AOC accuses Chicago prosecutor of ‘lying’ about police killing of 13-year-old Adam Toledo
By - theladynora
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Cook County State’s Attorney Kim Foxx claimed that the prosecutor “failed to fully inform himself before speaking in court.”
“The prosecutor did not ‘make an error.’ He lied,” AOC tweeted...
The fact that his best defense is pleading intentional incompetence says a world.
What's sad is that it will work for ***him****.* I wonder how well I would do in court if I pled intentional incompetence.
It doesn’t work for criminals, and it shouldn’t work for prosecutors. But unfortunately, you are probably right.
>It doesn’t work for criminals, and it shouldn’t work for prosecutors. But unfortunately, you are probably right.
A police officer, criminal prosecutor, apparatchiks of the state, the wealthy:
"I made a mistake. What happened was an accident. What's done is done."
The State: "That's okay, these things happen."
"I made a mistake, I am deeply remorseful of what happened, please, let me make this right."
The State: "We live in a society and you broke the laws of that society. Into the police-carceral pipeline with you!"
Carceral pipeline?! Are you crazy?!
You meant constitutionally legal slavery
It is pretty crazy and not talked about (at all) how the constitution makes a deliberate exception to slave labor when it applies to incarcerated people. With that in mind it isn't hard to understand why private for-profit prisons exist and have an enormous lobby in place. Absolutely disgusting. IIRC a few years ago there were huge prison strikes attempting to bring awareness of this issue to the MSM (good luck) but I haven't seen ANY updates to that story. It just disappeared behind the wall of "news reports" salivating over Trump's latest controversy for clicks. Huge failure of Journalism at best. Massive cleanup operation at worst.
This is a slowly failing state. Number look good on paper (at least the ones being pushed), but results don’t speak for themselves. Either we’re getting taken down from the outside or we’ll burn it down ourselves if changes don’t happen quickly enough.
And it’s not my choice that that happens, but how much longer can you squeeze millions of people?
Look at the insurrection - yes they were lied to and Trump incited it, BUT I guarantee you it’s all about fear. Fear of “the great replacement”, which really means expected continued economic decline for those people voting for Trump. And then not to mention all the people who didn’t vote and those who voted for Biden - WE’RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT. That 0.01% should have no political power AT ALL
Same thing, brother.
Yup fuck this
2018 - 698 per 100,000 incarcerated. 0,7%.
"Breaking the law."
How about we make it not work. That sound like a brilliant idea.
That seems to be the 2021 trend to try to get out of legal problems.
And it's working.
The fact that the bootlickers will say that incompetence is a good defense is fucking bonkers.
"She thought she had her taser, not her gun!" That's not any fucking better!
Makes it a different crime but doesn't absolve her of any guilt. Just it'll be a trial for gross negligence rather than murder
Edit: As someone else noted definitely also manslaughter since that's someone dying doing to someone else's negligence
Intentional incompetence? Is that a real thing? Doesn’t sound any better than lying to me, but I’ve never heard the term so I don’t know if there’s any nuance to it in legal terms.
Ironically, I think certain people find the word choice more professional
It’s the fact that he said “I failed to fully inform myself”, rather than saying that someone had failed to inform him, that displays the intentionality, I.e. “Whoops, I couldn’t be bothered to have the right information”. It’s a euphemism for deliberate neglect.
So he made a legal statement in court without verifying the facts? Just blatantly slandering a dead 13 year old boy in court.
Yes but you see, that boy was tan enough to be very scary to the poor adult cop with professional fire arms training!
*uninironically holds up skin color threat chart from family guy in front of the judge*
And supposedly trained enough to be a police officer.
It's like if Shaggy from scooby doo was dragged from the street and given a fire arm and told "go arrest people". Except he has the fucking sense to not shoot first, ask questions later...
So it's more like if Shaggy was a narcissistic, ignorant bastard that is so stuck up his own ass he can't even see the value of a human life. His is the only one that matters, or worse, only the lives of those like him matter and everyone else is a threat.
These guys aren't being dropped behind the lines of the SS, but for some fucking reason they are stuck in that mentality. That the second they spot someone that isn't like them, it's shoot first, ask questions later.
I hope cop shows will show how fucking dumb these cops are. Even Hitchcock and God damn Scully know better than to shoot kids... And they're about as smart as a goldfish! Having them as the main characters and the smartest of them, would STILL make the show unrealistic...
A 13 year old kid is dead because a cop pissed himself like a baby and acted on instinct instead of thinking for 2 fucking seconds if shooting a kid was justified. And what's worse, his whole fucking cabal covered him. No one spoke up, no one mentioned that there was a cover-up. And THAT is why cops are the single worst "profession" in the whole god damn United States... I've seen animals playing games being more professional than whatever the fuck this shit is.
If there was justice in this world, the guys who covered for him would be trialed as well.
*Adult cop with professional fire arms training should get infinite chances and infinite forgiveness for their mistakes! Untrained scared 13 year old boys deserve no chances and no forgiveness!* --Conservatives
*Oh, except if he's white like Rittenhouse. Then he gets infinite chances and infinite forgiveness!* --Conservatives
Not knowing wtf you’re talking about is what flies in criminal court these days?
Only for cops, not for you.
Same shit, different asshole. They always work together.
AOC's comment is pretty much saying "Bullshit.". That's why I love her. I don't always agree with her, but she will stand there and call it like it is, with a diplomatic way of saying it.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would think that "Failed to fully inform himself..." would be a real excuse. It's all bullshit. "I'm a fucking idiot, didn't do my job, didn't use common sense, and went against everything I've been doing for years, and I fucked up.". Nope. You're lying and covering shit up.
Just seeing the name Kim Foxx again gives me PTSD about that Jussie Smollett clusterfuck.
It's extra fun to consider that without Kim Foxx's extremely lenient policies the 21 year old that handed Adam the gun might not have been out on the street to begin with.
Wow. It's almost like since she fucks up time and time again, we should assume she fucks up time and time again and maybe, just maybe, look at her poor decisions.
So he lied to a court? Isn't that a jailable offense?
Separate from the split-second events of the actual shooting, lying about the situation after the fact is an unambiguous problem. If you freeze frame on the exact right frame you can see something in the kid's hand that we now believe was a gun. But you don't need to slow or freeze frame to clearly see that the kid had his hands visible and empty when the officer fired the shot. There is no basis for "confusion" based on the video, no blurring, no half-way-frame image. The kid's hands were empty and visible when the officer's finger squeezed the trigger to the point that his gun fired.
Ah so as with everyone working for the law at this point, they’re either stupid or criminal. Like it seems the only law that can actually do their jobs are fed lawyers, and they’re just tyrants.
The prosecutor told the judge the kid had a gun in his hand when he was shot. All of us saw the video, and the prosecutor would have seen the video before he said that.
So yes, that prosecutor openly and obviously lied to the judge. Absolutely no question that she is correct.
“A spokesperson for Cook County State’s Attorney Kim Foxx claimed that the prosecutor “failed to fully inform himself before speaking in court.” “
Failed to fully inform himself before speaking in court. So, taking him at his word and applying the best possible interpretation of what he said, this is pretty fucking terrible. And that’s the *best* case scenario, where the prosecutor, rather than intentionally lying to the court, just makes up random shit that, as far as he knows, might be true.
'Failed to fully inform himself'... For court... Christ! Good job he's not a prosecutor or anything. Fucks sake
Makes you wonder how many other cases the prosecutor "failed to fully inform himself of"... Any case this asshole prosecuted should immediately come under review
I have the feeling that we're going to see a number of appeals or lawsuits being opened up over the next few months in relation to this prosecutor
The criminal justice system is one of the worst when it comes to admitting that they were wrong. Prosecutors simply can't accept that they might be wrong, largely as a self defense mechanism. It's such strong reaction (and cultural issue within the system) that you get phenomenon such as "the unindicted co-ejaculator".
It's a real thing, and it's disgusting because it represents the rejection of data *by those who are have the responsibility to be data driven*.
> the unindicted co-ejaculator
You'll wish it was a hilarious auto-correct...
That is a horrific dive into the military criminal system (or is that the _criminal_ military system?).
Prepare to be sad - www.google.com/search?q=unidentified+coejaculator&oq=unidentified+coejaculator
....1996 to 2014. Fucking shit man. That's just depressing as fuck as you said. The fact the prosecutor didn't even have the honor to say "yeah we got the wrong guy, I'm sorry, at least we have the right guy now and we're working to clear the wrong guys name" is just....ugh.
I know life has always been this way. Like this shit isn't new. It's just that it's finally coming to light. But fuck. How do these people live with themselves?
Are the younger generations filled with more empathy and morality or something? It just seems like the vast sum of people in positions of power have sucked from the beginning of time, with some notable exceptions obviously. But even at the local level of government people in the court system and politics act as if they're gods.
It's not just "the younger generations". It's older people. It's people who have pushed their way in seeking power. It's people who have invested in slaves, and are reaping the rewards of being on top, with no one else overseeing their actions, and being able to lie to themselves to believe that they are good at their job, because the alternative is admitting that they are a power hungry, manipulative sack of shit.
It's all generations, but younger people don't normally seek that type of power over others, until life has jaded them, and modified their reason from justice, to selfishness.
I think it takes a certain type of attitude to make it up the ladder in a lot of industries and typically that attitude requires a lack of empathy and morality.
Empathy is a weakness in a society built on competition. We're consistently competing against our peers for anything and everything and those with less empathy typically climb higher as they don't have issue screwing people to better their paths in life. Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are two obvious examples.
Slightly tangential question here, but it’s related to the reopening of cases. What are the grounds for something like that? I know evidence tampering is one, like that forensic chemist who was stealing all the drugs. But what about more nuanced things?
Convictions obtained by individuals found to be of questionable character and illegal/immoral practice, are considered tainted by said.
A bad faith prosecutor will be open to anyone he previously got a conviction on that can get a lawyer to speak up for them.
Seems like having money is still the way to go. Cause of course it is.
Lol, imagine trying to use that excuse on even a high school homework assignment. Yet somehow it's fine to use it as a lawyer in a courtroom
Power is a cheat code.
If he isn't already, he need to become a former prosecutor fast!
Negligence is not a defense.
In fact it's a great way to get disbarred
"Failed to fully inform himself" = "just made it up" = lying.
Lying in court= perjury. Which is a crime.
Only if you’re under oath when you lie is it perjury. Here he’s saying he was stupid because he assumed the video showed the 13 year old had a gun — without bothering to watch the video himself. So who told him the video showed the 13 year old had a gun?
He lied like a trump.
"It's not that I lied, I just didn't know what the fuck I was talking about when I entered sworn testimony that informed a legal decision."
Like, the absolute most generous interpretation of this is still prison. Except it won't be, because if you protect the state with violence or protect the people who protect the state with violence the law doesn't apply to you.
Something like this is going to open the door for all sorta of legal challenges to every case he's touched.
Well the best interpretation is that he just took the officers involved at their word and didn't watch the video. Which would make him incompetent and niave, yet that's not what anyone would believe because its absurd.
I'd argue that If he simply took someone at their word when there was VIDEO evidence then he is complicit and guilty instead of just incompetent. But yeah also incompetent
"What happened guys?"
"Well there was this black kid..."
"OK, lemme stop you there. I have heard enough.... so...
How's Sally and the kids? Have you hit 300 yet? I might see you at the lanes this Friday! Ha-Ha! Ok, great. Nice seeing you again Bobby! OH! By the way...
Ok, great seeing ya! See ya Friiiiday!"
So he’s either a liar or a horrifically bad attorney lol
Why not both?
Both. Both is good.
It means the prosecutor (likely) didn't have time or chose not to review all the evidence prior to the hearing except for a quick conversation with the cop and/or not even that, just reading the report. Not a good excuse when it's a fairly important fact regarding chain of events and possession of the weapon. Impeaches the cop and the report, which becomes grounds for striking the testimony from the record on credibility, which is grounds for dismissal.
If a lawyer can ever, at any point, say they failed to fully inform themselves for a court case having to do with a dead fucking 13-year-old, they should be immediately disbarred, no questions asked
So if I say I have a million dollars, that makes it true, and then the bank has to give me that money right?
A lot of prosecutors are just the cops that went to law school.
The DA is just a cop in a suit
S&S dropped out. So it will be much less widely distributed, at least.
Here's another fucked up one I heard on Democracy now. So they killed the kid, it was bad and all. The mom didn't know where her kid was. She filed a missing persons report and 2 days later they told her what happened.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN TELL THE MOM HER KID DIED
> She filed a missing persons report and 2 days later they told her what happened.
[NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/us/adam-toledo-chicago-police-shooting.html) article gets at that timing a little, he had been 'missing' for several days which the mother had reported to police, but he came back home on the night of March 28. Mother says he went to bed but was gone by the morning.
As others pointed out, he had no ID, wasn't in the system, and police were given falsified info about him. Local news said he was eventually ID'd by that missing persons report.
So you’re telling me a redditor outright lied on the internet to foment outrage? I am outraged.
He didn’t lie he just “failed to full inform himself”
>REY WENCES: Yes. I live in Little Village. This community is pretty close. There’s many groups that just communicate via different text message groups and things like that. So, the night that Adam was murdered, the community already knew that something had happened. Myself, I live in a block a couple of blocks away where he was murdered. And the reaction was instant. Community members already knew that the Chicago Police Department would try to cover this up.
>It is also disgusting, the way in which the city has managed this. Shortly after finding out that Adam had been murdered, we also found out that his mom had gone to the Chicago police district office, District 10, to report that Adam had been missing. And it took two days for his mother to find out that he had been murdered by the Chicago Police Department.
I'm very sorry to the police department, but especially THIS police department, trust but verify. Community members are disputing these details the police are claiming is true.
Law enforcement, generally speaking, has proven themselves to be untrustworthy.
They will lie to you to get you to incriminate yourself and anything you say WILL BE USED against you. Stay tight-lipped and get a lawyer.
Also note the word **Anything**. *Anything* you say will be used *against you.*
This is important; Nothing you say will help you.
Anytime something bad happens the first story they say is always paints them in the best light hoping a video/photo doesn't come out to discredit it
They dont hope, they destroy evidence and threaten witnesses
...and plant "drop guns".
Yeah... fool me once
Heh heh heh already fooled me once can’t fool me again
Is that you, George?
Cops lie and spread misinformation constantly. They peddle so many moral panics about drugs, satanic worship, kidnappings, human trafficking, etc. Helps them get increased funding.
That’s the understatement of the year.
I've noticed that when you go through the system you find out that the whole justice system will lie and they will also work with the local media to spread their lies and if they are caught to be lying no one on that side, media included will issue an apology or fix what was wrong.
Look the cops here have obviously lied about stuff but nothing in your quote says anything that indicates they could have ID’d this kid earlier. Obviously people knew someone had been shot and it’s wholly unsurprising that text messages would discuss a generic shooting, the question is whether the police should have been able to ID Adam earlier. It’s not like 13 year olds have licenses on them. Let’s be angry about the copious amount of shit that they do that we should be angry over, there’s no need to get angry over pure conjecture.
Edit: man some of you really need to read articles, this wasn’t even an active missing persons report - Adam was reported missing on March 26 and when police followed up on March 27 they learned he had returned home. They then went back over it and followed up with the mom AGAIN after thinking “this kid isn’t reported missing anymore, but he still fits the description so maybe we will check with the parents”.
> Brown said investigators found a missing persons report from March 26, in which Adam's mother Elizabeth Toledo had walked into the 10th District at 6:58 p.m. and reported her son missing. Brown said the report was entered into the system at 7:17 p.m. that same day. The following day, a detective contacted her to follow up, at which point Brown said she told detectives that Adam had returned home, so his name was removed from the system tracking active missing persons cases.
Seriously there’s a lot to be angry about but if you’re angry about the delay in IDing Adam then you’re giving away the fact that you haven’t actually read the news about this.
They lied to a judge, what is to say they did not lie about the ID? I also don't see what motive the 21 year old would have had to lie.
You don't snitch. That's the motive.
What 13 year old carries ID?
my son doesn’t have have ID he’s the same age what need is there for them to have it? he’s just a kid
& if he had a school ID, but decided he was going to sneak out to go play Fornite at his buddies house, do you think he'd take his school ID with him? No, absolutely not.
I got a state issued ID at 13 to be able to go on some trips to special locations with the Boy Scouts, but outside of that I think I only knew one other person who had one for another specific reason that I can't recall. But yeah, I would definitely not *expect* a kid that young to have one.
Exactly. Sure, some people carry wallets at 13 with an ID. Its not the norm though. I know 16 year olds with passports because their soccer team went to Europe pre-covid, thats definitely not the norm though.
that’s because he didn’t have identification on him. it took them that long to figure out who he was.
Let's correct the title. AOC didn't accuse anybody. She pointed out how the prosecutor blatantly lied about the kid having a gun
Let's also take into consideration that he did have a gun in his hand 8/10s of a second prior to the shot.
So yeah, she's right he didn't have a gun in his hand, but.... Seriously, c'mon.
Prosecutor should have known the details for sure though, yup.
The police reported that Toledo was shot in an "armed confrontation" with police. That is now a clear lie as at no point did Toledo confront the police. The Officer had a half second to to pull the trigger, but the police leadership had plenty of time to review the video and decided to openly and clearly lie to the public.
Ah but you see - it *was* an armed confrontation. The police were armed, and confronted him… see, an armed confrontation! ^(/s)
I see so much conflicting information. Some people say the boy had a gun and you can see it in the video some say he didn't and you can see it in the video. I really really don't want to watch a 13 year old die but I'm starting to wonder if I have to.
Up to you if you want to watch, but this is the best footage I've found. The kid had a gun prior to being shot.
Wow. Was the 21 year old firing the gun at cars with people in them?? Everything I've seen made it sound like he was firing at empty cars.
They're Latin King gang members allegedly.
You can see the gun but the kid dropped the gun before he was shot. He dropped the gun and raised his hands, which is what the cop asked him to do. It’s a fucked up situation. I don’t think there was anyway the 13 year old was going to make it out alive.
Don’t raise your hands? Dead.
Raise your hands after being asked to raise your hands? Dead.
Like, I get the cop responded to a sudden movement but that sudden movement was exactly what he told the kid to do.
Problem is that the cop didn't see the gun being tossed as the kid turned. All the cop knew was that this kid was turning towards him with a gun in his hand.
If he wanted him to raise his hands slowly maybe he should have said that. I understand heat of the moment but you gotta give the kid a chance. Cops got him square in his sights, bullet proof vest, yet he still went full bore.
I agree 100% and people in here are shaming the kid for throwing the gun several feet away. He just said drop it! The cop didn’t say “drop it and kick over to me.” Kid was 13 he didn’t want to get in trouble and figured it didn’t matter where he tossed the damn gun as long as he couldn’t reach it and his hands were up.
It wasn't the raising his hands, it was that he turned around.
Maybe if these kids wouldn't be hanging around with gangs and shooting guns they would have a better chance at staying alive. Or are we not allowed to say or think that?
It’s dark and the kid clearly has a gun and you can see it from behind, he tossed it as he turned around but that is hidden from the officer. In the video this spans less than a second, it’s easy to take the last frame and judge the encounter but it’s not realistic. I support the outrage against police generally but not all cop shooting are the same and it’s difficult to see the malice here.
CBS cropped the video that was originally tweeted, that has been proven and the full version exists. He has a gun and drops it a split second before he was shot.
They all did. They all stopped the video at the point the gun was fired in order to highlight the fact that Adam was unarmed at that moment, and glossed over the fact that he was armed immediately beforehand and a gun was found right next to him and that he was involved with the shooting of that weapon. It's honestly gross the way the media has been handling this, fanning the flames.
He did. He dropped it behind that fence just as he was turning around and raising his hands.
Edit: [Shown here.](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/videos-show-adam-toledo-13-may-have-dropped-gun-as-he-raised-his-hands-when-cpd-officer-fatally-shot-him/)
[More stills here.](https://www.insider.com/adam-toledo-video-dropping-item-hands-up-shot-2-seconds-2021-4) They show a timeline there, too.
He turns away from the cop and tosses it behind a fence as he turns around and raises his hands. The gun was clearly visible in his hand less than a second before the cop fired.
So the kid thought he was being smart by tossing the gun and putting his hands up.
The cop saw a kid with a gun suddenly turn around and raise his hands.
It's pretty clear in the new video angles that have been found.
I only want to respond that we don't know the cop recognized him as a kid. I don't know how tall he was but there's 13 year olds that are over 5 foot and in the dark chasing someone there's no way to tell how old they are from the back.
> so much conflicting information
Its just people trying to make this situation fit their current views on the matter. Or diagnosing it like a controversial sports call. The comments I am reading here are gross.
Why did the prosecutor lie? Is it because he is a racist who is protecting other racists who murder people?
That, or they are an authority who’s authority is built on the assumed legitimacy of the authorities below them.
>Why did the prosecutor lie?
To win the case, obviously. Because the truth and human life doesn’t matter to them. Only winning.
Gee. I suppose we'll never qwhite know. But let's focus on the more important things like Seth Rich and buttery males and AOC's wardrobe choices instead.
He was black in the case of Breonna Taylor....still (sloppily) tried to cover for the PD. Got called out and still managed to sweep it under the rug.
God bless ‘murica
Prosecutors lie all the time. Like cops, nobody holds them accountable, and unlike cops, there isn't the occasional undeniable video evidence.
Now consider the US's alarmingly high incarceration rate compared to all other countries. Then consider how that compares in scale to Chinese Uiger internment camps.
> there isn't the occasional undeniable video evidence.
That isn't true, they are frequently caught lying in court on camera in front of multiple witnesses. Just no one cares or does anything about it.
The police protect the rich, the rich protect the police and they do that through influence and politics. How many DAs are trying to run for higher offices in the government. The fact that in many/most places(i'm not sure if it's the same all over the US) DAs literally campaign to get the position. In a lot of other countries the DA is just promoted to be the most senior prosecutor and it's not part of the political system in the same way.
by forcing sheriffs and DAs to campaign to get the job you are basically forcing them into politics. It's genius but completely evil. To get such a job you must get the support of higher politicians and unions, etc, so they are already in bed with those people the second they get the job. The entire system is corrupt top to bottom.
It's not accusing it's pointing out. Accusing makes it sound like it might not have happened.
I love the default AOC-concern-face that is used for every article where she is mentioned.
They really need to get a new picture lol. They use the same exact pic in every freaking article mentioning AOC.
The anti-tucker carlson concern face
The difference between "I have no idea what words mean or why there's a TV camera pointing at me," and "I know exactly what's going on right now and I'm immensely disappointed in you."
Prosecutors who lie to protect murderers are accomplices to the murderers. The DOJ needs to get involved because clearly the local systems of justice are in cahoots with the criminal cops. The DOJ needs to charge and arrest not only the criminal cops, but the prosecutors and anyone else involved in covering up the crime.
Prosecutors have too much power in the first place and they work way too closely with the police. The whole system needs to be reformed.
Prosecutors can work with police. But prosecutors shouldn't be asked to investigate and prosecute cops. There needs to be a separate entity that audits and prosecutes the cops. A check on tyranny, if you will
Yes please. These crooked DAs are the **real** problem. Not rogue officers. These crooked, spineless, and incompetent DAs protect and enable bad LEOs. The DAs are the ones that truly need to be brought to justice.
It’s not an accusation. That’s exactly what the prosecutor did.
Truthful and factual accusations are still accusations. The word doesn't imply any degree of known/unknown/true/false.
As someone else pointed out, CBS edited out a small part of the officers body cam. Regardless where you stand on this, this is a major problem itself and I feel it deserves it own post and hopefully gets some attention.
That was CBS’s edited clip.
And here’s the full video. At the 2:04 mark, this split second was cut from CBS. Now again, it doesn’t matter if you believe the cop was in the right, or wrong. It doesn’t matter what you think about the kids intentions with the gun. The fact a major news organization is trying to deceptively edit a clip to push a narrative (what other reason would there be, honestly?) disturbs me quite a bit. This shouldn’t be a controversial stance and they deserve to be called out for it. I was truly shocked when I saw this.
That's messed up for sure
Thanks for posting this.
> As someone else pointed out, CBS edited out a small part of the officers body cam. Regardless where you stand on this, this is a major problem itself and I feel it deserves it own post and hopefully gets some attention.
> That was CBS’s edited clip.
> And here’s the full video. At the 2:04 mark, this split second was cut from CBS. Now again, it doesn’t matter if you believe the cop was in the right, or wrong. It doesn’t matter what you think about the kids intentions with the gun. The fact a major news organization is trying to deceptively edit a clip to push a narrative (what other reason would there be, honestly?) disturbs me quite a bit. This shouldn’t be a controversial stance and they deserve to be called out for it. I was truly shocked when I saw this.
Holy shit. Did they really edit out the part where the guy drew a gun and threw it in the same motion that he was raising his hands?
That half second cut where they spliced out the drawing motion is crazy manipulative.
>Holy shit. Did they really edit out the part where the guy drew a gun and threw it in the same motion that he was raising his hands?
>That half second cut where they spliced out the drawing motion is crazy manipulative.
The coverage also didn't cover the video showing the two firing off the gun that prompted the police response or the rest of the body cam video that shows the officer calling for a med kit and trying to provide medical attention, as well as locating the gun behind the fence, and the video from the back side showing the gun being thrown.
They clearly wanted the first impression to be police shoot unarmed kid with his hands up, without any of the additional information that the officer had that may inform their decision.
I just don't get WHY. What good comes from causing mass unrest? They'll get their ratings and money regardless of manipulation.
I just don't understand why CBS would do this. I'm used to defending the media from right wingers but this is one of the worst cases of media manipulation I've ever seen and is indefensible.
And that's not even getting into the fact that they decided to pause the video right when he puts his hands up to allegedly spare us from the graphic nature of the scene. Wonder why they didn't stop the video less than one second earlier when he was holding a gun.
In fact I think all the major networks showed this edited version. I thought it odd that the body cam didn't really show Adam in that critical period of time, that it was so far to one side. And then showing a freeze frame when the shot is fired to highlight the fact that he didn't have a gun in his hand, glossing over the fact that he did just milliseconds prior.
ABC even claimed Roman, the guy in the brown coat that is shoved down in the video was a "bystander", when he was in fact the shooter. Either absurdly incompetent or something more sinister.
What is the root job of the media, or CBS in this case? To make money. It's perfectly understandable why they would do this.
At first it looked like they did it on purpose but I'm not sure if they were just trying to keep it to a square aspect ratio for twitter or something which caused the missing scene. It doesn't look like they skipped any frames, just that since they pillarboxed it for twitter they cut important shit out.
Damn, is it really that hard to say "he was in possession of a loaded firearm moments before he was shot" instead? There goes your credibility.
"...when he was shot." - if you take these words to mean the incident as a whole during which he was shot, the evening in question, the time period of the police response/trouble call, the prosecutor made a true statement.
...If you take these words to mean (as many if not most media outlets do) the actual millisecond in which the bullet travelled out of the muzzle of the gun, into and probably through his body, then it's a false statement. In that case, without taking into account any sort of reaction time needed for the cop, then the cop shot an unarmed black kid and OUTRAGE OUTRAGE RACISM OUTRAGE.
The takeaway here is that the cop did what he was trained to do, and media, incl. I'm very sorry to say, the AP News https://i.imgur.com/LxmJGbL.jpg - will parse the information for maximum outrage and emotional impact, getting clickthroughs and engagement and advertising money at the expense of any easy target like a police or law enf./justice system authority figure. Hard targets would be the family, the gang involved, the neighbourhood, the local education system, the historical redlining, the local culture, the failed drug wars, the cartels and distribution channels, the NRA, the gun manufacturers, a polarised political system, the "well regulated militias" and the people that [wrote the US Constitution intending it to work well with muskets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM3vlPPNFVM).
why is lying in quotes
To show that they are directly quoting AOC at this point and not summarizing what she said as calling him a liar when she more skirted around the direct accusation but didn't directly call him a liar.
Because it's a quote.
every single article is about adam being killed at this point, i've waded through a few articles trying , but what led up to that happening i guess is what i was trying to find. i'm not looking for an excuse for the officer or anything. just wondering what he was doing with the gun in the first place?
>Police were responding to reports of shots fired in the mostly Latino Little Village neighborhood on the city’s southwest side. They said the boy had a handgun on him a split-second before the fatal shooting and apparently tossed it to the ground.
so they dont even know if he was firing shots or had jack shit to do with it.
> “At approximately 2:36 a.m.,” he said, “ShotSpotter detected eight gunshots” at a particular location in Little Village. ShotSpotter, he explained, “is a gun detection system that operates through a series of sensors to identify potential gunshots” and “alerts officers in real time to the location of gunfire.”
And subsequent investigation revealed the 21 year old that was with was the one that fired the shots
>Seconds later, he appears to slam into a person walking in the alley but continues his pursuit. (The man was later identified as Ruben Roman, who police say fired the gun that called officers to the scene in the first place.)
I would read the Intercept article as it investigates how the deployment of tech such as ShotSpotter sends officers into adrenaline-saturated situations where poor outcomes tend to be the result.
Wait the guy he ran into and shoved to the ground in the video was the person who ACTUALLY fired the shots?
So what, older guy makes the shots, gives the kid the gun and tells him to run, kid gets shot?
Because that's what it sounds like, and kids are used all the time for shit like that.
In another thread, the explanation I saw was Roman was the shooter, but handed the gun to Toledo because he (Roman) already had a record of gun related criminal activity. In the video, Toledo can be seen with the gun in his hand and behind his back about half a second before the picture in this article was taken. When the officer told him to show his hands, he tossed the gun behind the fence as he raised his hands, so the officer could not tell if he was raising his hand to comply or raising his hand with the weapon still in it.
Gun in hand - https://imgur.com/iQWoSSj
Link to bodycam, gun that was thrown behind the fence at 5:34 - https://vimeo.com/536331629#t=118s
He was with a 21 year old Latin Kings member. He himself was probably caught up in the gang life and looked up to the older guy. Older guy fired off shots then handed the gun to the kid and told him to run because he thought if the kid gets caught he just goes to juvie.
Kid ran and as he puts up his hands he throws the gun behind the fence. The cop shot him right as his hands go up and you see him clearly unarmed. He probably made the split second decision to shoot right when he sees the gun last but before the arms actually go up.
Cop probably should have hesitated to shoot just because the kid was so young but it's hard to really say it's a bad shot when the alternative is potentially letting some fully pull up on you with their weapon because you hesitated. Cop made a decision and stuck with it but I think he may not have realized how young the kid was until after he already shot him.
Watching all the angles, there’s no way to know that when the kid stopped to rummage through his pockets, he was tossing the gun away and not pulling it out to shoot. This one’s hard for me.
[This video](https://www.tmz.com/2021/04/16/adam-toledo-enhanced-video-chicago-police-shooting-body-cam-13-year-old-killed/) seems to show that he did have a gun in his hand and threw it at the exact same time he was turning around. less than 1 second from visible gun in hand to no gun in hand as he is turning towards the officer. A still frame of the boy without the gun in his hand does not tell the story as it happened. It is tragic. But please, no matter how you feel about it, be factual about the circumstances.
Ya I thought it was straight up murder before I saw this video, but there is definitely a grey area here, in my view, after seeing this.
I saw the still frame and was like, for fucks sake, he's got his hands up! But you watch the video with context and it's a very different story.
It's definitely more complicated than shooting an unarmed person, but it sounds like the officer tells the guy to drop the gun, which he does, and he puts his hands up, empty, and gets shot.
Why did the cop have the flashlight flashing so quiclly like that?
It’s the strobe feature, most likely.
I don't know how I would react in the same situation where the child had a gun a split-second before, but that's one of the reasons I wouldn't be a cop. We need people who *can* react appropriately in those split seconds without deadly force unless absolutely unavoidable.
That and we need to completely overhaul how we train cops. Cops are trained with the idea that if they don't act fast and shoot, they will be shot and killed instead. They are constantly being lectured and trained as if the world is out to kill them and their only defense is to shoot first and ask questions later. Occasionally a reporter will go through police training for a day and every scenario ends with "the guy was dangerous and because you didn't shoot you're dead."
Yeah I think it would be much easier to approach policing with a "it's OK if they get away" attitude. Especially as police have body cameras, cameras are on street corners, and we know license plates. Someone runs and gets away, who cares? So you got away. Well, you need to go home at some point and if you don't turn yourself in charges go up. Why are we chasing people down for shit we can't prove or is such a non issue (expired tags, broken turn lights, etc...) and forcing them into these fight or flight kill or be killed scenarios?
This is how many states deal with motorcycles. It’s extremely easy to run from police on a bike that does 0-60 in 3 seconds and can hit 180mph+ just as fast, and can lane split and fit into small gaps, being chased by a a slow ass boxy SUV.
They just let them go, pull the dash cam, run the plates, at wait at their house. Nobody had to die.
They were responding to an active shooter call. You don’t let someone firing a gun out in the open go
Another important bit is community involvement and integration. Japan has mini police stations everywhere and officers regularly walk door to door checking in on the neighborhood and being friendly with people. It probably wouldn't fly here because the culture here is so privacy-forward and untrustworthy that an officer knocking on your door regularly would be alarming, but I think that would change over time. Japan's police force isn't perfect, but their training, culture, and general attitude towards their work is very conducive to stopping real crime while keeping people safe and not shooting each other. 2 people killed by police shooting in all of 2018, one of which was another police officer, as opposed to over a thousand in the US in 2019.
it's even worse than that sometimes. There are some precincts that use targets of literal children or pregnant women with guns so they can train officers to not even flinch and just start blasting if they ever encounter that. there was one officer that admitted to using pictures of his own children as targets so he can train his brain to not even think of those targets as kids and to just shoot.
That last part is absolutely crazy. Do you have a source for it? I would like to read a bit more into it to see what else they do and what the officer's thoughts were.
Well if you suspect he has a gun and you would shoot him if he raises his hands, you could order him to do something other than raise his hands.
Because I mean, why order him to raise his hands if you’re going to shoot him regardless of whether his hands are empty or not?
The problem was that he whipped around and then raised his hands. To the cop it must have looked like he was trying to fire a weapon.
I totally agree, this tragedy happened because Toledo misunderstood what he should have done. But all this happened in a few seconds, I'm not really sure if longer & more specific instructions would have helped or made things worse. Either way it's one area of policing that desperately needs attention, this is not the first death caused by misunderstood police commands.
This is kind of bullshit. If you watch the video, the kid did have a gun in his hand a split second before he was shot. He tossed the gun but he was trying to hide it at the same time so it wasn’t clear from the perspective of the cop that he dropped it. It’s a damn shame but this wasn’t a malicious murder. I’ll try to explain it better.
The kid is running from the cop down an alley with a gun. The cop is chasing him as the kid reaches a gap in the fence which would probably take him into someones back yard. The kid pauses for a second with his back still facing the cop. Cop can’t see how young the kid is. So the kid is standing there in the gap, his left shoulder leaning on the side of the fence. The fence is made of wooden planks. You can’t see through it like a wire fence. While the kids back is facing the cop, you can see the gun in right hand. The kid then turns around really fast and tossed the gun behind the fence as he turning. So it’s totally misleading to simply say he didn’t have a gun. The cop couldn’t see that he tossed it because the fence so it’s totally understandable that he thought the still had the gun.
Sure, the prosecutor should have been more clear but what happened wasn’t a cold blooded killing. Maybe the cop could have given the kid different orders but I doubt anyone knows what it feels like to be in the cops shoes. He knows he has a gun, the kid spins, and in that moment, you’re thinking it’s him or me.
No doubt, law enforcement is totally fucked in this country. But the issue shouldn’t be muddied with unfortunate situations like this one.
I actually looked a lot like this kid when I was that age. So did a lot of my family. And I’ve done something very similar when I was young and drinking beer in parks. Cops would come and i would trying to toss it as if they wouldn’t know it was mine. It breaks my heart. The kid didn’t mean to harm the cop but it sure hell looked like he might have.
Admittedly I’m basing this statement on a video that I honestly did not vet - it’s not as b&w as a lot of the other examples. According to the one I saw which slowed down the video with arrows highlighting the action, the kid did appear to have something and threw it away within the split second of the warning and the shot firing.
My bigger concern is that split second warning and reaction by the cop.
Also wtf is a 13 year old doing outside at 2:30AM? Victim blaming? A little but doesn’t warrant an execution by a cop.
I’m not defending the cop. I’m a just sharing more info in case you missed it. The cops have lied too many times in the past to be trusted.
The kid had the gun except for the half a second before he was shot. The officer saw it in his right hand before Adam threw it behind the fence and rapidly turned to face the officer.
This one isn’t as clear cut to me as so many others. I think the age is clouding the arguments. He was armed. The video is so fast paced and he whips around pretty fast. — With that said, shouldn’t there be like rules of engagement or something? Seems like so many of these shootings are because the cops are operating out of fear first and foremost. They act like every perp is a fucking sharpshooter that is going to headshot them.
I actually agree that the prosecutor did not inform themselves and didn’t purposely lie. Which is WAY worse. As a prosecutor if you fail to take your case seriously and go before a judge and make statements without knowledge you are committing huge errors not simply bending the case your way. People lie in court all the time, but coming in without knowledge of the case is way worse.
Funny how experts even on CNN agree that there was no way for the cop to know I that split second of the kid turning around if he still had then gun, the he did have, when he was shot. It’s tragic, it’s tragic a 13yr old kid is hanging with a known gang member at what 3am. Great parenting?
Why do we unequivocally always place tremendous weight on every statement she makes again? Seriously — can someone clue me in.
She is an ignorant douchebag, the 13 yr old kid and his 21 year old friend were firing the gun at a car prior to the cop showing up. The cop had a split second to react. What the hell is a 13 yr old kid doing outside in a Tuesday night at 2:30 am
I'm confused, isn't a prosecutor supposed to be prosecuting the criminal element in the case?
Isn't the defense supposed to be the one trying to validate and clear the criminal.
Since a 13 year old child was gunned down by a trigger happy cop, shouldn't it be the cop who is the one defending himself as he is in fact the murderer?
The video footage says otherwise.
Chicago is a wild place. I would never want to be a cop there. Unfortunately these kids are introduced to the streets at a VERY young age. They had a 13 year old girl running around shooting at opposing gangs before she herself was unfortunately killed.
A few years back, a 15 year old boy was killed. He went by the name tooka. To this day his name is used in rap songs and disrespected. You’d imagine he was some big time gang banger. But the reality is he was just a poor kid with no guidance or direction.
Unless you actually live there, none of us can fully understand what it’s like in those neighborhoods. It’s sad because this poor kid was a product of his environment. I doubt he’d be running around with a gun at 2:30 in the morning if he grew up in some suburb in Chicago.