By - Sisiwakanamaru
I had absolutely no idea about any of this prior to watching the show. I found myself curious and began googling about it after I saw it mentioned and it seemed like a pretty major event for me to have little to no knowledge of
I learned about it first on Doctor Who. We don't seem to learn any non-European world history in modern times.
The partition episode was one of the best. The actress who played her great grandmother was mesmerizing, beautiful and an amazing actress. The chaos of the train station was palpable.
Thought the series started really strong but became hit or miss towards the end. The partition and wedding episodes were my favorites.
It was a really good drama, though I did miss the rest of the show's awesome cast in the two Pakistan episodes (and the red daggers and their strangely amazing hologram presentation, along with the pointless chase which ensued, was a bit of a miss for me).
Still, I'm grateful to have gotten more exposure to the concept of partition, which I previously knew almost nothing about (and again only through television, where a Dr Who episode did a somewhat similar story about a British-Pakistani (or maybe it's the other way around) time traveller meeting their younger grandmother during partition).
By the way the actresses name is Mehwish Hayat. She's one of the biggest actresses in Pakistan.
What's with these weird ass comments, I enjoyed learning about a part of history, people on here can be such weirdos.
Right? I thought the partition storyline was actually the most solid part.
Yeah. It's sort of like Marvel's response to the Watchmen miniseries calling back to the Tulsa massacre. It's a historical fact that I never knew about beforehand that I'm glad to now know.
It was good, but I thought it disrupted the flow of the work. I thought there should’ve been a bigger focus on New Jersey and Kamala’s supporting cast for Season 1 - Pakistan being a good foundation for a Season 2.
That is kind of what happened in the comics as well. The Pakistani stuff, which included with partition, was a later arc.
It wouldn't feel all that weird if they had more episodes. This show needed more time to expand on the bad guys, expanding on the history, and expanding the world building. 6 episodes was too few for the story they wanted to tell. probably would have added maybe 1-2 more episodes in the season to make it flow better.
I haven't seen the show, but I'm curious who "the bad guys" are in the partition. Because my understanding is it was lots of factors and factions at fault. Hard to handle something like that on TV.
The show doesn't really go into it much. The focus is less on "Who is to blame?" than on the ways Partition affected families and their descendants.
Seems like the smart route to go. How it affected people and how it still affects them today is likely a more meaningful story!
Very cool to know this historical event is on screen
I think the bad guys were the British. . . . . the people who tore up and redistributed the world after WWII. It seems like it was terrible for a lot of people, but it at least was better than Israel and Palestine (that seems to be the closest comparison historically, although I could be really wrong.).
I did some reading up on it and found that's only partially true. The Pakistani leader wanted partition whereas the Indian leadership wasn't necessarily in favor of it. My takeaway was that where the Brits truly made a mistake was leaving without a plan -- they left everyone to fend for themselves.
Doctor Who did a story on the Partition about 4 years ago, in "The Demons of Punjab". They only had 40-50 minutes to cover the same topic, but I thought that was a better than what Ms Marvel did. Perhaps its because they only had a single episode so they focused on just the most terrible part of the Partition. As a result, their story struck harder with me.
Is this show still on air, lmao
To be fair, the Pakistani stuff, which included the partition, did happen in the comics during a later arc: https://i.hipinpakistan.com/primary/2019/01/5c35c7c8a2128.jpg
Have you even seen a Marvel movie before?
The X-Men movies are massive allegories for minorities being treated differently.
Ironman was all about somebody who supported the wars in the middle east realizing he was being manipulated by sociopathic American businessmen who'd sell to both sides to make a buck, who literally quoted lines from the time like 'collateral damage' as he tossed American civilians at Tony to show how heartless the phrase was for those who just couldn't emphasize before.
Captain America Winter Soldier was all about how if you set up a massive surveillance and prosecution network, you never know who else might use it in ways you didn't expect.
Spiderman Far From Home was all about 'fake news' and how some people will believe what they're told to believe. The antagonist literally says this line out loud at some point.
Black Panther was about how if the world shits on a minority endlessly, eventually they're going to want to burn the world down.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier was heavily themed around how messed up it might feel for a black guy to be wearing the stars and stripes proudly, especially given the 'ancient' history which some people alive today still feel the heavy trauma from.
Jessica Jones is all about an entitled dude stalking a woman who he thinks will just 'get it' if he keeps controlling her.
Black Panther is for idiots so I have no idea why you want to praise that.
Man the mixture of being a bit special and arrogantly over-confident are always ugly. Imagine thinking that frothing is admirable or anything but embarrassing for other humans to see.
1. Exploring these events was an element of the beloved comic series the show was based on.
2. The plotline was interesting, relevant to the protagonist’s heritage, relevant to the development of the villains, and exposed a lot of American viewers to an important historical event they may never have learned about in school.
3. In what way do you believe they had no understanding of the events?
>3. In what way do you believe they had no understanding of the events?
It's kinda hand waved away as a random whim of the British before leaving when in reality it was something a lot of people, particularly Muslims, in British India were in favor for and had been fighting for politically for a while.
My understanding of the partition was (and please correct me if I am wrong) that, while many Muslims had been fighting for the idea of the Partition, the actual implementation of the Partition was down to the British, and they did it in a way that was poorly thought out and hurt countless people.
One of the main issues with the idea Britain could have done any appreciably better job of Partition is that, in actual fact, British power in India was evaporating completely while the negotiations over independence were happening. The British government (including Mountbatten, who was acting as mediator between Nehru and Jinnah in the negotiations) were keen to keep the impression of an organised and planned withdrawal from India.
Very quickly into his stint, Mountbatten realised that, save for the ground immediately under any British soldiers, British control was over. Massacres were happening even before Partition was announced. It was essentially a matter of picking Partition and the shitshow of what was once the Raj segregating itself into a muslim nation and hindu nation, or simply announcing that it would all become independent as one country, and likely immediately tear itself apart into two anyway through a brutal sectarian civil war. The British therefore picked Partition, and effected a quick military withdrawal to get the symbols of British power out before it became obvious that the substance was gone long before the actual date of independence.
To have done Partition 'well', Britain couldn't have just taken more time and organised protected transport to the new nations while it was still in control. They would have functionally had to reassert control over India with a massively increased troop presence as the country spiralled further into sectarian violence. It would have been a major military operation at a time the country was trying to demobilise and financially retrench after the total mobilisation of WWII. There's fairly good evidence that the surge in military spending as a result of the Korean War stunted the UK's economic recovery in a way that saw its growth fall behind Europe and the US for the rest of the post-war consensus (so roughly until Thatcher). That was for a smaller operation than enforcing an orderly Partition would have been, and with three more years of recovery than the UK would have had in 1947 - in fact, as India and Pakistan were gaining their independence in August, Britain was spiralling deeper into a currency crisis that would culminate with the UK suspending the free convertibility of Sterling to Dollars barely a month after reintroducing convertibility in the first place. Even if the political will to commit to a gruelling military policing operation on a sub-continental scale had existed, it's not a given that the British state in 1947 actually had the capacity to mount one.
That's definitely true but also hindsight is 20/20. I don't think the Partition would ever have been smooth, especially at that scale.
Looking at Eastern Europe post-WWI and even at smaller scales it can be messier and bloodier.
Definitely fair. That level of people shifting would’ve been messy anyways, even with a tip-top team of organizers.
That's a really fair point.
That said, overall I thought the show handled it pretty well. Showing the chaos at the train station really puts the situation in perspective.
especially for a literal PG version of it. yeah it was absolutely horrific and worse in reality, but for a basic introduction to something not a lot of people are familiar with, they did a great job
They protrayed it as solely the British being the cause for partition. They barely touched the religious conflict. Or any of the various political factions at the time.
I don't have a problem with a partition storyline. It just wasn't right in 1 season when they try to go over other political messages.
I think they deserve some slack. It was a massively complicated moment in history, and a full discussion of the politics was entirely beyond the scope of the show.
As a white middle class family from Canada, we came into the show with only a cursory knowledge of this history (and for my kids it was literally the first time they had heard of it).
I think they did a great job introducing the history to a wider audience, and shared a lot of insight into the history of an important community in my city.
I mean, we sat down to watch a tween-age Marvel show, not a south Asian version of Chernobyl.
> Exploring these events was an element of the beloved comic series the show was based on.
The partition is literally in the comics.
It's like one issue, if that.
So that's a yes. It's either in there or not at all, it isn't some kind of Mandela Effect, "not really" is outright nonsense.
Again, it's less than one issue. It's barely there and definitely not to the extent of the show. It's like a flashback sequence of Kamala's grandmother moving to Karachi.
So that's a "yes it is in the comics" because less than one appearance in a comic book would be zero.
I know I'm being pedantic but your need to be facetious because they chose to expand one part of the established canon in a TV show adaptation is completely baffling.
No, it entirely supports my assertion that they took this one tiny aspect from the comics and chose to expand it in a way that I feel was shoehorned and unnecessary, so by definition the character's heritage and race dictate and determine the story.
Couldn’t disagree more
Sigh. Maybe one day we'll get poc characters whose stories aren't determined or constrained by their race and background. If Kamala was a white girl, she'd get to have all the cool and fun adventures of a Tony Stark, but because she's a brown Muslim girl she gets stuck with a weirdly shoehorned history lesson.
Her race, religion etc. are important parts that play into her story in the comic books and one of the reasons her original run was so widely lauded.
It isn't shoehorned in, it's done by design.
Never to the extent of the show, though. In the show it's like that aspect defines the character in a way that never happened in the comics.
Except she’s not defined by her religion though.
But her entire heritage and race play a key, pivotal role in the show to the point that we get that weird plot detour.
They sure do, but her character is still not defined by it.
Also, that wasn’t a weird plot detour.
Valkyrie, heimdall, falcon, wong, kang
Only Falcon and Wong are actually poc in the source material, and one has no stories of his own and the other's are pretty political and deal with the subject of race (I love that, though, his Captain America run by Nick Spencer is excellent).
Kangs a poc, he's blue
…blue lives matter?
Why hasn't Amanat been cancelled yet? If half the stories of her sexual harassment style of management are true she should have been metoo'd out of the building completely by now.
Maybe Disney is just waiting for enough time to pass to afford distance between her and Ms. Marvel, after spending all those calories promoting her and it as one in the same over the last year before going radio silent between trailer and premier.
turns out not even Muslims cared about it, they were fine with Iron Man