I don’t care about diversity in films

I don’t care about diversity in films


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One of my all time favorite lines, from Community: Dean Pelton: Well look at this group having some of meeting and being so diverse. There is just... boy! There is just one of every kind of you, isn't there?


Pop pop!




They were streets ahead.


Everyone else is just streets behind


Luke Youngblood is just so energetic and funny. Did a photo thing with him at LeakyCon a couple of years ago. His panels were so funny and he is like a ball of energy.


I’m assuming Luke Youngblood is the actor who plays Magnatude? It seems almost like a Nick Offerman/Ron Swanson situation where they basically wrote the character around the actor’s off-screen personality... all the writers really did was change his name


Yes. He was like Lee Jordan in the first 2 Harry Potter movies. He said that filming was a lot of fun when they were kids. He wished the brought him back for the rest the movies.


Leonard likes this post.


Shut up Leonard. We know about your prescription socks!


Shut up Leonard I once mistook six people for you at a pharmacy!


My personal favorite Leonard: Thanks for eating all the macaroni! Jeff: Shut up Leonard, nobody even knows what you're talking about!! Jeff, whispering to Britta: I did eat all the macaroni. It's messed up that he knows.


Shutup Leonard those 18 year olds playing billiards with you do it ironically


This is our human color wheel! It goes from Seal, to Seal's teeth!


Get me a Desmond Tutu, with enough cream to make it a Lou Diamond Phillips


Latinos not withstanding....


-He's like a white Abed -Does that make Abed Brown Joey? -If you wanna get racist about it




I'm reading King's Dark Tower series and a lot of the plot is about how Detta hates white people, including Roland. But in the movie they hired Idris Elba to play Roland. Weird. (BTW I'm a huge Elba fan, I just don't think he was right for that role).


To be fair that entire movie was a wreck. It's cute how they added so many SK references to appeal to the fans thinking we would not see what fresh garbage that was.


I mean. The references are a part of the book series. A BIG part.


Yes, but that’s because it was actually designed that way with pay off in the end. The movie had 0 pay off for any parts.


Doesn't matter. They were talking like they were just doing it to appeal to fans of King and not because it was something that was already present in the books. Don't get me wrong, I hated the movie, but there are just so many other things wrong with it that can be shit talked about


Yes but the movie and books are not the same thing, and the reason it exists in the books is to have a pay off that makes sense. The movie did it just for fan service, which means it completely missed the importance of it.


So. Much. Garbage. Im still salty about it.


I never even watched it. Once the reviews were in I decided to same myself from the heartbreak


Imagine if they took two sentences from the first book, only the Jake stuff from two and three, and then someone overheard someone at a coffee shop describing the ending of the last book. That's all you're missing out on.


I saw the run time and already knew


Alright alright alright.


Oh my god it was so bad like why take such a good book and change almost everything about it it made no sense


Imagine thinking distilling like 4500 pages of story into a single sub-2 hour film is a good idea


I have never read the books. I didn't know what it was about going in. I love Idris Elba and have a respect for King and his movies have been pretty good so I imagine his books are (only read 2). But that movie was so bad I didn't remember what it was about when I left and was bored the whole time. Even I know that movie was straight trash.


I agree a million times over with you. The description of Roland was that he was a young/middle aged Clint Eastwood, the art was the same, and his interactions with Detta/Odetta/Susannah and Eddie was that he was white. But then they shoe horned Edris Elba into the role and anyone who objected was called a racist. It just didn’t fit. And the movie (predictably) flopped, and any attempt at a long from tv show or movie sequels are basically dead.


I'd say middle-aged at the start of the Dark Tower series, but in the part that describes his youth (book 4 I think?), he's basically still a pretty serious youth that goes through some fucked up shit (mother seduced by the Man in Black, his lover sacrificed, his best friends killed). He was literally descended from royalty. His guns (which were passed down in his family from father to son) were made from Excalibur, melted down and reforged, and he was of the line of King Arthur. And in the end he's left to be only a wanderer, with a singular goal: Chase down the man who destroyed his friends, lover, family, and society and enact vengeance. The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.


You are making me want to re-read the series!!!!


The best opening line from any fiction I've ever read *The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed*


> The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. One of King's best lines ever. Pretty much establishes everything you need to know going in, and sets the tone perfectly.


Shoe horned* FTFY


But "show horned" actually works as word play.


Also the color of Roland's (blue) eyes is not just mentioned repeatedly throughout the series, it being distinct from Eddie's hazel eyes is a plot point in the Drawing of the Three. They "solved" the issue of Susannah/Detta by not including Eddie or Susannah in the film at all. It feels like someone involved with the adaptation went out of their way to "lick" it so as to ruin the property for future adaptations. Same for the 2020 adaptation of The Stand. *Any* character could have been cast as a person of color except Larry Underwood, >!whose success from making his voice sound "urban" on the radio signified the phoniness his character arc shows him overcoming.!<


Yea I pictured Roland to be like Strider.


He's basically just Clint Eastwood from his spaghetti western days. It's even mentioned in the books. Jake sees a poster from the good the bad and the ugly and almost gets triggered because it's just a poster of Roland.


Don't forget the part with the police officer standing up in the movie theatre years after coming across Roland and shouting something like that's him, that's the gunslinger, it was Clint Eastwoods dirty Harry on the screen I think.




Yes! This was strange af to me. Like, his being white was kind of a whole plot point for a while.


Why don’t they make a Martin Luther King biopic with an Asian actor?


I’d like to see some cholo gangster rendition of “I have a dream”.


The higher the socks the free’er the foo.


You joke about that, but I had a buddy who I used to go to car meets with in Dallas who was your stereotypical cholo gangster. Name was Faustino, and in addition to being a good friend from the meets, I very often took my car to his garage for work. Full prison style sleeves, bald head, goatee, drove a lowrider, wore a headband like 90% of the time... you know the type. One day I went on over there for a barbecue and to pick up my car after he did some work to it, and he was helping his daughter (probably in third or fourth grade) prepare for a school presentation for "Hero Day", where she chose MLK and wanted to do the I have dream speech. Faustino had memorized the speech verbatim and was going over it with her, in a terrifyingly accurate impression of MLK's voice! I remember watching it play out for a bit before I knocked on the gate to go in, and he, without skipping a beat "we must forever conduct our struggle... HEY HOMES COME ON IN!... on the high plane of dignity and discipline" Thanks for reminding me of this man. I haven't talked to him in a while I'm going to call him later.


Or a huge Broadway musical about Alexander Hamilton with no white actors. ​ Oh wait.


Great actor! He was just in the wrong role.


I always pictured Roland as Clint Eastwood


I grew up in Maine and I can agree. I wasn’t around many black people growing up lol


Grew up in New Hampshire, I was the only black student in my high school.


Heyo NH buddy. I was in a heavily populated city here growing up and I did go to school with a lot of black and Hispanic kids! We were on the border near Massachusetts, idk if thats why. Everywhere else out of the cities though here , there is tons of white people.


Oh yeah if you're south of Hooksett you're basically in northern Mass lol. I grew up in a tiny tiny town like 1.5 hours from Manchester.


I grew up in central Wisconsin. We had a fit, tall, black social studies teacher and he regularly got stopped for his autograph because people assumed he either played for the Bucks or the Packers. He thought it was hilarious.


Cancel pennywise for not having a diverse kill list


And he was ageist. Only ever went after kids.


The couple in the river getting curbstomped by homophobes beg to differ.


A fair point. An ageist homophobe.


Petition to recast the film as Pennywise played by an 80 year old Vietnamese woman.


They’re in the sewers!


Damn 94% white.


Go to more rural areas and its like 99%.


This is the first time I've heard this. Yes, most of King's main characters are white, but he's almost always included other races in his stories. That's so weird.


> but he's almost always included other races in his stories. And most of the black ones have magic powers, so there's that. https://web.archive.org/web/20061114013842/http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtml


In It the racism of Derry Is depicted very well, in the old times and in present days


To be fair It was a bit of an outlier. Most of his novels feature very few racial minorities, because they're set in parts of the country with very few racial minorities to begin with.


I lived beside Maine (like we would go shopping there) for 3 years and didn't see a black person until 6 months in. I even pointed it out to my wife, because it was the first time I realized *everyone* was white. I'm from close to Toronto and our diversity level is pretty damn high so it's not something I think about or notice day to day. But then I suddenly realized I hadn't seen a black person for months. I agree with OP here, I don't really see any bad faith in his point of view (at least in the OP). To me it's just not relevant unless you're doing something insane like making Abraham Lincoln a different race. Then I may have questions. I care 500 times more about the product itself than the races of anyone involved. I don't go to Black Panther and cry Wakanda is full of black people, it fucking better be. Flipping the 'token' trope to the white guy was a funny and smart use of the obvious situation I thought.


I think the problem is in how diversity tends to be added, not that it’s there in the first place. The token Black/Asian/disabled etc. character tends to be a poorly-written cardboard cutout of a character, nobody wants that. We need more fleshed-out, strong characters who *happen* to be Black/Asian/disabled etc., not characters who exist simply to please a group of viewers.




When it's done well you don't even notice it's being done. Like I feel like the expanse did it pretty well. Mix of races, mix of sexualities, but actually let the characters have personality beyond "he's the gay one".


The expanse did an amazing job like drummer is gay/bi but her personality was scary fucker. Ditto on Amos who talked about wearing heels yet didn't fit in the typical LGBT stereotypes. The mob boss with a bum arm did regular mob boss stuff. Different races were everywhere yet the prejudice was super focused on where a character comes from and not "black or white lul". Amazing show


I thought Amos' experience wearing heels was from when he was forced into prostitution as a child, not because he was LGBT.


I don't think his sexually is really explored very much beyond the fact that it's "complex" and clearly intertwined with some trauma.


I am almost 100% positive that Amos is straight. Every time a male or male presenting person comes onto him, he shows that he is not attracted to them. Some examples are the gay prostitute in the bar (Amos shows he isn't interested but let's him know about the knife because he knows what it's like because he's been there), the blind dude with the camera (it can be seen as Amos not shitting where he eats, but he seems visibly more uncomfortable with the blind guy than he did with the lady reporter), etc. He does show his heterosexuality multiple times throughout the series though. He admits to finding Naomi attractive and would fuck if she let him, he bangs with the earth Corp security gal, he gets into a "relationship" with the Mao sister, when he saves Alex from the belter guy in the bar he almost takes the girl Alex was flirting with, etc.


Amos' sexuality isnt as clear cut in the books as it seems in the show.


I admit I haven't read the books, and I assumed we were talking about the show already. That might be my bad.


In the books Amos is straight but he has a very fucked up relationship with sex and intimacy.


It's unclear, which to me is fantastic. He was forced into prostitution, he makes a bunch of comments in an idaf manner in contrast to typical straight guy characters, he hooks up with women, he kills lots of people and has mental illness while being super protective of his friends. He's my fave character of the show


"You're not *that guy.* *I* am that guy."


>but her personality was scary fucker Drummer: "I identify as an absolute badass. No questions."


His sexuality is that he has it when he feels the need and is in port. Amos doesn't feel like others. He is stunted and broken from his child prostitution days and his attachment to Peaches is him helping someone broken in a way his mentor helped him. He isn't a stereotype and I'm pretty sure he predominantly likes women.


Exactly and to that point I literally just thought "who is the gay person" I feel dumb but also it kinda illustrates how well written holt and Kevin are and how them being gay isn't a character trait, just a fact. It's nothing to note or remember to describe the characters because it really doesn't matter.


Gonna be honest, I HATE obviously tokenized characters. Captain Holt is one of the best gay characters in television, because he's not automatically awesome just because he's gay, he's an awesome character who happens to be gay.


The hardest thing about being a black gay cop? The discrimination.


Kills me every time


Also his delivery is the best dead pan I've ever seen. Captain Holt is the shit.




I love that in B99, the "gay character" is the exact opposite of what you'd expect the token gay character to be.


Even still, Holt manages to be the biggest drama queen, second only to Gina.


Nothing is more intoxicating than the clear absence of a penis.


Even better, they have TWO HISPANIC FEMALE characters that are COMPLETELY distinct from one another, neither conforming to existing Hispanic female archetypes.


The fact that this is so uncommon it denotes announcing still means we have a loooong way to go.


That show hits the perfect reality of diversity through environment. They are all cops in modern day Brooklyn. They *should* be such a diverse crew. And race even is important to a few episodes in driving the plot. It’s a whole character building aspect of Terry, Holt, and Rosa. But it’s all authentic moments a diverse outfit in Brooklyn would likely face in real life. A black man being harassed until the other cops realizes he is on the same team? A bisexual Latina woman falling out with her conservative Catholic parents? They also don’t resolve them with a pretty bow right away. That’s real diversity because it’s real moments.


*two Hispanic characters, and I actually watched an interesting interview- the girl who plays Rosa found out that the actress playing Amy, who is Latina, got the part and so she immediately thought she would not get the part because she thought there was no way they would cast two Latina women. Then she got the part! Edited as I got the actresses switched, my mistake as I watched the interview before I ever watched the show


You got this backwards, Melissa Fumero (Amy) got the role first and Stephanie Beatriz (Rosa) thought she wouldn’t get it cause two Latina actresses but then she did.


I read this too, and they were so freaked out about both being cast that they were sure one of them would be fired at the network meeting, because a show couldn’t have 2 Latinas. Gina Rodriguez from Jane the Virgin made them meet up when they got their parts, and they decided to go into the network meetings looking drastically different because they thought if they looked too similar NBC would replace one. Melissa went in with straight hair and Stephanie with super curly hair, and they wore different makeup and clothing; both those hairstyles actually ended up being incorporated into the character looks of Amy and Rosa


B99 is a great example of getting this right. And it's also the right setting - NY is such a diverse place, so this cast makes sense, where an all-white cop station would just be plain weird.


Well, it's Brooklyn. So it's just a show that's as diverse as the setting actually is.


Holt is a gem and must be protected


This! And a lot of us who are black don't want established characters to be made black just because (e.g. a black Superman). We want new, developed, strong characters who happen to be black.


I've always thought it's patronizing tbh. It's like: "Ohh you blacks want representation? *Throws dart at character list*, K we'll make that one black. Now go away".


Haven’t met a single black man who wants a black Superman. My friends all think it’s stupid Give us more black panthers, original black characters if you want more representation


Whenever I hear how they want to change a white character to black, all I can think is how offensive that seems. Like, they have so little faith in a black character that they have to use an established one so they can try to pander. You want a black Superman? Use one of the existing ones, and stop trying fold Clark into a box he doesn't fit in. You know what I mean? And don't even think about changing it to a Hispanic/Asian/Mid Eastern, that's not even a part of the conversation. Those cultures are only for goofy acting and comic relief!


In one of the newer My Little Pony specials/short films, there is a pony who's a significant part of the plot who has a prosthetic leg. There is ZERO mention of it, no one brings it up, it's just there and normal, which is a good lesson especially for younger people.


I always loved that about How to Train Your Dragon. Dude loses his leg, but it’s never magically fixed or anything. He just doesn’t have that leg anymore but he’s still the hero of the franchise


To be fair, a lot of non-diverse characters in shows are also poorly written cardboard cutout characters. Consider male leads in a lot of action movies


And you can just tell there was a committee where an especially woke person said, "what if they were this race/gender/sexual orientation, we need to broaden the movies appeal". Russell Crowe in The Sum of Us was some of the best damn writing and screenplay I've ever seen, and it wasn't some stupid diversity push (Russ plays a young gay man struggling with his sexuality). Compare that to now where many of the recent hollywood movies make it feel like they are being pandered to. Also so one dimensional. White man, in power, bad ... likely will assault someone and use brute force. There's nothing else to them. Make characters complicated and you make them human. That is why people loved the Sopranos, Tony was a bad guy but he was also human and we could feel empathy for him.... in a complicated way.


The worst part is that group of viewers doesn't like that cardboard cutout. Do I love seeing bi characters? Hell yes. Do I like seeing stereotypical and badly written bi characters that want sex all the time with everyone? No I rather that not be in the show. I get pretty pumped and feel pretty good when it's revealed that a character with depth and substance happens to be bi. Growing up there was no one like that on TV, all bi characters were selfish & shitty.. people believe those depictions and judge real people. Representation matters but bad representation tends to do more harm than being excluded, imo.


Also the argument isn't "we should just cast the best of the best, regardless of 'diversity'" - or its inverse, the argument is that there are millions of actors out there of [whatever diversity lot you're going for] so the quality of the movie is in absolutely no way going to drop if you manage to cast from a wider range. You're never going to get "the best" - if it even exists - there is no settling that happens just because it is diverse.




Upvoting for Schitts Creek


Schitts creek really opened my eyes. David was my favorite character and ive never really seen a show like it. It wasnt so in your face with sexuality. Instead he was just a good well written character who just happened to be pansexual. Same with patrick. I really ended up loving their relationship. Like Ian and Mickey in Shameless. Their sexuality isn't the main focus of their personality and identity


Hahaha yeeessss! I always joke that emilys only personality trait is lesbian! The writers did her dirty 😩


David is not gay, he's Pansexual, 'member? Whites, reds, rosés, reds that used to be white and vice-versa...


Thank you for reminding me! I’ve edited my original comment (and laughed at that quip once again.)


The world doesn’t need black Superman as much as it needs good, original black characters.


if they're gonna make a black Superman movie why not just use the black Superman character instead of black Clark Kent? i wouldn't use warner bros as an example cause they always just make the stupidest decision they could possibly make in any scenario


You mean [Steel?](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120207/)


unlike the media i knew that there were black superhero movies before black panther


Like that one amazing black superhero show called Static Shock. I guess there was Blade and Spawn but Static Shock was the best.


no Calvin Ellis


Donald Glover had a bit about this. I mean, a black kid in the Bronx living with his Auntie does feel pretty plausible for contemporary New York. Even Peter Parker is a pretty racially ambigious name. I'm not mad at it. The character wears a fucking mask for most of the shows/movies anyway so it's not like it detracts. Thor I get. Spiderman tho? Sure. He can be black.


I care about it insofar as shit needs to make sense. If you're making a period piece set in 1600's Europe, and half the cast is Asian, there's a problem. If they do a movie about Kony, I don't wanna see a little white boy in his child army.


Kony 2012. Never forget.


If you're posting 'bout Kony I feel bad for you son, he snatched 99 children and your comment saved none.




[never forgot](https://youtu.be/Y7nymZEXjf8)


LOL that was such a thing…YouTube still didn’t exist that long and we just got HD videos streaming more widely etc. And young people still used Facebook lol


I'm just glad all the memes and fb posts stopped his war crimes before something terrible happened. /s


YouTube had been around a long time by 2012 and was widely used and popular...


idk if you've noticed but the world is actually in permanent kony 2012 mode now


YouTube was around for like 7 years at that point lol.


We're getting diverse advertisements in Australia. But they seem to be dubbed over American advertisements or very badly cast - there's pale white people and very stereotypically African American styling, and nothing else. A LOT of Australians are Asian, Mediterranean, Indigenous Australian, Eastern European, Indian, Sin- Lankan, Middle Eastern, Russian, and African. We have very few African American people - they're typically only tourists, and have very unique styling choices in comparison to Australians with African heritage. I find it really strange when our advertisements try to be diverse and more accurately reflect the general population but leave out Asians. It just seems really off, and seems like we're getting onto the bandwagon of a different country.


> We have very few African American people Well unless you have tourists, you have 0 African *American* people.


Technically if an African American came to Australia and then got dual citizenship they’d be an African-American Australian.


I mean, I didn't want to say zero, there might be some international students.


Another example is The Last Airbender by M. Night Shyamalan. I shudder thinking about it.


Agreed. Most of the time it just looks forced.


/r/GreysAnatomy S14+ has entered the chat




Yeah I think they said something about how it was an alternate reality where Queen Charlotte was black and that forced society to be more accepting. But there's tons of other intentional anachronisms, I don't think Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish songs were ever played by the string quartets at the balls in the Regency era, but there they were. The show never pretends to be historically accurate but it's still very enjoyable.


Perfect example - The new Ghostbusters movie. All female remake just seemed so forced and was an awful movie. Then if you say you don’t like it you’re labeled a misogynist.


The new Ghostbusters movie was trash. It wasn't trash because it was an all female cast. It was trash because it was a bad movie. The gender of the cast is beside the point.


Ghostbusters was bad because the writer/director, who was a man btw, had only done small quirky comedies and had never written or directed an action adventure film before. The story pacing was off and it made no sense but somehow the comedians got blamed for it.


I actually really like diversity in films and it’s a good thing. And diversity is about more than just the colour of that persons skin - it’s also the way the character is written and the authenticity that can bring. But this recent thing of forced diversity is really irritating me. It’s superficial and very distracting. I find it patronising actually. They recently made Anne Boleyn black in a tv show here in the U.K. The producers then did a bunch of press releases talking about how groundbreaking that is that the actress is black. They then followed that up with interviews talking about how people are racist for thinking the actress should have been white. The whole thing was all very contrived and it actually made me angry to see that the production company were clearly using race and racial issues to provoke people and generate publicity. They were essentially using the black actress as a pawn. I feel like most “diverse” things these days are using minorities as pawns. As a minority myself I hate seeing half baked characters and ideas stuffed into crap just so some ignorant people can feel good about themselves and promote whatever they’re doing as being “inclusive” (when really it’s not at all).


I think it's more important for representation. Say you grew up in a majority white area and you're Hispanic or Indian or East Asian. You might not have seen many people like you in popular media, making it seem like you're just extras in real life. I agree that forced diversity is cringe as fuck, especially if the characters are just poorly written. People just want accurate representation in a way that doesnt distract from the story.


I’d like to add my own experience to this and agree with both above comments. I feel like representation is something a lot of people don’t understand until it happens for your race, as weird as that sounds. Anecdotally, I am a person of Asian descent, and I’ve still had my fair share of insensitive or downright mean comments about my eyes and stereotypical jokes about me. Growing up, I didn’t get much exposure to races that weren’t white in American entertainment, so I didn’t really think about it; I just assumed that’s how it was. That’s until recently, when the Shang-Chi trailer came out, and I actually understood why representation is so cool. Now, there’s someone who looks like me walking with the Avengers, and I feel weirdly seen with it. He’s not the butt of a joke, a token side character, or anything like that. He’s his own guy, arguably the best martial artist in the comics, and he’s going to be in mainstream cinema. Now I can relate to some extent to the way that the African-American community saw Black Panther. My point is that diversity matters. I think a lot of people who grow up watching people like them as heroes and main characters in their media get desensitized to it. That said, forcing diversity to make your corporation look good is always a bad idea. It’s very clear when this is shoehorned in. A recent case is black superman. If Superman had started in the DCEU black because the best actor for the job had been African-American, that would be different. But to me, kicking Cavill out and switching the race now, once he’s already established, is a very blatant and ill-informed attempt to gain public approval after all the scandals WB got hit with.


As a woman I always felt underrepresented in TV shows, movies and video games... at least in anything that's not a classic "chick flick". Growing up I only had Scully from the x-files and Samantha Carter from Stargate to look up to when it came to badass and well-written female characters. It's so much better today and yet they still get it horribly wrong because they are forcing it. But then once in a while a gem like "the old guard" pops up that just gets it right and I want to almost weep with joy.


Agreed. Just like I don't think every movie and tv show needs a gay/trans plot-line.


i do like how they portrayed the head of the precinct in brooklynn 99 like it's not his personality it's just a fact about him


Yeah Holt was a great character for normalising gay characters without them being the token gay guy, felt so normal and natural. The entire show does a really good job of diversity really. In the main cast you have: A black gay boss who doesn't fit stereotypes of either (Holt) A muscular black man who's a doting father (Terry) A bisexual Latino woman (Diaz) A Cuban (?) woman (Santiago) Two standard white characters (Jake and Gina) Camp unmasculine straight white guy who's comfortable with it (Charles) Two fat characters (Hitchcock and Scully) Yet there's never any complaints about them ticking boxes because they don't really pander at all about it. The stories are about them working for the police and their sexualities and races are a side note, not the most prominent part of their character.


Schitt's Creek nailed it though. David's sexuality is part of some of the best jokes and lines throughout the show, but his personality is so much more than that. You genuinely don't spend most episodes saying "Oh yea he's bi" you just kind of go on and then say "Oh yea him and patrick are cute." How they did it was so masterfully done. Side note: If you want to see the impact of a show just normalizing a gay/bi character and not parading them in every storyline because they can, watch Schitt's Creek. Then, watch the documentary called Best Wishes, Warmest Regards, and see how the show left such a positive impact on so many teenageers struggling with their sexuality. It was really moving stuff.


Schitts creek is honestly one of the only shows I've ever seen where I didn't feel a lgbtq characters sexuality wasn't shoved down my throat. I don't know if it was the writers or the actor himself, but they did a PHENOMENAL job with that character. Funny, charming, very open and flamboyant-but not over the top. One of the best comedies I've seen in awhile


The worst is the gay character who's only personality is bringing up that they're gay every second.


Or worst, just that they do sex all around because it's the easiest way to make u know for sure they are gay


Yes! Also, when they create a character that's like this, it has an opposite effect. My father is very bigoted even though my sister is bi, and he really relates LGBTQ+ with indecency. When a show includes a gay character whose only trait is participate in orgies that only makes him think that that's all there is to it and that he's right. I obviously can't speak for the LGBTQ+ folk, but if you asked me, I'd rather have no representation than to have this distorted display just for the sake of diversity.


I have to say I'm also a bit disgusted when it's just that in every show where there is a lesbian/gay, it feels like the writers can't control themselves and feel the urge to write a sex scene


I'm assuming it might have been in the books, but I felt this way for Shadow and Bone. Those scenes added nothing and felt like crap representation.


Exactly! Like they write them in with absolutely no depth of character other than their sexuality. What's the point of that?


Also they’re either super gay or super manly so they’re not seen as “super gay”.


My wife’s currently watching Station 19 and in just one episode we had a racism sub-plot, ACAB, misogyny is bad, deporting illegal immigrants is wrong, gay AND lesbian sex scene, woman beats man in strength competition and more! There wasn’t a box left unticked.


Station 19 is so unbelievably on-the-nose and preachy that it doesn't even feel like a TV show anymore. The characters practically turn to the camera and monolgue to the viewer whatever social issue ABC wants to lecture about that night. I usually don't give much stock to compaints about SJW/virtue signaling but that show is one hell of an exception.


I've quit one or two TV shows over the past few years because their preachiness began to outweigh their entertainment value.




Let me tell you about MASH my friend.


If they don't attempt to break a Guinness record for the most tokens in a single TV episode I don't really understand why would they do such thing


I bought some cat food the other day that was proudly supporting gay rights (not that I don’t support gay rights but cat food brands don’t need to reaffirm their stance on the packaging).


How dare you not supporting the rights of gay cats


Even though theres no such thing as gay cats, hell cats don't even have a sexuality the only time cats have sex is to make more cats outside that cats don't have sex just for pleasure unlike humans dolphins Etc etc


But boy dogs will be trying to have sex with other boy dogs


I think the problem is basically that forced diversity + rehashing old plots is seen by marketers as a way of maximizing profits and minimizing risks. I will ilustrate using two extremes, and then the bizarro mixture that film studios do with its middle point. If you do a white-straight dominated re-boot film, you lose a lot of potential progressive/queer/ethnic minority movie-goers, even if it does moderatily well, due to using a known-to-work plot and targeting nostalgia. If you do diversity properly with a new plot, for example, making a film about Mansa Musa doing the Hajj, you will lose a lot of christians/conservative/white people, and also take increased risks by using a fresh plot. The bastard proven method nowadays is a stupid middle-point between this 2: a re-boot with inclusivity sprinkled on top, catering in a mediocre but effective way to most people.


Forced Diversity everywhere nowadays


Most people agree with you, but they kinda just have their opinion and go on with their daily life. The crowd that wants diversity in every single aspect of life is much louder than you are, and can be a PR nightmare for any company.




Not "can be", "is generally"


Wise man once said >the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Forced diversity sucks and is annoying. But I like to see a variety of different characters, there's nothing wrong with that.


Example of diversity done well are the various *Star Trek* shows and movies. It just happens organically and identity politics is never shoved down your throat. Most of woke media is thinly veiled infotainment, like *Veggie Tales*. The "message" is more important than the plot, and it shows. Edit: Sorry commenters, can't reply because I used a mean word to defend myself from repeated insults and false accusations. See you in 14 days...


Same thing with The Expanse for example - it's a fantastic sci-fi show with an incredibly diverse cast of characters, never once preachy about said diversity


Exactly! Diversity is intrinsic to the plot, but not the main plot itself.


Don't forget that the original Star Trek was controversial at the time for featuring a black woman in relatively senior position, as well as for having TV's first interracial kiss. I'm sure that if a lot of people commenting on this thread were redditing in the '60s they would be complaining about Roddenberry shoving Uhura and Sulu down our throats (which he did intentionally). Maybe that's the point of including diversity in entertainment - so that future generations will see gay story lines and trans characters and not think anything of it. Theres a good story Nichelle Nichols tells about wanting to quit Star Trek. Just before she finally quit the show, she happened to Meet MLK, who convinced her to stay because it was important for black children to see themselves represented by Uhura on the bridge of the Enterprise. The full story is here: [https://intl.startrek.com/news/nichelle-nichols-remembers-dr-king](https://intl.startrek.com/news/nichelle-nichols-remembers-dr-king)


Whoopi Goldberg said that when she saw Uhura on TV, she got so excited that she ran and told her mother that she wanted to be on TV one day. Inclusion really does matter.


This is what people (I think) are failing to see about this issue. More important than whether you personally feel that a character has been “shoehorned” in as black or gay or disabled or what have you is little kids being able to find positive representations of themselves in media. Making it so a little Hispanic girl can see herself as a cop or a nurse or a CEO or whatever is just a really good thing for society. She deserves to have positive role models who look like her. We all do.


Except the original Star Trek was the "woke" show of its time A show with a black woman and Asian man in space (and a Russian during the cold war!), episodes dealing with racial bigotry, and with the first kiss between a white man and black woman on TV? All of that was deliberate and not particularly organic


Sir, Veggie Tales is a kid show. The point is to make the message the main priority.


I was with you until you started hating on VeggieTales. Bro, I will die for Larry.




Was this after your friends all laughed, or after you had a bath?


Identity politics are a very significant part of Star Trek. The original series was one of the most socially progressive - possibly THE most socially progressive - show of the 60s


> Shows don’t ‘need more diversity’ having a mixed bag of people doesn’t make something inherently good. Doesn't necessarily mean the show is any better than it otherwise would have been, but it also doesn't make it worse. Also there are benefits to it, for a lot of people seeing "someone like them" in a show or movie can mean a lot, especially if they are a minority group which historically has been screwed over.


Well I'm glad someone said it


You're saying that how it makes you feel is one of the most important factors, have you considered how seeing relatable and well executed representation would make people of that group feel? Not to mention the just the sheer volume of stories and experiences that have gone ignored for so long and how they can contribute to a story over all. It's all about perspective my guy. Those "diversity" characters have created some of the most relatable and meaningful connections for me. How I felt seeing a Spider-Man that shared my heritage, watching static shock with Virgil, who looked like several men in my family. It just can't be put into words when being a straight white man is treated like the default human and you're not a straight white man.


Yeah my family is mixed and I'm not saying I need it but I appreciate seeing it in media and I do think there are unique situations that are worth seeing play out.


These kinds of posts always get to me, because it comes from the mindset that any representation for someone other than a group they are a part of is "forced" or "pandering". It's easy for a white person to question all of this "forced diversity" when they've been disproportionately represented for decades, to the point that they subconsciously consider it the default. And like you said, it comes from a lack of empathy, especially for younger viewers that do notice if someone like them is almost never the protagonist. It's a shame that so many people share the same sentiment as OP, just because their suspension of disbelief stops at diversity for reasons they don't want to confront, or worse consider a good thing.


I'm not sure I agree. Match the set. If the set is a place that is 90% black have a 90% black cast. If the film is not based on reality why not push for diversity. I'm sure a little South Asian kid would love to have more super heros who look like them.