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Call for B.C. inquiry after officials 'ignore the science' of airborne COVID-19 spread

Call for B.C. inquiry after officials 'ignore the science' of airborne COVID-19 spread

anomaloustraveller

This and data sharing are probably my two strongest criticisms of the province and its handling of the pandemic. I think DBH and her team have done very well overall, and I appreciate that for the most part, Horgan stayed out of it and let the doctors and scientists run the show. But this has not been without error.


ZeusLightneeng

My thoughts as well. ​ If I were in charge no doubt I would make some errors. Relative to our nearest neighbors we've come out looking like saints.


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ZeusLightneeng

Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. And hell why not, Ontario.


rioot123

Ontario's doing well compared to Alberta tbh


Grabbsy2

Extremely well. Yesterdays numbers came out, and were better than Newfoundland and PEI, as far as I know.


Nigelwethers

No, Newfoundland had 21 new cases over 4 days, Pei sees a daily case load under 10. Ontario is still seeing hundreds of new cases a day.


Grabbsy2

I read it in a comment, its possible they meant per capita. Seeing as how Atlantic canada entirely is 2.3 million people, it might be comparable.


InsignificantOne13

I wish that could be said of all of Ontario but it's so not true. Some are only registering about 60% vaccination thanks to a loud minority that's been following Randy Hillier and protesting everything since the very beginning.


JamesGray

Oddly the health unit in his riding is the most vaccinated in the country though I believe.


InsignificantOne13

Lucky. Mine seems to at least have topped 70% recently and i think some people are getting 3rd shot. I'm hoping people don't just give up if we gotta get regular boosters.


m_litherial

Now. The missing word in that statement is now. Love an Ontarian expecting more shit.


InsignificantOne13

Yeah Thanksgiving just happened. I'm expecting a definite rise, hopefully just among the unvaccinated without a cause.


Majestic_Affect3742

It's weird, it's like the costal provinces (east and west) have done better overall. NB is sliding a bit lately however.


PooPaLuPaLoo

NB is sliding because Higgs admitted seeing "initial success" in Alberta opening up and followed the same model. Now we're seeing huge pandemic numbers (relative to our population). There is a very vocal, and staunch minority of Anti-Vax'ers here who are feeding the 65% of those hospitalized. The other 35% are either partially or fully vaccinated, but NB also has one of the oldest populations in the country.


Majestic_Affect3742

I am well aware of our provinces stupid decision to open up this summer. They should of just kept in line with the other Atlantic provinces.


PooPaLuPaLoo

100% agree.


Just_Treading_Water

It's not that weird. There is a certain brand of prairie conservatism that prides itself in ignorance and rejecting data and science. This pursuit of ideology in the face of all evidence that the decisions you are making are bad is the reason the prairies are in the state they are.


Mobile-Performance45

Ontario is way better then the Western Provinces higher percentage 1 Dose 87% 2 doses 82%!


Maverick-mettle

How is Ontario included in that? We had longer and stricter lockdowns than any other province. Lol smh


JamesGray

To be fair we also cut funding to healthcare workers in fall of 2020 and our long term care homes were a disaster. Ford's been doing long term damage without too much obvious short term effect.


Maverick-mettle

Absolutely! I'm very concerned about the future of Ontario Healthcare with Ford at the helm. I was more referring to pandemic precautions with the public. We definitely weren't having maskless freedom rodeos like Berta


R_lbk

Spot on. Though I would like to add I wish DBH and her team should have been more strict and proactive, instead of catering to the idiocy of society and reactive to escalating case numbers. But.. politics. The loudest voice gets heard the most and sadly the dumbest amongst us, who 'do their own research', are the loudest :(


anomaloustraveller

I agree with the lack of proactivity. It makes sense to follow the numbers and not be too impulsive, but it did feel like we unnecessarily learned lessons that other parts of the world had learned for us ahead of time. This article about airborne transmission being an excellent example.


CytheYounger

Sorry I must of missed the story, what is this data sharing thing?


anomaloustraveller

The province was not sharing more detailed data about the spread of the virus with the public, such as where the cases were located. We would get numbers for health regions, but not much else. These big data packets they share now are a relatively recent development which they caved to after external pressure and (if memory serves) an internal leak.


aznkalun

I’m curious if there was any correlation at all with BC’s public health guidelines / DBH decision-making with the Fauci / CDC policy timeline. >While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. This was also early in the pandemic before public health experts fully knew how contagious the disease was and how it spread. >Fauci explained that at that time, “we were not aware that 40 to 45% of people were asymptomatic, nor were we aware that a substantial proportion of people who get infected get infected from people who are without symptoms. That makes it overwhelmingly important for everyone to wear a mask.” >“So when people say, ‘Well, why did you change your stance? And why are you emphasizing masks so much now when back then you didn't -- and in fact you even said you shouldn't because there was a shortage of masks?’ Well the data now are very, very clear,” he said. >“We need to put that nonsense behind us about ‘well, they keep changing their minds,’ ” Fauci said. >As to Fauci’s other comments, while he occasionally sought to reassure Americans in the very early days of the virus, he consistently advised to follow CDC guidelines and that things could change.


mnbhv

Times were weird. I was viciously getting attacked by left-leaning people on Twitter for promoting masks. It’s like dude, maybe you don’t agree but actively discouraging mask usage during a pandemic is not the hill to die on.


NatoBoram

They're not left-leaning, they're concern trolls and reactionaries.


Boccaperta

While you're probably right, there's plenty of crunchy granola type lefties, especially in BC, that are anti mask anti vaxx types.


BC-clette

So faith-based thinkers, similar to fundamentalist Christians, who reject science. Not soo much "lefty" as just anti-establishment, anti-government, anti-progress.


ShamPow86

They don't want to die on that hill, their aiming to die on a hospital bed on a vent.


InfiNorth

I'm a teacher in BC close to resigning. Despite official mandates, my school continues to allow people to not wear masks while having custodial staff running around sanitizing surfaces every evening. This isn't about them changing their minds about the science - I would be *thrilled* if Bonnie Henry *ever* acknowledged a single mistake she made so we could move on. Instead she giggles about death tolls, contradicts herself, and doesn't even follow her own recommendations. As a result, we have a population that has no idea what to do because she refuses to make clear statements or enforce any mandates.


thowy256899754346

also teachers arent mandated to be vaccinated. its a recepie for disaster. i support your decision to quit but consider a leave of absence with this specifically as your reason. more teachers should do it maybe the govt would listen up.


InfiNorth

You think I have seniority or a contract that would even offer a leave of absence? Adorable. Also, even just me leaving would send a message, as if I leave there is no replacement - all other positions within my qualification are still vacant and are being shoehorned into other schedules.


phormix

Yet the schools have kids writing her "thank you" letters like she's a freaking saint or something. As a parent this kinda pisses me off.


InfiNorth

Don't worry, we've learned to be kind and calm! That cures COVID! Also, remember when the radical preventative measure of "sitting down at desks" was discovered that prevented transmission? That was an incredible scientific discovery.


phormix

Yeah... praising somebody for a response that wasn't really "good", it was just not near-criminally incompetent like some others...


BC-clette

She "giggles at death tolls"? Something tells me you are not unbiased.


InfiNorth

She literally chuckled while discussing how the government needs to balance deaths and the economy. Neither of those are cool.


MissingString31

I’ve been hugely critical of DBH during this pandemic (particularly the slow response to the third wave), but this assertion is absurd. She has a habit of chuckling to herself when she fumbles a question or often gives a short laugh as a way of acknowledging the difficulty of a problem. But reading any sort of maliciousness into those tics is clearly looking for an axe to grind. I’ve been watching every single COVID briefing since they started. She frequently chokes up when discussing deaths or people in ICU and has shown a profound level of humility in the face of all the praise and adulations she’s been getting. I’m assuming by “doesn’t follow her own recommendations” you mean the ridiculous Lions game event that the media tried to turn into something that it clearly wasn’t? She was in a private area at a massive open air stadium with no one around her and was photographed with no mask on while she was at her seat. Then a large group of people started approaching her to take photos and she just went along with it rather than telling them off probably because she was caught off guard. Even when asked about the moment she called it “disconcerting”. Data transparency and slow responses are absolutely something you can criticize her and Dix for. But insinuating that she finds pandemic deaths funny or isn’t taking the crisis seriously is wildly disconnected with anything approaching reality.


InfiNorth

>and has shown a profound level of humility Yeah it was super humble to tell teachers that we had nothing to worry about (and to continue to spew this garbage at us) when we definitely do. Lots of humility there. No one who is sane giggles when talking about death. No one. She is either completely apathetic about the people she is supposed to be taking care of or downright sociopathic, and considering she made it into politics, it's the latter. >Then a large group of people started approaching her to take photos and she just went along with it rather than telling them off probably because she was caught off guard. Oh, I guess being caught off guard is a good reason not to put your mask on. Oh, and attending a massive even was also a great message to send to people. You know how they were *recommending* masks? The people who recommended them didn't even wear them. That shows you the level they care. >But insinuating that she finds pandemic deaths funny or isn’t taking the crisis seriously I am not insinuating, I am stating a fact. She is a sociopathic liar. She published a memoir about how awesome she was instead of, you know, telling the truth to the millions she is medically responsible for. She told bold-faced lies to us. She should be tried as a criminal, along with Dix. They are both absolutely useless, like everyone else associated with "managing" the pandemic. Too bad, since the BCNDP was the last party worthy of getting a vote until the last few years summed up their brutal incompetence.


ygjb

\> No one who is sane giggles when talking about death. No one. She is either completely apathetic about the people she is supposed to be taking care of or downright sociopathic, and considering she made it into politics, it's the latter. Look, I don't know your life experience, but I can tell you, as a person who has been in several traumatic experiences, if you don't learn to cope with the stress, it destroys you and turns you into one of those sociopathic people. I was in two distinct life or death situations before I joined the military, one involving a person with a gun who came into a restaurant, and one involving a mugging where I got stabbed in the arm (while complying). What I can tell you is that because I didn't have fun things like benefits or therapy, I learned to cope by seeing the absurdity in death and danger. It's extremely disconcerting to other folks when something bad is happening, and I chuckle, laugh, crack a joke, or smile, and then get down to practical matters, regardless of the emergency. That's not sociopathic, and it's insulting for you to make an armchair diagnosis like that. Doubly so, since the person you are referring to has, in addition to other roles in her career, served in the military, and it's a very common reaction among ex-military folks that I know around the world. You just have to become practical about the absurdity of the human condition, or it will destroy you. \> until the last few years summed up their brutal incompetence. I don't know why I even responded to you; you haven't really put forward a concrete argument, just been super dismissive of the practical experience that has helped BC get through this pandemic with a lower impact than most other parts of the world. YMMV, but if you are actually a teacher, as a former university instructor, I would return pretty much all of your comments with big red circles and a note saying "Citations needed, see me after class."


InfiNorth

Politicians are sociopaths. No one else would seek that kind of absurd control over people or opportunity for corruption at the expense of others. Also, I'm a teacher. Way different than a college instructor. I actually help kids grow up. Nothing like a college instructor. Your job was hard as hell, for way different reasons than being a teacher. I don't get to just stand at the front of a room and deliver a lecture and then give a multiple choice test. I don't care what kind of unhealthy "coping mechanisms" someone has. Being in a role where you are supposed to be there for the people you supposedly represent, you have to consider how your behaviour will impact those you are speaking to, coping mechanisms be damned. If you are going to laugh about people dying while extolling the importance of keeping our capitalist garbage dump running, you probably shouldn't be in that position.


grizzlybearcanada469

But my welder said it’s all a lie lol


ghanima

Never thought I'd live to see the day that Ontario's pandemic response would be viewed as the better choice. Mind you, I thought that would be because I'd have died of COVID in Ontario.


Ok-Entertainer-7904

Fk Bonnie her and tricky dix being dishonest shitbirds pandering to the mentally inept and scientifically illiterate has clusterfucked this so far beyond what we could have had if they had just been honest and direct with the publicly available science that anyone with the internet could source whilst they lied and then lied to cover their lies and they will continue to clusterfuck it till they die possibly after publishing a book ohh wait Bonnie already did that yah