T O P
amat3ur_hour

I'm on team "the players are better positioned than me to know what's going on here," so I'm satisfied. Supporting the players means supporting what they do, not supporting what I want them to do.


ixodioxi

Sane here.


PDXPuma

So this sounds like the end of the investigation pending players being allowed to be interviewed, which may or may not happen, but if it does, the investigation wil be continued.


ixodioxi

Yeah it looks like it may be re-opened once the players are allowed to be interviewed.


SteveBartmanIncident

If all the players are satisfied with the outcome, I'm satisfied. At least with respect to this.


acquiesce

[NWSLPA tweeted out](https://twitter.com/nwsl_players/status/1485773103091228674): >The NWSLPA agreed to a joint investigation with the NWSL to conduct a thorough review with player input and representation. This is to ensure the safety of the players, ensure players have access to all relevant info, and have input into recommendations. > **Portland's internal review IS NOT affiliated with the joint investigation by the NWSLPA and NWSL.** > The join investigative team's work remains ongoing. (Their bold, I didn't add it.) Pretty sure the Thorns players are just acknowledging there was an investigation by a private company and acknowledging the results and satisfied that their three demands were met, not acknowledging that the investigation is over or they're satisfied with anything. They weren't even interviewed during the investigation.


db0606

Sauerbrunn essentially said as much in her [tweet](https://twitter.com/beckysauerbrunn/status/1485781327735508992?s=20). >The results and limitations of this investigation were shared with us and we now share them with you. When allowed, I truly hope that the players comfortable to do so will speak to the firm. No one will be satisfied until all voices are heard—all anyone wants is the entire truth. If you look back at MPs statement he also says >We have retained new outside lawyers including a female former federal prosecutor to conduct a comprehensive and deliberate independent investigation of our original 2015 investigation. So the Thorns investigation wasn't really supposed to be about what actually happened, but about how it was handled. Obviously there's some overlap there, but essentially the Thorns investigation was not designed to re-litigate the whole thing from scratch. I think the NWSL PA's statement isn't really an indictment of the Thorns investigation, just a confirmation that their investigation is ongoing.


acquiesce

> Sauerbrunn essentially said as much in her tweet Didn't see that, so that's good that I picked up on that from the overall message and definitely didn't think the Thorns 'pat us on the back' investigation was actually an in-depth investigation on what happened. Going to be interesting to see what the other investigation finds out (if anything at all).


NewRCTID22

> Based on the results of the investigation, we recognize the reinstatement of Gavin Wilkinson as President of Soccer. Yet, the first response to Sinclair's tweet is ["no peace til Wilkinson goes"](https://twitter.com/BeccaHayne/status/1485759823979638785?s=20). So this was never really about standing by the players for some people then, right?


CHiZZoPs1

There's always been a rabid and vocal GW-OUT faction in the TA.


NewRCTID22

Yeah fully aware. Just feels like this is finally saying the silent part out loud.


DysClaimer

IMO it's always been out loud. There are plenty of people who will not accept any resolution that involves GW staying in Portland, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable generalizing about what "this" is all about. Lots of people have lots of different opinions. I've got no problem with people criticizing the organization's statements or actions, but I'm not sure rando twitter comments are really that representative of what TA/RCR/107ist members think about anything.


Skeptical_Yoshi

I'll say GW has at least a mildly simmering seat.


Hailfire9

I'd say that he just achieved the finals for the third time with the Timbers. He probably isn't going to be removed from the male side, at least.


NewRCTID22

Four times if you count MLS is Back. It's not a perfect resume, but Portland has had more success than pretty much every MLS team not named Seattle/Toronto since 2015. 2015: MLS Cup 2016: x 2017: Western Conference Regular-Season Trophy 2018: MLS Cup Final 2019: x 2020: MLS is Back 2021: MLS Cup Final


db0606

And a bunch of hardware with the Thorns. GW is MP's guy and unless one of the investigations comes up with a smoking gun, he's not going anywhere for soccer reasons unless things go super upside down this year and even then I think they'd blame Gio and keep GW around. It would take multiple bad seasons for GW to get the boot.


Thumper13

Yep, people are already parsing words, insinuating results, etc. Anything to move the goalposts. They never cared what the players wanted.


NewRCTID22

People are posting on Twitter, without evidence, that they think the players were manipulated or coerced into this statement, even when [some Thorns are pushing back](https://twitter.com/kellihubly/status/1485767020360572931?s=20) on that stance. I do not understand what that accomplishes and I do not understand how that aligns with the original messaging.


SpoSeaPDX

This guy in particular. Like many, he's fueling his rage with false beliefs: [https://twitter.com/BenDChambers/status/1485773680647065600](https://twitter.com/BenDChambers/status/1485773680647065600) One could respond, asking for a factual basis for his strong statement that he's not satisfied because "Gavin allowed Riley to rape and abuse players." However, there's no point arguing with someone so dug in. It's like arguing about Covid with an anti-vaxxer.


NewRCTID22

At the same, in the various responses to Chris Rifer's tweet including [this](https://twitter.com/Loud_Questions/status/1485783423406989313?s=20) and [this](https://twitter.com/ace_fromhouston/status/1485790784863576064?s=20), more people seem to be recognizing and challenging irrational responses. I'm hopeful more level-headed reactions will help pacify the dynamic and start the process of finding a productive middle-ground.


ixodioxi

Yeah. That guy is an asshole and I'm the user he responded to. He sent me a direct message with a longgg thread of threats and claiming that I support child abuse (what the fuck?) and such for not wanting Gavin to be fired.


ixodioxi

Correct. Those type of people have an irrational deep hatred for Gavin. I would never understand them.


jboarei

Yep, I got blocked for pointing out their hypocrisies.


platinumplantain

The players said they "recognize" it, do they endorse it? Nothing the players have said is inconsistent with fans wanting him gone


NewRCTID22

The players called for him to be put on leave before, they could've called for his complete removal if that's what that investigation evidence suggested. So, I see a discernible difference between recognizing his reinstatement and demanding his dismissal, which is what some fans want.


platinumplantain

They wanted him put on leave pending the results of an investigation. Now they "recognize" that an investigation where players weren't even interviewed ended so the club is ending his leave. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement, we still have no way of knowing if he did anything wrong because the real investigation is apparently the NWSL's or US Soccer's. The players seem to be waiting for those investigations tbh


NewRCTID22

That's still missing the forest for the trees. Some fans are calling for his dismissal, but the players have not yet done so. The players seem to be waiting for it all to conclude before rushing to judgment, which is what the fans - if they claim to support the players - should be doing too.


platinumplantain

You are surprised that players are less likely to call for the dismissal of their boss that hired them than are fans who don't have to see Gavin Wilkinson in the office every day? There's nothing incompatible about supporting the players AND wanting Gavin Wilkinson removed, and it's weird you are trying to position it that way


ixodioxi

There have been players who called for resignations of their coach, team owners and such. Do you really think that the Thorns players are terrified to call for GW's resignation? Stop putting words in their mouth and follow what they want. It's not that hard.


platinumplantain

They "recognize" that Gavin Wilkinson was reinstated. They don't endorse, accept, support, approve, applaud, etc. Why don't you follow your own advice and stop misinterpreting their words to fit your personal narrative.


terrorllama

Just to point this out, not the the irrational will understand it, the investigation by the Timbers/Thorns organization was over "business operations". That means everything from policies all the way down to toilet paper. The fact that this was concluded and found satisfactory, means that the FO complied with or exceeded all the policies that bind them.


FalafelBall

lol do you not understand what "business operations" are? This was very distinctly not an investigation into the Meleana Shim complaint so there's that.....


rzle

There are still some questions that I would like answers to, such as why MP chose to tweet at Paul Riley several years after he left, but if the Thorns players are satisfied than so am I. It sounds like the next big thing will be the NWSL's investigation and I'm sure the players will re-evaluate after that. I think the FO will be closely watching how the 107 responds to this announcement. Hopefully the two sides can begin to back away from the ledge and slowly begin to mend their relationship.


CHiZZoPs1

If not, the 107ist needs a change of leadership.


irishbball49

Good luck with that


shawnlevy

There's an election every December for 1/3rd of the seats on the board. Just saying....


RCTID1975

Why not both?


terrorllama

>why MP chose to tweet at Paul Riley several years after he left, Why does it matter? Is MP not allowed to maintain friendships? Do those tweets really matter in the grand scheme of things?


rzle

Let's remember that Paul Riley is accused of sexual misconduct with players, including during his time in Portland. Given that the FO claims to have investigated and found enough in those claims to not bring Riley back, one might question why MP would want to maintain that friendship. It seems inconsistent of MP to conclude that there was enough evidence that the man was sexually coercing two Thorns players to not bring him back, and then a couple of years later tweet about what a fantastic coach he is.


oregonianrager

Where did it say he sexually abused any player? It didn't say that at all. Paul Riley was accused of sexually cohercing one girl here, after north carolina, then tried to get some two on one and Mana said hell no. There's claims of harassment, but unless he roofyd them, I don't think abuse is on the table here. What went on at the next team I do not know. So unless the first girl said Paul raped her, which I believe was never released or claimed, we have sexual harassment. That's the facts as I understand them. Don't come at me with no in-between the lines shit either. I've already dealt with yall irrational types. Paul is a predator and he's gone. Good riddance.


rzle

Fair. Word choice matters and I clearly didn't double check that. My bad. Above statement edited.


terrorllama

I'm not defending Riley, I believe he's guilty as hell. However, I don't recall anyone ever saying they found evidence at all. But even still, do those who commit crimes not deserve friends? I've said this before, but what MP does on his personal Twitter, is his business, it does not represent the FO or the organization. The same goes for GW. (Unless they are committing a crime) MP isn't good about separating his personal account from the organization info, but that's on him, not the FO. It's obserd to hold the FO accountable for a person's personal aquantences. Before you try to make the argument that he's the President of the org yaddi yaddi ya, unless MP committed the abuse or participated in said abuse, he has the right to his personal opinion and friendships.


rzle

MP is entitled to his opinions and friendships, and the Thorns players would be within their rights to view the tweets in question and conclude that their boss values his relationship with someone that coerced two of their own. They might, understandably, not be comfortable with that. That's my concern here. I'm not trying to witch hunt MP or anything like that. I'm not part of the faction that is adamant that he sell. Please note my wording, I would like answers. I don't demand them. I have questions, not conclusions. Withholding judgment on this until all the dust has settled. Ultimately, if word gets out that Thorns players asked him about the tweets and MP gave them an answer that they are satisfied with and they have moved on, I'll consider this issue resolved.


Dizconekt

It’s a bit odd that the TA has been so silent since this dropped. Figured their leadership would have wanted issue more “demands”


RCTID1975

> It’s a bit odd that the TA has been so silent since this dropped. There's also quite a few notable redditors that seem to be missing from this thread


ixodioxi

*insert pikachu shock gif*


passthekwarasey

It has been like 24 hours now and nothing. They are complicit. What are they hiding?!?


Dizconekt

Hahaha we demand they respond!


quesocaliente

I wonder what the reasoning is behind the players not being allowed to be interviewed is. I'm not convinced there isn't a good reason, it just seems curious. If the investigation can be reopened with player interviews, why not just allow those before the investigation closes in the first place?


db0606

I would hazard a guess that the thought is that if you are going to ask players about potentially traumatic experiences, you don't want to do it four separate times (Thorns, NWSL/NWSL PA, USSF, FIFA investigations). Talking about sexual abuse is taxing enough to do with friends and family, but much more so in front of a team of former federal prosecutors. No reason to reopen those wounds multiple times when one investigation could just pass that on to the others. I would imagine the reason that they aren't allowing *any* player interviews for the Thorns investigation is that they don't really know who might have been a victim.


ixodioxi

Yeah that part is curious. Both the NWSL and the NWSLPA requested that. Although I wonder if they wanted to wait until the NWSL's investigation has concluded first?


db0606

Minor point but the NSWL and NWSLPA "investigations" are actually just a single joint investigation. The other investigation out there is the USSF investigation.


ixodioxi

Yeah that part is curious. Both the NWSL and the NWSLPA requested that. Although I wonder if they wanted to wait until the NWSL's investigation has concluded first?


peacefinder

I would expect them to circle back once player interviews are complete if anything new should arise. But for now it seems like an order of operations issue? Who knows. If the players are good with it at this stage then I’m content too.


quesocaliente

I feel the same.


terrorllama

I would venture a guess, that because it was an investigation into the "business operations", player interviews weren't required or necessary.


SpoSeaPDX

The statement says the players were not allowed to be interviewed at the request of the NWSL and the NWSLPA. If I'm to guess, those orgs probably want to complete any interviews they intend before allowing the FO's investigator to request interviews (which the statement says the players can refuse).


UncleTouchesHere

Well who is TA supposed to be angry at now?!


ixodioxi

They’ll make up something


FalafelBall

The front office still hasn't said anything, and they lied about conducting a thorough investigation (no players interviewed) and sharing the results when its done (front office hasn't even acknowledged the 'investigation' is done)


ixodioxi

You do know that there is also the NWSL/NWSLPA's investigations right?


FalafelBall

The front office still hasn't said shit lol What even is this statement? No players were interviewed? "Internal review of business operations?" The players "recognize" that GW has been reinstated? This reads like a statement that either went through front office approval or involved a bunch of players who disagree about whether they are ok with this or not. The phrasing throughout is suspiciously vague, sounds like it went through a lot of edits and parsing


RCTID1975

You continue to display why the FO and TA rift exists. > The front office still hasn't said shit If the FO released this info, you'd just be posting that it's a cover up. > No players were interviewed? Specifically requested by the players union. What do you want done there? > The players "recognize" that GW has been reinstated? Yes, as in "We're satisfied by this investigation and are happy to work with him again" > This reads like a statement that either went through front office approval Oh, ok. So even though it came directly from the players mouths, it's still some kind of FO cover-up I'll reiterate this again. You're part of the problem. If the players are satisfied and happy, stop pushing your own private agenda


FalafelBall

> If the FO released this info, you'd just be posting that it's a cover up. I love a good strawman where you argue against something I never said and is a fictional scenario you made up. Thanks for saying that first so I know I don't even need to bother reading the rest of your comment edit: I had to look >Yes, as in "We're satisfied by this investigation and are happy to work with him again" The irony of you telling me to listen to the players. They didn't say that. If they wanted to say that, they would've. Either you are Gavin Wilkinson's mom or dumb as a pile of bricks if you think that's what "we recognize the reinstatement of Gavin Wilkinson" means, holy fuck lol


ixodioxi

Serious question. What kind of statement would the FO makes that would make you happy?


RCTID1975

> What kind of statement would the FO makes that would make you happy? "we're all quitting" is the only thing that would make them happy. Until the next FO comes in and then they do it all over again.


FalafelBall

A statement like two months ago that said "We understand the importance of getting this right and we remain committed to completing a thorough investigation... blah blah blah" The problem is, they didn't even conduct a real investigation, which explains their radio silence on that. But there are certainly better ways they could've handled it. What hasn't served them and continues not to serve them is silence and obfuscation


ixodioxi

You didn’t answer my question.


FalafelBall

Then you're illiterate.


ixodioxi

Again. You didn’t answer my question.


FalafelBall

You're the moron who said people who care about sexual assault aren't "real fans" and Merritt Paulson liked your tweet. I don't need to engage in bad-faith discussions with a bootlicking dipshit.


SpoSeaPDX

It's sad that you judge people who choose not to join your rush to judgment and vehement hatred for the Timbers/Thorns FO as being "bootlicking dipshits." It must be difficult to be so negative and judgmental all the time. Since you alleged that ixodioxi "s*aid people who care about sexual assault aren't "real fans" and Merritt Paulson liked your tweet*," I just went and found the tweet. It starts with MP tweeting after the MLS Final: "*This team. These players. This staff. They gave everything. Absolutely love them*." A keyboard warrior like yourself responded: "*Stfu and sell the team asshole*." ixodioxi responded that that person, saying: "*Id rather be an actual fan and support the team instead of a fake fan like you though*." The only connection between ixodioxi's tweet and your belief that he "said people who care about sexual assault aren't real fans" is your toxic willingness to judge anyone and everyone who doesn't share your precise viewpoint as being evil.


FalafelBall

...Why are these "non-real fans" unhappy with the front office? Try to rub two brain cells together and maybe you can figure it out.


ixodioxi

Maybe because everything isn't black and white like you claim. I have always been in the logic that we should support exactly what the players want and demanded. Can you show me where the players demanded that MP sells the team? Where they demanded that Gavin resigns or be fired? No, they have never said that. You decided to make it about yourself and completely ignores what the players have actually said. I have never once said I support sexual assault or think we should ignore it. Maybe you should actually start listening to the players instead of ignoring them.