By - jdayellow
My husband worked as a construction inspector. Got fired from a company and then 2 years later during covid they asked if he wanted to come back. They offered the same exact pay and refused to budge when he told them that he gained more experience in those 2 years and should be paid more.
I put 5 years in at a company making 15 an hour. Left for greener pastures. He calls me a year later and asked me to come back. Really needs someone good. I'm making 20 at this point, he offers me 15 says it's the best he can do. Like seriously why do you think someone would take a 5 dollar pay cut? In what world does that work?
Edit: To clarify, this was over ten years ago, it was for a big corporate company, and I'm making well over double now to what I was then. Management was amazing when I started. The boss really took good care of his employees. There was a change of management and the new boss was an ass kisser who tried to get his own numbers up to look good to his boss which meant screwing over his employees. I had asked for a raise and was told I'd get more hours instead. Considering I was working 12 hour days I didn't want more hours. He was the reason I left. I was really good at my job and they had a hard time finding a replacement for me. I would have gone back if he had accepted my counter offer of 24 (which is what the standard was at the time for someone with the experience I had).
It's just disrespectful at this point. They act like they shpuld be worshipped and we shpuld be thankful for the opportunity to work for them. We're not house elves.
We don't work for them, they buy our work
I presently work in a coffee shop and wake up at 4 a.m., which I would not encourage. It's also difficult to be an adult with a social life when you have to be in bed by 8 p.m. or you're doomed.
When i was a teenager, I worked at mcdonalds and they gave me breakfast both Saturday and Sunday. This means you start at 5am to open at 6am. I had to get up at 4am to get ready and ride my bike (parents drove me the first few times and then I was on my own, which is fair).
My weekends were over, I did it for about 6 months and then told them they had abused the position (plenty of other people could do breakfast) and I will no longer be doing breakfast.
"If $15 is the best you can do, you're not the best I can do."
How the fuck do you call up a former employee to ask them to come back and not be prepared to offer a raise?
Like, even if you didn't tell them the job you were moving onto paid more when you left, its safe to assume it's the money. I mean, if the boss is thinking "ill bet he left for the exact same pay" then the other part of that thought should be "how shitty is it to work here if people are taking jobs with the same pay?"
Then they call you to be like "you have so much value that we are reaching out to you instead of going through a list of applicants."
It's bordering on insulting really.
I did actually leave a job for a new one with nominally the same pay. A bit less, due to some reasons. To this day, both my ex-boss and HR are convinced that I left for better pay and because I was too burned out.
This, even though I specifically told them just how much of a shithole that place has become. But even so, if veteran employees are leaving in droves due to being "burned out", maybe its still something to act upon...?
At my company a specific part/site of the company is now ran by 90% subcontractors. 10 years ago it was 30 subs and 70% own company staff. But the people in that place are the same, they simply switched to work for the subcontractors instead of the main firm.
Really tells you something
> It's bordering on insulting really.
it's gone over the border, bought a house, and put the kids in a local school at this point
The fucking audacity of that company LMAO.
Not even a 5% for the standard expected amount of inflation for the time. Audacity is right
Imagine calling someone up after you fucked them over and then expecting that person to not negotiate when dealing with you? Like I can't put myself into the headspace at that company
The “we are desperate, with nothing to lose, yet still in a position to fire you at any time again if we need to”
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”
We need you but wish we didn’t have to pay you
More like can’t be bothered to pay for advertising the job
I dont even see the point in going back to an employer that fired you in the first place.
Yeah I’ve never been fired but I do have one employer I hated. You’d have to pay me 7 digits to go back there.
Been in construction going on 2.5 years. The singular truth about construction is that it's a greedy industry built on cheap (skilled) labor.
Way too many companies whine about wanting a free market, but get awfully upset when they have one
They want the usual ‘capitalist’ market.. where totally ‘not’ slaves bid and fight to do more work for less.
While they kick back and fuck around with exorbitant pay, benefits, company charge acct and severance packages minimum. All while barely paying their ACTUAL WEALTH source.
Typical modern neo-royalty(10% and up). Lavishly living it up while tossing some crumbs at the peasants and angry that the peasants are starving.
Yup. The whole no one wants to get up early line is complete BS. Pay workers what they're worth and people will come. My work day starts at 5:40 am or pm depending on if I'm on days or nights and we definitely don't have problems getting or keeping guys coming in. Pay the people.
Same here. 6-6 shifts days or nights and people will do it because they get paid.
4am here. I mean… do i like it? No. But Christ… i honestly don’t know why i am still impressed with how out of touch the ruling class is.
I'd call those people back every once in awhile just to laugh in their ear when they pick up. They are so stupid that it's funny. Lordy lordy
A lot of people were probably getting laid off so they were hoping to catch people feeling desperate
Hiring effectively cheaper and experienced workforce
Yeah, it's a no brainer on the company's side of things. Shitty tactic, but you know someone probably took the bait. They already know who they're hiring so they don't have to waste time training.
Not to mention the inflation.
You'd be surprised what people will do for the right amount of money. I happen to work construction - electrical - but only because the money and benefits are (have been) adequate (so far). It's not keeping up with inflation but what is?
Edit; I should add to defend the younger people we have a lot (not all) of young apprentices just out of high school with pretty good work ethic. I am in canada though so not where this article is from - we may have a more appealing trades sector than ireland.
I have a friend who trained as an electrician in Ireland and went out and spent years working on an airport in Edmonton. Yeah, Canada treats electricians better!
I actually did the same thing many years ago. Got on with a Canadian company and I made some really good many and met some great people.
The funny thing about your comment is I worked in what they call the patch and the head of HR recruiting was actually from Ireland. Canada at the time had a major trades labor shortage. Hence why they were hiring me as an American and a whole bunch of other people from other countries.
But anyways, the company I worked for hired a lotttt of Irish people. Out of 80 people on my site there was about 50 of them. Some of the best people I've ever worked with in my life and we still keep in touch today.
I befriended a Irish lad who invited me to his apartment in Vancouver. Where I discovered like 6 people living across two flats. They partied hard, did what they wanted to on the weekends and all did construction. Definitely were great people, treated my ass to a fun weekend.
There was a period some years ago when it seemed like every Irish electrician and apprentice moved to Canada. The price of oil crashed and home they went.
If you can't find workers, that means you're offering too little pay for what you're expecting them to do.
Simple as that.
You can find someone for any job as long as you pay enough money.
Pay and benefits. I want to know I can take a fucking vacation or two. I want to know that if I get sick I won't get laid off. I want to know if my kids need me to go pick them up at school that I can go.
Our generation wants flexibility. The kind of flexibility the fuck heads running construction and service trade companies do not want to give.
It doesn't help that the people working at these companies wear their endless work as a badge of honour. Bunch of absolute slaves.
Which is ironic since the entire industry is based on flexible timelines, flexible budgets, etc. Just not for employees
What he really said is "No one wants to get out of the bed at seven o'clock in the morning for a absolutely abysmal pay". It is quite clear, if you look for 35 people and you get only two, you pay too little for people even consider working for you.
No one wants to work a hard job and still be poor.
Construction workers have to be suited, booted, and working at 7 AM. That means arriving at the jobsite 6:30-6:45. Unlike with office jobs, you cannot select a residence close to work, because your work location is always changing. So expect a long commute.
In other words, set that alarm clock for 5 AM or risk getting fired.
I worked as a frozen food selector for a major US grocery chain. I had to be at work at 4:45am to start at 5, wear clothes suitable for 10-15 degrees F, and work anywhere from 7-11 hours a day lifting boxes anywhere from 1-150 lbs at 1-25 count each. I made $19 an hour and quit after 4 months.
Everything we did was timed, and if we had less than 95% efficiency we got in trouble. You have to drink water constantly to avoid hypothermia, but it takes 10 minutes to go pee. We had 2 20 minute breaks and 1 45 minute lunch.
They were perpetually confused by the high turnover rate, and hired 5 new people a week to keep up with it.
I did this job but for 16.35/hr. I worked so hard trying to keep up and get the bare minimum of 95% and almost never could finish the day with that.
They pulled me in with the pay because at the time it was alot for me and the promise of only working 4 days at 40hrs. They accidentally forgot to mention that you do go home after your 10hrs but instead stay till the last box is pulled.
People would regularly leave or not show so that was more time added to our day. Then they started with the good ole "mandatory overtime" to help the weekend guys.
I could go on forever about how much I hated that job, glad I'm out now.
All things considered, our country has an admirably low rate of arson.
We should start doing flash dance mob thefts to protest. What're they going to do, outlaw dancing?
I mean, that could change at any second, though.
And the thing is, I didn't even hate the job! I'd still be doing it if it was realistic and paid for the labor it is.
Was that Kroger? That sounds almost exactly like when I worked for the distribution center for them
No, their big Southern competitor, HEB.
That sounds terrible. How has shit like that not been replaced by automation?
Because robots cost a lot more than you think especially in this hyper-short term Quarterly Stock Market environment we exist in.
Automation requires (1) standard containers from all the food companies (they aren't), (2) standard-sized shelves with standard layouts so the robots know exactly where to load/unload (they aren't), and (3) a sizeable initial investment in the tech to get off the ground.
Number 1 and 2 aren't in place, and the inertia to get them completed would be expensive and very slow. Especially with smaller grocery stores; a giant chain like Walmart or amazon could likely do it.... but it's simply still cheaper to try to pay people a terrible wage and eat the high turnover rate.
and 4) increasingly expensive maintenence to keep the running and make sure your programs stay up to date.
I work with robot palletizers and even something as standardized as pallets and boxes is problematic due to imperfections in pallets and boxes. We actually had the robots shutdown and replaced with humans for awhile to meet production demands. Humans also take up a lot less space.
Plus humans do most of their own maintenance and upkeep.
I remember a warehouse I worked in spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase and set up these machines that were just supposed to stretch-wrap stacked boxes. It was supposed to cut down on people needed to stretch wrap stacks of boxes, but in the end you needed someone to stand by each machine and reset it when it inevitably got hung up on a .02 mm difference in the stack of boxes.
Automation is extremely difficult to get right. While the long-term gains are obvious after it's done, the up-front cost is far higher than just churning through more plebs during that time, and you might not see an ROI for a few years. Modern business is all bout **this** quarter's profits before you jump ship to something else, so from that perspective it just doesn't make sense to dump a bunch of money into long-term development that won't be profitable until you're long gone rather than just pocketing those funds.
My dad used to commute from our rural NorCal area to the Bay area daily. He and his coworkers would carpool together to save on gas money. He would leave the house around 4am most days.
As a small child, he left home before I woke up and returned after I was asleep. I genuinely didn't know that I lived with my own dad for years.
And he slept on weekends because his hellish commute left him drained and had no time for you or his own interests.
Nailed it. I didn't even know he had interests until he was permanently crippled.
Jesus that is sad
It really is. I can't help but pity him. In the end his alcoholism made him too nasty to continue a relationship with. I just hope he can overcome it and enjoy his life someday, even if with one less of his kids since I'm gone.
There is a apartment building going up very close to my house.
I know those guys start working before 7am.
I've never worked construction, so it took me a while to figure out that the constant air horn blasts are them making sure everyone knows that the crane is about to start moving.
We've started hearing the horns by 645am at the latest over the last several weeks.
I work in automotive repair in a big city with a scheduled start time of 8:00am. Ironically, I rely on public transport because I can’t afford a car which means my alarm clock is set for 5:15am. I live eight miles from where I work
None of this is sustainable
EDIT: To everyone suggesting I bike, that’s off the table. I live in NYC
Have you looked into buying a car with a salvaged title? You can find perfectly driveable beaters at the junkyard auctions that were totalled by the insurance company from minor cosmetic damage.
Yup, no one is getting out of bed at 7 lol. Construction starts EARLY
I'm in my camper next to my job site right now. 3 hours from home yeah it sucks but this is honestly the easiest job I've ever had it's shit loads of hours but I only work just iver half the year and I take home about 2500 a week which is pretty good for the middle of nowhere midwest. I enjoy it
Y'all hiring damn
I get paid well for my job but i still really hate waking up at 4am to go do heavy labor. It is what it is
This is the boat I’m in. Paid very well for my area but have to get up at 1am and straight into vigorous manual labor. It’s all good right now but i know that one day my muscles will start deteriorating instead of building when i rest
Well, the muscles always build. The problem is the joints.
Jesus Christ. I feel this comment in my elbows, knees AND back. Even my knuckles hurt!
Brother make a plan. I literally just had yo quit being a union pipefitter. Not because I don't work hard as a commercial refrigeration and H/A tech/installer but because I'm type 1 and almost died the first week of above 90 and 85% humidity passing out throwing up on a roof. To wake and go down to fix my blood sugar due to throwing up being dehydrated and possible heat stroke. I went back up to finish and that was it. I'm now looking for anything I can do for more than 30 as I was at 33 with 2 years in the union of a 15 year carrear. So even if I started in the union I wouldn't have made the pension. So luck to have parents who just say ok what do you need and can it wait till Monday to the cobra letter I soon got in the mail while throwing up multiple times a day and trying new meds. Wild ass ride and have no clue if I will ever have enough to survive. Being type 1 in america ain't cheap even with great insurance.
This is why I quit being a Mason after ten years. I was down in FL midsummer and got hit with heat exhaustion hard. My piss looked like yoohoo somedays. I took a job as a sales rep for a company across the state and ended up becoming a production manager. Pay was better, no more throwing up because of heat exposure
The mental health side effects of diabetes are never spoken about. As a type 1 too, going low is always my fear and I've had to quit jobs as well. There's tons of things we must physically limit ourselves on but remember if you can't do, then teach. Good luck.
The humidity at the first heat wave got me and I just want to be alive to take care of others.
I get up at 4am to do roofing, I really enjoy the group of guys I do it with and the pay is great but the work is the shittiest thing ill probably ever have to do, construction jobs are tough and not for everybody but you gotta bite the bullet sometimes if you want to get the bills paid and have food on your table
Construction pay around me isn't bad. The contractors on the other hand are god awful and no amount of pay is worth working for a corner cutting price gouger.
My industry went through a terrible time during Covid. My suppliers fired almost all of their warehouse staff except their warehouse managers and maybe a few other employees as demand was way down.
As the industry has gotten back, 2 of my major suppliers have more or less kept up by hiring people or temps to fill the voids. One has continued to have problems. They've had 5 day shipping lead times for at least 12 months now out of their 5 major shipping hubs. So I got curious and looked up if they had ads up for hiring.
$13/hr for a warehouse gig in Connecticut. Big surprise they have no staff. Every other warehouse is likely paying $18-22/hr and they're paying $13/hr. Who the fuck would even consider working for them?
This has been my life since 16. Work to pay bills from week to week. 5 or 10 cent raises and your told you have to live for the company. Instead of getting a hand out or a hand up. Your years go buy and age go's ex-wife go and you end upnwith nothing. You never been able to save because it takes everything you make. They could care less if you we able to buy a car or a house or food on the table just do the work your told to.
My work and it's partner companies are doing the same thing; they laid off tons of people during the pandemic because they said it was affecting profits (CEO still got 6 figure bonus...). Work load increased exponentially for me and others with no raise. Now they are bringing back those jobs they got rid of but at -15,000 from what they used to pay with higher requirements and can't figure out why nobody wants them.....
Name and shame if it's a company we might know.
I think they still need to eat.
What are they gonna do?
Fire the only ones still wanting to do the job?
You'd be surprised, but yeah. They would totally do that. First rule about being a boss in the trades is flexing your dick and second is actual profits. If the profits get too low you just pay your workers less until you're back in jetski territory.
[Oh yeah look at Maine](https://news.yahoo.com/maine-town-reportedly-shut-down-162943091.html) stupid cannot be fixed
Ironically there is still someone available who denies vacation requests but no one who does actual work.
Yes. They will. They give no fucks.
Most companies will because them not having their employees doing exactly what they want and being a "team player" (fucking hate this phrase which means jump when I say jump and jump exactly the way I tell you to jump) is worse than a short labor pool that will only be like 5% shorter
Wells Fargo closed quite a few locations in the past couple years in my area. They only have one teller available at the remaining in person locations. The tellers tell me they cannot find staff. I bet if they paid $20 plus an hour they could find staff. They have less banks to staff so easily could afford to pay more with annual raises to encourage people to stay.
Sorry to hear, but thats typical. Lay off people and tell you how good of a worker you are ,then if you ask for a little raise. They say No. Even though your covering 2 to 4 peoples work. Then they actually think you should stay loyal. And if your 1099 its even worse. They increase the work and cut your pay every year.
Don't do the extra work. If you're covering the work of 2-4 extra people, they're going to see that you're *able to*, and they have no reason to hire new people.
I wish you better brother.
Never loyal to a company or job that long. Two to three years. Maybe five if they had a progressive vested 401k and actually contributed to it.
Demand training, continuing Ed, work until I’m stuck at a pay or career plateau and jump to the next big raise with more responsibilities.
Done that for fifteen years and have done fairly well. Did have to change careers though - working in a factory in the US only goes so high.
I worked unloading for a local bookstore trying desperately to not be murdered by Amazon as my first full time job ever. Minimum wage, which btw was 7.25 a decade ago.
I was young at the time so my buddy who got me the job and I would joke our job was "pick things up and put things down" which wasn't that far from reality other than occasionally helping shelve.
We're talking boxes of books occasionally in excess of 200 lbs, I would get home every day and have to lie in bed for an hour just to be able to recover to then do all the other shit I needed to do.
I'm now 33 and have severe chronic back pain and arthritis in basically every joint in my body.
Now, based on family history I would have had that in my fifties, but gee, I wonder if breaking down my body for $14,000 a year, which meant I still needed welfare to live, had anything to do with my disability happening so young in my life 🤔
My boss and the owner of the company gave me a 25 cent raise after a year, and got all pissy because I didn't seem *grateful enough.*
> Now, based on family history I would have had that in my fifties, but gee, I wonder if breaking down my body for $14,000 a year, which meant I still needed welfare to live, had anything to do with my disability happening so young in my life
This is why I always hire moving companies. It's a teeny tiny price to pay to keep a healthy, functioning body.
Literally none of the 9 people in my class (myself included) that took a course for trade school electricians work are still in the trade 4 years out. And it’s all for the same reason: Shitty management continues to string new hires along as apprentices, and then uses them as general laborers that get let go if they ask to be sent to night school.
I worked a job with shittier pay outside of the trades instead of hunting around endlessly since they weren’t going to let me go after a couple months by text, while telling me to go and work for them again later after another company trained me. Fucking wasted 3 years being strung along by a couple companies.
> What he really said is "No one wants to get out of the bed at seven o'clock in the morning for a absolutely abysmal pay".
Make it 5 AM if you need to be at work at 7. Spend the whole day outside in scorching heat or freezing. Then you get home with all the energy zapped out of you. Wash/rinse/repeat…..
Fick that. I've done that before. Digging footers for a house in the mid winter, nah no more. Not for 10 an hour when my feet are wet. Trying to find a job is cancerous
I did residential framing in the summers in Phoenix back in high school. I absolutely hated it for those very reasons. I typically had to be up at 3 to get to the jobsite at 4 so we could be done by noon.
But as an unskilled laborer just starting out, I was making $12/hour, which was more than double AZ's minimum wage in 2002. Being able to make about $6,500 a summer as a teenager made that absolute hell worth it.
That's it! There are a lot of shitty news saying "this multimillionaire company can't find anyone to watch plants grow".
It's because it doesn't fucking pay you, that's why they can't find someone, in my country there is literally a job shortage, people think is normal to search for a couple of months for a job before even getting a negative response! What the fuck is this crap?
“Nobody wants to work” …at the wages you want to pay.
It's because media has been deregulated and the same lobbies that own politicians own most news sources.
I know a lot of people working construction non union jobs are around $25 an hour. The ones in a union are over $30 for laborers and around $40 for skilled trades.
Construction is all over the place. Generally speaking, there has always been a reliance on cheap labor to do some of the work. Whether it's demo, landscaping, or being a "helper". These people theoretically eventually get a bump in pay as they learn, but there's no doubt that at least some of the labor is done by guys earning considerably less than that $25-40/hr.
The term for construction is being thrown really loosely on this thread. Infrastructure jobs will pay more than some general laborer in house construction.
I'm a civil engineer working on the construction side. My current job site is non unionized. Workers are paid very well, around 20 an hour minimum on an average of 50 hrs a week with standard 1.5x ot. Foremen and laborers are also given a healthy per diem subsidy of 1500 and 750 respectively per month regardless of local or not.
Certified operators such as crane operators are paid 40-55 an hour
All complaints about work ethic or worker shortages need to be follwed by "for the amount we pay"
"We cant find enough workers... for the amount we pay"
"No one wants to work anymore... for the amount we pay"
"Young people don't want to work... for the amount we pay"
Anyone leaving out the 2nd half is trying to take advantage of someone else and obviously doesn't believe in having a free and fair market.
>No one wants to work a hard job and still be poor.
People refuse to understand this. They know it, even the employers know it but they'd rather shame youth than accept they're the problem.
Man, I am jobless for the last few months because I just look recruiters and interviewers dead in the eye and say, what's the salary and is it permanent. They don't even bother replying. Fuck them all.
I'm actually happier than I've been in the ten years since finishing my degree. Not commuting, working nights, weekends on contracts with no benefits. Fuck that lifestyle I'd rather be poor and happy than overworked miserable and still poor.
Woke up for years at 4 am to start work.
What happened was i gained weight, loss libido, cognitive functions declined, became extremely irritable to the point my girlfriend took issue, and was so dead tired we never could do anything in the week.
So yeah, even though i was paid extra, it wasn't worth it
I currently get up at 4am to work (opening shift at a coffee shop) and yep, would not recommend. Also trying to be an adult with a social life when you have to go to bed by 8 pm or you’re fucked is rough.
Trying to have real friends as an adult is rough period; YMMV.
I’ve had the same two friends since I was 13 and we just never stopped talking through sheer force of will. Making new friends as an adult is ungodly difficult.
Recently moved. No friends. Wew. At least i have drugs and alcohol.
I did the same thing for 4 years. We usually had no work during winter, so I had that at least, but I was basically a living corpse for 10 months of the year. Now I have a new job where we work all year round, but we start at 7 am. Still not great, but at least I'm not up at 5 every day. We also worked a lot of Saturdays, which basically meant that we had no time off. All the guys that worked with me referred to ~~Friday~~ Saturday as "yesterday" on Monday. Not even jokingly. It literally felt like Sundays didn't exist.
My wife worked as a baker for 10 years, she was a dedicated and reliable employee, they forced her to work weekends that entire time. She was up at 4 am working until about 2-5 pm every day that she worked. She finally got a new job after finishing school, and her quality of life has drastically changed, she sleeps until about 9am now and doesn’t have debilitating migraines, isn’t constantly tired, and honestly has the will to live again. Never once saw the owner get their lazy ass into the building before 10 am, they got all the benefits of her hard work while she suffered all of the sacrifice.
In the Balkans we have a saying, "Whoever gets up early is either crazy or a baker." (Tko rano rani il' je lud il' je pekar.)
I guess these days you're crazy either way because your employer is screwing you over.
I used to work to Walmart and switched from cashier to stocking shelves so I could have a steady shift (4 in the morning to 1 in the afternoon) I did it for about 6 months and I was so constantly exhausted. I had to get up at 3 in the morning to go to work and be relentlessly verbally abused by customers and/or my supervisor.
It made me suicidal and when I quit I told my store manager that I would rather be homeless than work there again. It had made me suicidal and depressed and im still trying to recover. I will never do another job like that again
I get up at 4 for 5:30a.m. start time, the 4 day week is well worth the long hours to have 3 days off every weekend.
Man, big agree. I could *never* do this 4am wake-up on a 5-day week. Picked up an extra shift last week between my two 2-day blocks to make it into a 5-day stretch, and it was without a doubt the most miserable I've been at this job. Sure, the paycheck was nice, but I felt like shit near the end.
Sadly i had the 5 days a weel thing:p
I get paid the same to work an office job, where I choose my start time, as I did working as a journeyman plumber. I also don't destroy my body or tolerate verbal abuse.
Why would I go back to the jobsite when most companies want to hire 40 guys for a project and lay half of them off in 3 months? Why would I want to compete with the hundreds of other resumes on the plumbing companies' desks? Better pay and job security are the only reasons and neither exist.
Edit: this got a lot more attention than I thought it would. Some points that came up that I've answered multiple times:
1. Just because there are a lot of jobs available in YOUR area, doesn't mean they are EVERYWHERE. Geography can be a real bitch when you work in the trades.
2. I'm not telling you where I work. Suffice it to say that it's trades-adjacent and I make journeyman rate for MY AREA but now I'm in a union with pension and kickass benefits.
3. I understand that some people are able to make it as a self employed tradesperson, high up union job and more. But those positions aren't available, or realistic to just anyone who gets a job in the trades.
4. "DeSk JoBs ArE bAd." Go ahead and stay on the tools for as long as you want. Let me know how your knees are doing 10 years from now.
Funny I left an office job to join a union for better pay.
I'm working from home AND in a union. Education sector is pretty neat 👍
edit: to answer the billion people asking what I do, IT for an Ohio college
Except for the pay part
a problem that would be solved with higher wages.
I see ads looking for construction/labor workers that are $2 above minimum wage. Then they say you need your own tools and truck. People are expected to afford tools and a truck, making the same as the people at the coffee shop, if not less due to tips.
If you have tools and a truck you’re much better working for yourself. Only benefit of working for someone is learning thr market rates - once you have that info go hang your sign somewhere. Additionally, you don’t have to work for someone to learn that information.
That's true. My point was that it's insulting to offer those wages to someone they expect to already be equipped and trained to do a job. It's like some contractors are insulted that other people don't want to live on scraps to make someone else slightly richer. Of course, I'm a bit biased after finding out an ex-employer was charging for the use of the hammer I brought because they wouldn't buy suitable ones. That hammer made them a lot of money because of the way they charged for materials and labor outside of the contract...
> reluctance among younger people to “get out of bed for seven o’clock in the morning"
they forgot to add "for the shitty pay we're offering" to the end of their statement
I've never met a reasonably paid construction worker who wasn't happy to get out of bed as early as the company wanted to start at the job site or a reasonably paid construction worker
I have an office job now, but I did commercial roofing as a summer job during college. Hard work, and crazy hot in August. Woke up at 4:30 for a 6AM start a healthy drive away. I did all this willingly because it was a government contract paying 40~50 bucks an hour. For shit money I wouldn't even dream of doing that job, but if I can pay my rent for a whole year from 2 months of work, then sure, I'll listen.
IRS desk job here. At $100 an hour I will clean your septic tank with a toothbrush with a smile on my face while whistling Britney Spears' Toxic.
Its always about the pay.
How much for "Baby One More Time"?
That’s because the ones who aren’t happy to do it aren’t construction workers anymore.
I think my subtlety was too subtle. It meant to read ultimately I've never met a reasonably paid construction worker
Edit: I think my friend that are in construction are not in unions. Glad to hear many people in construction do well, my experience was over narrow and I was wrong
I work for the IBEW local 46 in seattle. If youre a journeyman electrician working commercial construction you can make 70+ an hour. The key is unions.
Anecdotal, but I own a plumbing company and have absolutely zero problem finding top tier plumbers. It's funny how easy it is to find skilled employees when you pay a good wage, have good benefits, treat them like human beings, etc.
Id like to learn how to be a plumber!
There are multiple ways to do it. I know you can do technical colleges or apprenticeships along with some basic schooling, but I believe there are more. Personally, I recommend the apprenticeship **if** you can find a good master plumber to train you because there are some out there that...let's say, aren't that good and will only hurt your education. Just like in most jobs, you'll learn far more working on the job than you could ever learn in a classroom, but the classroom bit helps to learn things like plumbing code and other regulations; which might not come up on the job site unless you specifically ask or are involved in the inspection process.
Puts a job listing on social media and just assumes there's so few applicants because of a 7am shift? More likely the pay is awful, or not disclosed.
However, my generation was told our whole lives to go to college and get a good education for good jobs. Not that construction workers are uneducated, but it's hard labor and people are attending college instead of learning trades, etc. These kinds of jobs are tough on the mind and body, and you better be offering good pay/benefits to make it more attractive.
I don't necessarily blame people for avoiding this type of work when "make 500k/year as a software dev from home!" is advertised and misleading people all over the Internet.
It seems like basic economics. If there is a high demand for tradesmen/construction, but low supply, a high salary can make it more attractive.
But it's easier to blame something trivial like waking up early in the morning instead of raising wages for jobs you so desperately need.
Get out of bed at 7? You’ll be 1-2 hours clocked in already by 7 at most construction jobs lol.
*"The cost of living has increased, but we have not increased pay. Why doesn't anyone want to sacrifice their body for paychecks that force you to live week-to-week with no savings, no financial security, and minimal job security?"*
It's a real conundrum.
Sure there is no agenda here, it’s totally just us lazy millennials not wanting to work. Has nothing to do with shitty pay, nope just a bunch of lazy freeloaders right?
I do occasional days on construction sites, couldn’t imagine doing it full time. Even worse if they’re in a big city, imagine trying to be in central london for 7am for not much more than minimum wage. Anyway, I digress, companies need to get their shit together and realise the free market is a two way street
RTÉ (Irish) radio had a panel discussion on this issue on Saturday morning. One of the interviewees had completed some research in this area. His conclusion was that all types of employers are fighting over a small pool of potential employees and that young people are opting to work in a call centres over construction because they offer the same pay (initially at least) and there is less hardship.
The necessity to do a shitty job or work for a shitty boss no longer exists for a lot of people and employers have a very hard time adjusting to that. It's no longer an employer's market but an employee's market.
So... adapt or perish, employers. If people hate starting at 7 in the morning (not getting up at 7, mind you), change to office hours. Be flexible, pay and treat you employees decently and see a lot of these problems disappear as snow in the sun.
It might not even be the pay. It might just be a shitty job. If this guys right he already knows the solution. If nobody is willing to start at 7am, start at 9am. Problem solved. If it’s working 12 hour days cut them down to two 6 hour shifts. Stop whining and demanding everyone else fix your problems for you.
"Stop whining and demanding everyone else fix your problems for you."
The irony is that this is exactly what these assholes say to their employees and as such why the employees "fix their problems" by refusing to work for said assholes. They can't seem to understand their own responsibilities as employers.
They lack the self awareness to know they create the problems
I’ll do a shitty job if the pay is worth it. But the days of grinding it out to make a living are long gone. No one wants to work 40 hours a week to barely scrape by. If im working a 40 hour week at a shit job I expect my life outside of work to be quite comfortable and worth the effort.
Other than avoiding summer heat I don't understand why construction jobs start so early in the morning and then they end it 3 or 4.
Shoot , I get paid well as an electrician in construction. Waking up at 4 am is still hard. I’ll never get used to it.
From the point I leave in the morning (4:30 - 7:30) to the point I get home (5:30 - 8 [except that one time it was 2am]) is never 8 hours.... Or 9 hours...
Where I live, they have to be \*\*on the job\*\* by 7:00AM, not just "out of bed" by 7 AM
I preferred the 7am start to be honest, but I worked in commercial construction for a couple of years. It just gave me so much more of the afternoon to myself or my side jobs
I started work at 7 A.M. for 20 years. Beginning your day that early means getting up at 5-5:30 in the morning, leaving the house at 6:15, working until at least 5 in the evening, and then fighting traffic to get home between 5:30-6 P.M. if you’re lucky. So even if you’re only working an 8 hour day, it’s still a 12 hour day, and then you have all the normal household chores to do when you get home. It’s fucked and it burns you out.
Edit: There’s a lot of confusion because I wasn’t clear enough. We had an unpaid hour lunch and it wasn’t the kind of work you can just pack up at 8 hours and go home. If you’ve got a team of people and equipment an hour away from the shop and you’ve already worked an eight hour day, but there’s still an hour and a half of work left (which was normal not rare), then you just have to get it done. Can’t drag a team of people and equipment out the next day to do an hour of work. I was going by averages. Most days I left the house at 6:15 and got home around 6. I absolutely would’ve loved an early start and early finish, but that just wouldn’t work in my field. There’s too much shit to drag around.
So even on ideal days, which were rare, it was still a 9 hour day plus fighting 45 minutes of traffic to work and back. Didn’t exactly leave a lot of time for life.
I don’t even understand how people with that kind of schedule can even have kids. It seems so absolutely soul crushing and you barely get to see your children compared to the “normal” 9-5 (which doesn’t really let you see your kids a whole lot anyway)
I work a 7am-5pm job. Previous comment is right. I leave my house by 6:10am to get back around 6:20pm, that's 12 hrs I'm away from home. I come back dead and barely do any chores. Mostly leave everything for my day off, other than dishes.
I've come to the conclusion that I'm just not having kids. For so many reasons but majority work/money issues. I know I can get another job but the commutes could be worse, I have a friend who does 2 hr commutes and I just die at that thought. Not only that, the pay isn't great to afford daycare. My partner isn't earning enough for me to be a housewife so....no kids.
Also, coming from a low income family that required 2 working parents to survive, having kids is easy. Raising them is what is hard. I'm self-raised since I was like 8. Staying home alone with the neighbors next door for emergencies kind of thing. It's a tough environment to grow up in.
Having =/= raising, sadly.
I work in a trade with this schedule, and the real answer is that you don't. Multiple coworkers of mine miss most of their kids' lives, putting off school events and even birthdays to be at work
Seriously. When people say work in the trades, just understand that this is the lifestyle.
". . . we got about two applications."
Is two a number that you need to approximate? Were they rounding? Did one of the applications can sort of torn in the mail so was only 0.75 of an application?
Is this guy working in a trade where you regularly lose fingers so his ability to count has been significantly reduced?
I'm betting they got 2 applications. One for someone they would actually hire, and the other for someone who barely qualifies or filled out the application. It doesn't matter though because they need that guy since they want to hire 35.
The dude is probably pissed that a guy barely filled out the application and he is going to get the job. He probably already assumes he'll be a bad employee too. So now he is venting to the media.
It's a very shitty low-value job, so that guy who barely filled out the application is probably gonna get duped.
Work hard and remain poor and die hard
It's never "we pay low wages and don't provide flexible work hours". It's always "young people are just lazy". 🤷♀️
Part of me kinda wonders(cause I feel it myself) if part of the reason this generation doesn't bend over backwards for jobs is cause unlike before us where they felt like they were working towards retirement and freedom, most of us expect everything to be so fucked up we'll be lucky to even make it to retirement age.
It's really just simple economics. Rent and living expenses are at all-time highs but many employers feel they don't need to raise wages. Who wants to work a grueling physical job and live on the edge of homelessness?
It’s not about getting out of bed at 7am…it’s about many jobs paying for 8-5 work but requiring you arrive at 7am for check in and meetings.
I’ve always hated this, every job I’ve ever had has tried to pull this shit and every job I’ve had to politely but firmly tell them no. Even McDonalds wanted me to show up half an hour early, unpaid, to count cash. Now I work for an ambulance service where I’m also expected to show up early.
And I do show up early so that the shift I’m taking over from can go home and don’t get kept late, but when management act as if I’m *required* to be early it’s nice telling them that actually, I’m not, and they can discuss the issue with my trade union representative if they wish :P
I used to do a lot of gig work and it's *absolutely unreal* just how many employers expect workers to work extra time without pay. They usually frame it as, "Show up 15 minutes early so you're on time" while strongly insinuating that it's mandatory. What's equally unbelievable is just how many employees are just okay with it. They see themselves as "good workers" because they show up early all eager to work while completely getting taken advantage of.
Seven? Every construction job I've had STARTED at 7. So it's more like wake up at 530.
Carpentry, drywall, three cabinet shops, all 7am start.
"for" now. You clock in at 7.
That means you're getting up at 5 at best, more like 4, since you need to s-cubed, dress, commute, and get to wherever the goddamn muster point is by 7.
Source: used to work in construction
Shit shower n shave
This is just more "*but nobody wants to work!!!!*" whining.
Pay more. Pay them enough to make it worth getting out of bed at 7am to do a high skill job with backbreaking work.
Feel like early starts and weird hours are part of the gig for construction.
Maybe if you paid more, you'd get more construction workers to apply to your job.
Treat workers like shit
"its young people being lazy that is the issue"
Gan tae fuck
Pay more money and/or start later.
Problem solved: you’re welcome.
>“The hours that we work, a lot of our projects will start at seven in the morning. I’d be perfectly honest, there’s an awful lot of young people that don’t like getting out of the bed for seven o’clock in the morning and that’s just a fact,”
Change the working hours then?
As a young lad, I had my fair share of working "in a trade". This experience made me turn to college education and get a comfy engineer office job. It had nothing to do with job itself. It's the toxic environment. Old farts who know everything the best and mock young people, stupid things like starting work at 6am for no apparent reason other than "that's how it's done", terrible scheduling that management refused to acknowledge so they gave pointless tasks to hide their lack of competence and so on...
Union plumber here, with a college degree. Start time is 6AM and end time is 2 PM. Varies slightly depending on noise ordinances. Me and all my peers love 6AM start time - we beat traffic both ways. If anything, most guys want to start earlier (not me).
Translation; "People don't want to get up at 7am for pay that they could double by stocking shelves in Aldi. Surprised pikachu face!"
This is just a manager bitching that he can't hire anyone and blaming it on young people lol
These people are fucking trying everything except just admitting they pay shit.
Love seeing these assholes struggle.
People will do just about anything if the pay is worth it.
Sounds to me that the pay isn't worth it.
A lot of the problem is that most of the construction jobs are in Dublin but most of the recruiting is done outside Dublin. I know quite a few lads that are travelling upwards of two hours both ways as well as doing the day's work. The pay is better than what they'd get around here but it's a long day when travelling is factored in nevermind the nature of the work.
The reason fewer people are applying for these positions is simple. Some of these positions start at around 200 euro a week and to rent an apartment around me will set you back between 700 and 800 euro a month. It's literally cheaper to rent in Madrid than it is to rent in rural Ireland.
The article also didn't mention the wages that don't get paid. I once worked for a lad and the hours were supposed to be arrive at the yard at 7am and get back from the day's work at 5pm. That translated to arrive at the shed at 7 and spend anything up to an hour in the shed/prepping the van/doing whatever needed to be done before the day's work before a nearly 2 hour drive to the site. All unpaid. Lunch was often only as long as you needed to eat what you brought with you as you probably were going to be running late. Even though we were told we would be back in the yard by 5 or a little after it most days it was closer to 9pm before we would get home, meaning we wouldn't leave the site until 7 or 7.30 depending on where we were that day. All that extra work was unpaid also.
But hey, what do I know. I only lived that existence for a short while.
I bet the starting pay is crap.
My “favorite” was when the people I worked for needed extra help on a Saturday, and lured a bunch of us in by promising time and a half. Those assholes had us show up at the site at 7, but sent us home at noon. No, they hadn’t told us it would be a half day. The guys were *pissed.* “I got up early for this shit?!?” “You ruined my entire fuckin Saturday for five hours of work!”
The story became part of the company’s oral history. As a result, guess which company never, ever got any weekend work done again? Whenever we were asked (even months later, after much of the original crew had moved on) the first response was always “will it be a full day?” When the manager wouldn’t give a simple, immediate answer, that was all we needed. To hell with that.
that's such bs. plenty of kids wake up at 6-6:30 am to go to school. this is obviously a pay issue and not some "lazy kids" thing
Pay more and you'll get applicants. If you don't want to pay more, try starting your projects at 8 or 9. Free market baby.
“Workers desire adequate sleep and reasonable hours for quality work”
A living wage and human rights? Entitled much? /$
idk man there's something iffy about having to work a 40 hour work week to come home broke after bills and tax....
Meanwhile inflation is at an all time high but wages are the same
Shit don't add up