T O P

TIL that the NFL made a committee to spread misinformation and coverup brain damage in their players

TIL that the NFL made a committee to spread misinformation and coverup brain damage in their players

spriteshouter

The movie ‘Concussion’ nearly made me get sick at times with how they conveyed the damage caused by so many hits on players over years. Years and years of your brain crashing into your skull, have mothers in the US gradually been more against their kids playing?


Full_Ninja

That movie even cut stuff out to make the NFL happy. Want to see the whole story check out PBS Frontline league in denial


FX114

Here's some info on that [https://deadspin.com/how-sony-changed-concussion-to-make-the-nfl-or-their-l-1749686299](https://deadspin.com/how-sony-changed-concussion-to-make-the-nfl-or-their-l-1749686299) https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/sports/football/makers-of-sonys-concussion-film-tried-to-avoid-angering-nfl-emails-show.html


EagleCatchingFish

Is that the Frontline piece from 2011 or so? There's one from that time about high school football. They're finding that the small scale brain injuries don't take years to show up; they are measurable within a single season.


Stratiform

I'm a dad in the US. My son is still in elementary school but he's a tank and decades ago would've been heavily pushed into playing football. Turns out he's also quite the talented soccer and lacrosse player! I've adopted enjoyment of these sports too and will encourage his continued participation in them, and them only, because I mostly just value how well his brain works. Sports are for fun. > *Edit: Hey, maybe send me 40 more comments about how head injuries can happen in other sports because I'm obviously unaware of this. Head injury can happen in *any* activity; the point is it is *very* common in football, even at lower skill levels. Other sports are not as high of a risk. I grew up watching and playing football. I will never encourage it. It is not worth the risk.*


vankirk

One of my good friends switched to disc golf after suffering 3 concussions playing lacrosse. It's an anecdote, but just be aware. In addition, Abby Wambach will be donating her brain to research after hitting the ball with her head for 15 years. Brandi Chastain and Rose Reilly have also pledged. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/former-soccer-stars-join-first-all-female-cte-study/


AMC_Tendies42069

I played semi pro lacrosse and had to quit after 7 count em, 7 concussions in 2 years.


Alonminatti

Wlax is really one of the most dangerous sports out there and no one recognizes it


AMC_Tendies42069

We survived on creatine and painkillers lol


Alonminatti

Hahahaha fondly remember my days as a goalie on the men’s side of the equation. Black and blue legs hitting squats was a nightmare. Thank god for my adhd or I’d be addicted to everything under the sun


Raccoon_Full_of_Cum

During a high school lacrosse game, my teammate was involved in a collision that broke his nose by denting his facemask into it. He was totally fine (outside of the nose) and actually didn't even want to come off the field after the hit, but I've literally never seen that happen before, in any sport.


assholetoall

My guess is an old cage that had rusted joints and a really hard impact. Or one that has been deformed and bent back. I've seen something similar with a hockey helmet cage bent enough to touch someone's nose. Player's helmet, never seen it with a goalie helmet.


Raccoon_Full_of_Cum

I have seen it with a goalie cup once though. Specifically, my brother's. He bought a titanium one after that.


assholetoall

Honestly the double cup is the way to go. It's a thing. It is awesome.


Raccoon_Full_of_Cum

How many hockey players do you know whose massive balls could possibly fit inside of two cups? Most can barely fit into one.


Liquor_N_Whorez

I've seen some odd things on reddit before and this uname/discussion combo is friggin priceless! Thanks!


haydesigner

Screen name checks out?


assholetoall

That's why you need a goalie cup. They were only worn by goalies because they are sized for our massive balls (even relative to other hockey positions) and nobody else is used to that much swinging meat between the legs.


Thorhees

I didn't know about this! One more reason to love Abby Wambach.


Scrilla_Gorilla_

Some of my friends used to play ball golf but switched over to disc because it’s much more fun, and you know, all the babes.


SweeterThanYoohoo

Lol there a good groupie scene for disc golf?


FrostyManOfSnow

and (almost) everyone on the course is at least a little high or drunk! makes for a great community


IzzyMandelbaumJr

Gotta bring some tall cans and blaze one at every bowl hole.


biggyofmt

Cheaper too


taseru2

Lacrosse is definitely a more dangerous sport once you get up to the faster higher level play such as in high school but in youth lacrosse most “big hits” are banned. The real danger is getting hit in the head with a ball which helmets are designed to absorb. Football is uniquely dangerous because every play you get a sub-concussive blow. Soccer is also changing its rules at the youth level to disallow heading. I’d love to see them develop “helmets” for soccer players to take the damage out of the game.


jetsintl420

I captained my high school lacrosse team and played DE/TE in high school football and there’s absolutely no way that lacrosse is as dangerous as football at that level when it comes to head trauma. In football we would literally line up and just smash into each other and for hours at a time every day for months. There’s nothing like that in lacrosse and a ball to the head is nothing like repeated helmet-to-helmet blows. Edit: apologies, I think by “a more dangerous sport” you meant across the spectrum of all sports, not compared to football. It’s probably mild CTE from the hits killing my reading comprehension.


worthlessburner

Important thing to note is that the prevalence of concussions appears to be much higher in female soccer than male soccer, so might not be fully applicable to his son but it’s important to consider if you have daughters that want to play soccer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Chazzey_dude

[Frolf](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/RibbitKing.jpg)?


unforgiven91

that was my first thought, too


fingerscrossedcoup

>Frolf We just call it an excuse to get stoned outside


durtmcgurt

It's actually encouraged to call it disc golf, Frolf sounds goofy and unprofessional.


p3t3or

Yeah, my kids won't be playing football. I was 6 in the late 80s and we were rewarded for helmet to helmet contact. I know that is a no-no now, but you tend to just have parents coaching in many places and they don't really know any better.


Osoroshii

Check out Head Games on Amazon Prime. It talks about the CTE issues with a great deep dive into much more than Football. Surprise, Soccer is the second-highest sport with CTE cases.


Eldie014

Regarding soccer and some other sports, I have seen a suspicious amount of articles about concussions that all seem to imply that football is just one of many sports that come with concussions. Knowing the NFL, I would bet there is a concerted effort to muddy the waters and redirect attention. Said that, in the case of soccer, an easy change would be to stop keepers kicking across the mid field. That would prevent the hardest and most pointless headers.


mr_burrito

You want to see a sport org that covers up injuries and concussions, look up Sumo injuries. The JSA refuses to even have doctors out ringside, and wrestlers aren't supposed to have help leaving the ring, even if they're so concussed they can't stand up. Happened recently, full on head bonk, dude was out like a light. No Doctor came to help, he had to get up on his own and keep fighting.


accountsdontmatter

Keep him from heading the ball - they are finding now in the UK about players getting brain damage from that.


handsometooth

So much this. My son can play sports! My son will not play football. You need your brain for stuff.


Qwez81

Honest question, what do you do if he asks to play?


swole-zabrak

Son, you will be a punter.


Qwez81

Lmao best gig in the NFL, you can play into your late 40’s


KingBubzVI

Tom Brady: *laughs*


Qwez81

As a life long Buffalo Bills fan in my 30’s.....fuck that guy Gotta respect the goat, but fuck that guy


bassinine

also tom brady: crumples at even the sight of an unblocked defender.


Raccoon_Full_of_Cum

Smart business decision, honestly.


KingBubzVI

He avoids big hits, it’s why he’s playing healthy in his mid 40s. Honestly more QBs would do better to play more cautious like Brady. RG3 definitely would’ve had a much better career


SophisticatedVagrant

I understand the point you are trying to make, but it loses steam when you consider the man has more Super Bowl wins than any franchise. Can't argue with results.


VRenior

He can bring back bare foot kicking


Bladechildx

Long snapper that's a 10+ year career and you don't get hit.


theCrownedRoyal

If someone put in the time and effort into just punting that other players put into their positions they would have an infinitely higher shot of making it to higher levels


cereal_after_sex

Son, best I can do is cheerleader.


Suddenly_Something

*Antonio Brown's foot has entered the chat*


BeesPhD

Son, you will be the back ups backup quarterback


PrailinesNDick

Those are the guys that get murked all day in practice. Any football player will tell you practice is the worst.


WookieOTY

If you’re a runningback or receiver and practice is tackle yeah it can be rough. But even then it’s not usually tackle just to prevent that. But oklahaoma drills are rough


skj458

I think how much of practice is "full contact" varies greatly from program to program. When I played in high school a little.over 10 yrs ago, we had full tackle practice 3 times a week during the season, we played games on Friday, had full pad, full contact practices Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and then a non-contact walk-through day they day before on Thursday. QBs were the only ones protected. Scout team running backs got smashed constantly.


MyHonkyFriend

Ill tell mine no. I know his cousins will play and my brother coaches, but no. That same brother who coaches had 4 concussions in HS football and 3 more since then as an adult and a whole heap of problems. . . but he still coaches and his sons will play. . . but not mine.


Icangetloudtoo_

Say no. It’s pretty easy to explain. You value your kiddo’s brain too much and there are dozens of other sports to play.


Gemmabeta

What do you do if he asks for a pack of cigarettes?


tmartin_04

Make him smoke a whole carton, Hank Hill style


Alan_Smithee_

What any decent competent parent would do.


RigasTelRuun

Make him smoke the whole carton.


vector_ejector

Get him a carton of Rothman's?


Alan_Smithee_

Yeah, I’m sure that’s it.


theknyte

Buy a pack of Unfiltered Luckies, and make the kid smoke them all in one sitting?


handsometooth

I tell him no. I'm responsible for him until he's an adult.


FuzzeWuzze

There is a lot of potential for brain damage at higher level(High school+). Basically when they start allowing heading of the ball. Its only now really being treated and cared about(somewhat) properly at the professional levels in Europe.


Solar_Plex

Are kids not allowed to head the ball anymore at younger levels?


WaywardVegabond

They are allowed, just typically they are not good enough.


Solar_Plex

Sorry the phrasing kind of threw off. I do know my towns recreational league doesn’t allow heading under I think 8 or something. Also I am wondering if heading at a younger age also poses more danger than say an older soccer player. In my time playing I can remember coaches stressing us needing to head the ball and not let the ball head us. As ridiculous as it sounds there is definitely a right way (or at least less immediately painful way) to head a ball. If you are younger you have less experience and could more easily hurt yourself. Then again the velocity of the ball is definitely increased as you get older and getting drilled in the head is getting drilled in the head.


FuzzeWuzze

Yea my guess is the rec league isnt part of actual the US Soccer Org so they can do whatever they want. But kids who are playing at a higher level club soccer would be prohibited from doing it.


FuzzeWuzze

Actually they arent for kids under 12, atleast in the US. Not even in practice. [https://www.usclubsoccer.org/head-injuries](https://www.usclubsoccer.org/head-injuries)


FuzzeWuzze

I was slightly mistaken, its not Highschool, but anyone under 12. 12 and 13 year olds in 12 and 13-U can do like 25 headings a practice. https://www.usclubsoccer.org/head-injuries


sealdonut

Stick to lacrosse (pun intended). Soccer is showing signs of being nearly as bad as football once you start doing headers at every practice.


Solar_Plex

Reminds me of the practices my coach would make us run down a line of our teammates and have them throw balls at us to head back. Nothing like having a bunch of teen boys pelting soccer balls at each others heads and telling us if it hurts we’re doing it wrong.


d_valle_

Your couch seems like a lot of work. I just sit on mine.


Nakedwitch58

Is there a thing where a lot of old retired soccer players are obviously brain damaged? Slurring words?


[deleted]

No. Not at all.


HalonaBlowhole

I have seen more people go lights out on a lacrosse field than I have on a football field. Lacrosse is inherently as dangerous head injury wise as football. (Men's lacrosse) Soccer could be cleaned up by simply outlawing headers.


CtothePtotheA

Safest sports are golf and tennis in my opinion. Baseball isn't too bad but you can still get hit with a ball really hard in the head.


Fournier_Gang

[https://www.espn.com/espnw/news-commentary/story/\_/id/14037403/heading-soccer-ball-equals-football-tackle-force-study-shows](https://www.espn.com/espnw/news-commentary/story/_/id/14037403/heading-soccer-ball-equals-football-tackle-force-study-shows) Here's the link from several years back. I'm shocked as well.


dutch_penguin

Even basketball has a significant amount of head injuries per year. [link](https://www.aans.org/Patients/Neurosurgical-Conditions-and-Treatments/Sports-related-Head-Injury) > estimated head injuries treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms in 2018 Cycling: 64,411 Football: 51,892 Basketball: 38,898 Soccer: 26,955


EdmontonEuler

Looking at ER visits is a good measure of the risk of serious head injury *while playing*, but it doesn’t tell you anything about the long-term effects of the sport. The cumulative effect of many sub-concussive impacts is also a concern.


EtOHMartini

The problem is also the rate, to some degree. Cycling is high because *every* kid bikes, so the absolute number of head injuries is high.


baconandbobabegger

True but the end of the list is: Playground Equipment: 38,915 Playground is also the #1 for under 14 as well.


verrius

As someone who played soccer as a kid...the only thing shocking about this is that it took this long for people to start reporting on it. I remember hating header practice because it tended to make me feel dizzy and made it hard to see straight for a bit after heading the ball. Now I feel sort of vindicated for being "bad" and trying to make sure I never actually headed it in-game. At least in football you have a helmet.


apokhilypse1

Right but that’s still much rarer than a football head collision.


DarnHeather

My daughter is a college soccer player and has played from the age of three. I did not let her head a ball until she was 18. It in no way held back her career.


IamSkywalking

Whoa, cool! Can you say a little more about how this went? Did she resist at all? What happened as she got to a level where headers occur regularly? Did any of her coaches know about it? How did those conversations go? I love hearing stories like this, someone going outside the norm and having great success. Probably wasn't nearly as difficult as some of us might imagine either..... ​ Cheers!


helander

If your kid wants to play something like American football I highly recommend rugby. I played both as a teen. Rugby is way safer than American football. None of my football coaches taught me how to tackle safely, none of them taught me how to take a fall safely, or avoid injury. That was all on day 1 of rugby. I experienced way less Injuries in rugby. Yes of course there were some, but nothing horrific like in American football.


Stoutish_Goat

Yea idk why the way you tackle in rugby isn’t heavily taught everywhere else. The rules on tackling are stricter in rugby and there’s no equipment so I guess that’s why, but it definitely wouldn’t hurt to teach these kids playing football that there’s a safe way to tackle that avoids injury to both the tackler and the person being tackled (unless you do it wrong, then someone gets injured)


Awwfull

Correct tackling is important but the design of the sport itself (which I love to watch) is part of the issue. Banging heads at the line of scrimmage. Zone coverages on pass plays leading to higher impact tackling. Risky acrobatic catching. Going for the first down/Stopping the first down. It being a game of inches which causes more collisions. The list goes on. Rugby may have some of these elements, but in football, it's every play.


gregaustex

>have mothers in the US gradually been more against their kids playing? From what I see, yes definitely. Some still play, but lots of parents try to steer them away, which is a big change vs. the past.


SqueezyCheez85

My boy is still really young, but my wife and I have told each other that we wouldn't let him play football when he gets older. The risks just aren't worth it.


gotham77

Instead of “Concussion,” I recommend people watch the Frontline 2-hr documentary “League of Denial.” It was co-produced by ESPN…but you’d never know that because the NFL bullied ESPN into taking their name off it.


Daisy_loves_Donk

It’s especially horrific if you take into account growing evidence that TBI is linked to increased propensity for violent crime. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6171742/


Ares1935

>The links between TBI and crime are complex. Those who offend could be risk takers with a low threshold for harm avoidance.10 However, a range of potentially criminogenic pre-injury factors could also be risk factors for, and be exacerbated by, TBI. Socioeconomic deprivation, male sex, and risk taking are co-associated with TBI and incarceration—and might simply occur by coincidence. I think thats the tricky part though. Its real hard to study when TBI occurred. we know there is correlation, but causation is near impossible. If you try studying a sample of 30 year old non offenders who suffer a TBI after they've established as being "law abiding individuals" taking away all other contributing factors, would you see the same results that they suddenly suffer from poor impulse control?


Daisy_loves_Donk

For sure, it feels like the studies are in very early days. This study is quite upfront about the fact that we can’t be sure if it’s causation or correlation, it looks like it may well be a mix of both. My suspicion is that it probably occurs when TBI hits specific areas that it can be causation, but we’re way off finding anything in that kind of detail. Either way I certainly think it’s worth mentioning when discussing these things.


BlackBoiFlyy

Yea, remember a good amount of kids not playing when I started simply because their mothers forbid it. Ended up taking myself out of the game when I realized how many coaches would rather "toughen you up" by risking injuries than just teaching kids how to play.


iamatribesman

this is so sad. it's a huge two sided coin isnt it? become a football player to become rich and set up your family for the rest of their lives and yours, but sacrifice your body and mind to do it. i hope we can do better for our entertainment needs.


SalsaSmuggler

Dude with the amount of money involved there’s never going to be a shortage of players/parents willing to sign up


EmperorHans

The total number of kids playing tackle football has dropped by 20% over the last ten years, and while most of that has been youth football, high school football participation is at a twenty year low, and last years drop was so big it decreased the total number of kids playing *any* high school sport for the first time in thirty years. Football isnt going to die, but the drop in participation is likely to lead to a decline in overhaul talent in college and the NFL, and that *could* quickly become cyclical, as lower interest in the NFL leads kids to pick other sports, leading to greater talent losses, eventually knocking football off its perch a top the sports mountain.


sassyseconds

Sounds similar to boxing's fall from elitism.


Cantstandyuh

Honestly, good. Kids can still play pickup sports with their friends, we dont need these behemoth piece of shit organizations having so much money and power.


Slamdutch

I think last year may have had some other circumstances contributing to the lack of participation in extracurricular activities…


EmperorHans

Probably should've clarified, but those numbers are for the last *school* year, so 2019-2020. Football would've been, if not over, at least not still adding participants. I'm fairly certain spring sports wouldve at least started by mid march, so participant numbers shouldn't have been affected too dramatically.


CEZ3

Mostly those who come from poor families will play (American) football in the future.


mr_ji

It seems to be losing popularity...while things like MMA are exploding in popularity


simjanes2k

I'm a dad, but otherwise yes. We ruled out football and hockey for our kids. It's a major bummer compare to what we imagined our family to be years ago, but data says it's bad for brains.


Slamdutch

Hockey fucking scares me. All the bad things about football while everyone also has razor blades on their feet.


PolarBare333

I'm an avid martial artist that has put nearly two decades into striking and grappling martial arts (MMA)- muay thai, boxing, and jiu-jitsu. As this information about football related brain trauma information has become more prevalent, it's made me reconsider whether or not I think I'd have my child (future child) participate in competitive fighting like I did. As for football itself, there's no way I'd let my kid play; moreover, this is because of the high speed collisions involved in the sport. I feel like combative sports are *safer* than American football, but I don't know that I'd want my child doing mma, boxing, or kickboxing. As far as contact sports go, I feel like wrestling and jiu jitsu are very safe arts to practice when it comes to head trauma- I think I'd steer my child towards something of this nature as opposed to football. Btw, I also played football as a kid and enjoyed it.


jaiagreen

One of the advantages of grappling: you're not literally trying to give someone a brain injury! BJJ has its risks, but they're mostly manageable by tapping early and often.


WorkingContext

The thing about football, is while players have protection, they literalyl use their helmets as weapons. You engage with your helmet/facemask and then lock out with your arms. People think rugby for example is super violent, but it's much safer. 1, because you don't have a helmet, your body naturally avoids head contact, and 2, you have to wrap up and bring the offensive player to the ground and hold him there in order to force him to release the ball, if you truck stick him down, he can pop back up and keep running with the ball


dok_DOM

Assuming the NFL put into practice job safety measures that changes the way games are played would you be for it? This is assuming the movie "Concussion" was not made? Many fans would not like and may even kill off US football as you know it.


Redrumbluedrum

What you will see is a white flight away from football while POC continue to invite themselves for our entertainment because they don't have the access to the same resources and opportunities. See all the comments below of white parents directing their children into lacrosse, soccer, tennis, volleyball, etc.


csward53

Guys this thing is deeper than your think. Think about this, Madden (the football videogame) used to have concussions as an injury in the game. Then, one year (around the same time as this controversy) they were mysteriously gone as an injury. That's how bad the NFL wanted to make concussions go away. Forcing EA to remove a real injury from a videogame that is supposed to simulate realistic football. I'm sure some lawyer somewhere thought it was a great idea to use the tobacco company strategy and ofc EA would not risk losing their exclusive license to not hide the truth. If it's in the game, it's in the game? Right? Oh...


Bestboii

>use the tobacco company strategy What does that mean?


DrGhostly

“There’s not enough data to support that claim” or “there are many other factors that could have led to their condition, there’s no evidence this is the primary cause” etc. Repeat lines like that all day every day.


FuhrerGirthWorm

Deny Deny Deny


HalonaBlowhole

And used race-norming to deny claims for Black players in the class action suit: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31554110/nfl-halt-race-norming-review-black-claims-1-billion-concussion-settlement


qmcquackers

Heard about this the other day and it died just as fast. Can you imagine sitting there saying so and so doesn't deserve as much money as they didn't have that high an iq to begin with based on their race. The balls on the lawyers to sit there and say as much


akm862

IIRC the lawyer who argued for them came back and said that it was wrong. Not that it means much though cuz it just seems like a PR move.


GoldenFalcon

Can you imagine using "it's a long held belief and practicd" as a defense to that?


Remorseful_User

Health insurance companies do this about having an actual use.


kriegnes

not american, could you explain?


Ludwigofthepotatoppl

Might be talking about how health insurance in america will use any and all justifications, no matter how flimsy or dubious, to avoid paying out when their clients need it.


kriegnes

isnt that pretty much every insurance company in the world tho? i mean isnt the only difference the law in the country they are active? these insurance scammers will always try to fuck you over, but they can only go that far, depending on the country.


IllegitimateLiteracy

Despite the shit you read on Reddit insurers pay out something like 95% of claims. Reference to a 2013 study from the AMA (can't find since the page has been reorged after 8 years) https://www.policymed.com/2013/07/amas-national-health-insurer-report-card-12-billion-could-be-saved-through-increased-claims-automation.html >The overall denial rate for commercial health insurers went from 3.48 percent in 2012 to 1.82 percent in 2013. Among all insurers this year, Cigna (CI) had the lowest denial rate at .54 percent, while Medicare had the highest denial rate at 4.92 percent. Note that Medicare is a federal program, not private.


Ludwigofthepotatoppl

Ah, fair enough. Real issue is the costs and the amount they don’t cover after deductible is met—can be only 10-40% goes uncovered, but on an american hospital bill? Yeesh.


go-bananas-today

I’m American and also don’t understand lol


troutpoop

Health insurance companies spread misinformation about all sorts of stuff to get out of paying for…healthcare. Imagine spending 12 years learning how to be a doctor, only to spend your days battling with some pencil pusher with a business degree about what medical tests are/are not necessary. Welcome to America. Where we deny whatever we don’t want to be true because it would cost too much


Dudeist-Priest

This misinformation thing is not limited to sports - pharma, manufacturing, fossil fuels and many others have been busted for the same thing. How is spreading misinformation NOT criminal?


SofaSpudAthlete

To me, those in power lobby (narrative change from bribes) the respective branches of government to change, or enforce, the rules in their favor.


TotallyTiredToday

It’s what happens when you allow industries to self-police. There’s a saying bout how it’s hard to get a man to understand when his job depends on not understanding, and it holds true for organizations as well. There’s a reason publicly funded science is important.


HoldenCoughfield

It sucks even more when healthcare itself does it


DogsInCapes

There's a great HBO documentary from the mid 80s called Disposable Heroes that addresses this issue too.


Sweet_Moolah

I feel like I have a bone to pick with the NFL, NBA, and MLB bc they are all shady as hell.


Boredum_Allergy

Gotta mention the NCAA who makes millions off their players that they don't pay a single cent to.


Haruomi_Sportsman

Pretty sure the NCAA is well into the billion territory these days


Boredum_Allergy

In 2016 they generated 995M in revenue. So yeah, probably in the billion territory by now.


ActiveFrontEnd

And to think last week I got downvoted for saying that just because the NFL is sponsoring a cannabis study to see if it could help in various head injuries that it was too late to make amends that way and that they should be liable for their franchise employees injuries. I like football but come on, they are criminal negligent and take away players bodily autonomy for the purpose of brand management.


Inkeithdavidsvoice

And to think!


silence1545

I love football. Love it. The speed, the athleticism, the mental acuity these guys have to have to play the game well, the rivalries, the underdogs, all of it. I quit watching a few years ago because I couldn’t stop the overwhelming feeling that I was literally looking at guys giving themselves long term brain damage for my entertainment. It started creeping up on me after Junior Seau, and I couldn’t shake it. So I did the only thing I could do as a consumer and stopped participating. I don’t watch on TV, I don’t go to games, I don’t buy merchandise, I don’t even visit the subreddits anymore. The monster that is the NFL isn’t going to do anything until it hits their wallets.


techcaleb

I'll go one worse for you - College football. Unpaid and getting brain damage in exchange for maybe being able to afford a college degree. Makes me sick.


relditor

Concussions are the reason I stopped watching the NFL. For me it's more about the thousands of kids that play when they're young, hoping to get that scholarship, but end up with brain injuries. It's not worth it. There's plenty of entertaining sports with limited contact, especially head to head. We can do better as a society.


WorkingContext

The fact that you see guys straight up get knocked out, with their eyes roll back, and their fingers curl, and then go back into the game, makes me sick. T[his guy went back into the same game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP5WswJOxdU)


relditor

Exactly. It's even more terrifying that it happens at high school and younger, and the parents push them to keep playing.


Guerilla_Physicist

Yes. I went to a huuuuge football school for undergrad and I used to be all in with fan stuff for football season but now I just can’t support it in good conscience. Football is basically gladiatorial entertainment when you think about it and usually at the college level you’ve got at least some players who wouldn’t have been able to pay for college without it. So it’s inherently exploitative at the lower levels. Edit: clarity


Mentalfloss1

Rich guys screwing over people?? No!!!


jongruden69

Really rich guys screwing over rich guys


sullw214

"Shaq is rich, the guy who signed his paycheck is wealthy." Paraphrasing Chris Rock.


Mentalfloss1

Only the merely rich guys acquire a lifelong disability and are lied to about it.


1106DaysLater

“Rich guys” as in a couple million $ (most of the time less) into families that have often been poor for generations, vs “rich guys” as in actual billionaires.


WorkingContext

I'd argue not even rich. Tom Brady and Drew Brees are outliers for making hundreds of millions of dollars. The average player plays for 3 years I think, definitely not poor, but not enough money to retire on the spot


dabillinator

3 years at league minimum is more than 45 years of median income in my state. If they are smart about it they could easily retire from it.


WorkingContext

Wait til you read about their patriotic mascot Pat Tillman


Noahb26

Never forget [Junior Seau](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Seau)


woolypully

Corporation worth billions of dollars does shite to cover its arse to make more money. AND faces no consequences because the people enjoying the product really don't give a shite about the people that make the product. Not seeing the news here?


amolad

MLB owners, in the mid-80s, colluded to not sign free agents for like three years because they thought the players were getting too much power due to the fact that the players union kept winning battles in court. The owners had to pay a huge fine to the players. As far as football goes, Bo Jackson said if he had a young son now, he would make sure he went into either baseball or golf.


Lou-Lou-Lou

There was a really good documentary about a football player in the U.S. who was found guilty of murder and it turns out he was brain damaged over time and this was a contributing factor in why he committed the offence due to the location of the damage. Sorry I can't remember the other details.


APiousCultist

There's also WWE wrestler Chris Benoit who murdered his wife and 7 year old son. Again, CTE.


Lou-Lou-Lou

I find that in a lot of cases that manage to get brain scans of murderers there is evidence of this. There is also a good Ted talk on this called 80000 brains. Thanks for the comment, I will look this up.


0xD153A53

Women's college lacrosse didn't used to require helmets, which resulted in softer hits and fewer concussions. A concern when the idea of introducing helmets was brought up was that it would suggest that players could take harder hits. Helmets were adopted and what happened? YUP. More concussions than before helmets were required.


Choui4

I'd just like to point out that the NFL is far from the exception. What a lot of people (and even someone whose looked into it like myself, I'm sure) fail to realize is THIS is business right now. THIS is capitalism right now. It is easier and less expensive to hire a "think tank" or PR firm to spread disinformation about something. Than it is to actually remedy situations. It's literally a cost benefit calculation, and because the system of "maximize profits above all else" (aka capitalism). Even the cost of doing the right thing is weighed against, objectively evil. I'm not sure if this is nth stage capitalism but something needs to change and soon. This model is not sustainable and is actively killing people.


AutomaticRadish

Ford Pinto - after becoming aware the fuel tank position meant high likelihood of fires after a crash, it was calculated that paying the settlements of future victims would be cheaper than recalling.


craxnehcark

Im sure the list is never ending, but the same thing happened when Boeing was forced to up their engine size to be competitive within their field yet ended up pushing through a poorly (relatively) designed plane with a partially functional mcas system.


SofaSpudAthlete

Yeah. This list is the reasoning behind requiring business students to take ethics courses in college, and then employees taking yearly ethics trainings in the work place. But, the list doesn’t seem to stop growing.


asstalos

I'm not surprised the list keeps growing because ethics classes and ethics training don't make any difference when mired in large-company bureaucracy and administration. It's an institutional and systematic problem pervasively infecting the entirety of the company's structure. Doing the ethically right thing doesn't matter when doing the ethically right thing isn't ingrained in the company's activities, and no amount of ethics classes taken by individuals will change the group dynamics created when people get together to make decisions in such environments. It requires systematic, institutional changes.


ahhhbiscuits

I'm partial to the ["Bayer discovers HIV-contaminated products and decides to sell them overseas"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24785997/#:~:text=When%20Bayer's%20Cutter%20Laboratories%20realized,high%20to%20destroy%20the%20inventory.) scandal. There's evil but then there's pharma levels of evil.


ctrl-all-alts

[full text, uploaded by csun.edu](http://www.csun.edu/~lmchenry/syllabi/documents/BloodMoney.pdf)


SsurebreC

[Fight Club - The Recall Coordinator's Formula](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE)


Choui4

That is such a good example. "the corporation" is an eye opening book


CEZ3

Could you supply a link or an author? Thanks.


thebigdonkey

Also see: Oil companies denying leaded gas was harmful to anyone when burned. Fossil fuel companies denying anthropogenic climate change. Basically anytime there's an existential threat to a company or industry, they will do anything to cover it up at all costs.


Choui4

The one that bothers me the most. Is oil and gas creating "recycling" for plastic.


Galadyn

Just like it's cheaper to buy your competitor and shut down all their stores than it is to actually compete with them.


Choui4

Yup, or "merge" as in take all their assets and terminate the employees


violentfemme17

Starbucks did that to Tevana.


nutbastard

Capitalism is the reason I’m able to read about your criticism of capitalism. It’s the worst economic system. Except for all the other ones.


Heckin_Ryn

Billion dollar business covers up the fact it's employees are slowly killing themselves instead of finding a way to make it safer? Sounds like a Tuesday in America.


Browzur

Then you have football fans booing players for leaving the league early due to so many injuries. Their dedicated fan base doesn’t give a fuck about the players


p3rcyclutchz

And its 100x worse now with all the betting and fantasy shit...lots of money on the line. People care about $$$$ and it shows


svjersey

Almost makes me happy as a first gen immigrant that my kids are both daughters.


penguinchem13

They are also paying smaller settlements to black players. The reasoning is the the black players had a lower intellect and therefore lost less.


Merbels

That is absolutely disgusting


el_tacomonkey

What are they doing about the obviously brain damaged refs?


in_pizza_we_trust

They have them saved for lions games


saliczar

They don't even get to bring their seeing-eye dogs on the field.


[deleted]

At this point, is there anyone not spreading misinformation? Political parties, fossil fuels, soda manufacturers, sugar industry, gun manufacturers. Every corporation is fuckin people and our planet in the ass and then pay people to spread misinformation rather than do the right thing.


smitbret

Yeah, I didn't see that anywhere in the article. I see there was a committee formed to study it and they stuck their heads in the sand and weren't completely transparent. I didn't see anything that said they deliberately spread misinformation


LPTKill

Don't forget how the dicked over the black players by assuming that their normal state was a lower state of cognitive function.


gotham77

Yeah anyone who says “player knew what they were getting in to,” YOU’RE WRONG. They didn’t. Everybody knows that playing football will give you concussions. But the NFL spent years deliberately misleading people into believing that a concussion can be managed like any other injury, that if you just take enough time to rest you’ll heal as if it never happened. But every single concussion causes PERMANENT damage. They even hired a crooked doctor who testified to Congress that a concussion doesn’t cause permanent damage. They also suppressed all the science about micro-concussions that build up over time and cause CTE. There are HIGH SCHOOL KIDS getting this disease. DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS PLAY FOOTBALL! Edit: everybody should watch the PBS Frontline 2-hr documentary “League of Denial.” It was co-produced by ESPN…but you’d never know that because the NFL bullied ESPN into taking their name off it.


XxIcedaddyxX

I probably lucked out. I was deemed too small to play tackle football, then in the 8th grade got a chance. Ended up being the FS and KR/PR. I wasn't the biggest on the team but I was fast and could hit like a truck. I broke my wrist and arm on a field trip two weeks before our first game, doc almost let me play with a club cast then decided against it. After that I didn't try out for football again. I continued to wrestle, play soccer and ride/race dirt bikes. The dirt bike hobby has been hard enough on my body through the years (broke over 20 bones, concussions, stitches, surgeries and a blown knee). I look back and am mostly grateful I didn't play football as well.


Blue-Thunder

Living with possible CTE is not fun. Sadly the only true way to be diagnosed is to have your brain examined after death.


BlackBoiFlyy

Not at all surprising unless you just don't really follow football I guess.


ImHammerrr

I was playing College football when Concussion released in theaters, I almost quit football after watching it. While I never had any diagnosed concussions, and don’t recall ever having concussion symptoms, still scares the shit out of me thinking about CTE.


ctorg

I tried to analyze some concussion MRI data a few years ago but it's hard to find football subjects. Most NFL and college teams prohibit players to participate in neuroscience studies. We can analyze little league and high school, but that's obviously not the same. How are we supposed to study the impacts of high-level football on the brain in a statistically significant way?


Fonty57

You to use get taught when you were younger to use your head as a weapon especially as a linemen. Treat it like a battering ram and you knock the other person off balance fairly quickly. I’m glad things are changing. I couldn’t tell you how many mini concussions I suffered in my playing days and I played for over 10 years. We use to laugh it off, call it getting earholed. Not so funny any more.


JohnBrown42069

They also, just a few weeks ago, reversed a rule where they assumed black players to have lower cognitive function for CTE testing. Roger Goodell really is a gigantic piece of shit.


DirtyKarma

Nothing surprises me with shady businesses and sports