So.. is romance not the main theme? “AgOnY oF lOve 💋 😘💘🧣❤️🕊” isn’t the main theme? Cuz that’s romance. So… what’s the main theme? Isn’t that what the main plot was building towards? A fucked up romance vs a “good” romance? What is yams saying?
I mean, there is a bit of a stigma where romance is seen as somehow making a story "less mature".
For example, there was once a discussion on another page about why Eren and Jean did not get along at first. The people who commented mostly brought up things about both of them being arrogant and their irreconcilable ideologies and life philosophies.
Nobody was brave enough to say "Jean has a crush on Mikasa, and Mikasa has a crush on Eren" might be a reason why Jean did not like Eren.
Agony for love is arguably the main theme in Attack on Titan. Characters suffering because they lost someone important or subjecting themselves to brutal sacrifices to protect those they love is what this story has always been about.
The only difference is that this love has primarily been either the love to a Friend, the love to Family, or the abstract universal known as Generosity. The love to a romantic partner should not be seen as lesser to those other forms of love.
Isayama: I don't focus on romance because I'm not good at it.
Also Isayama: forget freedom, forget surpassing the father, and forget getting children of the forest. Mikasa's love for Eren will be the central theme!
Retcon is pretty obvious it hurts.
Aot had such little romance but yet it's the thing they obsess about. Add to the fact that Isayama is so weak to pressure and we can confidently say that the story was compromised.
Isayama appears to be saying that talking about romance is embarrassing for him.
Manga authors, especially male authors those who write to a young male demographic (aka Shonen) are very infamous for being shy when talking about romance. There is a reason why the meme "HAND HOLDING IS LEWD" exists.
I think the reason for this is that there is a bit of a stigma against romance, where people seam to think that it makes a story less mature or serious.
A good example would be The Hunger Games. By this point, most of those who have read the books or seen the movies are probably aware the Gale was originally supposed to be Katniss's cousin, and that it was the editor who persuaded Susan Collins to make him a potential love interest. This explanation is usually brought up whenever a fan feels like they need an excuse to justify them enjoying a story with a love triangle, something that does not make a story lesser in any way.
This is also probably the reason why when I read a forum somewhere else about why Eren and Jean did not get along at first, people almost exclusively brought up their ideological difference. Nobody was brave enough to admit that "Jean had a crush on Mikasa and Mikasa had a crush on Eren" was one of the reasons Jean disliked Eren.
The vibe I get from how he answered the question is that he wished he could've wrote the story better to suit the ending he wrote. Over time his vision of the ending changed so that's why some stuff may have been retconned or scrapped. He wishes he could've wrote this same ending but with a story that leads up to it better
Is this a new interview? This again proved how much he doesn't believe in his own vision. I feel really bad for him too because he was stuck with a bunch of weirdos who never removed their shipping glasses.
And whatever he's coming up with for Levi, I want it to be written by himself. Levi has suffered enough from milking campaigns and I still trust Izayana much more than his team of editors, ghostwriters and whatever.
>And whatever he's coming up with for Levi, I want it to be written by himself. Levi has suffered enough from milking campaigns and I still trust Izayana much more than his team of editors, ghostwriters and whatever.
Well said man.
What I don't get is we already have seen Levi's life before so what is he going to write about? Levi can't do anything at the end of the manga.
well he said it's a backstory. but also i'm curious because we pretty much already have all the important aspects of his life (although acwnr isn't written by isayama, it's still considered canon)
In a 2014 interview, he was asked why is Levi obsessed with cleaning and he said "backstory coming soon, please stay tuned". I would also love an alternate backstory which actually explores his experiences as a thug and how he acquired his street smarts instead of the complete basement dweller that ACWNR made him.
>instead of the complete basement dweller that ACWNR made him.
yeah you can tell, pretty obviously, that acwnr wasn't written by isayama. the plot is just so basic and didn't touch on most of the potentially interesting stuff about him. parts that i do like though are his first encounter with erwin in the adaptation, showing how he hold his blades backwards, and him fighting that abnornal titan. other than that, it was meh.
I also like the fight with the abnormal titan the most. I wonder if it was even properly supervised by Isayama. In the same interview that I mentioned in the previous comment, he said that the only plot point given by him was Erwin observing a thug from the underground city. I think that rather than Isayama being genuinely impressed by the story and characterization, it was licensed bc Kodansha was in the era of making the most of the series' popularity, similar to Garrison Girl (the author did an AMA on the main sub a few years ago).
So in short, he didn't really have a clue what story he wanted to tell so he just added new ideas retroactively. This means that abnormal titans aren't really explained then also because if it's not royal blood then literally what else is it?
What he said can still work, royal blood pure titans arent shown to be able to talk either. And adding new ideas retroactively is case for basicly every long running series.
No, i understand that. It just goes against the communities perception that isayama had everything planned out and that attack on titan was far more than it ever was. This isn't an attack on isayama
Yeah, as far as i know isiyama himself never claimed to have had everything planned out, i guess fandom somehow confused having amazing foreshadowing for certian parts of the story with having every single plot point planned out before he even started his first manga.
I couldn't imagine getting invested into a new story from him no matter how good it seems at first.
Imagine spending years (again) being excited just for him to pull another 139 situation.
The dub is not as bad as y’all try to make it seem.. There are actually awful dubs out there and I don’t think Aot is anywhere close to being one of them.. Most popular ones usually aren’t that bad, but the lowkey,less popular ones are really bad
From what I saw the saiki k dub is pretty good. However the only complaint I have is that kusuo sounds like a bored commentary youtuber lol. But I guess it fits.
Unwatchable because they’re bad , or because you prefer them in Japanese? A lot of people are biased towards them so they call them bad.. but for me personally, I prefer dubs, but also enjoy subs . I don’t go around saying subs are bad bc I prefer the other
For me its both. I prefer the sub but find the dub bad. I would much rather the dub be better than the sub for a better experience, but i find the dub a lot worse
I think what he means is we can't tell if a certain japanese dub is good because we can't understand japanese. Inflections, pronunciation, and to some extent delivery. We have no context because the only context we have are just other anime as well.
Dubbed anime isn’t just bad when compared to the japanese voice acting, it’s bad compared to other english performances like video game voice acting and hollywood movies. Almost all dubbed anime just sounds cringey
You're dodging the argument. I did not even said they were better. I said we are not a good judge of japanese voice acting because we have no context. Can you tell a if german dub if it's good? How about Spanish? The English vs Japanese dub has always been rooted in bias since english dub was really bad way back and japanese dub fans are just that into weeb culture. I'm just not a fan of dismissing English VA's work just because of that bias.
You can call it bias if you want, engish dub sounds horrible compared to even other english voices in other media. You can argue I can’t say japanese is objectively better (the whole discussion is subjective anyway so it doesn’t matter). You say i’m dismissing english VAs becuase of that bis but me saying eng dub is bad has nothing to do with the bias of understanding english becuase i’m comparing it to OTHER english performances which I also stand. In short; english dub is bad (IMO) even without comparing it to the superior japanese sub, so you can’t say i’m dismissive of dub only because I like the sub
Well what's the point in reading the subs then I'm just hearing everything in my voice in my head while the Japanese voice actors get relegated to background noise
If I wanted to read an anime in my voice I'd just read the manga
The dub isn't shit because I don't like it, that is subjective. If you like the English speaking actors better, it's fine. It is shit tho, because it take too many creative liberties with the lines. The anime butchered the characters enough. I don't need cringy lines like "The gates of titania are opening" or whatever Hange said in dub. Or Levi calling the kids that were about to kill themselves for the sake of humanity "crying children". Or Erwin, a dignified politician, swearing.
I know this is titanfolk and we all wish we had gotten a different ending but we have to move on and at least be grateful that we got what we got and we enjoyed 90% of it. At least he didn’t die or abandon the manga like other authors
I'd rather discontinued stories for whatever reason over an ending that takes everything presented and proceeds to shatter it like glass in a child's hands.
I'd rather have no story than a story that is good for "90%" with a shit ending. At least if it were shit from the start i would have just left earlier and not waste my time
Every time Yams does an interview, it hurts to read how he gradually lost sight of his original ending and either didn't bother to brainstorm something better to fit what he had been establishing for years or he was strong arm by his editor and publisher to produce what we got in the end.
So.. is romance not the main theme? “AgOnY oF lOve 💋 😘💘🧣❤️🕊” isn’t the main theme? Cuz that’s romance. So… what’s the main theme? Isn’t that what the main plot was building towards? A fucked up romance vs a “good” romance? What is yams saying?
i still dont know what yams was on when he made ymir fall in love with fritz
EreMika crack
Seems to me like he's admitting he was forced into writing an ending he didn't want, but only Ymir knows for sure.
I mean, there is a bit of a stigma where romance is seen as somehow making a story "less mature". For example, there was once a discussion on another page about why Eren and Jean did not get along at first. The people who commented mostly brought up things about both of them being arrogant and their irreconcilable ideologies and life philosophies. Nobody was brave enough to say "Jean has a crush on Mikasa, and Mikasa has a crush on Eren" might be a reason why Jean did not like Eren.
Agony for love is arguably the main theme in Attack on Titan. Characters suffering because they lost someone important or subjecting themselves to brutal sacrifices to protect those they love is what this story has always been about. The only difference is that this love has primarily been either the love to a Friend, the love to Family, or the abstract universal known as Generosity. The love to a romantic partner should not be seen as lesser to those other forms of love.
Isayama: I don't focus on romance because I'm not good at it. Also Isayama: forget freedom, forget surpassing the father, and forget getting children of the forest. Mikasa's love for Eren will be the central theme! Retcon is pretty obvious it hurts.
The staff is obsessed with shipping. Annie's description in the final guidebook: something something Armeen, whose heart his connected to her 🥰😚😘😉.
Aot had such little romance but yet it's the thing they obsess about. Add to the fact that Isayama is so weak to pressure and we can confidently say that the story was compromised.
"What does freedom mean to you?' "I don't know" Chadsayama doesn't even know the main theme of his story
Yams doesn't understand the story Wait a minute.....
it’s because he’s not japanese
Eren was talking about freedom with a writer that doesn’t even know what freedom is 💀 BRILLIANT
Isayama did the Kruger scene "I.. I don't know"
u cant retcon like that unless u actively try, like if it aint working most would just go back to classic mc wins so 10 years of build up isnt wasted
They obviously didn't want bad guy winning ending, although it does fit with AoT tone.
wasnt yams trying to make aot not black and white with a big bad with s4 marley? idk he messed up
Isayama appears to be saying that talking about romance is embarrassing for him. Manga authors, especially male authors those who write to a young male demographic (aka Shonen) are very infamous for being shy when talking about romance. There is a reason why the meme "HAND HOLDING IS LEWD" exists. I think the reason for this is that there is a bit of a stigma against romance, where people seam to think that it makes a story less mature or serious. A good example would be The Hunger Games. By this point, most of those who have read the books or seen the movies are probably aware the Gale was originally supposed to be Katniss's cousin, and that it was the editor who persuaded Susan Collins to make him a potential love interest. This explanation is usually brought up whenever a fan feels like they need an excuse to justify them enjoying a story with a love triangle, something that does not make a story lesser in any way. This is also probably the reason why when I read a forum somewhere else about why Eren and Jean did not get along at first, people almost exclusively brought up their ideological difference. Nobody was brave enough to admit that "Jean had a crush on Mikasa and Mikasa had a crush on Eren" was one of the reasons Jean disliked Eren.
So Eren was in fact backed into a corner if his only options were "die from curse, die from his so-called friends or die to the warriors"
I love how Memeyama does not even give a clear answer to the first question.
First question wasnt specific enough they phrased it like a yes/no q
The vibe I get from how he answered the question is that he wished he could've wrote the story better to suit the ending he wrote. Over time his vision of the ending changed so that's why some stuff may have been retconned or scrapped. He wishes he could've wrote this same ending but with a story that leads up to it better
Is this a new interview? This again proved how much he doesn't believe in his own vision. I feel really bad for him too because he was stuck with a bunch of weirdos who never removed their shipping glasses. And whatever he's coming up with for Levi, I want it to be written by himself. Levi has suffered enough from milking campaigns and I still trust Izayana much more than his team of editors, ghostwriters and whatever.
>And whatever he's coming up with for Levi, I want it to be written by himself. Levi has suffered enough from milking campaigns and I still trust Izayana much more than his team of editors, ghostwriters and whatever. Well said man. What I don't get is we already have seen Levi's life before so what is he going to write about? Levi can't do anything at the end of the manga.
well he said it's a backstory. but also i'm curious because we pretty much already have all the important aspects of his life (although acwnr isn't written by isayama, it's still considered canon)
In a 2014 interview, he was asked why is Levi obsessed with cleaning and he said "backstory coming soon, please stay tuned". I would also love an alternate backstory which actually explores his experiences as a thug and how he acquired his street smarts instead of the complete basement dweller that ACWNR made him.
>instead of the complete basement dweller that ACWNR made him. yeah you can tell, pretty obviously, that acwnr wasn't written by isayama. the plot is just so basic and didn't touch on most of the potentially interesting stuff about him. parts that i do like though are his first encounter with erwin in the adaptation, showing how he hold his blades backwards, and him fighting that abnornal titan. other than that, it was meh.
I also like the fight with the abnormal titan the most. I wonder if it was even properly supervised by Isayama. In the same interview that I mentioned in the previous comment, he said that the only plot point given by him was Erwin observing a thug from the underground city. I think that rather than Isayama being genuinely impressed by the story and characterization, it was licensed bc Kodansha was in the era of making the most of the series' popularity, similar to Garrison Girl (the author did an AMA on the main sub a few years ago).
What did the author said? The interesting points.
So in short, he didn't really have a clue what story he wanted to tell so he just added new ideas retroactively. This means that abnormal titans aren't really explained then also because if it's not royal blood then literally what else is it?
What he said can still work, royal blood pure titans arent shown to be able to talk either. And adding new ideas retroactively is case for basicly every long running series.
No, i understand that. It just goes against the communities perception that isayama had everything planned out and that attack on titan was far more than it ever was. This isn't an attack on isayama
Yeah, as far as i know isiyama himself never claimed to have had everything planned out, i guess fandom somehow confused having amazing foreshadowing for certian parts of the story with having every single plot point planned out before he even started his first manga.
I seriously hope he decides to keep writing. Whether it be more aot stories/spin offs, or a different manga all together
I couldn't imagine getting invested into a new story from him no matter how good it seems at first. Imagine spending years (again) being excited just for him to pull another 139 situation.
There was alredy said in the manga, that international language, that can be spoken everywhere is Eldian.
Aemond Targaryen would've ~~Rumbled~~ Vhagar-ed 100%
"here let me rewind it for you" MAN IS A WHOLE ASS MENANCE SHEESH
Was he asked how he would address Joe?
Isayama what a mangaka you're
Damn this guy had a great story in his hands, and then went to shit
What language do the characters communicate in? "A good comparison in real life would be English" HA! people who complain about the dub. Suck it
English is the most universal language, it's not better...
Dub is still shit
Only Bryce. I swear everyone else sounds fine in the dub, especially Erwin and Levi But Bryce just sound awful as eren
Historia's voice is perfect. She was able to play the role how the character was written.
Erwin, Reiner and Bertholdt have great dub voice actors.
The dub is not as bad as y’all try to make it seem.. There are actually awful dubs out there and I don’t think Aot is anywhere close to being one of them.. Most popular ones usually aren’t that bad, but the lowkey,less popular ones are really bad
I mean the whole thing is so subjective so it varies between people but for me, every single english dub on any show is unwatchable
Only a sith deals in absolutes. Also ghost stories exists.
The true peak of the english dub
There are a couple of decent dubs out there. I prefer Hetalias dub and I enjoyed watching the Absolute Duo dub
From what I saw the saiki k dub is pretty good. However the only complaint I have is that kusuo sounds like a bored commentary youtuber lol. But I guess it fits.
Unwatchable because they’re bad , or because you prefer them in Japanese? A lot of people are biased towards them so they call them bad.. but for me personally, I prefer dubs, but also enjoy subs . I don’t go around saying subs are bad bc I prefer the other
For me its both. I prefer the sub but find the dub bad. I would much rather the dub be better than the sub for a better experience, but i find the dub a lot worse
Erwin's last charge is still infinitely better in English IMO
You’re telling me jotaro’s japanese voice actor screaming at the top of his lungs is inferior to the dub? Not even close
Nah man. Dub takes cake on this one https://youtu.be/wmmF6Dqmbbc
Yep Do you know why? I DON'T SPEAK JAPANESE and I can actually understand what Michael Tatum is saying
Bro hasn’t learned how to read yet 💀
I think what he means is we can't tell if a certain japanese dub is good because we can't understand japanese. Inflections, pronunciation, and to some extent delivery. We have no context because the only context we have are just other anime as well.
Dubbed anime isn’t just bad when compared to the japanese voice acting, it’s bad compared to other english performances like video game voice acting and hollywood movies. Almost all dubbed anime just sounds cringey
I feel the same.
Even FMAB?
You're dodging the argument. I did not even said they were better. I said we are not a good judge of japanese voice acting because we have no context. Can you tell a if german dub if it's good? How about Spanish? The English vs Japanese dub has always been rooted in bias since english dub was really bad way back and japanese dub fans are just that into weeb culture. I'm just not a fan of dismissing English VA's work just because of that bias.
You can call it bias if you want, engish dub sounds horrible compared to even other english voices in other media. You can argue I can’t say japanese is objectively better (the whole discussion is subjective anyway so it doesn’t matter). You say i’m dismissing english VAs becuase of that bis but me saying eng dub is bad has nothing to do with the bias of understanding english becuase i’m comparing it to OTHER english performances which I also stand. In short; english dub is bad (IMO) even without comparing it to the superior japanese sub, so you can’t say i’m dismissive of dub only because I like the sub
Well what's the point in reading the subs then I'm just hearing everything in my voice in my head while the Japanese voice actors get relegated to background noise If I wanted to read an anime in my voice I'd just read the manga
Lol
The dub isn't shit because I don't like it, that is subjective. If you like the English speaking actors better, it's fine. It is shit tho, because it take too many creative liberties with the lines. The anime butchered the characters enough. I don't need cringy lines like "The gates of titania are opening" or whatever Hange said in dub. Or Levi calling the kids that were about to kill themselves for the sake of humanity "crying children". Or Erwin, a dignified politician, swearing.
So subjectively its not shit, it might even be good. You just don't like it.
I know this is titanfolk and we all wish we had gotten a different ending but we have to move on and at least be grateful that we got what we got and we enjoyed 90% of it. At least he didn’t die or abandon the manga like other authors
I'd rather discontinued stories for whatever reason over an ending that takes everything presented and proceeds to shatter it like glass in a child's hands.
You can always head cannon and live like the ending never happened. Would be worst if the series ended missing 20 chapters
My headcannon is that the series ended missing 20 chapters
So the series ended with Gaby 360noscope-ing Eren
Aot 20 chapters ago would've been fine to an extent. What we have now? Beyond disastrous
20 chapters ago means AoT would end with 119 I fuck with that. One of the GOAT chapters
Then stop reading the moment you stop liking it.
#Jee, you don't say.
Nah..... 9 years at least
I'd rather have no story than a story that is good for "90%" with a shit ending. At least if it were shit from the start i would have just left earlier and not waste my time
Yep
Muv Luv did both and did them both better
Every time Yams does an interview, it hurts to read how he gradually lost sight of his original ending and either didn't bother to brainstorm something better to fit what he had been establishing for years or he was strong arm by his editor and publisher to produce what we got in the end.