T O P

Afghanistan's quick unraveling jolts national security officials and threatens to stain Biden's legacy

Afghanistan's quick unraveling jolts national security officials and threatens to stain Biden's legacy

AutoModerator

As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, **any** advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*


[deleted]

[удалено]


CountTheForDown

"There goes the neighborhood".


SmallParade

So here’s the problem. We elected dudes instead of Hillary Clinton. She would have stayed in there. >“If there is one thing supporters of an abrupt US withdrawal from Afghanistan had in common, it’s that they were almost entirely men,” said Karim Sadjadpour, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Afghan and non-Afghan women understood the nature of the Taliban, and the consequences of a US withdrawal, much more viscerally.”


mixplate

The military industrial complex is suffering cash withdrawal. The military contractor gravy train is coming to an end. There was no "good" way to end this, but end it must. Perpetual occupation in a country that doesn't want us doesn't do anyone any favors. We overstayed our welcome so don't be surprised when the door hits us on the way out.


nonamenolastname

Exactly. If 20 years didn't fix it, what makes people think another couple of years would? You can't impose democracy, and people there don't want it.


Bonamia_

Where was CNN when Bush wanted to invade Afghanistan with no plan for what we would do there and how we would get out? Oh that's right, beating the drums of war.


[deleted]

We should have gotten Bin Laden in Tora Bora in late 2001, then, after the Taliban was driven out, declared victory and went home, maybe leaving some advisiors behind to train the Afgan Army and Air Force.


johnnycourage

Having the fortitude to finally get us out of that fucking quagmire rather than kicking the can down the road for another decade is something I’ll view in a positive light.


[deleted]

I agree. The media going crazy, after not even mentioning Afganistan for so long, I also find kind of amusing. I think the MSN now has an opporuntiy to say, "See, we can attack Biden also, we are not "Liberal Media", so they will ride this horse, until they go back to never mentioning Afganistan ever again. The best we can do is take in as many Afgan refugees as we can, and give them a better life.


CakeSprinklesUnicorn

Good luck with the images of human rights massacres of US allies, civilians, and women that will be coming out of Afghanistan over the next month. The UN has reported that the Taliban is currently commuting human rights massacres and killing US allies as they take over major Afghan cities - https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1097482.


FART_POLTERGEIST

The Afghan army had 20 years to get their shit together


OrnamentJones

Thank you very much. Should the US go back in there? How good did it work out the first time? Spoiler alert: very badly. Also, it's not like the US isn't chock full of images of human rights failures. Add it to the pile and move along.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


zombrey

You're the only poster. I wouldn't call it pressing. It is news in that it's happening, but it's been the expectation for years that it would go like this when it did happen.


andytronic

> Good luck with the images of human rights massacres of US allies Like you care about that shit. You just see this as ammo against a democrat pres, and everyone knows it.


CakeSprinklesUnicorn

Ironically, I’m a Democrat who voted for Hilary in 2016, but it seems like the left is quick to brand anyone who disagrees with them as not part of their party. Baseless accusations like these are not the best strategy for the midterms, as you’re basically alienating prospective voters.


Gong42

Sure you are


mixplate

He might be one of those "Third Way" democrats that colludes with Republicans.


[deleted]

Maybe you should trade places with someone who has to live under Taliban rule now. See how positive your light is.


banksy_h8r

Realpolitik hot take: this is a disaster for Afghanistan and a short-term political issue for Biden, but it creates a huge, long-term geopolitical headache for China, Russia, Iran, and Pakistan. (And to a lesser degree India) For 20 years America had its finger in the dam and pressure has been building. Now we’ve yanked our hand away. Neighboring countries that are antagonistic to America may be enjoying watching our failure, but they should know that 6 months from now it’ll be their problem, not ours. 2021 is not 2001. We’re not the only boogieman for radicals to lash out at any more. The other regional powers should recognize how quickly things can change in such a chaotic situation.


[deleted]

You know what I think? The media has not even talked about Afganistan for months or even years, and now is acting like they suddenly discovered that the country exists. Heck, Trump was the one that started withdrawing fron Afganistan, and even made a huge deal with the Taliban, which is one of the reasons why John Bolton quite. I am thinking that we never really did any good there at all the last 20 years, or the country would not be folding so damm fast. I think the media sees this as a way create a Biden scandel, so they will ride this for all it is worth. In several months or a few years, they will go back to not even mentioning Afganistan anymore.


PingPongGetAlong

Just wait until the Taliban turns its gaze to those pretty nukes in Pakistan. Or North to bugger Moscow. Modi wanted India mad a Muslims now he has some to worry about for real. As long as we shove a tracker up the kazoo of every Afghani or adjacent radical there will be no repeat of 9/11. Actively use the intelligence community to make the Taliban other people's problem.


OrnamentJones

Now /this/ is the sort of interesting realpolitik hot take I can get behind and start thinking about.


YetiCrossing

I don't think this is a huge issue for China. The Chinese government is normalizing relations with the Taliban, has secured mineral rights within Afghanistan, and has a huge belt and road strategy involving a stable-ish Afghanistan. This is a *huge* issue for "the West" as yet another democracy (or something representing one) fails. The US is imploding into something else as are a couple EU member nations. Now a fledgling system meant to mimmick our own has fallen apart in a matter of two months.


effhead

>This is a *huge* issue for "the West" as yet another democracy (or something representing one) fails. What? Before the invasion 20 years ago, the country was ruled by the same people who are now taking it back over. It's not like the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan was a bastion of freedom. It's only an issue for the West and that we wasted so many fucking resources for nothing.


Dadrepus

Wrong, China’s will have to explain Ugar repression.


ipmzero

They tried to pull this same crap on Obama. Previous president negotiates withdrawal to occur on Democrats' watch, so everyone blames "weak on defense" Democrats. That garbage may work on Fox News, but it's not going to work here where we are a Google search away from the truth. Next!


InternetArtisan

Afghanistan would have fallen apart no matter what point in time we leave.


[deleted]

I find it intresting also, that the internet has not mentioned afganistan for years, and now suddenly there are a thousand headlines a day, now that we have finally gotten out.


Fit-Forever2033

Stain is a strong word. Nobody blames Nixon for leaving Vietnam.


CakeSprinklesUnicorn

Nixon resigned before the fall of Saigon. People do blame Gerald Ford, who was president at the time, for his complete lack of political leadership in Vietnam.


OrnamentJones

People blame Ford for anything? News to me.


New_Stats

People barely remember that Ford was a president


ElysiumSprouts

Nah, people remember the Saturday night live version of Ford more than the actual guy.


my_Urban_Sombrero

Lol the Christmas Eve one is great.


busted_flush

You cant change generations of corruption without adopting the same measures the Taliban used in their first time at governing. It was harsh. How much more of our tax dollars and loss of American lives do we throw at this when the same conclusion is going to happen even if we stayed another twenty years.


ersatzgiraffe

The main “problem” (among a trillion) is that the US isn’t supporting the people that supported them to their peril for the last 20 years. They should be getting anyone out of Afghanistan that needs it, because we bought this.


OrnamentJones

Anyone who thinks that this is /Biden's/ fault needs to do some rethinking. He's finally eating the hot potato, and that requires merit, not blame. This situation has been a disaster for decades.


[deleted]

And the media is suddenly screaming about Afganistan with all of theese blaring headlines. Is it tragic that the Taliban is going to take over and opress women? Yes, and any that get out, we should help the best that we can, and welcome them to our country with open arms, and give them as good of a life as we can. And my hat is off to those who tried to do the best they could there for twenty years, but it seems like we were not doing much good there.


dwitman

This draw down could have been executed better.


blu545

The American military has a priority to protect America. When the withdrawal from Afghanistan threatens this priority, America has an option to change. Until then, the withdrawal makes financial sense to me. This is pretty much why other countries aren't in there.


ZombiWoof

This war was a stain, we didn't go there to liberate anyone, we went because it was profitable. They were given to tools and knowledge to liberate themselves and they allowed a fundamentalist religious sect take charge again. The only way it will change is from within, all we did was piss off the crazies. Sadly, we're growing ignorant crazies of our own and we should refocus our attention and efforts on them


East_ByGod_Kentucky

> we didn't go there to liberate anyone, we went because it was profitable. We *went* because it was the easiest *political* decision any president had made since Pearl Harbor, and gave Bushy an opportunity to change his image from brush-clearing goofball to "total badass". We invaded *Iraq* because it was profitable.


ZombiWoof

Fed the military industrial complex, secured rights to natural gas and ended up being another fucking quagmire and OBL wasn't even there.


Allemaengel

No it's not. This extra-sticky band-aid needed to be ripped off the hairy arm a long time ago but no President had the balls to get it done. I don't agree with Biden on everything but this had to be done. Good for him - he shouldn't be taking any shit for this as long as we get our allies like interpreters and their families out.


ElysiumSprouts

The anti-Biden's are looking to leverage Afghanistan, but Americans are just sick of the endless war. Enough already.


SewAlone

We weren't "at war" over there anymore and this talking point is exhausting. We were a presence like we are in a multitude of other places on the globe.


CaptainObvious

Yes! This guy gets it. Finally. I can't tell you how many times I have talked to other veterans about their experiences with IEDs, firefights, and kicking in doors on their forward operating deployments in Germany or Japan or Korea. Take that weak ass bullshit somewhere else chump. We were fighting in Afghanistan you fish stick eating waste of skin.


unshavedpubis

CNN has never met a war that they didn't like.


walker1555

I appreciate that Biden isn't falling for the sunk cost fallacy. We failed. And it cost far too much. Very bad investment. Let's not do that again. Rumsfeld is dead and hopefully his democracy-by-bombing approach.


prototype7

It is a terrible situation that was never going to end any other way. The US should have just broken up the Taliban and targeted AL Qaeda's leadership and infrastructure, then we should have left with a promise to come back if they allowed Al Qaeda or any other similar group a safe haven. We spent trillions attempting to change thousands of years of ingrained culture and failed. The army gave up without much of a fight. It is sad, but the US was never going to stay forever and they knew that, so they hid across the borders, planned, prepped and waited. The US would have had to be far more aggressive and rework the whole region to actually make a change


effhead

>they hid across the borders, planned, prepped and waited Where were they exactly, Pakistan? I'm curious what other country(ies) allowed basically a standing army/militia to just hang out within its borders for years. And who's been selling them weapons at the level that the Afghan army just gives up when they see them coming?


prototype7

The whole region was more tribes than nations for thousands of years, and so they were in the marginal regions of surrounding nations with corrupt governments more than happy to stick a thorn in the paw of the US. From reporting, there were major enclaves in Pakistan and Iran. Remember that Osama Bin Laden was found living in a compound in Abbottabad, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan. There were probably enclaves in all the surrounding nations in the tribal lands where the corrupt governments don't venture


hwkns

Biden is grasping the nettle, and it is going to hurt.


Dadrepus

Truth is the Afghans don’t have enough desire to fight for freedom. They would rather live under a suppressive system than die fighting for freedom. We would have been there forever. The failure is NOT ours but Afghanisani military and government.


Flobby_G

It makes me sad how much this sub doesn’t care about this :/


[deleted]

Unfortunately this far left sub treats the Democrats as their favourite sports team.