where u at on the friendly scale?? (from arrayseven)
By - thelivingm3m3yt
With so many people in the middle (like myself), wouldn't that make TF2 "balance" as it is? I mean I don't really care about changes but I think where TF2 is rn is already good enough. And that's saying alot with bot problem going around and Valve negligence to care about the game anymore. (pardon my english)
3/4 + 0.
"Higher skilled veteran" who casually enjoys TF2, plays for their team's objective but will happily join a conga.
Unless someone on the enemy team is pissing me off with toxic communications, then it's 5 time to make them lose, lol.
Same. I don’t normally play to win but just to have fun or increase my strange counts but I love doing friendly stuff as well. Also, I want to complete contracts but I’m not the best at the game, lol
That was kinda what Array discussed in their video. The folks on the positive end of the scale care about game balance, whereas folks on the negative side don't really care either way, so it makes more sense to make balance changes for the people who care.
Well, the thing is that people's perception of themselves doesn't indicate what they're actually doing, and this scale isn't accurate either.
I mean, the description of "Modernist" is incredibly vague and could itself be divided into more categories.
> Casually enjoys TF2's gameplay
Who doesn't? Even comp players will relax in Casual sometimes.
> enjoys the silly things that will happen
So do I, I'll laugh at ragdolls or absurd deaths and whatnot. I still wouldn't put myself in that category.
> Will play their best
What does "play their best" mean? Does it mean "will go after the objective", "will help and stick with their team" or "will chase kills"?
Because in my experience, most people are going to just mess about and *sometimes* go after the cart, if they feel like it. That's not "playing their best", as TF2 is a team-based game. And going 3rd Sniper and 4th Spy on Offense when there's not even a Medic hardly counts as teamplay either.
Then "Uncletopian" describes what I just did, but now it puts emphasis on "higher-skilled veterans" that "enjoy team coordination". Okay, but what about that player with <50 hours and who exclusively plays Medic and Engie to help their team?
What does skill have to do with how they approach the game? I approach any game with the mindset of winning, even if I suck at them. And even in TF2, I mess around a lot (depending on the class), despite me being pretty well-skilled (3.5k hours at least).
That isn't even mentioning that a lot of these options might totally apply to someone, just not all the time. Like, I doubt that the amount of players that go Hoovy would put themselves at -5. I'm pretty sure 99% of them just do it *sometimes*, on a few servers. But not enough to identify themselves as such.
I get what Array was going for, I just think the definitions are getting a bit muddled. This spectrum would have worked better with fewer numbers and descriptions, because when you start defining what they mean, you ironically make things more restrictive. And that's not what a spectrum really is.
Then again, it's a pretty generalizing thing and isn't meant to be taken seriously.
> Who doesn't? Even comp players will relax in Casual sometimes.
I think a lot of Casual TF2 players who jump out and drop hate at any comp players need to learn this. It's not feasible to play in 3rd party comp and pugs all the time, the majority of comp players DO play valve casual or community servers as well. Yet somehow a lot of people think "They never play Casual TF2, they don't know what the game is like or how it works." Which is very very false.
b4nny has almost 22,000 hours on TF2 and has playing since the Beta, he very likely has FAR more hours in valve servers than most people in this thread do. To think he doesn't know what casual is or "wants to destroy it" (despite playing it and having fun frequently on his streams) is a very silly idea.
Also for those who think nothing silly happens in comp, [here's b4nny winning by taunting.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEaEnQCVMak&t=111s)
I know I was (kinda still am) guilty of this too, but I guess people just view players that try hard to win as unable to have any fun whatsoever.
I think it's part of the problem that TF2 players view the game as black and white: either you **ONLY** mess around and go for frags and do conga lines and never glance at the cart, or you **ONLY** go after the objective and communicate with your team. No inbetween. But it's a spectrum, like Array tried to communicate.
well going the 3rd or 4th spy is fine if the ally spies/snipers are all bottom scoring. (they'll likely switch off to another class anyway). While you can heal the damage the top two enemy players are causing, sometimes it's better to eliminate them instead, to mitigate the damage. (heck sometimes it's the two top scorers who are holding the team together).
Why is it fine if so many people are actively useless? And just adding on top of that isn't gonna help the team. Also no, in my experience people do *not* switch off to a different class. If they don't realize they're not contributing to the battle in any meaninful way *before* switching to Spy and Sniper, they're not gonna realize it after 5 minutes either.
I mean, the only Spies and Snipers to actually make a different in that regard are ones that are really good, but then we're back to the skill question and how good people think they are vs. how good they really are. Someone might *think* *"Aw yeah I'mma get so many backstabs"*, but then they have 20 deaths and like 3 kills max.
because they would be useless either way? It's fine to be in the 3rd or 4th class because they aren't doing the job of the class. A bad spy can't take out an engineer nest (sometimes uber would take too long, and requires a good pick) A bad sniper can't kill their good sniper. (sniper is the only one that basically counters sniper). The other thing to note is, if someone goes 20 death and 3 kills, they'll likely switch off that class as they aren't having fun dying repeatedly. (unless they're masochistic).
I’m a 1 to negative 2
0 to -1
SPIRIT OF SPARTANS
DEATH AND GLORY
SOLDIERS OF POLAND
SECOND TO NONE
Imma start another song
But THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
#2-3 Gang Rise Up
only if they get the fuck off of borneo
**You can rise harder, brother**
*Gets up out of engineer gaming chair*
Y E S
I wouldn't say, that I'm above average, but the rest fits
2 but minus the skill
More of an 1.5, if the server turns friendly I will join them for a bit and probably leave for a new game with objective or if there are only some friendlies I will taunt with them and go on my way again.
Do you have a big iron on your hip?
Seems like it, why? Have you seen Texas Red?
Nah but I figured you was that ranger sent from arizona
i'm a 1-2 , i will join a conga if properly started, i will ALLWAYS apologize after accidentally killing a friendly, (even if it means i die) and i do like the silliness of the game, however I also really want to improve and eventually start doing competitive matches, I prefer to play on uncletopia and on faceit servers to expose myself to better players, so far I feel pretty good in terms of my skill level, with the ammount of time i have over summer i might actually try playing in a competitive team. (please ignore my username it's not true i swear)
I always leave friendlies alone but fuck your weak ass if you decide to "become friendly" halfway through me beating your ass.
I mean sometimes you'll both just be missing easy shots and its like fuck it, conga.
I will in fact not ignore your username and instead bring it up right now. Also, you do you on the gay furry porn, I won’t judge
look asshole, just because i vigorously masterbate to gay Roofus hentai near hourly doesn't mean i'm gay or a furry.
Yea I’m with you buddy, just because I can only get off to gay furry porn doesn’t mean I’m some kind of gay furry
the fuck is this comment section
I'd say I'm a 1-2 I like playing to win but I'm not gonna go out my way to kill a hoovy that's minding there own business
I'm a 2-3, and I make it my life's work.
* If you make them fight back, you've improved the game
* If you make them ragequit, you've improved the teams
* If you do neither, the screeching noises they make as you persecute them are entertaining.
I would say I’m a 3. I generally take the game seriously, and I enjoy both winning and getting better. The game’s high skill ceiling is a big part of the reason I stuck around for five years. However, I don’t play much comp (not anymore anyway) and I like to screw around with gimmick loadouts every once in a while.
But will you backstab me in a bumper car?
I usually don't kill friendlies unless they're in my way (or if I'm playing Medic and desperately need 50% Uber) .
If I see you in a bumper car, I'll probably stare at you for a few seconds before leaving.
I'm a 1-2
No he means 1 to 2, and is using the dash as a way to say to (if this comment was meant as a joke sorry)
I would rate my self a 0 I like playing by the objective and would happily join a conga mannorobics or rock paper sissors
Also a 1-2, I want to win and would rather have a coordinated and challenging fight against another coordinated team.
But I don't mind, and even like the sillyness, would high five an enemy, and don't kill Hoovies/Spy crabs (friendles).
4, I enjoy taking the game seriously and believe both teams should play to the best of their ability. Trying to improve and that grind for growth is what inspires me.
i am a -2
4-5 I play only comp, mge, dm servers and sometimes jump maps but when friends want to play pubs with me I don't usually kill friendlies
Id call myself a 4 but im still always down for a conga
I'd say I range from -2 to 2 depends on the day really
I'm between -2 and 4, depends on the day, either I play like a god or just go around demopanning
So, still a god?
I am a solid 3 easely
I don’t see “friendlies are just free health”
walking ammo boxes
Post-Objective, I just wanna chill :))
3 or 4. Maybe even 5 if the server is serious
I'd say I'm a mix of modernist and uncle. I play to play, and while I want to learn and win, I also tend to be among the first on my team to hop into a conga or kazotzky lines. Been known to hop on Heavy and just chill. I've had newer/disillusioned people call me "old school" and tell me that "servers being peaceful was back then in the golden days." Maybe so. But I still try to nurture it when the opportunity comes.
-2 and 3
i play the fucking videogame
I can see that from your user flair, mate.
I cant see yours you might not exist
Oh shit, he's ri-
heavy mains be like:
But where you at?
I guess I'm around 2. I'm not very skillful, but I put my best when I play tf2. But I treat friendlies negatevely. I play tf2 to shoot stuff and brawl with other people, and friendlies are basically -1 player to the game, which take away slot preventing the "real" player to join. I don't mind having some goofing around, but playing shooter as vr-chat is beyond me. If you want to just hanging around - go play Second life, or other Sims-ish online game.
And I don't feel bad killing friendlies. Not that I hunt them, I just don't want to spend time trying to distinguish if enemy player is hostile or not. If he's the opposite color - I shoot. Better safe than sorry.
Idk why you getting downvoted for your opinions :/
It's a miracle no one has replied yet saying you're wrong or something
i'm at 1,and i like friendlys :)
in terms of skill probably 4 but my favorite map is also ctf landfall
\-1 to 0
Solid 4, I really enjoy hanging around the community balance servers and Custom Weapons and seeing all the cool crap they come up with. And hey, FaceIt servers have allowed me to play medic again competently. Not really a 6s person but I love non-serious Highlander. I really hope we see a sort of casual competitive scene come about.
Arrayseven clearly hasn't met many highly skilled players, uncletopians at best.
im bad at the game but will always kill a friendly if i see one
Looking at the descriptions, I definitely sit within that Modernist-Uncletopian range.
>"Would be playing GMOD . . ."
Isn't gmod entirely roleplay and roleplay-based servers nowadays? I stopped playing heavily ~10 years ago but the roleplay spam was so bad that there were groups of people who would go around crashing roleplay servers. There were like 4 gamemodes (ZS, TTT, flood, prop hunt. Maybe sled race) that people actually played that weren't based off of darkRP's code or an imitation of it.
I wouldn't say gmod is the kind of game you go to for actual (unbalanced) gameplay like you would with a modded tf2 server.
After scouting the surrounding area and determining there are no urgent threats nearby I go back and kill the friendly, if the server has too many friendlies I queue for another match.
I always kill friendly with the melee, could be dangerous if an enemy showed up and I were out of bullets.
probably like -1 to 1
I’m a 2-3 on the scale
All of the above
I'm on -1 to 1 , I just play normally but if the the server is turning friendly I'll be one the first that starts the katsosky kick
0 to 2, I despise people at 3 to 5 where they become so good at the game they are practically untouchable and they will dominate you for the rest of the match, no fun in that.
Like a -1, I prefer just going around fragging rather than really doing the objective, but I also have fun just messing around as a hoovy
Looking through all the comments (or at least scrolling until I was satisfied), I see most people here are in the modernist range, rarely go past a 2, and I’ve seen only one person say 4-5 is their usual, consistent range. If this is the case, then why did Array want the game balanced around those two levels, when compared to the amount of people who play this game casually, maybe like 1 in 200 people play that way?
I believe another person commented why this is, but basically higher levels care more about balance. While lower levels are more just messinv around and don't care as much about balance.
Cause trickle down balance.
Anywhere from -4 to 3.
While I may be of average skill, I certainly like to challenge myself from time to time, and on the other hand, I like to sit back, kick my feet up, and just rancho relaxo every so often.
Tf2 will become balanced when they remove aimbots
spycrab bots can stay tho
3-4 about 4 years ago, 102 CRITICAL HIT!!! on the 185 hp razorback sniper near a sentry/ "soldier airshot DOUBLE AIRSHOT ohohoho soldier down"/ *double headshots medic with über then taunts*/ outsniping snipers made dopamine go (something funny)
Now -1, I don't know how to play tf2 anymore
I haven't played the game for 2 years
\-1 - 0
I like playing against people, but after some time objective becomes boring and I need a little break.
Then I go hoovy, go around enemy base and when I'm good I go
spy and disable security.
Between -5 and -3
0 but if the whole sever is friendly then 5.
3.5 I'm a hybrid between 3 and 4. Always looking to learn something new, and I like TF2 the best when everyone is trying to win, because that's when things are the most intense.
\-4.5. I am the 3 of trade servers.
4-5 probably. I only play some tf2center, scrims and official's. Haven't played causal since the bot plague started and I don't really like faceit because I can't use shadow play :/
I'm a 5 except I'm absolute dogshit at the game
2-4. I'll engage in some silliness, use shitty weapon loadouts, wear ugly cosmetics and usually ignore friendlies (unless they refuse to give me a sandvich or I need to build a bit of some charge for something or are just standing in the way).
Aside from that though...I have several thousand hours in this game. I know what a conga dance party looks like I've seen dozens of them. I don't see what's fun about standing in a group of other players with our melees out spamming voicelines. If I'm on a map that nobody takes seriously anyways like 2fort or hightower I don't care if we have friendlies on our team as long as teams still feel somewhat balanced. If I'm constantly getting jumped by like 3 people because half my team is across the map idle then yeah it annoys me. Friendlies also bug me when we're on maps with actual fun objectives like Steel or Pier.
-3 to 3. I like to dick around but when push comes to shove I tend to play the objective. If I see a hoovy or other friendly walking around I acknowledge him then go back to playing my role.
I fluctuate between Post-Objective and Uncletopian (-2 to +3). it all depends on how serious I feel like playing on that day.
killing friendlies is funny and awesome
I'm not a comp player but i am a tryhard (the dick one) and i just see friendlys as a free kill i don't kill friendlys if the whole server is a friendly though
Where's the EZ EZ EZ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) after killing a friendly and complaining after getting called out? (Im 0)
Modernist (does go on occasional workers servers like x10 or randomiser but sticks to casual or occasionally uncketopia subpar skill but usually prefers fighting)
0 to 2
Sometimes i just wanna tryhard but the server is friendly, i'll join them, not kill them and stay a while, but i'd rather be shooting my guns.
Probably a 3
1, probably. I wish I could improve at the game so I might go a bit to the right eventually but who knows, I'll definetely stay casual as hell though.
0-1 , when I see a friendly I don’t kill I just interact for 2 seconds and then play the objective
0 if most of the server is friendly I am too, if not I play the objective
Put me at 1
1 - 2 for sure
Modernist I think
0 is pretty broad so I’m not surprised how many people fall under that
I’m a Modernist
2 or 3? I don't really like this scale
1-2. but the point of TF2 is that you don't have to be friedly or try-hard you can shift between the 2 as the game goes on :)
Modernist is the way to go, because I stand with Zesty, hes right about some things
Definitely either a 1 or 2.
Uncletopian, 2-3 ish
I don't like the implication that I cant tryhard in randomizer
Def an uncletopian for me.
definitely from 0 to 2 depending on the mood
I like the find the competitive use in the most stupid shit so I guess that just makes me 0 if we are combining two opposite extremes
I leave friendlies alone unless they get in my way, they’ll just have to deal with collateral damage
I'm about a 1, maybe 0. There are times where I'll do comp and then I get serious. But I'm distrustful of official valve comp, and I've had less and less of a good time on official valve casual
1. Bots. This is the main reason for my distrust of comp and my declining fun on casual. It's a bit hard of a problem and can ruin.
2. Amount of players. This combined with bots kills my appetite for competitive. The queue times are enormous even for us and eu servers.
4. Player kindness. Seriously, what the fuck is up with the tf2 community? I thought yall would be nicer to Trans people. But I will get back to back games with diehard transphobes. It's fucking ridiculous that I can't be myself In my favorite game without being harassed and told Im delusional. Have any of you actually looked at a medical research paper? Trans people exist for no other reason than they are Trans.
0 fits me perfectly! I really enjoy it when I’m playing well, but I can’t resist a conga.
It heavily depends on the match and how I’m feeling for example I get a good match everyone’s trying there hardest I’ll attack very competitively but sometimes I just feel like being friendly so 0 if you round it off
im a 4 and I dont like to admit it...
0 to 1
im between 0-1
1. Always. I play TF2 for a more layed-back meh experience, but as a medic main (And the designated Healer in every game I play) what I consider to be "Layed-back Casual Experience" is a bit more serious than what, say, a Soldier would consider. I'm always up for a Conga, have my Squeezebox and Sitting taunts prepared for goofing off whenever.
arrayseven and zesty jesus currently in a back and forth argument about casual vs competitive, featuring this graph
2 or 3
+6 If you aren't competitive you are literally Hitler and causing the death of the game
-6 If you aren't friendly you are literally Hitler and causing the death of the game
Somewhere from 1 to 2.5. I try to be good at the game but I'm way better at MvM than TF2 proper.
Like a 0 or 1
0 and maybe 2.
0, but I can see myself becoming a 1 someday
I'd say I'm a 1 I like my games competitive and I love having my actions being the difference between wining and loosing but I also like the fact that tf2 has a friendly population and they make surviving as a medic possible especially when your team refuses to help you so for all the friends reading this thanks so much for making life as a medic just a little bit more pleasant
Im not sure where i fit. Maybe 0? I do play to win but i also join in on being friendly if someone else is. But i also enioy using weapons you dont often see used. Or being annoying/stupid, like fat scout, melee heavy, guillotine wrap assassin scout, Cuntsman sniper etc.