It starts with having fewer people who aren't prepared to be parents become parents. The next step is having a robust safety net in place for people/families who fall through the cracks or otherwise run into trouble.
But that costs money and Americans largely don't want to pay taxes, so ...
This. Free, widely accessible birth control is significantly cheaper on the taxpayer than the potential 18+ years of public assistance that can result from an unplanned pregnancy. I never understood why conservatives opposed expanding birth control availability.
In the 1960s Republicans and Democrats were both for "family planning" which included easy and cheap access to birth control, and in 1972 even 68% of Republicans were pro-choice. ([Source](https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/02/america-used-to-agree-on-public-funding-for-family-planning-what-happened.html))
That gradually changed after Republicans realized they could gain significant political power by teaming up with anti-abortion advocates and spreading the cause to religious evangelicals who were mostly Democrats. Many evangelicals were already furious because the gov. was pressuring them to desegregate their private tax-free schools and Republican strategists used that anger as a wedge to get them mad about abortion as well. And they used that fury to turn them against Democrats. ([another source](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/))
Gradually more Republicans got-in-line and became anti-abortion and birth control got lumped in with abortion as an 'evil'.
Highly recommend the FX show from a few years ago Mrs America. It documents this exact shift and how the modern/moderate Republican Party sold itself out for them Bible Belt votes.
Conservatives don't see the hypocrisy in banning abortion AND cutting social services that could give that child forced into existence a halfway decent life
social services do not help children anyway. they will still be neglected. i dont know a single actual poor person in this city with children who does not get free day care year round, enough food stamps that they wind up selling the extras, and free formula to where they do the same (sell it). i'll prob get downvoted but it is what it is. you can give a shitty neglectful parent EVERYTHING and their child will still be dirty, hungry and abused. also abortion has not been "cut" in this city. anyone who wants one could have gotten one so what's the excuse?
>I never understood why conservatives opposed expanding birth control availability.
Because conservative women would be the population who actually take advantage of it.
Birth control is widely available in Philadelphia though and largely unused.
Yup! It's a feature not a bug. It's not a coincidence that they're now pushing to loosen child labor laws as well.
Can't build a billion dollar fortune without exploiting cheap labor!
I feel like we love paying taxes, we pay sales tax, state tax, local tax, federal tax, tolls, property tax if you own a house. what other tax should we pay to be forced to care for people who don’t know how to raise kids?
A) we pay far less in taxes than other western nations -- and as a result, we get far less for our tax dollars.
B) You pay for those mistakes one way or another. The smart play is to use tax money to prevent/mitigate those problems. Or you can pay through societal decay. We've chosen the latter.
government needs to be accountable for how they spend tax money. They aren’t right now, seeing as we are 31 trillion in debt and just decided to agree to spend more, without cutting Military spending. It’s obvious to me that the military really controls the budget so I doubt they care about the plight of poor Philadelphians. Starting to change that would be a good start.
2nd thing would be ending subsidies for things that you can profit on. Ie some brand new somewhat proven energy technology is a perfect thing to subsidize. Whereas electric cars, oil and gas etc are the worst things to subsidize as they are proven technologies with profit motive competition. There’s the 2nd thing we can get some more money off the table for
3rd would be tax loopholes. We don’t need to tax into oblivion, why not end loopholes for the rich and find a way to do that? Amnesty for loopholes with a flat tax is an idea? There’s three things to start
Spending needs to be tied to outcomes. If we don't get the outcomes we need, the funding is pulled to be spent on something valuable. We NEVER do this.
We also pay taxes of the wrong stuff, a fleet of nuke powered carriers an endless war on drugs cool, fixing broken social support programs, education making sure folks can eat etc nah
Fun fact: At my son's daycare (which paid above average wages and offered health benefits to even part time employees) several of the staffers had their own children enrolled, and ALL of them made so little that they qualified for govt subsidies to cover something like 80% of the cost. And that was after they got a staff discount.
So consider how much parents pay for child care and how little of that goes to the people who actually spend their days cleaning up bodily fluids with a smile on their faces and manage to stay cheerful when caring for multiple infants/toddlers at a time.
>It starts with having fewer people who aren't prepared to be parents become parents. The next step is having a robust safety net in place for people/families who fall through the cracks or otherwise run into trouble.
Ok, but what if- hear me out, here- we enact policies that encourage the exact opposite?
The problem is the same crowd of anti- tax people tend to be anti sex-Ed, and anti birth control, to say nothing of abortion. If we could get that stuff heavily funded it would cost peanuts compared to what we’ve got today.
When dads in jail and mom has to work, who is there to raise the child. Philly’s incarceration rate is one of the reasons why we have this issue. Most people in there are not in there because they did something violent. Many were caught with drugs or couldn’t afford to pay a fine.
Your logic doesn’t matter. We are not talking about smart people first of all. Secondly, there should be buckets of free condoms at every high school, the pill should be free and so should the 5 year implant thing (forgot the name). There should be a damn kiosk at every block party to give those out. Happy to have my taxes cover that but the GOP and crazy Christian right would never let it happen.
This is how they do it in colleges and it works. Free birth control. Dorms practically (and sometimes literally) throw condoms at you. Every time you show up at student health they check if you’re pregnant or have STDs. It felt patronizing when I was 19 but hey, I never got pregnant or an STD so I’m glad we had the access we did. (I went to Temple). Teens are gonna have sex too, let’s make sure it’s safe!
Sex Ed is good, birth control is good. And pro choice is good. But again; playing devils advocate, why should people who don’t use birth control or need abortions have to pay for other peoples birth control and abortions.
If you are being strictly self interested : because paying for those things is cheaper than doing nothing. One way or another you pay for those unwanted kids
Why should my tax dollars pay for cancer research? *I* don't have cancer.
Why should my tax dollars pay for schools? *I* don't have kids.
Why should my tax dollars pay for mental healthcare? *I* don't have a debilitating mental illness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go live in the woods if you don't want to be part of a society.
And "some chick having 6 kids by 5 baby daddies" is definitely the only type of problem people can have. It's certainly the case that no one gets sick, injured, has a mental health crisis, loses a job, or just makes a poor life decision.
And the kids born into other people's mistakes don't deserve any help either, obvs.
Your empathy is staggering.
First and foremost, there's a biological urge that is stronger in some people than others that can override good judgement.
Second, people are scared to lose what they have. Like some people get money and then are paranoid that they are gonna lose it and so they keep acting like they're broke. People feel the same way about relationships and they see children as a way to anchor a relationship.
Also, some people get raped or use birth control that fails. A huge, HUGE portion of babies in this country are unplanned. And that number is about to skyrocket since we're getting rid of abortion in most states.
It's pretty damn difficult to survive as a single adult with no children if you didn't start out privileged. A lot of parents *do* care a lot about their kids but parenting takes a ton of time and energy and patience... which is hard to come by when you need multiple jobs to just barely keep a roof over your head.
It was meant to say its that it's very challenging even as a single adult with no children to try to survive in this economy/society so its easy to understand how parents could struggle. Especially if they've been doing it alone for years. I don't think we need to jump straight to parents don't care about their kids. A lot of parents have never experienced healthy parenting so how would they know better?
I'm off to make dinner. Enjoy the discourse
I agree that life is difficult when one doesn’t have means, and worse if you have children and are a single parent. About 40% of folks in Philly are functionally illiterate. If one is poor, can’t read, don’t have any skills, it’s going to be really hard to raise your child in a city in the USA.
Not questioning your source, but could you provide a link to the article on functional illiteracy? Just interested to read. This seems so shocking given the population size. Thank you!
It's true. I used to volunteer with a literacy program and that's roughly the number we were using back then.
Remember, functionally illiterate doesn't mean they can't read anything -- that number is tiny. But far too many adults in this city can't read well enough to, say, fill out an employment contract, or understand the training materials they're given when they start a job. And they certainly can't help their kids who are older than 8 with their homework.
Not op but I was also interested and found this from 2019
https://billypenn.com/2019/04/29/nearly-a-quarter-of-philly-adults-cant-read-but-they-still-vote/
In the article it links to a gov website with data that seems pretty old.
The thing is, has the literacy gotten better or worse? I’m inclined to think that they haven’t tested or recorded anything or they have and it’s worse. When you are successful you put it out there. With COVID, kids lost 1-2 years of school. For children at least, it’s worse.
I investigated this when I first moved to Philly about 15 years ago. The stats were readily available then through the Center for Literacy which I contacted and considered volunteering at. That organization no longer exists and merged with some others.
I googled today, and links that lead to any documentation are broken, in the articles I looked at. The rate of illiteracy (can’t read at all) is 13% in the state of PA, according to govt. stats. This article that comes up at the top of the search is 52% functionally illiterate in Philly. As someone else said, that doesn’t mean can’t read at all, but their reading level is so low, like grade school, that they struggle with tasks that we encounter every day.
[https://www.achieve-now.com/poverty-cycle#:\~:text=52%25%20of%20Philadelphia%27s%20adults%20are,%2D%20to%20eighth%2Dgrade%20level](https://www.achieve-now.com/poverty-cycle#:~:text=52%25%20of%20Philadelphia%27s%20adults%20are,%2D%20to%20eighth%2Dgrade%20level).
[https://www.education.pa.gov/Teachers%20-%20Administrators/Curriculum/ELA/Pages/Infographics.aspx](https://www.education.pa.gov/Teachers%20-%20Administrators/Curriculum/ELA/Pages/Infographics.aspx)
Yeah this comment makes no sense. It is infinitely harder to live a life with children regardless of status. Some people aren’t meant to have kids no matter their financial standing, simple as that. Sorry.
Maybe they died. Maybe life happens and it doesn't really matter how they ended up in the situation they're in, still makes sense to give families the support they need to raise decent human beings.
There’s always the option of like…not having kids that you can’t afford.
I get that people are gonna fuck regardless but you can use protection, have an abortion, or put the baby up for adoption. There are choices here.
Hearing people who are middle class talk about this like they’re all extra careful is really exhausting. Poor people aren’t all trying to have kids on purpose they are poorly educated and birth control/abortions are expensive. Many of them are also vaguely religious.
Rich & Middle Class people fuck up too but we’ve got Plan Bs, IUDs, Birth Control Pills & abortions for worse case scenario.
Let’s not pretend everyone is out here practicing safe sex all the time.
Also, it's possible to have a kid when you can afford it and then suffer an economic setback.
A friend of mine is a middle class, college-educated, white lady. She and her husband had good, white-collar jobs. She got laid off, his business took a hit during the recession, they ended up getting divorced, underwater on the house when they sold it and she and her kids were on food stamps and CHIP within months. (She climbed out of the hole eventually, but it took time.)
People have an idea of what people on welfare look like and it's rarely all that accurate.
There are people out there who literally can't afford the $200 for an abortion, don't have transportation, or can't afford to take off work for the procedure and recovery. Sounds crazy but it's real. Had to remind an old gf that the only difference between her and the "hoodrat baby mamas" she looked down on was a bit of luck and safety nets.
(Not trying to be argumentative, truly a good will reply), I generally agree with your comment. But this comment also makes it seem as though people don’t have any access to condoms or birth control, which isn’t true. I 100% agree it is easier for middle + class to have access, and that people are poorly educated— but there has to be some level of individual responsibility involved in people’s decisions. I totally agree middle + class people are just as irresponsible, but have options. But the implication that lower class individuals have zero choices in their reproductive health isn’t entirely accurate. (IMO)
100% but these comments suggest a level of irresponsibility amongst the poor that is significantly higher and I don’t think that’s the case. We don’t talk about all the broke people not having kids and we don’t know about all the bullshit middle class and rich people are able to worm themselves out of post-mistake. The large difference in child rearing is largely due to socioeconomic chance and a lot of the people complaining about people’s bad life choices would be in the exact same situations if it weren’t for luck of the draw.
Just because you’re poor doesn’t mean you automatically get Medicaid. You have to apply, which is difficult if you don’t know how to access or fill out the forms. You also have to qualify for it, which isn’t always easy. And plenty of people in this city have no connection to a doctor or health system to help them get signed up.
There’s also a huge problem in this state with people who don’t even have ID or a way to get it because of life circumstances (parents lost their docs, they grew up in the foster system and don’t even know who their parents are, etc.).
Then there are the potential health risks of birth control that make people hesitant or sometimes unable to use it (and plenty of dudes who are just assholes and refuse to use condoms). Also religious stigma against it. Abuse happens. And even birth control can fail.
I’m not saying you’re wrong that it would be nice if more people used birth control, but it’s very easy for middle class people to sit on their high horse and have no idea how difficult it can be for people to get help.
So you argument is just more excuses for people not taking responsibility for themselves, their reproduction and their kids. If I could get free healthcare I would jump through whatever hoops I needed to get it. Just saying “this is too hard so I’ll just bring a child into this world” is exactly the mentality that brings children into the world who then don’t go to school and do the same when they are 18. At some point people have to be held responsible for their own well being.
Assuming the worst of people (like you’re doing) is exactly why there are so many hoops in place for these programs. If this society really wanted to help these people, they wouldn’t make it so damn difficult to get help in the first place.
Accessing any social service in this country is a nightmare, even if you have help half the time. But I’m guessing you’ve never had to do it or known someone who did.
Is any of that going to be easier with a child? At some point you have to accept that people need to be responsible for themselves and their actions. You are making a million excuses but the reality is people need to put on their big boy/ girl pants and figure it the fuck out and take responsibility for obtaining the things they need. It’s hard for everyone. Do you think I want to deal with obtaining and paying for my insurance, looking for doctors that accept it, paying massive copays,waiting months to see specialists? Fuck no. Should it be that difficult to obtain care? Also fuck no. But I do it because accepting responsibility for your own circumstances is what being a responsible adult is. Just like if you procreate you have to be a responsible adult and at least to the minimum like make sure your kid gets to school.
They think babies are cute, so they want one. It's gets harder as they get older and that's when they realize what they have gotten themselves into and just don't care. So they throw them to the streets to fend for themselves. No amount of safety net will really help the apathy towards older children problem.
i imagine that a big part of it is young people looking for purpose. they don't feel like they are doing anything significant and having a child is a way to give their life meaning. i have no evidence to support this, just my thoughts on it.
Fine/jail them so heavily that they don’t think twice about it.
Break curfew? $1000 fine to the parents. Wage garnishment if they refuse to pay.
Kid not going to school? Big fine.
Plus, garnishing the wages of someone who works 20 hours a week at McD's is going to take approx three billion years to pay back these hefty fines.
Other than that it's a great idea though,
Sorry, dude, you’re not nearly unhinged enough. Gonna need you to threaten to nuke entire swaths of North Philly unless the attendance rates skyrocket.
Does Philly have a truancy court? I’m from NC and I interned with a court system that had it one summer. Basically if the kid has X amount of unexcused absences, the parents get a summons. They speak with the judge about why the kid is always absent and get matched with a social worker to work through the issues and they come back in 90 days or something and if attendance hasn’t improved, they’re either fined or go to jail.
A lot of it is definitely down to lazy parenting and not wanting to get up to take the kid to school or make sure they’re on the bus, but a good bit is also just socioeconomic stuff. Single mom who works first shift so isn’t home for the kids going to school and leaves an older sibling in charge and they don’t bother about getting the younger kids ready and on the bus. Disabled grandmother who has custody of her grandkids and isn’t able to get the teenagers to go to school without a fight so just chooses not to fight them on it. The car is in the shop or they can’t afford one and have to take public transit, and it’s such a hassle that going to school just sometimes doesn’t happen.
> but a good bit is also just socioeconomic stuff.
Ding ding ding. I wonder if there was some sort of jarring economic dislocation recently, that disproportionately impacted poor families?
In 1990's I lived in Orlando, Fl for 10 years. At one point the local paper did a survey of the the three high schools in the tri-county area on their absentee and dropout rates. The average dropout rate was 50% and the same for the absentee rate. I worked with locals who talked about how everyone they knew in high school had dropped out by graduation. And guess what, there was no such thing as Covid.
When I was in ninth grade in Philly public school…a long time ago…we had an assembly where the principal said, and I shit you not, “Take a look to your right; take a look to your left. At least one of the people next to you will probably not be graduating with you in four years.” Real inspiring stuff.
People rise (or fall) to the expectations you set for them.
If I were a 10th grader who reads at a 3rd grade level I would probably not feel like school is the place for me. Teachers push students to do grade level work they can’t do in a class of 36 kids with a range of trauma induced emotional issues that make everyone feel unsafe, in a building that is probably very unhealthy and may not have enough food for kids on a daily basis. If I’m a kid who reads in grade level and my teachers are so busy dealing with the kids who are causing problems, I might feel like school isn’t the place for me, either, but the good special admits or a charter might not take kids from my zip code in their “lottery”.
As a teacher I speak with a lot of hard working and present parents. Kids are just checked out. They feel very disconnected from everyone and everything and if school is not immediately relevant or doable, they just don’t want to participate and it’s worse for the kids who are the most needy academically, socially, emotionally.
The kids are not psychologically immune to what’s going on in the world and it’s heartbreaking. Even the troublemakers in school all have a story. It’s really hard to put down exactly what the cause is because it’s a vicious circle. Really what it comes down to is the level of desperation we’re all feeling and the lack of concern the government has for our families and children. Inflation is man made and corporations/politicians want to see everyone in poverty. Poverty causes desperation. Desperation causes crime. Now compound that into generations of this cycle, you’ve now got a population of people who have lost the will to care, have turned to drugs and alcohol, who’ve given up on being an upstanding member of the community and turned to crime because that’s the way to make money to survive (or drugs).
And you know who’s suffering the most? These kids. Schools are being defunded so they can’t provide a clean and safe environment that’s meant to promote a learning environment, social media is ruining the socialization that’s imperative to a child’s development, violence is causing schools to become unsafe, etc. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to desperation, and this has been compounding for decades now.
I don't know if corporations or politicians want to see everyone in poverty, they just don't care what happens to anyone beyond their own family. They are not thinking of "everyone." They are thinking of themselves. They just want to be wealthy--I don't think they even consider what happens to other people.
I agree and also respectfully disagree with you. Here's my thinking. How do you properly control a population? You keep them desperate, dependent, and ignorant/uneducated. You make them need you but also completely oblivious as to how you are doing it. Look at how the government is treating education. Look at how outrageously expensive higher education is. You can't tell me this isn't planned.
Now let's look at the business end of the argument. Corporate interests are so deeply rooted in our political system it would be almost ignorant on our parts NOT to assume that there is a plan in place to keep the population as poor and desperate as possible. Again, this is all about control. The wealth gap is incredibly large and its literally growing every day. Billionaires have more money than they or their descendants for generations will ever be able to actively spend (cash or assets, it's all the same in the end). It's no coincidence that we've seen a massive spike in violence as we start to see the wealth gap increase. This is not only due to the rise in desperation, but also a rise in pure ignorance and nationalism that has been instilled in any naturally born American since birth (which ties back into education or lack thereof).
Edit: just to add to this as a secondary thought. If you have smaller wealth gap, everyone is making money, billionaires are no longer special. Just food for thought.
Well, everyone can have their opinion. I don't see how it helps me personally to think that. That doesn't let politicians or billionaires off the hook just don't care to believe that it is planned--it gives individuals too much power in my mind. Having worked with high net worth families and individuals, I really didn't see that and most of them were philanthropists as well. But maybe I happened upon the good ones.
Absolutely. I mean, obviously the societal factors outside of education are causing the situation - with public education as yet another institution that disenfranchises, willingly or not. I just focused on what I see daily as a teacher. Schools haven’t been historically welcoming to people of color, much less academia. That has to change if we really want everyone to actively and consciously participate in society. Kids know that even if their teachers want to prepare them for that, that the battle may not be worth the fight. So they disinvest. And who can blame them.
You're on the front lines, you see what's been going on. I can only comment on what I see as a 32 year old dude who graduated high school a long time ago so your opinion is extremely appreciated. But yeah there's so much going on, but I truly believe that this is a systemic issue and change needs to be made at the source. Unfortunately I don't see that happening for a long time without a complete and of not only a total upheaval our system itself but a complete reconstruction of our basic ideology as Americans. More or less we need to get our heads out of our asses, stop pretending our shit doesn't stink, and start thinking globally and rationally. Enough of the petty culture wars, enough billionaire and corporate pandering, and focus on what matters and a big part of that is the children.
This is an insanely difficult problem to solve and none of us have the answers. Although blindly throwing money to Renee who works for Philly schools Is not doing shit lol
As someone who works at one of the schools mentioned in this article…. The reason the kids don’t come to school is mostly because of their parents. Extreme poverty, rampant substance abuse, and the general malaise imposed by decades of systemic racism and de facto segregation makes most of them pretty apathetic to school.
The only real solutions are enormous, expensive, systemic changes that will literally never happen. I am sure the district will spend plenty of money on random middle management to make PowerPoints about stuff and pay their cousins to conduct studies that lead to nothing.
You spelled “capitalism” wrong. That’s the name of the game though and that’s where we are now and who’s going to hold them accountable? The same types of people.
And pay money to expensive consulting firms that will give presentations about the same thing that’s been known for years, and with whatever funds are left over maybe throw a school community event on one Saturday or something.
Can explain the systemic racism part, only because this city votes democrat pretty much across the board the last few decades, is mostly a one party rule, and Philly probably one of the if not the most liberal part of PA. Is this exponentially worse in alll conservative parts of PA which do not have near the level of social services offered in the city vs middle of nowhere small rural town.
I hate to break this to you but electing democrats doesn’t end racism lol.
But one easily identifiable result of this city’s racism is the segregation of the schools. IMHO this is the issue that we should be working to actively address.
Another is the difference in city services like trash collection, street cleaning, and maintenance between primarily black and primarily white areas.
Systemic racism also includes the over policing and mass incarceration that has devastated black communities over the last idk 100 years? If you have minimal job prospects and half the adults you know are in jail school can seem like a waste of time.
Also just in general one party rule anywhere typically leads to massive corruption. That’s why Philly gets taxed to shit but has basically nothing to show for it. All of the money goes to scams. The roads are shit, the cops are shit, the public transportation is shit, the schools are shit, the social services are shit. I cannot think of one single thing I can look at that actually benefits Philly society at large where my tax dollars are going.
Sad. So many problems in this country have racism as the root cause. Crime, poor quality of education, drug crisis, proliferation of guns, even poor urban planning and the dependence on cars.
The philadelphia school bus contractors are extremely low staff. Many kids miss multiple days a week because the bus never shows up or comes hours late.
holy hell that's a wild amount of students missing more than 10% of the school year. wonder how many in that demographic end up passing compared to the students actually showing up.
Yep, this is one of the biggest reasons that Philadelphia has opposed state mandated testing to graduate.
The school district's number of graduates would drop precipitously, showing that the recent increasing rate of graduation is because the standards have dropped so low that at this point all you need is to have a pulse.
10% is only 18 days of school. 2 days per month. My kid has that. It went like this. He coughed. Can't come back till cleared by doctor. Strep. Has to wait till antibiotics. 5 times in one year this kid got strep. 5 new tooth brushes and mouth wash. The. He got Hand and foot. 5 days out. school is filthy. In the past 2 months we were sending him to school sick on purpose cause we had no more days. Just for them to send him home in a half hour.
Only if you can get to the doctor's the next day. But sometimes he'd come home too late to call. Not serious enough for emergency room. So we call the next day, appointment will be for 2 days later and they won't write notes for the days before. So now those days are unexcused. Now i take him to the walk in clinic the same day he leaves school. It's not his pediatrician but it gets him his notes
My wife started a new job and was sick. They wanted a doctors note. She called them and asked if they wanted to pay the $50 dollar co pay from a doctor. No they didn't. OK, no more sick note needed.
99% of the time a kid is sick they need to stay home for a day or two. Parents can't afford to take off of work and be playing taxi driver to the doctors office.
When I was a kid if I was sick I would stay home, then if i was better the next day i would go to school
I don't know what 'excused' absence means, but if it means getting a doctors note or some sort of paperwork, that's not going to happen for poor people.
There are plenty of reasons why children can’t make it to school. One is that some parents work multiple jobs where they can’t either get the kid to school or pick them up at 3:00pm everyday. Another reason is transportation. A lot of schools have closed in the past few years so schools have become further and further away from where they live. Plenty of kids live just under a mile from the school and still have no way to get there because the school district doesn’t provide transportation for kids that live under a mile from school. You can’t expect a 7 year old to walk that by themselves , so they just stay home with grandma. Parents who don’t have money can’t afford an Uber to get the kid to school and back everyday.
I remember i had to start work at 8:30 am and my kid didn’t have to be to school until 9:05. I would bring my kid to work and we’d leave at 8:50 to get them to school then I’d come back to work. I’d then take my lunch at 2:15pm to get my kids at 2:30pm then I’d go home, wait for my husband to get home at 3:00pm leave to go back to work and stay until 6:30pm everyday. Every parent isn’t doing that because that takes a toll on you. It’s not a “well you decided to have kids” problem as more of a “no one is really accommodating” of parenting problem.
Pretty sure the school district doesn’t provide busing for ANY middle or high school student in a public school (unless for an accommodation). Phila SD provides a SEPTA pass to its own students. Meanwhile, thanks to Harrisburg, Phila SD must provide bussing to city residents who attend private schools within 10 miles of the city.
I know. I responded to your comment about transportation with another reason why transportation issues can make attendance difficult. So a 6th grader wants to attend a high performing middle school in another neighborhood? SD says, “Here is a bus pass, take 3 busses in the dark every morning in winter.” But the parents can afford Penn Charter etc? SD is obligated to pick up and drop off with a school bus.
The level of poverty in Philadelphia is unfathomable for most of us on Reddit. I grew up in another city and there were times when we didn’t have much but not as bad as many folks in Philly have it. There are families living on 10k-15k per year in Philly.
The comments in this thread are unsurprisingly ignorant and sanctimonious, rather than representing a genuine desire to understand and address the conditions affecting these children.
Take a moment to think about what might be driving the surge in absenteeism. There’s a clue in the article if you bother to read it:
> The biggest surge in chronic absenteeism has been in the elementary and middle school grades.
> In the district’s 103 K through 8 schools, all but two had higher levels of chronically absent students compared with 2018-19. In about a third of those schools, the rates more than doubled, turning absenteeism into a daily crisis.
Why would young children living in improverished circumstances have a hard time getting to school?
Edit: arguing in this place with people who have no idea what they’re talking about is a stupid waste of time.
The reason truancy among elementary age kids has spiked is because the affected families on the margins - often single parents - have incredibly inflexible working and housing situations that prevent them from getting their kids to school. They are living on the edge of disaster and making impossible choices every day. Some days that means their kids stay with them or at home instead of going to school. Literally just came off a meeting reviewing some of these cases and trying to figure out solutions for these families.
This thread is useless, and all you people with your finger wagging are a disgrace.
Because their parents don’t make them go. This isn’t a hard concept dude. there’s a certain population of people in this city (and every city) who are to poor/ ignorant to care for their children. No one has the balls to call them out directly so we throw money at anonymous government employees for them to maybe do something. This is all of our fault and none of ours
Yea dude do you know how many poor rural kids don’t go to school? This isn’t a black white,Philly vs suburbs thing. This is a large scale country wide problem
There are things that you’re not considering about living in poverty. Some kids don’t have a way to wash their clothes. They may not have hot or running water to wash themselves. Either the kids or the parents don’t want them going to school dirty and everyone knowing what’s going on at school, so they don’t go. Poverty is complex, and so is every issue stemming from it. If it were just laziness and ignorance it would be an easier fix.
We live in one of the biggest cities in the country. We may 100s of millions of dollars in taxes. There is a never ending pool of capital in center city compared to 99% of the country…. If you’re right and If this many kids don’t have running water, we are truly a failed people.
I’m giving an example. You’d be shocked at the state of housing some slumlords keep, and the folks are too poor to risk being kicked out by complaining. Some of this I say from experience. But trust me when I say PGW and PECO are brutal when it comes to shutoffs.
Yeah, I don't understand that other commenter essentially saying "well, I don't see it, so it isn't happening" and then suggesting the large population size of the city means people are taken care of. It's the inverse; people fall between the cracks in the system.
I’m saying in no uncertain terms. If THIS many people on Philadelphia.. one of the biggest cities in the country don’t have access to running water and it’s causing 1,000s of kids to miss school. We are a failed people
I’ve heard of some schools having washing machines . I don’t know if that’s the case in Philly. It’s pretty bad in our country where there are so many wealthy ryet we have so many people who don’t even have basic necessities. I’ve read time and time again about how poor children in Philly wouldn’t eat if they didn’t have free breakfast and lunch at school. I got lunch for 5 cents when I was in high school in NYC but I was okay during the summer when school was out.
You are categorically wrong. Not even providing an argument and simply repeatedly saying “wrong wrong”. At least the other guy provides some real arguments
I stopped engaging because I remembered that arguing in this place with people who have no idea what they’re talking about is a stupid waste of time.
The reason truancy among elementary age kids has spiked is because the affected families on the margins - often single parents - have incredibly inflexible working and housing situations that prevent them from getting their kids to school. They are living on the edge of disaster and making impossible choices every day. Some days that means their kids stay with them or at home instead of going to school. Literally just came off a meeting reviewing some of these cases and trying to figure out solutions for these families.
This thread is useless, and all you people with your finger wagging are a disgrace.
It’s literally free for kids to go. 99% of them have transportation to and from. They have free food. Literally the only reason they don’t go is because no one is making them
That's facts. Even when I was coming up most people parents ain't really gaf then I had a man's that would literally miss the school bus on purpose. This generation are just worst parents tbh.
This isn't just a Philly thing. In 1990's I lived in Orlando, Fl for 10 years. At one point the local paper did a survey of the the three high schools in the tri-county area on their absentee and dropout rates. The average dropout rate was 50% and the same for the absentee rate. I worked with locals who talked about how everyone they knew in high school had dropped out by graduation.
It’s a nationwide pandemic that stems from our government. They don’t care about children. They want profits, they want weapons, the want control. How do you control a population? By leaving them uneducated and desperate.
I wonder if, for the older kids, more of them are working. It sounds counterintuitive and I have no data on this, but a teacher I know told me that, during virtual school a ton of their high schoolers were "double-dipping"--i.e. attending zoom school on mute with the camera off while working a cashier job or something--and that a lot of kids have tried to get jobs (supported by a noticeable uptick in calls from Acme or wherever to teachers for references). Lots of teens needed to help out their families when COVID hit, saw an opportunity, and took it.
In a way, it's hard to blame them. Even if they are college-bound, doesn't it make sense to ditch school as much as possible and max out your savings before going to college? Or if college isn't in the offing, makes sense to just get started working.
Of course, this phenomenon, like all phenomenons, is not mono-causal.
Graduated from a philly hs in 2020. By 11th and 12th grade alot of classmates get as many hours as they can for they can support their family. They stop coming to school since they’re going pass to the next grade or graduate anyway.
There is a big difference between promoting birth control as a means to break the cycle of poverty and eugenics, even trying to equate the two is beyond disingenuous.
We have known for decades now that by empowering women to control when and how many children they have, we as a society can raise families out of intergenerational desperate poverty, and improve outcomes for all.
No. Blaming the “system” and making excuses for families who fail to care for their children is racist. It’s racist to assume that a poor family can’t manage getting their child to school. It’s racist to lower your expectations for poor kids. It’s racist to make excuses for kids because of their skin color. It’s racist to not hold black kids to the same standards that you hold for everybody else.
I volunteered in the past with a Philadelphia youth program, one of our youth came from a household where their father dropped out of school and couldn't read. She helped learn how to read and get his GED. You have to think about how many parents are out there that dropped out of school and don't encourage their children to stay in school because they didn't need it.
I taught for the district for 5 years. The best teachers in Philly are the ones who hold these kids to high standards and expect the most out of them.
Coddling them and making excuses for their shitty behavior only perpetuates their suffering.
Now I worked at the high school level so that’s different. But at the elementary level we need to be holding PARENTS accountable. And not making excuses and exceptions because life is hard.
Life is hard for many many people in Philadelphia. Get your kid to school.
100% these kids need to be pushed, but at the same time we need to make sure that we as a society don’t keep failing them. It’s not making excuses when generations of people have been left without an education because of some reason or another. If our government put as much effort into education as they do into their corporate interests, these kids might be in a better position. Compassion is not coddling. The “boot straps” mentality is closed minded. Our government is failing these parents and therefore these kids. It’s a domino effect, take care of the root cause and the rest should follow
I feel like the unspoken part of the conservative argument to this is that the kids should just go to jail when they're 18.
Like how does "not paying anymore taxes" or "punishing the parents" result in a different outcome?
I propose a program to offer $10,000 cash money tax free to anybody at all who would agree to a non reversible sterilization.
This won't have immediate impact but will pay off down the line.
Edit: Sheesh, what's wrong? We can stomach abortion, birth control, and trumpet the importance of body autonomy but people can't decide to get paid to take control of their reproductive future?
Shocking, just shocking. These kids grow up in such a clean, safe, orderly, law abiding city. It's all they see! That's what makes them not attending school as they should such a shock.
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It starts with having fewer people who aren't prepared to be parents become parents. The next step is having a robust safety net in place for people/families who fall through the cracks or otherwise run into trouble. But that costs money and Americans largely don't want to pay taxes, so ...
This. Free, widely accessible birth control is significantly cheaper on the taxpayer than the potential 18+ years of public assistance that can result from an unplanned pregnancy. I never understood why conservatives opposed expanding birth control availability.
In the 1960s Republicans and Democrats were both for "family planning" which included easy and cheap access to birth control, and in 1972 even 68% of Republicans were pro-choice. ([Source](https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/02/america-used-to-agree-on-public-funding-for-family-planning-what-happened.html)) That gradually changed after Republicans realized they could gain significant political power by teaming up with anti-abortion advocates and spreading the cause to religious evangelicals who were mostly Democrats. Many evangelicals were already furious because the gov. was pressuring them to desegregate their private tax-free schools and Republican strategists used that anger as a wedge to get them mad about abortion as well. And they used that fury to turn them against Democrats. ([another source](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/)) Gradually more Republicans got-in-line and became anti-abortion and birth control got lumped in with abortion as an 'evil'.
Highly recommend the FX show from a few years ago Mrs America. It documents this exact shift and how the modern/moderate Republican Party sold itself out for them Bible Belt votes.
damn this is so interesting. i will definitely check this out, thanks for the recommendation.
Because they like punishing women for being whores. And they don't care if kids suffer in the process.
Conservatives don't see the hypocrisy in banning abortion AND cutting social services that could give that child forced into existence a halfway decent life
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Hypocrisy isn't viewed as a negative by conservatives, they see the ability to get away with it as a display of power
They want that child working overnights in a factory at 10 years old.
social services do not help children anyway. they will still be neglected. i dont know a single actual poor person in this city with children who does not get free day care year round, enough food stamps that they wind up selling the extras, and free formula to where they do the same (sell it). i'll prob get downvoted but it is what it is. you can give a shitty neglectful parent EVERYTHING and their child will still be dirty, hungry and abused. also abortion has not been "cut" in this city. anyone who wants one could have gotten one so what's the excuse?
>I never understood why conservatives opposed expanding birth control availability. Because conservative women would be the population who actually take advantage of it. Birth control is widely available in Philadelphia though and largely unused.
Which is only going to get worse now that fewer women can access abortion, birth control, and information on sexual health and family planning.
That's the point. More people more desperate.
Yup! It's a feature not a bug. It's not a coincidence that they're now pushing to loosen child labor laws as well. Can't build a billion dollar fortune without exploiting cheap labor!
Or have there tax dollars go where they are needed
Yep. People will happily pay taxes if allocated responsibly. Ha
I feel like we love paying taxes, we pay sales tax, state tax, local tax, federal tax, tolls, property tax if you own a house. what other tax should we pay to be forced to care for people who don’t know how to raise kids?
A) we pay far less in taxes than other western nations -- and as a result, we get far less for our tax dollars. B) You pay for those mistakes one way or another. The smart play is to use tax money to prevent/mitigate those problems. Or you can pay through societal decay. We've chosen the latter.
When people can’t take care of their kids, you can accumulate a lot of future tax liabilities
More then half of our taxes go to the Pentagon. If it wasn’t for that, we could properly fund schools and health services.
But have you seen the new $1.2 billion stealth bomber that can't fly in the rain! Sorry, not enough leftover for lame stuff like schools.
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you can pay taxes to raise kids or pay taxes for police and jails
Compelling argument, but what's your suggestion for dealing with this issue?
government needs to be accountable for how they spend tax money. They aren’t right now, seeing as we are 31 trillion in debt and just decided to agree to spend more, without cutting Military spending. It’s obvious to me that the military really controls the budget so I doubt they care about the plight of poor Philadelphians. Starting to change that would be a good start.
2nd thing would be ending subsidies for things that you can profit on. Ie some brand new somewhat proven energy technology is a perfect thing to subsidize. Whereas electric cars, oil and gas etc are the worst things to subsidize as they are proven technologies with profit motive competition. There’s the 2nd thing we can get some more money off the table for
3rd would be tax loopholes. We don’t need to tax into oblivion, why not end loopholes for the rich and find a way to do that? Amnesty for loopholes with a flat tax is an idea? There’s three things to start
Spending needs to be tied to outcomes. If we don't get the outcomes we need, the funding is pulled to be spent on something valuable. We NEVER do this.
We also pay taxes of the wrong stuff, a fleet of nuke powered carriers an endless war on drugs cool, fixing broken social support programs, education making sure folks can eat etc nah
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Fun fact: At my son's daycare (which paid above average wages and offered health benefits to even part time employees) several of the staffers had their own children enrolled, and ALL of them made so little that they qualified for govt subsidies to cover something like 80% of the cost. And that was after they got a staff discount. So consider how much parents pay for child care and how little of that goes to the people who actually spend their days cleaning up bodily fluids with a smile on their faces and manage to stay cheerful when caring for multiple infants/toddlers at a time.
Also see teachers, social workers, nonprofit professionals…basically anyone trying to help society gets paid garbage.
>It starts with having fewer people who aren't prepared to be parents become parents. The next step is having a robust safety net in place for people/families who fall through the cracks or otherwise run into trouble. Ok, but what if- hear me out, here- we enact policies that encourage the exact opposite?
Welcome to Kensington!
Birth control and jobs is the solution
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The problem is the same crowd of anti- tax people tend to be anti sex-Ed, and anti birth control, to say nothing of abortion. If we could get that stuff heavily funded it would cost peanuts compared to what we’ve got today.
When dads in jail and mom has to work, who is there to raise the child. Philly’s incarceration rate is one of the reasons why we have this issue. Most people in there are not in there because they did something violent. Many were caught with drugs or couldn’t afford to pay a fine.
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Your logic doesn’t matter. We are not talking about smart people first of all. Secondly, there should be buckets of free condoms at every high school, the pill should be free and so should the 5 year implant thing (forgot the name). There should be a damn kiosk at every block party to give those out. Happy to have my taxes cover that but the GOP and crazy Christian right would never let it happen.
This is how they do it in colleges and it works. Free birth control. Dorms practically (and sometimes literally) throw condoms at you. Every time you show up at student health they check if you’re pregnant or have STDs. It felt patronizing when I was 19 but hey, I never got pregnant or an STD so I’m glad we had the access we did. (I went to Temple). Teens are gonna have sex too, let’s make sure it’s safe!
Sex Ed is good, birth control is good. And pro choice is good. But again; playing devils advocate, why should people who don’t use birth control or need abortions have to pay for other peoples birth control and abortions.
If you are being strictly self interested : because paying for those things is cheaper than doing nothing. One way or another you pay for those unwanted kids
Why should my tax dollars pay for cancer research? *I* don't have cancer. Why should my tax dollars pay for schools? *I* don't have kids. Why should my tax dollars pay for mental healthcare? *I* don't have a debilitating mental illness. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Go live in the woods if you don't want to be part of a society.
Because this is how all taxes work: you don’t use every single thing you help contribute to, but you’re also given access to things by contributing.
And "some chick having 6 kids by 5 baby daddies" is definitely the only type of problem people can have. It's certainly the case that no one gets sick, injured, has a mental health crisis, loses a job, or just makes a poor life decision. And the kids born into other people's mistakes don't deserve any help either, obvs. Your empathy is staggering.
Why do they even have kids if they’re not gonna give a shit about them? It makes no sense.
First and foremost, there's a biological urge that is stronger in some people than others that can override good judgement. Second, people are scared to lose what they have. Like some people get money and then are paranoid that they are gonna lose it and so they keep acting like they're broke. People feel the same way about relationships and they see children as a way to anchor a relationship.
Also, some people get raped or use birth control that fails. A huge, HUGE portion of babies in this country are unplanned. And that number is about to skyrocket since we're getting rid of abortion in most states.
It's pretty damn difficult to survive as a single adult with no children if you didn't start out privileged. A lot of parents *do* care a lot about their kids but parenting takes a ton of time and energy and patience... which is hard to come by when you need multiple jobs to just barely keep a roof over your head.
Did you just say it’s difficult to survive as a single person with no kids? It’s easier than a single person with kids.
What? Is this a typo? There are many single adults with no children. I’m one of them. My life would be 20x more difficult with a child to support.
I’ve never heard someone say their life got easier *after* having a child
It was meant to say its that it's very challenging even as a single adult with no children to try to survive in this economy/society so its easy to understand how parents could struggle. Especially if they've been doing it alone for years. I don't think we need to jump straight to parents don't care about their kids. A lot of parents have never experienced healthy parenting so how would they know better? I'm off to make dinner. Enjoy the discourse
I agree that life is difficult when one doesn’t have means, and worse if you have children and are a single parent. About 40% of folks in Philly are functionally illiterate. If one is poor, can’t read, don’t have any skills, it’s going to be really hard to raise your child in a city in the USA.
Not questioning your source, but could you provide a link to the article on functional illiteracy? Just interested to read. This seems so shocking given the population size. Thank you!
It's true. I used to volunteer with a literacy program and that's roughly the number we were using back then. Remember, functionally illiterate doesn't mean they can't read anything -- that number is tiny. But far too many adults in this city can't read well enough to, say, fill out an employment contract, or understand the training materials they're given when they start a job. And they certainly can't help their kids who are older than 8 with their homework.
Not op but I was also interested and found this from 2019 https://billypenn.com/2019/04/29/nearly-a-quarter-of-philly-adults-cant-read-but-they-still-vote/ In the article it links to a gov website with data that seems pretty old.
The thing is, has the literacy gotten better or worse? I’m inclined to think that they haven’t tested or recorded anything or they have and it’s worse. When you are successful you put it out there. With COVID, kids lost 1-2 years of school. For children at least, it’s worse.
I investigated this when I first moved to Philly about 15 years ago. The stats were readily available then through the Center for Literacy which I contacted and considered volunteering at. That organization no longer exists and merged with some others. I googled today, and links that lead to any documentation are broken, in the articles I looked at. The rate of illiteracy (can’t read at all) is 13% in the state of PA, according to govt. stats. This article that comes up at the top of the search is 52% functionally illiterate in Philly. As someone else said, that doesn’t mean can’t read at all, but their reading level is so low, like grade school, that they struggle with tasks that we encounter every day. [https://www.achieve-now.com/poverty-cycle#:\~:text=52%25%20of%20Philadelphia%27s%20adults%20are,%2D%20to%20eighth%2Dgrade%20level](https://www.achieve-now.com/poverty-cycle#:~:text=52%25%20of%20Philadelphia%27s%20adults%20are,%2D%20to%20eighth%2Dgrade%20level). [https://www.education.pa.gov/Teachers%20-%20Administrators/Curriculum/ELA/Pages/Infographics.aspx](https://www.education.pa.gov/Teachers%20-%20Administrators/Curriculum/ELA/Pages/Infographics.aspx)
It’s not that hard to be a single adult with no children
Yeah this comment makes no sense. It is infinitely harder to live a life with children regardless of status. Some people aren’t meant to have kids no matter their financial standing, simple as that. Sorry.
Yeah but I think a lot of them don't plan on it but rather have flakey partners
Maybe they died. Maybe life happens and it doesn't really matter how they ended up in the situation they're in, still makes sense to give families the support they need to raise decent human beings.
I agree, but that’s the exception, not the norm.
There’s always the option of like…not having kids that you can’t afford. I get that people are gonna fuck regardless but you can use protection, have an abortion, or put the baby up for adoption. There are choices here.
Hearing people who are middle class talk about this like they’re all extra careful is really exhausting. Poor people aren’t all trying to have kids on purpose they are poorly educated and birth control/abortions are expensive. Many of them are also vaguely religious. Rich & Middle Class people fuck up too but we’ve got Plan Bs, IUDs, Birth Control Pills & abortions for worse case scenario. Let’s not pretend everyone is out here practicing safe sex all the time.
Also, it's possible to have a kid when you can afford it and then suffer an economic setback. A friend of mine is a middle class, college-educated, white lady. She and her husband had good, white-collar jobs. She got laid off, his business took a hit during the recession, they ended up getting divorced, underwater on the house when they sold it and she and her kids were on food stamps and CHIP within months. (She climbed out of the hole eventually, but it took time.) People have an idea of what people on welfare look like and it's rarely all that accurate.
There are people out there who literally can't afford the $200 for an abortion, don't have transportation, or can't afford to take off work for the procedure and recovery. Sounds crazy but it's real. Had to remind an old gf that the only difference between her and the "hoodrat baby mamas" she looked down on was a bit of luck and safety nets.
Thank you! The snobbery is unreal in this comment section.
(Not trying to be argumentative, truly a good will reply), I generally agree with your comment. But this comment also makes it seem as though people don’t have any access to condoms or birth control, which isn’t true. I 100% agree it is easier for middle + class to have access, and that people are poorly educated— but there has to be some level of individual responsibility involved in people’s decisions. I totally agree middle + class people are just as irresponsible, but have options. But the implication that lower class individuals have zero choices in their reproductive health isn’t entirely accurate. (IMO)
Genuine question: Have you ever been in the lowest socio-economic class?
100% but these comments suggest a level of irresponsibility amongst the poor that is significantly higher and I don’t think that’s the case. We don’t talk about all the broke people not having kids and we don’t know about all the bullshit middle class and rich people are able to worm themselves out of post-mistake. The large difference in child rearing is largely due to socioeconomic chance and a lot of the people complaining about people’s bad life choices would be in the exact same situations if it weren’t for luck of the draw.
Very good points!
Birth control (including IUDs) is covered by Medicaid. There is no excuse not to use it if you can’t take care of child.
Just because you’re poor doesn’t mean you automatically get Medicaid. You have to apply, which is difficult if you don’t know how to access or fill out the forms. You also have to qualify for it, which isn’t always easy. And plenty of people in this city have no connection to a doctor or health system to help them get signed up. There’s also a huge problem in this state with people who don’t even have ID or a way to get it because of life circumstances (parents lost their docs, they grew up in the foster system and don’t even know who their parents are, etc.). Then there are the potential health risks of birth control that make people hesitant or sometimes unable to use it (and plenty of dudes who are just assholes and refuse to use condoms). Also religious stigma against it. Abuse happens. And even birth control can fail. I’m not saying you’re wrong that it would be nice if more people used birth control, but it’s very easy for middle class people to sit on their high horse and have no idea how difficult it can be for people to get help.
So you argument is just more excuses for people not taking responsibility for themselves, their reproduction and their kids. If I could get free healthcare I would jump through whatever hoops I needed to get it. Just saying “this is too hard so I’ll just bring a child into this world” is exactly the mentality that brings children into the world who then don’t go to school and do the same when they are 18. At some point people have to be held responsible for their own well being.
Assuming the worst of people (like you’re doing) is exactly why there are so many hoops in place for these programs. If this society really wanted to help these people, they wouldn’t make it so damn difficult to get help in the first place. Accessing any social service in this country is a nightmare, even if you have help half the time. But I’m guessing you’ve never had to do it or known someone who did.
The amount of paperwork and waiting in being approved for any social services is one of the major limiting factors in accessing them
I’m sure the paperwork is less difficult than properly raising a child.
It is not about difficulty... It is about getting access to healthcare at the right time when one needs it
Is any of that going to be easier with a child? At some point you have to accept that people need to be responsible for themselves and their actions. You are making a million excuses but the reality is people need to put on their big boy/ girl pants and figure it the fuck out and take responsibility for obtaining the things they need. It’s hard for everyone. Do you think I want to deal with obtaining and paying for my insurance, looking for doctors that accept it, paying massive copays,waiting months to see specialists? Fuck no. Should it be that difficult to obtain care? Also fuck no. But I do it because accepting responsibility for your own circumstances is what being a responsible adult is. Just like if you procreate you have to be a responsible adult and at least to the minimum like make sure your kid gets to school.
If you don’t have the time, energy, and money don’t have kids. It’s not like it’s a secret that kids are hard. It’s no excuse.
Lack of birth control and a culture which promotes promiscuity
Why do they drive in opposing lane of traffic to run red lights? They don’t care about anyone but themselves.
They think babies are cute, so they want one. It's gets harder as they get older and that's when they realize what they have gotten themselves into and just don't care. So they throw them to the streets to fend for themselves. No amount of safety net will really help the apathy towards older children problem.
i imagine that a big part of it is young people looking for purpose. they don't feel like they are doing anything significant and having a child is a way to give their life meaning. i have no evidence to support this, just my thoughts on it.
Welfare checks
Welfare system is broken. People have kids solely to get money from the government.
Fine/jail them so heavily that they don’t think twice about it. Break curfew? $1000 fine to the parents. Wage garnishment if they refuse to pay. Kid not going to school? Big fine.
Yes because garnishing wages is really going to help the children out.
Plus, garnishing the wages of someone who works 20 hours a week at McD's is going to take approx three billion years to pay back these hefty fines. Other than that it's a great idea though,
Sorry, dude, you’re not nearly unhinged enough. Gonna need you to threaten to nuke entire swaths of North Philly unless the attendance rates skyrocket.
Does Philly have a truancy court? I’m from NC and I interned with a court system that had it one summer. Basically if the kid has X amount of unexcused absences, the parents get a summons. They speak with the judge about why the kid is always absent and get matched with a social worker to work through the issues and they come back in 90 days or something and if attendance hasn’t improved, they’re either fined or go to jail. A lot of it is definitely down to lazy parenting and not wanting to get up to take the kid to school or make sure they’re on the bus, but a good bit is also just socioeconomic stuff. Single mom who works first shift so isn’t home for the kids going to school and leaves an older sibling in charge and they don’t bother about getting the younger kids ready and on the bus. Disabled grandmother who has custody of her grandkids and isn’t able to get the teenagers to go to school without a fight so just chooses not to fight them on it. The car is in the shop or they can’t afford one and have to take public transit, and it’s such a hassle that going to school just sometimes doesn’t happen.
Yes we do
> but a good bit is also just socioeconomic stuff. Ding ding ding. I wonder if there was some sort of jarring economic dislocation recently, that disproportionately impacted poor families?
philadelphia has been the poorest big city in america waaayyyyyy before the pandemic
but it certainly exacerbated it!
Or some mass death event that disproportionately impacted Black people and left many children orphans?
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It was bad before but closing the schools during Covid made it exponentially worse
In 1990's I lived in Orlando, Fl for 10 years. At one point the local paper did a survey of the the three high schools in the tri-county area on their absentee and dropout rates. The average dropout rate was 50% and the same for the absentee rate. I worked with locals who talked about how everyone they knew in high school had dropped out by graduation. And guess what, there was no such thing as Covid.
Who or what is to blame?
When I was in ninth grade in Philly public school…a long time ago…we had an assembly where the principal said, and I shit you not, “Take a look to your right; take a look to your left. At least one of the people next to you will probably not be graduating with you in four years.” Real inspiring stuff. People rise (or fall) to the expectations you set for them.
If I were a 10th grader who reads at a 3rd grade level I would probably not feel like school is the place for me. Teachers push students to do grade level work they can’t do in a class of 36 kids with a range of trauma induced emotional issues that make everyone feel unsafe, in a building that is probably very unhealthy and may not have enough food for kids on a daily basis. If I’m a kid who reads in grade level and my teachers are so busy dealing with the kids who are causing problems, I might feel like school isn’t the place for me, either, but the good special admits or a charter might not take kids from my zip code in their “lottery”. As a teacher I speak with a lot of hard working and present parents. Kids are just checked out. They feel very disconnected from everyone and everything and if school is not immediately relevant or doable, they just don’t want to participate and it’s worse for the kids who are the most needy academically, socially, emotionally.
The kids are not psychologically immune to what’s going on in the world and it’s heartbreaking. Even the troublemakers in school all have a story. It’s really hard to put down exactly what the cause is because it’s a vicious circle. Really what it comes down to is the level of desperation we’re all feeling and the lack of concern the government has for our families and children. Inflation is man made and corporations/politicians want to see everyone in poverty. Poverty causes desperation. Desperation causes crime. Now compound that into generations of this cycle, you’ve now got a population of people who have lost the will to care, have turned to drugs and alcohol, who’ve given up on being an upstanding member of the community and turned to crime because that’s the way to make money to survive (or drugs). And you know who’s suffering the most? These kids. Schools are being defunded so they can’t provide a clean and safe environment that’s meant to promote a learning environment, social media is ruining the socialization that’s imperative to a child’s development, violence is causing schools to become unsafe, etc. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to desperation, and this has been compounding for decades now.
I don't know if corporations or politicians want to see everyone in poverty, they just don't care what happens to anyone beyond their own family. They are not thinking of "everyone." They are thinking of themselves. They just want to be wealthy--I don't think they even consider what happens to other people.
I agree and also respectfully disagree with you. Here's my thinking. How do you properly control a population? You keep them desperate, dependent, and ignorant/uneducated. You make them need you but also completely oblivious as to how you are doing it. Look at how the government is treating education. Look at how outrageously expensive higher education is. You can't tell me this isn't planned. Now let's look at the business end of the argument. Corporate interests are so deeply rooted in our political system it would be almost ignorant on our parts NOT to assume that there is a plan in place to keep the population as poor and desperate as possible. Again, this is all about control. The wealth gap is incredibly large and its literally growing every day. Billionaires have more money than they or their descendants for generations will ever be able to actively spend (cash or assets, it's all the same in the end). It's no coincidence that we've seen a massive spike in violence as we start to see the wealth gap increase. This is not only due to the rise in desperation, but also a rise in pure ignorance and nationalism that has been instilled in any naturally born American since birth (which ties back into education or lack thereof). Edit: just to add to this as a secondary thought. If you have smaller wealth gap, everyone is making money, billionaires are no longer special. Just food for thought.
Well, everyone can have their opinion. I don't see how it helps me personally to think that. That doesn't let politicians or billionaires off the hook just don't care to believe that it is planned--it gives individuals too much power in my mind. Having worked with high net worth families and individuals, I really didn't see that and most of them were philanthropists as well. But maybe I happened upon the good ones.
Absolutely. I mean, obviously the societal factors outside of education are causing the situation - with public education as yet another institution that disenfranchises, willingly or not. I just focused on what I see daily as a teacher. Schools haven’t been historically welcoming to people of color, much less academia. That has to change if we really want everyone to actively and consciously participate in society. Kids know that even if their teachers want to prepare them for that, that the battle may not be worth the fight. So they disinvest. And who can blame them.
You're on the front lines, you see what's been going on. I can only comment on what I see as a 32 year old dude who graduated high school a long time ago so your opinion is extremely appreciated. But yeah there's so much going on, but I truly believe that this is a systemic issue and change needs to be made at the source. Unfortunately I don't see that happening for a long time without a complete and of not only a total upheaval our system itself but a complete reconstruction of our basic ideology as Americans. More or less we need to get our heads out of our asses, stop pretending our shit doesn't stink, and start thinking globally and rationally. Enough of the petty culture wars, enough billionaire and corporate pandering, and focus on what matters and a big part of that is the children.
This is an insanely difficult problem to solve and none of us have the answers. Although blindly throwing money to Renee who works for Philly schools Is not doing shit lol
As someone who works at one of the schools mentioned in this article…. The reason the kids don’t come to school is mostly because of their parents. Extreme poverty, rampant substance abuse, and the general malaise imposed by decades of systemic racism and de facto segregation makes most of them pretty apathetic to school. The only real solutions are enormous, expensive, systemic changes that will literally never happen. I am sure the district will spend plenty of money on random middle management to make PowerPoints about stuff and pay their cousins to conduct studies that lead to nothing.
it’s a damn shame how much we’ve normalized blatant corruption in this country
You spelled “capitalism” wrong. That’s the name of the game though and that’s where we are now and who’s going to hold them accountable? The same types of people.
You spelled "socialism" wrong. These are gov't run programs, all run by one party for a really really long time.
And pay money to expensive consulting firms that will give presentations about the same thing that’s been known for years, and with whatever funds are left over maybe throw a school community event on one Saturday or something.
Can explain the systemic racism part, only because this city votes democrat pretty much across the board the last few decades, is mostly a one party rule, and Philly probably one of the if not the most liberal part of PA. Is this exponentially worse in alll conservative parts of PA which do not have near the level of social services offered in the city vs middle of nowhere small rural town.
I hate to break this to you but electing democrats doesn’t end racism lol. But one easily identifiable result of this city’s racism is the segregation of the schools. IMHO this is the issue that we should be working to actively address. Another is the difference in city services like trash collection, street cleaning, and maintenance between primarily black and primarily white areas. Systemic racism also includes the over policing and mass incarceration that has devastated black communities over the last idk 100 years? If you have minimal job prospects and half the adults you know are in jail school can seem like a waste of time. Also just in general one party rule anywhere typically leads to massive corruption. That’s why Philly gets taxed to shit but has basically nothing to show for it. All of the money goes to scams. The roads are shit, the cops are shit, the public transportation is shit, the schools are shit, the social services are shit. I cannot think of one single thing I can look at that actually benefits Philly society at large where my tax dollars are going.
Sad. So many problems in this country have racism as the root cause. Crime, poor quality of education, drug crisis, proliferation of guns, even poor urban planning and the dependence on cars.
Personally I’d say it’s INexcusable
Personally I’d say it’s a play on unexcused absences that seems not to have landed with some people.
Oh true gotta admit it passed right over me
Perfectly cromulent. Holy shit it's in the dictionary now.
He was absent that day
It’s inconceivable!
We lost so many daycare centers after the pandemic. I wonder how many of these kids are babysitting so mom can go to work?
This is an excellent point.
Time to employ cutty as a full time truant officer. None of this once a month BS.
The philadelphia school bus contractors are extremely low staff. Many kids miss multiple days a week because the bus never shows up or comes hours late.
holy hell that's a wild amount of students missing more than 10% of the school year. wonder how many in that demographic end up passing compared to the students actually showing up.
All of them unfortunately. No principle wants their school to look bad with poor graduation rates, so kids get pushed through
Yep, this is one of the biggest reasons that Philadelphia has opposed state mandated testing to graduate. The school district's number of graduates would drop precipitously, showing that the recent increasing rate of graduation is because the standards have dropped so low that at this point all you need is to have a pulse.
No child left behind
10% is only 18 days of school. 2 days per month. My kid has that. It went like this. He coughed. Can't come back till cleared by doctor. Strep. Has to wait till antibiotics. 5 times in one year this kid got strep. 5 new tooth brushes and mouth wash. The. He got Hand and foot. 5 days out. school is filthy. In the past 2 months we were sending him to school sick on purpose cause we had no more days. Just for them to send him home in a half hour.
But those are excused absences.
Only if you can get to the doctor's the next day. But sometimes he'd come home too late to call. Not serious enough for emergency room. So we call the next day, appointment will be for 2 days later and they won't write notes for the days before. So now those days are unexcused. Now i take him to the walk in clinic the same day he leaves school. It's not his pediatrician but it gets him his notes
My wife started a new job and was sick. They wanted a doctors note. She called them and asked if they wanted to pay the $50 dollar co pay from a doctor. No they didn't. OK, no more sick note needed. 99% of the time a kid is sick they need to stay home for a day or two. Parents can't afford to take off of work and be playing taxi driver to the doctors office. When I was a kid if I was sick I would stay home, then if i was better the next day i would go to school I don't know what 'excused' absence means, but if it means getting a doctors note or some sort of paperwork, that's not going to happen for poor people.
There are plenty of reasons why children can’t make it to school. One is that some parents work multiple jobs where they can’t either get the kid to school or pick them up at 3:00pm everyday. Another reason is transportation. A lot of schools have closed in the past few years so schools have become further and further away from where they live. Plenty of kids live just under a mile from the school and still have no way to get there because the school district doesn’t provide transportation for kids that live under a mile from school. You can’t expect a 7 year old to walk that by themselves , so they just stay home with grandma. Parents who don’t have money can’t afford an Uber to get the kid to school and back everyday. I remember i had to start work at 8:30 am and my kid didn’t have to be to school until 9:05. I would bring my kid to work and we’d leave at 8:50 to get them to school then I’d come back to work. I’d then take my lunch at 2:15pm to get my kids at 2:30pm then I’d go home, wait for my husband to get home at 3:00pm leave to go back to work and stay until 6:30pm everyday. Every parent isn’t doing that because that takes a toll on you. It’s not a “well you decided to have kids” problem as more of a “no one is really accommodating” of parenting problem.
Pretty sure the school district doesn’t provide busing for ANY middle or high school student in a public school (unless for an accommodation). Phila SD provides a SEPTA pass to its own students. Meanwhile, thanks to Harrisburg, Phila SD must provide bussing to city residents who attend private schools within 10 miles of the city.
Really wasn’t speaking on High School students as I already mentioned a 7 year old getting to school by themselves.
I know. I responded to your comment about transportation with another reason why transportation issues can make attendance difficult. So a 6th grader wants to attend a high performing middle school in another neighborhood? SD says, “Here is a bus pass, take 3 busses in the dark every morning in winter.” But the parents can afford Penn Charter etc? SD is obligated to pick up and drop off with a school bus.
Some of those numbers are astonishing. And per the article, it's probably actually worse because people check in and just don't go to classes
The level of poverty in Philadelphia is unfathomable for most of us on Reddit. I grew up in another city and there were times when we didn’t have much but not as bad as many folks in Philly have it. There are families living on 10k-15k per year in Philly.
The comments in this thread are unsurprisingly ignorant and sanctimonious, rather than representing a genuine desire to understand and address the conditions affecting these children. Take a moment to think about what might be driving the surge in absenteeism. There’s a clue in the article if you bother to read it: > The biggest surge in chronic absenteeism has been in the elementary and middle school grades. > In the district’s 103 K through 8 schools, all but two had higher levels of chronically absent students compared with 2018-19. In about a third of those schools, the rates more than doubled, turning absenteeism into a daily crisis. Why would young children living in improverished circumstances have a hard time getting to school? Edit: arguing in this place with people who have no idea what they’re talking about is a stupid waste of time. The reason truancy among elementary age kids has spiked is because the affected families on the margins - often single parents - have incredibly inflexible working and housing situations that prevent them from getting their kids to school. They are living on the edge of disaster and making impossible choices every day. Some days that means their kids stay with them or at home instead of going to school. Literally just came off a meeting reviewing some of these cases and trying to figure out solutions for these families. This thread is useless, and all you people with your finger wagging are a disgrace.
Because their parents don’t make them go. This isn’t a hard concept dude. there’s a certain population of people in this city (and every city) who are to poor/ ignorant to care for their children. No one has the balls to call them out directly so we throw money at anonymous government employees for them to maybe do something. This is all of our fault and none of ours
Yep happens everywhere. Rural areas too. There’s nothing wrong with what you’re saying. It’s a cruel fact of life.
Yea dude do you know how many poor rural kids don’t go to school? This isn’t a black white,Philly vs suburbs thing. This is a large scale country wide problem
There are things that you’re not considering about living in poverty. Some kids don’t have a way to wash their clothes. They may not have hot or running water to wash themselves. Either the kids or the parents don’t want them going to school dirty and everyone knowing what’s going on at school, so they don’t go. Poverty is complex, and so is every issue stemming from it. If it were just laziness and ignorance it would be an easier fix.
We live in one of the biggest cities in the country. We may 100s of millions of dollars in taxes. There is a never ending pool of capital in center city compared to 99% of the country…. If you’re right and If this many kids don’t have running water, we are truly a failed people.
I’m giving an example. You’d be shocked at the state of housing some slumlords keep, and the folks are too poor to risk being kicked out by complaining. Some of this I say from experience. But trust me when I say PGW and PECO are brutal when it comes to shutoffs.
Yeah, I don't understand that other commenter essentially saying "well, I don't see it, so it isn't happening" and then suggesting the large population size of the city means people are taken care of. It's the inverse; people fall between the cracks in the system.
I’m saying in no uncertain terms. If THIS many people on Philadelphia.. one of the biggest cities in the country don’t have access to running water and it’s causing 1,000s of kids to miss school. We are a failed people
Agree. At the very least Philadelphia is a failed city.
I understand now. I agree.
I’ve heard of some schools having washing machines . I don’t know if that’s the case in Philly. It’s pretty bad in our country where there are so many wealthy ryet we have so many people who don’t even have basic necessities. I’ve read time and time again about how poor children in Philly wouldn’t eat if they didn’t have free breakfast and lunch at school. I got lunch for 5 cents when I was in high school in NYC but I was okay during the summer when school was out.
Careful now, mods be lurkin!
Wrong. Try again.
What’s wrong about what I said ?
It’s empirically wrong. That isn’t why. There’s a reason that young kids specifically are not getting to school - the subject of this article.
You are categorically wrong. Not even providing an argument and simply repeatedly saying “wrong wrong”. At least the other guy provides some real arguments
I stopped engaging because I remembered that arguing in this place with people who have no idea what they’re talking about is a stupid waste of time. The reason truancy among elementary age kids has spiked is because the affected families on the margins - often single parents - have incredibly inflexible working and housing situations that prevent them from getting their kids to school. They are living on the edge of disaster and making impossible choices every day. Some days that means their kids stay with them or at home instead of going to school. Literally just came off a meeting reviewing some of these cases and trying to figure out solutions for these families. This thread is useless, and all you people with your finger wagging are a disgrace.
Some days that means their kids stay with them or at home instead of going to school…… so why don’t they just go to Fucking school 😂
Because they’re too young to get to school alone.
They are too young to get to school alone and their parents…. Don’t make them go ! Ding ding ding
It’s literally free for kids to go. 99% of them have transportation to and from. They have free food. Literally the only reason they don’t go is because no one is making them
That's facts. Even when I was coming up most people parents ain't really gaf then I had a man's that would literally miss the school bus on purpose. This generation are just worst parents tbh.
Hell yea bro. When I was coming up no one missed school like this and none of us had bread either.
This isn't just a Philly thing. In 1990's I lived in Orlando, Fl for 10 years. At one point the local paper did a survey of the the three high schools in the tri-county area on their absentee and dropout rates. The average dropout rate was 50% and the same for the absentee rate. I worked with locals who talked about how everyone they knew in high school had dropped out by graduation.
Yeah, I’m from rural south and this isn’t just a city thing. It’s just reported on in major cities.
It’s a nationwide pandemic that stems from our government. They don’t care about children. They want profits, they want weapons, the want control. How do you control a population? By leaving them uneducated and desperate.
I wonder if, for the older kids, more of them are working. It sounds counterintuitive and I have no data on this, but a teacher I know told me that, during virtual school a ton of their high schoolers were "double-dipping"--i.e. attending zoom school on mute with the camera off while working a cashier job or something--and that a lot of kids have tried to get jobs (supported by a noticeable uptick in calls from Acme or wherever to teachers for references). Lots of teens needed to help out their families when COVID hit, saw an opportunity, and took it. In a way, it's hard to blame them. Even if they are college-bound, doesn't it make sense to ditch school as much as possible and max out your savings before going to college? Or if college isn't in the offing, makes sense to just get started working. Of course, this phenomenon, like all phenomenons, is not mono-causal.
Graduated from a philly hs in 2020. By 11th and 12th grade alot of classmates get as many hours as they can for they can support their family. They stop coming to school since they’re going pass to the next grade or graduate anyway.
I get the feeling a lot of people in this sub would proudly support eugenics 😬
There is a big difference between promoting birth control as a means to break the cycle of poverty and eugenics, even trying to equate the two is beyond disingenuous. We have known for decades now that by empowering women to control when and how many children they have, we as a society can raise families out of intergenerational desperate poverty, and improve outcomes for all.
Promoting birth control and planning is not eugenics
Margaret Sanger would disagree.
Margret Sanger is dead and her "vision" died with her.
Absolutely. 🙃
Time to start prosecuting parents who don’t make sure that their kids are in school. Start criminalizing bad parenting.
How? With fines they can't pay or with jail time that will harm the kids even more? You've gotta finish your thought.
No, no. Let them enjoy their masturbatory lust to punish others in peace.
The racists are out again
No. Blaming the “system” and making excuses for families who fail to care for their children is racist. It’s racist to assume that a poor family can’t manage getting their child to school. It’s racist to lower your expectations for poor kids. It’s racist to make excuses for kids because of their skin color. It’s racist to not hold black kids to the same standards that you hold for everybody else.
I volunteered in the past with a Philadelphia youth program, one of our youth came from a household where their father dropped out of school and couldn't read. She helped learn how to read and get his GED. You have to think about how many parents are out there that dropped out of school and don't encourage their children to stay in school because they didn't need it.
I taught for the district for 5 years. The best teachers in Philly are the ones who hold these kids to high standards and expect the most out of them. Coddling them and making excuses for their shitty behavior only perpetuates their suffering. Now I worked at the high school level so that’s different. But at the elementary level we need to be holding PARENTS accountable. And not making excuses and exceptions because life is hard. Life is hard for many many people in Philadelphia. Get your kid to school.
100% these kids need to be pushed, but at the same time we need to make sure that we as a society don’t keep failing them. It’s not making excuses when generations of people have been left without an education because of some reason or another. If our government put as much effort into education as they do into their corporate interests, these kids might be in a better position. Compassion is not coddling. The “boot straps” mentality is closed minded. Our government is failing these parents and therefore these kids. It’s a domino effect, take care of the root cause and the rest should follow
I’m not talking about this . If it don’t apply (to what you said) let it fly.
The word is inexcusable.
I feel like the unspoken part of the conservative argument to this is that the kids should just go to jail when they're 18. Like how does "not paying anymore taxes" or "punishing the parents" result in a different outcome?
I propose a program to offer $10,000 cash money tax free to anybody at all who would agree to a non reversible sterilization. This won't have immediate impact but will pay off down the line. Edit: Sheesh, what's wrong? We can stomach abortion, birth control, and trumpet the importance of body autonomy but people can't decide to get paid to take control of their reproductive future?
Shocking, just shocking. These kids grow up in such a clean, safe, orderly, law abiding city. It's all they see! That's what makes them not attending school as they should such a shock.