Conservative group says Germany could become the world’s first industrialised country running on 100% renewable energy supply as early as 2030 and simultaneously reduce citizens’ expenses on transport, heating and power use

Conservative group says Germany could become the world’s first industrialised country running on 100% renewable energy supply as early as 2030 and simultaneously reduce citizens’ expenses on transport, heating and power use


Im German and I don't believe this will happen soon.


I'm German and I don't believe this will happen within the next 60 years


Wait. You guys believe it will happen?


Germany will be one of the last to convert out of the western european countries. Right now it's emissions are 0.75GT (Giga Tonne CO2e) which puts it in the top 10 of most polluting countries in the world. France is at 0.33GT and the UK at 0.37GT. And literally right now they're building a pipeline with Russia to provide decades of natural gas to "lower emissions". Meanwhile the Netherlands are getting off natural gas because it's a fossil fuel.All the while my appartment in Germany is still heated with oil and there is zero incentive to change this.


It jumped up when they came off nuclear didn’t it?


Yeah I read this like “what lol”. Live in the uk and even with our big renewable push we are nowhere near this.


We have to be careful here because we are close to a general election in Germany and political actors promise a lot of wild and crazy stuff to grab for votes and once the election is over they have collective amnesia and do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it isn't possible but it would be devilishly difficult to organize and require a lot on investment in the energy grid AND you need to get citizens on board so that they switch their systems to renewables. Nevertheless, I hope they can manage if only to remove the lame excuse of some that running a major economy without fossil fuels "just isn't practicable".


Also it's important to note that the "Klimaunion", the group this article is speaking of, consists of members of the CDU (Merkel's governing conservative party), but not a single one of their proposals made it into the party's platform. So, yeah, it's great that those people exist within the CDU as well (and I have no reason to doubt the integrity of these individuals). But right now, they are not in any way shaping the actual policy of the CDU - going public with this is very likely a campaign maneuver, nothing else.


Yeah, they had over a decade to make the shift to renewables happen. Instead they actively hindered progress.


It's almost as if they're threatened by the Greens


They know they might lose big time to the Green Party and Young voters want to hold them accountable for their blatant lobby controlled anti green politics so they make it look like it’s not that big of a problem and they have a plan


They won't lose. I told a friend of mine who was getting hyped about the green party in march to remember what happened to Martin Schulz in 2017 as he was getting hyped. And now for weeks you can't turn on the media without witnessing some backlash towards the green party, some for sure justified, but we know that Russia is meddling in our election aswell and guess which party they like more.


I think a bigger problem ist, that the people who would vote for the green party tend to be younger. the 40+ and definetly the 50+ people don't want to vote for them to the extent, that would be necessary, but I bet a lot more of them are actually going to vote, while the younger generation might say they would but won't actually vote at all. That being said, up until this/last year I never thought I would actually consider voting green, yet here we are. If only because I don't see any other party that actually deserves a vote.


Not comparable to Martin Schulz. The green party was in fact a strong competition before Covid hit because of FFF. Then demonstrations were forbidden and the conservatives were able to get sympathy points for crisis managment. A year later now that a lot of scandals are known the greens are coming back to where they were before covid.


The green party was equal on points with the conservative party until the Bearbock book crisis and how much power the Conservative media still has. CDU 28%, die Grüne 18%, SPD 17%. No one cares about the scandals because apparently a book is more important.


No one reports about the scandals... It's super crazy to see the coverage of the mask scandal compared with the book scandal...


True, the Greens do have a better shot, yet in the current political climate, them winning would still be one of the biggest underdog upsets in the nations history. They would need a much more popular candidate and a much better campaigning than they ever had. And having seen them during the last few elections, they'll likely shoot themselves in the foot by making some extremely devisive statements for attention. But if they manage to get enough votes to be second strongest party by a lot, that would be enough to at least politically shake Germany. It might even allow them to win next time. Best realistic case scenario is that they somehow become sympathetic enough to somehow get the protest votes that are usually reserved for the far right currently. That would actually show every other party where to go, as those votes kinda shape politics right now, because those votes are seen as the only ones that are actually up for grabs. (which isnt true...the non-voters hold the power, but mobilising them is hard, so some just don't even really try)


Yep, Baerbock's book thing gives me "Hillary's Emails" vibes.


Baerbock's being pelted with media attacks - and the sad thing is that it's working.


It is infuriating. And it's always some bullshit, just enough for whataboutism. Yes, she declared her bonus late. But theres miles of difference between receiving a bonus *from your own party and employer* and being bought with ten times the money by private corporations who seek to influence you. Now all people remember is vaguely that she took 10.000 € too. She's just like the other corrupt politicians from the CDU. It is nauseating how well this shit works.


I love how you perfectly descibe the political climate in Germany: "She's just like the other corrupt politicians from the CDU." What bothers me the most is, some people seem to think that her "being just as corrupt" is a reason to vote for CDU. You know CDU politicians are corrupt, you know they f'ed up the last decades. But voting for a corrupt Green party is somehow worse? What makes people think that?


Every fucking day there is a new allegation to her plagiarism of some shit orvhesteres by the cdu just like giuliani claiming they got biden on his balls. Looking nearer to the case: it's not. It never was. The cdu is also telling folks that if they vote green, shit will become heavily expensive. After 16 years of bullshit politics they got the nerves to project their misbehaving on the greens. Jesus. This is like being taken hostage by the lobby because a lot of people swallow it and vote against their own interest. Simply because: they have been running it ever since. Why change !?


It is so painful to see people going crazy over plagiarism in a dumb book, even though the scandals by the CDU during the Corona pandemic are so much worse. Like I give a shit, if some passages are copied. Those CDU people tried to profit off of the worst health crisis of my life. fuck those guys.


If only the Green Party would actually use the CDU for their election campaign. The CDU has huge areas where the Greens could attack, climate etc.. or the recent corona affairs. But for some reasons they just dont bother at all. And are only fighting back on those "Hillary Clinton Emails" Type of allegations


The AfD actually. Though the main goal of those Russian media campaigns is just general strife and Chaos to weaken democratic states, not some preference of parties


Yeah. 2 of the major parties in this election have historically actively worked to slow down the fight against climate change.


The leading one of those being the party this "conservative group" (that I never heard of before) lives within. The party whose candidate for chancellor routinely emphasizes how climate change policy has to be reconciled with economic concerns, and how we need to communicate to the younger generations that the speed of anti climate change measures they call for is not going to happen.


While also being responsible for cutting upwards of 80k jobs in renewable energies... and then whining about how we can't just get rid of the less than 20k jobs tied to coal because "just think of the jobs omg" The reason you haven't heard about this conservative group is cause it was founded for the upcoming election... cause they are worried young people might be tired of shamelessly corrupt greedy geriatrics fucking up our planet


That pipeline coming in from Russia isn't for any kind of renewable energy nor is it just going to be used until 2030. What a bunch of bullshit rhetoric completely undermined by actual current energy policy.


This is exactly what I was thinking. People who think an $11+ billion pipeline will only be used for less than 8 years is delusional.


there is also the line about deregulation to draw investors, which is just your usual conservative talking point given a green paint job.


Yepp, another German here, I don't believe a word they say. The CDU makes ridulous promises about saving the climate while orchestrating a smear capaign against the popular green party. They are afraid of losing the election.


They had 16 years and all that happened was that we pushed getting out of coal back more and more with more and more money being funneled into an industry that was/is only 20.000 jobs strong. And even getting out of it is heavily reliant on coal and atom energy we then would buy from neighboring countries instead. Not to mention all the other scandals that would easily have made politicians 10 years ago resign. Now they just eat up the bad press and act like they don't care while wasting millions of taxpayer money. And the more you dig, the more you find. From putting money into their own pockets from infrastructure-deals to mask-deals *dealing with faulty masks no less*. And it doesn't stop.


What about Norway? Norway gets 98% of its electricity from hydroelectric plants.


I think our biggest issue might be Svalbard am, they still have to use coal there. Other than that it should be easy to get to 100%


Also Norway relies a lot on its unique geography to make this happen. If it comes to finding a good proof of concept it's probably better to look at a place with more generally shared starting conditions.


It's going to be phased out the next few years.


Just kick people out of that small irrelevant island, duh I’m kidding, but actually don’t like 2,000 people live there? And what jobs are up there that allow people to live there?


Costa Rica is [already ](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/costa-rica-electricity-renewable-energy-300-days-2017-record-wind-hydro-solar-water-a8069111.html) at 98%




Quebec is at 99.8% and as been for some time. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few places on earth get their electricity mostly from renewable sources. The issue is even tho pretty much all produced electricity is renewable energy consumption is about 40% electricity so the other 60% is not clean like oil is 39% of consumption so that needs to be improved.


The thing is. Norway produces a metric shit ton of petrolium.


About 3 times more than an imperial shit tonne


yup, they're like a teetotaler drug dealer, in a way


But still export tons of oil lol to keep increasing their sovereign wealth fund.


As a german, thats not gonna happen.


Lmao that's what I said. For all the comments on German efficiency, the bureaucracy wheel grinds slowly. If anything, they'll pass a law in 2030 saying the country must be 100% run on renewables... In 2060.


I mean Germany has already passed a law to close all coal plants by 2038. I believe 2030 to be an unrealistic goal but there is already plans set in place to achieve 100% renewable energy by 2050.


It's not unrealistic. But it would require serious effort and determination to overcome obstacles, some known, some as yet not fully known. That ain't gonna happen.


I hope people would be skeptical with 2030 being so soon


Isn’t Germany also building a gas pipeline from between it and Russia ? How does that align with this??


Well, as a Norwegian... We're at like 90% already (please don't look at that mountain of oil barrels behind the curtain, it doesn't exist) and I think we'll get there by 2040.


It doesn’t count when you only sell the oil to other countries, so they do the polluting, silly 😌


Also, international plane and cargo-ship traffic isn't anyone's responsibility, really... Besides, jet- and bunker-fuel is nothing but distilled unicorn farts anyway, so it's perfectly harmless.


Germany has over fifteen times the population in less land area. The vast majority (~98%) of Norway’s electricity is hydropower. In a large, dense country like Germany at some point you run out of rivers to dam. Germany’s hydropower potential is considered already near totally exploited, with little room for expansion.


Yeah, the political will to dam up more of Norway's rivers/waterfalls etc is very small. But upgrading the existing facilities is bound to happen. And offshore windpower will probably be a huge industry eventually. Norway and Scotland have the best offshore wind potential in Europe I think.


Gee its a real shame that none of their neighboring countries have invested in nuclear power


Chad France


Norway never built any fossil fuel power plants in the first place. The entire initial electrification drive was hydropower


Whenever I see 2030 I’m like, “Oh well that’s another 20 years away.”


But its only 9 :( damnnnn time flies.




One look at electricitymap and you know that's bullshit. https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/DE


That’s a cool website! Thanks for sharing.


Thanks for clarifying the title. I mean I guess Germany could become 100% renewable by 2030 however they would have to increase their renewables multiple times to get to that point. We will see. Until then, based on the info on their energy distribution it seems unlikely.


Multiple times increase would literally not help. Today, Germanys wind turbines hit output of less than two percent of nameplate, there was so little wind. Titanic amounts of storage is what is required, and there are not even any plans to build it.


that website is amazing.


I'm German and i don't believe this timeline. Further downsides here: a lot of natural Habitats for wildlife are going to be destroyed for putting up These "Wind mills" aaaaaand last but not least the worldwide highest energy prices to be also paid by those who already suffer from increasing rent costs. Our French neighbors pay half the amount we pay. You basically will spend ALL your hard earned money on rent, food and energy.


It is strange that they build windmills for "the environment" to provide clean energy, but they knock down forests to do so. Case in point, some of my family lives in a tiny village. They are already surrounded by windmills, but they want to knock a whole forest down that the villagers care about to build more windmills. Also none of these windmills seem to make any of the electricity cheaper in the village. So they see no advantage at all. But somehow the villagers are the bad guys who "hate the environment".


This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://reneweconomy.com.au/conservative-group-says-germany-could-reach-100-renewables-by-2030-at-low-cost/) reduced by 61%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The conservative climate group KlimaUnion, which is made up of party members of the governing / alliance, has a position paper in which the members argue that Germany could become the world's first industrialised country running on 100-percent renewable energy supply as early as 2030 and simultaneously reduce citizens' expenses on transport, heating and power use. > In the paper, KlimaUnion argues that Germany could save up to 63 billion euros in energy imports per year if it manages to achieve a complete transition to renewable energy, which could be turned into a "Growth booster" in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. > Group member Wiebke Winter said the position paper should be seen as an "Argumentation aid" for the conservative / alliance's election manifesto that offers "Concrete proposals" on starting to make Germany climate neutral already during the next legislative period until 2025. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/od0t7u/conservative_group_says_germany_could_become_the/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~586088 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **energy**^#1 **climate**^#2 **conservative**^#3 **Germany**^#4 **group**^#5


As a German: Is this some bad out-of-season April's fools joke? Also KlimaUnion is a remarkably biased source. That's basically like the catholic church denying pedophilia in the catholic church.


They opened a new coal power station last summer. I don’t believe a word of it either.


this "conservative group" consists CDU/CSU party members, which are the same parties that heavily subsidized coal-burning power plants, blocked advances of the renewable sector, annihilating around 80000 possible jobs in the solar industry alone, and halted any push to get rid of fossil fuels for years. as a german, i'm baffled that this statement is coming from them. but well, elections are near, and they have proven for years that they are the wrong choice if you seriously want to get to 100% renewable energy supply. i don't trust them.


> annihilating around 80000 possible jobs in the solar industry alone "LOOK WE SAVED COAL MINING JOBS!" Some estimates put the lost jobs in the solar sector around 300.000.


As a fellow German, I can only agree with every point you mentioned. Seeing how they tremendously lost a lot of voters in some smaller elections and being continuously criticized for their lack of actions to save the environment, and harming the environment further with their actions motivated by lobbyist-money, it is in fact very plausible that they make a promise they definitely not gonna fulfill just to pleas some voters. The CDU/CSU and the SPD did some horrible work as the leading parties and never once fulfilled one of their major promises to help the environment. So for every German, it should be pretty much clear they only say that because of the upcoming elections and they would never fulfill what was written in there. ​ Such Politicians should not be easily trusted!!!


The think is the voters don’t want change. and than we have a big number on unpolitical People here in Germany who don’t even vote. But I don’t think the Green Party would be so good remember in the Past the reigned together with the SPD under Schröders and together with the CDU / CSU at a Große Koalition


Should be top fucking response, unbelievable. Also since when is any conservative group front runner in climate politics if what they saw was true, green should be able to promise renewable Germany the day after the election and be taken just as serious.


I would trust a 5 year old kid more than them. And I mean this. And the kid would do a much better job too


Sounds awesome, however politicians say anything during election times. The green party in Sweden where I live have become something of a joke. I really hope Germany's will become something good


The green party in Canada has basically fallen apart over Israel. They are at a size where foreign policy shouldn't matter.


Can you expand on this?


Tldr Is that leader of Green Party is a black Jew, issued statement for both sides to end conflict. They don’t hold many seats in Parliament and one of those elected jumped ship to another party claiming solidarity with Palestine only to then immediately recant their statement. Party isn’t happy with how the leader handled the conflict/fallout and are trying to oust her.


The whole thing is especially dumb considering that the Green Party has always insisted that its MPs can hold whatever views they want as long as they don't conflict with the party's environmental platform. But now that they actually have multiple MPs, they've backtracked on that policy.


> one of those elected jumped ship to another party claiming solidarity with Palestine only to then immediately recant their statement She joined the LPC which is even more pro-Israel than Anamie Paul.


*america enters the chat crying*


They had some very questionable people in their ranks: https://www.bnaibrith.ca/former_green_party_candidate_makes_holocaust_denial_video/


I personally feel like we're doing US elections right now. Everyone tries to throw shit at eachother, no content. And well, that shit sells for many people.


Edit in the middle Some background about klimaunion (CDU conservative party). It was started by Heinrich Stössenreuther a masterful campaigner. He initiated the 1st german bike referendum in berlin and helped organize dozens of other referendums around germany. he wasnt affiliated with any party at that time so everyone assumed he was a green at heart. A few months ago he declared that he entered the CDU which was honestly a big shock for most of his followers because the CDU is the furthest away from being environmetally conscious. ---(Edit; last sentence wasnt very good, sry, here's a revision. 'CDU is not very environmentally conscious yet one of the biggest parties in BRD, so initiating change towards greener positions in the CDU could foster faster changes towards a less shitty future.' is that acceptable?) Since then he started the klimaunion and gathered other like minded conservatives, they worked on that program which was announced recently. It remains to be seen if his proposals will be accepted by the big honchos of the party. Right now it doesnt look like it, but that could change in the coming weeks until the election. He really is a can do person, and his move towards the conservatives is either genius strategic or just crazy, but one thing is sure he sees that we will be fucked if politics wont do drastic measures and he fights for it while others just talk


>A few months ago he declared that he entered the CDU which was honestly a big shock for most of his followers because the CDU is the furthest away from being environmetally conscious. To be fair the AFD is way worse, but i guess this goes without saying.


Isn't Norway at like 90% hydro already?


If you want to make progress on renewable energy and the environment, I would suggest not joining conservative anything


FYI: There are elections this September. Don't trust anything or anyone.


I live here and don't believe that one bit.


You guys are really pessimistic about the plausibility of this. Look at it this way, your politicians are seriously discussing expanding the country’s effort to move towards renewables. Do you have any idea how good that is? In my country, Turkey, do you know what we discuss every day? It is a circus, some ex-mafia exposes government corruption and shit. Climate change is not even a point of discussion for parties. As your voters demand action, you will elect the right people to do the job. If you start now, you can really be somewhere in 10 years. You are a rich country, put your money in the right place and get it done. Don’t succumb to pessimism.


Total bullshit. There are aereas in Eastern Germany where households are transitioning towards gas based heating. That's not renewable.


New Zealand has more chance of running on 100% renewable as their electrical grid is already 80% renewable. Compared to Germany's 49%.


Quitting nuclear for coal doesn't help


How much of France’s nuclear power is Germany still using? I thought I read they were opening up coal plants back up because they couldn’t support the base load. This was only a few years ago??


A shame that the rest of their party dont care about that and try to block everything


For some reason I didn't see what came after "Reduce citizens", I was like dayum, they're hell bent on being 100% renewable it seems.


Well if you wanna get rid of pesticides and fertilizer you gotta find another way give the plants their nutrients.


Peeee-Pullll!!! The energy is made from People!


Germany is a poor place to recommend this.


Conservative Germans support renewable energy?


Did you mean "politicians lie during election years" ?


It's a major election year and the people who conducted the study are part of the CDU. The Greens, despite their recent fuckups are still a huge competitor and stand to gain a lot this election. Does anyone with half a brain actually believe this?


NB those fuckups were manufactured bad press over basically nothing. - Baerbock received an undeclared bonus of 10.000 € from her own party and that makes her somehow as corrupt as the MPs who receive 100.000 € from private corporations and lobbyists. - Baerbock was imprecise in her CV about whether she studied politics and law or if it was an major in politics with a minor in law, and now people get the impression she was dishonest and getting her job under false pretenses. - she wrote a manifesto and didn't declare sources and people treat it like it was a scientific docorate thesis because hey, this regularly works to make politicians resign Sad how well this works.


Im from germany and i dont see and feel any of that


Why 100% renewable when cheap and safe nuclear power exists though? We're going backwards.




Facts. Put the money into developing even safer even better nuclear energy.


I have a very strong feeling that the huge coal industry in Germany will manage to stop this happening.


Lol let's say they actually mean it, which is ridiculous of course but let's. I wonder, there are already contracts in place for the end of the coal industry. Can you just break them?


The state could make it illegal to raze whole villages and towns for ignite. Why are they even allowed to do this in the first place?


The electricity they charge here is quite expensive still, like 0.32c/Kwh


0.07¢ in the Pacific NW because of all the hydro power.




Calm down, Jeremy


¢.067 here in PA because of natural gas. ... I'd rather pay the extra ¢0.003. :/


that’s awesome


I'm assuming that value is with transfers+tax, but its still insanely high and about 3x of what I pay in finland total


Gonna be 0.40c/kWh by 2025 and probably 0.45c/kWh by 2030. Someone has to pay the hundreds of billions to compensate energy companies for the closure of nuclear and coal plants and subsidise wind, solar, biomass, carbon sequestration, build new gas plants, gas storage and pipelines.


Meanwhile my local utility company recently raised electricity rates because "people are using more renewable energy, and consuming less energy in general", which they say is leading to a budget shortfall.


Mine raised water because the massive Mylan engineering branch is closing down. Loooooottta high paying, high-skill jobs just vanished from the area.


Can't be German conservatives, they are currently doing everything they can to prevent any expansion of renewable energy production.


That's what they're *doing*. What they're *saying* is an entirely different matter, though. Especially with elections around the corner.


it is, the Klimaunion


German here. The country might not be entirely a sh*thole, but I don't believe a word of this.




To date, this really hasn't happened. The shift to renewable power has meant higher electricity costs and ironically higher coal consumption and emissions in Germany.


Consumers in Germany pay the highest electricity bills in the world. https://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-prices-in-selected-countries/ It truly sucks.


Just in time to save the planet. Wonderful


Man, education sure seems like a good investment


“Reducing citizens cost? Lol F that” -USA


lol we're not even fucking close. Norway got us beat easily


They’ve just announced the new number #1 country...Americans have lost there shit up in the americas


We already have the highest energy prices so I‘m mad when this doesn‘t achieve anything. I mean we are paying other countries to use our energy and the people have to pay the price.


Will have to stop digging and burning coal first.


Very optimistic for them to assume there'll be a 2030


I just read a comment so it could be fake, but CO2 will reach 1000ppm by 2100. That is a high enough level to give someone nausea


*laughs in 5 year plan*


Ok this is great and all, but has anyone thought of the poor oil companies just struggling to stay in business? What about them?? (/s for the extremely dense)


I like this.. its getting tiresome living in NA where all businesses and corps want to do is gouge people for everything they have, increase prices and rob society because greed. it'd be nice to live in a society where progression and efficiency changes to living took utmost priority over robbery and fraud.


Where there’s a will, there’s a way.


Fantastic. Australia could become the world's first industrialised country to completely ignore renewable energy as early as now.


Time to turn off those russian pipelines bois!


What’s their pop count again?


Can we have your conservatives and you take ours?


Total bs. My prediction is, that around 2030 we will run on 100% imported energy, produced by countries that simply didn't give a fuck about renewable energy.


Yeah only that's too fucking late


Who... Who says that? I'm german


bahahaha, gemany can't do shit at all. and even when, it will a 100% not be "cheaper" for citizen.


Iceland isn't an industrialized country now?


Half your electricity (not even energy consumtion ffs) come from fucking coal because y'all closed down all the nuclear. And then you have the clusterfuck that is NS2 from Russia as well, all talk from these clowns.


wondering if this also extends to german factories in africa and asia


I thought Germans loved gas.


Sehe ich nicht passieren.


Think you’ll find it will be Scotland, or is..


I am german and this is 100% bs.


Wasn't there just a post the other day about how German mining companies are bulldozing small towns in order to build coal mines?


Didn't they deactivate most nuclear power plants and started up the 'ol coal power plants? That don't seem very green to me


Imagine how much more quickly they could decarbonize had they not shut down their nuclear power plants.


Germany buys lots of hydroelectric from Italy, who also buys cheap nuclear from France. Italy will drain the reservoir to make hydro in the daytime, and use nuclear to pump the water back up at night.


As a german I say : Hahaha good joke. You dont know about the politics here.


Uh… I live in Germany and very little power comes from green energy. Good luck with your fairy tales


Im German and I believe this is a lie. Conservative means progressive in slow motion. This alone proves this headline is a well placed hoax. One German State actually makes a law for that but includes that there will be no legal means to sue the state in case of failing. It's just yet another plan. Like the dozens of ambitous plans we had for climate protection, fibre cables, school systems etc etc etc... BER Airport, Stuttgart 21. We fail like we always do.


Should’ve gone nuclear. Or I guess Germany can just keep buying Frances energy. lol


Living in Germany, I feel like most of the times i go to work so im not at home using electricity, paying that bill always makes me feel like i only go to work to pay the electricity bill... Even if we are going 100% renewable it wont do jack sh*t for climate change, at this point i see that as an extremly expensive way to pat our backs. Might really start to build that Northern European Enclosure Dam instead, seems to be the safer bet.


They still won't be able to reduce the tax rates on the middle class that pays for the huge amount of social welfare spending they have saddled themselves with and thus encourage original white germans to have more babies to prevent their extinction and replacement by the year 2050....


And here we are with the most expensive energy costs in the world. Im from germany.


While here in California, power companies are lobbying to make residential rooftop solar illegal.


Got a link for that? First I’ve heard of this.


Haven't heard that exact claim, but there are issues with rapidly adding more grid connected solar doing net metering, here is an article that covers both sides of the issue from Australia: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-11/electricity-distributors-warn-excess-solar-could-damage-grid/10365622 TLDR, the grid in many areas isn't setup to handle the flood of rooftop solar installs feeding power back into the grid. Most new solar installs are relying on that net metering to offset the cost, so while no one is likely to stop you from installing solar panels for personal use, net metering could be restricted.




Good time to invest in residential rooftop nuclear instead.


Well, in Mexico our president is trying to stop any new investment in renewable energy just to protect the electricity state monopoly (that produces most of the energy from fossil fuels) and the oil state monopoly (Pemex).


Ah, Pemex. The company that set the Gulf of Mexico on fire.


Jesus christ, in CALI? Hope that shits fails haaard...


California is a lobbyist's playground, all sorts of pro business shit gets passed here. Just look at how the [soda industry basically blackmailed the state into banning soda taxes](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heart-health/california-bows-beverage-industry-blocks-soda-taxes-n887796) or the new gig economy ballot measure which was utter bullshit Edit: removed amp


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as a german i can just laugh at this xD no way our government will manage to accomplish that


Laschet verhindern!


I might be stupid but doesn't Scotland already produce more renewable electricity than it uses in total or am I missing something


It was about industrialised countries.


is scotland not industrialised or am i misunderstanding?


What the fuck, they closed their nuclear plants, and they're burning fossils like crazy, and buying power outside. If that the same accounting creativity than "getting all your shit manufactured in china, pretend you're not a polluter" ?


>CDU/CSU lmao not gonna happen. They have their pockets lined by coal lobbyists. Its a really nice try at garnering to young voters for the big election year though


If that were true they wouldn't be spending so much money on Lignite mining.


The problem with lignite mining is precisely that you don't have to spend a lot of money on it. You just shovel the soil away and put it on a conveyor belt that runs directly into a furnace. For that reason it's still somewhat competitive, even without direct subsidies.


what’s ligmite?


brown coal


Aka brown coal. It's 20% water by weight, and one of the least energy dense hydrocarbons out there. It's also one of the only domestic hydrocarbon sources in Germany.


Ligmite balls


Québec is essentially running on 100% renewables, and has been for a while. The only non-renewable energy on the grid is a gas powerplant used to supplement the grid if a winter night is spectacularly cold and thus heating draws a lot, as you don’t want to take chances and have people freeze. As far as I know, it hasn’t been used since 2018. The rest are a few windfarms, and a fuckton of dams.


germany doesnt have the landscape to produce a lot of water energy. Basically it's already maxed out with what we already have


This is the big issue though with a lot of renewable energy hype. The really efficient ones, hydro and geothermal, rely massively on innate advantages to one particular geography. I am not familiar with Germany’s specific hydro or geothermal geographic capacity, but it makes me skeptical of claims to be able to reach this, especially with the recent Russian gas pipe project. Places like Quebec and Iceland essentially got extremely lucky with the natural geography to allow builds like this to put them so far ahead of the curve. Particularly when concerned with the base load versus peak load needs throughout the day, without massive improvements in battery technology, the more democratized, less geography-reliant green energy production sources truly suck at essentially being turned up and down to meet varying energy needs through the day. It is not really possible without ungodly large and inefficient battery farms for things like solar and wind with essentially “turn up and down” their energy output throughout the day as needed, whereas hydro and geothermal can very easily have the number of turbines and other drivers adjusted to meet current electrical needs. This is of course not taking into account nuclear which needs to be a backbone of any of these proposals. That said, Germany has been closing their nuclear power plants.