T O P

Is modern dating/relationships all hookups/open relationships? I (37M) recently rejected a married colleague (32F) and I'm getting nothing but grief?

Is modern dating/relationships all hookups/open relationships? I (37M) recently rejected a married colleague (32F) and I'm getting nothing but grief?

QuitaQuites

People like to urge other people to do things they wouldn’t actually ever do. I guarantee if others were in your position they wouldn’t do it either. She also works with you which is messy by itself. Dude go by yourself and enjoy a nice relaxing evening at a hotel!


Naimodglin

Do you really think that? Is it so crazy to you that his friends would jump at the opportunity to sleep with someone who you KNOW isn’t looking for more. Op, it’s cool to not like hookups, but plenty of people do so it isn’t that surprising that a lot of your friends don’t feel the same way you do about this.


RoryJSK

I wouldn’t. Half of open relationships are implosions waiting to happen. Not saying all of them, but a lot are broken marriages looking for a last ditch fix—often with one partner less enthusiastic than the other about the open-ness of things. I want no part in ending anyone’s marriage. And considering these couples usually have rules against you talking to their significant other beforehand, I don’t think it’s worth the risk—if you can even guarantee the relationship is truly open.


LifeIsNeverSimple

Can attest that any semi healthy individual would not want to play a part in ruining a marriage. I regretably did so with a few married women when I was younger. When I grew up and got more empathetic I was hit by guilt and regret for causing some serious pain to other men. It has also made me terribly suspicious of housewives and a distain for cheaters. I wouldn't go near someone claiming to be in an open relationship either, no way to verify without talking to spouse. Plus who knows where her V or his D has been? As you said, not worth the many risks.


Dr_tuffednuts_MD

Only a fucking moron sleeps with married coworker. Don't shit where you eat. Regardless some lady trying to trade her pussy for a free vacation its not exactly a turn on.


[deleted]

I don't mind them not feeling the same way. I do mind them acting like I'm weird or giving me shit for my choice however.


Blahblahblah210

You’re definitely not weird.


QuitaQuites

I think the difference is we’re talking about a coworker, who other coworkers know is being this forward and so this impacts your livelihood as well. This isn’t just someone random that he’ll never see again or who he doesn’t have a professional connection with.


NoThankYouJohn87

Yeah, even if you were into casual sex, engaging in it with a married coworker just seems like asking for trouble, even if they are open. Reminded me of this Julie Nolke skit of a failed office threesome - https://youtu.be/MAfVxpIOWR4


Naimodglin

I’m not saying it’s a great idea, I’m simply saying that if you think it’s beyond reason that his friends would jump at this opportunity I think you greatly underestimate the horniness of some folks.


pittmancb

yeah but like the point still stands, they still might not do it on account of the awkward 'see u the next day at work' thing but still in the abstract give shit for him not vicariously getting down. you're point is correct, men(/people)are horny, but idk, you gotta admit, they're also totally full of shit too


QuitaQuites

I probably underestimate the stupidity, immaturity, naïveté of some folks, I’m sure!


Late_Addendum_8580

People who do like hookups are broken.


Naimodglin

I’m sure you’ll find compatriots who feel the same way on this site, but despite your prescriptive idea of what a good human being should and should not enjoy, plenty of fully functioning, upstanding adults engage in hookup culture when they aren’t at a point in their life where they can have a fulfilling and meaningful relationship. There’s nothing wrong with meeting someone just to hookup. IMO it’s just that the people who “teach others” how to “hook-up” have given the community of people who engage in hookups a bad wrap.


i-Ake

The older I get, the more I learn that the way most people talk to each other about sex in public is all a big show. I don't believe the majority of people when they talk about it and I don't really worry about what they think of my ways. You're not weird. You're normal. They just have to do their song and dance.


girl_in_red_costume

Yep, and hookups are overrated. Having sex with someone you know and are confortable with is so much better.


JackSpadeXIV

I honestly have a hard time being with someone if I'm not comfortable with them. It took me a couple of months to finally be intimate fully with my ex and she just never believed my reasoning. Idk, seemed I was the weird one out for the longest time


[deleted]

[удалено]


girl_in_red_costume

It feels so mechanic that I can't even clímax. After trying for a few times I just gave up, it's not for me.


girl_in_red_costume

Having sex in the first dates for me is also like this, I need time to feel confortable.


6ype

It seems like half the posts on this sub are about people whose partner lied about some aspect of their sex life to seem more interesting or people who want to start lying for the same reason.


bad_armenian_juju

I'm like this too. I think it's "normal" but not nearly as popular as it used to be sadly.


Jen5872

Your friends sound like a bunch of sophomoric frat boys who haven't grown up yet. I wouldn't go to them for relationship advice. Your coworker should have dropped it after you declined the first time. I guess you dented her ego a bit when she was rejected. Treat her professionally and hopefully she'll find someone else to have fun with and forget all about it.


Smol_Daddy

Wonder what else they've said that he's brushed off. Men who talk like that definitely have said worse.


[deleted]

It's funny you should say that. We were all tight many years ago before I settled down with my ex and I probably would have thought that was normal. Now I'm single and we've reconnected, there's so many things they say generally I roll my eyes at and find a bit juvenile. Idk, maybe we've all grown apart in that time.


DiogenesCynical

I wonder if the inverse of the 38F’s friend would ever fly. “Girl, he just wants you to let him give you a dicking, not marry him”


MindForeverWandering

>Your coworker should have dropped it after you declined the first time. It sounds to me like you dodged a bullet. Frankly, from other stories I've seen on here, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that, had you taken her on that "fun" weekend, you would have later found out that she lied about the "open" part of her marriage, and you would find yourself with a wronged husband wanting to smash your face in or worse. And, of course, if that had happened, everyone would have blamed you because *obviously* you just tempted her into cheating on her marriage. Consider yourself lucky you have your particular principles.


DeanVD

I think that is unlikely. If she seems so open about her open marriage even to a non-friend and random colleague, if it is not true it would come out pretty quickly. I think there are more people doing the open relationship thing than we think.


Conspirador

> a face like a smacked arse That phrase will never not be funny 🤣


[deleted]

British confirmed innit.


Conspirador

Standard mate.


feroesegraek

Why would you want to fuck up your whole mentally and self respect to fuck a married woman for half an hour a couple of times. Is that actually worth for some people? I say you did the right thing. Grab a close friend, get some cigars and whiskey. Shoot the shit.


OneChillinVillain

And what's with people acting like he is in the wrong for rejecting her? Like is he supposed to by default owe his body to any woman that throws their pussy at him for a free hotel weekend?


DiogenesCynical

> And what's with people acting like he is in the wrong for rejecting her? Always happens with guys. Heck the stereotypical response to rejecting someone is that you’re either a bastard for hurting her feelings, or you must be gay. You get it when a married guy says no too. Must either be a porn addict, cheating, have low testosterone, or mentally ill and needs counseling. “No means no” is for women, for men “no” means there’s something wrong with you, apparently.


OneChillinVillain

Exactly. Except it’s men that are toxic or patriarchy until we don’t live up to toxic or sexist expectations. Then we must be week or beta and it’s often women who hold these views. So is it toxic masculinity, toxic society, or toxic femininity? It’s all bullshit.


lacey_swiss

it's still toxic masculinity, women also encourage/enforce toxic masculinity, it doesn't just mean "men bad"


OneChillinVillain

Women encourage it and enforce it too! Then it’s not toxic masculinity. It’s just toxic social norms. Calling anything related to men coming from either men or women “toxic masculinity” just teaches young men to avoid or be ashamed of anything being male or masculine for fear of being toxic and causes issues with young men figuring themselves and their place out. Plenty of masculine traits or expression is healthy and great for society and family. I agree this was toxic. But it was kust toxic people being toxic. Women often put those expectations and pressure on men as well and calling it toxic masculinity is victim blaming. It’s blaming maleness even when it comes from a woman. Like regardless of the situation, men are to blame. That term needs to die.


lacey_swiss

it's toxic masculinity because it's encouraging toxic beliefs by equating it with masculinity, in this case, the idea that a real man loves sex and there must be something wrong with him if he ever turns out down. it's not victim blaming, it's just calling it toxic masculinity because it's directly tied in with cultural expectations of masculinity. it's not saying only men are to blame. people put like no effort into understanding what the term means and then get pissed based on their misunderstanding. if the message was that all masculinity is toxic there wouldn't be any reason to specify *toxic* masculinity. the point is just that some expectations of masculinity are toxic, not that everything men do is bad.


OneChillinVillain

OK. So there are toxic feminists too that hold toxic beliefs about femininity or women. Let's start calling out every other behavior by women as "oh just more toxic femininity. It's just everywhere" and see how that goes over. Let's constantly drill it into our children's heads especially young women. Femininity is just toxic. Oh sure, not all of it. But it's everywhere and women should be ashamed. ​ You are willfully ignoring the extent that the idea is being pushed on men. Probably because you are not one so do not care. Kind of indicative of toxic femininity. Stop being such a toxic woman please.


DiogenesCynical

It’s just people being assholes; those trying to label it have an agenda. Wasn’t there just a psychiatrist lecturing at Yale about how she fantasizes about killing white people? The name of the lecture was “The Psychopathic Problem of the White Mind”… The irony.


OneChillinVillain

Omg I saw some shot on that. And that is what is “right” or “righteous” now. And the irony and the fact that the mindset in that lecture is what is really the backwards fucked up mindset is completely lost on them while they cherry pick the random backwards fb post from some psycho as their example of how fucked up the right is, and completely ignore or fail to acknowledge that the most fucked up and extreme from the left is their mainstream at this point.


KarensSuck91

yep its sickening. and if they try to punch you for it you'll still be the one in trouble


pittmancb

yes. he must be preemptively indebted and thirsty af without any regard for self preservation or respectful control.


OneChillinVillain

Duh. He should know his only worth is child support or to dick a ho down. #toxicity # patriarchy


Mi_Pasta_Su_Pasta

People tend to assume everyone has the same standards and desires as them.


Cinderella35

I seriously hope not OP. Here is the thing, if people want to have open marriages or whatever that’s their choice. They expect and demand that others respect it. But when someone feels like you and I do, that relationships are sacred and shouldn’t have outsiders then we get ostracized. There is no respect. We are treated like we are judging them for their lifestyle choices when it’s really the opposite. Honestly OP your post gives me hope that monogamy isn’t lost. Good on you for standing your ground on what you want in life. Don’t let others make you feel like you’re in the wrong for that. You’re not.


imdemi

Your reply is totally spot on and I’m so thankful that monogamy isn’t lost. My (25F) fiancé (33M) wants an open relationship and tells me three months before our wedding (YES I am BEYOND grateful this was said before we were married) and now I’m dealing with him feeling like he’s being judged when it’s really the opposite. We’ve called off the wedding and so far it looks like we’ll be calling off our relationship regardless of how much we try to talk about it. The views just don’t match up and I’m not wrong to feel the way I do.


Cinderella35

I’m sorry to hear that your fiancé just dropped that bomb on you. I can’t understand making the vows to forsake all others all the while planning to not keep that promise. I’m glad though that you found out before it was too late.


imdemi

Thank you, yes something I figured he would’ve come to terms with before proposing…especially with him being with many partners prior to me but yes I’m so glad I found out now so that I could make the best decision


rainer_d

It‘s „just“ FOMO, in a rather extreme form. But kids these days get FOMO engrained in their brain - guess how that’ll turn out later in life?


X_SuperTerrorizer_X

> now I’m dealing with him feeling like he’s being judged You shouldn't be "dealing" with him at all at this point IMO


Wild_Durian_6428

Asked and answered poly and mon do not match. Move on already I am sorry she asked for permission to cheat on you


No-Reaction-9364

I think you did fine. Honestly even if she said her husband was fine with it that might not be true. Plus she was more interested in the hotel than you. It would have just been weird I am sure.


EquasLocklear

She shouldn't ask men out, either, if she is so unable to accept no for an answer. Not even a supermodel can be everybody's type, after all, even if men are still stereotyped as desperate for sex with anyone who is willing. Or she wanted the expensive holiday that badly.


gdddg

Especially men at work


HunnBunn23

Regardless of your stance on sleeping with a married person in an open marriage, it is also something else entirely to sleep with a co-worker. Let along go on a vacation you won from the job with them! It would be waaay too much talk around this whole trip, hardly discreet since she’s in an open marriage. Sounds suuuper messy lol I wouldn’t want to do that either. Your friends are tripping too. You made the right decision.


Conspirador

Lol your mates are a bunch of dogs. Take em out to the park next week, throw a ball and tell em to fetch.


rockpapersandwhich

Woof woof


SallyJane5555

I think you are wise. Especially because you work with her. And if it’s old fashioned to not want to get into someone else’s marriage.... then be old fashioned!


twotrees1

Sex is personal. It’s ok to want a genuine emotional connection and partnership, and there is no loss in life for not participating in things you don’t enjoy. I think a lot of people grapple with their sexuality (not always gender expression and preference, but also what actually brings them pleasure and joy vs what only fulfills a story in their head about missing out, or saving yourself for just one person). If she takes it personally, that’s on her. If she bugs you again, let her know it’s not personal, it has everything to do with your own mental health and sexual/relational preferences, and that any further conversation forced from you is very inappropriate, especially as a coworker (really it’s straight up sexual harassment).


AnimaLumen

If you don’t want casual sex that’s perfectly ok and there’s nothing wrong with you for that!!! Your friends are all a bunch of assholes for trying to make you feel some type of way about not wanting to have a cheap hookup with a married woman, open relationship or not. Maybe you don’t want to hook up with anyone ever, maybe you don’t want to hook up with anyone NOW as you’re still getting over your marriage ending. Either way you’re entitled to do whatever the fuck you want with your own genitals and if that means turning down some lady coworker that wantonly threw herself at you with no strings attached, then so be it. You owe no one an explanation and there are definitely people out there who still prefer regular monogamous committed relationships just like you do. Don’t settle just because everyone wants to convince you to fill the void with meaningless sex.


OneChillinVillain

Yeah. There is a lot more openness like that now days. However, that doesn't mean you owe your dick to anyone that offers under any circumstances. Especially given that you aren't into that, you have no previous relationship other than work with this co-worker, and the fact that she is your co-worker, and that you just don't owe anyone you body under any circumstances. ​ And really? In a professional setting, she is just gonna throw her pussy at you for a free hotel stay? Yeah. Fucking classy. ​ Oh. And dated an open married woman for a few weeks once. The whole thing was an absolute mess and she was psycho. Never again.


Playful-Mastodon-872

You’re not a weirdo. Thank you for being honest to yourself and not fall for the peer pressure. That is pretty honorable. Your friends are acting like they’re stuck in a fraternity. I wonder if they’re just talking smack or would do it. Even if they’re partnered up. Either way, possibly not the greatest influence one can have. Your colleague. Well, she was rejected so of course she’s upset. But she should’ve just taken the no and not push it. She was asking for it. Unfortunately, modern dating/relationships are just that. It’s tough to date these days. I hear it from my friends regularly. Many go into it when they’re not ready to be couples up. Many go into it with the wrong intentions. Many are just looking for attention. Chin up OP. You did what was best for you. Good job. :)


Youngadult26advice

I would have said no because it’s a work colleague. Find a girl and take her out on a date a few times then if she’s cool invite her on this retreat


poopja

Her proposal was sexual harassment and OP wouldn't be close to wrong to report her to HR for it. That was so fucking gross and so are his friends for acting like it's normal.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MindForeverWandering

Except it's pretty much 100% certain she'd reply "Don't be silly, I'm not looking to 'get involved' with you, just have some fun for a weekend with no strings attached."


Timely_Armadillo6514

Agree with the first half, not second half. OP said he’s not interested in dating rn. I would honestly go to the hotel on my own, order room service, read books, chill. If I get lonely I’d go home early and hang with friends, it’s free anyway.


PrivateEyeroll

You did the right thing. You turned down an offer you weren't comfortable with. End of story. Your coworker on the other hand just did something very inappropriate. Not because she's married (I'm assume what she told you about her relationship is the truth) but because propositioning someone you work with and pressuring them is an HR nightmare.


Cring-tastic

Some relationships are like that. I rarely see any like that though, and the few that I do see like that usually aren't very strong. Personally, I would be devastated if my partner was doing that, and I wouldn't be comfortable myself doing that with someone in a relationship (even if it is polyamorous/open).


What-attention-span

My niece just told me my oldest brother/her dad is(was?) polyamorous and I was like okay did not need to know that but the marriage he had where he was poly ended in a horrible and dramatic way. Which with that detail makes more sense now.


blueyedtoke

Do not shit where you eat. Sex with co-workers is never a good idea. Inter-office gossip is only the least of your worries. What if she's lying and her husband comes to work looking for your head? You did good turning her down. She's drama city waiting to happen.


IW2B

You have morals, that is something you should be proud of. Can you take a family member or friend? There’s no reason you have to take some random woman to hook up with. It’s sad how some people see the world but it’s just how it is. Personally I just remain single because dating always ends up being a painful experience at some point.


Maleficent_Ear_9024

I find the hookup and “casual dating” culture kinda disgusting tbh. Personally, I don’t understand how people have meaningless sex with someone. Different strokes for different folks I guess


imkimposs

That’s actually a bit horrifying. I really hope it’s not like that but suspicious that especially with current 20 & 30 year olds it’s highly prevalent (not sure if that fits your sitch). Hopefully you don’t resign yourself to this as normal and compromise your values. You’ll be better off when you are ready to find someone that you stayed true. Anyone can have meaningless sex and in the end it’s often worse than just going it alone.


SevsMumma21217

I'm a poly female. I have two partners. My male partner is not actively seeking other partners, my female partner is. That said, all of my personal friends are either in a mono relationship or single and seeking a mono relationship. People are starting to be more open and honest about poly relationships but I don't think that means that poly relationships are the majority. I think that your coworker is salty that you turned her down and that's her problem. But just in case she wants to make it your problem, keep away from her, as much as you can, and when you have to interact with her, do it where other people are and keep the conversation strictly worked based. Also keep copies of any emails and/or messages between the two of you. As for your mates, unless you've somehow managed to stumble into a group entirely made up of people with no morals and/or little intelligence, I can guarantee that 99% of them are blowing smoke up your ass. They would not have accepted her invitation. The reasons for their refusal may vary, but they would refuse. Take some time to heal. And then, when you're ready, put yourself out there and be open and honest about what you are looking for. You'll find someone who wants the same things you do.


KnowAKniceKnife

Your friends are jerks, and they're wrong. But more to the point: your co-worker is insane. Who basically asks a coworker they barely know to have sex with them? Is she trying to get fired? If your workplace has Human Resources dept., let them know what happened *pronto.* Don't let the scorned weirdo twist this story into something else.


Wide-eyed-Calico

Speaking as a polyamorous woman, what your colleague did was gross. It's bad taste to hook up with coworkers and you're well within your rights to nope out. Hookup culture unfortunately is a huge part of dating but nonmonogamy is not the norm. Most people still prefer committed monogamous relationships. Take your time with healing, get over your ex and don't let this bad experience sour new possibilities. Best of luck 😊


CptBloodyObvious

OP it’s wonderful to hear that the world still has sensible men like you. You did nothing wrong, and when you’re ready you will make someone a wonderful husband.


wolfgambrelli

Well the good thing is that she used text for this communication. Don't delete them. Future security for you.


[deleted]

Good point, yeah I will. Cheers.


Puppet007

Even if she says that she’s having an open marriage, you’re only hearing it from her. She could be trying to cheat for all you know. The way your friends reacted is concerning, open marriage or not that colleague is MARRIED! I understand that they were trying to cheer you up in their own messed up way but if you are not comfortable with something then they should respect that. Also, you can go on the trip by yourself or take a friend/family member with you instead. Doesn’t have to be someone you have to sleep with but when you’re there you can probably make new friends. I was never interested in casual dating/random hookups culture, but it sucks of how normalized it is (especially in the US).


Sypheara

You are in the better minority, the rest is honestly imho kinda disgusting. Kudos on you for not lowering the bar any further but having some sort of personal self respect and integrity. Utterly based dude.


Wild_Durian_6428

Dude don't let that trash into your life. I is a FU thing to do and did she ever say come on and ask my husband if it was alright. Sex without a connection is not for everybody


freya787

Honestly thank you for giving me hope that there are still good guys out there. I hope I’m lucky enough to meet someone like you one day


derogatori

First, I'd suggest r/datingoverthirty for you. It's a good sub. Secondly, I'm in my early 30's and got divorced in my late 20's. I did the hookup thing for a bit after my divorce and realized I hated it. From my experience, dating is what you make it. OLD (online dating) tends to yield more casual situationships, mostly bc users seem to be made up of either long time singles (who are often emotionally unavailable and/or need therapy) and people in transitional phases who aren't actually ready for something serious to develop (i.e. divorces, career changes, living with parents, etc.). I have met some good people on the apps, you just have to really be clear about your intentions/expectations and keep firm boundaries around what you want, which it sounds like you're already good at. Dating the old fashioned way is obviously far superior and generally is more fun. There seems to be less of a hookup expectation, too. Lastly, you should report what your coworker did to HR. She was sexually harassing you, and while it was "mild" I'd do it just to be sure it's on record. It sounds like she doesn't understand appropriate boundaries, and you're likely not the first person in the office she's solicited for something like this. She may even be harassing members of her own team. And if she's upset or embarrassed with you for turning her down she may attempt to retaliate in some way.


Typonomicon

Good on you for standing your ground. The people giving you hell for it are idiots. The term "toxic masculinity" always used to make me cringe, but I realize it's purpose now and that it affects men as well and this is a clear example. Everyone has their own set of standards, and those standards are gender-neutral. Don't let others push you into fulfilling an antiquated stereotype just so they can live vicariously through you.


[deleted]

Exactly. It's like just because I'm a man, I'm somehow always expected to be horny and jump at the chance of a bit of fanny. Worst thing is, my mates all know how stubborn I am and badgering me and trying to get me to change my mind when it's made up will get me doing the opposite in defiance.


What-attention-span

Toxic masculinity in your friends is what I’m hearing. Good for you for sticking to your morals/preferences! Your friends can’t even sympathize that a) not personally interested in sex with a married person and b) still trying to heal from divorce/breakup. Wtf


Expensive-Pen1112

>Toxic masculinity in your friends is what I’m hearing So, toxic masculinity is now a female trait. Learn something new every day.


floopysquid

I don't think toxic masculinity is a trait per say, but a belief that can result in certain actions. Any person can display toxic masculinity by shaming someone or putting down someone for not fitting into a "masculine" figure. I also don't think toxic masculinity is **only** seen in men, but instead **most commonly** shown by men, meaning women can also express toxic masculinity.


What-attention-span

Exactly


youhaveonehour

That's not what toxic masculinity is.


floopysquid

ok


What-attention-span

What? He said “the guys” were like “what’s wrong with you?” Etc etc for turning down sex with a married woman. so how am I referring to women being toxic here? When guys try to shame their friends into doing things they wouldn’t normally because “if you don’t want her you must be gay” or some other ridiculous line, like his friends were saying, it’s def toxic masculinity. Not sure what you mean though


Expensive-Pen1112

>and I also got (off a 38F friend) "Dude she just wants you to dick her down, not marry her." So, is this a woman displaying toxic masculinity or do you think the F stands for "French"?


What-attention-span

I missed that in the post, yes she is also being toxic. I misunderstood your first comment under mine, still don’t quite understand if you’re trying to be sarcastic or what since I can’t tell tone over the internet. He also mentioned his guy friends saying things like that so I was referring to them.


Expensive-Pen1112

>yes she is also being toxic But is it toxic masculinity that she's displaying here?


DiogenesCynical

Stop beating the dead horse my guy, it’s already dead. The sudden shift in wording in the part you quoted says it all.


DiogenesCynical

A 38 year old woman is a “guy”?


OneChillinVillain

Oh yeah? What do you call her about being all salty about getting rejected? Toxic femininity? And his female friend shamed him as well with "She just wants you to dick her down, not marry her".


What-attention-span

I would call the friend saying that is reinforcing toxic masculinity as well, she was acting as if the OP needs to “just be a man and do it” with the way she talked to OP. The coworker was super inappropriate and being mad about being rejected isn’t a gender trait lol many people react immaturely when they’re rejected.


OneChillinVillain

Yeah. I feel bad for OP and that whole situation. Marriage ends and now he has to manage drama thrust upon him by all of these people at once. I’d be like fuck it and give the prize to some uninvolved person in my life. People can suck.


What-attention-span

I’d also give away my friends if they were pressuring me to do something I was uncomfortable with


OneChillinVillain

Same.


[deleted]

Nothing toxic about it, it's just locker room talk. My god men need to have a space for caveman stupidity now and again.


What-attention-span

Sounds like he was not happy with how his friends reacted and got annoyed. Shaming your friend for not sleeping with a married woman because he doesn’t feel like it would be a good choice for him is def toxic


[deleted]

Guys in a crowd equals stupidity abound. But then again, THEN AGAIN I SAY The chaps rarely reflecting cultural information to call it toxic masculinity is slightly reductive I think. There is more going on there. It can even be a form if envy, "oh if I had that opportunity I wouldn't hesitate" , "you lucky sob". One Hope's it cavalier bravado and not ruthless hounding of a friend. But as you get older there are some folks not worth sharing that kind of information with, unless they are drunk no meaningful one on one conversation will occur, with empathy and contemplation. This is deeper than toxic masculinity, it is about how individuals relate to one and another in a very shallow and hedonistic culture. Masculinity has so many ways of presenting that this ideology that allows a definitive definition of "toxic masculinity" ...well it really bangs my nuts Anyway sorry for the soap box. Yeah, its bullshit OP has to deal with this. But hell hath no fury like a woman...


What-attention-span

No fury here, just feel bad his friends upset him and ignored the fact that he said he’s trying to heal right now and they hit him with a have sex and get over it bs when he went to them to talk about his frustrations. If you don’t want to call it toxic masculinity you can surely agree it’s toxic behavior. Sounds like his morals are much different and you can excuse their “stupidity” as you call it all you want and call it whatever you want but Shame and ignore pain = toxic to me.


[deleted]

I cant disagree with that.


mabear63

You do you, which is fine...it's your friends/colleagues that I worry about...has it really come to this? You have to get grief for having standards?


quahaug1945

You're entitled to your own standards and beliefs. I agree with you about monogamy and the hollowness of a one-night stand. Don't let the shallow and jaded culture that pervades your workplace shake you or misshape your character. Up their collective asses.


CrystalizedinCali

Your coworker is out of line! Who does that?! Your friends are also wrong. Enjoy a wonderful meal and little staycation yourself or with a good friend!


Baroness_Mayhem

You can turn down someone for whatever reason you want to. No one should ever pressure you. She was a prat and shouldn't have kept pushing her agenda when it was very obvious you weren't interested. Your friends are also prats. You're not a weirdo, at all.


morningHeron

I'm a polyamorous person and I just wanted to say that I feel this same worry too. I am interested in strong, committed romantic relationships. I don't care about casual things and sex isn't my priority. I worry that I'll be seen as too old-fashioned or uptight in the dating scene, even though I'm non-monogamous! Good for you for not agreeing to something you didn't want. Just take some time for yourself after the end of your relationship (I'm so sorry) and give thought to what you want when you're ready to date again. Be clear what you want, don't worry about what dating "is" or "isn't" and you'll find your person again.


Midiblye

It's all show honestly. If you had talked to any of them one on one I bet their reaction would be different (depending on your relationship with the individual). There's very much a machismo behind it. Personally to me your coworker was out for sex, but seemed kinda gold-digger-y to me. Like she wants a sugar daddy hook up almost. I would have turned her down too if I was in your spot, and I don't really have a problem with hook up culture. Modern dating is definitely more geared toward casual sex than actually looking for a partner imo. It has its perks but it does become incredibly exhausting.


AthenaWiseGoddess

Go to that hotel by yourself and enjoy yourself who says you need someone else to go with you


throwaway23er56uz

Sleeping with a married coworker is a good way to get fired. You made the right decision.


filifijonka

You behaved in a corteous, kind and considerate manner when you turned down your colleague. She, on the other hand, should really work on her attitude. For someone in an open relationship she seems really bad at communicating, boundaries and accepting refusals. Wtf? Honestly, even if you did want to spend some time with a woman in an open relationship, once you are over your rut and open to the world and possibilities again, I'd stay far away from this pushy creature who doesn't seem to respect when somebody tells her "no".


Escarlatilla

Um, no. I'm in an open relationship and even then I get to choose who I want to sleep with. EVEN if you were into that (which you're not) you don't have to have sex with everyone who wants to have sex with you?


Hey_Zeus_Of_Nazareth

That was a wildly inappropriate proposition for her to make to a colleague. Please distance yourself from her, she sounds like the type who might try to make things difficult for you if she feels scorned. As a matter of fact, I think you should consider notifying HR depending on the structure of your workplace and the function where this happened. Sounds like it was during work hours in which case, yeah... See above. Yes, it's more common these days, but honestly I think the boom in non monogamous relationships has more to do with us learning more about sex and sexuality and collectively wanting to test out these new ideas. I don't think it'll last forever. You do you and don't think about stuff like this until you're ready to get back out there, whatever that looks like for you.


Bakecrazy

Nothing wrong with you. Believe it or not not every man and women wants to be married. If you ask me open marriage is something that comes when you are not happy in your marriage. It's an emotional divorce. Marriage can not be open. Don't get married if you still want to have fun with every stranger you find attractive. Anyway...you have principles and I respect that. If I slept with anything that moves without considering anything else that just means I have no respect for myself.


sayitsooth

Sounds like your standards and personal choices are showing you who's who. Realistically you should be proud to have taken the stand you have, sex as a commodity that you must accumulate and the hedonistic lifestyle choices currently trending don't need to be your style. Kudos


KarensSuck91

no, only toxic people try to push it on others


Maleficent_Ad_4283

Everyone has their own preferences, so no, not all modern dating or relationships consist of hookups/open situations. Your friends and coworkers clearly don’t agree with your stance but they don’t have to. You are not interested in casual sex and you’re still healing from a recent break up. That’s all that matters. Your coworkers might be fussy about it because the way you expressed this to the person making a move on you might’ve been a bit impolite/came off as judgmental of her lifestyle.


[deleted]

>Your coworkers might be fussy about it because the way you expressed this to the person making a move on you might’ve been a bit impolite/came off as judgmental of her lifestyle. I only got a bit prickly because I felt like my no wasn't being respected and I was having to justify my answer. One thing I hate in life, is people trying to change my mind when it's made up.


What-attention-span

I think what you said was fine. She was salty because you rejected her and she wanted a free vacation and to bring someone who wasn’t interested into her open marriage. Not cool


reality_junkie_xo

Your no absolutely should have been respected, and after you said no she should have shut up. Unwanted sexual attention in the workplace is sexual harassment. Women can be guilty of it just as easily as men. As far as your friends, are they all in monogamous relationships? If so maybe they want to live vicariously through you. Regardless, they're being idiots. Ignore them.


rfj

We're not saying you're a horrible person for not being an infinitely smooth, infinitely calm soul who can give a perfectly polite and non-judgemental "no thanks" in the face of an unexpected offer. We're just saying they're also not horrible people for not being infinitely empathetic, infinitely understanding souls who can immediately know with perfect certainty that your "um, uh, WTF NO" (or whatever you actually said in the moment) is a reaction on your part and not a judgement on them. Or, to put it in the language of another sub, No Assholes Here, now everyone calm down and stop shouting at each other before you change that.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

It was only her from work who was being judgmental - all the people I was talking to on WhatsApp were non-work buddies. As far as I know, other people from work don't know she asked me. But agree, my refusal should have been enough anyway.


tercer78

This is not normal and the product of the environment you are surrounded. Most people don’t normalize infidelity. I’d question continuing your life with them in it.


[deleted]

Open relationships have become les stigmatized but I don't think they've become more common. There's more people who want monogamy out there than the dating apps make you think. And fwiw, a lot of the people who claim to be "poly and partnered" aren't real lookers at all. I bet a good chunk of the poly community are 5s and unders all settling for each other.


BetYourSalty

Agreed, but that goes across everything. Just like most people arent 10's, most poly people arent either. I will say being potentially poly would keep my abs longer lol


valley_of_baka

Reach out to the co-worker's husband and tell him.


Siren_of_Madness

Why?


PoisonOfKings

Can we trade places? I’m polyamorous and keep encountering monogamous women! I think finding compatibility in dating is hard in general. Just stick to your guns and don’t settle for something that doesn’t work with you. You’ll find someone.


CurryBoy420

The worst way to get over an ex is having sex with someone straight away haha I learnt that a few years ago


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[deleted]

>It sounds like maybe you're doing that? No not really. It's as simple as I'm monogamous myself, and even if I wasn't I don't want to have sex with her. No diss against her, she is attractive, I'm just not interested.


MelodramaticMouse

One bad apple don't Spoil the whole bunch, ~~girl~~ man Oh, give it one more try Before you give up on love :)


qwehujijofda

No, of course that's not what everything is. And I'm alarmed you think ONE relationship being that and your friends being surprised you didn't want to get your dick wet NOT IN A RELATIONSHIP is somehow reflective of ALL modern relationships.


No_Satisfaction3819

After my marriage went south and I dipped my toe in, I pulled it right out. I'd constantly get guys just wanting to hook up, sometimes girls, too and the abuse I'd get when I would turn them down (not from the girls, but the men), whoa! Threats, name calling, etc etc...I gave up. I'll just die alone and let my cat eat my dead body until my kids remember they have a mum they haven't heard from in a couple of weeks. Better than dealing with THAT! Edit: some wording


leperLlama

It's a fad, you just became single during the peak of it. Stick to your guns and don't get involved in unhealthy sexual relationships just so you can fit in with your friends and colleagues, that would be the dumbest thing you could do that doesn't involve jumping in front of traffic.


Dazzling-Disk-632

Don't put your noodle in company soup.I did it twice and didn't work out well either time..


h2f

I'm an older man who doesn't date or cheat on my wife but I meet a lot of younger women and almost all of them seem to want a stable monogamous relationship and often have trouble finding one. I have seen a couple of open relationships, one that seems to work (from the outside) and one that seems unhappy (also from a distance). I may be missing something because I try not to get personal but people talk about themselves.


[deleted]

Dude. Too funny. She feels judged. How dare you have a moral code?! HOW DARE YOU!


codymiller_cartoon

the sad thing is as time goes on, people dehumanize relationships and interactions all for the sake of personal gratification i think it's disgusting but if you say that, people will think you're old fashioned or trying to "shame others" - which is bullshit Affairs are encouraged and treated like no big deal when done to others (but hypocritically when they're one the wrong end of it , people get upset), open relationships are seemingly more common, etc. Idk, i don't get it. IMO, it feels so dehumanizing..........like guys are living dildos and women are living fleshlights. It's empty. Sad thing is if you can't find someone you genuinely love, loves you back, is interested in monogamy, is loyal, etc by the age of your late 20s........you're kinda out of luck.


JSO808

It is strange when you feel like youhave to justify not sleeping with a co-worker that is married. How many times has someone lied about being in an open marriage? They are likely to be open in a clueless one sided way. Does not mounting anything withna pulse now qualify you as being abnormal? Apathy and entitlement seems like an alarming path for people to travel down. We shall see Good luck


HuggyMonster69

Tbh your friends are probably bored and this could be exciting.


Alostgirl412

Omgawd wtf yes everyone is lost!!! Some many people are in open relationships it’s sad really I could never. I’m glad you went with your morals (which few people still have) and not to get involved with someone who is married. The way she was acting makes it seem like the person she married her was the one that wanted the open relationship and she said yes but hasn’t had anyone on her end. Aside from that you should definitely enjoy the getaway by yourself! Hope you have the time of your life 🌹


SINGHISKING211084

You need a better quality of friends OP, thats all I can advice you! You are friends with dude bros from the 90s who are intent on upholding the cliche about dude bros!


Cleantech2020

Isn't that sexual harassment? Do not sleep with someone at work, it doesn't end well.


DinoDaddy9

Dude 1. Well done on not going for it you don’t need gossip in the office and if something happened it could go wrong really really quickly (knew a guy who played the office game and got 3 of the sales admins pregnant and then left the company after they all found out) 2. I wouldn’t want to judge your friends however they sound very much like the “man up get over it” type which has its place in the world but I would find a different friend set for emotional crap or don’t put it in a group chat my friends are very different texting when there are multiple people getting it. Basically treat your coworkers like the stationery, you don’t want to get found out taking them home with you.


Thelawtman1986

Not sure about the poly thing, but the only person that I have ever met that hasn't had a one night stand is my wife, since I was her first ever bf. I personally don't need connection to have sex with a partner, but if you do,Don't give into pressure. Dating isn't the same as 10 years ago.


[deleted]

🤦🏻‍♂️


takatsukimike

I think you made a smart decision. Even if you like to play the field and have dozens of sexual partners each year, it's best not to play where you work. Now if you have that weekend to yourself and just happened to meet someone, that's a different story ;)


Badbitch-Energy

OMG I feel you. I'm not into hook up culture. People don't realise that soul ties exist, I wouldn't feel comfortable with just opening myself up- both physically and emotionally- to just anyone not appealing or safe. There is nothing wrong with you x :)


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[deleted]

You're not gonna get me to have sex with you with that attitude dude


notsuperoriginal

I'm good fam I had good vacation sex with the wife last weekend. ty for the offer. stop being a pussy your bros are right.


[deleted]

Good on you, hope you enjoyed your sex bro. 👍


notsuperoriginal

I did dont worry. hope you find the validation from strangers on the internet youre seeking over your friends advice.


[deleted]

Who knows how it'll go. Anyway I'd love to keep chatting to such a lovely, non-passive-aggressive person but I need to go to bed now. Stay classy bro! 👍😘


BetYourSalty

Hey OP Fuck that guy hes an asshole and your responses had me giggling like a school girl huffing a balloon


notsuperoriginal

I didn't mean to come off as passive aggressive just giving you my opinion, that I agree with your friends, which you solicited on the internet. have a great day!


CrimbleCrumbler

Imagine being this much of an asshole for no good reason


[deleted]

Hello bambinos.


Goggings

Yeah, you would get really roasted by allot of homophobic slurs in oir boys group chat. But we sti young, so turning down sex is like winning a million dollars and giving it away to a terrorist organisation.


[deleted]

>turning down sex is like winning a million dollars and giving it away to a terrorist organisation. bruh how desperate are you


Cookyy2k

Well generally it's the people who've never had sex who put so much stock on its intrinsic value. As if meaningless dead eyed sawing away until one of you feels something is somehow the height of targets to achieve.


Goggings

Not desperate, have you ever turned down sex by a sexy girl when you were under the age of 25?


[deleted]

Yes. I have some self respect.


Ok-Air3066

Yeah it's pretty lame


Maleficent_Chapter17

well if you're trying to get over your ex, it would much better to have the office flooze working over your nether regions at a luxury resort rather than sitting at home alone moping about your ex. Text her **now**, "Enough waffling, I'm in."


AGhta5

You shouldve though dude ngl


kendricklamatt

Don't get me wrong, not trying to push you to do it... But are you sure there isn't a little interest on your end? You say you've never ever been into hook ups, you just got out of a long relationship and don't want to date... Why not try something new? That said, you know your own boundaries and work with the gal. Can't say I would do it because what if I decide im not into it while on the trip? What if it changes the work place dynamic? But just from reading your post.. no interest at all?


[deleted]

Nope, none. I did try it in my early 20s and just didn't enjoy it. I'm not cut out for sex without a connection to the person. Plus, I don't have sex with people who are married or in a relationship with anyone else.


BetYourSalty

You are actually far outside the norm for most men or all of my guy friends are lying to me. If she was hot, i was single, and she didnt work with me i would of done it myself. Thats not a good or bad thing and i believe that most women would love the story you just told and also slightly not believe you. Your old fashioned and just because everyone else is trying to rush into bed doesnt mean that you have to be. Congrats on being an overall swell chap who most women would give up a kidney for.


womandatory

Firstly, you’re freshly out of a LTR, so it’s very smart of you to just give yourself time. Rushing into anything, even a ONS is a bad idea and will likely leave someone hurt. Second, she’s your colleague. She’s obviously never heard the saying ‘don’t shit in your nest’. You said a firm no. Everything that happened after was sexual harassment. Make sure she knows that. Consider letting a supervisor know that too, even if you don’t want to get her in trouble, she could turn this around on you. Third, you need better friends. Take all the time you need to heal/recover/get yourself back on track. The biggest problem with modern dating is all the busted-ass people who try to recover from failed relationships by fucking up another person/relationship. Then that person goes and does it to a half dozen more people. Soon, the entire dating pool is poisoned with damaged, undateable people and the few, rare, balanced and genuine seekers out there get tangled up in all that diabolical shit. There really are good people out there who took time out and worked on themselves, figured out what went wrong and invested to fix their contribution to the demise of their last partnership. They are happy alone, but seeking someone to share in their happiness, not fix their brokenness or help them unpack their trauma. Wait for one of them. You’ve got the right idea. It seems to me through long term observation that the vast majority of open/poly/kinksters are the most broken of the lot. They are trauma-bonded. They learned about sex from porn and entirely missed the stuff about intimacy and love, so they get easily bored and require bigger and bigger dopamine hits to stay engaged in any relationship. You’re right to avoid them like the (plague) STDs they love to share. One other thing, don’t get sucked into watching porn to get off. Use your imagination, or you’ll get trapped in the need for *bigger, better, more*. When you do meet another woman you want to be with, using porn to any degree in the meantime will get in the way of you creating a meaningful connection with her. A lot of women hate porn, including the actors who make it and the [cool girls](https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com/amp/Gillian-flynn-gone-girl-cool-girl-monologue-book-annotated) who say they love watching it, and will ignore their own wants, needs and boundaries just so they get picked by a guy who treats them like garbage. If you’re looking for a genuine connection, follow your instinct. Take the time, do the work. Then when you’re ready to date, set your boundaries and don’t get pressured into some sleazy transaction because your friend group (who probably don’t get any action because they think sex is 2 minutes of jackhammering and who cares if she doesn’t cum?) think you should lower your standards, or because a colleague who wants to set you up for a workplace harassment claim feels entitled to your dick because you’re a single guy and she’s not completely unattractive (despite being married and your co-worker). You’re on the right path. Stay there. Plenty of women are looking for a committed, exclusive relationship with a man like you. Hold out for that. Keep your dignity (and STD panel) intact.


[deleted]

>One other thing, don’t get sucked into watching porn to get off. Use your imagination, or you’ll get trapped in the need for bigger, better, more. When you do meet another woman you want to be with, using porn to any degree in the meantime will get in the way of you creating a meaningful connection with her. A lot of women hate porn, including the actors who make it and the cool girls who say they love watching it, and will ignore their own wants, needs and boundaries just so they get picked by a guy who treats them like garbage. With that, I didn't mean I watch porn to get me off rather if I really wanted to have the feeling of an orgasm that badly and see a naked boob/va jay jay, I could just watch it instead. Not that I'm an avid viewer or anything just that I could watch it. I personally prefer the nsfw subreddits and erotica to mainstream porn.


womandatory

Fair enough, but a lot of the content posted to Reddit isn’t consensual. Someone might be ok with having a photo taken or a video made, but have no idea it’s being shared. It’s not only about the industry, it’s about how it changes your physiology. Your brain literally atrophies over time (it doesn’t care what your source is), it can lower empathy, create unrealistic expectations, inhibit intimacy and cause erectile dysfunction. Women who don’t like tube sites often find use of social media sources including Reddit worse, because of the issues with non consent and the ease of connecting with content creators/uploaders. Most women who object to porn at least know porn stars aren’t going to be in their SO’s DMs, but on Reddit, Insta, Snap etc, women are messaging back in the hopes of building a following for their cam/OF sites and many a gullible man has fallen into the trap of believing these women are DFT them if not for distance or some other imagined obstacle. Women who actually create content are only after one hard thing of yours - cash. Everything else is either created by men sharing non consensually or a very, very small minority of crazy exhibitionists. I would never have a relationship with a man who casually surfed Reddit porn, Insta girls, cam or any other kind of thirst/objectification. It’s not jealousy or insecurity - my personal view based on experience is that men who regularly consume porn have poor self control, lack motivation and are terrible in bed. They’re often quite insecure themselves. That’s just not my bag. My guy is enough for me, but if I’m ever not enough for him I am out of there, no regrets or looking back. I’m old enough now I don’t feel social pressure to put up with that level of disrespect in a relationship, and I’ve been single for plenty long enough stretches to know I am perfectly fine without a man. My current partner knows this. I have a kid and am beyond wanting more, so I don’t need or want a babydaddy. I have a solid career, my own home and car and enough to indulge mine and my kid’s hobbies and interests. Not all men watch porn. The men with resolve, with self respect, discipline and control, they’re infinitely better in bed. Source - am dating one now.


[deleted]

It's not some massive thing though that I always check out constantly bear in mind. It's once in a blue moon, not even once a month at this point, And never in a relationship when I'm enjoying the real thing. Personally I really only like couples stuff and/or pegging vids anyway with real people. Especially when they have real bodies - stretch marks, bellies, bit of grey hair etc.