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that ever part kind of rubs me the wrong way. id say until there has been fundamental changes to the system, but punishing an entire nation and all of tgeir future children doesnt help anyone. that kind of mentality was a large part of why ww2 could happen such a short time after ww1.permanently isolating people only radicalises them, and absolutely nothing more.
Banning them from the Olympics doesn't hurt the normal Russian citizens, but it definitely takes away a lot from the government. It's something that happens once every 4 years, if someone relies on it for their entire lively hood then they need to rethink things lol.
Now if you are an athlete, then this could hurt you, but it's not like they are going to just stop training their athletes. Russian athletes are owned/sponsored by Russia, they will probably continue their training as normal (except for not attending the thing that happens once every 4 years).
It would be really dumb, even for Russian standards, if Russia got rid of their athletic programs just because they couldn't do one of the Olympics.
Edit: also, the Russian government treats their citizens like property, there is no way to punish Russia without the Russian government letting it affect their citizens.
Germany is still prosecuting Nazis for their participation in the holocaust all these years later and is the first example people point to when we talk about countries making huge cultural changes to reintegrate into western society. When Russia starts to show the same dedication to right the wrongs and rebuild trust, then we can talk about letting them play hockey and shit.
I don't know why this comment got so many downvotes. The word "ever" leaves no possibilities, even if those possibilities are remote. Russia (in its current incarnation) absolutely needs to be banned from sports. The country should be treated like a pariah in every way. However, if the Russian children of today become the Russian adults of tomorrow that overthrow whatever murderous oligarchic regime succeeds Putin - AND AFTER REPARATIONS HAVE BEEN PAID TO UKRAINE - then maybe Russia can rejoin the world.
Void argument.
That is like catching a child murderer/rapist and arguing that he shouldn't be punished because other rapist previously got away with.
Maybe US athletes should have been banned for bombing civilians in Hanoi 50 years ago, but we cannot change the past, and we should start doing things right at some point. Now we can do it right and ban Russia.
I never said they should be allowed to international sports. I meant to talk More about the other countrys like you said usa. Because i see everyday Things about russia and ukraine where i think, so many other countrys did it or doing it right now so why is it now bad? Also i think you are right we should Do the right thing now. And sorry for my Bad english
While Russian and Belarusian athletes competing in a fair tournament is better than fighting/supporting in an unfair war.
However, allowing Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete is opening up possibilities for propaganda. The IOC shouldn't be used for this as it is against its values.
This shouldn't be any discussion topic.
Excellent argument. And please -- remember why he says we should not allow them *back* ... let us not forget the ruzzian cheating with the secret lab at the Sochi Olympics and their state-run doping program. They were never really adequately banned/barred after what they did. We should not let them get away with this latest atrocity.
Yeah the idea of Russian athletes participating in the Olympics greatly aggravates the absolute crap out of me. If shithead doesn't want to participate in a civil society then the people he's responsible for should stay home. Grrrrrrr. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
It never has.. they have been caught cheating multiple times, and now they kill opponents.. we shouldn't let them be a part of the world for 100 years.. enough time for them to either fall very far behind humanity and advance their humane ways or be nice.. knowing their stubbornness, they will choose... potato..
It shouldn't even be a question whether or not Russians can enter international sports events. Sport suggest respect. Something Russians lack. After decades of doping, where Russians women had a bigger moustache than I do being a male, and Russia killing innocent civilians in Ukraine today, I'd say it is time to close the door. Not only on sports events but any alliance, event or collaboration. Isolate Russia.
In ancient Greece wars were supposed to be paused during the Olypmic Games. Russia has used the modern games as an opportunity to start / escalate wars (look at the timings). Before drastic changes happen in Russia any readmittance into any competition would be an utter perversion.
This doesn't work either.
Ukraine views any cease fire as an opportunity for Russia to rest and rebuild. Ukraine can't allow that.
In order to 'pause' the war for the Olympics we are going to need a cease fire. Not going to happen.
Not that i ever expected any modern war faction to act like ancient Greece. But how Russia acts against the core principles of the Olympic Games is still striking.
The IOC is corrupt as hell, and desperate to kiss autocrat butt, because there is growing public pressure in democracies to stop wasting money on for-profit sporting events. So don't expect them to do anything.
The US/EU/NATO countries should get together and announce that they will boycott if Russia or Belarus are allowed to participate.
They won't, but the should.
Ban all Russian and balarusians from the Olympics Don't allow them to use this as an open stages to preach how good they are while at the same time killing raping Ukrainians The Olympic committee has said they don't want to return to the same boycott as during the Cold War. This is not the Cold War. This is real war. People are dieing. There's nothing more pressus than life, freedom, and health
Russia has distorted the spirit of the Olympic Games since the 1950s, training professionals with state funds and presenting them as “amateurs”. Plus their doping programs - exposed as early as the 1960s.
It’s naive to believe the sports are about what athlete is better. It’s about what athletes have the most support and the better drugs (that beat the drug tests)
100% agree. As a tennis coach I find it sickening that everything is normal for Russia. Their players can travel where they like, and if a country bans them the governing bodies fine them millions. The ATP and WTA harp on about inclusion and fairness. All they care about is revenue. No Russian should be allowed to travel internationally.
No. Let russian athletes in. Let them win
Then play Ukrainian anthem instead of their shit.
And mock them into ground, mock their nation and culture while they are on stage.
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Hard to argue with that.
They shouldn't be allowed on ANY world stage (sports, the arts, etc etc) from here on out....ever...
that ever part kind of rubs me the wrong way. id say until there has been fundamental changes to the system, but punishing an entire nation and all of tgeir future children doesnt help anyone. that kind of mentality was a large part of why ww2 could happen such a short time after ww1.permanently isolating people only radicalises them, and absolutely nothing more.
Banning them from the Olympics doesn't hurt the normal Russian citizens, but it definitely takes away a lot from the government. It's something that happens once every 4 years, if someone relies on it for their entire lively hood then they need to rethink things lol. Now if you are an athlete, then this could hurt you, but it's not like they are going to just stop training their athletes. Russian athletes are owned/sponsored by Russia, they will probably continue their training as normal (except for not attending the thing that happens once every 4 years). It would be really dumb, even for Russian standards, if Russia got rid of their athletic programs just because they couldn't do one of the Olympics. Edit: also, the Russian government treats their citizens like property, there is no way to punish Russia without the Russian government letting it affect their citizens.
Germany is still prosecuting Nazis for their participation in the holocaust all these years later and is the first example people point to when we talk about countries making huge cultural changes to reintegrate into western society. When Russia starts to show the same dedication to right the wrongs and rebuild trust, then we can talk about letting them play hockey and shit.
I don't know why this comment got so many downvotes. The word "ever" leaves no possibilities, even if those possibilities are remote. Russia (in its current incarnation) absolutely needs to be banned from sports. The country should be treated like a pariah in every way. However, if the Russian children of today become the Russian adults of tomorrow that overthrow whatever murderous oligarchic regime succeeds Putin - AND AFTER REPARATIONS HAVE BEEN PAID TO UKRAINE - then maybe Russia can rejoin the world.
what about other countries that did the same or even worse?
_Whataboutism intensifies_
Void argument. That is like catching a child murderer/rapist and arguing that he shouldn't be punished because other rapist previously got away with. Maybe US athletes should have been banned for bombing civilians in Hanoi 50 years ago, but we cannot change the past, and we should start doing things right at some point. Now we can do it right and ban Russia.
I never said they should be allowed to international sports. I meant to talk More about the other countrys like you said usa. Because i see everyday Things about russia and ukraine where i think, so many other countrys did it or doing it right now so why is it now bad? Also i think you are right we should Do the right thing now. And sorry for my Bad english
While Russian and Belarusian athletes competing in a fair tournament is better than fighting/supporting in an unfair war. However, allowing Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete is opening up possibilities for propaganda. The IOC shouldn't be used for this as it is against its values. This shouldn't be any discussion topic.
Excellent argument. And please -- remember why he says we should not allow them *back* ... let us not forget the ruzzian cheating with the secret lab at the Sochi Olympics and their state-run doping program. They were never really adequately banned/barred after what they did. We should not let them get away with this latest atrocity.
Yeah the idea of Russian athletes participating in the Olympics greatly aggravates the absolute crap out of me. If shithead doesn't want to participate in a civil society then the people he's responsible for should stay home. Grrrrrrr. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
It never has.. they have been caught cheating multiple times, and now they kill opponents.. we shouldn't let them be a part of the world for 100 years.. enough time for them to either fall very far behind humanity and advance their humane ways or be nice.. knowing their stubbornness, they will choose... potato..
It shouldn't even be a question whether or not Russians can enter international sports events. Sport suggest respect. Something Russians lack. After decades of doping, where Russians women had a bigger moustache than I do being a male, and Russia killing innocent civilians in Ukraine today, I'd say it is time to close the door. Not only on sports events but any alliance, event or collaboration. Isolate Russia.
In ancient Greece wars were supposed to be paused during the Olypmic Games. Russia has used the modern games as an opportunity to start / escalate wars (look at the timings). Before drastic changes happen in Russia any readmittance into any competition would be an utter perversion.
This doesn't work either. Ukraine views any cease fire as an opportunity for Russia to rest and rebuild. Ukraine can't allow that. In order to 'pause' the war for the Olympics we are going to need a cease fire. Not going to happen.
Not that i ever expected any modern war faction to act like ancient Greece. But how Russia acts against the core principles of the Olympic Games is still striking.
The IOC is corrupt as hell, and desperate to kiss autocrat butt, because there is growing public pressure in democracies to stop wasting money on for-profit sporting events. So don't expect them to do anything. The US/EU/NATO countries should get together and announce that they will boycott if Russia or Belarus are allowed to participate. They won't, but the should.
What about only allowing russian athletes to participate if they sign a declaration explicitly condemning the invasion of ukraine?
Ban all Russian and balarusians from the Olympics Don't allow them to use this as an open stages to preach how good they are while at the same time killing raping Ukrainians The Olympic committee has said they don't want to return to the same boycott as during the Cold War. This is not the Cold War. This is real war. People are dieing. There's nothing more pressus than life, freedom, and health
Yeah... you wanna participate? Wear striked Z sign
Then they go back to Russia and unexpectedly fall from a balcony.
That's gonna be a bit hard as most Russian Olympic athletes have ties to the state and or military.
That might be the point. But still, I don't think the Olympics operate this way.
You don't say. This is factual information, not opinion.
This is my opinion. We should ban all Russuan and Balarussuan sports people in all sports
Countries are preparing their athletes for the possibility of cancelling their games in France.
Russia has distorted the spirit of the Olympic Games since the 1950s, training professionals with state funds and presenting them as “amateurs”. Plus their doping programs - exposed as early as the 1960s. It’s naive to believe the sports are about what athlete is better. It’s about what athletes have the most support and the better drugs (that beat the drug tests)
100% agree. As a tennis coach I find it sickening that everything is normal for Russia. Their players can travel where they like, and if a country bans them the governing bodies fine them millions. The ATP and WTA harp on about inclusion and fairness. All they care about is revenue. No Russian should be allowed to travel internationally.
No. Let russian athletes in. Let them win Then play Ukrainian anthem instead of their shit. And mock them into ground, mock their nation and culture while they are on stage.
time to drop a moab on the kremlin
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Everybody contact NBC and tell you will boycott them if russians participate. Money talks, they'll listen.