Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report

Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report




To quit I put a piece of paper on my manager’s manager’s desk that said “I quit” and just didn’t show up anymore. Nobody called me to verify.


Manager: "Well, at least one of them left a notice today. I must be doing better!"


Original comment was deleted, but if you're talking about amazon in their scheduling app there's a link at the bottom of every page to just fucking quit lol took me like 60 seconds to quit amazon from my living room


Thanks for sharing. I know whose message about an interview I won’t be responding to


They also have a habit of hiring people specifically to fire to protect their main crew, because apparently they consider employee retention a bad thing and if managers aren't constantly moving employees they're docked for it Bezos is going to single handedly destroy the American workforce at the rate that they are taking over business after business mixed with their shitty employment practices


Shouldn’t one thing or the other eventually give way? Like surely both of these issues aren’t mutually exclusive and one will force the other to correct itself, yeah? I can’t imagine Amazon staying afloat if their business practice totally flops


Probably hoping they do so they can switch to robotics entirely or some shit and bypass the labor pool entirely. Which I also wouldn't mind, warehouse work is brutal, but who's gonna buy shampoo and backpacks on there if everyone is fucking dead


In other news the "I worked for Amazon support group" is getting HUGE.


I said a couple of weeks ago that Amazon must be running short of hireable workers when they announced they were relaxing their weed testing program. *edit*: [link](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/nqg0fc/amazon_backs_marijuana_legalization_drops_weed/h0aicjf/).


It's not just Amazon. I'm in manufacturing management and we quietly quit testing after injuries and pre employment. We know we wouldn't have anyone left... Edit to add : just check out this on the front page today to everyone that didn't take kindly to my comment... https://www.motor1.com/news/513974/gm-considering-dropping-marijuana-testing/ Manufacturing, yeah? I'm in the same area competing for the same work force as GM by the way...


I used to work on political campaigns - literally no one drug tests. Ever. Not one of them. It’s expected for you to be doing something, at the bare minimum drinking like you want to die yesterday. The one time they even joked about it we just laughed at them. There wouldn’t be a campaign.


A GM at a restaurant I worked at a long time ago made noises about doing a drug test and the employees thought it was hilarious. After enough people told the GM he would have about 15% of his workers left and would have problems hiring replacements the GM took the hint.


Wanting to drug test at a restaurant is one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard.


I could understand if they were testing for a minimum cocaine blood level to make sure the ees were coked up enough to work a 16 hour St. Patrick's Day weekend at a bar.


This is the third time this week you've come into work not high on coke, very unprofessional. Now get your ass in the bathroom and rail some lines until you can flawlessly recite this Eminem verse.


A Microsoft vendor I used to work for supplied free 5 hour energy. That seemed a little fucked up.




God that GM must have been high as fuck


Alright staff, tonight we're going to have a drug test before you leave. You'll get bonus points for naming the strains. Bonus round is how many lines can you snort in 30s


I had a manager who used to walk through the kitchen yelling “This is a randomized drug test- Whadayagot and is there enough for everyone?!” If you were brave enough to burn down with him he would say something like “congratulations, you have passed the test”. Good guy, owners loved him.


This comment made my night.


Yeah man as someone who has worked in the marijuana world before it became legal in my state... The best and most consistent customers were always the staff of restaurants.


Next they'll say no tattoos back of house


Sister works at a big franchise restaurant that nobody visits for wings. Iirc she spends over an hour prior to every shift putting on concealer. Or whatever type of makeup would conceal tattoos.


If it’s Buffalo Wild Wings, tell her I’ve been waiting five years out here! Is my chicken ready yet??


It's Hooters but thanks for playing Guess That Establishment!


I once took a job (been a chef for 10 years) that had hidden in their contract that they reserve the right to perform a random drug test on you. So I didn't do anything for about 2 months before the job started. When I got there I quietly felt out what the deal was, and it was purely to keep insurance lower, they'd never actually done it. The GM later got fired for using the place to sell drugs


A company that I used to work for, my friend still does, told me how the boss threatened to even have remote drug testing vans randomly show up at the job site & test them. After that meeting every single employee walked in & said, just so you know, I smoke cannabis every single night when I get home. Except one. He quit right then & there. No one ever got tested.


So the one that didn’t do drugs quit?


No he smoked cannabis like the rest of them, just freaked himself out for no reason


One of the companies I founded has a litany of paperwork that “warns” of preemptive and spontaneous drug testing. Once they get past the hiring paperwork and get to know me, they know I, MYSELF, would never pass. It’s just a formality I have to maintain on paper for insurance purposes.


Me too. We’ve not done a random drug test in the ten years I’ve been there. Only person that has lost their job to pot was a guy who left it laying in his driver seat and parked beside HR manager.


That is not even getting fired for pot. That is just fired for general stupidity.


Yeah that's the fact of... Life that we've only been trying to legislate out of existence the past 100 or so years. People do drugs. Always have. Always will.


But the cops busted this one big supplier last week. Lots of people went down. Lots of property posessed. Cars, houses, motorbikes. Luxury apartments. Millions in cash. Surely no one would step up to fill the millions that can be made filling the supply void. (It's a joke. There are thousands of million + dollar operations in LA alone. Around the world it's trillions. One guy gets busted and the media and politicians all sing and dance about it. One ring - of thousands. The same politicians and media executives will be at the same party on the weekend snorting lines off a $30,000 marble coffee table laughing at how pathetic it is. It's on a scale of busting one 7/11 for selling single ciggies to teenaged kids) "We're winning the war on drugs". Bullshit you are.


War on drugs is not a real crusade. its just a slogan. drugs being illegal improves police employment and keeps for profit prisons full.


My employer didn't used to drug screen. It's a pretty high-skilled labor/trade job. We're having trouble staffing. They started drug testing sometime this year. Seems ass backwards to me.


Ah, yes, pot testing, how to eliminate 75% of your potential hired-on talent right off the bat.


The classic, be a Coke head but not for 48 hours to get hired, smoke a joint and your screwed for a month.


Meanwhile, upper management is doing coke *at least* every weekend.


CEOs do coke and lobby to lock up poor people for doing crack


There's a reason I signed off on the commitment to serve...


"Service equals citizenship. Join the Navy and fight alien bugs on other planets, or stock the shelves at Amazon.com." \-- would you like to know more?


I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill'em all!


Come on you Apes, you wanna live forever?!


Rico's Roughnecks!


Buenos Aires was an inside job.


I'm doing my part!


Do you know of any? Honestly after working at AWS for several years, I would consider myself a massive ideological enemy of the company. I literally had just a brutal and abusive experience that drained everything I had inside of me for years, and I hated it. I cancelled Amazon Prime, I rarely use the site, I contact politicians and lend my voice in public conversations to convince people to break this company up into many different pieces. I would be completely unsurprised if their machine is brewing their own public sentiment against them, that eventually tips the scale for politicians to take action. It's no surprise that average tenure at the company is 13 months, or that their pay schedule is skewed so that you only really get your promised total compensation (and Amazon shares) in years 3 and 4 of your tenure. And if you’re one of the many employees who gets abused to the point you have to take medical leave, they delay your pay schedule in perpetuity by the length of time you’re on medical leave. Most people never make it past 13 months, and by then you've only gotten 5% of the shares they promised you as your total compensation over 4 years. edit: thanks for all the support, folks. be well and don't forget to fight the elite class.


I'm just at just about year 10 of working for AWS and am in the process of being forced out of the company. I'll say that I've had positions in AWS that were almost literally dream jobs for me; challenging work in exciting areas but the workload wasn't soul-crushing. I made a career move at the beginning of the pandemic to change roles, and for awhile it looked extremely promising. They gave me a very talented external hire to train on my expertise in anticipation of this years' workload, and my manager was one of the best I've worked for, in any company. He spent 3 months working on a document justifying a pretty substantial promotion for me to reflect the amount of responsibility I had, which is...a lot. My manager then unfortunately quit at the tail end of last year. The new manager immediately did two things: reassign the Program Manager I'd just spent 8 months training on my specific work to an entirely different area, and kill my promotion. Right before the workload literally quadrupled. So, I now get to receive weekly condescending emails from the least technical person I've ever encountered at Amazon about how I'm not performing at the level they expect me to, despite me reaching out to HR back in December to say I literally cannot handle the workload they're giving me in 60 hour work weeks, let alone 40. To say that I'm looking for new work is an understatement. I'm not philosophically opposed to the company, but the amount of tools that they give shitty managers to create incredibly toxic work environments is almost staggering.


I was forced out of Amazon after I took a few days off to attend my fathers funeral.


I worked for them for a period of a year. Each time was a 3 month contract period. I worked as a picker in outbound, my 3 months came up and they fired me. Called me legit same day and asked if I wanted another position. Went in later that week, did training again for a day and went back to the exact same shift as before. This happened about 4 times 😒 They did this to avoid giving me benefits…


holy shit that's greasy




I worked as a contractor for Amazon for 2 weeks. I gave my 2 week notice on my first day because the bus route there was for shit but I didn't want to walk off work. Our morning shift was so efficient that they fired everyone on that shift the next week and want to rehire them for days. Most said fuck that and filed for unemployment and I ended up walking off the job anyways because I almost hurt my back in that unsafe warehouse. Fuck Amazon. Their bonuses are bs. Never the fuck again!


This is not new or exclusive to Amazon. Literally every major retailer does this. Lowe's, Walmart, Michaels, you name it. Benefits are for full time workers. Full time workers are classified as x number of hours for y number of weeks. Let's say x is 24 and y is 13. On weeks 1-12 you worked 40 hours a week. On week 13 you work one shift. On weeks 1-12 you thought you were being noticed and rewarded for your hard work. You were being used and abused and you got the big shaft on week 13 so they don't have to make you full time.


Tons of retail companies will schedule workers hours below their benefits threshold for the same reason.


True, back in the mid 90s I had to work 2 jobs to barely get by. Each scheduled 38 hours a week. Didn't qualify for benefits, didn't qualify for aid.


And when they lowered it to 30 for healthcare companies like Regal sent memos they were cutting hours to keep people from getting healthcare an impacting their bottom line https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/04/19/nations-largest-theater-chain-cuts-employee-hours-to-shirk-obamacare-responsibility/?sh=42ab37b7959e


And that's why we are fucked yo, labor laws need to be hugely tightened up!!!!


It's shocking that that's legal behavior.


Why's it shocking? What's shocking is that with the amount of fiscal push they exert with state and federal lawmakers, they're not just allowed to roam the streets with cudgels press-ganging random passers by into warehouse fulfillment work.


Packers of Penzance


Welcome to America, where corporations write our laws.


Does the 13 months apply for corporate employees only, warehouse employees only, or is it a combined stat?


It is a combined stat. EDIT: At least for Median, ~13 months sounds right. I don't know about actual average.


I had only two days in a warehouse and I'm right there with you on not using the site and speaking out against the company. They treat you like animals.


Shit, I used to want to work for AWS last year. I thought the coding side of Amazon was better, I suppose it’s all rotten to the Bezo’s core.


Yeah they treat their developers like shit. Avoid at all costs.


Amazon goes through so many employees in their warehouses that they literally preemptively hire people and basically put them on hold, well before they even need anyone extra.. In anticipation of people quitting so they can immediately fill in the spots when they do. Just to give you an idea of how they recruit. And I’m talking year-round also, not just seasonally during Christmas for example. I worked at an Amazon fulfillment center (their big warehouses) for 5 months.. Literally a full month went by from the time my background check passed and they sent me my employment offer email to the time I was actually given the date for my first shift. That’s right, I didn’t actually even get a shift or know I was going to be working until a month after I had my badge photo taken and received my employment offer. I had no idea what was going on, there was zero communication in between. I was in complete limbo.


At that point, isn't it cheaper to treat their employees better?


Can't get yearly raises if nobody can make it a year


Yeah I worked for them briefly and this seems to be a selling point. They have a stock option that completes at the 2 year mark. The catch is simple, you won't get it because they'll wear you out within 2 years.


A few years ago I saw data that the average tenure of an Amazon employee was 18 months. That's company wide, not just wearhouse.


Some of my current coworkers are former Amazonians (corporate) and the rumors are true - it’s common to find people crying at their desks and it’s extremely difficult to stay long enough for the stock to vest. They’re also constantly hiring because they’re forced to let go of the bottom 10% so they’re always pipelining for more people to fill the bench. Ugh.


So why do they drop the bottom 10%? It seems pretty fucking stupid as a business practice


I think Microsoft used to do that but then they realized in encouraged a toxic and non collaborative work environment. It could be a good idea in theory for a year or two, but then after that you have to stop once you've purged this bottom 10%. And then by then you've also wrecked your company culture.


I work for Amazon in Europe, but as a software engineer. They do the same thing with stock options for us, except it's 4 years. I just know that there is an actuary somewhere doing the math on how to make sure the minimum percentage of people ever see those awards. I made 4 years in March, quit at the end of March, last day this Friday.


and won't have to pay your full time employees benefits if you boot them before any kick in. don't need to pay them that $1000 hiring bonus either if you make it conditional that it pays out over 2 years


It literally is, but amazon is not an efficient company. It's a brutal company and this is held up by their internal culture. The '[leadership principles](https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles)' that every employee memorizes as part of their culture is self contradictory and encourages infighting and bullheadedness. There is too much pressure from all sides to actually innovate and come up with efficient processes. Amazon's really good at trimming the fat and getting rid of superfluous crap that slows people down, but when they encounter a problem they just grind people into it until it drowns in blood rather than thinking about it. The whole company is basically built as a rebellion to old ways of doing business but it's the perfect example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I worked in the data center, and I watched 3 different people get hired and then fired because they weren't performing, when no one had the time to train them and they weren't allowed to train themselves. Only thing they could do was sit there and stare at a wall all day. The first one that complained about this got fired, the other two were eventually let go. The guy literally said 'You're paying me 10 hours a day to just sit on my ass, I want to **work**' and he got fired for causing trouble. I was relatively new so I just left after that shit.


> The guy literally said 'You're paying me 10 hours a day to just sit on my ass, I want to work' and he got fired for causing trouble. Whoa, what a hilarious summary of a deeply broken company. Perfectly represents modern American society too, where things are broken all the way down from the top, but no single person can fix it without risking their own job by calling attention to themselves. So we all just go on pretending like everything is just fine... or being fired if we complain.


> "I watched 3 different people get hired and then fired because they weren't performing, when no one had the time to train them and they weren't allowed to train themselves. Only thing they could do was sit there and stare at a wall all day. The first one that complained about this got fired, the other two were eventually let go. The guy literally said 'You're paying me 10 hours a day to just sit on my ass, I want to work' and he got fired for causing trouble. I was relatively new so I just left after that shit." OMG this was like a lightbulb went off and showed me why I find so much of my working life to be so unfulfilling. I have a bone-deep instinct for understanding when raising your profile will get you fired, but laying low also leads to such a tedious and unfulfilling work experience. I *want* to do diligent and meaningful work, but nobody wants to develop talent, and the people that poke their heads out of the foxholes get shot.


One of the better student jobs I had was "sit in a warehouse and accept deliveries". Sometimes as many as 10 deliveries a week, but they never knew when so they had to hire someone to be there 7am-5pm five days a week. Me! I did university work, I did contract programming work, I read books, I got so bored I spent time optimising the layout of the warehouse. If I hadn't been able to fill my days doing whatever I liked I'd have lost my mind.


I used to manage a team that had a few roles like this. It’s paying someone to be available to do the task when it comes up. The employees were free to do anything in the meantime as long as they dropped it immediately when work came up. The customers paid a premium for the fast response and having someone available to jump into the task immediately was what their money actually paid for.


God and people complain about government being mindless bureaucracy lmao


They also have a *required* turnover rate. https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-managers-performance-reviews-hire-to-fire-internal-turnover-goal-2021-5 It's literally insane.


Microsoft had something like that. They would fire the bottom x% of performing staff each year. Seems logical, don't want bad people. Problem is if you do this every year, people quickly learn there's no benefit to helping someone else. You gotta make them look worse to make you look better. Tada, inefficient, demotivating, backstabbing company culture.


This is the concept of stacked ranking. Enron did it too. It is -the best way- to completely fuck over your own company for some imaginary idea of efficiency because people will focus on not getting fired instead of doing a great job as a team. Also, some teams are so good that it doesn’t make sense to fire the 10% worst performers because they’re all so close together. Then it doesn’t make sense to fire the 10% ‘worst’ because they’re really not bad at all. It’s hugely unfair. Microsoft, under Ballmer, suffered a lot of losses of talented people because of this stupid way of working. And it doesn’t even work precisely because managers then come up with their own solution: hire to fire. You didn’t achieve the principal idea of what you wanted to achieve. You just made sure your managers found a disingenuous solution to a problem that has to be handled in a different way. Hire to fire is not leadership, it’s HR managing.


The culling of shit talent only works for 2-3 cycles. After that you’ve got no fat left to trim. Now you’re cutting off muscles and telling the remaining muscles to just work harder. That might work for a bit, until the tensing muscles can find employment elsewhere. But it’s a path to your own demise 100% of the time.


It’s called [Stack Ranking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve) (among other names). It can be quite effective at weeding out underperforming employees, but it was only ever meant to be used for a year or two, not long term like MS did under Ballmer. It was even worse than you suggest, because it also caused the high skill employees to refuse to work on a term with other high skill employees, because of how much more difficult it would be to get good performance reviews. Vanity Fair did an [excellent deep dive](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2012/08/microsoft-lost-mojo-steve-ballmer) on it back in 2012, highly recommend.


Yes, stack ranking. Where middle managers make shit up, fire the competition, and keep the barely capable.


I always think of this Dilbert comic when I hear about firing the bottom 10%: https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-04-09


The marketing-speak of the names too... "You need to improve, so now you're part of the Focus [on your task] program. You didn't improve, now you're on the Pivot [to another company] program..."


Shit, they do this in other job positions too. I went through the interview process for an Operations IT job. At the end of it they said “you’re hired… when there is an opening.” I’m like, the fuck? It wasn’t already open??


The traditional way to deal with a labor shortage is to improve pay, benefits and/or working conditions...


Good point, they definitely need a bailout


Hah. This made me lol


Make's me weep as they'd probably get one. [My Senator Maria Cantwell proposed giving Bezos' a $10B handout because his ~~personal space agency~~ firm Blue Origin lost a NASA contract](https://theintercept.com/2021/05/25/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-senate-bailout/).


You should write her asking for a bailout bc you didn’t get a job contract Edit: changed stupid to should, sorry


Easiest 10B I ever got


If she said no, you could offer to settle for *one-tenth-of-one-percent* of that and still be set for life with some prudent investing.


Not even prudent investing. $10mm is enough to just blow $100k/yr for 100 years if you just stuff the ash under your mattress.


Not to mention if you put it in municipal bonds, you could live off the tax-free interest. Or you could invest all that money in risk-averse assets, like bonds, blue chips, or metals, and use your portfolio as collateral for low interest loans. That way, you can avoid capital gains tax while still having access to the worth of your portfolio. In the case where your assets supply dividends or yields, you can use the annual return to cover the interest rate of the loan. In fact, if I were a billionaire like Bill Gates, who holds a significant amount of Microsoft shares, I could use those as collateral to access gains without paying taxes or liquidating my assets.


Bruh at 10 mil you could literally throw half of it into just about any Dividend aristocrat on the S&P500 and make well above the average household income by not doing anything.


"you're too poor for free money"


"that's just called being a smart businessman.." "...wait. you're poor? LEECH!!! SOCIALISM!"


"You want us to help you with all these billions we couldn't even hope to spend in our lifetimes? No, no, you don't get it, we're the only ones allowed to have free stuff."


No, just make Bezos turn in the schematics for the rocket he wants support for, the have him plot that same data into a form on our web page. And then he has to take a personality test and write an essay about his passion for rockets - more than 200 words, but not more than 250, and then we'll see.


But what if we give them shame stalls to cry in?


Their pay's actually not terrible; it sounds like it's the working conditions that are burning their employees out. Chill out a bit and let them take potty breaks, realize that humans can't work completely *optimally* 8+ hours a day, and you'll find your workers stick around.


I've worked at Amazon. It's totally the working conditions. They work you like a fucking mule. They try to be nice about it for sure, but it's just that hard to hide.


Yup, solution is to hire more people, rotate people between tasks way more often, create mandatory break cycles, make it easier to go to the bathroom (bathroom on every floor), allow people to take their time in the bathroom, allow more camaraderie between employees, and you know, actually let people stay at amazon. There was just an article the other day saying that turnover is intentional as they don't want any senior employees arguing for better working conditions. They try not to let employees stay past 3 years. Also, they have less of an excuse to give pay raises or to promote if they have no long-term employees. They want cogs, not people.


> They try not to let employees stay past 3 years. Also, they have less of an excuse to give pay raises or to promote if they have no long-term employees. They want cogs, not people. That rings true from what I've seen at other companies with these types of workforces. Infact the only folks they want to keep are fellow sycophants to the cause/leadership.


Yep. That’s how my previous company was. No one besides people with a VP or Executive title in their position was happy. I still have friends who are there trying to find new jobs and they say it feels like the company is imploding on itself. It’s very much a corporate culture of the have’s and the have not’s and the have’s remind the have not’s which group they belong in at every turn.


Reminds me of my insurance job, and any other jobs that identify you as a "cost center". They very specifically like to use that terminology as if it's a negative thing. Despite the fact that I was one of only two employees he had and their office can't function very long with only one, I'd say "cost" isn't quite the right word choice. More like "non-negotiable service requirement".


If only there was a way for Amazon employees to collectively express their concerns in a fashion that the company could capitalize on in order to be a more competitive employer.


Un... Un ... Unemployment?


Maybe they could unite in some way?


150% annual turnover means that if they are trying to have employees cycle out at no more than ~3 years, they're doing an amazing job of being about 4x better at getting people to quit!


Well they are going to run out of cogs before they get automation.


Just quit my job at an Amazon facility. Their sorting targets are extremely unreasonable and they treat their workers horribly. I saw on a whiteboard that their target for stowing packages in preparation for loading into vans was 450 packages per hour. Their current baseline was 385 packages per hour. How is that even humanly possible when you have to sort and move packages that sometimes weigh up to 50 lbs? They hire the worst managers too. They all have their heads up their asses in how they think they’re meeting productivity targets while not giving a damn about worker wellbeing. They only pay lip service to safety and they really only care about performance metrics.


What I noticed too is there is a lack of teamwork between all the different mangers because they all want to climb over one another in hopes of being promoted.


>I saw on a whiteboard that their target for stowing packages in preparation for loading into vans was 450 packages per hour. One package every 8 seconds continuously. If you are moving more than a yard per action that would be pretty difficult.


Yeah that's assembly line numbers.


The older I get, the more I feel like that's all managerial jobs. Pretend like they have their heads up their ass, drink the Kool aid, and run interference between you and the higher ups. They can't actually fix anything, even if they wanted to.


If you live near any airline related facilities, look into those and even better if they're union. 50 lbs? The good places don't let you lift more than 30-35 without help or you're given a dolly or forklift to use. Now these aren't common but they're out there. They have targets but they'd prefer that you take more time to get the six digit value package out the door safely vs dropping it.


six digit value package lol. should have lead with that. changes the business model just a bit.


Yeah I work for AMA and this is my issue. The work is physically hard but it’s truly the pace and unforgiving nature of the quota. The work NEVER ends, so there’s not even the satisfaction of being done for the day. In a given day I will generally walk 25k steps while doing non-con processing (as in, processing the packages that are too heavy(50lbs+)/large to go on the conveyer belt) I do this three days in a row. My legs are jacked but I only haven’t quit this job because I’m one of like 5 experienced people who haven’t quit yet so managers leave me alone. This isn’t the case for the other 300 people in the building, and they used to abuse my work ethic and ask far too much which has caused me many mental breakdowns.


> so managers leave me alone If I had to say what amazon did wrong the most- It was during their growth stage. They readily promoted a lot of people who had no business being managers in to management roles. I'm not talking about the VPs but Manager to low director levels. There is a grossly thick layer of abusive management at the low end that will kiss untold amounts of ass to senior management to hide problems.


Lol all promotions at my building are because someone was friends with someone else. Ive tried to get into a simple safety position many times but was told, “youre one of our best scanners, we need you on the floor.” Maybe that’s the excuse and I’m actually not suited for the role, but I’ve seen much worse people at leadership and in general being given the role over me. My roommate is literally the ONLY person in the building who is trained for hazard waste processing right now and he wants a promotion, but Amazon is refusing to train anyone else for the role so he never will get it. It’s demoralizing. I no longer work towards getting a promotion because of it. I’m just in school til I get my degree in a year.


I would say join TOM. Our rate is 4 moves an hour. I have so much down time it’s ridiculous. I almost quit in December due to my shitty no social skills AM and because of stowing. Glad I stayed on because it’s almost criminal working on TOM. When I’m at the check in gate I browse the internet, watch YouTube videos, scroll Reddit, etc. I do the same when there’s a slow time if I’m driving.




This. The way Amazon runs the warehouses is counterproductive. They're burning people out so fast that they don't have time to learn the job and get the experience they'd need to get close to that optimal level of productivity. I really believe that warehouse productivity would increase if they relaxed enough to let workers hydrate, take bathroom breaks, and not be scared that stopping to catch their breath would get them fired. The lower turnover would lead to higher net productivity over time.


Call centres are similar. They waste a month worth of money on training and treat workers like crap so that 90% of the staff is always new. So they will give someone a months salary in training for on average 4-5 weeks of work instead of just paying people more and giving more breaks and such.


I worked for a call center for a huge retirement company in America that required call center employees to have their Series 6. So they paid you for 3 weeks of classes so you could pass the test, then about a month of training, and then you went live and they treated you like garbage. Not only were they paying you for 7-8 weeks of no actual work, when you were done you had your series 6 and could go get a much better job. Place was a Series 6 factory and they used turnover as an excuse to have not enough money in the budget for raises.


i've worked in a few call centers, and it wasn't so much the pay or the lack of breaks that was the problem but the absolute mindlessness of the metrics. there were accounts where before i could even find out what a caller wanted i had to verify their name, address, phone number, member ID, confirm their eligibility, read them a series of disclaimers dictated by their employer, review their benefits and triage them for crisis counseling. and 98% of the time i'd go through all that and 5 minutes later finally get to "is dr. so-and-so in network?" "no." no small share of verbal abuse was hurled my way because i was literally required to waste their time like that, and if they managed to tell me what they wanted before i got through it all, i still had to go through it to give them an answer otherwise i got penalized. in every performance review i told them how people HATED that process and every time i was ignored and punished for not pissing people off.


As someone who's worked in several call centers over the years, I've worked around people who only attend training classes. As in, they get hired on, get paid to attend 3-6 weeks of training, then quit before actually hitting the floor to "work" at a different call center. I feel like at least some of these folks would reconsider if floor work wasn't so unnecessarily grueling.


Instructions unclear, creating additional zen booths.


Nobody uses them, the time spent stationary kills your metrics.


AmaZen. Or as we on the internet like to call them :Futurama Suicide Booths


It a Porta potty for breaks after bathroom breaks were breaks already.


Scream boxes.


Abuse labor migration from poorer countries. Seems to work for agriculture related things


Instructions unclear, lobbied politicians to import hopeful foreign laborers who are eventually tricked into becoming modern-day wage slaves


Ha, ha, you're joking. After serfdom and slavery stopped working, the traditional way to deal with a labor shortage was to destroy workers' rights and automate production.


Automation was going to happen regardless. That’s why those “Main Street” jobs aren’t coming back.


It's a small irony that the labor shortage caused by the black death was what brought an end to serfdom/slavery.


On the bright side, they said 'people' instead of 'human capital'.


Huh. I thought they were going with "meat robots" these days.


Negative. They are meat popsicles.


Leelu Dallas Multipass


UPS categorizes people as "industrial athletes". They try to be a little less obvious about how they feel about their exploited workers.


Hooo boy that’s some shit marketing


It USED to be a decent company, then about fifteen years ago they went public. Now they're just another corporation trying to appease to the gluttonous stockholders ever growing demand for more fiscal growth.


I feel like we need to have a societal reckoning with the stock market. The insatiable need for growth is not sustainable. And if it is sustainable, it comes at the expense of customers, workers, quality, and the environment. There is no reason that Apple should feel like it needs to grow sales when it takes in billions’ worth of profit year after year.


It's called a bunch of wealthy people getting smoked by an angry mob, it's happened a few times in history.


This must be why they started the new cloning division. They're running out of people so fast they need to make more!


There are warehouses, Neo, endless warehouses where Amazon workers are no longer born...we are grown.


Me and my brother there? Yeah, no scar. We were bred here, 100% organic born here.


Restaurant industry enters then slowly backs away...


From an employee perspective, it’s kind of amazing they are still getting applicants. But from a leadership perspective, how does this make any sense? Don’t the costs associated with the turnover come out to something that would make it more financially sound to treat the employees better? There are some business fundamentals here that just don’t apply? I think this is really something that strikes me. With these mega billionaires and their abusive monopolies of scale dependent on exploitation on such massive scale, the old understandings of not only capitalism but business in general are at some risk. And yet, it’s not just people believing they could be mega billionaires but smaller businesses thinking they could somehow become….this. And that’s driving our leadership. The race to exploit. This is nuts.


> From an employee perspective, it’s kind of amazing they are still getting applicants. I mean it's basically an instantaneous hiring process, no educational/work experience needed, there's always going to be someone in a rough spot looking for work.


I applied because the benefits are excellent. The work itself wasn't for me, though. Too physical (back pain) and really boring.


The boring is what did it for me. 10 hours a day alone with my thoughts. No thanks.


Did a job stacking crates in a brewery when I was 17. All day just me, the conveyor belt, the crates and the pallets to stack them on. Once in a while a fork lift would replace full pallets with empty ones but that guy refused to talk to me. Tell you what I paid attention at school and started thinking seriously about career choices after that experience.


> there's always going to be someone in a rough spot looking for work. And now you know why the economy always sucks.


For warehouse staff - Amazon uses technology to tremendously reduce the costs of turnover. Technology tells staff exactly what to do, so there's not much training required and new staff get up to speed very quickly. I'm sure most of the interviewing and hiring processes are pretty highly automated too.


yeah my trainer at amazon largely didn't coach me as the screen was just telling me all the steps in my process path. She did give me some tips but a lot of it was the ol "we aren't supposed to do it this way but we do" to shave seconds of pack time which add up over the course of a standard 10 hour shift to 12 hour shift in prime weeks or holiday shopping season.


Stuff like "Package and ship anything that isn't leaking fluids, no matter how obviously damaged it is so that you can meet your fucking hourly quota."?


More like skip steps slam doesn't track. Slam being the machine that applys shipping labels not just the SP0 label that is the internal tracking label applied at packer stations by people like me. Notable steps skipped are throwing away package slips from anything shipped in own container unless it's a gift message. People also use way to little dunnage from not enough to ZERO. But recently dunnage senors were removed and not replaced so we sent packages with no support at all. The reasoning, well my FC had them on "backorder". As a packer who doesn't want peoples items to arrive damaged notably their mondter energy drinksyeah that bugged me but I couldn't override the machine to spool out dunnage when needed.




In my area they pay 18+ starting which is way more than any job starting off


Yeah something tells that the boss going on space vacation and building $500 million yachts doesnt sit well with the workers that are using government assistance.


>Hourly employees had a turnover rate of about 150% every year How much could Amazon save by paying its employees better and reducing turnover?


FYI dollar general runs the same way, I worked at the distribution center in Fulton MO, they had something like 20k employees turn over in less than a decade. I was working next to a guy that’s wife went into labor while he was at work, and they said they would fire him if he left during his shift.... another night a guy got hit in the head by a can from an overhead conveyor about 35ft up, he was knocked unconscious, they didn’t call medical, and when he came to, they asked if he was alright and wanted him to go back to work and finish his shift. I call that place the dollar Führer


Tbh Amazon's pay isn't bad, its the working conditions that are abysmal. Really they just need to hire more people to split the work between more so that employees have time to rest.


They don't give a flying fuck about workers... They plan to automate everything within a decade and they could literally go through a new batch of employees every week between now and then without a single vacancy failing to be filled before the last person even left the building. You aren't a person to them. You're a temporary machine that's intended to break quickly so they don't have to follow through on their promises of stock options and other incentives. Everything they do is by design and it's pure evil at this point.


It's the same way they handle data storage: Redundant Array of Inexpensive People


Uhh..RAIP? Actually has kind of an appropriate sound. In an inappropriate way. But appropriate.


Appropriately inappropriate


Humm. How about treating people with more respect. Design systems around ergonomics and automate more. I would be a Bezos fan if he actually gave a shit about the future for all people.


You son of a bitch, are you suggesting Bezos not rampantly exploit people? How is he going to relax on his $500,000,000 yacht with his harem of cocaine fueled whores if he has to worry about treating other people decently? Do you *want* him to outsource good American jobs to other countries? Other companies don't even give you bottles to piss in while you work your minimum wage job!


Not everyone loves cocaine and whores. Some people really just get off on controlling and manipulating others.


I interviewed for Amazon out of college for an "operations manager program" or something like that. Basically 3 years to go from running a team of 15-20 employees to running an entire shift at a distribution center. The interviewer straight up asked questions like "your direct report is 5 min late to her shift. She tells you that every day she carpools with another employee and he was late which is why she was late. She has never been late before and she tells you that the person she car pools with wasn't written up. What should you do?" I asked what the policy was and they said the policy was to write up my direct report and the other manager for not writing up their employee. They literally started the interview by saying "you probably have seen that Forbes article about how hard it is to work at Amazon. It's 100% true it's completely normal to find people crying especially during busy season. This job is soul crushing but if you can say you worked at Amazon for 3 years you can literally go anywhere". The best was when they sent me an offer. You were at will employment and at any time they could change your shift and your distribution center. Meaning they could decide that next week you were moving to night shift halfway across the country and you just had to accept. They offered a 15k signing bonus with the caveat that if you left or were fired before your 1st year the bonus was actually a high interest loan that would be prorated to your first day (so if you were fired on month 11 you'd have to pay 11 months of interest and your entire signing bonus). They also offered 45k in stock bonuses vested after 3 years. The pay wasn't bad but the culture and predatory nature of the business was ridiculous. Jeff Bezos is truly one of the worst living humans right now.


> They offered a 15k signing bonus with the caveat that if you left or were fired before your 1st year the bonus was actually a high interest loan that would be prorated to your first day (so if you were fired on month 11 you'd have to pay 11 months of interest and your entire signing bonus). This should be illegal. If they force the employee to pay it back it should be without interest.


I know they are desperate for employees... I applied for a position as software developer about three months ago. I was rather quickly and rudely dismissed. I have since received an email at least once a week from different recruiter basically begging me to apply for the position again. Not dealing with that kind of toxic environment.


just keep accepting and cancelling at last minute brother. go in peace


I told a recruiter today I’m not interested after a first round interview. They sent me a fucking *study guide* for the next round of interviews and I read it and said lmfao nope. Im a perfectly competent developer in my field but I’m not gonna jump through hoops and dance for them to get a job that pays barely over average. I know my worth and they ain’t worth it. I’m not jerking myself off to the idea of working for a FAANG like the overly ambitious weirdos at r/cscareerquestions that haven’t been crushed by the real world yet. I want a mediocre, relaxed job that doesn’t shoot up red flags for me like making me memorize stupid shit for an interview like Amazon does




They've been contacting me for 3 years trying to recruit me. I kept telling them to remove my from their list, but they won't stop. So, I signed up. Went through their initial interview process. For the full day round, the recruiter told me there is a 'cooldown' period of two years where I can't apply to Amazon anymore if I failed. That was my ticket. Agreed to it. The day came, they called, ignored the call. Haven't gotten any emails since.


Cut to two years from now!


every one I know that works at amazon usually burns out after a year even with the stock and stuff. doesnt help their review process is stacked ranking so you screw over good folks.


are they seriously doing stacked ranking? damn, you'd think a company based in seattle would have enough former msft employees up high to know what an awful idea that is


Yeah thats what hey have told me. They just had a article a month back about teams hiring folks just to fire them a year later so their folks dont get cut and they let go the newer person. Its really fucked over there it seems like.


This happened at a warehouse in my town called NRI. They model their business practices after Amazon to the point where if you wrote some of the stuff they do into a movie it would be too over the top. One example is they were piling up boxes everywhere (empty and full) and didn't have enough room on the shelves to the point where the pickers' walking paths were obstructed in a lot of places... and the owner was parking his giant fucking boat in the warehouse. Same owner when faced with angry workers who had been on overtime and weekend hours for over a month straight actually said to the entire floor that he gets it, everyone is suffering, he has only been out on the boat twice this summer. Anyway they have burned through so many people in the town at this point that would consider working there, and tons of people only hear about the nightmare of working there by word of mouth. A good portion of the applicants are now drug addicts that don't show up to work. And get this, they had to increase wages to attract applicants so their actual loyal workers now are getting paid less than the drug addicts that they're trying to train on day 1.


Wondering for a friend, what kind of drug addicts?


I just left amazon a few weeks ago after being there for 4 years. The reason why (at my facility) people left is that there wasn't really any training and what little there was conflicted with what management wanted us to do. For example we are trained to clean as you go, even in the bins that store product. Basically just make everything nice, neat and presentable so that when an item needs to be picked for a customer the picker can find it easily. The stow rate was much higher than the pick rate and we brought in more than we shipped out every day. That means the building was full constantly and management kept telling us to stuff the building further and faster, which created many safety problems that got ignored. For people like me that had been there for years it was easy to hit our rates and clean up at the same time but with so few of us it was pointless. Basically at the end of the day the building was just unsafe and the rates too high for most people to ever achieve. From what I know of other types of facilities (mainly ones with robots) the job is boring and requires you to just stay in one spot. Those are the facilities that I assume people get in trouble for going to the bathroom at.


And this is why there are unions.


I’ve worked in staffing for a while now, and I can confirm that Amazon is definitely running through employees at an astonishing rate. Seems like everyone had it on their resume, it was short, and they weren’t ever interested in going back.