idk, a lot of people are saying this wouldn't make any difference, but I think it's a good idea, and *could* be impactful if the numbers were right. I think the main issue with this, though, is that the 'melee' tag is applied to so many skills that functionally aren't-- if impactful at all this would just be a huge buff to them, and leave the rest of melee skills all the more irrelevant. Maybe accuracy could have a proximity-based multiplier inherently? So like, regardless of what you're using, if you're closer, it's easier to hit? just spittballin here. Like if they made you need a lot more in general, but gave up to like a 5x multiplier proportional to proximity to the target, so that ranged characters, regardless of tags, have to stack it up (especially if they want to off-screen mobs), whereas if you're getting up close, you can don't need to invest into it specifically. Obviously such a change would probably just push people away from attacks in general, but I like the idea of helping melee out in a way that gives it identity, and at the same time makes accuracy a little more interesting of a stat beyond just a tax on all attack builds.


Dexterity already provides bonus to accuracy, so scaling it based on proximity is a cool idea. This could encourage buffs to Far Shot, chains etc.


Blasphemy Accuracy aura




Blood and Sand sand stance blinds nearby enemies, which iirc reduces their evasion rating and effectively makes it easier for melee characters to hit. So you could definitely buff that by giving it some blind effect.


Far Shot could suddenly become really simple - "Your accuracy rating at any range is equal to your accuracy rating at close range"


“Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.”


Damn, is that Izaro or Aristotle?


Its a bot posting quotes everywhere, just report it lol




your last sentence nails it .. in not wanting to push people away, i think it works better if ranged is left as is, with melee/close proximity getting an accuracy buff/multiplier/hit-chance-floor. if you want to risk it all and be close to monster, then you invest less in accu and spend a few extra mods/passives on something else.


I don't really like accuracy as a fluctuating number depending on distance, that sounds like it would be overly difficult to actually measure and build around.


Instead of a scaling line just make it a vague circle of unspecified radius "nearby" and "far away"


We could define it by your light radius


That would be... quite interesting actually, however, rip lowlife accuracy lmao (at least without that one node) Edit: oh right mastery


That's a mastery, isn't it? Very easy to get if your really need it.


The problem with that, in my opinion, is that accuracy as-is, although a tax, is a minor one. Giving a bonus to accuracy for proximity without an overall nerf would save 'true melee' builds a few points at best, and even worse it sets up countersynergies where they're soft-punished for adding range/aoe. If it's a big enough deal that even ranged characters are trying to balance their accuracy investment with how close they're generally willing to get, all of a sudden melee becomes an attractive way to min-max on the 'just get up in there, use the points/affixes you would for accuracy for tankyness or more damage instead' side of the spectrum. I think, if they do it at all, it should be major. Otherwise, once again, the obvious mechanical advantages of ranged attacks are just going to eat the minor tax and win out.


People that think this wouldnt change much dont know that some builds run Resolute Technique simply because getting accuracy is too much of an investment. If getting accuracy for melee was easier a lot of builds would have a much easier time scaling their damage and even defense since accuracy is a suffix which you cant miss for melee nowdays.


The group of melee running resolute technique is very small. It is mostly used for casters. Accuracy is extremely easy to cap if you are in the marauder, duelist, or ranger areas. Think of the unnecessary complexity it adds. How do you know what distance you are hit capped at? How do you prevent over investing in hit? What problems does it solve? You might gain 4-5 passive points and 1 prefix on an item. Most non RT hit builds are going to be crit as well so there is no reason to not run precision. Heck, you can run Ice Golem and get free accuracy with a button push. ​ Doesn't solve actual problems. Adds unnecessary complexity. Pass


I see most left side axe builds running resolute technique while most sword builds stack crit instead. Resolute technique is definitely used for melee, just look at carns boneshatter build or alks helix build. They both run it and are 2 of the last melee builds left.


You'll have to show me those axe builds using RT. I'm not aware of them. People ain't gonna give up crit to save what little investment accuracy is. So unless you find interesting ways to scale damage melee builds wont use RT. That is why on [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja) over 80% of RT builds are spells, for the entirety of the league. Only a few attack builds using it early on before they can properly scale crit.


Here's the pob for carn's boneshatter build: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT50E05\_w94](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT50E05_w94) It's in the youtube description as Ziz did a guide for it. This is Alkaizer's helix pob: [https://pastebin.com/3DeehKtg](https://pastebin.com/3DeehKtg) You've gotta remember on ninja that nobody plays melee so of course it's skewed towards spells as that is what people are playing. It's not that RT is bad it's that melee is bad.


###[ Spectral Helix Champion](https://pastebin.com/3DeehKtg) [](#champion) ^(Level 94) ^[[Tree]](https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABgQDfQHce9R6714TFE0WbwHnB3VZ86rNFez8S2XwG_p82VoytfLYvcSkMHc1ku9O_o8FLS-JFy9kUjQ-9HzApv5TgKR34z38hmA6UokuIVVZ_ulGggf2SPcyivDAGozPXz9lTQ483D14De8OhNkUIHNnvJ826L6nhyl07THhuR36gDbpUEcUcXKpWGOG0XVOR37sXIO2bzsyfv4KJwtmnlXWGjj4689-odlr1KQZkFW4XSSqQdzBBHloqW464cGj6n8Yker5po3jarEd6hjEguRR-tK9NolxZOcnL_uWdqzURKyqhJTyQV6grY3ZfE3jJd9hUuw48kXiYVivypAACEmrL4m6GvR8e0yJLoZP-oDuqbhdvlD7luog1EQA6V6g) [^([Open in Browser])](https://pob.party/share/ekihahotakitum) ^| ^by ^[/u/Cormandragon](https://reddit.com//u/Cormandragon) ***** ^7,009 ^**Life** ^74% ^**Evade** ^| ^83% ^**Phys** ^**Mitg** **Spectral Helix** [T](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Lifetap_Support#support-gem-red)[U](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Brutality_Support#support-gem-red)[I](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Impale_Support#support-gem-green)[d](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vicious_Projectiles_Support#support-gem-green)[Y](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cruelty_Support#support-gem-red) *(6L)* - *352k total DPS | 157k impale DPS | 21.8k bleed DPS* ^3.94 ^**Use/sec** ***** [^(Path of Building)](https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoBPreviewBot/) ^| ^This ^reply ^updates ^automatically.


Wouldn't really consider spectral helix "melee".


I'm aware of the boneshatter. And that Alkazier gear is pretty bad. Is that in SSF? Because RT is good in SSF.... until you can transition to crit. Even if you just take the pool of all melee builds RT extremely rare and niche. You can't say "most life side axe builds running resolute technique" because most left side melee axe builds don't use RT. One does apparently, but it looks like it is in SSF.


SSF players dont have a reputation for making actual good builds. Those builds are "good enough" for the content they wanna do but nothing that would compare to a proper geared crit build in trade. Resolute Technique is really garbage and if someone would approach it with suggesting it to me in trade environment id assume they are a noob.




> That would be super awkward in practice because you'd never know how much accuracy your build really needs and not being hit-capped feels terrible in PoE. This right here. Although it makes sense intuitively, actual implementation would be pain in the ass to play with.


Proximity-based accuracy would be pain in ass to calculate. Is it based on distance to the mob when you fire a shot? But then you move, mobs move. Some mobs can spawn after you fire a shot and how are you gonna calculate for that. And the game also would need to remember initial proximity to every mob in a map every time you fire an arrow since you can theoretically hit anything. Based on distance to the mob when the proj hit? Again with enough movespeed doesn't make any sense. Based on proj travelling distance? Doesn't make sense neither. Chaining, piercing and stuff, secondary projectiles etc. So the idea sounds good if you look at it from IRL perspective, but POE is so far from real life with it's ridiculousness.


sir, there are already distance based mechanics in the game. you are exaggerating the amount of pain it would be.


I'm pretty aware that there are distance based mechanics. If you think it would work with accuracy and projectiles I'm all ears on your suggestion to how to implement it.


exactly like those mechanics, like point blank melee attacks have bonus to accuracy. the further an attack travels the less the accuracy bonus, reaching zero at ie. 35 units


By that logic, if you fire a very slow projectile towards a monster far across the map, and then that monster zooms to your location and catches an arrow, it would gain an accuracy bonus?


well, no, we are talking about a buff to melee. but for the sake of argument, yes, that’s how the mechanics work today and that’s how it would work. and most importantly, this isn’t relevant. you said it would be a pain in the ass to calculate. my assertion remains that no it wouldn’t. you may not like the current implementations, but there are examples to draw upon


The problem is accuracy is fundamental for attacks and you just made it super confusing and impossible for new players to know if they are hit capped. Or they waste a bunch of resources to ensure they are hit capped at all distances, not great for new players.


as if new players, or any player for that matter, knows whether they are precisely hit capped or not. sorry, not trying to flame, but my argument stands


Chance to hit evasive monsters 100%? I'm not sure what you are getting at here.


There's a huge difference between losing 5% of your damage because you were too close and losing 5% of your accuracy because you were too far, especially for something that really relies on manaleech / managain.


well, yes. accuracy and damage are different things. what is your point?


That it absolutely will be an awful mechanic to play with.


Maybe i am wrong, but if that is your point, you are probably arguing with the wrong person in the wrong reply thread. Because this thread is about "difficulty to implement it" not "is it fun to play with"?


They could just bake in huge accuracy bonus into gems for "true" melee skills. Not have it related simply to the "melee" tag.


I think things like weapon range should multiply the accuracy based on proximity. If your melee weapon has high range it makes sense that it’s be easier to hit with when you get closer. From there an accuracy stacking damage weapon could be really cool for rapiers/ big 2h weaps. Maybe even just a notable that works like that would be cool.


So imma blast this mob from halfway across the screen using a slow moving small projectile and it will guarantee hit the enemy because it's a fireball, *but* if I stand right next to the enemy and cause the entire ground to shake and spikes come out of the ground because of my slam to hit the enemy, there's a chance it'll be able to dodge it. Accuracy doesn't make much sense sometimes.


i hear you - although i dont want this to be an argument of spells vs attacks. same idea, you have a character with exactly the same stats, picks up a stick and hits something next to him... thats apparently just as easy as picking up a bow and arrow and hitting same target from other side of the screen


The argument was mainly about projectiles and how spells literally get a free pass from accuracy. If anything ranged should have less accuracy and melee should always hit.


> melee should always hit. this.... is actually kind of a neat idea accuracy would just determine "how well" you hit, like on a scale.. sorta like lucky damage except accuracy scales it, up to a limit.. meh idk, cant think of anything cool


\>accuracy would just determine "how well" you hit, like on a scale.. sorta like lucky damage except accuracy scales it, up to a limit.. Accuracy raises base crit chance upto 150%.


That's sot of already a thing. Weapons have higher base crit and said base crit is much easier to scale, depending on the weapon you can get 8-10 base crit while the most base crit on spells is 7 with most of them being 5-6.


Makes sense, I could see it moving a bell curve of damage roll values moving to the right with more accuracy, but always hitting regardless.


>this.... is actually kind of a neat idea Ever been in a fistfight? You never land all swings you take.


Nono, I get it... but to a point, accuracy doesn't make sense, right? If you get accuracy to a "certain point" you will NEVER miss... Maybe it's a mix of these things. Accuracy beyond a point makes your hits "luckier" or whatever, could be another thing to stack (not to the same extent as the ritual boots ofc)


>but to a point, accuracy doesn't make sense, right? For accuracy stacking builds it does. And I don't know if any additional benefits that scale above 100% accuracy would be too strong for that build type. Personally, I wouldn't mind that, probably even like it. Similar to yellow and red crits like in Warframe. However, this is not the way GGG would think about that matter.


true, true, it's unnecesarry and doesn't add much I didn't know warframe had that yellow/red thing.. makes sense looking back :)


On the case of Warframe it scales with overcapped crit chance. I don't remember the exact thresholds anymore, might have been anything above 100% chance to crit had a chance to be a yellow crit, above 150% it was guaranteed to be yellow with a chance to be red and above 200% chance to crit it always was a red crit. Exact values might be different but it was something like that. WF however has no issues with extreme player power.


Your character can already hit hillock with high chance since level 1 with any weapon. Its just monsters become more and more evasive


Yeah, I'm sure Hillock is clearly the only problem that is making me complain about accuracy, now that you've cleared that for us, I'll just be on my way. And if monsters become more evasive, why are they not able to dodge spells? Serious : I understand how accuracy works, I just don't think it should work that way.


If you want to argue about attacks vs spells, I might have the answer you actually need. They hit all time because magic


Unfortunately, at least in PoE, this argument fails because any attack using a skill gem (anything but auto-attack) is also magic.


\>They hit all time because magic. This is what I disagree with, they shouldn't hit all the time because magic. It doesn't work that way, but if they want to keep accuracy, spell casters should also suffer having to stack it or attacks should just get some other thing to make up for it.


Overcapped accuracy should provide Critical strike chance. Or maybe accuracy after 80% chance to hit should provide crit chance. Thematically it fits even melee weapons. If you are accurate, rather than shattering their pelvis with a wide swinging clubby strike, you hit monster di*k with your hammer directly leading to a massive critical damage. And imagine, you're 100% accurate with 100% crit chance and every strike (stroke?) on the Elder is right in the family jewels. "Ahh, me Kidney" will finally make sense then.


I don't agree with your statement, but loved this metaphor. <3


Accuracy should make the hits more lucky. (Not exactly the same, but something like that)


That's a good idea. Rather than make our characters complete imbeciles who can't even hit a target at point blank, make accuracy provide lower damage spread (damage is lucky) and lower accuracy is basically damage is unlucky. Could provide tiers so below 50% accuracy damage is rolled 3 times and lowest number is picked 50-70% Regular unlucky (damage rolled twice and lower number picked) 70-95% - No change damage rolled once. 95%+ - Damage rolled twice and best number picked.


I used to think rolling crit chance and accuracy into one stat was the way to go, but giving accuracy this feature without changing crit is probably better.


Ranged in PoE has no resources, therefore its superior to melee. Ranged is safer, but traditionally has finite resources. That is suppose to be the opportunity cost. Because infinite resource, there is no opportunity cost. Opportunity cost of Melee is that you're putting yourself in danger but you have laxer resource management... or at least thats how its traditionally suppose to work. In PoE, "auto-attack" is essentially unscalable, forcing you to rely on pseudo-finite resources to empower your melee attack(s). In a game like Terraria, melee has value because ranged and magic resources are (at first) limited, but the moment you bypass that limitation melee becomes largely irrelevant. Melee skills shouldn't cost mana. They should just be enhancements of your "auto attack" based on your weapon of choice. Instead of mana, they can rely on other enhancing resources like Charges or Rage. "Melee" skills like Lightning Strike or Shattering Steel might as well be spells that cost mana for the purpose of hybrid melee + spellcaster (ie Inquisitor). Ranged "auto attacks" and skills should cost mana, or have a separate resource system tied to Quivers that works similar to Flasks for "free" arrows, and if you run out of arrows it costs mana. (perhaps adding a secondary skill similar to Shatter Steel that pulls arrows out of targets/etc to put back in your quiver). Accuracy just needs to affect your minimum damage instead of chance to hit, with Evasion being the counter. * If target has 0 Evasion, you deal base damage. Weapons with low minimum damage become more valuable with Accuracy, while weapons with low maximum lose value, since they require less Accuracy to deal maximum damage. * If the target has 0 Accuracy, every point of Evasion you have reduces maximum damage they deal. * Ranged Attacks lose Accuracy as they travel beyond Light Radius. * Spells do not require weapons, but Intelligence can serve the same purpose as Accuracy for the purpose of calculating ranged spell damage beyond Light Radius. I'm not saying all of this should be implemented, but any of the combination would be an improvement over current PoE's horrible game balance.


> In a game like Terraria, melee has value because ranged and magic resources are (at first) limited, but the moment you bypass that limitation melee becomes largely irrelevant. This is also roughly when melee becomes ranged as every "melee" weapon gains projectiles that sometimes hit harder than if you hit enemy with the weapon itself. Not sure if GGG should go this way too, but it's a solution.


I remember that being the exact thing that annoyed me so much in Terraria, past Excalibur I believe every melee weapon is just a ranged weapon with a melee swing. Then again I can't really blame the devs for that given how awkward it would be fighting Terraria's end game bosses with just a pure melee weapon.


> Melee skills shouldn't cost mana. They should just be enhancements of your "auto attack" based on your weapon of choice. I had this exact same idea so long ago, it surprised me quite pleasantly to read it from another person. Swing a big axe.... it costs you mana? Sorry what?


There could probably indeed be great balance changes following this logic, however .... let's not forget that rather than range attacks dominating the meta .... range spells have been at the top, for which accuracy does not matter. So .... a buff to accuracy bonuses for melee could be a key to improve the balance ? To be fair, the main culprit might be that with more and more defensive options that any build takes, even range ones .... monsters need to be scaled accordingly and melee archetypes are the one paying the highest price for it.


I agree that accuracy is an unpleasant mechanic, but what I think is even worse for melee is mana. If I hit monster with sword or stick, why does my 6L cost 40 mana? That's just sad. Also they'd need to adjust precise technique.


The issue with ranged vs. melee has nothing at all to do with melee weapons vs. bow weapons. There's a reason Lightning Strike is massively more popular than Tornado Shot, and it's because the recent bow buffs were actually not very good. Even though Tornado Shot is a much more mechanically superior skill than Lightning Strike, bow attack scaling is still far behind at almost all reasonable budget levels. Regardless of budget Lightning Strike is much tankier, and at most budget levels except for the extreme high-end it does more DPS too. If you want to get to the core of why skills like Lightning Strike, or Tornado Shot always creep up to the top of the meta then it really comes down to the enemy and map design. If you stuff a couple thousand monsters in a map, and make them all deal a massive amount of damage such that any pack is a serious threat, as GGG wants. Then the best defensive layer is always going to be whatever kills the most things before they can even attack. A true melee skill will never compete in an environment like that, it's antithetical to the entire game's design. There's just too much stuff you have to kill, and the time limit you've been given is too short. So naturally you play some ranged giga-AoE build instead.


I suspect the reason for accuracy being in the game is that caster builds are intended to invest into mana regen, whereas attack builds are intended to use mana leech (which is a cheap way to solve mana that spell builds don't have access to). However, spell builds don't really have to invest into mana regen, because there's so many ways to solve mana in current PoE. There's Elreon crafts, there's lifetap, etc. So I agree it seems unfair that attack builds have to budget in an extra stat into their builds.


its in the game bc it was in diablo 2, plain and simple.


Remember when the accuracy cap was 95%? What a load of crap


Then again Melee had more of a place then since RT was solid starter and crit builds were near impossible without currency. Basically you went Melee or spells for your starter then rerolled into some wander or bow build once you had currency. While that change initially seemed to help Melee builds get enough accuracy. It ended lowering the gear threshold for ranged builds to the point where Melee builds lost all purpose.


>However, spell builds don't really have to invest into mana regen, because there's so many ways to solve mana in current PoE The problem is that to fix your accuracy you take 3-5 passives and 1-2 item mods. Do it with mana and you will feel like having almost nothing. Some spell abilities cost so much that you cant reasonably get enough mana regen without huge investments. I cant imagine PoE without elreon crafts tbh. I know what they were trying with the last mana rework, but I think it completely missed the mark. I guess that current mom builds are the "living" proof of it. The recovery just isnt there and we are too reliant on def auras to achieve anything at all atm.


Definitely not. The main issue with melee is a combination of speed and ability to take/avoid hits. Melee skills simply have to move more, more often to avoid enemy attacks. That means they need more attack speed to not be stuck in place, they need more movement speed to walk out of effects, and they need more defenses to soak the hits they can't avoid. Ranged characters can get away with being slower and softer because enemies die before they get a chance to use melee attacks and their movement never prevents them from attacking due to range. Fireball can always be cast at an enemy on the screen, and thus the player moves once to avoid a hit. Heavy Strike has to be close to the enemy, thus the player has to move twice to avoid an attack - one to move out, one to move in.


Similar to how making triggered skills cost mana has not made spells with a short cast time worth triggering, this wouldn't make a noticable difference either.


fair comparison. as mentioned in another comment, not looking for huge changes, but maybe the cost-benefit could be greater than mana+triggers


It ain't just accuracy, but you are right. Melee has too many build requirements. Attack damage, attack speed, accuracy, overwhelm/pen, strike range and/or melee aoe, mana sustain, **and** enough defenses to stand still under a boss while you attack. Casters have fewer requirements. The best casters, like Inquis, have even fewer.


I mean thematically hitting with a bow takes more accuracy and hitting with melee takes less because you're closer to the target, so smaller accuracy requirement for melee makes sense. And magic is just magic you know 😀


Tbh i don't think the problem is with ranged attack skills. They share most of the "problems" that melee has like needing accuracy and doing damage based on their weapon instead of gem based. The fact that the only poplular bow builds are TR and TS with the latter being carried pretty much entirely by omni proves that. Steelskills are also nowhere to be seen and even the famed spectral helix which is often used as a reference for a "good" skill has usage numbers on the level of Molten Strike.


Before we do any of that why dont we fix that pesky little problem where melee will sometimes miss attacks even with resolute technique


Keystone states you can't miss. But they haven't said mob can't dodge, evade, suppress, invalidate or whatever bs they can come up with :D /s It's like "you did everything right and hit with pinpoint accuracy, but mob is dodgy trickster so fu. Yours, CW" :D


Realistically, how many mobs have Dodge, outside specific map mods? Evade doesn't count because evasion is the counterpoint of accuracy, and RT means your accuracy roll is always successful, in other words mobs can't evade. Suppress is never 100% damage reduction and not sure how many mobs have suppression outside of map mods. Invalidate is not a mechanic. "Whatever bullshit" includes by far the most common reason for your hits not dealing damage that I can think of which is Block.


Maybe, just maaaaaybe you've missed /s aka sarcastic joke comment. Trying to argue with joke post will lead us nowhere. But i'm glad you know how already-not-evade-but-hey-you-missed mechanics work in poe :3


That would just give you few more spots to invest into more dmg, basically. It doesnt change the fact that most melees are just clunky and inefficient to play. The problem is that there are abilities that allow you to almost one shot the bosses already. Giving them more power wouldnt help anything. They will still be garbage to use for clearing, no matter their numbers.


Well, this would make pseudo ranged melee skills better as well, which would mean, we're exactly where we started


yeah you'd certainly have to balance that out, but the idea is trying to make melee have a melee bonus without it needing to be psuedo-range. maybe its a strike skill only thing or strike skills get the biggest bonus, slam skills get small but some bonus, actual ranged get zero bonus kinda thing.


I do agree that if i want to play a marauder, zerker or chieftan, theres like 5 nodes i can take to add accuracy on that side and its a small amount. It would be nice to see just like small amount based just for wielding melee, like you get 600 accuracy maybe like 900 if you wield two handed. Some melee weapons have accuracy on them to begin with.


I'll support this idea.


In this scenario they would need to rework Cast on Crit, because it would be easier for spellcasters using melee (cyclone) to hit 100%.


I only want melee to be fixed via crafting. Ranged like spells and bows should have the current tags but melee should have near OG harvest targeting.


Or... maybe.. Lets get rid of the accuracy as a "gating stat" that allows us to hit and instead make it as multiplier to critical chance and/or critical damage? Accuracy is so obviously copied stat from Diablo 2 and it had little to no sense back there and just as little sense here.


Problem: Melee characters need the same accuracy as bow characters but melee characters should have an easier time hiting. Solution: Attacks and skills used with bows now need twice as much accuracy.


Just remember that actual bow ATTACKS for single target are largely more "melee" than most melee skills that aren't strike skills. Have you ever used point blank shot barrage? you need to lock in place and brrrttt that mob in the face.


It would help but fundamentally I still think the key to balancing Melee needs to be damage. Melee has to worry about weapon dps, attack speed, accuracy, defenses, on hit effects, and so much other stuff just to do the same or less damage than ranged characters who get distance as a free defensive stat. I really think it would help make them a lot closer if GGG just went through every weapon in the game and doubled the pDPS. Early on you don't have the accuracy to get crazy damage and later you should get bonus damage, you're playing the game on hard mode.


Make accuracy scale like point-blank. If you are on top of them, you get More accuracy. Far away, Less Accuracy. Do not worry about tags. Hope you are all having a good Monday. >!P.S. Mondays suck!<


it sounds like a cute idea but even if melee builds had hits cant be evaded by default they would still be 100% irrelevant and in the same position theyre in right now


this cuts deep :D maybe its a small stepping stone for something bigger on the relevance scale


Leave bows out of this. Just ask for less required accuracy for melee lol. When GGG hears this they nerf bow accuracy and call it a melee buff. A better idea (imo) would be to overcap accuracy to gain "pin-point accuracy" or some bs. basically a damage multi exclusive to melee for overcapping accuracy. It would make accuracy seem more interesting instead of tax.


This wouldn't make a difference at first glance, but in the grand scheme of things it sets a very healthy precedent going forward. Melee *has* to invest more in defenses. Cutting investment cost somewhere in opposition to ranged characters is a really great way to foster a more healthy balance tuning environment in a game where everything is usable by everyone.


1. Ailment Power (make it harder to freeze whole screens with ranged skills) Increase melee impact (stun, knockback, ele.ailments power, poison,...) Reduce ranged impact (stun, knockback, ele.ailments power, poison,...) ​ 100 damage cold hit from melee chills 20% (eg. Glacial Hammer) 100 damage cold hit from ranged chills 5% (eg. Ice Shot) \--- Melee now indirectly does more damage and is tankier via whatever scales trough ailments and gets more tanky (chill, freeze, stun,...) 2. Add shields-tiny buffs to melee attacks / rework melee. Dual Strike -> Adds 4% all block and increases cap by 2% for 4 seconds after use Heavy Strike -> Adds 100-500 flat armor for 4 seconds after use Elemental Hit -> (melee) Adds 1-2% resistances over cap for 4 seconds after use Smite -> Aura also reduces lightning damage taken by 2-5% for 4 seconds after use Leap Slam -> Blinds on Impact for 2 sec. and make STUN way more accessible for melee (in-build to strike skills). Make melee really interrupt mob animations (way way more than ranged skills). ​ 3. Skills with heavy ailment power should have damage significantly reduced. Make it norm that players use a SKILL (eg, frost nova) to chill-freeze a screen and use another skill (fireball) to deal damage. In POE all "attack" skills are basically offensive... with auras and movement skills being defensive. 1 Skill Builds should mostly die or be quite sub-optimal for "all content". It will slow game down. People will complain they can't play walking simulators. But as long as theres a 400% movement speed ranged build that frezze-ignites-one-two-shots whole screens... melee will not compete.


GGGGG : We hear you. We are introducing new spell rework in 3.20, we will add a new mechanic called spell accuracy so player need to invest blahblahblah in order to bring more build variety.


Realistically, this is entirely irrelevant for lategame builds. Levelling, Dex provides inherent accuracy while Melee has RT in easy reach. Neither has to work particularly "hard" for accuracy, and past about lvl 80 its a triviality.


How is it irrelevant for late game? At the very least you are saving up on some affixes.


I agree it’s not a huge amount, but Im not really looking for a huge change - just an incremental step in that direction. Honestly though, without a few accuracy mods on gear, precision and some accu nodes then it definitely feels particularly shit - especially if you don’t have much dex. Its those little bits of investment that could be used elsewhere for a little extra defence or a little extra damage that I think could help. I would LOVE (but know it’s unrealistic) if melee hits couldn’t miss or had some baked in chance-to-hit floor in the 90% range


IMO in the current state of the game, it's impossible to fix the trio melee/range/DOT where melee is eternaly forgoten. It's intricaly linked to the simple fact that in POE to damage your opponent, you need to stop (and yes cyclone), basicaly DOT is the strongest cause they don't need to stop often, range is next because when you stop you put distance between you and the enemis so you can see thing comming, and melee is dead last because if something have the damage to kill you, well it will kill you because it will spawn on top of you. If you were to force me to fix melee right now, i would first go for the whole game damage nerf of every skill, including melee, and i would add a movement speed debuff for all gems, going from -100 to 100% and use this to balance thing out.


The thing is there are melee skills that are actually ranged attacks.I suggest just adding distance to target to chance-to-hit formula. The further the target, the more accuracy you need. Also solves off-screen clearing.


This just seems like an arbitrary way to balance things. Almost like you are using inductive reasoning; You know there is a problem, you even defined it as "Melee is weaker than Ranged". But to try and solve the problem you introduce ideas until one maybe kind of fits. That line of reasoning can work, but you usually have to throw every idea at it and then pick the best one/ones to solve the problem. Melee has far more nuanced problems than just being weaker than ranged. Some melee is actually really strong, other melee skills and archtypes are very weak. Some are weak because they can't get enough damage, others are weak because they can't build enough defences, others are weak because the skill used is mechanically not suitable for much of the current games content. Accuracy seems like a really poor solution. It doesn't address even most melee use cases, and in other cases buffs skill types that do not need buffs. Like do you buff accuracy for melee tagged gems and make lightning strike stronger? do you buff proximity and make cyclone stronger? I think you need to separate the issues and look at them more individually. Fortify in its current design is a big problem overall. Name lock skills putting you next to a threat and being wonky is a problem. One last thing - the original intent around accuracy was for Dexterity builds to have a much easier time dealing with it. The trade off was that they would have less STR, so less raw HP. That is kind of still the case; If you build left side Melee, you will probably have a ton more HP than Right side. Just the same as if you did this with a ranged spell or attack skill. The rise of other forms of mitigation came, and at some point or another, things kind of shifted from a classic RPG system to instead being a matter of flavour or poise without real meaning. For a very long time, ES was the absolute best defence build possible. At other times, stacking dodge, blind went a long way. Then there were life and block stacking builds around the bottom-left side of the tree. At some point GGG started metacycling and the old systems basically don't function how they used to. I would view the whole accuracy system as a relic of an older time.


I still think the key should be to grant melee more tankiness. Back to the drawing board with Fortify and make it not only apply to hits, but all damage. As melee you have a harder time dodging ground stuff, because you need to get close to attack.


They just need to introduce monster mods that allow for melee mobs to hit ranged players as if they were in melee So ranged are forced to itemize accordingly


step 1: remove accuracy. seems balanced now.


İ think it would benefit coc more then melee


Ill put it here, add accuracy to spells, make no sence that a mage dont have to aim. Or never miss,


Making ranged worse doesn't make melee better, this would also reduce the amount of builds due to them suddenly needing another thing to cap. Just basic numerical changes would help a lot, at least enough to a point where you wouldn't feel bad for playing as melee.


Or, to watch the world burn, we could do the reverse: Make spells require accuracy as well. It would definitely shake things up.


Don't accuracy based bow builds already struggle with gearing until large investment? Sure there is a high ceiling, but that often comes at the cost of being a glass cannon. I thought the bigger difference would be between melee and spells. No accuracy required and ranged play style. Unintentionally buffs ranged skills with melee tags. It is super easy to get 100% hit chance. Honestly I have more trouble getting stats and resists balanced than making sure I cap accuracy. Only takes like one t1 mod on an item and one passive cluster. Saving us 1 prefix and 5 passive points doesn't really solve the actual problems.


not as long as magic exists.


This is an idea that would work if range and melee were binary. Flicker, cleave, lightning strike, cyclone etc would be hard to balance. Having strike skills be able to be used while moving would be huge. Having slam skills provide massive damage reduction would be huge. Dramatically increasing the aoe and chance of death explosions that don't proliferate would be huge for many builds including all melee skills. Adding more sources of melee explosions would really top it off.


I dont really like accuracy in general. Not because it's a bad mechanic. It's a good mechanic. Half of the game however dosen't have to deal with it at all and that seems kind of silly to me. Why is there an extra layer for a bow/wand firing a projectile to hit but not the same accuracy requirement if you're throwing a fireball from your hand. Is standing right next to someone and hitting them with a stick harder than throwing a spell from 40 yards away and hitting someone? It dosen't make sense to me mechanically or thematically.


meanwhile in the future next patch: Problem: Melee attacks needs the same accuracy as ranged attacks to reach 100% chance to hit. Solution: Ranged attacks now has -25% less accuracy.


so your argument is that blows always land on a boxing match and mostly miss on dodgeball ? i like the idea though. but what u said is not very accurate IRL. besides isn't the only melee played these days are accuracy stackers LUL


I think Accuracy for melee should give extra crit chance. It makes more sense that projectiles have much higher accuracy requirements than melee strikes


The biggest dealbreakers to play melee (to me) is that they clear pretty poorly, and for some skills - if enemies move a bit you miss them, even with a high accuracy. And if you stand still you take more damage than you would if you just off-screened everything from a distance. And in order for them to feel good in both single target and clear you have to do gem-swaps, which in general is annoying. I think leech would need to be a bit buffed, and I also think the melee-nodes could have fortify baked in on them instead of it being their own things and costing valuable passive points off the tree.


I maintain that accuracy should be a pseudo-crit or crit related stat. It should not be needed to hit a mob, it should be used as extra damage instead


Accuracy is not a problem and definetly not a solution. It isn't typically that hard to achieve required values. The problem is actually being in melee, in the danger zone. And currently popular "melee" skills show it: cyclone -is a delivery method for spells and such, lightning strike is pseudo-ranged (accuracy stacking is an option btw), dominating blow is a minion build, general cry is a proxy as well as totems for consecrated path and so on. Clearing speed in case of majority of strike skills is not stellar either. The solution should be good and affordable defensive options outside of necromancer ascendancy - an actually working fortify, maybe? and some mobility enhancments for example significant buffs to close combat support like reducing cooldown of travel skills and not being so restrictive to weapons or attack only, because right now it can only enhance 3 (?!) skills once and doesn't even work with dash - the best movement skill to avoid dangerous situations.


The Monkey's Paw finger curls... GGG adds accuracy requirements to spells to balance out all three. They all end up requiring exactly the same amount of investment. "This is a buff to melee" says local developer man.


I've been saying this for years, accuracy really gimps melee, either remove it, rework it in a beneficial way, or add some generic #% more damage nodes after Resolute Technique just how CI had generic ES back in the days. It's such a stupid, outdated mechanic, capping your accuracy + getting enough crit to justify not going RT on left side of tree while not sacrificing other stats is not necessarily impossible, but requires so much gearing it's simply not worth going for. Gonna be slightly worse next league with removal of reservation mastery since high level Precision reserves far too much mana.


How would you treat lightning strike? Would the projectile need ranged accuracy or both hits would use melee accuracy?


meanwhile chad spells be like


Why does Cyclone, a skill that spins your weapon all around you, need an accuracy check? It's literally hitting anything in that area. period. The same is true for the cone on Cleave or Reave. The only reason they do check is to keep crit melee builds in check. If Cyclone didn't have an accuracy check those builds could invest heavily into crit and actually compete with non-melee builds. GGG does not like that.


>If melee didn’t have to work as hard for accuracy, then you can spend more points/affixes on tankiness or damage. It's a solid thought, but we've been down this road many times before. The fact is that if you're defining melee as "A playstyle in which you must get close to your opponent" and defining ranged as "A playstyle in which you do not need to get close to your opponent" then the things you'd have to do to make melee appealing as an option (from the perspective of a player looking to optimize player power) would require making ranged feel worse. If both melee and ranged have enough damage to viably clear endgame content, have enough speed to get around quickly, and have enough defense to survive hits then it won't really matter if melee gets those things a bit easier - that will make melee cheaper but at the end of the day the character that has all those things but can do them from a distance will be better. And if you take away the ability for ranged characters to do any of these things to give melee a purpose beyond scaling it's damage or defense faster then you'll have the problem where people will feel like ranged is shit and not worth playing. There were some period in PoE history where melee had a niche of being much better at fighting bosses, but even then those were more about the melee Ascendancies being able to scale defense better to get smoother and more consistent fights and many of the top builds still used spells or ranged skills with those melee ascendancies. I woudln't mind seeing a 'single target' damage niche where melee gets massive buffs to their single target damage potential in some areas while leaving them underwealming in terms of AoE to promote this kind of niche - but you'd still have the issue of melee being underwealming in most content.


Nothing would ever balance actial melee vs ranged just because melee is mechanically inferior to ranged and there is nothing that can be done to change it. There's a reason we moved from fighting to swords to fighting with guns in real life, and that also applies to video games. And by actual melee I mean where you have to go up to an enemy and hit them, not stuff like LS or scaling slam aoe to slam the whole screen.


That's a stupid take. Melee feels pretty great to play in Last Epoch from the very beginning and is late game viable too.


Melee also feels pretty great to play and is late game viable in PoE. Doesn't mean it's not inferior to ranged. Getting close to an enemy and staying in place to hit him means you are also close and staying in place for him to hit you. And in a game where being close to an enemy and standing still is a recipe for death, melee will allways be worse than ranged. You can go back and look at past leagues, the only times true melee was superior to ranged was when some got overbuffed and was dealing stupid damage with little investment.


i agree, make melee need 6000acc for 100% hit and keep range at 3000


No because survivability is the issue not damage.