a typo? That’s a full blown dose. But after the first day you would have a tolerance… never heard of that kind of dosing, seems wasteful.
Yeah, after a couple days at that kind of dose, your tolerance is going to be at almost 100%. Proper dosing would be a couple hundred mg 4 or 5 days a week, then a few days off to reset your tolerance.
Is that 2-3g over the course of a day or once every day? How does tolerance affect daily dosing?
It's never really occurred to me until microdosing has become a thing that people take psychedelics every day... I'm skeptical but interested, the science is so exciting!!!
Il note ive been taking psychedelics in some capacity for years. I recieve great spirituality from it.
I hope your road to wellness is a bright and sunny one.
A large portion of the population are so thoroughly brainwashed by fear-mongering propaganda that it won't matter how many thousands of studies show the positive effects psychedelics have on mental health. There's probably a few in this thread, there typically are, who will read these things and just go "lol you think hippie drugz are going to heal you". These same people could take SSRIs or anti-anxiety meds and not think anything of it.
Yeah, horrifying. Here take some Valium™ to calm your nerves.
I've got to stop reading those articles, it's just making me depressed knowing I'll never get to reap all those benefits because my country isn't going to legalise psilocybin in this century.
Grow your own and find a good psychologist who is prepared to help you.
I think the psychologist is key. I tried it for depression on my own and didn't notice any difference at all. Maybe I didn't take enough, though. I'm thinking about trying it again and tripping balls to see if it works.
As far as I know the dosage for therapeutic psilocybin use is quite low, and used in conjunction with therapy. So far lower than the tripping balls stage.
Saying that, tripping balls is great fun.
Edit: So I'm actually wrong on this one, I may have been confusing myself with therapeutic MDMA and thought the same rules would apply here.
But yeah, used in conjunction with therapy still applies for long term effectiveness.
Tripping balls definitely is fun. Last time I tripped I cried for a really long time while staring at a knot in a tree and I felt really one with everything for a few weeks after.
Crying is honestly my favorite part of mushrooms. Mushrooms untie a knot inside and the flood gates open up for me to purge. Rarely do I feel more euphoric than a good mushy cry.
I was just telling myself yesterday that I need a good mushroom cry
Last time I did mushrooms there was nothing to sort out in my head no underlying problems. It was pretty great and relieving.
Same here. Still cried at fact haha
I tripped last night. Took a one of the best showers I've had in a long time, made some funny faces in the mirror, then got absolutely overwhelmed when I tried to do the dishes to get ready for dinner and had to lay down, now I'm getting ready for work lmaoo
The last few times coming off it was really crazy and hard. Ive stayed away since then
Hard in what way?
Not able to sleep. Circular negative thoughts.
Ive always explained it to ppl as “as i have gotten older, my brain is more rigid and doesnt take to tripping as well as it once did”
Its funny. Two of my buddies, both legit adults that smoke way less weed than myself, like to randomly pop a few caps. Like, we’re going to Islanders game… eat some caps. Its affects on me are way too potent for me to do that
It’s good you observe that and make the adjustment. Sometimes hard to do if friends are going the other route. Though the threat of seemingly interminable mental hell will help keep you on track!
Am pretty sure that's not correct. The studies I read were large 'mystical grade' doses. The higher the dose, the stronger the positive effect. Positive effect was found whether the experience was pleasant or unpleasant.
Anyone reading this considering making themselves trip balls, please do so safely :) comfortable safe setting, preferably with someone present who isn't going to freak out and call an ambulance if you get agitated, but will freak out and call an ambulance if you say, slip and hurt yourself.
*edit to add* don't feel under any pressure to do a high dose. I personally prefer to hover somewhere between 'an interesting experience' and 'tripping balls', if you're starting out you absolutely should start with low doses. Walk before you run
You’re right. I did a big research paper on it two years ago in school. Generally, they got between 1 and 3 fairly strong doses over a short period of time (week or two). Then, at ~6 months follow-up with surveys etc that revealed very positive lasting effects.
I think a percentage of people probably need it a couple of times a year to maintain. But still, absolutely ludicrous that research with psilocybin was banned for so long. Imagine if we had 50+ years of this research already completed…
It's Class A where I am (UK), from the moment I pick a mushroom. As much harm to user & society as crack & heroin according to drug scheduling. Like you say, imagine what amazing results we'd have gotten from all that research.
It sucks because anecdotally I get great relief from some of my symptoms that lasts many weeks.
I looked into it and found [this](https://newatlas.com/johns-hopkins-psilocybin-study-finds-optimum-beneficial-dosage/18981/).
You're correct in that higher dosages people will have a more spiritually significant experience, however this found that "a third of those participating in the study showed signs of psychological struggle." That's at 30mg (roughly 3g) which is a decently high dose but nothing heroic or 'mystical.' 20mg (2g) is a pretty moderate dose that seems to be almost as positive without the negatives.
I had a bad experience with acid when I was young, so I went conservative on the psilocybin dose. I know they are different chemicals, but I had no desire to lose control like I did with the acid.
Very much the same. Like you I'm more cautious when it comes to dosage!
Yeah I’ve had mixed experiences (maybe 5 or 6 total) with psilocybin. I a couple of them had a positive effect for months afterwards. Buuuuuut the couple of “bad” trips really fucked with my head lol.
Also, I struggle with addiction. I had no issues staying sober after all of these trips (“bad trips” included). The feeling did wear-off for me each time, though. If it got approved for therapeutic uses, I’d probably do it every couple of months and gradually increase my time between doses.
I like to microdose then workout while listening to music
Nope! Hero dose under controlled conditions.
Actually the therapeutic dose is usually on the higher end of what is recommended recreationally. I remember reading a report saying that the majority of people in these studies find parts of the experience challenging/terrifying because they are absolutely tripping balls.
It's beneficial to take a "mega" dose and then go to microdosing
There's an issue with people approaching it as if the tool works independent of mindset.
In order to truly be effective you do need to have a trained therapist and to have guidance with someone who can help navigate a person properly.
Once aspect of the experience is that the drug creates a mind state where new thought patterns can be established and that this is what happened with the most successful percentage of the test subjects.
This test is successful but I would have people expect greater alleviation with chronic depression when combined with therapy leading up too, during and after a session.
It's also important to note that this is a just a single dosing and that even with the most common traditional anti depression medications on the market there's a two week build up needed to reach it's effective plateau.
*For any medication or treatment to be that effective after a single dose is VERY PROMISING.* I'm excited for the future as I do believe (IF properly employed) this class of drugs can be positively transformative for our society - they should have NEVER been outlawed.
This. It's not that hard as long as you're careful to keep everything sterile. You can buy the spores pretty cheap online
The hard part is affording a psychologist. Much less a good one.
Got my start here 3 months ago. Moved onto making my own grain spawn, agar work, martha tent, etc. It's actually a really fun hobby and I now have jars and jars of dried mushies.
I feel the same way (had to put down _How to Change Your Mind_) but it's because I'll never get up the courage to take a dose.
It doesn't have to be legalized for it to be used as medical/psychological treatment
I agree it can suck knowing you'll never enjoy the benefits you work towards and I feel like I'm in the same boat but that being said societies grow great when people grow trees whose shade they'll never enjoy. It makes me happy that others might not be able to suffer how others have before them
I’ve been microdosing mushrooms for the past year. Yes, I bought them illegally from a friend of a friend. I’m over thirty and have tried almost every depression medicine since the age of 17. I went from having major depressive episodes once or twice a month to a rare down day. I no longer have to worry about when the next one will hit. I no longer lay in bed for days, worrying my family and friends. Since the age of 17, I convinced myself that I would eventually die by suicide. It is life changing to not feel that way anymore. All this from 100 milligrams once every two weeks. They need to legalize this ASAP.
PLEASE share with me the process. I've been severely depressed since mid-2017 and tried 3 different antidepressants all to no effect. I'm about to hop off my current one from next week as the numbed emotions side effect feels shitty, and I'm looking to try shrooms with my friend maybe next month. It's such a horrible feeling, I'm not super suicidal but it's like I'm waiting to die instead of living life. Days fly by and I do nothing, time means nothing and it's cost me so many friendships due to being antisocial the past 4 years. Sorry for the rant, just it's nice to hear other people's accounts. I just want to live life, have friends and achieve something meaningful in life.
How much did you take at a time? Any particular type of shroom? How often? Were you on antidepressants when you took shrooms or off them? Any details are appreciated :)
/r/unclebens is an excellent starting point for novices. Got my first real successful flush using that tek.
Philly Golden Teacher on YouTube has a great collection of videos that cover everything you need to know to get started on growing your own as well
If you can't find a suitable therapist, there's always the self help route. I have 2 books to suggest, and both come in audiobook format. Michael Pollan's How to change your mind as well as James Fadiman's Psychedelic explorers guide cover methodologies used in shaman and modern medical settings and discuss full and micro-dosing.
I was severely depressed at the beginning of this year. I wasn’t eating, I didn’t sleep without meds for two months, and I could not feel happiness at all no matter how hard I tried.
Out of desperation I learned how to grow mushrooms and began microdosing about twice a week. Now a year later I still have hard days but I have new hobbies, I’m healthy, I work out, I found new ways to be good to myself, and I even sent myself into a identity crisis and rebuilt who I want to be from scratch which was scary but fun and I love myself for it.
Are you able to share how you grew your own?
How do you even consume this? Do you eat it? Do you scrape certain parts off?
Honestly just reading Reddit lol. The first time I bought sterile rye grain bags with injection ports and p. Cubensis spore syringes (all legal here). The grains are then colonized After some time and then I mixed with a manure and coir substrate, and put into a “mono tub”. Just start reading in your spare time and take notes. The more preparation you do the more likely you’ll have good results. It’s a fun (albeit sometimes frustrating) hobby!
Philly Golden Teacher is awesome ^^^
See I would love to grow my own, but my state is one of the few that it is illegal to get spores in the mail, unlike most other states. :(
I’ve had some great experiences with microdosing previously, but I’d rather grow my own than to buy it.
What is your mindset going into it? I haven’t shroomed since 2014 when I was in a good mind state but I’ve been depressed since 2018 unfortunately . I’ve been hearing a lot about micro dosing but kinda scared . Any advice?
Micro doesn't need a state of mind, you never get remotely high, just a free mood boost.
Do you micro dose using the cap and stems?
Buy a scale from your local head shop that measures to the milligram. They’re not expensive. Use a coffee grinder and weigh it out. Trying to eyeball dried mushrooms into micro doses is not an accurate method and can easily lead to accidental larger doses.
There is no psilocybin content difference between cap and stem, that's a myth.
Usually people blend a bunch of mushrooms and put them in caps, that way there is an even amount of everything anyway.
Yeah, the whole thing. I dry, grind, and capsulate them.
Is for eating and not anything else, right?
You could always boof it.
Magic mushrooms have cured my depression
It's nice to think that in the near future it's possible we might see mushrooms being prescribed by psychiatrists (or is it psychologists?) along side other antidepressants like Wellbutrin or Prozac.
I’ve used truffles on multiple occasions, most of them reacreatively but always with the asterisk that it was also something more than that.
I found that it can “rewire” your brain. If you place yourself in a comfortable environment, take the trip with people you can trust, and do an activity which you enjoy - such as taking a walk in the forest or playing a game, it can be life-changing. Your mind opens up to new perspectives, and profound realisations can have a lasting effect.
Be mindful of the dose, take it easy and make tea out of the fungi instead of eating them (protip). But you don’t have to be afraid.
On one such trips I was walking with a friend through the woods. It was raining, dark, and cold. But we had warm coats on and soft blankets around us. I mentioned how despite the shit weather situation, I was actually relatively comfortable. My friend answered “yeah man. It’s just good like this. I don’t need to know how it could be any different.”
The peace in that conversation stuck with me for months. Whenever I found myself worrying about things that could be, I would return to this thought. I wholeheartedly wish for anyone to have such an experience.
My best trip was wandering around the woods during the winter, not too cold, but it was snowing, those huge fluffy ones that are many smaller flakes stuck together. So quiet, and with this big slowly-falling flakes. We had a fire we were hanging around but would take these wanders off. So special
I thought the point is to have people take guided doses. In other words have a session with a specialist while taking them.
Correct, and a recreational dose is likely relatively high compared to a therapeutic dose would be. For instance a gelcap filled with mushroom powder won't necessarily make you trip, but still get you the mood-stabilizing and migraine-relieving effects.
Therapeutic doses are all over the map. There is the John Hopkins study ([popsci breakdown](https://newatlas.com/johns-hopkins-psilocybin-study-finds-optimum-beneficial-dosage/18981/)) concluded that 20mg/70kg of *psilocybin* was the ideal dose. That’s about 25 mg for a 90kg/200lb individual. Which is going to be roughly equivalent to 2g.
In terms of recreational doses, that’s a pretty standard amount to take if you don’t want to shoot the moon.
The study also got good results with 30mg/70kg but some reported stress.
Anecdotally, I started taking mushrooms to help me with my own mental health during the spring of 2020. I didn’t consult a doctor, didn’t do a ton of reading on the subject, I just tried to listen to my body and learn about myself.
It wasn’t really until I worked up to hero dose levels that things started clicking for me. Did I have fun? You bet, a lot of it was just me having fun, trying to reconnect with substances that were a big part of my youth.
Just to be clear, I don’t necessarily recommend anyone do what I did. It changed me, and not necessarily for the better depending on who you ask. But I know me, and it wasn’t until I found what I was looking for “over there” that I was able to reintegrate fully.
I dunno, all anecdotal, all I’m trying to say is that these substances have seriously profound effects at higher levels. Can’t wait to see what the next few years have in store.
I don't get it. How does 20mg end up being 2g? In the study it says 25mg was the ideal dose. There are 1000mg in a gram.
20 mgs of psilocybin is 2g of the actual mushrooms. or thereabouts.
Oh! Thank you for clarifying.
Hey, I made this same mistake in a different thread. It’s not 25 mg of dried shrooms. It’s 25 mg of pure psilocybin. So, it’s a lot closer to 2.5 g dried mushroom trip.
20mg of the psilocybin chemical itself, which is very roughly 1% of the dry weight of the mushrooms. It’s mostly in the caps, and highly variable because there’s like a hundred species and they’ll have different concentrations depending on how they’re cultivated, when they’re harvested, and so on.
Which is one reason why it would be nice to have it as a metered pharmaceutical instead of in its natural form, with the other being that they taste like literal shit.
That is the point but people are intimidated by therapy even without a psychedelic so it's understandable they'd be intimidated to do it with one.
I don’t know how serious this comment is, but I highly recommend seeking treatment if you think you might be depressed but you’re “comfortable with the subtle disgruntlement”.
I had this feeling for probably years, I basically felt like ‘well I’m already down so I don’t have to worry about something knocking me down since I’m already here.’ After years of this mindset I actually got some treatment and I realize how much of a trap that way of thinking is - it is actually so much better to not have to live every day on the bottom.
Hope you’re doing ok. Treatment isn’t as overwhelming/scary as you think it might be, don’t let depression trap your mind like that.
MDMA too, which has been demolishing PTSD in clinical trials
I pray to god this is true. Im just tired and fucking exhausted from it. And now I gotta worry about the burn pits and stuff. I’d like some peace in my mind.
There’s a great episode of the show New Amsterdam which covers this subject. It’s the final episode of season 1 (S1E22) if you’re interested. I can highly recommend the series.
Would I need to see the rest of the season to understand the episode? I might check it out.
Not at all. The bit on the patient with PTSD is a separate storyline of about 15 mins spread throughout the episode. It’s got great production value as well!
I’ll look into it tomorrow! And hey, maybe I’ll be finding a new show to enjoy. Been trying to find one honestly.
Well, that or antidepressants that use psilocybin as a base, removing the psychedelic effects, which has already been shown to have promise (some people don't want the trip part of it, just the brain chemistry goodness)
Honestly, when I trip I go off my meds for 1-2 days before and don't take them the day of. I find that they inhibit the trip a lot.
I may just have a tolerance, but I don't really start tripping tripping until I smoke some pot.
I have ptsd from extended periods of deployments. I didn't or don't have much help besides therapist at VA, and I tried different meds, propanalol gets me through with prazozin at night, but stopped all the SSRIs. I sourced some 4acodmt and asked my wife to monitor me and I took a dose that I thought was way over the line. I asked the mushroom spirit or whatever to help me out with my ptsd problem, and went into it open, with confidence, and willingness. I saw all of my memories of war laid out like cubicles in an office and I was looking down, like a blueprint. I could open each 'strong memory event', look at it without emotion, see my own actions from 3rd person, and the mushroom spirits (or whatever) let me see myself as separate from 'me', and I realized I was a normal person and my actions were okay, or I had nothing to do with the horrible parts that were making me upset about them. I was able to close the memories up at the end, with a new label of "intense but okay" instead of memories labeled "anxiety, horror, death". ymmv but I'm alive and starting a business, farming, making music, instead of drinking myself to death in pain.
Edit/PS: I used McKenna's method of a heroic dose + blindfold + lay down + try not to talk. I believe this is the way to allow the hallucinations to emerge in a way to 'be inside it'.
That’s an amazing experience, I’m glad that you found something to help you!
Australia wont let me use weed, but let me put 14 tablets a day into me to cover pain and depression, the old generation are killing everyone with old fashioned thinking.
Well, Canberra is a bit more enlightened.
They're so ridiculously easy to grow - /r/unclebens
In high school a kid put some mushrooms in a shoebox and left it in the back of the art classroom where the other cardboard stuff was. All year he would check in on it a few times a week and grab some or grow more lmao. Zero work, just a dark damp box.
Thank you, I really wanted to know and you shared a solution. Thank you very very much.
I remember taking the stuff back in high school over at my friend's house with a few other friends. The shrooms started kicking in really hard right as my friend's mom was arriving back at the house, we all saw her car pulling up. My friends told me to hide because I was freaking out, so I hid in my friend's closet. Pretty soon I started melting into the floor, and that only made me freak out worse. I ended up just running out of there and bolting down the street, where I ran into a neighbor who was unpacking groceries from her trunk. I told her I was dying and needed her to call the police. She acted pretty worried until I explained that I had taken mushrooms, then she calm down and retreated into her house. The police and ambulance both showed up after about 20 minutes, they told me I could either go to the hospital or go to jail, I chose the hospital. They put me in some random hospital room at Kaiser and there was some security guard standing in the open door staring at me for about an hour while I sat in silence high as a kite. My freak out had officially ended, and I was feeling one with the universe. I told the security guard "I think it is time for me to leave." They called my mother who drove to the hospital and picked me up. My mother was not happy.
Yep doing them in terrible environments will almost always lead to bad experiences. However if you do them right they are amazing
Nice. Too bad my state would never legalize it in a million years.
when millenials and gen-zs get old enough things may change.
Millennials are 40. Exactly what is old enough or do we just have to outlive the boomers?
Voting America is about 75% white and has a median age of 53. Millennials are 40% white and the oldest are reaching 40. Millennials still have a good 10 or 20 years before they reach the age of voting Boomers, and while they do outnumber them, they STILL do not show up in sufficient numbers at the voting box to have as severe an affect on our politics.
Get to the voting booth. Vote. Decisions are made by those that show up.
Boomers are still in most positions of power
We need to vote them out or just plain kick them out. They’ve outlived their usefulness and their relevance.
Need to build other channels of power, because they have a death grip on electoral power and will use every dirty trick to maintain it.
Have you heard the good word about the French Revolution?
And when they'll die their millennial kids will have copied their parents horrible stance in life most likely
With diminished returns, there are always diminished returns and there are always more of us than them.
Nope. That is not the plan.
I’m a millennial and I’m 29… You’re putting out the very upper limit.
Outlive boomers, or get cracking on undermining them. They will give up nothing peacefully. Last boomer left will probably launch the nukes just to spite us.
If they live to be 100, I'll be 70. Basically my whole life ruled by the most ass-backwards generation of spoiled children.
Down with boomers!!!!
you do realize that boomers and the hippies from the 60s are the same thing; boomers flipped once they saw how much money they could take. what’s preventing the same thing from happening again?
The money lol
Yea probably that. What money XD. Millenials are one the the worst off generations next to the gen z.
It's not that difficult to grow them yourself. It's 100% legal to buy mushroom spores online in the United States. Most of the other materials you'll need you can get at a hardware store and garden store. It's truly amazing to grow them yourself and experience the magic that YOU grew.
They dont have to be legalized for treatments to be available
Psilocybin allowed me to realize that I am the light in the darkness. Poetic, yes, but it really helped me tackle my problems and see them in a different light; as above, so below. There is so much greater than us than there is lesser than us. I never thought my life could experience such joy and resolution. Finding my peace has allowed me to pursue my meaning of knowledge and beauty. Simple yet ever-expanding and limitless. I draw now. I create my own music from the heartstrings of this cosmos. I read books now. I hike and explore this grand world we’ve found ourselves in. I take more risks to improve my life and better it each day. All I can say now is that this is amazing! Whatever this is :)
Made me happy as hell when I ate some stems &caps.
fuck I'd be 100% down to see if this would work
Been microdosing shrooms three days a week for this reason. I can’t 100% conclude it works for depression yet, but I definitely feel a difference in my attitude overall.
The study mentioned shows that the positive benefits are most seen in a macrodose. That being said, more research should be done specifically for microdosing and this study doesn’t rule it out.
now we gotta wait another year or 2 or 10 or 50, for them to legalise it...
That's because the spores condition your mind in their favor. Then you want to grow more of the spores so you can eat more shrooms, so you do but that just feeds into the spores plans to multiply though. I know this because I'm a mushroom rebelling against my masters.
Thank you for your service
Good luck fungi
this sounds like an old star trek episode
I was very depressed because of existential thoughts I had a few years back. They worked wonders for me personally and I've never been that low again.
> Overall, 12 patients reported treatment-emergent serious adverse events, five of whom were in the 25-milligram group and six in the 10-milligram group; these included suicidal behavior and self-injury. Just one patient in the 1-milligram group experienced a serious adverse event.
Probably why the stock dipped 12% after results were reported
Said every single shroomer I’ve encountered from the dawn of time. Shame that progress in mental health is so impeded by uptight lawmakers.
Too bad SSRI meds block it from working =( Would need to spend a good 2 months slowly weaning off that first but prolly not the best idea. Cant function really without it.
Not necessarily. This psychedelic biotech company’s initial trial from a few months ago says otherwise: https://mindmed.co/news/press-release/mindmed-and-liechti-lab-provide-results-from-their-psilocybin-rd-collaboration/
*Psychedelics & SSRIs: Psilocybin was found to be safe to administer together with an antidepressant. Daily pretreatment with escitalopram for two weeks prior to psilocybin administration, reduced anxiety and blood pressure increases associated with psilocybin but did not reduce the acute psychedelic experience in healthy volunteers.*
It’s one small study, but it hints that perhaps people on ssri medications will be able to reap the benefits of psychedelic medicine alongside their current treatment.
Tried 1g, perfectly sober. 2g, tingles on my arms for like 30mins and thats it. 3.5g ground to powder on an empty stomach - tingles for like an hour nothin else. 4 other people got high as hell off the same batch with 0.5g and 1g. Im a small person too.
It also seems pretty well known in the shroom community that SSRIs very much so dampen or entirely block the effects. People have been experimenting with this for a long time by now.
I wouldn’t say well know. I’d say anecdotally probable. But there is a ton of debate about it on both sides. Clinical trials definitely beat out anecdotal evidence regardless. Not saying it’s a slam dunk, but it definitely should inspire hope.
What one? I’ve been on lexapro for a long long time and I can still get high on shrooms
Yeah that's actually going to be a major obstacle to treating severe depression with psilocybin, since those worst cases will already be on SSRIs. Seems like it might be way more effective, which makes it sort of tragic that you basically have to plan for a major life event with support and therapy just to wean off your meds, just to take psilocybin which may or may not help you.
I'm definitely what you would call a psychonaut and articles like this never surprise me. IME though ayahuasca feels more healing but large doses of mushrooms can definitely take you to the same kind of places.
...29.1% effectiveness in the 25 mg group. Promising, but feels like newspaper trying to sell newspaper titles here
That’s in treatment resistant depression, people who have failed to respond to other treatments.
A university near me received 7.5 million anonymous donation in order to test psilocybin in veterans with PTSD. I'm really interested to see the results of that one. I have never taken anything like it but I've heard so many good stories and the research coming out is SO promising.
Shrooms made me feel one with myself and the universe, taught me for a moment how to accept and move on and what really matters. To see the stars woven together in DNA like strands as they created audio waves to the music, transforming.
It did more in two trips than any of my meds can or will ever do for my depression. It’s a godsend.
Micro dosing + quitting social media... Imagine the potential.
Everyone who's ever done psychedelics:
ANYONE WHO DOES SHROOMS WHIle DEPRESSED MAKE SURE TO HAVE a GUIDE AS I ABUSED THEM AND GOT ME EVEN MORE DEPRESSED ALSO HPPD
While i 100% agree with this and have hppd myself, microdosing is safe and is not necessary abusable.