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I’m picturing him raising his brow as he answered the question lol




Wait that means you’ve seen without raised brows 🤯


To summon the black magic?


Hardly a groundbreaking story this.




🤣 It's like...looking worse is part of the strategy. The question remains: " How bad can we get and still be the CL champions?"🤔


Chelsea 2012 already won that trophy


Bayern broke the record number of shots and corners in a CL final and Barcelona should have won 10-2 on aggregate with clinical finishing That Chelsea is the worst ever team to even reach a CL final, let alone win the title. They had many great teams between 2004 and 2010 or so that would have been more worthy winners, but the 2012 team won on pure luck really. They were awful


2004 Monaco was worse than that 2012 team on paper.


(For the sake of the joke I'll ignore how great/experienced that team was and just say).... No-one could counter Chelsea's secret weapon: DiMatteo


I mean, they were pretty impressive last year. Won the double quite convincingly.


Don’t know if I agree with that but I also don’t disagree haha Man City should have beaten them (especially in the first leg) but then they did what they did and they beat so many great teams on the way. I don’t understand - it’s Don Carlo, Vini, Benzema and Courtois


That 15 minutes in PSG game man. Still don’t know how those fkers pulled it. Guess Karim being a haji paid off big time


It was Pogba's paying a sorcerer


I still go back and watch Vini turning Fernandinho. Made the man look like he was 67, not 37


>quite convincingly Do you know what convincingly means? The CL run was impressive but very far from convincing.


If they had defeated PSG, Chelsea, City and Liverpool by 2+ goals then it would've been convincing. There are very few convincing runs in the CL history


Same here Carlo, see you boys in the final ✊✊


I hope we face you sometime in this season.


no please


Come on you guys are the league champions, stronger than ever in the last 10 years. And the second most champions league title holder. Would be an amazing match between Madrid and Milan


Well partially for me it's because Madrid is my favorite team in Spain so I would like avoid them until at least the semifinals


We're up to par to go against them, but we're not really up to par.




Of all the clubs apart from RM, I would like to see Milan win a CL. They are CL giants and they have gone without a CL for far too long.


Sometimes I think shit, we have to win a CL so that Milan don’t catch up. Then I remember we just won our 14th


Pre La Decima feelings. I remember.


Man, damn feels like a lifetime ago.


I started watching football back in 2004. Back then, Milan had 6 and Real had 9. Then Milan won in 2007 and I remember thinking they were so close now. Yeah, we're in the clear now.


You'll have Bayern and Liverpool catching up before Milan


Game is gone.


I think Liverpool are more likely to catch you up than Milan (it’s very unlikely for either)


We have been on the hunt for the 10th so long and we’ve won so many CLs in a short period of time that it still doesn’t fully click. I think Liverpool are on the decline, if I’m honest but yes, if they hadn’t met us twice in the final, they’d probably have won both times.


I think they could be momentarily on the decline but it wouldn’t discount them. They’re well run (despite being stingy with transfers sometimes) and they’ve signed some good future talents. If they dip for a bit they’ll be back strong relatively soon. TAA, Fabio Carvalho, Harvey Elliott, Luis Diaz, Nunez all have years in them and Robbo and Van Dijk aren’t old.


I would prefer a Rangers vs Celtic final


Shit brethren, same.


Yeah, the players can hold hands and the fans will bring out a banner: "thank you Beckham".


Thanks to Beckham, Kaka, Carlo


Seedorf, Lopez, Brahim, Essien too


You both forgot Redondo


How can you forget Ronaldo?


I would love to see Milan compete in the CL again and get to the late stages of it! Over the likes of Psg, city, chelsea, etc… prefer the clubs with history and non-oil clubs over those kinds.


Milan were the OG Man City


Sorry, no room for you lot, we're going to be in the final 🗣🗣🗣


Forgot to switch flairs or you forgor that we in Europa?


i was joking do i have to put /s at the end? fucking hell


Subreddit 's gone.


I upvoted you haha


Apparently MU winning another CL scares a lot of people 😱 Don't even joke about it..and specially don't joke about it if you're not even playing in CL this year. Jokes aside you should win EL this year..., protest some more, and win CL next year 🤣


Damn, what has it been? 9 years since Milan played a CL game? Welcome back 🤠


I don’t mind either. Give me real at + money any day


people just don’t learn that when Real Madrid plays in Europe they have some sort of magic… it’s legacy, can’t predict that


Opposite is true as well. City are ALWAYS favorites even though they never won it.


I think they’re more likely to now. This City team is scary


English media for the last 5 years


I hear that but Haaland scoring 10 in 6 is scaring me haha


It's football heritage


Who even asked those nerds? They should stick to making books and not interfere in other areas of expertise. 🤓


Everybody knows it's actually 50/50, they win or they don't. And I didn't even pass math class


This guy maths








Or he doesn’t


The power of friendship > virgin data scientists


Are you a Bill Burr fan?


Real Madrid can get used to being the underdogs, it's usually when everyone least expects them to perform and then they come in and win every big game. Just look at their threepeat and last season as case studies. Atalanta and even Barca were given a likelier chance of winning the UCL last season than RM which goes to show you how little the bookmakers know.


Almost every CL they look worse than the last yet they keep winning them. They're able to pull wins even when getting outplayed, their mentality is on another level. Clubs like City, PSG, Dortmund could use an internship there to know how its done.


Dortmund is welcome to an internship - the other two not so much!


They need to Biels' it up and send spies


>>Dertmund is welcome to an internshi Only if they give us Bellingham👀




> City, PSG, Dortmund Why band Dortmund in with the plastic clubs? They have actually won a champions league.


The guy has BVB flair so i thought of them too, it's not that deep. Dortmund is notorious for it too, just a couple weeks ago they choked a 2 goal lead at the 89'.


I don't think the mentality of a manager and players from 25 years ago has much to do with the current team, who fit into that same 'bottlers' bracket.


Sure, but Dortmund operate at a completely different level to PSG and City.


Bookmakers aren't trying to predict the future, only how betting lines effect their profits. It's a business remember, not a service. Odds are for them, not us.


Bookmakers don’t really try to predict what happens, they’re predicting how bettors will place their bets, and then adjust lines based on where bettors are putting their money


So bettors are dumb


99% are losing money, so yes.


Bookmakers know. They have been using Real Madrid to get better profits for years now. People were betting massively on PSG and City last season. They all lost. Ever since our second in a row and the odds we received, I have been thinking it's on purpose. It's impossible they are that stupid so there must be something else in play.


Can't predict how RM will do in CL..no matter how big your SuperComputer is...if the god of football decides that we should score twice in the 90th min...done, no more odds or math or predictions...just the magic of the game


>goes to show you how little the bookmakers know Maybe just maybe the bookmakers take into consideration other factors than who is more likely to win. Perhaps even current bets :O


no shame in being behind Paris St-Germain, Manchester City, Liverpool, ~~HSV~~, Lederhosen


Lol no way we are in the 4 favourites, I'm terrified of our group stage with how our midfield has looked.


I had to click on the article to see. It has Bayern, PSG, City, and you guys as the top 5. Honestly an insult the Real to not have to them above a single one, if not all, of those teams.


The midfield hasn't drastically changed since 6 months ago when Liverpool reached the final. Especially when some of the injuries clear up, I think Liverpool will be contenders in the CL. They're always stronger against teams that come out and attack rather than play low blocks.


It's moreso we have found out just how poor our midfield is if Thiago is unable to play, which is often. I have never seen such a huge drop off from one player missing in our Klopp team, they just totally fall apart.


Do people not realize that odds are determined by the betting. Bookmakers just adjust them accordingly


Being 5th favourites doesn't really mean you're underdogs, what does that make the other 27 teams? And bookies odds are just where the money is going. I think City are favorites and then Real in the group right behind them.


>And bookies odds are just where the money is going. This always gets misunderstood


depends, for such a thing where you have milions of people from around the world you can easily just take odds based on where the money is going (and of course lower the odds a bit to make profit), but they're also able to provide great odds using just pure statistics (which they have a lot of to derive data from).


Real Madrid will have an easy time in the groups stage. I think that's gonna help start the knockout stage a bit more rested. I seriously think, on a 2 leg draw, Real Madrid is capable of defeating any team, and most likely will. Honestly, I would consider them top 3 favorites. So far, they've won 4 out of 4 games in la Liga and seem stronger than last year. Except, Man City, I don't see Liverpool, Chelsea, PSG, or Bayern that much stronger than last season.


Worth keeping in mind that the knock-outs start in the middle of February - and there's a World Cup in between. I don't think there's all that much rest to be had after the group stage for most of the players, and until the World Cup ends there's a significantly increased injury risk due to the tightly packed schedule, too.


But most of the CL contenders have players in the world cup, so the damage done to them thru injuries is just as much likely to affect the other teams as well..


Sure, but maybe different teams are better equipped to handle that, or they dodge those injuries while Real doesn't.


Yeah, but that's just as likely as Real being the team that dodges the injuries and handles them better.. It's too early to tell as of now how exactly the world cup would affect each competition and which teams would benefit the most and get hurt the most..


Wym ? we don’t have that many players in the world cup smh


PSG are definitely better than last season imo


I rate this PSG but Madrid is something else in the CL, no team should be confident about facing them not even Bayern PSG City.


Yeah I’m not saying Madrid shouldn’t be confident vs PSG, its Real Madrid and they should be confident against literally anyone otherwise you shouldn’t play for them, but PSG under Galtier is so much better than PSG under Poch. This guy is saying they haven’t improved


My bad i didnt read his comment til the end. PSG look much stronger definitely. Only Monaco gave them a game so far. I have hopes Juventus will, Di Maria, Paredes and Rabiot for the ex player factor.


PSG can be as good as they think they are, but if your goalkeeper gets a brainfart and your defender is shaking on his legs then its gonna be a hard time. On paper PSG is the clear favorite.


Yep City, PSG, Barca


Are they? Have they been tested yet?


PSG *is* a lot better and you are forgetting Barca.


Barca's team are still very new and young they have recruited well but they are no where near the cl trophy Most they should be hoping for is laliga and a good cl run with no embarrassments maybe next season they can compete


City are for sure stronger than last season but I would say PSG is too, especially their manager and the new midfield signings they’ve made. Chelsea got weaker imo even though they made some signings. They don’t look to even be top 5 favorites for me. Liverpool for sure got weaker as well. Bayern too, lewa > mane so that does it. Even as a madrid fan, will admit i think barca should be a top 5 favorite for cl this season.


I don't see Barca making a deep CL run with Xavi and the youngsters yet. They have a couple years for him to mold out the squad and really get his vision going imo, but the trajectory they're on is promising.


The thing is with CL, most strong teams will have a chance. Like even though Liverpool/Chelsea are weaker than last year it's still not guaranteed that they'd lose to Real Madrid even if Real Madrid will be favorites.


I don’t know, I always put Real in the 1st possible winner, regardless of the situation and opposition, lol.


It’s going to be like this forever now that other clubs can spend much more than Madrid. These juiced squads then buff their league stats and fool the algorithms into rating them higher than they should.


That, or the CL is just a small sample size that's inherently prone to wild results


5 cl titles in less than 10y doesnt seem like "wild results".


Real’s games vs City and PSG last year were pretty wild


Sure, but the wild results implies some randomness, and winning 5 out of 8 seems pretty consistent. Wild results makes it feel like lottery.


*Bookies seem to be huge fans of ESPN FC SPI Predictions.*




Thank you, finally someone said it. The final was just full and absolute control from Madrid. Liverpool had 9 shots on goal, 2 of them were chances: Mane's when he ditched Militao, and it never happened again, and Salah when Mendy did enough to force him into a smaller space and allowed Courtois to cover the angle. The other 7 shots were not an issue for Courtois. Carvajal played a perfect game, pocketed anyone and everyone on his flank and was part of the exchange that dismantled Liverpool's flank for Vini's goal. Militao had one slip on Mane's chance. Alaba, perfect game. Mendy did enough to salvage the only bad situation he had with Salah. Casemiro not only did not get a card, he did not comit a single foul. Kroos is just Kroos 99% accuracy and setting the pace and drawing fouls, perfect as he usually is without anybody remembering he played. Modric started the end for Liverpool by drawing their left flank in for the press and destroying it with a through ball. Valverde ran his heart out and failed a shot which happened to turn into a perfect assist. Benzema did not let them rest for a minute. Vini...is just relentless. If you ask anybody how he was until the goal the answer is average. The problem is that he runs at you for 120 if needed until you slip once. I also absolutely loved the pettiness from Don Carlo to send Ceballos, Rodrygo and Camavinga for the last minutes. Basically saying that if the game was not going his way, he had them ready to turn up the heat. Liverpool looked gassed after 30 minutes and demoralized after Benzema's disallowed goal. I can understand gassed after playing most of 70 games on 3 subs and at the very end fighting for 4/4 but after the 50th minute it also felt like they gave up... I don' t see us repeating, but I didn't see us win it all last year. If it's s not us I hope it's Liverpool/Bayern/Barcelona or Milan. Someone with tradition, not sportswashing oil money.


I don't think statistics really apply to Madrid though, they are an anomaly. You had analysts saying that they had no clear playstyle or system from 2014 to 2018 either and that it was really hard to analyse them. They were never tactically brilliant like Pep's Barca or whatever, there was no clear tactical philosophy that they followed in every match. People went "they can't keep getting away with this" every time but they kept winning There is something intangible about that club that statistics can't pick up. Something about the name Real Madrid that makes their players believe that they will always find a late goal, and makes the opponents think that no matter what they do the late goal is coming. You're not just playing against 11 guys on the pitch you are playing against 70 years of European Cup pedigree and plot armor too I think these factors means that they can actually keep winning in "unsustainable" ways, they don't need to play well they just get the win no matter how


I do not remember where I read it, but I remember someone used to say “the most important part of being a Real Madrid manager is to sustain - like, keep them in the fight - for the first 60 minutes of the game, then just sit there and let them loose for the last 30”.


Maybe not having a clearly defined tactical system helps them. You look at prime Barca and they always stuck to the same tactic, so teams learnt how to play against them. They sat back and hit them on the counter, Mourinho's Inter did this in 2010 and later Chelsea in 2012. Both went on to win it. Bayern also came up with a genius counter-pressing system to their tiki-taka and absolutely obliterated them 7-0 over two games in 2013. They also went on to win it. Meanwhile you have Madrid. They don't have a clearly defined system. They're versatile, you don't really know what you're up against. It makes it harder to plan. You know they're an all-time great team but how exactly do you counter them? What's the game plan? Do you fight fire with fire against the likes of BBC, KCM, and that insanely good backline? Or you can look for a counter-strategy, but what is it? Madrid's unpredictability is a big reason for why they've won 5 in 8 years. Having a clear tactical philosophy is a double-edged sword. Sure, it amplifies your existing strengths, but it also makes you one-dimensional and predictable, which can bite you in the big stage. That's why prime Barca only managed two CLs despite many arguing they're the best team of all time.


Analytics in general severely underrate counter attacking sides or teams that change how they play depending on the score, definitely needs adjusting. If a team sits back on a one or two goal lead and gets "dominated" but then will switch to a more offensive style if the game ties will consistently be characterized as "lucky" under analytics. Likewise teams that play the exact same way for whole matches regardless of score tend to be overrated by models. How many times have predictors like 538 been wrong about the Champions league the last seven years? Probably almost every time, as Pep hasn't won it. Compared to other sports it's not normal to be wrong that consistently.


Bro what... Who told you that analytics depends on having a consistent play style? Because that's wrong lol


I never said it depends upon it, just that it's more accurate when there is consistency within a match of a team's playstyle


The 'lack of style' from those years (and still applies today) has made people undermine the success we had in the past decade. You often hear people praise this or that team but not Real Madrid (or not as often as it should be considering the titles won), to the point that there's still people who think it was all down to luck. People remember Pep's Barcelona because they were dominant and their style was, well, you know. But I think this team is not lesser than that one, just different. Playing like that Barcelona was extremely hard and you needed certain players that no many teams can have (Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, etc), they were a 10 with their style... But this Real Madrid side can play it all. Real Madrid has no problem sitting back when facing a dominant team, can play counter-attack and exploit teams playing with a high line, can take the control of the game and dominate as well... The 'lack of style' is just a team that's an all around complete package. Maybe the team is not a '10' in any style but they're a 8-9 in every one of them. And that adaptability, even during games, is also really hard to achieve (and very useful facing a wide range of teams, that helps winning in CL).


Yeah, if anything the "lack of style" was their damn style. Zidane's Madrid (picking him specifically since the "they have no set tactics" was far more often used against him than Carlo) was defined by their flexibility. It became even more apparent in Zidane's 2nd go around when they won the league by just all of a sudden becoming basically hte best defensive team in Spain.


I mean, Twitter also kept saying « they can’t keep getting away with it » all through the 14th run.


*Surely lightning can't strike 14 times*


>but the manner in which they won last year was so improbable that it’s unlikely they pull off something like that again. Until it happens again and people get both annoyed and surprised at the same time.


Twitter people don’t know shit about football


Unlike us geniuses right here. Please remind me, are Arsenal good or bad this week? I think I've missed the last memo.


Imagine thinking being ranked as 5th best team in the world makes you an underdog, lol


It means something when you’re the holder of the cup.


And when you're the holder of the cup by only narrowly skirting by and getting carried to hell and back by two individual players, that seems very accurate.


Benzema, Courtois, Vini and Modric are 4 players who were key last season. This is not including Valverde, Rodrygo and Alaba. So at least 7 players were world class last season. So yeah, it wasn't just 2 players carrying the team. Each player was brilliant when it mattered.


Honestly if the excellence of only 2 players were enough to win, the teams we beat must’ve been pretty shit lol.


Call it what you want, buddy.


Could any other team in the world have beaten: PSG, Chelsea, City and Liverpool in a row to win the CL? There was a reason the games were so close - this was basically the ultra elite of Europe except for Bayern


>And when you're the holder of the cup full stop.


Bayern has around 20%, City 18%, PSG 16%, Liverpool 10% and then Real 6% chances to win it (Barca and Ajax both with 5%). So at least compared to top 3 favourites, Real is underdog based on models and bookmakers. They were underdogs last season too - they were underdogs in literally every play-off series.


18% is to 6% what 6% is to 2%. I'm pretty sure Real Madrid is very close in competitiveness with City. 50-50, maybe 60-40 for City, and that's being generous for them. Anyways a higher chance than a 2% team would probably have against RM. Does not correspond to reality. Hence why Madrid are underdogs, it's mainly relatively speaking to bookmakers odds.


> they were underdogs in literally every play-off series. Not tipped to win, maybe, but not fucking underdogs.


When 3 teams have literally 2,5x - 3x higher chances, yes, it means underdog compared to them.


Why you so hurt


Lol wut


How does bayern have a 20% lol? Wtf. They lost their best player


When did Kimmich and Neuer leave?


Lol fair enough u got me. Kimmich is actually imo but ya know attackers are always favored + 50 goals a season


Based on models and predictions. Every model will tell you different number but they will be mostly similar. Unlike fans' opinions, those are based on real stats. No matter how much you disagree.


But they also signed the best in the world, no if and buts.


Last i checked benzema still plays for madrid…


You missed the meme sir.


EVERYBODY is an underdog!


If you're 5th best then they're implying you'll be out on the quarter finals.


No, because that's a) not how knockouts with random draws work and b) even then just a probability.


In recent times the one place I’ll always put Real as favorites is in the Champions League. Do these guys not watch CL football?


Feel like the man feeds off disrespek


Wait until he rawdogs man city and psg again to the trophy


After winning it once again next year; “I ain’t surprised motherfuckers”


Should’ve stayed at Everton if you didn’t mind being an underdog


You just can't use the word underdogs to describe Real Madrid in the champions league.. That's just ridiculous..


Carlo coming to complete his side quest b2b UCL champion..


Considering top 2 of bookies, City and PSG won't win it ever, Real Madrid is third favorites instead.


I can’t deal with Madrid making a run again. It’s too much




As a Benzema hater, this last year has been hard enough. It needs to stop.


Thing is they haven’t played the best football in Europe for a couple years and their squad is aging. I think it’s fair but obviously they’re mentality monsters so I reckon they have to be a bit better than fifth favourites


Theres only 3 players greater than 30 years in the squad, with Benzema, Modric and Kroos. Throw in the bench and its 4 with Hazard. Only Benzema does not have a direct replacement. I would not call this squad an aging squad


Real Madrid always have their next generation on the bench, it rarely turns out that way. You can go back and read about the hype in 2017 with Theo being Marcelo's replacement, Dani Carvajal being the new midfield replacement, Llorente being Casemiro's replacement, and they all failed at Madrid. As long as Kroos and Modric are starting they don't have a replacement. The players that replace them have to play up to their level to be considered their replacements.


It may not have turned out to be the exact players that they had in mind, but there has been replacements, and many of them seem to be working out though.


I'm just saying that after like 3 cycles of this, I won't say anyone is anyones replacement until they actually replace them.


I guess we can do a breakdown: Lunin may be on the bench, but thays only because Courtois is only 30, as a goalkeeper. Militao and Mendy are already playing first team for LB and RCB, at 27 and 24. Alaba/Rudiger are near the same age at 30 and 29, occupying the other CB spot. Carvajal at RB proves your point, it is hard to get young replacements here. Only one of Modric/Kroos seems to be starting in a game, and their replacements Camavinga/Valverde both get consistent game time. This has happened in every game. Tchouameni is the next gen. He starts. Vinicius is the next gen. He starts. Rodrygo is the next gen (when fit). He starts. Benzema proves your point. The replacements have not panned out. So roughly 3 players that prove this point, and you can maybe push for 4 (Benzema, Carvajal, Kroos, Modric: even though KC has only been started in one game this season) I think the replacement program is coming along nicely, on the contrary. I think there's a decent mix of the next gen and current gen players in the team.


>>Real Madrid always have their next generation on the bench, it rarely turns out that way. You can go back and read about the hype in 2017 with Theo being Marcelo's replacement, Dani Carvajal being the new midfield replacement, Llorente being Casemiro's replacement, and they all failed at Madrid This is not the same case as the current players though. Fede militao and vini are already starters in every game for a long time now ( bar being rested), tchoumeni will be a starter by default since there's no other cdm, only camavinga hasn't locked his own spot yet but his performances in the ucl last season were very encouraging.


Kroos, Modric, Casemiro (who’s just left) and Benzema are the spine of their team. It is not easy to replace such players and all are aging or have left. They have replacements but there’s no telling they’ll reach that bar


At one point Cristiano and Ramos were the two most important players and we eventually sold them and other players stepped up. That’s how it is. Vinicius and Courtois are currently as important as anyone else. Tchouameni has been superb so far and has shown to be capable of filling in for Casemiro (he’s also more complete)


That's still just 4 players. 4 players does not an aging team make. we aren't talking about the potential here, just what the age is on the team.


Bayern will win it this year & Mane will carry them if he doesn’t have any kind of injury.


Mané isn't carrying anything for us so far. It would be the combined force of our team that gets us there.


They lost their best player, I'd be surprised if the make the quarter finals.


The best player didn’t do anything last quarter finals. If the team is in form they are good enough to win without him


Nah theyll make qfs or semis atleast. Lewa didnt score much in big CL knockout games where the opponents were big clubs.


May be but it’s clear Mane is world class & he will get them to the finals at the very least. I could be wrong but I’m willing to die on the mane hill


I think the most important things would be to fix the errors in our defence because courtois has to bail us out a little too often. Also benzema absolutely needs to stay fit and on his level, hopefully vini explodes even more and rodrygo gets to his breakthrough year, then we're in for a fabulous year


Real Madrid is the best ever when it comes to winning games against better opponents


I agree with him. I'd prefer being an undercat, though. 🐱


It is actually a bit mental though. Going to go and check out the odds now this has been brought to my attention.


Real Madrid won 1 CL in the last 4 years and just had an insane run to win it and yet, some of you think they would 1st because of their "black magic"? Nevermind the fact that it's now how betting odds work, there are a few more talented teams out there. I wouldn't be put money on Madrid if there's a rematch against City and both teams are healthy.


Ah yes, Real Madrid, perpetual CL underdogs. Just let us win this year pls.


Even as a Barca fan you have to admit that despite defeating PSG, Chelsea and City all of whole were the top favourites for the competition, bookmakers making real fifth shows delusion of highest magnitude. They are solid in every area with an experienced manager. In CL experience and mentality wins you matches.


It’s fun to see the “data-driven” breakdown they do, but surely they should be accounting more for how past winners are far more likely to win it again, than a brand new winner. And especially for Real Madrid who has won most of the last ten! That’s data too!