By - libiciku
They’ll be playing inside a faraday cage, just watch.
How exactly is it suspected that Hans and his coach were cheating?
Super simple version is Hans has cheated at least twice in past 7 years, made it seem small until it came out he cheated much more than he claimed. His coach has some cheat history too. Then he beat Magnus and made some wild claims that he was familiar with the board setup that was shown he has never played.
One thing I would add here is that nothing was ever publicly shown to say it was worse than he said, there was just a vague statement from Chess.com saying that what Hans said wasn’t the full story.
If he cheated only twice and was caught twice he was super unlucky.
Your comment should be higher up. Statistically to be caught the only times you cheated, BOTH times is pretty unlikely. It would essentially mean u suck at it and u would have trouble gaining competitive advantage bc well u tried cheating and immediately were caught.
Given this guys talent level, one of those scenarios is very unlikely.
This entire controversy is just people making vague statements. Could they be true? Maybe. But so far all anyone has done is throw a fit like grade school recess.
The danger is that if a legitimate member of the chess community involved in this says “I believe this person cheated” or “this person is an active cheater” it opens them up to serious risks of libel or slander suits, as well as ruining their reputation if they cannot prove it. People are avoiding a full answer until they can give one with legitimate evidence to back it, which needs to be collected
But if you open up a civil suit for libel or slander all the defense party needs to do is show they cheated on the past. The fact a suit hasn't opened up is shows how shakey the suit would be for the admitted cheater.
Isn't it in the FIDE rules that you can't accuse someone of cheating without hard evidence? There's definitely a gray area between no proof and definitive proof. A suit hasn't opened up because no accusations have been made, or I'm sure Hans would at least involve FIDE about it.
It's been proven that he cheated twice. Like it or not that is qualifiable data. If you really are that good and someone accuses you of cheating you relish it because it gives you the chance to beat their a** again. If Hans is looking for sympathy then he needs to look in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. He's a chess player, so play some fucken chess.
"If Hans is looking for sympathy then he needs to look in the dictionary between shit and syphilis."
This is poetic beauty, bravo
It's a quote from major payne
Want me to show you a little trick; take your mind off that pain?
He also couldn't articulate the tricky positions he navigated suspiciously which would tip off any other GM almost immediately
What other history does he have beside the admitted cheating when he was 12 and 16 in non live games?
He literally just turned 19 in June, not exactly a long time ago for the last time he was caught.... And I emphasize the last part of that sentence
Chess.com said in a statement that there were more occasions, but they didn't give any specifics.
Being caught cheating twice isn’t enough for you?
Being causing twice is enough to be labeled a cheater to me.
How many times would he have to be caught cheating before you think he cheats?
My wife would argue just the one time is enough
People are joking about him using a vibrating butt plug to get information from his coach. In reality it’s most likely that he bought information off someone close to magus. Magnus hasn’t lost a game years and used an opening that he has never done before in his life yet Hans beat him and claims it’s because it miraculously studied that exact opening the morning of the event. The chances that he did that without knowing magnus would use it are 0.
Correction: 53 game win streak not years
Just like in IT - the weakest point in the system is always the humans.
Social engineering is hacking
And also much less interesting than the made up hacking breakneck fast typing.
Magnus hasn’t played that opening, but if Niemann practiced vs Catalan opening, which Magnus played sometimes, then the board state would be the exact same as with this weird opening.
So it’s not unrealistic that Niemann practiced vs Catalan, then recognized the board state and came up with the best move.
Also, nobody would sell information to Niemann, a youngster with virtually zero connections, in a game where he will play black.
I'm also not sure how he'd even manage to buy that information. Approaching someone on the opponent's team seems very likely to just blow up in your face
But that’s not what he said in the interview. He said He miraculous studied that exact opening this morning. Tie that in with him being caught cheating multiple times and his coach being caught cheating before and it becomes more likely than not something was up. Or this is all manufactured because it got people to talk about chess. Who knows
In an interview the following day he clarified that he didn't study the exact opening, he claimed that it was the scenario in the previous comment. He said it was him being nervous/tired after playing the game that caused the confusion when he apparently misspoke.
Folks this is why you shouldn't cheat, because you start to lose the benefit of the doubt.
Two interviews later he covered that he studied the opening because it was a transposition from the Catalan. Makes sense he wouldn't say that in the first interview because why would he give away information about his prep.
I mean that’s just not true lol. It transposed into a game that Magnus had already played and Hans literally mentioned which one it was. Not to mention that most analysts and experts have said that he probably didn’t cheat
This is the part that is always left out. Magnus has played this line before and Hans cited the place and time. His moves were not out of the ordinary when compared VS computer lines. There are definitely some weird things going on but so far all the evidence points towards Hans being innocent.
Right now it's a bit like when people suspect that an athlete dopes, but there is no hard evidence. No one knows how or what he's taking, but that doesn't remove the suspicion.
It's a bit worse in this case, because Hans is known to have cheated in the past. It's really more of a question of if he cheated this time.
Don't forget the tin-foil hats (and underwear).
If he’s confident in his abilities, perhaps he should genuinely offer to do it. Could clear his name. It’s a big risk tho because if he loses everyone will take it as confirmation even if he played fair both times
Damned if he does damned if he doesn’t it seems
At least this way he’d be rich and damned haha. He’s got way more attention on him than he’ll likely have again, and if he suffers a series of losses or gets blackballed obscure this it could be a very short career. Might be his only chance to capitalize. And if he did win fairly, and believes he can again, that would be the one way to really set things straight. I don’t think anyone would doubt the first win if he replicated in such a scenario. Or maybe the conspiracy theories would just get more elaborate, knowing people. Yeah, you know what, you’re probably right haha
Jesus Christ lmao
It's comments like these that make me love the internet
were gonna need a r/dankchess sub for these kinda memes
You’re looking for r/AnarchyChess
Ah thank you
Missing the obvious PawnHub
He’s going to show us what he can do with that bishop
Feet fetishists, meet hans fetishists.
Well played, homie
Bead me to it
What is he supposed to do? Spread his cheeks for camera? Lmao
As Mike Honcho.
I did a full spread for Playgirl Magazine. I mean spread, man, I pulled my butt apart and stuff...I was totally nude...it was weird.
I just wanted you to know that.
Haha my thoughts exactly
That or they'll have an action cam pointed at his butt the whole time.
"Let's go to Trisha on the sideline for an update. How his cheeks looking Trisha?"
“Well Tom, I would have to say underwhelming to say the least. So far, we have yet to see any sign of anything resembling an “anal bead.” We did see a pucker of the sphincter, but we surmise that it was from the queen to B5 move that has just taken place. We’ll update you more if anything changes.
Back to you, Tom!”
Yeah this does nothing to disprove the anal beads/butt plug theory.
Wait til you see where the camera is…
You know those hand cameras they use in televised poker? Like that, but for is anus
It’s very unlikely an electronic device would’ve gone amiss, even if it was in his ass, with regards to the security measures used by the tournament. They do a thorough search as well as using a metal detecting wand. They even go as far as checking participants gum. While it’s not certain whether Hans did cheat for sure, it’s unlikely he used a device.
Wait, do you think they checked in his asshole?
I think what's implied when this statement is made is that he wouldn't have been able to hide it from a wand even flush up there. I don't know shit though; has just been an interesting story that I wonder how it ends.
He can sit on one of those transparent chairs.
I don't see why he wouldn't do it, as long as he gets cash up front.
But chances are they have no intention to pay the million and just put this offer out for the publicity.
Sometimes a man's gotta do... what a man does.
A man's gotta eat Mr. Lahey
Dooooon't plan the plan if you can't follow through!
All that matters, Taking matters into your own hands.
Soon I'll control everything
My wish is your command
Stand back everyone, nothing here to see!
Man's gotta eat, Julian.
Getting that kind of mainstream exposure for any cam site that’s not onlyfans must be near impossible. If I was in charge of marketing for such a business I would probably give up a year or two’s worth of budget to get it done.
I mean it's not his job to prove he didn't cheat. And even doing this humiliating affair won't prove it.
Of course it isn't, and of course it won't, but $1,000,000 is a lot of money and it's not like Musk's stupidity can be put back in the bottle.
I meant he should do it for the million. Disproving cheating accusations has nothing to do with it.
Showing my penis online is well worth $1,000,000. I’m so humiliated in my my new mansion 😢😢
where you bros getting mansions for a mil these days?
$1 million was the 20% down payment 😂
Good luck with the mortgage
I know dignity is a foreign concept to most redditors but cmon man
You're telling me you wouldn't appear naked on camera in a non-sexual setting for a million dollars, at 19 years old? C'mon man.
Hell I would have appeared naked on camera for less than half that at any point in my life.
Accepted offers of a contract generally create a burden to deliver the promised good or service, and a party that fails to deliver is open to lawsuit, even if contracts aren’t written or signed.
If he agrees to do it the company (if their financial team has any competence) will be able to raise the million easily.
Well that and the sponsorship from Dr. Jellyfingers Remote Control Butt Beads.
We need more of these.
New season announced!!
[literally word for word](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xf1w6b/cam_site_offers_hans_niemann_1_million_to_play/iojyk1b?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Edit: seeing as we're not being original I'll go first
Can you imagine the controversy when a prim and proper tournament refuses to allow the scandalous porn star GM to compete?
/u/TallAssociation0 has posted 3 comments on this thread that are just directly copied from the earlier /r/chess thread. Are people really that desperate for karma? So weird.
Maybe they're a bot? I know in other subs there are bots that steal comments.
Damn that guy got gold for stealing a comment lol
A One Man Party can't be in an alliance, it's a paradox.
YOU ARE DONE.
He’s not the only one whose about to pop off if he performs nude 👁👁
I would ask for him to completely shave off all hair, and I want an infrared cam and a clear table and chair.
Also 3 separate camera angles. One specifically for Deez
Technically we would have to check his asshole like the TSA on southpark! 🤣🤣🤣
"just going to check ya asshole"
brain dead karma farming bot. you deserve to be dehumanized
Man r/sports is really far behind in the chess drama
As someone who regularly follows competitive chess. It's like looking into the past of r/chess with almost the same reactions and takes and info coming out in real time. It's kinda wild. I can't wait for the people here to react to the Max Dlugy stuff because that really threw everything on it's head.
I can’t wait to see the write up in hobby drama
You gotta be on /r/AnarchyChess to stay ahead of the curve.
I rely on the bot pointing out what /r/chess posts are being mocked in /r/AnarchyChess to keep informed. :)
Yeah, this is like a week old.
Well that will teach him a lesson! Busted! Here's $1 million and infamy you can use moving forward to cash out on
The man beat the highest rated chess player in the world. If Hans is that good then his future is promising and he could earn much more than 1 million.
If playing nude somehow doesn't prove his innocence then this quick cash grab is all he'll get.
"Let go live now to the Colonoscope"
"Thanks Frank, still no cheating in here"
Couldn't he just put something up his butt to signal him with vibrations what to move? Might be an elaborate communication scheme to work out, but doable.
To win the world chess championship a lot of people would do a surgical implant of a device.
Why can’t they play in a faraday cage
He actually commented that he was willing to to that... Not that anyone is likely to actually set that up.
It's like $80 of chicken wire and some duct tape.
I wasn't talking about expense here, I'd just be surprised if the World Chess Championship really wants to do this. Sure--someone would be willing to, but an established tournament playing the right caliber of opponent doing it seems unlikely to me.
Yeah they would definitely spring for the *fancy* chicken wire.
It wouldn’t be that hard. A Faraday cage can be as simple as a chicken wire box. It might look goofy but it would be good enough to prove his point
Worlds first chess cage match
"BAH GOD, IT'S MAGNUS WITH A STEEL CHAIR"
Steel chair to E-murder
It's not much of a stretch from [chess boxing.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing)
What a sport. Should be more of it
A faraday cage wouldn’t defeat a localized chess engine somewhere in their clothing, which has also been allegedly used by him and have been known to be used by other chess cheaters.
Oh so it has to be naked + faraday cage?
My interest is piqued
Might as well put them in space while we’re at it
Start with an EMP
Morse code using a remote controled vibrator shoved up his bum.
Purposely makes the wrong move just so coach would repeatedly zap him with WRONG MOVE SISSY BOY.
Realistically there are less intrusive devices that could be used that would be undetectable event if naked. Microdevices on the scalp or even under the skin would be untraceable.
Yeah, but not nearly as much fun as butt vibrations.
I haven't been paying attention to this story but I was under the impression that's what he was already accused of.
That started as a joke on the internet that somehow got traction.
He's not accused of cheating in any offical way. He's just known to have cheated in the past, and many high level players, most notoriously Magnus Carlsen believes he's cheating in the present.
If he's cheating, it's currently unclear how he's doing it. There's no hard evidence for any specific way. Just a lot of suspicion and speculation.
He was caught using an engine in online chess, once when he was 12 years old and once when he was 16 years old in a high level tournament with a cash price. He's now 19 years old.
Chess.com has also said that his cheating was more extensive than this, but they're not revealing any details, likely because of legal reasons. Magnus Carlsen who is the main accuser has likely seen this however.
Other than that there's no hard evidence, just a bunch of suspicious circumstances.
It's also of note that chess.com recently bought/partnered with one of Magnus' companies.
So it's possible he learned of additional information about Hans once that happened
He cheated online (self-admitted), which is immensely easier to do than cheating OTB. There is no proof that he has ever cheated OTB
Cheating online on chess.com, supposedly to help launch his streaming career.
Niemann himself has admitted to cheating online in the past, using an engine to essentially play the game for it. He admitted he did it at least once when he was 12, and again a few years later in an attempt to skip the ELO grind online, in order to play more "challenging" games legitimately
How do you cheat at chess? (Serioud question, I have no idea how it's even possible In a live online game)
Play against a computer/AI. You pretend to be your opponent and do his moves. Copy whatever moves the computer does against you and use them yourself as the computer will beat the human 100/100 times.
So there's no regulating body to watch the screens or something? Like a screen share to make sure no one does that?
Keep in my mind these are grandmasters. They can play/win without looking at the board and just hearing the coordinates of where pieces are being moved. Like they memorize and know the best move by just hearing coordinates. They’re that good. If someone could send a morse code vibration of coordinates they could totally translate that to the board.
Not even that - all they need is a buzz to know that a critical move is possible. Often times grandmasters play very quickly and try to juggle many strategies at once. A simple buzz let’s them know that they should pause, reassess the board and look for an important move they could make
Just pretend you get a buzz every move, win 100% of the time
Knowing there is a move is so much more powerful than thinking there could be a move. I am much more capable when playing online puzzles than I am playing an actual game, this is because I know there is a winning move I can find.
This guy chesses
Not enough time
Someone posted a similar comment earlier but it’s like how if you ever do the chess practice on lichess or chess.com, it has you do these scenarios where it tells you there is a checkmate possible in a few moves and you need to find it.
Simply the knowledge that there is a critical move/set of moves on the board can change your play drastically. I can find these 3 or 5 move checkmates and I’m fucking trash.
If there was something buzzing Hans that there is a gamechanging move on the board, he will find it. He’s a grandmaster.
My old coworker was great at chess, went to a chess high/prep school of some kind. He would just be working, developing software and my boss would have a board off to the side, calling out moves during the day. He never really broke concentration or thought too long and would call out his move back, never looking at the board, and always win as far as I remember. It was wild and very funny.
Some master level players will hold blindfold simuls-- playing multiple people at once without looking at the boards, just doing it all in their heads.
They obviously check that… some commenters think he was given a device to send signals, but Hans was patted down and there’s no visible ear piece.
The accusation is that he had a receiver, but it wasn’t in his *ear*.
It was in his REAR!
It’s always the last place you look
That was a joke that media started running with as an “accusation”
They don't need to copy every move either, critical junctions are enough. They are very strong players so that last push is enough.
One theory I heard is having a device that signals a large shift in expected win rate. Someone outside the game could give you a small buzz to look closer for a possible mistake.
However, in this specific case, I think the real theory is that hans accessed Magnus's game preparation so that he would know which opening magnus was planning to use, so that he could focus on countering it.
In online games, it comes down to letting someone/ something else do the math for you, instead of doing the planning and strategy yourself.
I personally don't ascribe to that theory. Part of what made his win so suspicious was how he seemed completely ignorant of that position while simultaneously saying he was studying it the day of and beat the greatest chess player in the word in it moments ago.
Hans has cheated in the past and he's suddenly doing very unusually well OTB against people far higher rated than him. Since the only way cheaters are caught in chess, for the most part, is statistical anomalies and improbabilities I don't see the implications to be that unreasonable.
The line he claimed to have studied that very morning was a line that Magnus has never played before in any recorded match. Literally thousands of games.
As I see it, either Hans is lying about his prep (for reasons unknown), Hans is terrible at prep (wasting time studying lines almost certain not to be played) and got incredibly lucky, or Magnus's prep got leaked.
Only one of those options, lying about his prep, explains Hans apparent lack of understanding in the line. Which just raises the question of why he would lie about it.
Somebody watching the match feeding the moves into a program and then sending a signal to a device on the player to vibrate in some way to tell them what move to make. It's honestly a lot more elaborate and difficult to pull off than it sounds.
When they make a dramatic movie about this saga in chess history, can we please call it ths kings gambit.
I insist it be something sassy.
How did playing nude prove anything when he was accused of having vibrating anal beads in his butt. You can’t see them then he is naked because they are inside his butt. But
It wouldn't matter anyway. So what if he loses while naked and searched? Losing to the best in the world doesn't mean the previous win was invalid. It just means that the world's #1 is pretty good, actually.
Given all the internal options, the best thing to do is probably to give him a full body x-ray just before he plays. The amount of metal needed for a device to vibrate is relatively little.
Cam site gets free advertisement.
Assuming this guy didn't actually cheat, he's in such a shitty position.
If we just assume that he had a big upset and beat Carlson legit, then the next time they play if Carlson wins, people are going to assume the 1st time he won, he did in fact cheat.
When in fact, the true reason may just be that Carlson was having a bad day when he lost to this guy.
Now, if they play again and he beats Carlson yet again, then what? He goes through life with people thinking he's one of the greats now because he beat THE great back to back.
You sir have just described reputation. Thats why you dont cheat in the first place and thats why you dont get in bed with a coach whos cheated. What hes reaping now is just the consequences of his past actions.
Actually they played again yesterday.
Carlsen resigned on move 2, likely in protest to either cheating in chess at large or directly in protest to Hans potentially cheating
> likely in protest to either cheating in chess
oh so it might just be that he thinks Hans past alone should be enough for him to be excluded from tournaments and stuff.
This all began because Hans has admitted to cheating in the past. [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) says he has cheated even more times than he is currently admitting to. Add that to the fact that he's risen to his current rank faster than any chess player in history. So if your a know cheater you cant have a shocked Pikachu face when people accuse you of cheating.
You can just say surprised.
Even if he did this, no one would be satisfied. We would repeatedly hear …
“One game proves nothing.”
“We know he would try to cheat in other games.”
“They didn’t check for (insert myth technology).”
“Someone trying not to be caught cheating would make that silly move to throw us off.”
He should take the million. Some of his future opponents will not be able to handle his notoriety after that. If you are thinking about anything other than chess moves at the board, you’re toast against any GM.
At first I thought that the one guy’s name was Cam Site.
Magnus won’t be satisfied unless there’s a camera up his asshole
How exactly do you cheat at chess, and what does wearing clothes have to do with it?
Computers are far stronger than humans at chess these days so if you can get a chess engine to give you the best moves you would win every time
The most common way of cheating is hiding some sort of device on your person that can do that
Oh that makes sense.
Note that you don't necessarily need to hide a device on you. All you would need is to somehow get information from a computer delivered to you.
This could be anything from having a small computer or radio receiver on you, to having an accomplice that signals information to you somehow.
At this level of chess, you also wouldn't need very much information to get a significant edge. Just knowing if there's a critical move in a specific situation would be enough. You could for example have an accomplice that looks to the right when that's true, and to the left when it's untrue, or similar signalling. That would be extremely hard to actually catch.
So cheating could very from very simple to pretty sophisticated, and cheating done well in chess would be crazy hard to catch.
Hans is accused of being a serial online cheater. He has admitted to cheating twice in the past, but both [chess.com](https://chess.com) and some other grandmasters have claimed his cheating in online tournaments goes way beyond what he's admitted to.
That said, cheating in OTB (over-the-board) tournaments is much more difficult and I still haven't seen or heard any claims that he's cheated in those tournaments. It would need to involve something extremely high-tech since he's been scanned with metal detectors and RFID scanners, played with lengthy stream delays, and still put out amazing performances.
This is where meme-theories like "vibrating anal-beads" have entered into recent discussions...
The butt plug is just the meme technique. There is a good post on the front page of chess breaking down a lot of ways the information could be relayed. There are a lot bc there is surprisingly little information needed to be sent
Another person watches the game, puts the move into a trained chess engine and communicates the predictad winning move back with some sort of wireless device worn on the players body.
If after all of this it turns out that Magnus has no proof of cheating OTB it’s going to look really bad for him. He’s purposefully trying to destroy this kid’s career
To be fair, in the past, he's a proven cheater. That's why this has come up. If he didn't cheat previously, this wouldn't be an issue and I doubt Magnus would've taken offense. He fucked himself.
I mean, he does have a history of cheating.
Isnt it UP TO 1 million?
I mean, I think maybe on the day where he plays chess in the buck, he might remember to not tape that cheating computer to his taint? Kinda declaws that "to prove he didn't cheat" part.
Even if he lost, you think people would assume it's because he didn't have his secret under-the-balls calculator? I would probably assume he lost because it's tough to remember a specific sideline, 30 moves into the Berlin Defense of the Ruy Lopez, when you can feel the air conditioning on your dick. ;)