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muddylegs

They’ve said that whilst not allowing trans girls in, they do allow trans boys and non binary students, because they’re committed to single sex education for girls. That’s transphobic in every direction. Preliminary 'bad news' tag added, but luckily it looks as though a lot of people take issue with this so we might see this update to their policy reversed? It would be a great precedent if single-sex schools are required to admit trans students. Not that it should even be a debate in the first place...


mglj42

There has been a concerted effort in the UK to portray the single-sex provisions in the Equality Act as applying to sex assigned at birth and to therefore justify the exclusion of trans people. This has even gone so far as to claim that the Equality Act mandates discrimination against trans people. This reading seems to have little support among experts in equality law but that hardly matters if enough people come to believe otherwise. Sadly I think that’s the case here. A legal challenge brought by a trans girl who was rejected because of this would allow the legality of it to be tested but at the moment this could still fail. An errant judge (similar to what happened in the original Bell judgement) could still cause a lot of damage before it is reversed (a minority view does not mean no one holds it). There is also the issue of the EHRC which Truss has nudged away from promoting equality and which could encourage discrimination against trans people, something they have in fact hinted at.


pkunfcj

If you don't defend your rights you haven't got them.


Souseisekigun

This post is a perfect encapsulation of the chaos that is common law.


Wisdom_Pen

Allowing other Trans people would possibly avoid one part of the act but would than make them in violation of other parts so yeah it's BS.


Raichu7

Or get rid of single sex schools altogether, if they didn’t exist already and someone proposed the idea today they’d be crucified for sexism and it’s good for kids to interact with many other kids of all genders. Single sex schools have always seemed a weird idea to me.


Standbymemes

I went to an all girls school and found it to be quite nice, I was then a lesbian, now trans masc and I know this is sexist but it was quite nice not to be exposed to the daily sexism and sexual harassment that I see as a teacher in a mixed ap school today. I know the answer isnt to hide the girls away but I did enjoy the experience.


Pesto_Power

I wonder how many trans boys would *want* to apply for an all-girls' school (except out of desperation), and it's super weird that those schools actually call trans boys "trans boys" in the first place, rather than "girls who think that they are men".


smity31

To be honest I don't think they would apply for this school. I think that part is in there because they cannot legally kick out a kid for coming out as trans while a student there.


fightyoursorrow

Well this isn't a judicial review waiting to happen at all. Equality Act clearly states blanket bans are discriminatory.


m3ntallyillmoron

I feel like if you have to specify what you've done hasn't broken the equality act, it probably should have broken the equality act


Wisdom_Pen

I've studied that act multiple times and it DEFINITELY breaches it. Though whether or not the government acts on it is a different question. Equality Act 2010 Part 2 Chapter 1 section 7 and Part 6 Chapter 1 section 85


avalanchefan95

So basically they're using the fact that in the UK you can't legally change your recorded sex on your birth certificate to justify this? wow That's something. I'd like for someone to squeeze herself in there under the "now I'm 18 and have a GRC" and see what they say.


[deleted]

Their claim to be supportive of trans students is such a blatant lie. Aside from the open discrimination against trans girls, consider trans boys and NB children. If they're already out, GDST knows they wouldn't be applying to an all girls' school anyway, so they can basically say whatever they need to regarding the law and the outcome is the same. If they want to come out at school, they're in a single-sex environment without any visible trans representation around them and with a school governance that has shown itself actively hostile to trans people. Very few trans people would chance coming out in that situation.


ArrzarrEnteria

No word of a lie, one of the thoughts that stopped me coming out when I first realised I was trans was "I can't be a girl, I'm in a boy's house"


pandamarshmallows

They’re definitely not allowed to do that. Single-sex schools have to treat students as their chosen gender unless said student transitioned while attending that school; in which case they have to let you transition but can keep their single gender status.


muddylegs

From what I recall, schools can keep single gender status even if they admit cis students of the opposite sex! There are boys schools in the UK which offer certain GCSE courses to girls but are still single gender schools, and single gender schools with mixed sixth forms. Feels much less like an effort to preserve status, and much more like an attempted justification for discriminatory practices. I think a lot of TERF rhetoric is spreading to education.


Wisdom_Pen

It may happen but Equality Act 2010 Part 2 Chapter 1 section 7 designates Trans people as a protected characteristic and Part 6 Chapter 1 section 85 designates that no one can be denied admission to a school based on a protected characteristic. On top of that Gender is a protected characteristic too so actually any single gender school is inherently already breaking the Equality Act 2010.


muddylegs

Independent schools aren’t held to the same duty of equality standards that public services are (which I think is ridiculous). Schools are already only held to certain equality standards- they can deny a student based on age, even though that’s a protected characteristic in all other areas. I don’t think it’s justifiable at all, but independent schools might believe they have less responsibility to comply with equality standards. Legally this doesn’t seem to be the case in this scenario, luckily.


Grouchy-Education292

Technically true, but the same could be applied to female-only/male-only/under-Xyo/over-Yyo events/services if you take the law that literally. This would be ridiculous. If a school states they are single sex, then it is fair to say genetic sex should be used and being prejudicial against intersex individuals would be a messy grey area. If a school states they are single gender, then admitting a male assumed gender to an all female gender school (or visa versa) would be wrong and being prejudicial against non-binaries would be a messy grey areas. The point here is the terminology, should either single sex or single gender schools exist in the first place is an interesting point, but if they are private institutions rather than public funded institutions then ultimately while it may be distasteful to some, it is probably not a breach of the equalities act. Now if they refused to employ someone based on their trans status, that would almost certainly be an absolute breech of the Equalities Act.


pandamarshmallows

> On top of that Gender is a protected characteristic too so actually any single gender school is inherently already breaking the Equality Act 2010. No they aren’t. There’s a specific exception for single gender schools. Schools are also allowed to split classrooms by gender so long as both classes are taught to the same level.


kafka123

This is going to sound horribly TERF-y, but imagine there would be *some* justification for this if it's a school that *doesn't* do that and puts girls in intimate surroundings together and the amabs haven't physically transitioned at all or fully socially transitioned and the trans person in question is undergoing male puberty and/or the trans person doesn't have much evidence behind their transition. But it's a stretch.


Wisdom_Pen

Equality Act 2010 Part 2 Chapter 1 section 7 and Part 6 Chapter 1 section 85 would disagree with you Cheryl Giovanni!


Charlotte_Star

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/141344/the-anti-trans-crusade-is-an-affront-to-our-belief-in-liberty when even Tom bloody Harwood thinks you're wrong, you might be wrong, stopped clock and all that.


eoz

I feel if you're gonna piss off anyone while standing on shaky ground it should definitely be parents with enough money to send their child to an expensive private school for 7 years


ringpip

my school was a gdst school. I was a trans guy there, and there were others who were the same or non-binary (afab). hate the bloody place


lizardld

So was mine. I wasn't out while there though, and no other trans students were. We barely had any students out as gay or bi even. Miserable seven years that was


ringpip

we had a lot of LGB people, probably over half of our year wasn't straight. I didn't come out but there was someone in the year below who did and they said it was a miserable existence. I had a shite 3 years there.


Moon-CEO-of-soy

I will be honest the attempt of solidarity with trans masc people and enbies while still affirming them as 'girls' making that solidarity meaningless is slightly funny in the morbidly odd and disturbing way. Given how raunchy and out there some private girls schools are (source : anecdotes from randos ik) I guess we should be lucky that trans predators in all girl schools isn't the new anti trans fuss to get kicked up.


sophieludders

That is insane


tryptagui

What the hell? Literal TERF raising schools... fuck me


Upvotefairy69

Get rid private/public schools


Zoemaestra

I get what you're saying but I hate how public school in the UK means it's a private school lmao


heretoupvote_

This will 100% go through. I know single sex schools. They will do this, or make their lives a living hell.


OneCheesecake1516

I read about this last week and my immediate thoughts were there would be a very good chance of success should the ban be challenged. My other thought on the proposed ban would be what are these schools' position should an individual enters the school as a girl and then declares themselves to be Transmale.


Portable-Wing-Wang

Single sex schools should be outlawed, they serve no benefit but to the patriarchal system we are all subjugated under.


heretoupvote_

They’re discriminatory in the same way a ‘single race’ school would be


Portable-Wing-Wang

Segregation is just a terrible way if running a society at any degree


[deleted]

[удалено]


Duck_Mud

>So it’s perfectly mine for FTMs but not MTFs. >I’m so sick of the way men are treated as second class citizens in this country Nice slip in of the ole "trans men aren't really men" transphobic point there bud. Feel I need to make it clear that just as trans men can be transphobic towards trans women, trans women can be transphobic towards trans men. And you just did that! Congratulations! Plus the forcible inclusion of trans men in womens only spaces is traumatising for its own reasons. Trans men aren't fine in these spaces - not because of some magic predisposition to us abusing others, but because the fact that (mainly white) cis women have been raised with a percieved entitlement to touch other women's bodies, and when you mix that with the added foil of trans men often feeling unwelcomed or being seen as exotic these spaces have the potential to run rife with trans men being sexually harassed. Not to mention the forcible inclusion of trans men in womens only spaces is incredibly uncomfortable just on the basis that they are for women only. Trans men have different needs to cis women. Even pre-T trans men have wildly different needs. This is the issue with the arguments for single sex spaces; they claim to include trans men yet fundamentally exclude us by not bothering to learn the things we need differently. And this is just from the binary trans man experience; i'm sure any AFAB nonbinary people would be able to clearly explain why the same is true for them. Also, men being treated like second class citizens? debate


ixis743

I never said FTMs have it easy but I am so sick and tired if the constant attacks against MTFs in the media, like we’re all just predators. That combined with the fact that’s there’s so little support for men’s mental health. Whenever there’s a MTF competing in ‘women’s’ sport the world goes nuts over it. But FTMs? That’s fine. That’s ‘empowerment’.


Duck_Mud

>Whenever there’s a MTF competing in ‘women’s’ sport the world goes nuts over it. But FTMs? That’s fine. That’s ‘empowerment’. What the fuck are you spouting? Trans men are not suddenly allowed entrance to the sport that aligns with our gender, there was [that whole fucking story last year about a trans man forced to compete against women in wrestling.](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/06/01/trans-wrestling-mack-beggs-texas-sport-changing-the-game-hulu/) Once again; **the forceful inclusion of trans men in womens spaces is as transphobic as the forceful exclusion of trans women from women's spaces**. You need to seriously address the transphobia you have against trans men, it's causing you to spout bullshit you just assume to be true.


ixis743

So you found one story. I could find ten in a few seconds on Google able MTF sportswomen. Never did I suggest that the forceful inclusion of trans men into women’s spaces was not transphobic. Never. I’m not sure what gave you that idea. Nor did I suggest that trans men don’t exist. That society pretends that they don’t exist is another question… My issue is with societal norms that overwhelmingly single out trans women as an ‘issue’ and a danger to traditional cis female spaces, as if we’re all predators.


Duck_Mud

>So you found one story. I could find ten in a few seconds on Google able MTF sportswomen. And you could have found the one story I did after seconds googling it too, but you didn't. Instead you assumed that you knew the experiences of trans men in sport, because you assumed that those experiences were celebrated instead of trans men facing harassment and threats when they get involved in sporting events. I found that one story after seconds. I know a lot about trans women in sports; I have argued multiple times in multiple different subreddits against multiple different people about how there is absolutely no scientific evidence for an increased level of performance past two years of HRT for trans women atheletes. I also know about the cases surrounding intersex olympians being damned for naturally high testosterone levels, and about the New Zealander trans woman who didn't even place in the Olympics. Because I care about the subject of trans people in sports and research it. I understand how trans women are treated in sports. You fail to even show any sign of wanting to understand how trans men are treated. >Never did I suggest that the forceful inclusion of trans men into women’s spaces was not transphobic. Never. I’m not sure what gave you that idea. Maybe the bits where you constantly implied or outright stated that "FTMs" have it easier, or are celebrated? Maybe those bits? >My issue is with societal norms that overwhelmingly single out trans women as an ‘issue’ and a danger to traditional cis female spaces, as if we’re all predators. OK, this conversation started when I mentioned to you in your original comment that the forceful inclusion of trans men in women's spaces was transphobic. At which point you decided to go off on some drivel about trans men being celebrated in sports and trans men having it easier when it comes to societal transphobia, and at one point even bringing up how you never hear about protecting cis men from trans men? You have been trying to make false equivalences this entire time when they have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. I am telling you that you hold transphobic views on trans men based on what you have commented. You keep jumping from topic to topic, refusing to take a single thing I say in because you have to be "correct" when you don't even know the basics about how trans men are percieved in sports, let alone by general society. Even in this comment you started it by saying "oh so you're saying trans men have it bad? Well I can find way more examples where trans women have it worse.". OK? Congratulations? I'm talking about the forcible inclusion of trans men in womens spaces. If you don't want to hear a trans man talk about the inherent transphobia in the forcible inclusion of trans men because you'd rather talk about trans women; just say it.


ixis743

Fine. We’re both entrenched in our positions. Let me just ask you this. Where are the J K Rowlings attacking trans men? Where are the LGB Alliance equivalent groups that are explicitly targeting trans men? Where are the Liz Truss equivalents sprouting hate about trans men? Or the weekly Daily Mail articles about schools seeking to a accommodate trans men? No one is suggesting that being trans doesn’t fucking suck in this county. Just that one side is accepted (even if ignored) and the other is not.


Duck_Mud

>Where are the J K Rowlings attacking trans men? [Here's JK Rowling's tweet calling people who menstruate (including trans men and nonbinary people) women](https://mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1269382518362509313?lang=en).Plus a vast majority of her essay was about "young girls" being "seduced" by the "transgender craze". Yes it did target trans women too, but to act like it completely ignored trans men is idiotic and, you guessed it, transphobic in its erasure of the transmasculine experience. >Where are the LGB Alliance equivalent groups that are explicitly targeting trans men? I'm sorry, do you think the LGB Alliance doesn't target trans men? > Where are the Liz Truss equivalents sprouting hate about trans men? [Liz Truss denying healthcare to under 18s and refusing to update the GRA does impact trans men too, y'know.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2020/09/10/liz-truss-no-plans-to-change-access-to-trans-youth-healthcare-in-gra-reform/?sh=3fb555d54577), oh and there was that entire ["only women have cervixes" thing that government ministers were spouting in September last year.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406) > Or the weekly Daily Mail articles about schools seeking to a accommodate trans men? See this is the bit where you have to understand transphobia for trans men is different. I don't know if anyones ever told you this before, but it tends to revolve around infantilisation. One specific way this manifests is the idea that trans men will regret transitioning in some form or another; as we are viewed as mentally ill women we are seen with a significant inability to fully comprehend our decisions. One way the Daily Mail specifically has helped perpetuate this transphobic narrative is by, well, posting stoties of trans men who regret transitioning! [Like this one](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6351711/amp/Hemel-Hempstead-transgender-man-60-regrets-gender-reassignment-surgery-11-years-on.html), [this one which focuses heavily on the mutilation of the female body, something often presented as the ultimate sin for trans men (and is also a big reason why so many trans men want to remove nipples entirely during top surgery)](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7738323/amp/Woman-regrets-transitioning-says-considered-CUTTING-breasts-pair-scissors.html), oh and [they wrote about this same woman multiple times](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7731427/amp/Woman-reveals-shes-living-female-unhappy-transgender-man.html), [heres a video on a woman saying it was the "worst decision" she'd ever made (re; transitioning).](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/tvshowbiz/video-1514331/Transgender-woman-expresses-regret-transitioning-male.html), [heres another, again hyping up the idea that trans men specifically regret transitioning and regularly detransition](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7541679/Hundreds-youths-gender-surgery-wish-hadnt-says-head-advocacy-network.html), [here's Diana again](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9280379/DIANA-THOMAS-spent-six-decades-man-does-say-trans-militants-stoking-intolerance.html). Oh, actually! You asked where trans men's JK Rowling is, right? Her name is Abigail Shrier. [Here's the Daily Mail article on her transphobic drivel](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9106895/ABIGAIL-SHRIERS-investigation-exploding-numbers-girls-wanting-change-sex.html). Oh my, would you look at that! Her book infantilises trans men! >Just that one side is accepted **Trans men aren't accepted by society. Suggesting as such is transphobic and erases the experiences of trans men. How many times do I have to tell you this for it to stick.**


Zoemaestra

Thank you for this.


ixis743

Also trans men are men. But society doesn’t share that view apparently. But it tolerates it. The same is not true the other way around.


Duck_Mud

>But it tolerates it. **Single sex spaces which are clearly gendered for women forcibly or passively including trans men is just as transphobic as them forcibly excluding trans women**. The forcible inclusion of trans men into these spaces is traumatic and transphobic. Trans men are often times sexually abused in an effort to turn us from confused girls into either lesbians or perfectly fine straight women. There is no tolerance for trans men in the way that you seem to be framing. We are not left to exist, we are targetted for conversion and abuse. Just because you have not heard of this does not mean it doesn't happen; if anything the lack of awareness is a design feature. Trans men do not exist. Abused girls do. Every trans man in the eyes of society is an abused girl. So don't fucking tell me thay society tolerates me when I known from first hand experience it does not.


ixis743

So where are all the news stories about ‘protecting men’s spaces from trans men’? The narrative is always about trans women. About women’s spaces.


Duck_Mud

You're not listening to me. Of course you're not; because you don't want to understand what i'm saying. You can either comprehend it about your own experiences, or you suddenly stop caring. You're right; there is no narrative about protecting men's spaces from trans men. **BECAUSE THIS IS NOT WHAT THE DISCOURSE SURROUNDING TRANS MEN IS**. Maybe if you listened to a single trans man at any point you'd know this, instead of just assuming you understand our issues. The issues trans men face, and the discourse surrounding us, is infantilisation and fetishisation. We are either confused girls, or cuntboys. There is no inbetween for us. The moment we are outed we lose any sense of masculinity. This is why we are not seen as a threat, and this is why we are forcibly included in women's spaces. This is where trans men face harm. I never brought up trans men in men's spaces. That isn't the discussion. The discussion is about trans men being forced into women's spaces. You have a serious issue with how you approach and care about trans men. You are transphobic towards trans men, plain and simple. Your own transgender identity does not change this. I just wanted to make that as clear for you as I could.


ixis743

You’re not listening to me either. Where is the daily media hysteria about reports of private boys schools banning trans men? You say the discourse around trans men is infantilisation and fetishisation. Well being seen as a fetish is a HUGE issue for trans women and is a big part of the TERF narrative. Have you heard of chasers? Men (and some women) who fetishise trans women? And cross dressing itself is often seen as a fetish. The fact that you say society does not see trans men as a threat proves my point. And if you don’t think trans women don’t risk harm when forced into men’s spaces then you are very much mistaken. We both agree that MTFs and FTMs are valid. I am not a transphobe. My point, as it was in my first comment, is that MTFs are openly attacked in the media as a threat to women, while FTMs are not. I never said FTMs don’t face an equally challenging set of issues, just that society doesn’t put on a target on their back. I really don’t see how any of this makes me a transphobe.


Duck_Mud

>Where is the daily media hysteria about reports of private boys schools banning trans men? This is an example of you not listening. **TRANS MEN BEING FORCIBLY INCLUDED IN ALL GIRLS SCHOOLS IS TRANSPHOBIC.** Was that clear enough for you? Did that help get the message across? >Well being seen as a fetish is a HUGE issue for trans women and is a big part of the TERF narrative. Again, you're not listening. I never said trans women aren't fetishised: I was talking about how the specific combination of infantilisation and fetishisation impacts trans men. Again, instead of listening to the perspective of a trans man on issues of transphobia you have twisted this to center yourself. It is clear you cannot feel empathy for the transmasculine experience without twisting it to be about trans women. This is an example of you being transphobic towards trans men. >Have you heard of chasers? Are you implying trans men are not victimised by chasers? Countless trans men on FTM porn subreddits have spoken about unsolicited messages wherein cis men talk constantly about rape fantasies and misgendering kinks. Chasers do not just target trans women, and the way in which they target trans men focuses on infantilising us. Again, had you listened to me throughout this conversation you would see the way that infantilisation and fetishisation as a combined package harm trans men. You refuse to, and must understand everything through your own personal lense and if anything *asking a trans man if he has "heard of chasers" shows how little you interact with trans men*. Trans men are heavily victimised by chasers. Again; you assume our experiences without even knowing the basics. >The fact that you say society does not see trans men as a threat proves my point. No it does not. Because your point finishes there. The reality is trans men are not seen as a threat, **they are seen as something to threaten**. If you ignore the second half of that it sure does seem trans men got a sweet deal, but thats not true. It is also only emblematic of the experience of white trans men, as black trans men have spoken at length about going from being viewed as bitchy women to instead being viewed as dangerous threats. Again, if you took even a second to understand the perspectives and experiences of trans men you would know how wrong you are. The fact that I have repeatedly tried to explain this to you and your continued efforts to ignore it is another example of your transphobia towards trans men. >And if you don’t think trans women don’t risk harm when forced into men’s spaces then you are very much mistaken. I have never even implied this. You seem to have a habit of imagining arguments i've made and arguing against them, instead of actually reading my comments and understanding what I am saying. >My point, as it was in my first comment, is that MTFs are openly attacked in the media as a threat to women, while FTMs are not. Correct, the issue is this next bit; >I never said FTMs don’t face an equally challenging set of issues, just that society doesn’t put on a target on their back. Not only is this completely false, but you're just lying. You directly said that trans men are celebrated when engaging in sports, and when I showed you that was not true you changed the conversation to be about how trans women are attacked more. You made a concrete statement that was proven false. You ten decided to ignore that and start arguing about something completely different. Also; **MEDIA ≠ SOCIETY. SOCIETY STILL TARGETS AND HARMS TRANS MEN. TO SAY THAT SOCIETY DOES NOT PUT A TARGET ON OUR BACKS IS WILFUL IGNORANCE TO THE TRANSMASCULINE EXPERIENCE**. Which is why you are transphobic towards trans men. This entire time I have tried engaging with you and explaining to you where the issues for trans men lay, and this entire time in return you've tried to make this a tit for tat. There is no tit for tat. This is not a discussion about who has it worse. If it were we'd be having a dogshit discussion because the experiences of trans men and trans women **cannot be compared**. They are entirely different systems of abuse based on different stereotypes and different forms of attack. It would be like arguing apples as oranges; both are fruits, but they are far from the exact same.


Zoemaestra

Girls schools have existed because historically it has been harder for women to get an education. Women's sports exists because without it, women would not have a place to compete. Women's spaces exist because they often get pushed out, spoken over or ignored in spaces with men. It's fine to be mad at transphobia but having a knee jerk reaction against women's spaces as a whole is pretty misogynistic. Men are absolutely not treated as second class citizens in the UK and to suggest that is embarassing and absolutely laughable.


transtifa

lol cmon


ixis743

So you deny that FTMs don’t face the same level of transphobia as MTFs?


transtifa

What’s the purpose of asking that question or creating that division?


Bingo_Callisto

>I’m so sick of the way men are treated as second class citizens in this country, like they’re all potential sex predators. Oh, behave 🙄 Edit: and (cis) men commit a LOT of sexual assaults. Though I'm guessing you'll try to deny that?


ixis743

So do women.


Bingo_Callisto

In *vastly* smaller numbers. Do you have any other disingenuous zingers?


Zoemaestra

When sexual offiences are 90%+ committed by men, "so do women" comes off as another knee jerk reaction in defence of men when they are the ones committing the vast amount of assaults. It's not at all comparable.


ixis743

Have you not followed the Maxwell case? Also as someone who has been sexually assaulted by a women (twice actually) I say fuck the statistics. People are people. That can be good or bad. It’s not decided by gender. But in this country, I feel that society will overwhelmingly white-knight women who are innocent until proven guilty. But men must prove their innocence.


Bingo_Callisto

>Have you not followed the Maxwell case? You saw news reports about a single case, congratulations. >But men must prove their innocence. Oh stop whining.


ixis743

Oh stop dodging my point. History is replete with men falsely accused of sexual harassment and worse. Some never got justice. You’re just perpetuating the social ideal that all women are intrinsically innocent and incorruptible. That they must be cuddled and protected from everything born with a penis. That’s where these news stories are coming a from. It’s the same people who shut down trans clinics because they think they’re protecting children. Where are all the news stories about FTMs infiltrating boys schools or men’s sport? Where is the hysteria surrounding FTM athletes competing in men’s competitions?


Bingo_Callisto

>Oh stop dodging my point. I've addressed it head-on. I think I was pretty clear about it being bullshit. >You’re just perpetuating the social ideal that all women areintrinsically innocent and incorruptible. That they must be cuddled andprotected from everything born with a penis. I'm saying that men commit more sexual offences than women. It's pretty simple. I dunno where you're getting that elaborate nonsense from.


Bingo_Callisto

>Have you not followed the Maxwell case? By the way, I meant to ask: I'd be fascinated to know what you think the Maxwell case was ultimately about. Yes, she was found guilty of sex trafficking charges (and will hopefully spend the rest of her life in prison). But please, tell us *why* she was doing those awful things. Who was she doing them *for*? Who was perpetrating the physical abuse on those victims? I look forward to seeing you try to wriggle dishonestly out of that.