Remember when the current chancellor “forgot” to declare his purchase of 7 luxury apartments?
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/18/jeremy-hunt-investigated-breach-money-laundering-rules-luxury-flats
Rishi "forgot" to declare that his wife owns last time I checked £700m worth of shares in Infosys. He also introduced legislation giving that company competitive advantage on the market and put many British SMEs out of business to favour Indian big corporations. Oh and he also kept non-doms legislation and refused to release his wife's tax returns to prove she is paying tax in the UK now.
>Oh and he also kept non-doms legislation and refused to release his wife's tax returns to prove she is paying tax in the UK now.
And, to my mind, his wife hasn't provided sufficient evidence that she intends/intended to return to live in India - which is a requirement for the non-dom tax exception she claimed for years.
Interesting fact: you can claim the remittance basis retrospectively up to four years after the relevant tax year. So say you wanted to pay the tax but then something changed in, say (purely an an example) January 2025, you could then reclaim all that tax you’ve paid.
I'm surprised there wasn't more a of a deal around the shady phrasing Sunął used at PMQs. I'm probably paraphrasing but it was 'as more information became available (long 5-7 second pause) IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN'. So Sunął straight up didn't say they didn't know, just that the public found out so they had to do something.
I'm guessing they've got their keyboard set to en and pl in their phone and it auto corrected Sunak to sunął. Unless it was a clever joke.
The clever joke being sunął is the masculine third person singular past tense of the verb sunąć which means glide/drift/float
Could be a very tenuous joke about Rishi gliding past or into disaster
> I’m intrigued as to why you thought it was anything other than a typo.
Because he got two letters wrong and that error was perfectly repeated.
As someone has suggested, it’s most likely best explained as an autocorrect to a polish word.
My friend has been doing french Duolingo on their phone and all their chat messages are being autocorrected to be misspelled with accents on random letters. Quite amusing, we all just react with the french flag when it happens
that's not an I, it's an l (lowercase L) with a line through it. Polish.
Don't quote me, because I'm not Polish and can't speak it, that particular l is pronounced somewhere between a regular l and a w. Like... still an l, but... w. Think of it wike having some pronunciation troubwe, but being reawy wiwwing to recite a wimerick.
*That* kind of l.
EDIT:
I know from having met a Polish guy whose name ended in -sław. He always said it like '-suave'. Thing is, it still *sounded* like an l even though it totally didn't.
Quite. "Sacked after", not "Sacked due to" or as a result of.
"Row over tax affairs" is also a very dismissive and downplaying way of putting what is essentially, if I understand correctly, conspiracy to fraud.
I completely agree. Some news sites are saying Rishi knew of the issue since October. Three guesses on why it took so long to sack him.
Inevitably, Zahawi will be back under a new administration like Priti Patel.
He "agreed" to reach a settlement with his own government. Probably paid enough that the matter is closed and no further investigation is done into his accounts.
Of course - if it were the latter* there would be less than 10% of people in power. “Do whatever you want as long as you don’t get caught” is the Tory motto. And of course, the “ethics probe” result will never see the light of the day and there will be no further action because “he is punished!”
But fear not, Tory voters - he will be stage a spectacular comeback through some back door.
Giving Halloween a serious run for its money if anything!
[https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3503950/handy-chart-lays-halloween-franchises-choose-adventure-timeline/](https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3503950/handy-chart-lays-halloween-franchises-choose-adventure-timeline/)
https://i0.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/halloween-timeline.jpg?resize=768%2C954&ssl=1
This country is a disgrace. Overclaim on your tax credits by 100 quid in a year, HMRC will put the hounds on you.
'forget' to pay the amount that Zahawi has, and they don't seem to care wtf.
Not exactly true. HMRC hit Zahawi with a significant fine. The issue here is that the Tories seemingly aren’t that fussed about Zahawi’s dishonesty. And previously didn’t seem to think it should affect his role in government.
The question is whether the fine was worth it. By avoiding paying tax, he was able to use that money to invest in things which have probably performed far better than what he'll pay in fines.
It’s no real question. It’s believed to be about £1.2m on a missed payment of £3.7m (30%). If you know of any legitimate investments that are performing like that, let me know.
> Rishi Sunak and Nadhim Zahawi are both under > pressure over the tax saga (EPA) Mr Zahawi is understood to have paid a £1m penalty as part of a £4.8m settlement over a dispute related to the sale of YouGov shares held by offshore company Balshore Investments linked to his father.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadhim-zahawi-tax-hmrc-investigation-b2269659.html
Not “linked to his father”. Zahawi set up the business in his father’s name precisely to avoid certain levels of tax. He knew exactly what he was doing.
It's "can my parents put their house in my name to avoid paying inheritance tax" level of tax naivety.
If he'd just posted on /r/UKpersonalFinance he'd have been told it was dodgy, so I can't believe that someone with access to accountants and advisors couldn't have known.
There was a time when buying up 3.7 million in PPE was an incredibly strong investment with a vastly greater return than 1 million.
It's not about whether he did profit it's about them constantly posturing themselves to profit off of all of our misfortune while breaking the rules to do so that they constantly hit us all over the head with.
These are corrupt chancing opportunists. And they will never change their behaviour which is great detriment to our society.
They sculpt our laws for their own benefit and kick us while we are down telling us there's no money left to build our nation out to support our people.
And all the money that they take out of the economy is money that *should* and *would* be going into public services such as the NHS. That's the worst crime they commit - stealing from the poor to line the pockets of the rich, simple as that.
I think you’re wrong. Zahawi has not profited from this. Look, I’m not defending him. We all know that he tried to steal £3.7m from the country. But I think HMRC dealt with it properly. The outstanding question is whether someone who tries to steal from the country is fit for public office. That’s the question the Tories failed. The delay in sacking him has demonstrated the leadership’s views on the subject.
Edit: I'm wrong - read catfish's reply to this. 30% fine could have been for "deliberate and concealed".
***
HMRC specifically didn't deal with it properly though. He was fined 30% - that's because a tax mistake that is "careless but not deliberate" gets that level of fine. That's why he keeps saying that phrase - it's tax legalese.
But Zahawi put shares from YouGov in an offshore company in his parents name and claimed it had nothing to do with him - but then was discovered it was paying him dividends. That sounds like "deliberate and concealed" to me in that it was on purpose and he hid it on purpose. That is again tax law legalese and for that offense he should get a 100% fine.
So HMRC didn't deal with it properly. They made a deal that saved him/cost us millions.
No, you’re wrong.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/penalties-an-overview-for-agents-and-advisers
> For example, if:
> a penalty arises because of a lack of reasonable care, the penalty will be between 0% and 30% of the extra tax due
> the error is deliberate, the penalty will be between 20 and 70% of the extra tax due
> the error is deliberate and concealed, the penalty will be between 30 and 100% of the extra tax due
A 30% fine can fall into each of those categories. Don’t assume Zahawi was fined the maximum amount for “careless but not deliberate” - that’s what the Tories want you to believe. It hasn’t been disclosed, and HMRC’s Chief Executive stuck his neck out to say that there are no fines for innocent mistakes.
> Don’t assume Zahawi was fined the maximum amount for “careless but not deliberate” - that’s what the Tories want you to believe.
We can go a step further...
If you get the maximum fine that means you didn't acknowledge the error, you didn't cooperate and you didn't make helpful disclosures...
The behaviour underlying the penalty relates to the time the error was made. But even an 'innocent' careless error doesn't look good if you followed it up by being uncooperative and resisting disclosures.
They got him on this specific case but how many others has he gotten away with? capital gains is easy to track - you sell shares and there’s a record of it with HMRC. Don’t declare capital gains for tax year they were sold and it’s quite clear there’s an issue. Income & expenses are a different story - much murkier for HMRC to verify and track without consulting with huge number of third parties
Isn't all tax avoidance morally wrong in our society? We seem to focus solely on those that we don't like very much. 10 years ago it was estimated that up to £8 billion a year was being lost in tax receipts from "cash in hand" jobs by trades and service providers.
We as a society seem very happy to shout about a small group of people while offering cash to trades people for a cheaper price which in turn allows them to avoid tax and NI payments.
A fine that’s set at a percentage of the money that was attempted to be stolen is actually quite fair. You’re not going to be hit with a million pound fine for not paying back an overpayment of Child Benefit.
I think Hmrc did care. I mean he was in a very privileged position so unless it was just driven by him significantly pissing people off Hmrc had obviously decided what he did was very dodgy and they were not going to accept no for an answer.
This case is only public because a tax advocate pressed the issue with Zahawi.
You dont need “more”details…the case has already been laid out by him. Zahawi had no answers…thats why he paid the tax and the fine.
If it where any other times heads would roll at the hmrc but given sunaks passed dodgy dealing with them and tci funds. I expect he will be sitting on a sphincter as tight as the Tory public sector budget.
Sure, but is that more or less, proportionally, than the average tax cheat has to pay? And why no *mention* of prison time when that is the constant threat the rest of us face?
Oct 25 : "Sunak: This government will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level."
Oct 25 : Outcry over Suella Braverman’s return as home secretary...days after she resigned over security breach.
Oct 26 : Charity founded by Jeremy Hunt paid 66% of income to chief executive.
Oct 28 : UK government delays clean water and nature targets, breaching Environment Act.
Oct 29 : Person who opposed buffer zones outside abortion clinics announced as Womens Minister
Nov 07 : (Sunak at COP27) ...diversifying our energy supplies by investing in renewables is ... also a fantastic source of new jobs and growth.
Dec 07 : UK’s first new coalmine for 30 years gets go-ahead in Cumbria
Dec21 : Newly appointed ethics adviser told they cannot launch their own investgations.
Jan18 : Sunak says Zahawi has "already addressed the [tax] matter in full"
Jan 25 : Nadhim Zahawi sacked from government after tax row
What fresh "integrity" awaits us tomorrow?
[https://twitter.com/haggis\_uk/status/1513878458711093254](https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1513878458711093254)
"No, Mr Speaker, I did not attend any parties."
The real crime is that we don't get to lock any of this corrupt government up. No power and surrounded by people who'd snap them like a pencil. Now that would be a fitting end to the Tories.
Minor point - the coal mine is going after coking coal for use in metal production aka metallurgical coal.
Coal used in power plants is a different grade - thermal coal - which the Whitehaven mine won't produce.
And for which the steel industry say they will have no use, and which another part of the government is funding programs to move to electric arc furnaces. At least 90% would be exported.
The Suella Braverman security breach really gets me. I can guarantee that if lesser civil servants did this, they would be rejected for future civil service roles at the screening stage.
Truly a rule thee but not for me. Cunts.
you forgot the bees. Banned pesticides are okay now.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ministers-allow-banned-bee-killing-pesticide-to-be-used-for-third-year-running/ar-AA16KOmQ
Crucially though it hampers their election operation. Zahawi founded You Gov and has considerable expertise in interpreting polling data. He's a big asset but now will take a less significant role.
>a less significant role
... publicly.
They're quite happy to take direction behind the scenes from scumbags who pay them pots of money. There'll be no problem with continuing to work with one who's useful to them.
It’s cringey to read.
Yes, you misled HRMC. Yes, as the chancellor you didn’t abide by the rules set to every wage earner in the U.K. Yes, you held out paying your taxes and got fined for it. Yes, you tried to stay in government with no shame whatsoever whilst your dirty washing was aired in public. But great stuff rolling out the vaccine program. You should be proud.
For a moment I thought you was talking about Rishi.
Most of what you said is also applicable to him except he's never been fined for his and his wife's misdeeds.
He did get fined for not wearing a seatbelt however...
Just makes Sunak seem even weaker at this point. He delayed and delayed, but has been forced to do something against his will.
It would have been so much better for his revamped de-sleazed Conservative government if Sunak had fired him quickly.
Exactly my thoughts. Weak Rishi tried to ignore it but it turned out blatant criminal behaviour - attempting to steal millions from the taxpayer - can eventually force the wet lettuce to appear in public.
He is desperately weak indeed. He is not the most likeable person, and that went against him several times. But he also doesn't seem to have much leadership in him. Johnson had a way where he could confidently do one thing one day, and then confidently execute a U turn the next. In politics, that is a valuable skill.
Look it's gotta be said that whatever he does in whatever timing it's going to bite him in the ass. Their whole idiology is to take from the poor and give to the rich. It's just a ticking timebomb of when it will fail and it appears that the timer has reached zero.
Everything that's happening are just symptoms of an idiology that works against the majority of people. We're just witnessing the death of it.
I've no idea where you live, but I live in a Tory stronghold area. There are NHS employees that are staunch Tory voters here in Lincs. I'm fucking stunned by their allegiance and ignorance.
Yeah, those are the ones that voted for bOjO, because he was different from the others. And, they wanted a change ┐(´•\_•\`)┌
The same voters say that whilst waiting in a queue for a food bank...
It's amazing how they accept getting the pish ripped out then. Govey talking with a straight face, saying the spirit of thatcherism will help the north England. She's the reason vast areas of the country is fucked. I can't believe he wasn't chased out of town.
> I'm fucking stunned by their allegiance and ignorance.
No matter how well you try to educate people, far too many idiots will gladly stay ignorant, because they don't want to admit they were wrong.
So they end up sticking with bad choices because their pride and ego is more important than facts.
_"As you leave, you should be extremely proud of your wide-ranging achievements"_ - What a joke, imagine getting caught for embezzlement at work but instead of getting fired they put you on gardening leave and congratulate you on a job well done.
Wow... I wish I could hope for such a letter if i was sacked. Stating you got caught.But hey, I'll give you a glowing recommendation you can give to your next employer...
This has been reported by the Tax Alliance for over a year now. But, it’s only when the mainstream media finally started hinting at it that Sunak took action. I think that makes it clear why he acted now and it’s not because of the corruption itself!
He acted now not because it’s clear Zahawi did it, but because it’s becoming clear Sunak knew about it months ago, and he’s trying to cover his own corrupt arse.
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/28/sunak-was-warned-of-zahawi-reputational-risk-in-october-say-sources) broke the story yesterday that Rishi was told in October.
Can’t help but wonder when the backstabbing and Tory infighting starts to make it into the public sphere
We've not seen the revolving door for a few months now. Kind of excited for another wave of resignations/sackings.
Country's going down the shitter but sometimes it's entertaining at least.
Broke rules 1, 2 and 3 of the Conservative Party.
1) Don’t get caught
2) Don’t let the public know you got caught
3) Don’t admit you did anything wrong
4. Push for Online Safety Bill to help with 1 and 2
5. Push for bill banning protests if 2 goes out of hand.
6. When you sort 1 and 2, the 3 will sort itself.
[Credit to Russ Jones for this:](https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1619630364674379776)
100 days of Sunak
Williamson: sacked
Braverman: bullying
Raab: bullying
Bridgen: lobbying
Johnson: corruption
Zahawi: ministerial code
Sunak: no seatbelt
Chester by-election: lost
Tax: Highest for 70 yrs
Polls: 23%
And he's literally the best they've got
Sunak: lied in HoC about parties, IR35 changes to help his wife's Infosys at the expense of British small and medium business (that he also didn't declare she holds over £700m of shares in that company), keeping non-dom legislation and refusing to prove his wife pays tax in the UK now.
Makes Rishi look weak for backpedaling. Every time these things happen, they should suspend immediately and fire dependent on investigation. Rather than refusing to do anything until public reaction reaches a peak.
Not that it'll hurt him in the long run though because everyone votes Tory every fucking time anyway.
Demoted from Minister without portfolio back to MP is a light penalty and not commensurate with Zahawi political blunder. Still I suppose the Tories might need Zahawi to be PM in a month's time given the total lack of leadership this mateship episode has shown up
And let me guess... "This draws a line under the whole thing, so we can move on as a government".
In other words, can you all just forget that this is endemic to the whole party and not vote us out?
Is there a reason the Tories wait until the last possible moment before doing anything, surely scandal after scandal there reaches a point where you just amputate instead of letting it fester and then eventually amputating anyway. I guess they don't want to set a precedent because they're all doing it.
Someone made an interesting point which I’d like to share. The Tories somewhat know they’re in the bog; there’s a chance they won’t win the next election (shock Pikachu). So essentially, they’re just grabbing/doing what they can that’s beneficial to them. This then looks bad on the next party who’ll have to deal with the consequences.
This is the same guy who claimed support for paying energy bills - to heat the stables for his horses:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/10/nadhim-zahawi-admits-taxpayers-electricity-stables
Clearly the media's fault. Expect him to show up on TalkTV any day now.
Only took, how many weeks???
Imagine being the boss of the HmRC tax authority and fiddling youre own tax then saying its essentially sound, cant make this shit up.
Don't worry, Tory voters!
When things like this happen, which is weekly, nowadays, the person involved normally waits in the wings for 3-6 months until the Tory party have deemed that you will have forgotten (that's how much credit they give you in terms of memory and intelligence) their misdemeanor and then brought back to the fore of politics to carry on deceiving and stealing from you!
This has taken far too long and it's far too late. If there was any decency in the conservative party they would have sacked him instantly. It's what they would expect other parties to do under the same circumstances.
Let’s not forget the integrity that Sunak is bringing back to politics and the Conservative Party.
Not sacking Zahawi right away was just carelessness, pure and simple!
The only thing that can sort out the country out is fresh governance, with a completely open and transparent agenda - The problem time and again is that power corrupts, and corruption thrives in complete privacy and behind red tape.
Open source government for the people, demand nothing less.
The Tories are cringeing. They wanted Rishi to hold the fort for a couple of years before they wheeled Johnson out of the cupboard in summer 2024. Now he's not even going to last that long.
Nadeem Zahawi… another in a long line of corrupt tory politicians who gets sacked for doing something awful, and will probably be rehired in the next month. Anyone else remember the whole taxpayer funding of his stables? The guy’s a bloody cretin.
And people will still vote Tory and will continue to even when they are eating literal garbage out of the gutter, because they believe the lie the right wing peddles to them, that if you work hard enough, you too, can become rich like us.
They swallow the lie like a fly swallows shit.
Not even an apology from Zahawi. Although he took the time to attack the media for having the audacity to report on something factual. Top tier asshole.
Why do Tories U-turn after it was obvious there was going to be outcry for a few weeks. It makes them look weak, indecisive and corrupt.
It would have been far better to just suspend him pending investigation straight away, and sack or reinstate him depending on the outcome of the situation.
Now it's going to be easily pointed out to Sunak that is honesty and integrity speech was just all talk.
>weak, indecisive and corrupt
They look these things because they are these things. All this does is reinforce the fact that they are incompetent as well.
The prime minister says it is "clear that there has been a serious breach of the Ministerial Code"
No shit Sherlock!
Sacked over a serious breach? Presumably that means that regular breaches are ok/acceptable?
It's almost as if the Tories don't have a single leadership candidate, for any post, that doesn't have a graveyard's worth of skeletons either in their closet, or dancing a jig on the front lawn.
He was sacked because the affair was made public. Not for committing the deed itself.
Integrity, professionalism, accountability.
Travesty, Decadence, Excrement.
Like Aviator call signs, let's have politicians answer to adjectives like these. I call dibs on Rees Mogg for Excrement
>a Conservative isn't born > >[a Conservative is Excreted](https://i.redd.it/pnpa5cdpbxh41.jpg) paraphrasing Cicero
Mostly the latter.
They do love a three word mantra.
Treachery, incompetence, irresponsibility
Incapable, destructive, twats
Tories - pick 1.
Narrator: They chose none.
Remember when the current chancellor “forgot” to declare his purchase of 7 luxury apartments? https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/18/jeremy-hunt-investigated-breach-money-laundering-rules-luxury-flats
Rishi "forgot" to declare that his wife owns last time I checked £700m worth of shares in Infosys. He also introduced legislation giving that company competitive advantage on the market and put many British SMEs out of business to favour Indian big corporations. Oh and he also kept non-doms legislation and refused to release his wife's tax returns to prove she is paying tax in the UK now.
>Oh and he also kept non-doms legislation and refused to release his wife's tax returns to prove she is paying tax in the UK now. And, to my mind, his wife hasn't provided sufficient evidence that she intends/intended to return to live in India - which is a requirement for the non-dom tax exception she claimed for years.
Interesting fact: you can claim the remittance basis retrospectively up to four years after the relevant tax year. So say you wanted to pay the tax but then something changed in, say (purely an an example) January 2025, you could then reclaim all that tax you’ve paid.
To be fair Lidl was giving away luxury flats with every purchase of baked beans that week.
They were in that middle aisle. He also picked up a blanket, some car mats, and drill
to go with the cat food, the screwdriver box, and the beach ping pong set.
If he had been patient, the following week he could have grabbed a wetsuit, a mig-welder and a bassoon.
I'm surprised there wasn't more a of a deal around the shady phrasing Sunął used at PMQs. I'm probably paraphrasing but it was 'as more information became available (long 5-7 second pause) IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN'. So Sunął straight up didn't say they didn't know, just that the public found out so they had to do something.
Genuinely intrigued as to why you don’t write “Sunak”?
I'm guessing they've got their keyboard set to en and pl in their phone and it auto corrected Sunak to sunął. Unless it was a clever joke. The clever joke being sunął is the masculine third person singular past tense of the verb sunąć which means glide/drift/float Could be a very tenuous joke about Rishi gliding past or into disaster
Because I is next to k on the keyboard, is my guess. I'm intrigued as to why you thought it was anything other than a typo.
Once it's probably a typo, twice is less likely
Oh, I didn't even notice the first one! Many thanks
> I’m intrigued as to why you thought it was anything other than a typo. Because he got two letters wrong and that error was perfectly repeated. As someone has suggested, it’s most likely best explained as an autocorrect to a polish word.
My friend has been doing french Duolingo on their phone and all their chat messages are being autocorrected to be misspelled with accents on random letters. Quite amusing, we all just react with the french flag when it happens
The joys of learning Japanese... those mistakes are *very* noticeable
Oh ofc, thanks for taking the time
that's not an I, it's an l (lowercase L) with a line through it. Polish. Don't quote me, because I'm not Polish and can't speak it, that particular l is pronounced somewhere between a regular l and a w. Like... still an l, but... w. Think of it wike having some pronunciation troubwe, but being reawy wiwwing to recite a wimerick. *That* kind of l. EDIT: I know from having met a Polish guy whose name ended in -sław. He always said it like '-suave'. Thing is, it still *sounded* like an l even though it totally didn't.
Yes I too picked up in the reason being because it’s public knowledge now, not a secret they can get away with anymore
Quite. "Sacked after", not "Sacked due to" or as a result of. "Row over tax affairs" is also a very dismissive and downplaying way of putting what is essentially, if I understand correctly, conspiracy to fraud.
I completely agree. Some news sites are saying Rishi knew of the issue since October. Three guesses on why it took so long to sack him. Inevitably, Zahawi will be back under a new administration like Priti Patel.
He "agreed" to pay his taxes in the end.
As in a-**greed**.
He "agreed" to reach a settlement with his own government. Probably paid enough that the matter is closed and no further investigation is done into his accounts.
Jolly decent of him. I wish HMRC would let all of us little folk "agree" to pay our income tax sometime after the event.
Zahawi has made no apology for his behaviour.
He probably sees no reason to apologise for behaving like a standard Tory.
"Everyone does it!" - criminals about criminal stuff
"Everyone avoids tax when they pay into a pension or an ISA!" - assholes trying to pretend artificial tax avoidance is fine; or even a good thing.
Corruption, Corruption,Hotel,Trivago
\*Asshol protec.... Sorry, ATOL protected! ;)
Of course - if it were the latter* there would be less than 10% of people in power. “Do whatever you want as long as you don’t get caught” is the Tory motto. And of course, the “ethics probe” result will never see the light of the day and there will be no further action because “he is punished!” But fear not, Tory voters - he will be stage a spectacular comeback through some back door.
We have seen this movie before.
I didn't like it the first time.
>We have seen this movie before. More reincarnations than **The Fast and the Furious.**
Giving Halloween a serious run for its money if anything! [https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3503950/handy-chart-lays-halloween-franchises-choose-adventure-timeline/](https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3503950/handy-chart-lays-halloween-franchises-choose-adventure-timeline/) https://i0.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/halloween-timeline.jpg?resize=768%2C954&ssl=1
EXACTLY. How much more do they get away with as a party before they are seen as unfit and we can kick them out?!
Right, how do we get the rest of them investigated? There's no way Zahawi is the only one.
He should have yelled Look behind you! A three headed monkey!
If we’re being honest he should be in prison for tax evasion. We all know how Tory voters feel about “benefit scroungers” right
This country is a disgrace. Overclaim on your tax credits by 100 quid in a year, HMRC will put the hounds on you. 'forget' to pay the amount that Zahawi has, and they don't seem to care wtf.
Not exactly true. HMRC hit Zahawi with a significant fine. The issue here is that the Tories seemingly aren’t that fussed about Zahawi’s dishonesty. And previously didn’t seem to think it should affect his role in government.
The question is whether the fine was worth it. By avoiding paying tax, he was able to use that money to invest in things which have probably performed far better than what he'll pay in fines.
It’s no real question. It’s believed to be about £1.2m on a missed payment of £3.7m (30%). If you know of any legitimate investments that are performing like that, let me know.
> Rishi Sunak and Nadhim Zahawi are both under > pressure over the tax saga (EPA) Mr Zahawi is understood to have paid a £1m penalty as part of a £4.8m settlement over a dispute related to the sale of YouGov shares held by offshore company Balshore Investments linked to his father. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadhim-zahawi-tax-hmrc-investigation-b2269659.html
Not “linked to his father”. Zahawi set up the business in his father’s name precisely to avoid certain levels of tax. He knew exactly what he was doing.
It's "can my parents put their house in my name to avoid paying inheritance tax" level of tax naivety. If he'd just posted on /r/UKpersonalFinance he'd have been told it was dodgy, so I can't believe that someone with access to accountants and advisors couldn't have known.
There was a time when buying up 3.7 million in PPE was an incredibly strong investment with a vastly greater return than 1 million. It's not about whether he did profit it's about them constantly posturing themselves to profit off of all of our misfortune while breaking the rules to do so that they constantly hit us all over the head with. These are corrupt chancing opportunists. And they will never change their behaviour which is great detriment to our society. They sculpt our laws for their own benefit and kick us while we are down telling us there's no money left to build our nation out to support our people.
And all the money that they take out of the economy is money that *should* and *would* be going into public services such as the NHS. That's the worst crime they commit - stealing from the poor to line the pockets of the rich, simple as that.
They don't need legitimate investments. They can back the horse they will make win.
Over what time period? Property easily outperforms that in a short space of time (a few years)
I think you’re wrong. Zahawi has not profited from this. Look, I’m not defending him. We all know that he tried to steal £3.7m from the country. But I think HMRC dealt with it properly. The outstanding question is whether someone who tries to steal from the country is fit for public office. That’s the question the Tories failed. The delay in sacking him has demonstrated the leadership’s views on the subject.
Edit: I'm wrong - read catfish's reply to this. 30% fine could have been for "deliberate and concealed". *** HMRC specifically didn't deal with it properly though. He was fined 30% - that's because a tax mistake that is "careless but not deliberate" gets that level of fine. That's why he keeps saying that phrase - it's tax legalese. But Zahawi put shares from YouGov in an offshore company in his parents name and claimed it had nothing to do with him - but then was discovered it was paying him dividends. That sounds like "deliberate and concealed" to me in that it was on purpose and he hid it on purpose. That is again tax law legalese and for that offense he should get a 100% fine. So HMRC didn't deal with it properly. They made a deal that saved him/cost us millions.
No, you’re wrong. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/penalties-an-overview-for-agents-and-advisers > For example, if: > a penalty arises because of a lack of reasonable care, the penalty will be between 0% and 30% of the extra tax due > the error is deliberate, the penalty will be between 20 and 70% of the extra tax due > the error is deliberate and concealed, the penalty will be between 30 and 100% of the extra tax due A 30% fine can fall into each of those categories. Don’t assume Zahawi was fined the maximum amount for “careless but not deliberate” - that’s what the Tories want you to believe. It hasn’t been disclosed, and HMRC’s Chief Executive stuck his neck out to say that there are no fines for innocent mistakes.
Ahh that's really interesting. Thanks.
> Don’t assume Zahawi was fined the maximum amount for “careless but not deliberate” - that’s what the Tories want you to believe. We can go a step further... If you get the maximum fine that means you didn't acknowledge the error, you didn't cooperate and you didn't make helpful disclosures... The behaviour underlying the penalty relates to the time the error was made. But even an 'innocent' careless error doesn't look good if you followed it up by being uncooperative and resisting disclosures.
They got him on this specific case but how many others has he gotten away with? capital gains is easy to track - you sell shares and there’s a record of it with HMRC. Don’t declare capital gains for tax year they were sold and it’s quite clear there’s an issue. Income & expenses are a different story - much murkier for HMRC to verify and track without consulting with huge number of third parties
Isn't all tax avoidance morally wrong in our society? We seem to focus solely on those that we don't like very much. 10 years ago it was estimated that up to £8 billion a year was being lost in tax receipts from "cash in hand" jobs by trades and service providers. We as a society seem very happy to shout about a small group of people while offering cash to trades people for a cheaper price which in turn allows them to avoid tax and NI payments.
Also the fact that he threatened to sue those who exposed it last year, only for them to be proven totally correct. They have utter contempt for us.
Of course not, because they are all playing the system. So they do not want to create a precedent...
If the penalty for the crime is a fine, the law only exists for the poor.
A fine that’s set at a percentage of the money that was attempted to be stolen is actually quite fair. You’re not going to be hit with a million pound fine for not paying back an overpayment of Child Benefit.
I mean they gave him a £1,000,000 fine. That wasnt the tax bill, that was the penalty he had to pay. So I'm calling bullshit on them not caring.
I think Hmrc did care. I mean he was in a very privileged position so unless it was just driven by him significantly pissing people off Hmrc had obviously decided what he did was very dodgy and they were not going to accept no for an answer.
This case is only public because a tax advocate pressed the issue with Zahawi. You dont need “more”details…the case has already been laid out by him. Zahawi had no answers…thats why he paid the tax and the fine. If it where any other times heads would roll at the hmrc but given sunaks passed dodgy dealing with them and tci funds. I expect he will be sitting on a sphincter as tight as the Tory public sector budget.
I don't think the tax advocate spurred hmrc into looking into this. Seems like hmrc were on this in mid 2021 itself.
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Sure, but is that more or less, proportionally, than the average tax cheat has to pay? And why no *mention* of prison time when that is the constant threat the rest of us face?
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It was £5m iirc
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Ahh I see, that makes sense.
Prison? He hasn’t even lost the whip, let alone his seat. Tells you everything about this shit pm who keeps banging on about integrity
Only the poor people getting money is the problem! The lowley scrounging scum.
As long as you can pay up,you will avoid prison.
Oct 25 : "Sunak: This government will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level." Oct 25 : Outcry over Suella Braverman’s return as home secretary...days after she resigned over security breach. Oct 26 : Charity founded by Jeremy Hunt paid 66% of income to chief executive. Oct 28 : UK government delays clean water and nature targets, breaching Environment Act. Oct 29 : Person who opposed buffer zones outside abortion clinics announced as Womens Minister Nov 07 : (Sunak at COP27) ...diversifying our energy supplies by investing in renewables is ... also a fantastic source of new jobs and growth. Dec 07 : UK’s first new coalmine for 30 years gets go-ahead in Cumbria Dec21 : Newly appointed ethics adviser told they cannot launch their own investgations. Jan18 : Sunak says Zahawi has "already addressed the [tax] matter in full" Jan 25 : Nadhim Zahawi sacked from government after tax row What fresh "integrity" awaits us tomorrow?
You forgot Rishi’s FPN for not wearing a seatbelt, the second pm to receive a fine in office, his second whilst in government
They also forgot that he lied in House of Commons about this.
what did he say?
[https://twitter.com/haggis\_uk/status/1513878458711093254](https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1513878458711093254) "No, Mr Speaker, I did not attend any parties."
The real crime is that we don't get to lock any of this corrupt government up. No power and surrounded by people who'd snap them like a pencil. Now that would be a fitting end to the Tories.
Minor point - the coal mine is going after coking coal for use in metal production aka metallurgical coal. Coal used in power plants is a different grade - thermal coal - which the Whitehaven mine won't produce.
And for which the steel industry say they will have no use, and which another part of the government is funding programs to move to electric arc furnaces. At least 90% would be exported.
British steel and tata steel are about to get £300m each "to help them go green" by 2030 (probably out of business by then, just saying).
The Suella Braverman security breach really gets me. I can guarantee that if lesser civil servants did this, they would be rejected for future civil service roles at the screening stage. Truly a rule thee but not for me. Cunts.
Frightening.
you forgot the bees. Banned pesticides are okay now. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ministers-allow-banned-bee-killing-pesticide-to-be-used-for-third-year-running/ar-AA16KOmQ
Yay the government is now 0.0001% less corrupt! Baby steps in the right direction.
Crucially though it hampers their election operation. Zahawi founded You Gov and has considerable expertise in interpreting polling data. He's a big asset but now will take a less significant role.
>a less significant role ... publicly. They're quite happy to take direction behind the scenes from scumbags who pay them pots of money. There'll be no problem with continuing to work with one who's useful to them.
It's always 1 step forward 100 steps back, I don't keep my hopes up
That assumes that Zahawi is *more* corrupt than the people left. Im not sure id take that bet
The comparison between how much of the letter praises Zahawi versus how much is about why he’s been binned is very telling.
It’s cringey to read. Yes, you misled HRMC. Yes, as the chancellor you didn’t abide by the rules set to every wage earner in the U.K. Yes, you held out paying your taxes and got fined for it. Yes, you tried to stay in government with no shame whatsoever whilst your dirty washing was aired in public. But great stuff rolling out the vaccine program. You should be proud.
Can I just not pay any and only get fired but also stay rich?
For a moment I thought you was talking about Rishi. Most of what you said is also applicable to him except he's never been fined for his and his wife's misdeeds. He did get fined for not wearing a seatbelt however...
That’s just how these letters always are
Just makes Sunak seem even weaker at this point. He delayed and delayed, but has been forced to do something against his will. It would have been so much better for his revamped de-sleazed Conservative government if Sunak had fired him quickly.
Exactly my thoughts. Weak Rishi tried to ignore it but it turned out blatant criminal behaviour - attempting to steal millions from the taxpayer - can eventually force the wet lettuce to appear in public.
To be fair, Rishi was quite busy forgetting about having to wear seat belts and stuff.
He is desperately weak indeed. He is not the most likeable person, and that went against him several times. But he also doesn't seem to have much leadership in him. Johnson had a way where he could confidently do one thing one day, and then confidently execute a U turn the next. In politics, that is a valuable skill.
Everytime I look at him, he looks like an annoying lost squirrel
In the words of Frankie Boyle, he can't do speeches at night in case he gets taken by an owl.
The skinny ties and slim fit suits make him look like he's heading out for his school prom. Pretty sure his ties are ties with a granny knot as well
I think anyone competent saw the polls numbers and didn't want that poison chalice, wait another 5 years for your go at the top spot
That is assuming there is still some talent left. I just do not see it.
they deliberately purged the talent when anyone with any sense didn't back their suicidal brexit charge of the shite brigade.
Look it's gotta be said that whatever he does in whatever timing it's going to bite him in the ass. Their whole idiology is to take from the poor and give to the rich. It's just a ticking timebomb of when it will fail and it appears that the timer has reached zero. Everything that's happening are just symptoms of an idiology that works against the majority of people. We're just witnessing the death of it.
Whole party needs sacked, never has a bigger shower of more corrupt cunts been in power. And yet people still vote for them!
I've no idea where you live, but I live in a Tory stronghold area. There are NHS employees that are staunch Tory voters here in Lincs. I'm fucking stunned by their allegiance and ignorance.
Glasgow. We don't have many of them here, but even one is too many. It's madness, voting to get shat on just doesn't make sense to me.
As long as others get shat on more than them, then it's all good for them. Because they got it worse...
I don't even think they care about it being worse, because there are plenty of people at the bottom who voted Tory too.
Yeah, those are the ones that voted for bOjO, because he was different from the others. And, they wanted a change ┐(´•\_•\`)┌ The same voters say that whilst waiting in a queue for a food bank...
But the amount of food banks increased under the Tories, they’re sooooo caring and compassionate :/
That's why they bang the drum of 'invasion'. There are always *others* to point at, even if it's made up.
It's amazing how they accept getting the pish ripped out then. Govey talking with a straight face, saying the spirit of thatcherism will help the north England. She's the reason vast areas of the country is fucked. I can't believe he wasn't chased out of town.
I’m originally from Lincs and it baffles me that so many there vote Tory.
> I'm fucking stunned by their allegiance and ignorance. No matter how well you try to educate people, far too many idiots will gladly stay ignorant, because they don't want to admit they were wrong. So they end up sticking with bad choices because their pride and ego is more important than facts.
Stupidity and ignorance transcends everything!
_"As you leave, you should be extremely proud of your wide-ranging achievements"_ - What a joke, imagine getting caught for embezzlement at work but instead of getting fired they put you on gardening leave and congratulate you on a job well done.
Wow... I wish I could hope for such a letter if i was sacked. Stating you got caught.But hey, I'll give you a glowing recommendation you can give to your next employer...
This has been reported by the Tax Alliance for over a year now. But, it’s only when the mainstream media finally started hinting at it that Sunak took action. I think that makes it clear why he acted now and it’s not because of the corruption itself!
He acted now not because it’s clear Zahawi did it, but because it’s becoming clear Sunak knew about it months ago, and he’s trying to cover his own corrupt arse.
I mean i knew about it months ago, it’s unbelievable that Sunak didn’t know when he made the appointment!
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/28/sunak-was-warned-of-zahawi-reputational-risk-in-october-say-sources) broke the story yesterday that Rishi was told in October. Can’t help but wonder when the backstabbing and Tory infighting starts to make it into the public sphere
We've not seen the revolving door for a few months now. Kind of excited for another wave of resignations/sackings. Country's going down the shitter but sometimes it's entertaining at least.
Do you remember the media pretty much only quoting YouGov polls at the height of the coup to remove Truss? Hmm.
Bad rich man gets proved being bad rich man so bad rich man has to get rid of him to hide true identity as bad rich man. About sums up uk news lately.
Lately? Replace one of those bad men with a bad women and it sums up the UK government for the past 5ish years.
Broke rules 1, 2 and 3 of the Conservative Party. 1) Don’t get caught 2) Don’t let the public know you got caught 3) Don’t admit you did anything wrong
4. Push for Online Safety Bill to help with 1 and 2 5. Push for bill banning protests if 2 goes out of hand. 6. When you sort 1 and 2, the 3 will sort itself.
[Credit to Russ Jones for this:](https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1619630364674379776) 100 days of Sunak Williamson: sacked Braverman: bullying Raab: bullying Bridgen: lobbying Johnson: corruption Zahawi: ministerial code Sunak: no seatbelt Chester by-election: lost Tax: Highest for 70 yrs Polls: 23% And he's literally the best they've got
Sunak: lied in HoC about parties, IR35 changes to help his wife's Infosys at the expense of British small and medium business (that he also didn't declare she holds over £700m of shares in that company), keeping non-dom legislation and refusing to prove his wife pays tax in the UK now.
Yeah, Sunak's family are stealing an order of magnitude more money from taxpayers than his underlings.
Makes Rishi look weak for backpedaling. Every time these things happen, they should suspend immediately and fire dependent on investigation. Rather than refusing to do anything until public reaction reaches a peak. Not that it'll hurt him in the long run though because everyone votes Tory every fucking time anyway.
He was removed from his cabinet position. He’s still an MP, still in government. He’s not been sacked, just demoted
Sunak tomorrow: I am proud to announce I have appointed Nadhim Zahawi
[his new MP pass picture ](https://i.imgur.com/1dfRdWp.jpg)
Another one bites the dust. Anyone have a tally of how many Tories had to resign or got sacked over a scandal since they've been in power?
I've been trying to do that, the list is a bit further down the thread...
Demoted from Minister without portfolio back to MP is a light penalty and not commensurate with Zahawi political blunder. Still I suppose the Tories might need Zahawi to be PM in a month's time given the total lack of leadership this mateship episode has shown up
Now put him in prison. MP’s have no accountability or repercussions for the shady stuff they do
And let me guess... "This draws a line under the whole thing, so we can move on as a government". In other words, can you all just forget that this is endemic to the whole party and not vote us out?
Is there a reason the Tories wait until the last possible moment before doing anything, surely scandal after scandal there reaches a point where you just amputate instead of letting it fester and then eventually amputating anyway. I guess they don't want to set a precedent because they're all doing it.
Someone made an interesting point which I’d like to share. The Tories somewhat know they’re in the bog; there’s a chance they won’t win the next election (shock Pikachu). So essentially, they’re just grabbing/doing what they can that’s beneficial to them. This then looks bad on the next party who’ll have to deal with the consequences.
This is the same guy who claimed support for paying energy bills - to heat the stables for his horses: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/10/nadhim-zahawi-admits-taxpayers-electricity-stables Clearly the media's fault. Expect him to show up on TalkTV any day now.
Any of us "little people" would have been jailed for doing the same as Zahawi. One rule for them, yet again.
Only took, how many weeks??? Imagine being the boss of the HmRC tax authority and fiddling youre own tax then saying its essentially sound, cant make this shit up.
How many Tories are left now? Got to be close to single figures?
They feed on misery anyway. Each time you get rid of one they feast on the carcass of their former bretheren and multiply.
Well, that's the corruption issue cleaned up! No need to look any further. /s
Don't worry, Tory voters! When things like this happen, which is weekly, nowadays, the person involved normally waits in the wings for 3-6 months until the Tory party have deemed that you will have forgotten (that's how much credit they give you in terms of memory and intelligence) their misdemeanor and then brought back to the fore of politics to carry on deceiving and stealing from you!
This has taken far too long and it's far too late. If there was any decency in the conservative party they would have sacked him instantly. It's what they would expect other parties to do under the same circumstances.
And after a short interval the circus show continues
Why is Braverman still in office if Sunak apparently cares about the ministerial code?
Ah, another morning, waking up to see the news about the stability of the UK government.
At this stage, the Tories can’t help themselves. Rotten to the core.
They don't care, they're only sorry because they got caught
Michael Gove “he’s a friend”, of course you dodgy [email protected]@t. https://goodlawproject.org/update/gove-broke-the-law/
Let’s not forget the integrity that Sunak is bringing back to politics and the Conservative Party. Not sacking Zahawi right away was just carelessness, pure and simple!
Wishi washi Rishi should've fired him in the first instance. He's been forced into this which makes him look more wishi washi than ever.
Took the idiot long enough to sack him he probably knows he might be implicated
I find it disgusting the letter closes out with zahawi being allowed to the backbenches!! wtf is that. hes either sacked or not.
Alternative headline: “Typical Tory MP gets caught doing Tory MP things. Only sacked when made public”
The only thing that can sort out the country out is fresh governance, with a completely open and transparent agenda - The problem time and again is that power corrupts, and corruption thrives in complete privacy and behind red tape. Open source government for the people, demand nothing less.
Can anyone explain what facts have changed since Wednesday when Richi non-dom Sunak was defending his fellow tax dodger at PMQs?
The Tories are cringeing. They wanted Rishi to hold the fort for a couple of years before they wheeled Johnson out of the cupboard in summer 2024. Now he's not even going to last that long.
The never ending parade of Tory sleaze and corruption continues.
Nadeem Zahawi… another in a long line of corrupt tory politicians who gets sacked for doing something awful, and will probably be rehired in the next month. Anyone else remember the whole taxpayer funding of his stables? The guy’s a bloody cretin.
How for the life of me can anybody trust this pathetic government ever again?
Voted conservative all my life, never again, feel stupid
And people will still vote Tory and will continue to even when they are eating literal garbage out of the gutter, because they believe the lie the right wing peddles to them, that if you work hard enough, you too, can become rich like us. They swallow the lie like a fly swallows shit.
Not even an apology from Zahawi. Although he took the time to attack the media for having the audacity to report on something factual. Top tier asshole.
Watch the good people of Stratford upon Avon continue to vote him in again at the next opportunity 🤦
Everyone with a high networth is Evading tax, it's a known fact. he just had a poor tax lawyer.
He will quietly be brought back after what will be deemed a 'reasonable' amt of contrition down time.
Why do Tories U-turn after it was obvious there was going to be outcry for a few weeks. It makes them look weak, indecisive and corrupt. It would have been far better to just suspend him pending investigation straight away, and sack or reinstate him depending on the outcome of the situation. Now it's going to be easily pointed out to Sunak that is honesty and integrity speech was just all talk.
>weak, indecisive and corrupt They look these things because they are these things. All this does is reinforce the fact that they are incompetent as well.
I can't wait to hear Rishi defend this by telling Starmer he sat next to Corbyn...
“Row over tax affairs”? You mean he was caught evading taxes and fined. Tory Scumbag.
No confidence vote. Bypass HoC and have the public do it.
Long overdue,Rabb should have been delt with ages ago ,you cannot lead and display these levels of weakness.
The prime minister says it is "clear that there has been a serious breach of the Ministerial Code" No shit Sherlock! Sacked over a serious breach? Presumably that means that regular breaches are ok/acceptable?
It's almost as if the Tories don't have a single leadership candidate, for any post, that doesn't have a graveyard's worth of skeletons either in their closet, or dancing a jig on the front lawn.
They need to just install a revolving door at this point.
If this was anything more then an attempt at damage limitation, he'd have been fired a week ago.
This makes Rishi look so weak, he is, but he LOOKS it. Starmer told him to jump & he said no at first but later said yes.