T O P

Is god more evil than the devil in christianity?

Is god more evil than the devil in christianity?

3MrBojangles3

I don't get why people think that this life we live is going to determine the outcome for the rest of eternity. Think how long is a life say 80 years here on earth compared to forever. It's not even a blip in comparison. I don't believe in the devil or hell. I think if anything you could consider this life on earth "hell". We are too easily manipulated, we are weak and fragile. It isn't doesn't make sense that we would have the odds stacked up against us this much to choose our fate. Especially with no solid proof that any of it is even real... I think we are here to learn lessons, and get experience, and evolve our "soul" or "spirit" or whatever you want to call it. If we choose to live life as a bad person we only are cheating ourselves and wasting this experience. God loves all of us and wouldnt torment or let us rot in hell. He wants us all to be better and become more wise. He doesn't always intervene and alter our plan too much as that could hinder our experience. What happens in this world is because of us humans.... I honestly believe that before we were born we planned out our life and and the situations we find ourselves in. And free will is how we learn. And we have some sort of guide that helps us stay on our path. A guardian angel you could say. Why do we have psychics, or deja-vu, or those times where you you say something and it appears on tv after, or when you and someone else think of the same weird thing at the same time. It's not a coincidence. I dunno thats just my belief. I would never necessarily say someone else is wrong because nobody knows 100% either way.


wrxguy17

nicely said here you go.🏅🏆🎖🥇


3MrBojangles3

Appreciate it thank you


GodLeeSwager

I was thought that those dejavus are our memory failing, so you remember modificated pasts, although I need to research on that. As you say, life on earth might just be hell, I don't believe in nothing without proof, but if that's true, hell isn't that bad after all, good moments and bad moments. You just got to learn the way of your happiness, I'm not saying to let everything go( work and stuff) and expect to be happy, well for some people that's great, for others that's not enough, it depends on their life experiences and their way of happiness. You gotta appreciate everything, not by saying thank you but by taking every opportunity to smile, chase something, or do whatever you want. If you feel like not taking an opportunity, that's ok, but do the right thing at the right time and that will help. Shit I like how I just went from christianism to life lessons. Don't take my opinion for granted, research.


3MrBojangles3

I completely agree, very well said. Life is a complex weird thing. A lot of things definitely get taken for granted. But then there are also so many variables to everything. It's what makes like interesting and beautiful but fucked up at the same time lol


3MrBojangles3

But it does take a conscious effort to choose to see the positive instead of the negative. It takes more effort


GodLeeSwager

Everything is rightly said, you got to have people to support you and help you see that side


3MrBojangles3

You have to believe it. It took me a long time and a lot of BS to actually understand what exactly it means to appreciate the small things in life. And what is really important in life. It's definitely no material things. They can act as a band aid, a temporary feel good. But that's nothing compared to having a genuine connection with genuine people, loving, caring, appreciating, uplifting, just being a real person. Being yourself and that being good enough is a great feeling. Life is about love and helping each other become better.


justme24601

Came here to say something similar. Even if god was real hes an jerk. 80 years in comparison to "eternity" is statistically insignificant (meaning literally so small in comparison that its just considered nothing or 0) but some higher powers gonna look at these 80 years and then decide whether or not hes gonna send you to hell to be tortured forever based on things you did in an insignificant time period? Yeah but hes sooooo benevolent and forgiving. Bunch of hypocrites the lot. Idk about in the afterlife but here on this earth wed call anyone with that kind of behavior a jackass. Satans just a scare tactic. Gods just an asshole.


SerMonkeys

He's more asking from a story standpoint not a religious one.


3MrBojangles3

Isn't that basically the same thing? The bible and those stories are what the religion is made from. I guess that was my way of questioning it as well. I just went the other way with it. I haven't been "religious" since I was a lot younger. I have my own beliefs from my own life experiences and it made me want to express it


SerMonkeys

Not entirely. There's a lot of historical stuff there that influences the religion. And the people who practice it properly as opposed to what you'll see in modern media don't believe in the stories that can't be corroborated as much as they believe in everything else around it. Like as a story. Just a story and not a religion it's almost a completely different matter because organized religion has gone a complete other way with it all than what, within the actual Bible itself, says Christianity should be. Edit: tl;Dr is it's a complicated mess nobody really understands but from a story perspective the devil is just a dick for the sake of it.


3MrBojangles3

Yeah I get what you're saying. When it comes down to it my core belief is that it doesnt matter what you believe or what you worship as long as it helps you and makes you a better person. Worship birds I don't care. If it brings you happiness and in turn brings positivity I'm all for it. I think when it comes to religion I always like to put my 2 cents in because growing up I was forced to follow something and a bit excessively. And seeing negativity in some people while they dedicate that much time turned me off to it. I wanted nothing to do with it. But what stuck with me was a belief of a higher power.... I've also come to realize that I really enjoy playing the devil's advocate and testing ones stance on anything really. My ex really hated it because it comes off as me being opposed to even if that's not the case. But it's how I've always been, I can see both sides. And I think thats how things improve and get better. Questioning and giving thought to all sides. I know I'm rambling a little now though so I'll shut up lol


SerMonkeys

And that's generally how the actual Bible is written. Like most people focus on Genesis when talking about why Christianity is bad or stuff that was said by an apostle that was later amended within the same book. Like no, homsexuality isn't a sin, no you shouldn't stone your mother in law to death, you can get a haircut and tattoos, and eat ffs. But that's not what the story says and generally speaking most Christians just don't read the fucking thing. Cause it's hard to read lol. It's like that joke about Bible being an acronym for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Like yeah. Duh. Ain't nowhere does it say to be an uppity shitbird about everything. Just mostly says don't be a dick and if you are someone will probably be a dick back.


3MrBojangles3

What I don't like about the bible is, and it's really just the fanatical, judgmental people, that they don't take it as a whole and follow everything in it. People that like to pick and choose what to agree with and then tell others they are wrong bother me. There is some weird absurd things in the bible though. I'm just not sure how fitting it is for todays society. Look how much humanity has changed and evolved. It's hard to even relate to some of it or take some of it serious. I see that as a problem


SerMonkeys

There are chapters in the Bible that talk about nobody should follow every little thing in it. Like Jesus eating on the Sabbath. Paraphrasing but he basically told the cops "Dude... I'm hungry." Sorry. But like I said in my previous comment to the other thing you said is I agree. The issue is when people twist it rather than going "Oh so it's like the constitution sorta. Not everything in it is correct and amendments are made and Oh look the Bible even says not to follow along like some indoctrinated sheep!" I'm rereading it. I've been reading a bunch of old-school novels. Like Treasure Island and Lord of The Flies just to like test my palat in between 40k novels and the King James version is one of the older ones I'm reading.


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I guess you were a good bot. Tf?


3MrBojangles3

If you know the right thing to do but dont do it it's a sin. We can skip the outdated, weird ones, but I'm sure we can agree that premarital sex is not an outdated one. I'm 34 years old and don't know a single Christian that followed/follows that. it's a pretty big one too. So that shows that a lot of christians are at least willing to pick and choose to fit their own narrative. The only time you should disobey any law is if it is morally wrong. And I don't thing it necessarily helped your argument by comparing it to the constitution and saying not everything in it is correct. So what about in few thousand years when less of it is correct then again until none is correct, what's gonna happen then? Also you are twisting it yourself as you say people are twisting it.


SerMonkeys

Dude. The thing is murder will always be wrong. And just because homosexuality was illegal because so many people misinterpreted it as a sin because of the line "For a man to lie with another man is an abomination" and then having that amended later on within the book that doesn't mean that's gonna change further on when society inevitably changes. And I'm not. I'll go grab passages if you like.


3MrBojangles3

I would say that it's a sin more so because it would be considered more along the lines as lust because obviously they can't reproduce


SerMonkeys

Edit: Anyone seeing this keep in mind this is part of larger debate with the original topic being whether or not God was more evil than the Devil in the Bible. I'm attempting to explain the story not bash anyone's lifestyle and only really criticizing misinformation. But lust is so difficult to define and isn't necessarily prohibited wholly within the Bible. That's one of things I'm talking about man. A preacher, who may be crooked or just not understand what he's just read based on the translation issue, will all to often go to Leviticus 20:13 with the line "if a man lieth with another man as he layeth with a woman then have both committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death and their blood shall be upon them" as a defense for gay bashing but then don't talk about the book or the rest of the chapter either. Here. I'm not there yet in my personal reading but I'll jump ahead and post a link to the pages. https://imgur.com/gallery/00qo4XP Edit: Layman's terms God basically just goes "Hey don't fuck animals or your brother's wife or wizard shit. And don't have sex with men cause that yucky and if you do I'll make you go over there so I won't have to see it" That's in the Old Testament when God would walk as a normal dude. So that description is harsh right? But if you really break it down, which is not as hard as people make it out to be, everything he's saying is a warning. He doesn't call homosexuality a sin. He calls it an abomination and that all those acts are abhorrent. Abhorrent literally means something that inspires disgust and loathing and loathing meaning a feeling of dislike. But that's not a sin. Sin being defined as an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law, which is also very difficult to define because of so many opinions thrown about by God and the Apostles and then later God decrees that Jesus is his word but Jesus contradicts God and so on and so forth. Like you see what I mean right? It's not as cut and dry as so many misinformed people make it out to be. It's a book written and rewritten for hundreds of years based on a language nobody really understands and so interpretations are always getting messed up and misconstrued and because so many people refuse to just read the fucking book ignorance reigns.


SerMonkeys

I'll definitely have to go back and clarify and reread everything you said. However I am on your side with what you're saying. All I'm trying to say, and poorly at that, is there is a few passages really early on that people focus in but don't provide any context and that's where churches like Westboro get started and go apeshit. Sorry. I know I'm not as eloquent as I want to be and my point is getting lost in translation.


Mrs_Schwalls

OP - if you actually want real answers to this, I suggest another subreddit. The default on reddit is often "God is unreal/fake/awful/etc...", but if you want actual thoughtful scholarly answers to this, I suggest r/DebateAChristian or r/DebateACatholic to see Christian viewpoints on this.


all-names-are-taken4

Good idea, I’m gonna do that now. Thanks for the advice


theretoo_

Yeah!! Imagine sending someone to be tortured eternally in hell because they didn't believe in you.


OmgThatDream

Specially since he didn't send enough proves


let-me-die1991

Wanna hear a worse one? Anyone who isn’t baptized goes to hell, even babies. So, if any of this is to be believed, hell is FULL of screaming, damned babies because no one dipped them in holy water.


exoticsublimialsx0x

I always thought this


Plisken999

Guys... Are you trying to have a logical debate with religious? It is not happening. Faith, by definition, is blindly believing. Which is the exact opposite of critical thinking. It is like trying to understand a psychopathic serial killer. There's nothing logical... Only strawman arguments and poor interpretation.


all-names-are-taken4

Yeah but i assume a fair amount of reddit is atheist so hopefully it wont be overly biased


let-me-die1991

The bible told from a different perspective is a wild ride. Personally, I see it as all stories, but going off those stories I would have to say yes, god in the bible is far more “evil” than the devil. The devil is always trying to set people free, including Jesus, whereas God is always trying to make people subservient. The most the devil ever does is wage a war against heaven, subjectively for this reason. I grew up very Roman Catholic. The bible is burned into my memory. I don’t get how anyone can read that book and see god as loving. Jesus was a hippie with some great ideas, daddy had some anger issues.


mayoissandwichpus

There is no hell. People die when they die. “To dust you will return” was indicating reversion back to being sulfur and carbon, not to burning. “Hell” where people burn was an invention of the Catholic Church because fear works. God doesn’t burn his kids. It’s not in the Bible. References to it are obviously very figurative.


Complete_Gazelle4363

Yeah but he’s still considered evil because of the genocides he committed


Insufficient-Energy

Morally speaking as society understands God is more evil. Hes the one who sends people to hell for not following the rules that he decided to make, he could forgive everyone but doesn't. He made the living world a terrible place where it is easy to sin and then send people to hell when they do. He could also solve world hunger and endless suffering but chooses but to. Why does he sit back and watch innocent children be raped, he's either evil or not real


YTRoseRocket

Do people REALLY think the Devil is "chill" in this? God isn't the one who did all the corupt shit it was Satan why else would the devil be apart of the Bible if that wasn't the case? The Devil turned Earth into hell. In the garden of Eden the Devil was there convincing Eve to disobey God. God doesn't even sit back in the Bible he gave rules to make sure you didn't slaughter, rape or destroy things. And since they didn't obey the easy ol' "don't rape your children and don't murder your pregnant wife thx lol" he sent them to their death as punishment. However, people who didn't know about God back then actually didn't go to hell. Once Jesus (Yeshua) got there he died for their sins to make sure they had a chance to go to heaven even if they sinned. Because repenting saves them. But of course people have to understand the system of how it works. God will know if you're being truthful or not if you "repented" you'd have to be truthful on the repent to be accepted. Anyway the evil society may think God was evil but you aren't evil are you? Anyway that's my take on the Bible if you read it yourself you wouldn't spread misinformation though.


dekoir

Couldn’t have said it any better 👏🏻


StickyBlackMess69420

I agree. If God is real he's a cruel, vile being who should be feared, not worshipped. Otherwise he's just not real.


clockworknait

Yea it's so evil that God didn't just forgive hitler lol


danieelryn

you know what he’s trying to say


clockworknait

Yea it seems hes trying to say that God sits back and watches innocent people and children get raped and murdered and that God should forgive the rapists and murderers 😂


ardasmodeus

These are not the only sins for which you go to hell in christianity, though. Actually, not to rape isn’t even in the Ten Commandments, while not saying the god’s name in vain is. Which makes me believe that he is a narcissistic, insecure asshole that does not care about rape as much as saying his name in vain.


clockworknait

Orrrr that some asshole humans wrote the rules instead and left rape out because they loved raping people. Humans just love to blame a higher power for everything wrong in the world. Not a God or a devil are making humans evil, some humans are just p.o.s evil bastards because they get something out of it or try to get something out of it.


CashJunior

If humans made the rules up then why do Christians still follow them? That means you wont even know if you are going to hell or not. And who else is to blame? Eachother? We didnt make eachother the so called god did so it's not our fault unless god isnt real.


oxytocinparadise

You're reaching....


clockworknait

"He could forgive everyone but doesn't" "Why does he just sit back and watch innocent children be raped" "He could forgive everyone but doesn't" "Why does he just sit back and watch innocent children be raped" That wasn't reaching at all. Angry that God doesn't do anything about evil humans but everyone should be forgiven.


oxytocinparadise

Ok, have a good day. I dont argue on the Internet!


clockworknait

You already did lol


danieelryn

he wants the rapes and murders not to happen at all. if god is omnipotent but refuses to do this, he’s just an evil twat who doesn’t deserve to be worshipped. if he can’t, then he’s not omnipotent.


Neoxcobra

Because he gave free will


Hero_of_Parnast

The fact that he knows exactly what every single person would do in any possible or impossible circumstance shows that an all-knowing god's existence would make free will impossible. That, or he isn't all-knowing.


CashJunior

It would be still be freewill. Just because you know what the possibilities are doesnt mean you make the choice. But still why would he create a forbidden fruit and just stick it in a place where he dont want people to go? Or why even make it in the first place?


siryabadaba

Actually, there are a few different options for what God could be. He could either, Be evil Not be real Or, he could be crazy.


Tim_bom_bom

Nobody "chills" in hell. Hell was literally created as punishment for satan. God is not evil


A-Fishy-Vagina

The Christian God is literally a narcissist who dooms mankind over and kills them in genocide just because he feels like it. If that's not evil than what is.


Complete_Gazelle4363

People need to read the Bible for what it is rather than only believe all the nitpicked good deeds of the god they were given to when they had no way of critical analysis. The Old Testament time and time shows the monster Yahweh is


MinecraftAxolotl

If you actually read the bible you'd see he had good reasons.


A-Fishy-Vagina

Ah yes, such a shame this logic doesn't apply to real life murderers or otherwise they would walk free. Because they had "good reasons" too from their perspective, lol.


BleachDrinkAndBook

Ah yes because "town of people literally murdering each other" deserved the mercy he showed by giving them the opportunity to change. God punishes people for breaking the rules that he explicitly lays out, which aren't even difficult to follow. The rules he lays out can be summed up as "be nice to each other, and respect me also" and the one with more severe punishments tend to be the be nice half. Fucking read.


all-names-are-taken4

But its god who sends them there


Tim_bom_bom

You send yourself there based on the choices you make


Complete_Gazelle4363

No it’s based on whether you believe, which is completely wrong since millions of people are born into other religions, why would that be a crime? Even if it is choices then what is the cut off point for which you wouldn’t be considered for he’ll anymore since goodness would be a spectrum. It wouldn’t be fair if two people of basically equal goodness ended up going separate ways.


MinecraftAxolotl

That is the gosple of works, not faith. read the Bible


timelighter

What if you're sorry? And you want to learn to be better? You're still stuck in hell for *eternity?* Divide an eternity by a human lifetime and it doesn't seem quite fair.


Tim_bom_bom

If you're already in hell theres nothing you can really do. That's what our lives on earth are for: picking between living earthly sinful lives and disregarding the consequences (but recieving the consequences when you die), or living the path God set for you and sacrificing some pleasures on earth. If you want to learn to be better, I would recommend starting sooner rather than later. God gives infinite chances to the worst of people, but he knows when people are truly repentant, or if they are just saying they believe to use God as a means to escape hell


timelighter

sounds like a very illogical system


Complete_Gazelle4363

It might make sense if only rapists and murderers and the such went to hell but even they can make it to heaven if at the last minute they repent yet good people will be condemned to hell if they don’t believe. There’s nothing moral in that system and there is no logic it’s just so that those that believe can expand their religion to others who have guilt but don’t want to face real consequences


Tim_bom_bom

How so?


timelighter

Infinite chances is gibberish if you're talking about a limited lifespan with discrete blocks of time in which to make decisions.


Tim_bom_bom

By "infinite chances" I mean that the door is open so long as you live. If you dont take the initiative within 80+ years, that's on you


timelighter

So I shouldn't take anything you say literally?


the_onlyfox

but god gave rules to not break. as humans we have free choice and just because you dont like what i am doing doesnt make me evil. like we cant eat seafood (well shellfish) but why is that? we cant eat pork? why? we cant have certain clothes? why? why are things so simple to us now so wrong in the eyes of a God who doesnt even talk to us anymore? like murdering, rape ect ect all make sense as to why you get sent to hell but other things??? WHY????? it just baffles me


Alakandor

I don't think that if you stole something for example, you would go to hell, I don't think God is that unforgiving. Regardless of what the Bible says, I believe people are capable of change, and perhaps God has changed somehow, maybe to the point he doesn't care for anything and will not come back ever again, although I choose to believe otherwise


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Alakandor

No, shut up


OmgThatDream

Hahahaha the frustration is real i feel you mate


YTRoseRocket

Nah the bad choices send them there.


Gloomy_Ad_4371

All this biblical shit is just pure baffoonery IMO there's 2 possible outcomes when we die: 1: bleak abismal nothing 2: concousness displacement causes our councousness to roam the earth freely therefore giving accidental life after death somehow. could possibly be limited to the location of death or even more rarely attached to objects but also could be inhindered, unsure. Working theory's but still make more sense then some dude in the sky got bored and made people out of clay.... And that our current lives dictate wether we burn or get royal treatment in the most lucrative sence ever.


tylery21

Yup. 100%


SeedofEvil5217

Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly say or infer that the serpent was the devil. We know that the serpent was not the devil because God punishes the serpent by forcing it to crawl along its belly for the rest of its days. This is what snakes do. At no point is the devil crawling around on his belly anywhere in the Bible


IrishFlukey

People expect a perfect world and blame God for not having it. This is not Heaven or Hell. It has elements of both. God did create a perfect world. It is called Heaven.


BleachDrinkAndBook

God created a perfect world in Earth originally, but when Adam and Eve sinned God's punishment was to introduce death, pain and the other imperfections of the world.


OmgThatDream

God is not EVIL god is FICTIONAL. Now if you're talking about the fictional god yeah he is more evil than the devil for a simple reason, he is supposed to know everything including all the possible futures and even having this super knowledge he chose the path that has almost everyone suffering the path that has war, rape, hell and satan eventho satan being bad is debateable because seriously why the hell is satan responsible for the way god created him. But yeah it's a human-made story it has flaws it's normal.


MinecraftAxolotl

He was correcting his people, AKA the world, not killing them for no reason. You see, he was trying to get people back on the right track and doing what's right, and to do that they needed to be punished. It was basically when a kid disobeys his/her parent(s), they get punished. Also, the only way to make it so people could be with him after death was to have someone perfect, a thing that no human could do, take their place in death.


Complete_Gazelle4363

How is wiping out the entire human population except for a family a form of punishment? What learning takes place there? What second chance? What opportunity to actually grow? And in an individual person perspective, how would killing be correcting? That’s the one way in which you take away the ability to learn, even torture could be considered better because there’s a chance to take that lesson and apply it to their life. The only reason why Yahweh, a good merciful god, would kill is if he was incapable of resorting to the plethora of better options because he’s not omnipotent, not good, or ,most likely, not real.


BleachDrinkAndBook

According to the Bible, the world had become corrupt to the point that the people alive wouldn't change of their own free will, no matter what. God gave humanity the ability to think and act for ourselves, even if that goes against what he wants, and between Adam and Noah, humanity had gotten so far off from righteousness that the best solution was to hit the reset button. If God took away humanity's free will, that would be evil, and considering that God also knows literally *everything* he would know whether or not the people would've changed if given a chance.


Complete_Gazelle4363

If he knew and could do everything and was good then he could have set certain things in place that would ensure they wouldn’t have reached such a point of evil but instead he waited knowing, as you stated, that they would become past redemption and then killed them all. I don’t see why Yahweh couldn’t have just brought in the Ten Commandments earlier or just, you know, do literally anything more good than genocide. And if he really wanted people to have free will then why kill them all? What free will is there when you’re not alive? Killing takes away free will, as does rape and torture. As you just stated then Yahweh is evil. Even further than knowing that these people would turn out so bad and yet not doing anything until it couldn’t be solved, the same problem occurs with the devil. Why would a good all powerful god have such a huge weakness such as evil in his universe?


BleachDrinkAndBook

You mean place limitations on our free will? Which would effectively mean that there would be no free will? He waited, knowing they could become beyond saving, but also knowing they could have changed before they reached that point. Due to free will existing, time isn't truly linear, there are infinite possibilities, and God knows all, past, present and future. Meaning God knew every way things could have turned out, so in all likelihood, he had given them other chances, and chose not to chronicle that time in history because it was less important than everything else he was planning to put into his holy text. Death doesn't remove your free will, it removes your life. As an afterlife also exists according to Christianity, the dead would have simply gone to whatever "hell" truly is. Even after death, though, the fact that you chose to act how you did in life doesn't change. He created many types of beings, and gave them all free will. Which also enables them to act in ways you don't want them to. Prior to creating anything, all that existed was God. Thus everything in existence was exactly in tune with his own will. He chose to create other beings with their own minds and ideas, and give them the ability to act on those ideas. It was our choices that brought evil into the world. We chose to go against what was layed out as good. God gave us free will anyway, knowing it could lead to evil because he wanted to make companions for himself, and companions with no will of their own are little more than blocks of dirt. To simplify: God's will didn't create evil, our will did. He simply didn't stop us from acting how we wanted.


Complete_Gazelle4363

Since there are infinite possibilities why not aid the world towards the best possible, if not perfect, universe by interfering the way that he interferes in the Old Testament except replace the mass murders with teachings. There’s really no reason why not. Death does remove free will. If you can’t act out your will then you don’t have it. In hell you’re stuck in a fiery pit where worms eat away at you. There is 0 available chances for free will there. And even in heaven you have to praise god and be good so no free will there either. With that said, death itself is a practice of taking away free will so why did god create it? The problem with your argument about satan’s free will is that he was knowledgeable which ,the lack of, is the reason for why Eve sinned. If satan knew all the benefits of sticking with god then why not stick with him. If god knew satan had a chance of defecting why not do the few things different that he saw in the timelines where satan stayed good? An all powerful god by necessity has no needs! It’s in the name. Why did he need to have companions? I usually hear ‘for his glory’ which goes against companionship in general as it just creates an unequal relationship which in no way produces any benefit to a god and one again, an all powerful god wouldn’t need other’s glory unless, of course, he was narcissistic.


BleachDrinkAndBook

>Since there are infinite possibilities why not aid the world towards the best possible, if not perfect, universe by interfering the way that he interferes in the Old Testament except replace the mass murders with teachings. There’s really no reason why not. If he came down and start just guiding people directly it would lead to one if two things in the end: complete reliance on God to the point of people not thinking for themselves, or what happened in the Garden, people choosing not to obey. In all likelihood, him not directly interfering would've lead to higher chances of a good outcome than him directly guiding us like a helicopter parent. >Death does remove free will. If you can’t act out your will then you don’t have it. In hell you’re stuck in a fiery pit where worms eat away at you. There is 0 available chances for free will there. And even in heaven you have to praise god and be good so no free will there either. With that said, death itself is a practice of taking away free will so why did god create it? No, it doesn't. Your prior choices were still the results of your will, and death can be a punishment for those choices. You do still have free will there though. You can choose to do what you want, but you are barred from leaving, the only restriction on you that we know of once you're in hell. Nowhere does it say you are forced to worship in heaven, just that those in heaven do. In addition, worship, as described in the Bible, is a way of life where you live in accordance with the rules God set out. Death was created to punish humanity for sinning in the Garden. >The problem with your argument about satan’s free will is that he was knowledgeable which ,the lack of, is the reason for why Eve sinned. If satan knew all the benefits of sticking with god then why not stick with him. If god knew satan had a chance of defecting why not do the few things different that he saw in the timelines where satan stayed good? Eve sinned because she was tempted, not because she lacked knowledge. God created an angel, and made it extremely smart and beautiful and gave it a high position, this cherub then grew arrogant and rebelled. He gave an angel blessings of every kind, and this angel chose to rebel. God is not to blame for the choice of Satan, his decision to allow Satan to act out against God's will speaks more towards God's willingness to allow his creations to make whatever choice they want than it does him being evil. >An all powerful god by necessity has no needs! It’s in the name. Why did he need to have companions? I usually hear ‘for his glory’ which goes against companionship in general as it just creates an unequal relationship which in no way produces any benefit to a god and one again, an all powerful god wouldn’t need other’s glory unless, of course, he was narcissistic. He doesn't need companionship. He wanted it, so he made it. The whole "he wanted companions for his glory" thing is a weird point for people to make. He just wanted to have companions for the sake of having companions. I don't believe it was any deeper than that.


Complete_Gazelle4363

He did it with the Israelites many times(this should be enough to refute that argument)but he just conveniently didn’t extend that compassion to the rest of the world because everyone other than Jews would go dumb or rogue. It’s a fine case of double standards. I guess this part is actually quite vague in the Bible so I would concede that if the afterlifes you describe are indeed the ones Yahweh made then you’re right that there is free will after death. The only problem is that the eternal torture is there. The pit of fire and worms eating you is in fact scripture, two things which, I don’t think I need to explain why, restricts free will. However the constant worship is only something I was told when I used to be Christian which I did not fact check if it was stated or not so in regards to heaven I retract my claims on free will but I will state that ‘the way of life set out by god’ is the same thing you claimed in the argument before this that would lead to either reliance or dissonance so another double standard. Eve ate from the fruit of good and evil which gave her the wisdom of good and evil therefore she did not know about good and evil meaning she did lack knowledge in addition to being tempted(which argumentatively means nothing as it factors down to her ignorance). A smart angel wouldn’t grow ignorant and even if he did, the fact that god didn’t ever consider having a talk with satan to maybe chill out a bit and instead allowed him to ruin his future plans by allowing satan to stick around and have any relation to earth when he decided to give another go at companionship, is not a sign of giving free will but rather incompetence. If he just wanted it then why not make an equal being to himself? He purposely made beings inferior that would worship and respect him. He acts like a father but if he wanted companionship he should have made a friend.


BleachDrinkAndBook

>He did it with the Israelites many times(this should be enough to refute that argument)but he just conveniently didn’t extend that compassion to the rest of the world because everyone other than Jews would go dumb or rogue. It’s a fine case of double standards. He does extend it to everyone else. That's the entire point of Jesus's life and death. Even in the Old Testament where it was more focused on the Israelites he also extended that compassion to non-Jews, like with Jonah where he went to a gentile city, I think it was Assyrians, but I'm not 100% sure of the top of my head, told them to change their ways, and when they did, their wicked deeds were forgiven. >I guess this part is actually quite vague in the Bible so I would concede that if the afterlifes you describe are indeed the ones Yahweh made then you’re right that there is free will after death. The only problem is that the eternal torture is there. The pit of fire and worms eating you is in fact scripture, two things which, I don’t think I need to explain why, restricts free will. However the constant worship is only something I was told when I used to be Christian which I did not fact check if it was stated or not so in regards to heaven I retract my claims on free will but I will state that ‘the way of life set out by god’ is the same thing you claimed in the argument before this that would lead to either reliance or dissonance so another double standard. The torture doesn't restrict your free will, though it does seem extreme. It's one thing I'd like to ask God about when I die, assuming Christianity is, in fact, true. It is stated that heaven is a place of constant worship, but worship as described in the Bible isn't the same thing as worship in a modern context, worship generally brings to mind things like bowing and constantly singing praises to someone or something, while the Bible describes worship as living in a godly way, so heaven would essentially just be a place where everyone who chose to live with faith in God would live together, with all the pain and other things he put on Earth as punishment for the Original Sin gone. Essentially just a bunch of people living good lives, and the difference between that and guiding them directly on Earth is that the people in heaven had a lifetime to choose how to live, and chose how God wanted them to, so when they spend eternity with him, they're there in his presence of their own free will and chose that path without his direct influence. A really weird analogy I'd use is grooming vs adult relationships. If an adult spends the formative years of someone raising them to be reliant on them, and marries them when the groomed is 20 and the groomer is 40, that's predatory. If a 20 year old meets and falls in love with a 40 year old and they get married though, that's just a relationship. If God spent our formative years, our lives on Earth, guiding us to be exactly who he wants, in eternity we'd essentially be a bunch of people he groomed. >Eve ate from the fruit of good and evil which gave her the wisdom of good and evil therefore she did not know about good and evil meaning she did lack knowledge in addition to being tempted(which argumentatively means nothing as it factors down to her ignorance). A smart angel wouldn’t grow ignorant and even if he did, the fact that god didn’t ever consider having a talk with satan to maybe chill out a bit and instead allowed him to ruin his future plans by allowing satan to stick around and have any relation to earth when he decided to give another go at companionship, is not a sign of giving free will but rather incompetence. She didn't know good from evil, but she did know that rules as they were set out. She wasn't ignorant, she had full knowledge that she wasn't supposed to do what she did, and did it anyway. Because she got tempted. He didn't grow ignorant, he grew arrogant. He got a big head and started viewing himself as God's equal, or even greater than God. God may have had a talk with him prior to his fall, all we know is what little is said of his fall in the Bible, which amounts to like 10 verses as a poem. He was the smartest, most beautiful angel, who was appointed a guardian cherub, then he got arrogant and rebelled. We don't get a time-frame or any more in-depth information. God doesn't stop Satan from indirectly interfering in the world because if you have 2 choices, but only 1 of them can ever contact you, you dont actually have 2 choices. God nudges you towards situations where you can act in a way that would fall in line with his ideals, Satan tries to get you to ignore them. >If he just wanted it then why not make an equal being to himself? He purposely made beings inferior that would worship and respect him. He acts like a father but if he wanted companionship he should have made a friend. I don't know, but that's another thing I'd like to ask when I die, again assuming Christianity is true. I'm just a guy with an interpretation of the Bible, I might be completely wrong in some of what I've said, and my entire faith could be nothing but a lie, but with what I've been taught and what I know of the Bible, it seems to be true enough for me to believe it.


Complete_Gazelle4363

The group he didn’t extend it to is far greater than those he did. Of the people who died in the flood many didn’t know of god just like most of history. That however didn’t have to be the case and it would have resulted much more beneficial if it hadn’t . If you can’t think and move that’s basically restricting your free will. Being burned alive absolutely destroys your nerves and neurons so there’s nothing you can really do. If god had told Adam and Eve what good and evil were, basically if he explained to them what things really meant, something necessary in order to act of your own accord in the world instead of being manipulated/ mentally controlled, then Eve would have understood that eating that fruit was evil because it disobeyed god but alas all she knew was that it disobeyed and that she’d die, something she still wouldn’t understand as evil. The thing is that if god made us he made us imperfect so we were apt to fail and he ensured we did by placing the tree that shouldn’t be eaten in the first place. This contrasts with the devil who was made perfect yet for no apparent reason became imperfect(arrogant). He had no reason to fail and the fact that he doesn’t appear in the Old Testament at all and is only explained a bit should be a sign that he may not be real. A perfect good God’s universe is without evil(which is not necessary for free will as creative thoughts and options are existent and to say that without evil there’s be no free will would be a false dichotomy and also supported by your claim on life on heaven) but some defection must have appeared in Yahweh the perfect. The problem of evil is irrefutable in a monotheistic religion but it is solved by a dualist one with two gods fighting for struggle, though it comes with its own problems. Zoroastrianism is a pre-dater to Christianity arising in Persia and it was most likely what introduced the two opposing force idea to Christianity through the romans. This left Christianity, however, as a bit of a Frankenstein religion because of its attempt to resolve the issues arising from both monotheism and polytheism but in the process it created contradictions which are apparent in the Bible. In the church god is seen as a father who basically grooms his sheep and most people are indoctrinated as children so your argument doesn’t really work because ‘grooming’ is in fact how it happens. Even then if it weren’t true it wouldn’t be so wrong to have god teach us because if instead of a groomer relationship you should look at it as a father child relationship like it is said in the Bible. Then it’s just how when you grow up into an adult you become equal with your parents and when you converse you now hold equal knowledge and reciprocated respect. When analyzed god looks more and more like a human construction. There are so many religions and only one supposedly is right. There is no evidence for the creationist theory. The contradictions seen when comparing the old and New Testament where god kills millions for being born in the wrong place and then suddenly doesn’t interfere with the world. The fact that a good god has allowed for a far from good world to continue for so long. The moral incongruity that comes with the sacrifice of one person(Jesus) for billions despite the fact that the billion of rapists still deserve torture yet get heaven by believing they won’t get punished. The historical constant immorality of the church. The lack of evidence for God’s miracles. Lack of evidence for heaven and hell. The continued disproval of the Bible’s claims on the universe as science keeps advancing. The controlling and outdated thinking it endorses. And there’s just so much more. I don’t see how you can still believe it. I used to not too long ago before I began to think critically upon it but as I’ve seen with your aptitude at debating you definitely have the resources for you to start considering and pursuing the question that religion may be entirely human.


loverromantics

he had to wipe us out bc we were sinning so much. n it wasnt just like little white lies we were murdering ppl raping ppl n shit like that n all of that was against gods plan. bc the world was supposed to be perfect n everyone was supposed to be perfect too. but luckily he sent jesus to save us n ensure that even thru our shitty actions we could still have a chance to go to heaven


Complete_Gazelle4363

He didn’t have to wipe everyone out though that’s the thing. If your children are being bad except for one why kill all but the good one when you could seriously discipline? Even better, if you knew all along your children would turn out as such why not take preventative measures? Unless, of course, Yahweh wanted to kill his children, an irrefutably evil thing.


MinecraftAxolotl

The bible says that all had turned away from God except Noah and his family. (Paraphrased)


Complete_Gazelle4363

And that means that they deserve death and eternal torture? Why would that in any good universe even be a question? Death and torture=evil.


Complete_Gazelle4363

The fact that it’s so easy to come up with ways in which the situation could have been handled more fairly should be a sign that Yahweh is not a good god and much less real.


Complete_Gazelle4363

And what is sacrificing your son going to do to save your bad ones? It makes no sense! Why would a good god think that transferring over responsibility from the bad to the good is a morally acceptable system? If I kill someone I better be going to jail not my little brother who said that he’ll go to jail for me, that’s just evil.


loverromantics

ok but his one son was sacrificing his life for all of humanity and for all the new generations that would come after him. sacrificing one person to save billions of ppl is smart tbh. n ik jesus was the innocent one n had never sinnned before but that was literally his purpose on this earth, to save us cus w/o him wed all be doomed. and jesus was a human but he was also god so god was basically sacrificing himself like he knew what he was doing n he prolly didnt care bc him dying wasnt the point it was abt saving everybody


Complete_Gazelle4363

I think you misunderstood my argument, I agree that, if it was moral, it would be a genius plan! 1 in exchange for billions? Great. But the problem is that it’s not moral. If you act there are consequences and no matter if someone gets scapegoated and takes the punishment you’re still the guilty one and deserve punishment. It follows then that it is immoral for you to get away with a crime when someone else is punished for it. That’s unarguably unfair. But god did it and it suddenly becomes good? No. His death doesn’t change the fact that rapists deserve punishment even if they knew that some guy was punished in his stead.


loverromantics

i think ur forgetting god didnt even kill jesus LDJK it was humans 😩


Complete_Gazelle4363

God sent him down as a sacrifice knowing he’d be killed and that refutes no part of my claim, goats could have killed Jesus and it still wouldn’t have affected the fact that his death taking away any of the condemnation from evil people is an evil plan🐐


loverromantics

yea god knew it would happen because it was part of his plan to save humanity for our sins it wasnt this big ass tragedy that christians mourn abt all day bc it helped everybody in the long run. also god didnt even directly kill him their were numerous attempts by HUMANS to kill him before he was even dead. also god couldve used a normal human to sacrifice if he was actually evil but he personified himself and sacrificed himself instead.


Complete_Gazelle4363

Loverromantics I don’t think you’re seeing my point. It doesn’t matter who was sacrificed or who sacrificed them, the problem is that the sacrifice doesn’t free anyone of the need for punishment for their actions. Read what I said a few comments up about rapists in relation to this plan.


CharizardFlame2000

If you mean biblical God, absolutely. He wiped out all of humanity in a flood, used his son as a sacrifice for mankind, and is punishing all of humanity because of a decision two people made. The only thing the devil actually did was trick Adam and Eve into eating an apple. Meanwhile, for someone that’s always supposedly ready to give second chances, he sure is being stubborn about giving humanity another chance for immortality.


ZiemniaczkiOgoreczki

You said that creation of sin "trick Adam and Eve into eating an apple" is nothing. If not satan who tricked them there wouldn't be a sin.


lesbian_canadian

Which god? I'm assuming the bible related god. Based on who murdered more people according to the bible.... god is absolutely more evil. Satan killed 10. And god killed well over 2 million


rednax1206

> Which god? I'm assuming the bible related god. They said "in Christianity", so yes.


RemmyX3

Yes.


3MrBojangles3

I don't believe in the devil. I believe evil comes from our ability of free will and how easy it is to do wrong for personal gain.


3MrBojangles3

Also I think a lot of the bible is taken too literally and a lot of the stories can be interpreted In many ways


Complete_Gazelle4363

Its a book of myths that have a lot of psychological value and in fact does represent a lot of the human mind, just like any other book of myths.


ChumpmeisterElite

"The devil kind of just chills in hell" What cartoons have you been watching?


Demonic_Miracles

Sunday morning cartoons.


LalaGeeko

Absolutely.


GodLeeSwager

Some christians, I don't know today, but a while ago they didn't like non christians in ways that they didn't let their culture enter theirs, deprivating the growth of the communitys, and they were very cruel to them. With this in mind, yes more cruel than the devil( who was probably any other religions god).


RanibowSprimkle04

My best guess, reality is simply a test by the true creator to learn about the psychology of a complex evolved species such as us. The creator produced a simulation capable of forming self-reproducing life with conscious choice-making, and after we developed to the point we craved answers more than anything else, just as one can become sense-deprived and begin hallucinating, we began producing our own, supernatural explanations, and because of the mistakeful nature of cognition, these explanations had many logical mistakes within them, which can be seen to this day. To answer your question, god cannot be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent at the same time. There is a channel on YouTube called TheraminTrees which goes into the deep details of why religion is faulty in so many ways.


Kar_Vex

God is the reason I am an atheist, when you look back in time, when has the church ever had a good Idea, and when their bad ideas flop and people get hurt the only thing they can do is "offer" an apology.


3MrBojangles3

If you don't mind me asking what do you think about life, our existence and how complex and intelligent it feels? And how do you think it all started? All the way back to the first atom or molecule, where did they come from? I think it's crazy to think about. It had to start from something but something doesn't come from nothing lol. It's all fuckin weird when you go that deep lol


BleachDrinkAndBook

No, he's not. First, the devil doesn't just "chill in hell" he actively tries to get people sent there. If someone is already on a path there, he leaves them to their own devices, but he tries to get people who are following God to leave, and in turn get sent to hell. Look at what happened to Job, Satan came in, saw Job doing his thing, following God and all that, and then went to God and said "I bet if I make his life miserable he's gonna renounce you" and God, knowing how Job would act, allowed Satan to do horrible things to him, with the caveat that no harm would come to Job himself. When that failed, Satan came back and said "if you would let me hurt him, he'd renounce you for sure" so God allowed that, with the caveat that he couldn't kill him. When that failed and Satan came back again God said "nah, you failed miserably, get out of here" and then I guess just sorta left it at that. God took away the immortality and perfection of his creation because he set out 1 single rule, and Adam and Eve broke it, then tried shifting the blame everywhere except themselves. God said "you can have anything in this garden, except the fruit from that one single tree" and they couldn't manage that. Then when he came to visit, obviously aware they had done it, he looks for them, also obviously knowing exactly where they are, until they come out from hiding. When he asks them why they're wearing clothes and they respond with "because we're naked" and he asks who told them, Adam blames Eve for everything while Eve blames the serpent. Given how God had been acting, had Adam and Eve simply admitted that they had eaten the fruit he told them not to eat, and showed that they regretted their act, he likely would've let them off with a much lighter punishment. God consistently gives humanity chances to improve, and humanity constantly spits in his face. How many times did the Jews turn their backs on God and start worshipping idols and ignoring his priests? How many times did he still come save them? Why would an evil being sacrifice a part of himself to be the eternal sacrifice to cover for all sins? Why would an evil being give us free will? Why would an evil being help when asked? God acts in ways we can't understand sometimes, but he is wholly good. He's given people so many chances to right ourselves, to the point it seems like he would be fully justified in just deciding that he's had enough and wiping us all out.


anotherrandomboi

Think about hell, it’s a place for bad people supposedly. But if you’re a bad person, and you go to a place full of bad people… You would be praised. You’d be praised by Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Escobar, Kim Jong-il, Kim Il-sung, and probably even the goddamn devil himself.


SerMonkeys

Uh... no not really. Like Old Testament God was a hardass for sure. But ultimately within the story he was attempting to guide his creation to good lives and such. Where as Lucifer was more just "fuck everything and everyone cause I'm lonely"


3MrBojangles3

I have a question... Where do dinosaurs come into play in everything? Why aren't they talked about in the bible? I'm just curious. I've never thought about it before


all-names-are-taken4

Idk if christians even think dinosaurs existed because they’ve never said that they don’t believe they existed but at the same time according to a quick google search they think the earth was made 10000 years ago but dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago. Ive never thought about this before but its quite confusing now that i am thinking about it


3MrBojangles3

They can't believe that all the fossils and everything dug up is fake can they? That would be the icing on the cake for me lol


all-names-are-taken4

I know. I might say this to my extremely christian nan next time i see her to see how she reacts


3MrBojangles3

How long ago were adam and eve created?


all-names-are-taken4

Ok, this is really fucking with my brain. This says that scientists used a molecular clock to show that adam was born around 120000-156000 years ago and eve was born around 99000-148000 years ago. So according to these guys, not only they might not have even been alive at the same time, but they were born BEFORE THE FUCKING UNIVERSE WAS MADE


3MrBojangles3

Lol I saw that. But others say 6000-7700 years ago


all-names-are-taken4

Yeah i don’t think anyone really knows because this says 9700 years ago. So some time around 6000-9000 years ago


3MrBojangles3

And then like 1700 days of floods. So there's no room for dinosaurs lol


all-names-are-taken4

This is some big brain stuff right here. We need to get this conversation published and sent to every christian


3MrBojangles3

I don't know I can't find straight answers


SockFullOfPennies

OP, you saved me a post. Yeah, I don't get it either...


Oinkus42069

No god is good. He did all that for a reason. He let jesus die as a ransom.


OliverDeerArt

I was born into the Cristian religion. I can tell you this, the only thing the devil really did was make eve eat an apple that "damned humans to die" or whatever. Even though the apple gave humans the ability to think on our own and made it possible for Adam and eve to realize they can procreate. Every death, every hateful thing was done by god. Even his followers are evil (some). Because they're the ones that say lgbt will go to hell. They're the ones that throw out their kids for being "evil" Theres a website showing which priest/pastors is a pedophile. Satanists is about minding their own business unless you come into their territory (aka their home) and cause bs. They don't stand with pedos or rapist. They even had a law in their book about it. Everyone can say "oh they need that in their book lol" but apparently so does the bible. Since it's the christains/catholic/baptist that do most of the rapes. So in my honest opinion Yes God is more evil than the devil.


Arrow_Archetype

In defence of the God I worship. Before man was made all things were good and upright, and there was peace in the universe. For he that being God had set some boundaries in place. We now know these generally as the 10 Commandments, or more aptly the law of peace. Now the matter of sin came into existence when Lucifer now Satan was not allowed into the council of the creation of Man, which was held between YHWH and Jesus. I have heard it said that there was very little difference between Jesus and Satan in terms of appearance and status, now if this be the case Lucifer being exceedingly beautiful would have been prideful over this matter. And this was all well and good before the topic of the creation of Man came to exist as there was no contention over the matter before hand. Howbeit Lucifer could not leave well enough alone and his pride became bitterness towards God and his Son but more so towards Jesus. Thus the universe's first conflict began. Now, According to one prophet, God did indeed try to settle this in a peaceful manner, by getting Lucifer to repent of the evil in his heart. When Lucifer decided to reject the offer before him time and time again, his that being Lucifer character formed into that of a rebel and hatred seethed from his heart. Now during this time Lucifer had been riling up the Angels of heaven to the point where at the hight of Lucifer's campaign against God he had amassed a following of about half under his cause (now for context; it is believed that there is enough angels in heaven to encompass every human to protect them from the evil whispers and temptations of Satan now, in short the number is uncountable.) This later reduced to about a third of the angels as some decided to be safe and repent and to remain with God. Likewise God had only one request for mankind do not eat of the fruit on the tree in the middle of the garden. It is an easy request seeing as the amount of choice in the garden was as limitless as the days promised and should Adam (Man) have at any stage gotten bored of all the fruit and all the herb then God would have devised a new plant for him to eat of. The only reason we have rape, murder, suicide, child pornography is because of a single angel not putting his pride aside for a greater cause other than himself and had allowed God to work out His plan, none of us would be suffering as we are right now. These are a few promises of God in bullet form: Everlasting Life (John 3:16) No suffering emotionally, physically or mentally (Revelation 21:4) Security (Jeremiah 33:6) Liberation from addiction (Matthew 11:28-30) These are but a small sampling of the promises and but a single supporting verse. Satan has his offer too, but that comes with the side effects of spiritual death, decay, rampant crime and every self-devaluating thing imaginable. Here is Satan's offer: Temporal pleasure, if you commit a crime (and if it helps him) he will try to conceal it, the removal of restraints (which end up causing mental health issues as a side effect.) These all can be observed if you take two groups one who has no religious ties and a devout followers of God you will find that the devout people are healthier, happier even though they generally are poorer and not well liked. Conclusion: Is God more evil than the Devil in Christianity? No, God has done His best while working with the constraint of the free will of mankind. While trying to be fair to Mankind and Just to the angels of heaven and the fallen angels. Thanks for reading.


JellyfishRevolution

It really depends on perspective, here I am. A Satanist, I don't believe in Jesus/God if you must. I really, really, really believe that Christianity is to keep people in line or something, so they're easy to manipulate and seen as good and pure, and that's why Satanism, and Atheism, or any other kind of pagan religion that doesn't involve the Christian God in a positive way is seen as crazy and unacceptable according to modern-day society. I don't have any problems with Christianity whatsoever, I believe you can practice whatever religion you please.


YkvBarbosa

No, he is not. And everything stated there is either wrong or twisted. First of all, if you read both the books of Iyov (Job) and Apokálypsis (Revelations) you’ll see that 1: the Devil is neither chilling nor in hell yet, and that most certainly he does not rule hell, before that is implied somehow. About the “Apple of Eden”, it wasn’t even an apple. It was a fruit, and the only reason why people think it was an apple is because of some old English translation. And the issue wasn’t that the Nachash (serpent) made the men and woman eat a fruit, it’s the meaning behind that. The Creator made all the other fruits for the men to eat, but about one of them He said that they shouldn’t eat, otherwise they’d die, and they disobeyed Him. And your statement of God being “more evil” than the devil is so untrue that, even though He firstly said that Adam (and Eve) would die at the day they ate the fruit, he allowed them to live a lot more after that. Let us not forget, He is THE LORD ALMIGHTY, Creator of everything, and Adam were nothing more than clay molded and that even their breath and spirit were given BY God. About the “point made” by God, again, He is the giver of all life, so all life is His to take away - which is something that even Iyov recognizes when his wife tells him to curse God and die. Also, Iyov was used by God as a priest to intercede for his family often, and probably also taught them to follow the ways of the Lord, which means they, even dying, will go to Heavens. And if they wouldn’t? We are still talking about GOD. Everybody will die, good or evil, and people die because God takes back His breath from the human. If someone good dies, that person will go to Heaven, and if someone evil dies, they are just receiving what they should receive, because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). And about His son, Jesus, well, the Messiah CHOSE to obey until death, so anyone who believed could live with God forever. It was an act of sacrifice and love, not only of God but also of Jesus, who was brought to life again by His Father, and now has a name above all names


tombom789

The devil represents pure evil and temptation. He is the the embodiment of our daily sins, gluttony, greed, rage, jealousy, etc.. I don’t know much about Christianity but 4 years in catholic high school taught me that. If we continue to follow a life of sin and unjust living and fail to repent and accept God as our creator and give our heart to Jesus, he won’t be there to forgive you if your sin and therefore you will spend eternity in hell where you discover the consequences of your actions and live in the torment of sin. I could be wrong idk. I believe religion is relative from person to person.


[deleted]

Here's my thinking God isn't evil he was just too cruel, so that's why jesus is our savior because without him we will all go to hell for sining We pray to God but ask jesus n God for help. Devil wants us to think he is nicer than God so he tricks us and then when we sell our soul to him he gives us toruture for eternity. God wanted humans to be nice and perfect and the when someone did a sin he killed them. But when jesus came and did nothing bad at all and got killed, he begged God for human forgivness. If you actually read the bible you should know "Life" is a gift from God and God is watching to see what you do in your life. It's more like a experince then a "what should I do for God" you don't live for God, God didn't make you so you can please him, he wanted you to live to live. I don't think anyone can go to hell unless their pure evil. And the word good or evil is just a illusion, good or evil is just a way of someone point of view on someone else. Like I can think someone is evil for doing something, but someone else can think that person is good for doing the same thing I thought was evil and we could both have valid reasons. So what I'm saying is live for you and do it for God. Live how you want to live and live because you love God, do it for God. And live for you.


Demonic_Miracles

I can’t really live for me though when I’m both atheist and LGBT. Two things God thinks is sinful and it’s something I’ll never ask for forgiveness for. What if I want to live for only myself and my peers, not God?


[deleted]

There was no saying what so ever in the bible that being gay or being part of the lgbt is meaningless and that your going to hell for it. And being athiest is bad but that's what you want to believe in then so be it. And your not living for God your doing it for him, he wants you to live to be happy and enjoy your life. Let me get two things down because your are still being told that those things are sins, witch is untrue. 1) Being gay takes no part in if your going to hell or not. In the bible God did not send gay people to hell. He sended the gay dude to hell for killings his family not being gay witch people miss understand. In the bible God said "love your nieghbore as you would yourself" means treat the people around you, regardless of who they are, and treat them with respect because you want respect. Fun fact Noah in the bible was gay and still went to hevean 2) Athiest is a not being in God or Gods. When you don't believe in God, he doesn't hate you for it, becuase Jesus die for you to believe that. Jesus wanted you to have free will and do what you want. God did too, saying you don't believe in God means (I'm guessing) you think for yourself and not as gaulible as other people witch is wonderful. And you will not go to hell for not believe in God because God knows that once you see him when you die, you will love to be with him and he will kindly accept you into hevean


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[deleted]

Yes you deserve a upvote


qwertyZZZZZZZZZ

No. The devil is literally supposed to be the embodiment of evil. It’s not that hard to understand


all-names-are-taken4

Yeah but i can only think of two examples in the entire bible where he does anything particularly bad


qwertyZZZZZZZZZ

Who cares he’s still the embodiment of evil. Plus that’s the Old Testament so u should really be asking Jews instead of Christians. But nah there are always people like u that dedicate an hour of thinking a day just to try and make Christianity seem like the boogieman.. if you’re not Christian just mind ur own business and stop trying so hard


all-names-are-taken4

Lol why are you so pissed? My point it that the worst thing the devil does it get eve to eat an apple whereas god does stuff like drown all of humanity and do the stuff he did to Job


qwertyZZZZZZZZZ

Again.. Old Testament. Also I notice that most atheists that hate on Christianity also do weed and post in subreddits showing off their weed, do u do that?


all-names-are-taken4

Where the fuck have you heard that lol. I think your thinking of liberals not atheists


qwertyZZZZZZZZZ

Ok then ur a skinny fat dude who’s trash is stacked with coke cans and who has chip crumbs all in between ur nails and keyboard while u play call of duty 9 hours a day and during queue u go on r/memes?


all-names-are-taken4

Im… a skinny… fat dude. I think those cancel each other out


qwertyZZZZZZZZZ

Google it, u might find out that u are


all-names-are-taken4

Hmm, it would appear it is a thing. Anyway, I’ll have you know that i am 10’7 big muscle man. [this is me](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Arnold_Schwarzenegger_1974.jpg/220px-Arnold_Schwarzenegger_1974.jpg)


IndianaJones101

Maybe you should ask someone in 'the know' like people based on true stories told like: Annabell (demon possessed doll) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paFgQNPGlsg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paFgQNPGlsg) Amityville Horror (a house possessed by demons) George and Kathy Lutz and their three children moved into the Amityville house. After 28 days, the Lutzes fled the house, claiming to have been terrorized by paranormal phenomena while living there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Maq9H1lZ8 or the 1974 case of Doris Bither, a woman who claimed to have been repeatedly sexually assaulted by an invisible entity (a demon) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODaJ7rVqvmA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODaJ7rVqvmA) and there's plenty more Seems like the devil is willing to push the envelope more ... im just sayin ... but who the hell knows. ha.


loverromantics

bro WHAT ?! that apple is literally what destroyed humanity for the rest of time and is the reason why the world is so fucked today. it wasnt just sum lil apple u can grow outside yo house


Demonic_Miracles

But the apple is the reason we’re able to understand good from bad. Without it we couldn’t understand morality. It’s the free will that allows us to be bad.


3MrBojangles3

Evil is defined by what is not... as the absence of good. Does that answer your question?


3MrBojangles3

You can have good without evil but you cannot have evil without good