T O P

Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

didimao0072000

lol. that's like saying crack and heroin is nearing a reputational point of no return...


Way_Unable

Tbh the threat is going to be on their Future members gained per year. The reputation hit can leave them with an aging out group of users with lessening market value on their information.


No_Specialist_1877

In which they buy whatever company the youths are using? Seems like their whole gameplan. Feel like they're well aware they have to keep adding platforms even if just solely because kids don't want to be on the same platform as parents on top of this.


sharrkzilla

Yeah I see so many comments saying Facebook is aging out and will slowly die but they own *Instagram* ffs. They still have that demographic firmly in their grip.


mydogisthedawg

I’m about ready to drop Instagram. Logging on feels like opening up one big advertisement and it feels tiring.


JagerBaBomb

Just wait till they buy Tik Tok.


kadenjahusk

HA that'll be the day. Chinese company selling one of the most lucrative platforms in existence to Zuckerberg would be a thing to behold.


point_breeze69

It’s not even because of the money. The CCP will never give up that data provider.


Tyhgujgt

I'm step ahead and never opened TikTok


Fry98

Well yeah, because you're the aging demographic. That's kinda the point. Doesn't matter you've never opened TikTok. All the kids certainly have.


8dogsinatrenchcoat

TikTok is all the rage with my teenage students. I'm in my early 30s and can't be bothered. But I also know several people in their 50s and 60s who love TikTok. I don't get it, but I guess there are a couple target demographics.


niftycake

It has algorithms that push whatever content you find interesting. Mine's filled with niche music, archeology, anthropology and a bunch of other weird shit. It's moreso like reddit than instagram or FB in that respect.


Badoponion

Anti trust legislation should stop that from happening. *Should.*


Pvt_Lee_Fapping

^ This. "Facebook" might go away, but the people running it will just build something new, or buy somebody else's product. "Facebook" isn't just the social media platform from 2007; it's also Instagram, Whatsapp, GIPHY, and Oculus VR; [among others](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook,_Inc.#Mergers_and_acquisitions).


chevymonza

It's the Nestle of the internet.


_xGizmo_

If only companies cared about any of their future prospects beyond the quarterly green..


GamerY7

yeah, everyone but the actual users of Facebook realise that


doritodink5

3 billion unique monthly users lol


banana-reference

How many are bots/farms though...unique means nothing imo


the_jewgong

The whole thing is a farm.


kab0b87

Not since Farmville went away


MarkusAk

I miss Farmville being the worst part about facebook


chompz914

Pepperidge farm remembers.


davedcne

Considering 3 billion people use facebook, I think we stand a better chance of getting rid of crack and heroin.


NeuronalDiverV2

The outage earlier this week showed pretty clearly how many people care about Facebook. Supposedly everybody hates FB, but somehow *every* news outlet talked about the outage, hell even the evening news in Germany talked about it for two days. I know people who thought the *Internet* was down for them. Reputation means jack shit as long as this happens.


Sedewt

Well that’s mostly because of Instagram and WhatsApp which yeah owned and controlled by Facebook


Smart_Resist615

Yeah for the record, anti-trust or anti-monopoly action against Facebook has the potential to break it up into smaller companies, ala the break up of the Bell operating company.


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notreally_bot2428

hey, stop saying bad things about heroin! it's fentanyl that ruined it for everyone!


olGlassCleaner

My mom continues to defend Facebook as if she couldn't survive without it


So-_-It-_-Goes

My dad made a joke about how when fb went down all the kids had to go outside for the first time in years and I had to explain to him that kids don’t use Facebook. His friends do.


SynthStudentFlex

My 12 year old cousin called it "OPA" meaning old people app. He thought he was straight up murdering my grandma with that diss.


namiageha

Some say grandma still hasn’t recovered


GabeEnix

Some say granny caught misinformation fever from Facebook and died due to real-life complications. Edit: thanks to the kind patron of reddit that gave me an award. Although, you should be spending your money on stuff that will eradicate misinformation fever! ;D


namiageha

You just killed this man’s grandmother


Doctor_Dysentery

If only she had followed the secret treatment plan of six cartons of orange juice and a steady stream of advertisements based on her secretly recorded conversations


Stev_k

Don't get the Outer Planets Alliance involved with your cousin's grandma. They don't want anything to do with Inners.


kabelman93

Funny enough opa means grandfather in German.


wynoforever28

In my experience, it was only the 40+ age group that cared


moaiii

I'm 40+. I'm enjoying watching this slow motion train wreck. Fakebook will go down in history as a stain on humanity. Unfortunately it will take down a lot of what were once good products along with them (like oculus and whatsapp).


youknowiactafool

Seriously. When Facebook went down all the adults had to deal with their reality for the first time in years.


CanuckianOz

I would’ve gone mental like 7 or 8 years ago but now I was moreso curious about how long the outage would go for so occasionally checked. Half of the feed is ads, 40% is people reposting stupid memes like “YESSS THATS ME” and there’s maybe 5-10% interesting things happening with friends such as new babies or marriage. The rest is absolute garbage. A couple years ago I found myself constantly engaged on Facebook with fuckwit acquaintances making racist or extremist comments and found that after I deleted them and just kept scrolling, I stopped opening the app. It’s designed to invoke incredibly negative emotions.


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Apracadapra

*Shrugs* Conservatives are more then welcome to mandate paid time off so people have more time to enjoy the outdoors and enact policies that don't destroy the outdoors at any time.


instantlyregretthat

Funny, my mom just told me she deleted her Facebook (sure enough I still see her sharing stuff), so I asked about those, and she was like “oh well I still share the cute stuff.” So I was like “ohh, I get it, you stopped arguing on Facebook! Gotcha”


Sundae-Savings

I’m not insulting your mom here, but I do think this is an example of why that generation has proved to be so problematic for Facebook, and why Facebook is so problematic for them. They just don’t throughly understand it and how it works. My parents too.


8dogsinatrenchcoat

Yeah, my mom is in her late 60s and she likes Facebook. I'm mildly worried for her, she doesn't seem to be able to tell the clickbait from a link to an actual article. She's a smart person, but I think she just kind of gives up with anything she feels is tech related... can't distinguish between a text and an email or do what is to me pretty basic troubleshooting for a program or internet connection problem. I have tried gently teaching her these things for like 25 years but she is pretty susceptible to thinking it's a magic box.


vocation

Telling my dad to google it was hard but one day he solved a very technical problem and called me to let me know he figured it out himself with Google. Worth.


Ha-sheesh

This is so funny to me, because I'm old enough to remember when every teenager went from myspace to facebook, and it was our parents who complained about us bein addicted to it.


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penguininfidel

While somehow Doom didn't turn us into violent psychopaths


Ya_like_dags

RIP AND TEAR


DevelopedDevelopment

Social Media platforms benefit from becoming centralized hubs. Everyone spent so much time trying to get their family on Facebook so they can see them again that they can't imagine another Facebook


FulkNera

You should hear my wife launch into a fervent defense of it. Like a junkie.


babybopp

I left 2018 had it since 2005. Just became shittier and shittier ... Constant need to validate your life to others....


Poop-ethernet-cable

The 2016 election is what convinced me facebook was garbage. Never even missed it afterwards.


Slapinsack

Even lurking can be destructive if you only do it to silently condemn the behaviors of others.


GhostShark

Well they do intentionally manipulate people emotionally, that response is what hooks people into Facebook and ragebait news programs. Addiction is real. It’s not “like” a junkie, effectively she is


phattyfresh

Poor and angry people are completely addicted to Facebook, it’s not going anywhere. Take it from someone living in WV. The people here act like it’s the last bastion of free speech, not a company selling your data to the highest bidder


squeevey

Not to mention everyone still using Instagram and Facebook's other properties – I'm looking at you Giphy and WhatsApp. Edit: Signal is a great alternative to WhatsApp. You are not STUCK using WhatsApp. You have the power to switch to alternatives.


bigmac1122

Giphy is owned by Facebook? Fuck. Anyone have any recommendations for a replacement?


TheLabMouse

Well, I know of Tenor, which is owned by Google... Maybe gfycat?


UniqueSnowflake51

Oh damn Tenor is owned by Google? Ffs is anything safe anymore? :(


Brandon658

Only when it's first starting. Once it is of real value someone big will probably buy it out.


revile221

See: Instagram & Whatsapp


stifle_this

IG was more of a strategic acquisition to erase a major competitor. They've even said as much in leaked emails.


revile221

For sure, at least initially. Now it's a cashcow. Smart move on their part taken from Microsoft's 90s playbook.


shambollix

I think that's why they bought it but when the upcoming generation shunned Facebook because their parents were on it they saw ig as the way to cature them.


stifle_this

To a degree. That is why they copy all the features Snapchat makes now. But initially it was a platform to expand their ad serving ability. That has been a massive revenue driver. IG ads have amazing conversion rates compared to other social media platforms.


boi1da1296

The more you find out sho owns who and bankrolls what, the more you realize divesting from these megacorps is nearly impossible. I can't see this changing without government intervention.


plooped

Vote for antitrust enforcement.


Prime157

[Had someone defending Amazon just last night.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/q2h0fe/_/hfmrwa3) "Expansion isn't Monopoly" is the gist.


Funkit

Uhhh…redgifs?


theonly_brunswick

It's trash though lol


WifeKilledMy1stAcct

It still works better than reddits image and gif platform


sector3011

Even if they lose the US market they still have a near monopoly in many other countries. Facebook isn't going away


Ulu-Mulu-no-die

Not to mention a lot of people using Facebook don't event know about all the scandals surrounding it, because they don't read about them, or simply don't care. Several colleagues of mine are like that, there's no hope of convincing them to care about their privacy.


MichaelMyersFanClub

"I have nothing to hide."


[deleted]

it infuriates me when people say this. as snowden said, saying that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about the right to free speech because you have nothing to say. it's asinine.


Flobro4

That may have been from a speech, of public statement, but it was definitely restated in his book, **Permanent record**. I didn't love all of it, but i was really, really impressed with that book. As someone in technology, I thought he provided a very digestible explanation of exactly how the tech worked, what it allowed the NSA to do, and what he did to expose it. And, you know, the fact he did it fully aware he was committing high treason because it was for the betterment of citizens. I also fully advocate Signal, which he's very involved in.


FreehandBirdlime

Or as I've seen a disappointing number of times recently, "if I felt the need to hide my actions, I would take that as a sign I shouldn't be doing that." My sanity is very grateful I've gotten over my need to fight with people over things like this.


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Otagian

They say that, yet get really angry when I try to watch them shower.


ptolemyofnod

"I need privacy not because my actions are suspect, but because your judgment and intentions are." Forgot who said it.


TheBigPhilbowski

>Not to mention a lot of people using Facebook don't event know about all the scandals surrounding it, because they don't read about them But the scandal stories should have showed up in their fb fee.... Oh, I see the problem now.


toastmannn

Ironically a lot of people only get news from Facebook.


PrinceBert

Trying to get away from Whatsapp can be incredibly difficult when there are group conversations with various family and friend groups. If I knew where to start it would be easy enough to get my close friends to switch but if I asked my mum to use something else she'd still use it to talk to work colleagues, and ex work colleagues on WhatsApp. Then there's my wife side of the family, aunt's, uncle's, their children and others in their lives. To a large extent, Whatsapp has got many of us by the balls and isn't letting go even if we ask very nicely. That being said - what is the best alternative to Whatsapp? Is it just good old SMS? or does anyone genuinely think there's a good replacement that will never become a sub of Facebook?


stufff

Signal is fantastic and it's extremely privacy focused. The CEO regularly blogs about how they basically have no information to give the DoJ when they get requests, does teardowns of equipment police use to snoop on phones, etc.


dontknowbilliejean

I know it doesn’t work for everyone but my rule, since ditching all social media (except Reddit) has been if you want to get ahold of me, you’re going to have to text or call me. It’s worked just fine for me for the last 6+ years.


IceNFire

Have you tried Signal?


-The_Blazer-

I have Signal and no one I know uses it. It's insanely hard to get people to switch their preferred social networking apps.


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AnukkinEarthwalker

Yea now is a probably peak as far as time to send out signal invites


Rusty_Red_Mackerel

We should exchange numbers. We will finally have someone to talk to on Signal.


the_second

I have Signal and most of my friends use it. IT bubble.


My_name_is_Chalula

Every bidder FTFY


IT_Chef

Uggggg...my wife has family like this. Her super trashy WV extended family airs their grievances for all the world to see, especially their internal family drama.


foggy-sunrise

I have a friend who has a 10 year old. He posts shit on FB all the time, like, "This kid is ruining my life! We've been through 3 in home counselors this year already and now [first name] fucking *bit* the new guy! 🤬" And like, dude... Your kid knows how to use the internet better than you. No doubt he read that shit. No doubt you've done nearly irreparable harm to the trust in your relationship. Was it worth the 3 likes and pity party responses?


IT_Chef

The total lack of filter/lack of self awareness is astonishing isn't it?


zomgitsduke

Micro-celebrity. Basically people feel the need to entertain and provide content for others. It tickles the ego.


disgruntled_pie

I will never understand why people use social media like this. Does your first grade teacher really need to know that you went to a strip club and got crabs? I just… The world doesn’t need to hear every single thought you’ve ever had, and we especially don’t need to associate it with your name and face. Social media has made it really hard to get along with people. Life was better when I didn’t know that my uncle thinks Jews created COVID. It was better when I didn’t know that the kid who sat next to me in chemistry class thinks that gay marriage should be illegal. It was better when I didn’t know that my high school principal has a confederate flag tattoo. I didn’t need to know any of this, and I wish I didn’t. How the fuck am I supposed to treat these people with respect anymore? We should know less about each other. Good fences make good neighbors.


zomgitsduke

But how else do you mimic celebrities? The paparazzi goes after them for what color shoes they wear, so why not follow in their footsteps by volunteering that information?


Resolute002

I wish we could go back to it being just that. But not, it's also using that data to reinforce all the negatives and encourage bitter endless conflict.


Zoloir

it's because a flame war is the most engaging thing you'll see online, which facebook correlates engaging to good, so hey flame wars for everybody!


Sookahsookah

I haven't read or heard "flame war" in like a decade. Where'd all the time go.


Resolute002

It's funny how the term has fallen by the wayside and yet essentially every social media post has one now because of this engagement situation.


open_door_policy

If the entire dog park is covered in a layer of poop, you no longer need to point out individual turds.


Rudy-Ellen

And all of their profiles are public I’m willing to bet.


dribrats

The number of people complaining about Facebook while still on Facebook is too damn high # quit Facebook


KennyFulgencio

that is so weird, similar to poor rural people thinking a NYC real estate developer with a gold toilet is the paragon of their values... I'm seeing it, and I still can't believe it. Cognitively I know how powerful propaganda is supposed to be, and I'm seeing it happen, and still struggle to accept that it's really twisting people's beliefs and allegiances that far, that fast.


LupusLycas

He shares their prejudices, and seeing someone "important" do so publicly is immensely validating to them. They will go to the ends of the earth for him.


first__citizen

I like how Facebook started, as a in exclusive for college kids and then by invitation only to become a hillbilly first choice to get angry and vent racism.


quickblur

I was in college in 2005 when it was coming out and it was a lot of fun! Just a place to post pictures of the stupid shit we would do over the weekend. A couple years later when my mom added me as a friend, I realized it had run its course.


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pegothejerk

Man, you skipped the best/worst part, it started in an ivy league university as a way for rich asshole dudes to rank how hot the girls are.


Risley

This is how I remember it. It’s just so different now.


dognus88

The *great* thing about selling data is you can sell it not just to the highest bidder, but to multiple buyers.


bryansj

The big clue to me that something was overly fishy is the Trump bans. The moment he was banned from these services I'd expected him to tell his followers to delete their accounts to punish the companies. He's actually smart enough to realize how much they help push his cause without him. If the supporters dropped it he'd become even less relevant. The moment the companies ban pushing this crap he'll then tell them to jump ship. That or whenever his dream MAGA social network ever takes hold, which will be never. Can't bring in new recruits if all you have is a circle jerk love fest.


Reasonable-Ad9987

Good. Let them die. thanks 4 silver stranger


infiltrateindustries

Too addictive, it can’t die alone. Something must cut its head before it regenerates


BrewingRunner

Maybe someone can show how Facebook helps sex trafficking like backpage.


PricklyyDick

Backpage wasn’t a $900 billion company. Those type of things aren’t as frowned about when you approach the trillion club


CombatMuffin

They won't. People hate Bank of America, and they still use the services. Good luck killing Whatsapp when it is the most widespread communication service in history.


Aeroslin_2020

Facebook is long past a reputational point of no return. Social media was like giving a nuclear explosive to a room full of children. Our civilization is not ready for it. The masses are not capable of using it properly. Instead it's a tool for manipulating minds, shifting perceptions, and triggering emotion.


TheBuddhistTraveler

And dinner recipes.


scottieducati

When did they have a positive reputation…? Pepperidge Farm doesn’t even remember that.


messem10

Pre 2010 FB was a social network not a mess of news. You went on to see how friends were doing.


JohnnyDarkside

I kept it around for longer than I needed to just because it was also a great way to schedule shit with more than a few people. Just create the event, send invites, everyone gets reminders with pertinent info. It bridged the gap for those with different phone types, devices, etc. Then it slowly turned into a way for me to hate the people I used to like as they started voicing these shitty opinions they'd never hinted at when face to face.


TonyzTone

Honestly, it’s still pretty good for that. Party invites on FB are a breeze. Why it’s become people’s go-to news site is beyond me.


Frater_Ankara

I miss the old Facebook where people would load up their walls with stupid apps and games; everyone’s page was a mess, but a personalized, light-hearted mess.


darkseidis_

How did we go from harvesting virtual crops to organizing nazi rallies?


rbmk1

So you miss Myspace. We really didn't appreciate those days, or that platform.


entropylove

The introduction of the Like was the end of golden-age Facebook. It decimated actual interaction.


Sexual_tomato

I'd say forcing the non-linear timeline is when the quality went way down. Forcing people to scroll way more and optimizing for "engaging" content incentivized stuff that made people angry. With the linear timeline, you'd scroll until you got to posts you'd seen already and be done for the day. Now a post that was inflammatory 3 days ago will still get brought to the forefront of everyone's feed to get everyone commenting, instead of it dying because it's a week old. The like button was fine because it basically let the person know you read something but you didn't have to think of a reply.


akc250

Yes, I remember how much I hated that change in timeline. It literally changed everything about my fb and nothing was the same ever since. Nobody used it the same way again and I ended up deleting mine.


Independent_Taste894

Yeah, it’s fucking awful. Why the hell am I seeing something from a week and a half ago instead of all of the new posts from today? I already read that, multiple times.


LegitimateSituation4

The same with Instagram. At least you can change the order on FB (from what I can remember). No way to do that anymore on IG. I never liked their forcing me to have their algorithms tell me what's important. Made browsing stale if you "liked" a brief series of things because it'll be all you'll see for the next week.


pmcpaul412

IG will let you know when you are caught up with all unseen posts. But that's really only helpful if you don't follow a lot of people and scroll through it once or twice a day.


dnyank1

> caught up with all unseen posts... that they want you to see. The stuff they can't monetize? They don't care if you see it or not. I *know* I've got a scrolling problem, I'll see that message a few times a day with a feed clogged full of sponsored garbage. But when my friends actually post photos, if I don't *actively* stalk their page, there's a good chance I'll miss it. Sucks.


slfnflctd

The timeline fuckery is probably more than half the reason I walked away from it (I still have an account 'just in case' but I will go months without looking at it and only spend about 5 minutes there when I do). I can't count the number of times my S.O. has tried to show me something they saw earlier and I'm sitting there watching them scroll through pages & pages of garbage without finding it. What a disgusting waste of the limited time we have on this planet. All just for a few more ad dollars. Makes me want to puke.


A_Naany_Mousse

That's right. Same with Twitter too. I actually thought I'd miss Twitter more than Facebook but Twitter was worse. But are sacks of shit though and both implemented timeline fuckery that drove the frequency of engagement, while degrading the quality.


HLPiFlushdMePooKnife

Yeah I memeber this change happening and being frustrated with it ever since and now it’s everywhere. Like button is similar to maybe like a nodding along with a friend when they say something so it think it still works for social interaction IMO


Semi-Hemi-Demigod

For me it was the introduction of their custom sorting algorithm. Prior to that you saw what your friends posted in reverse chronological order. Now I just see news articles it thinks I will like, posts from pages I don't follow it thinks I will like, and only updates from my friends that get a lot of engagement. And it's a lot worse.


esche92

In a way I have the same issue with Netflix too: The algorithm always shows me what it thinks I already like. But I would like to see a variety of choices. Sometimes I also like to watch stuff I hate. I boils down to: Be it news or shows or social media updates I would like to see the whole bunch of new stuff myself and then make selections myself.


Semi-Hemi-Demigod

I really wish Netflix would let users curate things instead of an algorithm. I could make a playlist of all of the best Data episodes of TNG. Or a playlist of movies with Gary Oldman in them to show his acting range. Instead *they* make the selection, and unsurprisingly it's usually stuff they make.


__tony__snark__

Respectfully disagree. The point at which Facebook became worthless to me was the change from chronological timelines to the algorithm-driven whatever-they-initially-called-it. That change is what made the rest of this possible.


jdsizzle1

I'd say the introduction of "pages" combined with the like. I remember in 2010 everyone was liking random pages for a while because it was fun/funny. Things ranging from ideas (Sarah liked "Peace") to actual things (Sarah liked "Bananas") which eventually all turned into business pages for sale because they had so many likes and then the real shit show started. That's how all of the sudden you find out you've been following some random right wing media page since 2010 that you don't remember because the "Bananas" page was eventually sold to the "Guns for Toddlers" page which started pumping your feed with images, then videos, then fake news, and here we are.


jordanjay29

This guy gets how insidious Facebook's monetization (and propaganda-enabling) scheme has been. In the early days, there was just a box that you could list your "likes" in. You typed, and then it added each item as a different tag. When multiple people liked the same thing, it started prompting their tags as search results in that input box, so you wound up typing "ba" and bananas would pop up. When you clicked the tag in someone's profile, it would take you to a quick page with a lame description and a list of your friends (and their friends, etc) who liked that thing. It was an innocent way of seeing what people's interests were, and what you had in common with other people you didn't know. Then those turned into actual pages run by someone. Now it wasn't some democracy of shared interests, but a cult. Maybe benevolent, maybe nefarious, but every single one of them turned into a cult following because you wanted to express your interests back when Facebook kept it innocent.


Paper_Champ

No the end of chronology was the death of FB. I don't care about what's popular or cross posted. It's all group sharing memes and shit and nothing social


Missus_Missiles

Remember Poke? Good times.


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thedude1179

Once Facebook is eventually dead I wonder if we're going to have the same problem with other social medias sites. If Facebook never existed would Myspace have ended up the same way and have the same misinformation and engagement problems? In a lot of ways it feels like Facebook is a symptom of a much bigger problem, in that people lack critical thinking skills and will always want to engage with people who are like-minded. How do we prevent people from falling victim to misinformation and engaging with false narratives?


quixotic_cynic

[1] **The problem starts at the top** Disaster struck the world’s biggest social network on October 4th when Facebook and its sister apps were knocked offline for six hours. It was one of the less embarrassing moments of the company’s week. The next day a whistleblower, Frances Haugen, told Congress of all manner of wickedness at the firm, from promoting eating disorders to endangering democracy. Some wondered whether the world would be a better place if the outage were permanent. A share of the opprobrium heaped on Facebook is incoherent. Politicians are angry but so far seem incapable of co-ordinating reform to rein it in. And investors have kept buying the stock, regardless of the bad headlines. Yet the company should take no comfort from this. The blind fury unleashed shows that its reputational problems have got out of hand. Some of this week’s criticism was tendentious. Reports highlighted internal research showing that Instagram, Facebook’s photo-sharing app, makes one in five American teenagers feel worse about themselves. They paid less attention to the finding that Instagram makes twice as many feel better about themselves. Facebook’s critics are right that it should be more open. But the firm has half a point when it says that the hysterical reaction to unsurprising findings will lead companies to conclude that it is safer not to do such research at all. Other complaints are really criticisms of the broader internet. The question of how to regulate viral content for children goes beyond Facebook, as any parent who has left their child with YouTube knows. Likewise, dilemmas over how the firm amplifies attention and how to draw the line between upholding free speech and minimising harm. Facebook repeated its plea that Congress should weigh in on matters such as minimum ages, rather than leaving it to firms. It has made a better stab than most at settling free-speech questions with its “oversight board”, a pompous-sounding but quietly useful body which dispenses rulings on matters from misogyny to misinformation.


quixotic_cynic

[2] The most damaging claim this week gained the least attention. Ms Haugen alleges that Facebook has concealed a decline in its young American users. She revealed internal projections that a drop in teenagers’ engagement could lead to an overall decline in American users of 45% within the next two years. Investors have long faced a lack of open disclosure. Misleading advertisers would undermine the source of nearly all the firm’s sales, and potentially break the law. (The firm denies it.) Does any of this matter? Although Facebook’s share price has lagged behind some tech giants, it has risen by almost 30% in the past 12 months. Politicians threaten to break the company up, but the antitrust case is flawed. The Justice Department’s claim that Facebook is a monopoly rests on defining its market so as to exclude most social networks. The nonsense of this was demonstrated by the outage, when users flocked to apps like Telegram, TikTok and Twitter. The action is more an expression of frustration than a powerful argument about competition law. But fury may matter. Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return. Even when it set out plausible responses to Ms Haugen, people no longer wanted to hear. The firm risks joining the ranks of corporate untouchables like big tobacco. If that idea takes hold, Facebook risks losing its young, liberal staff. Even if its ageing customers stick with the social network, Facebook has bigger ambitions that could be foiled if public opinion continues to curdle. Who wants a metaverse created by Facebook? Perhaps as many people as would like their health care provided by Philip Morris. If rational argument alone is no longer enough to get Facebook out of its hole, the company should look hard at its public face. Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook’s all-powerful founder, made a reasoned statement after this week’s wave of anger. He was ignored or ridiculed and increasingly looks like a liability.


eloc49

Really jive with the big tobacco comparison. Social media on it's own (nicotine) isn't terrible for you, but all the other shit in cigarettes is (news feed algorithm, showing you enraging content for engagement/advertisers). >If rational argument alone is no longer enough to get Facebook out of its hole, the company should look hard at its public face. The rational arguments will never stop until Zucc steps down. He is incapable of thinking any way *except rationally.* It's no mystery why he gets called a robot online. Spoiler alert Mark, **the world is not purely rational.** It's like in his CS courses when they were talking about the difference between discrete (in this example, rational thinking) and continuous (irrational/emotional thinking) values he just heard the part about discrete. If Zucc stepped down after Cambridge Analytica in 2016 we wouldn't be reading headlines like this. His sociopathy and hubris is quite sad, and he has no possible graceful exit.


[deleted]

Most coders mellow out after college and get more social and generally have various specific failures in their career that make them grow as people. Zuck never had this because his first money making scheme ended up being a stupidly profitable venture. He's literally never experienced true consequences because of the fuck you money he has all around him. He's literally a PHP 4.x coder that failed upward.


agentfelix

Yep! Just because he created Facebook and got lucky with one algorithm in it's infancy, does not mean he's capable or hell, even qualified, with running this global monster it has become.


FlameoHotman-_-

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why everyone is freaking out. None of these information is new. Anyone who's been on the internet for sometime can deduce these things. Also, saying "they're nearing a reputational point of no return" is just hilarious to me. If they made it through the Cambridge Analytica scandal, surely they can survive this. And keep in mind that so many parts of the world uses Facebook and its other services - perhaps heavier than in America. In my country, WhatsApp is arguably one of the most important app there is. Lastly, this is the investor in me speaking, all this freaking out is quite amazing. I hope the share price keeps dropping so I can open a position.


an1sotropy

You know you’re reading the Economist (or WSJ) when the “most damaging claim” is about decreasing market share. Not humanistic priorities there. (thanks for sharing this text)


IAmDotorg

The Facebook board and officers have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. That is, as far as Facebook is concerned, the most damaging claim. They can fight government oversight and can propagandize their users, but the board and officers are *personally* liable to shareholder lawsuits.


OneOverX

There isn't really a legal framework or even a constitutional basis to regulate FB for its impact on society. It's entirely new and we have to create something new that can be consistently applied. There IS a legal framework for withholding vital information that would inform investor decision making. A projected decline in US users (the most profitable segment) is a huge long term strategic risk and its something investors and the board should be leaning on leadership to address. Burying that information is a big deal with actual potential legal ramifications, not some dystopian "only money matters!" schtick.


FizzBitch

If you haven't left FB already this recent shit storm isn't gonna change your opinion. EDIT - disabling relies. Its all people saying no they are not leaving facebook for very good (ha) reasons.


achillymoose

Actually, I deleted my account right after the shutdown. Still took too long


shazarakk

Best decision I ever made. Hope you feel similar. That amount of toxic sludge that got yote was freeing. Still amusing to think that my classmates still try to contact me on there. I haven't been online for more than checking meetings in 4 years, and haven't been online at all for more than 2, now.


Stok3dJ

Wait. Yote? Is there now a past tense for yeet now? I'm too old for this shit.


What-a-Crock

Glad I’m not the only one with that question How is it not ‘yeeted’?


KKlear

Yote is for when you're feeling yeetedn't.


Manwith_Abeard

We truly do live in a society


TheCountMC

Not necessarily? They used it as the past participle in a past passive form. So the past tense could still be yeeted, while the past participle is yote. | Tense | Sentence | |---------|--------------| | Present | He yeets the sludge. | | Past | He yeeted the sludge. | | Past participle | The sludge got yote (by him). |


CheesyComestibles

I don't think anyone on Reddit realizes that Facebook is not just used by people to see and talk to other people. It's a major platform used by small businesses and non-profits as a simple and free way to reach A LOT of people with minimal effort. And I do realize that is also a part of the problem. No other platform provides this. I'm not loyal to Facebook, but were it to completely go away, there is going to be a lot of hurt for these places.


weatherbeknown

So does cigarettes, meth, sugar, ~~boobs~~ *porn*, and lottery tickets. But dopamine is a hell of a drug and people are addicted. To quote Dennis Leary: “It doesn't matter how big the warnings on the cigarettes are; you could have a black pack, with a skull and crossbones on the front, called TUMORS, and smokers would be around the block going, "I can't wait to get my hands on these f***ing things! I bet ya get a tumor as soon as you light up!"


halfachainsaw

...boobs?


felinelawspecialist

Yeah, leave boobs out of this. What did they ever do to you?!


Modsblow

Boobs killed his father.


soup_mix

Yeah I lost him on the boobs. I like boobs.


cicada-man

who wants to bet in 5 years we'll see an article just like this yet nothing has changed?


DemWiggleWorms

!remind me 5 years


MindTheEdge

I have been working in social media for over 15 years now. Started off playing around and creating stuff for my own projects, which then morphed into a fun and surprising career as a content creator, community manager, and social strategist. It allowed me to be creative and get paid. I really loved it. In the last 5 years I have worked all the way up to senior roles as a social executive for major brands. But the fun is no longer there. Working in this field now just makes me anxious and stressed. The major platforms are heartless monsters chewing us up and spitting us out. I have seen Facebook's unbridled greed up close in their offices, witnessed the polarization they fuel, seen my children's self-esteem and attention spans worsen. There has been this creeping dread for years building, but I always pushed it aside. But the recent Facebook Files and whistleblower leaks have been the final nail in the coffin. I can no longer keep feeding the alogorithims with stuff I make. It is only supporting platforms who don't fucking care about us. I decided this week I going to quit working in social media entirely. I am 43 years old and my career is built around social media and understanding Facebook. Not entirely sure where I go next, but ethically I can't justify continuing to contribute to the success of these assholes whilst they keep kicking society in the fucking balls.


tilario

somewhat the same but i do more design and development with content creation, strategy and distribution as a secondary service. i won't work on facebook or instagram campaigns. it leaves money on the table but i can't justify spending time, money or energy on FB-owned properties.


MajorKoopa

#delete facebook


mahanmuuttaja

Sign up Myspace


bidoofguy

I checked out Myspace recently just to see what it was like nowadays and it had a “sign in through Facebook” button on it. Seeing that was shocking


PoopnEvryDay

Tom needs new friends.


solblurgh

Hit the gym


omgburritos

and Instagram


thr33pwood

And Whatsapp


GodOfAtheism

What killed MySpace? It wasn't shitty html homepages that autoplayed Cotton Eyed Joe and spun your top 8 around. It was Facebook. You know what'll kill Facebook? A competitor that does it better that people actually move to. That doesn't really exist yet.


shayen7

That's why they buy the competitors


everytimeidavid

American politicians are proof that there is no such thing.


Nasiso

I've read some funny headlines but this shit takes the cake. Facebook is nowhere near a reputational point of no return. It is far too ingrained in society. The only thing that will damage it is laws, regulations, or a better competitor. Until one of those comes along, Facebook is here to stay.


QtPlatypus

>Facebook is nowhere near a reputational point of no return. It is far too ingrained in society. That is what is going to kill it. The younger generation thinks of Facebook as the thing that there parents use. It has lost it's cool.


newbphil

People have been saying this for over 5 years, and in those years Facebook has continued to grow year over year. You're living in a bubble if you think that a portion of young people disliking Facebook is going to be the silver bullet. Besides, a SHITLOAD of young people use FB. Every couple months I'll log in and see what's going on, and I'm shocked at how many of my former classmates still post. Beyond that, FB is much more popular with younger people in other parts of the world; not only are you coming from a bubble based on age/ cohort, but you're coming from a North American bubble.


[deleted]

[удалено]


LeChatParle

Fun fact: TikTok reached a billion users faster than any other social media platform in history. It took only 5 years


stayonthecloud

I quit Facebook in 2013. Every time there’s more news about how morally bankrupt Zuck and his top people are, it gives me more relief I left. It does make it harder to stay in touch with some friends and family. But it was toxic for me. I would find myself thinking about how something I was doing would make a good Facebook post. Instead of just enjoying it. I never feel that way about Reddit and rarely about Twitter. When I do start feeling like that on Twitter I take a break for a few months. Don’t even get me started on Instagram, that place is a generator of misery and self-doubt. Fitting that Facebook owns it. Can’t spend 3 minutes on there without finding a reason to hate myself


Jeffery_G

My elderly father (88) has at least four different FaceBook accounts. For him, it’s the future promised him as a boy listening to Flash Gordon on the radio. He’s never gonna give it up.


shayen7

One for each family obviously, don't tell


Xalgorious-BIG

Funny hearing people in this thread talk like by going to some less monopolistic site, they can escape the dystopian technopoly. You can't functionally escape it and stay on the internet. Shit, you're in it right now using reddit.


Wwwi7891

They said that about Trump for 5 years too, not gonna hold my breath here.


Urytion

FB won't die until there is a reasonable social alternative.