Vacuum tube based guidance systems give you a warmer, richer explosion. Now that I think of it, maybe their equipment isn't outdated, maybe the Russian army is just a bunch of hipsters who are into vintage?


well vacuum tubes could be better against something like an EMP. I'm not saying that this is the case, but it is widely known that Western military and Russia/China both have a lot of differences in doctrine and the "why" of a solution or implementation.


Came here to say this about vacuum tubes. A lot of old tech still has uses especially when you're at war and your enemy is only looking for modern solutions against modern problems.


I do not see a vacuum tube. Maybe you see the can capacitor?


Maybe older. Some of the vehicles the Russians had ended production around 1958.


That right there is 1970s tech, you are correct.


I think the chip in the center has a 2014 date code. If that's true these may have assembled from surplus components. Cheap dicks couldn't even use new caps. No wonder they're so finicky.


Oh fuk...no wonder the Russian military is falling apart...blatant corruption which is the primary reason, but wow.


Well they don’t just give away those super yachts ya know.


Now think about the thousands of nukes


No free Press, corruption and shit will grow.


Yep. 1446 should be 46th week of 2014. Interesting to see the tech. Pretty old school but sturdy. Thrugh-hole has a lot of potential to be done poorly. Used to work with a lady whose previous job was soldering for Raytheon. She had to pass several tests to work on a system that went into Abrams tanks.


Can confirm- I used to work at Honeywell Aerospace and had to go through many months of training and certifications before I was allowed to work on systems that went into military aircraft. The work I'm looking at right here, would definitely not qualify as military grade, not even close. Most of those soldered points would be a complete component reject along with the component leads not being bent and angled properly, it's that bad. We're talking Chinese sweat shop is probably better grade.


Overhauled F16 and F35 brakes . Multiple inspections and testing required. Shit was not a joke


Looks like it has conformal coat in some places but not others or maybe that's just RTV, most definitely hand applied. Horrible looking tech.


I'm betting it's just RTV painted on by bush. Don't remind me...I hated the process of stripping and reapplying conformal coatings. Ughh that whole process has to be done in a hazmat suit and respirator.


Welp, I'm gonna get turbo cancer I guess cause I've stripped that crap off with acetone and fiberglass pens without a respirator or gloves.


Shit dude....at least I had dunking baths and a fume hood. Still, that shit's toxic as fuck. I'm sorry.


Sadly when I started electrical assembly on 787's in Charleston I was given 1 week of instruction. 2 days of which were cancelled due to weather. Most of the instruction was on how to use the computer system. Now I wasn't fabricating just assembling technically...but still...sometimes the standards are not as high.


I'm a starting hobbyist and even I wouldn't accept this for my very jankiest of test builds... Those solder blobs are quite a thing. Also, is that a germanium diode?! Those things really shouldn't be used in any modern signaling circuit... And those two legs on the bottom left; are they touching? Are they copper or rusted?! So many questions


No, it’s definitely much older. It has Cyrillic marking which may confuse you. You may google 564ИЕ10В to know more details about this chip. But looks like this chip isn’t anything special: you may freely buy it for less than 10 dollars




It has a SMD chip so it’s probably not more than 20 years old or so. A lot newer than some of their other equipment.


looks more like the 80s or 90s electronics... for Russian standards...


So 60s/70s at Radio Shack?




This is basically commercial grade design from 30+ years ago, except for the flatpack in the middle, which is pretty standard mil IC packaging from that era. That being said, the US stuff of that era doesn't look like this because we had strict military production grade requirements, and the parts were typically only in the higher temperature range packages, and better board production capabilities. I'd hate to have to count on this stuff in the Sahara desert.


Do we often bring these devices into the Sahara?


US stuff is designed for anywhere in the world, because if you end up in a "World War" it could be needed anywhere in the world. The start of the retaking of Europe in WW2 was to take North Africa. That is why the stuff is so expensive. It is made to reliably operate anywhere, not just in a living room or kitchen.


And military standard is double of regular. So a 1/2w resistor would be 1/4w milspec for example.


Ah, I get it. It was just an example of an extreme location.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_integrated_circuit_designation It looks like this is Soviet made. Anyone have a reference with dates for that exact chip?


It's the equivalent of MC14520A (dual binary counters). Most likely made in 2014, according to the date code on chip.


This link is interesting ... https://gigazine.net/gsc_news/en/20200322-soviet-soyuz-space-clock/ A chip from 1984. Definitely wedge bonded, aluminum wire I think. They bought backend equipment from ESEC in Switzerland, or did they make their own? Did they have a wafer fab for making their own chips?


I'm pretty sure they had (and still have) several fabs. Severely outdated by modern standards, but OK for military needs. USSR produced a ton of electronic components including various ICs, most of them copied from western designs.


There's a Russian joke that goes "Soviet chips are the grandest chips IN THE WORLD!" Cuz that's definitely not something to be proud of.


**[Soviet integrated circuit designation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_integrated_circuit_designation)** >Soviet integrated circuit designation is an industrial specification for encoding of names of integrated circuits manufactured in the Soviet Union and Post-Soviet Union countries. 25 years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, a number of manufacturers in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, and Uzbekistan still use this designation. The designation uses the Cyrillic alphabet which sometimes leads to confusion where a Cyrillic letter has the same appearance as a Latin letter but is romanized as a different letter. Furthermore, for some Cyrillic letters the Romanization is ambiguous. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


Intel Pentium is a commercial grade design from 30 years ago. This IC looks like this because it was made in USSR while they still had capabilities to make marginally competitive ICs. Modern Russia-made weaponry will be full of Chinese consumer grade ICs because they cannot make their own and noone would sell them military grade stuff: https://youtu.be/WwI7-oJ8wUs


I'm pretty sure it was made in 2010s. The IC (564ИЕ10В) is the equivalent of MC14520A. "1446" is the datecode, meaning that it was produced in 2014. The packaging is typical for soviet/russian military grade ICs. The resistors look new as well. The soviet ones were typically red with actual text instead of color bands. Diamond symbol, visible on the IC and a capacitor, means "military grade". Source: my dad used to work at a military electronics factory in Kyiv. When I was a teenager, I had a ton of old soviet electronic components to play with at home.


Also, old soviet mil grade boards I had seen looked nothing like this. All of them had red-brown colored PCB and covered with a thick layer of lacquer. Something like this: https://imgur.com/a/t0o6ujS


do their nukes also have this level of "tehnology"?


probably, yes.


If they fire 100 of them off and only 30% hit the target, they are still going to do a lot of damage.


Yeah but if they’re this bad 10% of them might hit themselves


That's still 20% hitting cities


Your also assuming no interdiction ability which is in itself erroneous. NATO has exotatmospheric (Aegis BMD and GMD), THADD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) as well as the better known Patriot, a lot of it. Covering both Europe and North America. Just NATO allies own outright 110 Patriot batteries for use in countering cruise and similar types of missiles. No one looks for nuclear but America has been putting systems in place since the early 90's and is now very advanced in this field. I bet it is all deployed and ready. The President hinted as much in his speeches yesterday.


> Your also assuming interdiction ability Fixed it for you. https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/30/15713966/ballistic-missile-attack-department-of-defense-pentagon-north-korea https://www.newsweek.com/how-us-could-shoot-down-russian-nuclear-missile-it-cant-833457 I've seen several retired US military personnel say the same on CNN. The US has made it clear in recent years that it **cannot** stop a determined nuclear missile attack from Russia. They might get lucky with some older ICBMs, but anything more modern is basically impossible to stop for now. It's why diplomacy is so important.


I don't know how true their statement is though. I feel like they'd want to keep it a secret just how much they could stop.


I dunnoninkinda see it both ways...since the name of the game is entirely deterrence you want them to know you can stop them so they don't even bother trying. The pint of the game isn't to trick them into feeling over confident and launching just so you can counter it and kill them. This is a are no one wins no matter who launches.


I was expecting "you're" when you said you fixed it for them.


Fuck me, you're right. I totally missed that!


I always do that. When your typing fast it is an easy mistake to make. But this is one I confess I have been guilty my entire life. I tell people it is due to the fact my first undergraduate education is as a mathematician and physicist not an English major but I simply never got this one straight in my noggin. On the other hand my first job post grad was "Nuclear Risk Assessment" (HQ FC HD). So whatever opinions people may have I know what I know.


North Korean IRBM have a 20% success rate, and they're recently built. They haven't been sitting in shithole silos, rotting and rusting for half a century. I would start with the figure of 20%, subtract unmaintained losses, subtract intercepts and you get a figure in single digit percentage. That is still capable of killing a billion people, but don't kid yourself with 30%. A nuke is a spacecraft. It has to be really carefully kept and maintained. And so far, Russian army has been semiliquid soviet era shit and cannon fodder


Yeah, they have to reach the target as well. No telling how many missile battalion commanders siphoned off rocket fuel to sell to third parties, just to line their pockets. They may have even stripped some parts, just to keep their regularly used shit somewhat operational.


Definitely yes.


Those are more reliable. They have Tubes


Nukes delivered through a series of tubes


Save this thought Cotton, it is a great title for a series of books and movies. Seriously.


In all fairness, US ICBM’s are reportedly still running their software on 5 1/4” floppy disks.


I thought it was 8 inch floppies? https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/10/air-force-finally-retires-8-inch-floppies-from-missile-launch-control-system/


Depends on who’s measuring and the temperature.


Could be 10, hard.


The US and Russia really only care about the subs. The old minutemen are located by now and bombers are vulnerable.


The issue isn’t that the technology is old. It’s that it’s questionably put together. Look at those solder joints…


Can’t hack a floppy disk


*Steve Wozniak has entered the chat*


hopefully they malfunction at launch


I'm thinking silo implosion and everything fucked up in what was supposed to be a launch diameter.


Yes, and most of them would work flawlessly. I don't get why people are acting like this stuff was designed by morons.


That's the thing I don't understand. NATO is worried about Putin using nukes, when all visible evidence suggests that Putin's military infrastructure that is used regularly is hit or miss as to whether it will work - why should we assume that his nukes, which up until now, most would have believed would not be actually used due to mutually assured destruction, have not been subject to the same level of corruption, poor maintenance, and poor construction. TLDR: If a good chunk of their cruise missiles, which are not a weapon of last resort like nukes are, don't work - why are we all worried that their nukes even work?


Can't still underestimate their nuke stockpile. Those in Russian navy submarine"boomers" aren't prone to cannibalism. Those are the real problems. Though the latest ones on deployment must have a fast attack tailing them anyways, but one cant be sure.


Fair play, I hadn't considered sub based nukes.


Because I don't want to play Russian Roulette with hundreds of thousands of lives at once? And Putin gets to decide on how many pulls of the trigger? *Brr* No. Then it becomes a question can we kill him before he finds the ones that do go *Pop*.


It only takes a couple to work to fuck up the entire world. if only 5% work that is still around 26 ICBM's. that is the loss of 26 major cities like Paris, London, New York, LA, Madrid, Rome, and possibly 100's of Millions of people. Not just form the blast but from the aftermath. We should not be so cavalier about this threat.


Because even one functioning nuke can have a unimaginable death toll. So let's say one 10% of their nukes work, that are still like 300 rockets. If all are send to America, that strike will obliterate anything bigger than some podunkt town of 100k inhabitants. Shit, I cannot find lists online that even list the 300th city by size.


It's been said that up to 60% russian rockets are malfunction. When it comes to nukes, 40% is still huge.


It only takes one that works....


Nah, you need more than 1 or it will be countered. The main question is can we counter all of them. Even if 60% won’t explode if they’re able to get into the air and drop on their targets they might as well be live. That being said I’d rather burn than let Putin control the world with his empty threats.


A good number of years ago when the Mig-25 foxbat was fairy new .. Russian Pilot defected to Japan with one .. The russians demanded it be returned and it was in good time, In many crates .. News report at the time said it was basiclly 2 large jet engines with a seat and Tube Radio strapped to them !! So much for vaunted russian technology !! I guess they still can't make a miniature circuit board !!


Tubes are great for EMP protection. So they have a purpose.


Tube and early circuit boards put an end to what could have been a very effective bomber .. the B-58 Hustler !!


The Tubes in the Mig-25s radar also allowed it to have an astoundingly powerful radar system... no necessarily a good radar, but certainly a powerful one.


And, purely as a machine, i do like that foxbat. The engines on that thing are nearly comical so huge.


Way obsolete today radar cross section of a barn door !!


Oh it is absolutely obsolete. I just think it looks cool.


Holy. It looks like someone raided the hobby section of a local RadioShack.


Back from 70s


For the real world .. The russians were still using tubes then !!


They used analog computers in their BUK medium range surface to air missile systems in the 1980s.


The digital computers, as far as guidance is concerned, do mainly the same thing, just take higher tech levels to do it. Analog computers can be built using discrete semiconductors and some know-how that has only been kept alive due to the use of analog computing for silicon neuronal networks. Digital ones too, but they’ll be way too heavy and have too many failure points. And anyway, if the thing hits the target well enough, nobody gives a damn what computer guides it.


The 1870s


Before the battle at Techno house.


I served in the Detroit-Chicago rave wars.


if it still works, send it back to them 😂👌🏼


TO work need to BUM,no BUM not working,


Many make a BUM during lunch but not on its target.


That is the way.


The fact that it didn’t explode shows that it doesn’t work


yeah, that foto really shows if it was launched or found in a stockpile


This looks like something discarded in a salvage yard decades ago.


This looks like shit. Shit PCB, shit soldering, WWII grade passives, no comment on the IC, and the wire holding the cap looks like mounted by some 4th grade kid


The thing was designed in the 70's or early 80's and build in the mid 80's and early 90's, what would you expect?


People to be better at soldering if it’s their job.


I had seen some actual soviet military-grade electronics made in the 80s, and this looks way worse qualitywise.


I can smell the furniture that's in the background of the 1970s catalog this was ordered from


Woah slow down on the surface-mounted tech there guys. Might want to check the ESR on that cap too!


IC is a dual 4-bit counter. Cans on the right are likely relays (no part number visible to confirm, but the shape and the copious amount of diodes nearby make relays the most likely).


I haven't seen diodes like that on anything that wasn't older than I am (36)! Could be challenging to find replacements. I can't tell from the photo if the shiny stuff north of the IC is flux or stray solder. If solder, whoever did this sucks. The insulation melted on the wire coming out is not a great indication of a high-quality job. But at least they used gold band resistors?


Russian stuff is weird. This is definitely modern (< 20 years old) for a Russian system, though it's poor compared to Western standards of even 50 years ago. Older Soviet stuff from the 70s is usually brown circuit boards and the resistors are green or red-brown with the resistances stamped on them. They'll occasional mount the resistor perpendicular to the board and bend the tail over and around. To top it off, they'd cover the boards in a really thick layer of shellac or epoxy to keep it all in place.


Those Russian electrolytic capacitors short out over time. That would explain part of their failure rate.


All electrolytic capacitors short out over time, it's one of the more common failure types.


Some glue Some Tetris parts and it flies but not far


You'll find glue in a lot of modern stuff too, and plenty of it. Mostly to hold down electrolytic caps and large indicators so they don't fly off when exposed to vibration.




For a better understanding. My Atari 2600 or heck an E.T. Cartridge has better transistors and higher quality work/components. I bet the cracks on the solder is the stuff of nightmares if someone tried to repair this stuff.


Really old electronic components.


Majority of military equipment is built like that. Pretty dumb, but it can withstand a lot of abuse. Rocket can be dumb, but it flies and it kills. Do not underestimate the danger of those “dumb” things. Chip in the middle is 4bit counter.


I don't know what military electronics you have seen, but I actually worked on military electronics and the only things that look like were built before the 70s and even then the craftsmanship was better.


Ex-Soviet/Soviet equipment.


Ok, that makes sense.


Maybe caps will get rusty and leaky after 50+ years besides that an old & simple electronic circuit is perfectly fine for a simple task. Even if they don't explode on contact they are still very dangerous and bind a lot of personnel to remove them.


That was my first thought. A lot of people don't understand 'good enough for the job' or maybe they forget about it. Over engineering is bad. Complexity creates more things to fail. It probably does look like shit to an expert, but does this design work 99+ times out of a hundred? As I said in an earlier comment, I have had point to point guitar amps from the 70s that work great and are rugged, and amps from 2010+ that work great but I have to be more careful with and not bang around as much to make sure the more complex circuit boards don't break. I'm not an electrical engineer, but from my experiences having to have stuff repaired for a lot of money.


Here's an excellent short legend about "good enough": https://pages.mtu.edu/~djbyrne/does_memory_leak.html Why spend all that time and money fixing and recertifying your software when you can just double the memory?


hahaha ultimate memory wipe


Yea that sounds romantic but that ain't true in most cases.


`564ИЕ10В` I googled that, admittedly I don't speak russian but that looks like an ancient shift register and if so, holy fuck... From what I gather tpd <= 330 ns, which is an absolute joke by any standards, what a piece of rat shit. The whole thing looks like the it has been soldered by hand by a 13 year old with a 40 year old soldering iron. Which very well may be the case actually.


Components. American components, Russian components, all Made in Taiwan!


If it explodes, does it matter how the electronics looked?


Problem is that 60% of the time it doesn’t.


No, the problem is that 40% of the time it still explodes.


I'd say the problem is that they don't explode the second you try to fire them xP


As long as you want it on target I suppose.


If you want to spread terror everything is a valid target. That is the problem here. This whole campaign is not about precision strikes, but pure terror.


The only problem Ukrainians aren't afraid of it, just getting angrier.


"Russian components, American components, all made in Taiwan!"


If it flies, it flies.


Steve Jobs would not approve of that soldering quality. Neither do I. I worked 2 years in a lab doing micro-soldering on ceramic prototype boards with silver leads, and I am very particular about clean boards. That is just pure shit.


To those unaware of the underwhelming performance and build of the MIG-25, as a fanboy of the Foxbat, I just want to add some nuances: The last aircraft designed by Mikhail Gurevich himself, who is the "G" in every "MIG". Still the 2nd fastest serially-produced aircraft ever, after the SR-71. Any aircraft faster were not produced in enough numbers to count as serially-produced. Currently the fastest serially-produced manned aircraft currently in use. It had 3 major weaknesses, 1 cultural, 2 technical: 1. Instead of using titanium-aluminum alloys, it was made mainly of stainless steel. This extra weight severely impacted it's performance. 2. The engines theoretically could hit over Mach 3, but that would damage the engines, so they kept to mid-Mach 2, usually. 3. Produced just after a major shift in nuclear war strategies. Instead of high- and fast-flying nuclear bombers, low and slow bombers became the tactics du jour practiced in the event of needing to drop a nuclear weapon. Lacking a look-down/shoot-down radar, it struggled to be able to engage these targets. It was made with vacuum tubes, not solid state electronics, but that was less of a weakness than it may seem. As a nuclear bomber interceptor, tubes are resistant to EMP radiation, a useful trait if it must face nuclear strikes. In addition, they are far more robust, and did not need the same environmental controls like solid state did. It was an exercise in unrealized potential. That fits with what we see here today, and during the Soviet times. The wikipedia page for the Foxbat is a great jumping-off point if anyone gets interested.


I mean an IRBM (or even an ICBM) doesnt need a lot of computing power. Everyone gets the impression that they are some high tech weapon, but the physics behind ballistic missilies it are very basic. The Ariane 5 actually still runs on 1997 electronics - not because ESA cant afford an upgrade, but because it's just not necessary. The tech gets the job done and is reliable.




How many AA batteries does it require




I only soldered that badly when I was like 8 years old.


Heathkit is back with cruise missiles


Radio Shack ?


That's an 8-bit counter IC, probably this circuit is a timer. I believe the diamond symbol on components means military grade. Don't see any kind of coating though. Soviet-era military and aerospace electronics was always covered with thick lacquer. You could put it under water, it would still work.




Everyone is making fun of the old PCB's wiring...etc.. You have no idea how much the infrastructure around the world still looks and currently runs on this Old/Radioshack looking equipment in even the most well developed countries. Not eveything needs to look like the innards of an iphone to function properly.


My lawn sprinkler is more hi tech


Looks like a 1982 RCA tv


Looks like junk


We put men on the moon with far less computer power than your current laptop. If it works and is hard enough to withstand the job then it's not obsolete.


Given the PCB style and solder joints, diodes, caps...etc 1970's shit right there. Hell, they probably use floppies for the targeting still.


Looks old and dodgy. But, old technology doesn't mean it is terrible, especially if it has proven to be reliable.


There’s a video on YouTube called Putins palace and it really gives you the sense of how him and his friends have rapped that country for every penny they can.


A lot of military shit is very old tech. That is by design. Its reliable, it's proven and it's easier to keep a supply running. And if it ain't broke..spend the money on something else. I know someone who worked on refurbishment for American ICBM's. The blue prints were still all on paper. In 2010 they were still pulling old dusty blue prints out of the basement. The labels on the parts were printed using a specific printer that used the old school tape ink. You know like a typewriter. This person actually had to spend time hunting down all the remaining ink tapes in existence so they could keep work going on the refurbishment jobs.


So a former coworker of mine worked on a missile project with a Russian engineer. Their team had all the power requirements carefully balanced up to standards when their client asked for an extra guidance antenna. They were too far along to start over so that's where the Russian came in. He looks at the blueprints and starts crossing things out, bypassing filters. He hands the plans back, completely hacked up but with additional antenna. He says, "you designed this missile to operate for 20 years. Missile operates for 20 seconds then blows up."


A 70's hammer will still hit a nail.


what do you exepct to be used?


Holy. It looks like someone raided the hobby section of a local RadioShack.


Don't shit on Russian processor and electronic design. There is a reason why Intel grabbed up 600 Russian engineers in the early 2000s. The superscalar processor design which is sparked the rise of the personal computer in the 90s is directly attributable to Russian invented designs. Look up Vladimir Pentovski... yeah Pentium baby. Designs like this are built for simplicity and reliability. Especially in what are considered mission critical applications. The U.S. also uses a fantastic array of analog parts because they don't rely on foreign microprocessors which potentially have built in backdoor, faults, or intelligence implications and they are cheap. Please remember kids, primitive does not mean ineffective.


60% of their aerial missiles have failed to reach targets and failed to detonate. I think upgrading and storage might be playing a big part in their ridiculous fail rates.


Maintenance of physical components not electronics. Fuel systems, detonation systems, and control surfaces when not maintained properly lead to what we see... not the electronics. It was the same story when ICBMs were being repurposed as launch vehicles. It was mechanical failures from lack of maintenance that scrapped so many rockets the program died. Plus we're used to western thinking in terms of reliability and precision as in "it gets where I want and goes boom everytime. We spend more for it". Opposed to Eastern thinking of "it doesn't kill our guys launching, it usually gets close and detonates. We send more for it ".


Um... More like "More likely to cause more of their deaths than ours on launching." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa\_radiation\_accident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident)


Then why 60% of rockets miss?


What about?


Steampunk mizziles.


Dont knock it because its old.. The Americans sniggered at very old valve technology in Migs at one point untill it was pointed out to them ( after the USSR collapsed ) that unlike American cockpits , the migs were EMP ( nuke detonation ) proof..


Cool Steampunk.


When you can consider a C64 as Future technology


Does it say Made in China anywhere? If so, this invasion will end even sooner.


Send that straight to the US Department of Defense+


So they can have a good laugh?


1960's space age junk, this is old and out of date even in comparison to the Apollo computers


I'm pretty sure that the majority of rockets that take people into space are from the cold war era, the only exceptions i can think of is SpaceX since they have their own rockets.


Haa my Toilet is more technical


This technology is from the 70s