Memo shows Trump lawyer's six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election
By - circumventthesystem
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Evidence of a coup. Really, seriously. Not joking.
trump attempted multiple coups. The attack on the 1st amendment bon June 1st after his bunker baby antics were released. He tried to pull in the military to crush free expression and also suggested he would have them control polling places. Milley killed that really quickly when he said he wouldn't allow the military to be used this way. But people can't forget that trump attempted a military take over of the country. And it shouldn't be minimized because he failed miserably.
There's the coup discussed here.
Then the Jan 6th attack where he sent the cult in to violently over throw the country.
People are in serious denial about how much damage he's done to our country and how dangerous he will be if we don't bring him to justice
Don't forget about the 'soft' attempts at persuading state officials in multiple jurisdictions to not certify AND pressuring the DOJ to claim widespread fraud w no evidence.
Trump tried coups like a thief checks windows and doors to see if they are unlocked before B&E
Don't forget about the unmarked vans that were illegally snatching people off the streets around the same time.
But, it's totally Biden's America that is like Nazi Germany. /s
"AlL oF tHoSe PeOpLe WeRe ReLeAsEd Un-HaRmEd"
-Actual reply I received when I brought up the unmarked vans on a Conservative sub
And, for the record, when unmarked vans grab people off the street with no due process there is no way to even know if that true.
No paperwork got filed. We don’t actually know if everyone grabbed was released. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that unsolved trans murders in Portland and Seattle exploded around that time.
That's where you went wrong. They don't understand that doesn't come out of Tucker Carlson or Alex Jones' ass. Which means they won't get anything that's not complete and utter horseshit.
Actually, Trump's first coup was how he got into the White House in the first place.
That was Russia's coup.
Yes and Trump & Co. were highly involved. And without it, Trump most likely wouldn't have gotten into office to keep on couping. Lol
Seditious conspiracy literally on paper.
To anyone who doesn't read the article or memo:
* the proposed plan was to declare that 7 states had submitted multiple slates of electors (this is not true. Some groups in certain states tried to claim they were an alternate slate of electors but it was never official).
* Then no candidate would reach 270 votes
* Then the House would vote, which would elect Trump (since each state's delegates get one vote).
* They wanted Pence to do this without asking for permission.
I'm worried about them doing a variation of this on January 6th, 2025 if Republicans control the House and Senate.
* Begin reading each state's electoral counts.
* Object to Democrat won states. (Doesn't have to be all of them. Just enough to take the Democratic candidate under 270.)
* Split into separate chambers and vote on whether to count those states' electors.
* Republicans have majorities so they vote not to count them.
* Neither candidate has 270 so it goes to the House.
* Republicans control more House state delegations so they elect the Republican candidate.
* They now have the trifecta and can change all the rules so that they can pass everything they want to without any Democratic objection/filibuster/comments.
They are 100% going to try this next presidential election. The only buffer is it will be a democrat vice president controlling the process and that acts as a buffer. However if congress turns to republican controll in the midterm election this will be their only goal.
I wonder what people and states will do when Republicans just start ignoring the vote? Honestly democrats should have gotten rid of the electoral college back in 2000 when it came down to Florida. Back when the government still somewhat worked. Now we have backdoor 3D chess procedures to legitimately worry about never having a fair election again.
I feel like if this actually happens you will have violence in DC. That’s flagrant dictatorship shit.
Like, Trump never fully understood the depths of hatred he brought down on himself, and him legitimately stealing the election like he tried to so flagrantly do *would* have led to mass civil unrest. I've said it before buy Milley and the other JCoS refusing to bow down to Trump's will literally saved this country.
The violence and fury that would have been unleashed would be unhealable. There would have been a schism in this country that would likely never heal. It's not hyperbole to imagine national collapse.
I'm not conspiratorial... but it would be a dream come true for some despotic regime to destroy the United States just by giving a steady diet of misinformation to roughly 30%-40% of the country.
Yeah, I remember the news stations painting 1/6 initially as an out-of-control protest, culminating in "our democracy withstood this". It appears this only failed due to the actions of a **small handful of individuals**.
As all this info comes to light, it's very clear that our democracy (and country) failing doesn't require the perfect alignment of the planets, or holes in 10 different pieces of swiss cheese to align - it takes much, MUCH less than that. 1-2 bad actors and a bunch of party-line cowards too afraid to defy Dear Leader.
We were genuinely very, very close. And all of those potential ways to steal elections? Those loopholes haven't been closed. They've been **EXPANDED** with voting law changes, additional claims of fraud (CA Recall) further convincing the already-brainwashed 30-40%, and Facebook churning out more propaganda than ever before.
And you're 100% right. The country would collapse overnight. There will be a run on the banks. Widespread violence like this country has never seen before. End of the world level shit for citizens of this country. And it's not conspiratorial at all - we have proof Russia has been feeding this. And they're winning the information war.
You aren't conspiratorial. There's rampant evidence. Our enemies (e.g., definitely Russia and quite likely other countries too) are polarizing this country to insane degrees. Even the most basic science and public health measures like wearing a surgical mask to prevent spreading a deadly respiratory disease or getting a vaccine to save your life has been politicized through misinformation and propaganda.
Granted, they aren't just feeding misinformation to 30-40% of the country. They are trying to stoke division from all sides. Our enemies aren't just sending propaganda to conservatives. They also are trying to animosity, racial tensions, and general anxiety among progressives and liberals as well. Reinforce all your beliefs and not find middle ground. E.g., conservative? Every video you see is of benevolent cops being attacked by violent criminals. Get shown every action by some stupid college student who tries so hard to be anti-racist, that they start being fairly racist. Get shown every story where a gun owner stopped a horrific crime. E.g., liberal? every story you see is of racist cops using excessive force against unarmed peaceful citizens. Get shown every Trump supporter dying of COVID and still warning their friends not to get the vaccine and trust dewormers days before their obituary is announced.
Again, I'm not saying centrism is the solution or both sides are equally wrong or anything. But Russia's agenda is for the US to lead to hyper-polarization and endless in-fighting and self-destruction.
I don't get why more people aren't getting this. The simple fact that the right is so much worse does not change the fact that we are being manipulated into destroying our own country.
huh, if only we could think of some despotic regime that's been caught doing that exact thing...
Pretty sure this has been the plan for the former Soviet Bloc countries for decades. We acted like the sleeper agents the Soviet’s had supposedly placed in the US back in the ‘80s just up and disappeared when the USSR imploded, but I reckon they’re still there, and absolutely infesting American politics from the school boards on up. I think you’re spot on, and I don’t think it’s conspiratorial at all to look at the facts and see how the theories fit those facts. Provided you allow for error, it’s a pretty scientific approach. Personally, I think we are in for a hell of a ride, and not in a good way.
Had this absurd scheme come to pass, there would have been massive, immediate, and national protests. You know those well-behaved protests with the pink hats where people held up clever signs?
This wouldn't have been that sort of protest.
Yeah, I feel like were to take place, a lot of military generals would say, yeah no, we’re not doing that…. A lot of military understand they’re fighting for freedom, and a taught that enemies can be foreign or domestic.
Don't forget that Flynn was a general for years, not all of them are Milley - the schism would exist in the armed forces as well as society
Foreign and domestic flat out in the oath. They're talking about changing the oath of enlistment to remove "and the orders... Of the president" because it can cause conflict if leadership says one thing but potus says another.
Yeah, not just DC.
We've seen more than a little flagrant dictator shit in the past 5 years. No one has been prosecuted over it yet.
Yep. That's everyone drive up to DC together. If a few million of us turn up we'd get stuff done.
>They are 100% going to try this next presidential election. The only buffer is it will be a democrat vice president controlling the process and that acts as a buffer. However if congress turns to republican controll in the midterm election this will be their only goal.
Republicans can only fucking yank our chain for so long. People are fucking fed up with them. Look at all the riots. This is just the beginning for them.
I'm staying far as fuck away from republican's as I can. All of them are batshit nutjobs.
They have been full on indoctrinated.
It's not that easy to "just get rid of it." That would require a constitutional amendment, and we don't control enough state houses to get that done. Democrats need to fight to win enough state houses to make this happen.
That's funny. These assholes don't care about the constitution and were 100% willing to ignore it and make their own shit up on Jan 6. The only thing that stopped it was Mike Pence doing the right thing. (For once)
2nd time. First time was calling in the guard Jan 6
We're much closer to getting rid of it than you know. Many states have passed laws that will automatically give their electors to the candidate that won the popular vote across all states. These laws will take effect once the total number of states electorates with similar bills hit 270, meaning the electoral college will be effectively abolished and the winner of the popular vote will be given enough electorates to win.
That's not really getting rid of it. That's just working with it. Nothing would stop a state from passing another law backing out of the Compact.
All of the states that have passed these laws are left leaning or Democratic strongholds. So this won’t change much until swing states and/or red states enact these laws. (Spoiler: they won’t)
They don't have to remove the electoral college, they just have to fix distribution of house seats so that smaller states aren't overrepresented in both houses of congress.
That won't require a constitutional amendment.
Didn't Georgia pass a law allowing them to ignore the vote if they "suspect" anything
Well, I'm sure the Republicans will be dissuaded from this plan due to the harsh consequences they suffered for Trump's attempt. /s
This is exactly why the EC needs to be dissolved entirely
"*But the popular vote would put liberals in ultimate power!!*"
No shit, you asshats. That's because conservatives are outnumbered by a pretty good margin. They are just the loudest.
We need to stop the tyranny of the minority. If conservatives want to be more popular, maybe they should do more popular things instead of racing to see which of them can be the worst politician to ever exist for votes because their electorate has been reduced to reactionary, angry, violent troglodytes.
“If you’re worried about that, why don’t you just slightly moderate your platform to appeal to more voters?”
GOP: “No, that sounds awful.”
GOP: "What platform?"
>That's because conservatives are outnumbered by a pretty good margin.
This is what I never understood when people argue that a few coastal cities would decide each election. You mean, as opposed to right now where a few sparsely populated fly over states decide the election?
land and cows can't vote
But sheep can.
I'm real tired of folks in states more people want to live in having their presidential vote count for less than some racist ass hat in Mississippi who think mask mandates are a dangerous infringement on their first amendment rights, and the vax is a deep state lizard people plot designed to change your DNA via gene therapy and 5G technology.
>the vax is a deep state lizard people plot designed to change your DNA via gene therapy and 5G technology.
This is where I give them my full, undivided attention and ask as seriously and sincerely as I possibly can, "Change your DNA *how*, exactly?"
> as seriously and sincerely as I possibly can, "Change your DNA *how*, exactly?"
"Do you own research!" /s
"Oh, I have! And extensively, too! Let's compare notes!"
"What are notes, \[f-slur\]?! You think you're better than me?"
Not worth engaging with.
I’m not southern, but maybe teleport with a fly on you?
That could definitely cause problems for Pence.
Well, it's *one* of the reasons.
At that point, potus should just send in the Marshalls to arrest every republican in on the plot for sedition, and then carry on with the routine business of counting the votes. Republicans can never be reasoned with because they are not reasonable people.
This would be an act of war. Other countries would support each side according to their own interests. WWIII starts. Magas get what they always wanted: the end of life itself.
If the vice president can just throw out election results, why even bother having elections? Like, why wouldn't Kamala Harris just do it in 2024?
More importantly, why didn’t GORE do it and make himself President in 2000?
Because his ethics were not win-at-all-costs.
Gore claimed there were arguments to be made and he could have kept fighting the election count, but doing so would be destructive and divisive, so he conceded instead and put the nation ahead of his personal interests.
Trump : Destructive and divisive you say ? Hold my Coke !
> If the vice president can just throw out election results, why even bother having elections?
He can't. Which is why Pence didn't.
> Like, why wouldn't Kamala Harris just do it in 2024?
Because Republicans haven't thought through what it is they think they want.
Pence was advised by one of his predecessors not to do it. The following sentence is one of the weirdest things I've ever written unironically. Dan Quayle saved democracy.
We're lucky Pence had a shred of integrity. Imagine if someone like Ted Cruz was VP. He would have no problem flushing our country down the toilet.
Ted Cruz would shoot his own mother in the face if he thought it would advance him politically.
Trump called his wife ugly on national television, to his smarmy fucking face. Not only did Cruz *not* defend her, he immediately attached his lips to Trumps greasy grundle the second he took office. He remains attached to this day.
He also blamed a politically unpopular action on his kids when he fled winter ravaged Texas for Mexico without a second thought.
There is no low too low for Ted Cruz. When he hits the floor, he breaks out the pickaxe to keep digging.
Cruz is a power-hungry narcissist, which is why he’s dangerous. A lot of people make fun of him because he’s such an insufferable charlatan but he has a big following that absolutely *loves* him for it and that he trolls the libs and media on Twitter.
That's the thing - the lawyers and Trump were right. Pence did have the power to throw out the elect "based on massive fraud" and hand it to Trump "until this all gets figured out".
Not legal power, not on-paper power. But if he just _did it anyway_ who is going to stop him?
That's why Trump was so pissed at him. He could have done it and chose not to.
The system is fucked.
Oh, they thought it through. They know Democrats have scruples and morals and would never do crazy ass shit like this. It's why Republicans are fine keeping the filibuster. They can use it to block every damn thing in the Senate and the Democrats are too moral (I'm sure the word they use is more akin to "chickenshit") to play the same dirty pool back at them.
What they want is power. Power right now and damn the consequences. Once they have the power they can deal with fixing it so that nobody else can use the same thing on them.
To be fair, what would probably happen is that Republicans would do this, get away with it…then whenever something legitimate happens and a dem needs to exert the same power, they’ll say they “don’t want to stoop to their level” and let republicans get away with more shit.
You need to have control of a majority of congressional house delegations for this to work, this is something the Democrats are unlikely to ever do because the single representative from Wyoming has as much voting power as all 52 from California. So if Biden were to lose in 2024 and Kamala had the power to invalidate the election, the house would vote for the Republican candidate anyway.
"[...] is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?"
"Do the Chair know we gonna look like some punkass seditionists out there?"
“Mothafucka chair ain’t recognize yo ass!”
Guys give us ALL The Wire quotes.
We don't know where the fuck we'll end up!
"No adjourn yo' asses..."
The response from Stringer to that is so hilarious. Stringer goes on this huge thing about how fighting and killing each other is so bad for business, and how they should all act professional and be real businessman. Then when someone points out a potential flaw in his plan he reverts to violence and intimidation. Stringer was such a good character.
So many great and complex characters on that show. They didn't dumb it down to all good or all bad, except maybe Marlo, not much nuance to him.
I think that was part of what Simon and Burns were trying to illustrate. Barksdale was ruthless but he genuinely cared about the community. It was very clear from the way he interacted with Coach (paying for the gym gear for the kids boxing). In the vacuum of Barksdale, something worse cropped up. And something worse… always crops up in a power vacuum.
I smell sweet upvotes coming your way…
>the proposed plan was to declare that 7 states had submitted multiple slates of electors (this is not true. Some groups in certain states tried to claim they were an alternate slate of electors but it was never official).
That wouldn’t have worked anyway because of the electoral count act.
Actually, the ECA covers the situation when more than one return is submitted by the state. If two or more are submitted and can claim the safe harbor deadline, then neither are counted unless both houses (of Congress) agree to count one.
But that's why the crux of their plan was that Pence had unilateral authority as President of the Senate. Their argument was that the ECA infringed (any law really) on the VP's power to make these executive decisions. They just wanted him to do it and then let the court figure it out (by which time there would be a President Trump).
It's a shit argument and even Pence and GOP senators knew that.
The system itself is shit, abolish the electoral college
Nah fix it. Republicans would never sniff having the house, nor the presidency again.
To understand the issue with the EC, and it’s outcomes recently, you need to know a little history. One, the Electoral College is tied to House Seats. The House was supposed to expand with the population, but that got knee capped with The Reapportionment Act of 1929 . This limited the expansion of the House to it's current 435 seats. The overall effect of this, is it gives dirt voting rights out of thin air. Where as a person in Wyoming(the least populous state in the Union) has almost 3 times the voting power of someone from California..
Now, with that out of the way, logic should be easy here. If the founders intended to give votes to dirt they would have tied the Electoral College to the Senate ONLY, as the Senate was the power balance to the "People's House". They wouldn't have tied it to seats that were supposed to expand with the population. Cause, as the house was supposed to expand with the population, the most populous states would have the the advantage in the house, and therefore most of the Electoral College votes as designed.
Personally, the EC is corrupt, and it was corrupted a long time ago. I am ok with it if the House functioned as it should, expanding with the population. I would be in support of the EC if we repeal The Reapportionment Act of 1929, and institute the Wyoming Rule.
Uncap the house. This goes a long way to fixing it.
The reapportionment act is the single biggest reason for today’s mess. It’s on its face unfair and undemocratic
It was a very serious article until it declared that Pence had called old VP Quayle for constitutional advice.
[They considered it unconstitutional.](https://i.imgur.com/8B0ShHQ.jpg)
*They wanted Pence to do this without asking for permission.
Because at that point we had shown our government to be so fucking feckless that if he just made it up and ran with it, nobody would have intervened.
Giuliani called a Republican senator telling him to stall the vote certification as much as possible because they had several states that were ready to send alternate slate of electors by the next day or something like that. They tried to do it without Pence but McConnell refused to do delay the certification.
We really are in the stupidest timeline, where Mike fucking Pence had to save is from a civil war.
>the proposed plan was to declare that 7 states had submitted multiple slates of electors (this is not true. Some groups in certain states tried to claim they were an alternate slate of electors but it was never official).
Weren't all of those "alternate electors" from the GOP?
This is in line with what Trump does: he creates an argument and while the lawyers are wasting time he takes what he wants.
Some of us trading in the stock market actually predicted that plan even before the election itself.
It still blows my mind how right we were. We all had live streams going before Jan 6th kicked off. We knew why specifically they were chanting "Hang Mike Pence".
What kind of traitors support anti-American seditionists like this?!? And with NO EVIDENCE TO BACK YOU UP. NONE. They will all go down in history as traitors.
> What kind of traitors support anti-American seditionists like this?
Don't quite a few Americans view traitorously supporting anti-American seditionists as a key part of their heritage?
Although I guess that was in large part due to them *not* going down in history as traitors, or at least, not in all histories.
Based on the various sources I’ve seen his Reddit supporters provide as “evidence”… they simply do not care. Feelings over facts, full stop.
That will depend on who gets to write the history.
^this and it’s fking infuriating to think about that
Planned a fucking coup on paper and tried to implement it. Note they didn't predicate this scheme on there being any evidence of fraud. At this point they didn't even fucking care. It was a government takeover full stop. How are all these shit stains not in prison right now?!?
What's disgusting is that it's been almost a year since the election, and over 6 months since Garland took over, and there's been 0 accountability.. I know investigations take time, but the overwhelming amount of evidence combined with 0 action on anyone on his inner circle is deeply worrying for the future
I think there's more going on in the Justice Department than we know of. I have followed some legal blogs for some time now, wondering wtf is holding them back.
It's clear that they're using RICO statutes to get to inner circle. This takes time. They started on the edges of the conspiracy when they nailed the first guy (Michael Cohen iirc?). They interview each person implicated in the conspiracy to get new intel, then they arrest the next people, get new intel, etc. and work their way in. It seems like they're getting closer to the biggest players, especially since they got Trump's accountant who's got the goods.
One piece said that this is an unprecedented investigation in its scope. It includes criminal behavior not just in the government but also in trump's businesses and investments and political activities. Because of these factors, and because of the enormous gravity of the issues investigated, the legal personnel responsible for it must be meticulous in their work. It will come under intense scrutiny and if they screw it up at all, we may end up with trump going free and doing worse.
So while I'm SUPER IMPATIENT for them to arrest them already, I'm fine with waiting until they've crossed their T's and dotted their I's. It's important they do this right. Then let the heads roll! They just need the time to do it right. All I can say is PLEASE HURRY.
For all the shit people give him, Robert Mueller still brought the heat down on several Trump loyalists. I'd take him over Garland at this point.
The last interview with Mueller, he sounded like my grandfather who was retired for 20 years being like "I can tell you it's such and such illness, but I don't know the modern medicine to treat it anymore."
Times have changed. Mueller already knew he couldn't charge anyone, that there is an explicit mechanism to do that via congressional impeachment. But the simple fact he didn't make it explicitly clear that it was senators failing to do their job that was subverting the will of the people... I believe he failed in upholding his duties as both the Executive Branch check and balance and as an American.
>How are all these shit stains not in prison right now?!?
That is an awfully good question. Why don't you ask the 74 million traitorous morons who voted for trump?
Fucking traitors, the lot of them.
Except for Pence, apparently. I mean yeah, he participated in a lot of tomfoolery in those 4 years, but he stood up when it counted. Change my mind.
He was considering it up until Dan Fucking Quayle told him not to on a call a couple days before the insurrection.
"Let's talk of family values while we sit and watch the slaughter.
Hypothetical abortions on imaginary daughters.
The white folks think they're at the top, ask any proud white male.
A million years of evolution, we get Danny Quayle"
potatoe quality post
Was not expecting late-period Boingo. What a day to be alive!
The song has remained relevant for almost 30 years, (I believe the album was 1994).
Dan Quayle saved democracy. If this doesn't prove that the fabric of reality is coming apart nothing will.
I read an article on the Dan Quayle call. Apparently pence was still vaciliating and even said maybe there was something fishy about the Arizona results they might be able to exploit.
Dan said: “Mike, I live in Arizona. There’s nothing out here.”
This is a fucking hilarious circus if it does not concern the democracy of America.
Is it really that far fetch to think why a sitting general wouldn't get cold feet and literally tell his counterpart in China that we are not going to war despite whatever shit trump might say.
"*Mike, I want you to consider the proud tradition of Vice Presidents who hail from the great State of Indiana.*"
Pence drew exactly one line in the sand and that was at personally overthrowing the US government. He was cool with everything that led up to that point. All 4 years of it.
Pence, for as much of a shit human he is, and has been, did one right thing in his whole shite political life.
“But he stuck it to them gays by taking away their needles!”
Actual quote I heard in Muncie, IN when Pence announced he was ending a needle exchange program during a major HIV outbreak occurring in Southeast Indiana.
Yep, they are working hard to make sure they will be successful in 2022 and 2024. Everything points to them pulling it off in the next two elections.
Redistricting started today! Republicans have power and intend to cement it.
This shit is going to the next General Election. Tiring.
True Banana Republic level shit.
Conspiracy to commit treason.
“"It shows intent, a sophisticated plan, a blueprint to illegally and unconstitutionally overturn and steal the election" by Trump and his team based on false and misleading information and legal arguments, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN.”
But it's CNN so the Republicans won't take it seriously
>**§2384. Seditious conspiracy**
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if
Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots, starting with
Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the Electoral
Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).
2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors,
and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This
would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States,
there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That
means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th
Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been
advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the
electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for
Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior
position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th
Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the
matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the
representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently
control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote.
President Trump is re-elected there as well.
5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon
getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their
separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on
debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining
the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully
argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules
(which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the
state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate
of electors, if they had not already done so.
6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission
– either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side
challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President
of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would
press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable
political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The
fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the
ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.
> The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter.
In that case, say goodbye to ever having a transition of power again. Just absurd.
>say goodbye to ever having a transition of power again.
Yup. That’s the point.
>So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). **That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.**
This is absolutely proof of conspiracy to commit a coup.
This plan would have plunged the country into absolute chaos.
The GOP are the terrorists the GOP has been warning you about.
They had a clear plan. They had people in position to set said plan in motion. They laid the coup out on paper, and yet, as is the norm, Trump fucked it up.
He really didn’t. It was actually a masterful attempt at a legal coup. It was only foiled by the collective consciences of people already pushed to far under Trump.
Had he not fucked up with the pandemic, Epstein, RussiaGate and UkraineGate I’m certain they all just would have ‘gone with it’
So, what you're saying is....Trump fucked it up? Valid point. I concur.
Well, damn. I truly Trumped myself.
So if by their interpretation this was allowed and they did that, future elections would just be mad race to create as many alternate electors as they can coordinate, democracy be damned 🤷♂️
It would be the end of the United States. States would simply refuse to recognize federal authority from the “other” party.
So when are they going to get arrested? Never?
I like the part where Graham called it third grade writing.
What in the actual fuck is it going to take to bring these people to justice?
An act of Congress. 😐
Come on democrats, show us some balls. Put these blatant fucking criminals in motherfucking jail!
If your plan hinges on Democrats havingg some balls, you're going to be in for a bad time.
"It shows intent, a sophisticated plan, a blueprint to illegally and unconstitutionally overturn and steal the election" by Trump and his team based on false and misleading information and legal arguments
This alone is a treasonous act, and shows Trump and his team had premeditated notions of a coup.
Attn: Merrick Garland
What the FUCK are you doing over at DOJ?
They're over there waiting for all this to blow over like "Stop finding memos and shit, jeeeez!!"
This plan always had another problem. Even if this plan got to the house delegations, while Republicans do have a 26-24 state delegation advantage, one of those states is Wyoming with Liz Cheney as the sole representative.
I am not too keen on resting the fate of democracy on a Cheney.
I also very much doubt you'd have anything close to unanimity among House Republicans if the fraudulent nature of the whole thing was out in the open. Cheney wouldn't be the only defector, and they'd end up losing outright and have betrayed the country for nothing. This was all obvious at the time and was part of of why Pence wasn't interested.
There’s also Meijer from Michigan. He’s a Republican but considering he was one of the 10 who voted for Trump’s second impeachment, I think it’s reasonable to see him give Michigan (which is split 7-7) to Joe Biden.
Edit; didn’t notice you might have counted Michigan toward the Democrats even though it’s deadlocked. (If that is what you did)
If it’s deadlocked, then nobody gets the points.
So they literally have written their crimes down, said it out loud, and encouraged it and aided it as “unofficially”as possible and yet all Trump got was banned from Twitter!!
I love our functioning government.
And when are the consequences expected?
It's the GOP, so never.
But this was months ago, so we should totally just forget about it yeah?
1. Declare alternate electors
2. And then a miracle happens
3. Trump wins, yay!
My argument has about the same legal basis for Pence's involvement.
The fascinating thing is the very first line of the document is a lie:
"7 states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the President of the Senate."
No, no they did not. No state sent a dual slate and the entire plan hinges on 7 specific states having done so.
There were individuals in six states going "Nuh unh! We're the electors!" But NO state actually recognized them or sent them to the Senate.
Leading up to January 6th this was my main concern, mainly stemming from an Atlantic article that detailed the concept quite well.
I'm still curious about what their plans were for after January 6. Like, I know these people are morons, but there's no way they thought that everyone would just shrug their shoulders and say "Whelp, I guess Trump won after all." Right? They had to have talked about declaring martial law and maybe arresting Democrat lawmakers.
Guaranfuckingteed. Not even a question. With all the other outrageous tactics they've actually employed, the idea of martial law and arresting the opposition wouldn't even raise eyebrows.
"The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission -- either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court," Eastman wrote.
…and they would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Can’t this memo be used to charge Trump the lawyer and pence with conspiracy?
The federal conspiracy statute is 18 U.S.C. § 371
Six-step plan to start cvil war 2.0
Disbar the lawyer for trying to end the democracy? If the election ended this way, I’m not sure if any other country would have recognized Trump as legitimate (maybe the dictators). Civil war might have followed.
I doubt that. Dems would keep trying to fight by the rules.
Civil War will come from Republicans losing the next election and deciding it’s finally time to kill their liberal neighbors they have hated for so long. They have been threatening it for years. Some of the Jan6 insurrections had “Civil War II” T-shirts.
And it will end six hours later after the fools find liberals will return the favor. No need for tees when you just shut up and do it.
They are ALREADY doing this. The guy that shot a husband and wife cause they voted for Biden.
1. Change results
More evidence that this whole seditious charade was pre-planned and really had nothing to do with challenging the actual vote tallies. Let’s just choose all of the states within a 1% margin and declare that these votes didn’t count.
I said halfway through Trump’s term that he would not accept losing an election but I never imagined the extent he would go to or the extent Republicans go to aid and abet him. One person (Pence or any of the Republican state representatives he tried to cajole) could have thrown us into a continuing constitutional crisis.
It will happen again because it’s apparently now part of the Republican playbook to declare every election fraudulent and place sycophants in key roles to overturn democratic elections. It will happen again soon.
The biggliest gold sharpie.
I was thinking about that Grayden Carter article about Trump, Carter called him a short fingered vulgarian, and for years Trump sent him pictures of his hands from news photos, highlighted in gold sharpie.
Step 1: Wipe your ass with the Constitution (again)
At that point the rest of the steps take care of themselves.
Trump had an actual plan? Wow.
That's the real news.
That lawyers could even think about suggesting this shows what a shitty document the Constitution is.
I am still fairly certain he will win if he runs in 2024. I have no faith in my fellow countrymen to get it right. If there was any truth to America’s system of government or any accountability of wealthy people, he would be rotting in jail were he belongs. America would never tarnish the office by jailing a sitting or former president.
Anyone dismissing this as theoretical should note that the book also reports (relying here on Maddow’s report) Pence explored this option in an call with Dan Quayle who was adamant that Pence did not have this option. So either Pence was under so much pressure he was not able anymore to say no with getting reassurance (best case) or seriously was searching how to justify going along with it (worst case).
It’s a conspiracy to overthrow the government. Involving numerous GOP officials. They should all be put on trial for treason and barred from government at the very least. They hate democracy and everything it stands for.
When and where do the GOP institutionalists account for the subsequent civil war this half-assed coup would engender and long term damage to the economy and thus to the only thing they care about, their wallets.
It’s almost as if they think 60% of the country would be like ‘drats, foiled again’ and continue living on, business as usual.
was it written in crayon?
Arrest this terrorist fuck already.
I guess pretty soon Trump is going to make good on his boast about [shooting someone on 5th Ave](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/23/464129029/donald-trump-i-could-shoot-somebody-and-i-wouldnt-lose-any-voters) just to prove that he can and get away with it.
Remember when Republicans lied to your face and claimed they weren't traitors to the Constitution attempting to overturn elections?
I will never understand how, after Trump lost, the Republican party didn't throw him on his fucking sword.
Not, like, getting him to admit he was wrong, just turning on him entirely.
Can we please get rid of electoral college now
>"You really need to listen to John. He's a respected constitutional scholar. Hear him out," Trump said to Pence at that meeting,
"Respected"? By who? Eastman is the same guy who denies that the 14th amendment gives birthright citizenship, all so he could start a racist birtherism conspiracy against Kamala Harris.
Lawyers not even knowing how our election process works, not a surprise at all that they work for Trump. They should be disbarred.
Could it be any clearer these people were traitors? Yet they face no repurcussions and plan on doing it again, because no one in our government is going to do anything about it. Unbelievable
My God, if this doesn't somehow convict him I really don't know what will.
Does the VP have the power / authority to throw out electors? No. But if a VP did this and threw the Presidential vote to Congress, there is nothing to stop it. There would be a vote and then the Dems would go to the courts. But does any court have the authority to stop the swearing in of the President as voted by Congress? I doubt it. And once Trump took his oath of office, it would be a fait accompli. All that saved American democracy was the fact that VP isn't as evil as Donald Trump.