By - im3ns3
If you picked Soraka and the enemy lane picked a poke CC lane take coin and Guardian key stone .. you wont be able to poke a xerath in lane
tbh Naut is a decent choice into these kind of lanes, as long as you can manage your hp and prep for good engages.
Blitz might be a lil better, due to overcoming more range and getting them closer.
Both Xerath and Varus are immobile and engage / pick punishes that, but at the same time Xerath can use his Poke early to get you low enough to the poing where you will have a hard time engaging. Poke mages also won't be as active on following your roams, so if you can find timings around recalls, minion waves, etc. you can get advantage elsewhere. As long as you don't leave your AD in a bad spot or leave for too long.
Also Blitz's grab range got buffed so low elow will not really expect it.
This. A little bit of MR early goes a long ways, so after t2 support item grab the basic MR component (before boots). Also sitting on a Cowl while building into an armor item (Knight's Vow or Rigteous Glory) is fine.
Also, taking the MR stat shard in your runes instead of Armor if vs Naut vs Xerath. You're going to take a lot more magic damage poke in lane, and being a tank you'll be building at least some armor for their physical damage threats later on.
The worst thing that can happen to a Xerath/Varus is there bring a giant mass of CC standing on top of them while getting hit by their ADC.
Hit and run tactics also work fine. Q in, get the basic attack in for your passive, then up your shield and walk out. If your ADC focuses and pokes with you, you'll come out ahead on the trade more often than not.
Biggest thing is spacing. Understanding when you’re able to walk up vs when you should stay back, stuff like that. Unfortunately it’s hard to explicitly learn this since it really comes from just experience. Once you play against those champs a bunch and learn their ability ranges and CD’s, it’s easier to just get a feel for how to play out the lane.
Learn to play around enemy cooldowns, *especially* any and all CC. Going with your example of Varus/Xerath -- is Xerath stun down? Look to posture for a hook. Are either of their Q's down? There goes a large chunk of their damage, and you can retaliate.
Another important thing too is what AD carry you're laning with. There's a massive difference between laning with a Kai'sa versus being paired with, say, an Ezreal. A PtA Kai'sa + Nautilus' full kit will 100-0 a target in seconds if they don't Flash right away. In the meantime, an Ezreal would prefer to have at least Sheen and/or Tear before all the fighting starts up.
And if you're still having difficulties, it's okay to try something else! Nami would be a great pick into that sort of duo, as her laning phase prowess is more or less unparalleled. W max Nami + Revitalize from the Resolve tree will pretty much always negate and nullify heavy poke lanes like the ones you're describing, not to mention how easily she can fit something like Mikael's Crucible into her build.
Raka isnt good versus xerath; for sustain you need a nami or sona preferably. As naut, youll need to take advatage of bush control, or face tanking damage and all in bursting. Taking out the adc is preferable here as Xerath doesnt have much solo damage, and long CD's. As for the free damage, you probably need to walk into it and after they burn a spell or two keep pressure and threaten the fight. If you back off early they just keep getting free trades, and can reset and have cd's back up and rinse repeat 'til you are dead.
Perhaps a Braum would work? If adc gets cc'ed jump to them and block shit. You'll have a bit of a hard time getting close though so not sure if it'd work in practice.
I go for hard engage and just wait patiently to have a window(ignore the adc flaming you for doing “nothing”) and then I rush mobi’s to roam and help mid/jg.
The other option I go with is lux or vel koz and just poke back while focusing on dodging poke(note this option is much harder into Xerath over all the other poke mages).
If you are a relic sheild user consider dmats as a secondary to safely confirm cannons.
Also imo expand the champ pool. It’s good to have 1 main and 2-3 secondaries but with how diverse the support pool is it’s good to have practice in most supports so you can counter or pick a safer option for any lane. My main is leona, my secondaries are morgana, lux, Vel koz. And when the match up desires it I can comfortably pull out most other supports.
I would pick Ali against such a lane. You can get a lot of healing with second wind, ali passive and relic procs. Also go for Dematerializer so you don‘t have to take as much poke for cannon minions and when your jungler comes for a gank (he should gank a xerath+Varus lane) you should still have enough health to be able to engage.
I find that Lux and Zyra have enough range to counter the range of a poke lane. But Leona also does well into poke lanes if you can dodge enough skillshots
Agreed about Zyra but not always Lux.
Although I am biased towards Zyra because I main her, I feel that with Zyra you aren't limited by enemy minions and it's easy especially in lower elo I imagine to catch opponents off guard (situations where they don't expect you to hit them)
As opposed to Lux where her Q is pretty easily choreographed and her E while easier to poke with is quite a bit slower than Zyra's Q and doesn't give you those plants to generate a couple extra hits of poke.
While Zyra does have more lane pressure, I feel that Lux better fits op's playstyle. Op said that he/she prefers to play enchanters, like Soraka. Though W max Lux is dead, she can still be played like an enchanter and be viable. Lux's W just provides her with the utility style that he/she more prefers.
I also feel that Lux has a lower skill ceiling than Zyra. Zyra's skill shots are a lot narrower than Lux's and her W takes a lot more skill expression than Lux's. Do I use the plant as a ward? Do I place the plant as a bait? Do I drop the plant right as I release my skillshot (which really helps her damage)?
I would recommend FiddleSticks because you can poke back and silence their long range spells.
Hard engage on the xerath with naut and max W
I have to say I like picking Nautilus in a poke lane, even though they say it's not good.
But if you have an adc who can engage with you (like Lucian or Tristana) and you manage to land a hook it's an easy lane.
I'd take Braum into a lane with Heavy CC and Poke simply because he is a counter to both unless its a CC mage / ranged support which means you'll have to weather the storm until late game. But he's still okay into that matchup if you can manage your W cooldown and your E. If you ADC gets engaged upon you can always jump to them and throw up your shield to block a decent amount of the poke / trade. Wait for them to engage then start getting your passive stacks in. Just by playing Braum the other team is going to be more hesitant to engage on you and your ADC unless one of you is making really aggregious spacing and positioning mistakes.
Theres nothing that spell theif offers that coin does not.
Well I do quite well vs pretty much everyone as Zyra. Her Q is so easy to hit people in so many situations. Her damage is just so immense too I'll punish the fuck out of the asshole who brings Xerath bot.
Only combo that really messes me up is Vel and MF tho.
Vel-MF is awful. Hide in minion wave to dodge vel-Q and you're open to getting second-bounced by MF-Q. Stay safely to the side or far enough back to avoid MF-Q and then Vel-Q becomes almost impossible to dodge. Yuck. Utterly hate going against that lane. Only counter that seems to work against that lane is if my adc goes Cait or maybe Ashe and I go Xerath. Then we have enough poke and range to do something. Those lanes usually end up turning into a blood bath for both teams.
Yes also I have never experienced total fuckery like the marriage of Vel and MF ulting at the same time.
I usually end up begging my ADC and JG to go full-aggro 1-5 with the hopes of seriously gimping MF and Vel because I know once they hit 6 our life will get much more difficult.
I also try to destroy their turret as quickly as possible so we can get the hell out of the lane phase.
Pretty much any healing champ into Varus is a bad matchup since his E applies grievous wounds. Sona, Karma, and Janna work a bit better because the shields aren't affected by it. Karma's tether gives you a nice way to poke and heal through the damage at the same time.
Naut and Leona are both good as long as your ADC is on the same page and willing to all in when you catch someone but you need to control the wave a bit so they can't just farm under tower.
If you want to poke back try out Zyra. The plants give you enough range to keep them low without taking damage yourself and you can just delete them with a full combo if they step out too far.
Morgana is always a good support since you can nullify any CC from them while completely locking them down with your own.
When in doubt, pick Nami. :^)
Agreed but only if you are willing to play aggressive and have an agreement with your ADC that you can't hide.
I see so many people (and I've supported ADC's) who just refuse to be aggressive against a lane like Xerath and Caitlyn. I try to explain that we will never win the poke game, best solution is to all-in and catch the vulnerable support like Xerath (who is really trash as support if you do this). Nami is pretty good at all-ins if you can hit her Q although my Zyra is also excellent at all-ins after 6, especially if I have ignite available.