As requested! Same guy, same conversation.

As requested! Same guy, same conversation.


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Guys like this always remind me of my favorite part of The Social Network. "You're going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be true. It'll be because you're an asshole." At least you tried to clarify things for this guy


Honestly it’s such a perfect way of putting it. Sure, the guy op dealt with might be how he is because of his height, but the height in this situation is purely his problem


He’s average height in most places, just below in most of the rest. He’s just a dick.


My German mate was so excited when he moved in with us in Belfast - he was 5'8" and was mocked at home for 'being short' (only by men, he pointed out), but in Ireland he was tall!


He should move to southern Mexico. I went from being slightly above average to like a foot taller than every local


I can confidently guess your height is 5’11”


At 5'4", I should go to Mexico! I don't have a complex about my height, but it would be nice to not be notable for it.


We should *all* go to Mexico


Housing has never been cheaper!


I did the opposite; I hit my adult height pretty quickly, so I was 5’8” by 11 and was a giant; I’m 6’0” today and here in the states I’m average


6 feet is about 2 inches above average for men in the US, according to self-reported data. Also, men tend to overstate their height by about an inch.


That's confirmation bias. Average male height in the US is 5'9"


If a woman rejects you for not being tall enough, that's her problem not yours. I have seen and heard stories about men being rejected for their height. Once again, if you get rejected because you aren't 6ft or whatever, that's her problem not yours. It says more about her than you. The guy in the post is just an asshole and seems a bit manipulative.


irl I have never seen a man get turned down for how tall or short he is. I have heard women talk about how attracted they are to tall men but ya know I have a thing for ladies with glasses, doesn't mean not having them is a deal breaker


That's exactly what I was going for. If your height is a deal breaker for her then move on. Its not your problem. I have a preference to when it comes to women but I'm not going to turn someone down because she's not my ideal body type.


I like(ed) women that are taller than me, but I'm 6'2, so that really limits the pool in itself. It doesn't matter, because it's just something I liked, it wasn't anything close to a deal breaker. Otherwise, I wouldn't have married someone a foot shorter than myself.


I mean he could be right, that heightism is a real challenge that he does experience regularly. However. To undercut yourself when you find a match? Why? A victim mindset where you self sabatoge is worse than people being prejudiced against you.


Well she did say she preferred guys that rowed crew.


And that's just individual preference, but if NOBODY likes you, there's only one common denominator there.


I meannnn can't blame a girl for having those preferences. I wish I could look how armie hammer did in that movie. And I know I theoretically could but I know I don't have the self discipline or the drive.


The secret ingredient is human flesh.


I actually thought his brother was the more attractive one


Arnie hammer is terrifying lol wanting to cannabalize women overrides any beefcake hotness he might have had. Someone like Chris Evans is buff and actually kind.


...i mean there are other women


Rowing is the nerdiest sport there is. There's a reason why the two most famous rowing teams are Oxford and Cambridge


Not so much nerdy, as popular in the upper classes of society. It's not a commoner's sport, like football - soccer. The Boat Race is basically just 2 groups of men trying to show off. It's just that the 2 groups of men are students at two of the best universities in the world. I'd actually be interested to know what degrees members of the 2 teams were doing, and so how "nerdy" they actually are.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-mens-crew-boat-race-16077967.amp >I'd actually be interested to know what degrees members of the 2 teams were doing, and so how "nerdy" they actually are. There's a pretty large variety, this is Cambridge for example Matthew Holland Natural Sciences Natan Wegrzycki-Szymczyk Management Freddie Davidson engineering Sam Hookway Medical Sciences (surgery) Callum Sullivan Music Dara Alizadeh education, policy and international development Grant Bitler Real Estate Finance Though the transfer students tend to be the ones in the less nerdy subjects like management and Real Estate


I'm guessing the rowers from 100 years ago wouldn't dream of a time when someone doing a real estate finance degree would be at Cambridge, let alone doing the boat race!


Was his plan to debate someone into agreeing that he was a shitty person? I honestly don’t get this at all, it just defies logic honestly.




My friend does this to us all the time to the point where nobody wants to invite him to things anymore. He refuses any real help we offer like work opportunities, therapy recommendations, or just casual advice. But he'll just blurt out how bad he's feeling to you at a party or something and how he will never be happy because X and Y. Last time this happened I was fully aware of it and YET STILL I couldn't help but try to comfort this motherfucker. I was so mad after I left because I noticed myself being used IN REAL TIME and I would not stop it.


My entire maternal family is like this. Tbf their life is truly shitty, my uncle is an alcoholic, twice divorced, abusive man that rake up hundred thousands pound in debt due to gambling. They whine a lot, but every time I advise my mum or my granny to stop giving him money they keep defending him, saying if we don't give him money debt collector will kill him etc. I hate going home for this reason. I'm tired enough with my shit, I don't want to hear about how Uncle Barry just spent another 500 quid of grocery money on alcohol, for the 10th times this week, and the 100th time this shit happen this year. Doesn't help that money is tight due to Covid. Fuck you uncle Barry. Granny is suffering from dementia and the least you could do for her is to stop drinking alcohol and gambling.


We all have an Uncle Barry in our lives


My mom had a similar problem with opiates. My therapist suggested joining a NARCAN support group. It's a support group for families of addicts. It made me realize that I was enabling my mom when I would help her up after she fell or broke something etc. Not letting the addict face the full consequences of their actions is enabling. It sounds like your family is doing this, unintended of course. I'm glad it seems you've distanced yourself from the situation. Just some food for thought! I know you weren't seeking any advice, I could just relate.


Apologies for the unsolicited advice, but it sounds like your uncle should check in to a rehab facility. There might be more going on here, it's common for people with mental illnesses to turn to addictions (such as alcohol and gambling) because they can't manage their illness on their own. If that's not an option, he needs to move in with someone cause enabling him is not going to help.


Thanks for the advice, though I'm really trying to distance myself from him, so idk if I want to help him. I earn not a lot, so current I'm not a target for borrowing money, but once I showed that I care I'm afraid what he would do. After persuasion my mother no longer give him money, but she still pay for his kids (he have 3 and his 2nd wife can't raise them all, especially with debt over their head). Which is a lot, but she is too kind and the kids really don't do anything wrong (they are 10 yo and youger). My granny has diabetes and dementia, she probably has only 1-2 year more, so she comply with all he ask, since he was always her favourite. So forcing him into rehab will probably anger her (if he sweet talk her, which he has always done) and make her health worse. It's a complicate situation. He's 60 now, so I wonder is it still worth it. It's not like he can have a fresh start at life at 63 or whatever age rehab end. Sorry to suddenly said so much depressing stuff. It's been tiring lately. Hope you guys have a great day!


Sounds to me like Uncle Benny suffers from Asshole Personality Disorder.


It could be comforting to self sabotage. Cuz then you get a result you expect, so nothing changes and you can continue to wallow in self pity. Actually putting an effort is "risky". In the sense that you can't predict the result. So he might go on a great date and have fun or not. The possible rejection seems so bad to him that he just self sabotages. It's a stupid mentality in the end, but it's a common mechanism for defending your feelings. As long as nothing changes, nothing new can harm you. And since you already know the thing that harmed you up until now, you think it's fine. Something like "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know" type of thing. My mom does this with a lot of stuff.


This is correct. People reading this trying to logic out why this guy would think he's gaining something from this are missing the point. No one starts a dating app conversation with "There's no way you swiped right on purpose" if their goal is to get a date or improve their situation. But if they want to emotionally self harm? Yeah. Perfectly "logical" option. These guys need therapy. That's obvious to everyone. What seems to be less obvious is that, when you need therapy, but don't get it, you do dumb, irrational things that hurt yourself, possibly hurt other people, and look stupid as hell. If you weren't doing shit like that you... wouldn't...need...therapy.


His plan was to avoid rejection by rejecting himself preemptively. This wasn't a plan.


This person is a perfect example of the new term ‘pick me boy’, which means a guy who uses self depreciation in a manipulative way so a girl will date him. They will say bad things about themselves to try to get the girl to oppose what they’ve said. For example, if he says “I’m so ugly, no one will ever date me” then it would be considered pretty heartless to say “yeah, you’re right” so she’s obliged to say something like “no you’re not ugly. I’m sure someone will go out with you.” It’s actually a really insidious technique because she’s pressured by social norms to give him compliments and then when she inevitably has to reject him later on (usually after a lot of tactful methods of turning him down that he completely ignores) that allows him to accuse her of ‘leading him on’, which he’ll try and make her feel guilty for.


Man… this whole thread has put to words why my first “relationship” was so toxic. To this day I still feel like a horrible and disgusting person who has ruined his life because I decided to leave. He would just never listen to me. Everything was about him and his self-pity, and it was my responsibility to push down any of my own thoughts and feelings to do and say whatever he wanted me to. When I finally tried to put my foot down on my boundaries and break up with him, I was a “manipulative, backstabbing cunt. Sad thing is, I forgave him after that and agreed to stay friends. He still continued to try and hold me emotionally hostage and talk about “when we get back together”. I can’t even tell you how angry he got when I said I was dating other men. That’s when I finally got the nerve to block him completely. He claimed he would drink bleach. He had me convinced he would literally harm himself if I fully cut him out of my life. (I contacted his dad the day I blocked him just in case. He never did.)


Emotional blackmail. It's surprisingly effective and he probably uses it in every aspect of his life without realizing it. It's just not very effective with strangers who have no emotional attachment to you.


Nothing turns women on like self-pity


I knew someone like this. They want you to go "nooo that's not it!" Then shower them in compliments. You gotta "prove" that they're wrong and are actually wonderful. It's messed up


Rookie mistake. What u wanna do is trap them into a relationship and then ask them to be your therapist. Smh


Ikr. This fool went straight for the finisher, you gotta build up the relationship with fake confidence and charm and after you got to see every mole on her body THEN you can portray your true insecure, unhappy self deprecating blob of fat personality. Jokes aside I am 5’6, he isn’t even THAT short. And I’ve met shorter guys than me pulling up with bombshells because they don’t let their height get the best of them. A fun personality goes a longer way than looks, and sometimes really handsome people have really bland boring personalities (because they don’t have to hussle like some us).


My dad is 5'5 and has an older brother who was about the same height. My dad never let his insecurity get to him and he and my mom have been happily married for years. My uncle always blamed his height on why no women wanted him and lived a pretty miserable life. It's all about your perspective.


“I’m an expert I’ve watched love island”


Lol my favorite was "I've done research on it for 10 years now." Like, my guy, Love Island is not research.


It was also bad research because the guy that won season 3 was like 5'6


Also Nas from S6 is a mega cutie who's been with his stunner gf for a year now, if I remember she may have even been a little taller than him? Hard to tell


Pretty sure it's worse than that... He follows up that line with "(18-28)". Meaning his "10 years of research" is just his own dating life from the ages of 18 to 28. Women not liking him *must* be because he's short! It's *proof!* It's also noteworthy that this is a 28-year-old man acting like this. There is no hope for him.


Not only is it not research, it's a non-falsifiable and self reinforcing thought pattern. Here is a guide to similar mental traps that I found helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/comments/p0ymvq/advice_cognitive_distortions_and_how_to_counter/


Wait til he finds out that love island doesn’t really portray a general perspective on relationships


Also done research from age 18-28 on the subject. Like how?


Obviously by setting up experiments with rigorous controls, large sample numbers, and fastidious peer review. Definitely not just whinging for 10 years about his own personal experience.


Love Island UK: 7 seasons, 25 contestants per season, it’s a good sample size!


He clained that he has researched from age 18 to 28 and somehow think Love Island is a good representation of real life dating and relationships. He's an asshole AND a dumbass.


Also don’t they pick the people with the worst personalities to be on these reality TV shows to generate drama?


Dude enters a woman bathroom "hey! Do you want to date me" "Eww! No! Gross, get the fuck out of here!" ... "Conclusion, woman don't want to date short men"


18 was the first time a girl talked to him, that’s when his research started


You mean to tell me that putting hot 20somethings on a exotic tropical island with the express intent for them to hook up isn’t how real relationships work!? (Although tbf tinder isn’t much different lol)


Love Island is definitely not "exotic" or "tropical" It's just one of the islands just south of Spain (Ibiza or Mallorca can't remember which.) Which is the most basic holiday destination for anybody from the UK.


They really need to make it Illegal to call it 'reality' TV


bullshit... next you'll tell me the years worth of porn ive studied doesn't portray a perfect depiction of how to please a woman


Waiting until she gets stuck in a dryer is definitely the play when it comes to turning a woman on.


And if he was up to date on the new season at all he’d know that the guy that’s been in the strongest couple (at least for the US delay, no spoilers pls) is 5 ft 8.


And then he seemingly claims it as his life experience. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was doing massive projection and just figured that because other men were rejected for height, that’s why women rejected or would reject him, and therefore the experience of those men is now his life experience.


I’ll see if I can get some dates… oh a date! You definitely don’t want me this was an accident and I know that all women want a man who by definition is not me for certain. Let me explain your own feelings to you. WHY WON’T WOMEN DATE ME?!? I KNEW I WAS TOO SHORT!!!! What a terrible brain to be stuck in. I feel a lot worse for that guy than most of the guys on here.


Me too. Oof. Like, dude, you blew what could have been a great relationship with your first THREE messages. If you quit wallowing in self-pity and tried making a connection, you’d find a lot of women don’t care about your height.


Especially 5'8". Dude nuked himself.


That's literally average height in a decent number of developed nations. Assuming he's American, that's an inch below average. It's not like women just carry around measuring tape with them to measure prospective partners. Most people wouldn't be able to tell you he's an inch shorter than average until they were explicitly told


I'm 5'5". The struggle is real for short guys on Tinder. This guy handles it the worst way possible. You're better off not mentioning height at all and trying your best to be funny and charming. Sure, some women are very discriminatory about height but they are probably not people you want to date anyway. Realistically you're best off meeting people IRL where your personality becomes more important than your physical stats. Tinder is fucking weird and superficial and a bad representation of the real world. It's also 90% men. Also FYI for the women, if you delete your account on Tinder, they keep your profile up and attach it to a bot to artificially increase the number of women on Tinder. Tinder is mad sketchy.


So about this bot thing… Back when I was on tinder, I had it like a day, got overwhelmed and ‘hid’ it for a week, then when I came back, two guys said to me we already matched before and did I change my mind. I knew for a fact we hadn’t because I actually care and pay attention. I thought they had confused me with someone else (I had blue hair in my main photo, no filters no makeup and very distinctive eyes so doubtful) or it was a bad PUA thing. Is it possible they were actually right and something nefarious had occurred in my absence?


Absolutely. It’s really frustrating to see. Especially when some women will delete their tinder, only to download it again and have two similar accounts on the app, one run by them, the other by bots. > Of course they could’ve been lying, but I think if someone leads with ‘do you remember me’ they might actually be genuine. > Still a dumb question to ask though


Almost definitely. Tinder will do creepy things in your absence. They will even match your profile with guys and send them messages from your account and make those messages invisible to you. They know guys are their primary income source and they will abuse women's profiles to make the guys more interested in Tinder. There's been investigations on Tinder that will turn your stomach. This is just a tiny part of the sketchy stuff they do.


THAT IS FUCKED. If there’s ANYTHING I fucking hate, it’s people putting words in my mouth. So I’ve deleted it now because I’m in a relationship. But I suppose I am to assume that tinder is using my identity to talk to men, potentially men my partner and I know in real life? I’m about ready to catch some murder charges over this. Who the fuck do they think they are, messing with people like that?! Even Facebook isn’t as shitty as THAT. Fuck.


You're gonna need some very strong citations on this one before I come even close to believing it. There surely is a bot and fake account issue. Accounts are made with stolen names and stolen pictures. Of this, there is little to no doubt, because it happens everywhere and is difficult to control. Tinder actively using a real, but inactive, human's account to post fake messages would be utterly insane. That could not only be dangerous but also could lead to all kinds of confusion and mistrust and maybe even claims of impersonation or whatever else. Is it impossible for them to do that? No, of course not. But I'd need to see some hard data produced by legitimate researchers before I would accept that tinder would do something like that. (I could easily be wrong and do hope someone can cite some data, because if they really are doing that, it'd be utterly fascinating)


I’ve looked everywhere and I can’t find any investigations about Tinder using your profile after you delete it or sending messages that are invisible to yourself. Doubt.


Probably just some bot or scammer stole someone's profile and this stupidity got started as a rumor.


Do you have a source for that?


I don’t care if a guy is shorter than me. I’ve dated guys shorter than me. Just don’t tell me to throw out my heels and we’re fine. 😂 If you ask me politely to wear flats around you, I will. If you borderline demand I get rid of hundreds of dollars worth of my possessions, I’ll get rid of you instead. 😜


Well yeah that's them being insecure. I don't mind a women being taller than me so why should heels matter? Wear whatever you want. Plus heels can be sexy anyway. They make your legs and butt look good. I have mad respect for anyone who can walk in them. Looks difficult.


My first girlfriend had a height rule; while wearing heels the guy still has to be taller. She would not lean down to kiss a man. She was naturally quite tall without heels.


That's insane to me. I can't even imagine that at 5'8; let alone a very good friend of mine who's 6'1-6'2 without heels. Guys have issues with her height because it's somehow emasculating to them, but she's never been judgmental. If she had that same heels rule, she'd only be able to date NBA players, basically....


Yeah I hear you. A friend of mine is 6 foot and gorgeous but she owns every inch of it and couldn’t give a crap about her height the same way a lot of taller girls do. There was a lady near me years ago where I loved that was super tall and middle aged and she had the worst hunch from where she clearly tried to make herself appear shorter. I’m 6’4 so a tall woman is great but it’s not a prerequisite.


I’m 6’1 without heels and was rejected by more than one man who was 6’5 and up because I was too tall. I never had an issue with height, one of my biggest crushes was 5’4 and he was in no way attracted to me because of my height which was a bummer. But at least I could pick him up and move him when he got annoying ;)


I've had women write me off for that reason but I've also dated women taller than me who didn't care at all. I don't really have a "type" myself so stuff like that seems silly to me. For me it's more about how a person wears themselves and what they're about. I do find grace and talent very attractive. I've been attracted to tall and short women, petite and thick. I've also been disgusted by people who others thought were super hot.


“Super hot” aesthetically speaking can soon look super ugly once you scratch the surface and see how shallow and superficial they are. Very unattractive traits.


Just work “Short Kings Anthem” by TMG into every date you go on.


I genuinely don't notice men's height unless: 1) they're shorter than me (5'4") which is rare and I honestly dgaf 2) they're stupid tall (6'5") which I'm not crazy about, not trying to go free solo for a kiss here OR 3) they complain about it. Other than than my mind tells me 'taller than me' and that's about it. I'd date a short dude, physically I'm way more into a nice smile than ability-to-put-things-where-I-can't-reach.


My boyfriend went to the doctor recently and found out he was 5'8" rather than the 5'10" we thought he was. Had a good laugh about it, and continued on as normal. It really doesn't matter. I'm 6'0", for context, and even then neither of us give a shit. We love each other.


People will go to the doctor for anything these days!


well damn if i woke up one day and the top two inches of my head was gone id see a dr too


5'7" guy here, I've literally only dated 2 women shorter than me my entire life. 5'8"-6'5" the rest of them. Not once was height a discouraging factor, infact most of em actually loved it. Jetpack gang rise up!! 😁 Edit: goodbye extra word lol


Yeah I don't get what the big deal is. I have some tall lady friends who wouldn't date "short" men, but it was never about the men themselves, and more about the fact that they were self-conscious about their height or had other body issues and didn't want to feel *big* next to a potential partner. But that's the only time I've ever heard any women care about height...I don't care, personally. Had bfs who were 6', had bfs who were 5'5' (I'm 5'6"). IDGAF about your height, just be a good person


I’m 5’10 and I feel like I’m HUGE next to a shorter boyfriend. I’ve had people tell me how tall I am my whole life and the shorter guys I’ve dated always seem to point it out and it drove me nuts. It gets old guys. I know I’m tall. I’m nearly 6 foot in most shoes. I also wear a lot of tacky outfits and have big purple hair bc I LIKE to stand out most of the time but something about shorter men makes me feel fat and masculine


I don't think I've ever met a woman who is 6'5"... at least then you know she almost certainly doesn't have a "guy must be taller than me" rule (unless she only dates NBA players).


exactly my boyfriend is 5’5” and i love him with my entire heart and soul it literally doesn’t matter!


I really don’t get this. I’m a 5’8” guy. I’ve dated 4’11”, and I’ve dated 6’2”. Maybe it’s the individual guy that’s the problem??? Nah, couldn’t be.


Seriously that's not even really short is it? Maybe my perception is skewed because my family is mostly short and height really does not impress me but 5'8 seems fine?


Everyone is the same height lying down


Beer guts are much taller than regular guts.


I doubt that this guy has the ability to maintain a healthy relationship without going to therapy first. This isn't a "behave in the first date" issue, those are serious problems.


I'm around 5'9 and am taller than most girls I know. The girls who care about the number 6 I don't wanna know either.


This is pretty much incels in a nut shell: resigned themselves to a self fulfilling prophecy. "I had a few bad experiences so now Im convinced I won't ever find a partner so I'm just going to make myself as undesirable and possible and complain about how no one desires me." Facts are some of these guys are actually pretty cool and if they put in more effort on their hygiene and grooming, and less time wallowing in a situation they've largely put themselves in, they could totally find a match.


Vicious cycle meets self-fulfilling prophecy.


This made me realise I sometimes am a “nice gal”


Being able to acknowledge it is huge. Best of luck to you and your journey


“What a terrible brain to be stuck in.” This statement gave me pause. After reading this, I realized how much I believe that we are not just victims of our own brains, but that we do have at least a modicum of control over our perceptions beginning with introspection. While yes you cannot change your personality, I think you can at least try to objectively look inward at yourself and realize you sound like an ass.


I dunno, I think you can change your personality. It's just a lot of work, and more discipline than a lot of people allow themselves. People like this go from start to 10 without much thought and they don't even for a second think about stopping to take a breath.


Oh for sure we can and should examine our beliefs and try to do so objectively but it’s really hard sometimes. We get stuck in these loops that constantly prove themselves true as long as we’re applying warped logic. It doesn’t make this guy happy to think he’s never going to find someone so why is he doing it? Is he looking at this objectively? Is reality tv really the best source for any information? Is he certain every rejection was because of his height? How does he know that? Would it be more productive not to mention issues you’ve had with past women’s perception of you? Would it be more productive to treat each woman like an individual person? My original comment was super sarcastic and oversimplified but I seriously hope this guy finds a way past this because it is a lot more sad than the “I’m god’s gift to women” mentality of the typical Nice Guy.


You are not incorrect, but what I think is missing here is the empathy or understanding that taking that control is easier said than done. Depending on how engrained your behaviors and self loathing are it can take *a lot* of hard work and introspection just to get to the part where you can identify in retrospect that you could have handled something differently. Nevermind in the moment or before the behavior makes a public appearance. We are ultimately in control, true. But it can be difficult to learn to forgive yourself so you can take control without the fear or aversion of accountability for that control.


He got super bad self-esteem issue man. Body dysmorphia is a real thing for man. What most people dont know is that most male IG models took steroids, sarms, hrt, etc. Most bodybuilder only show their show-ready, dehydrated, unsustainable diet body on IG not their off-season 20lbs heavier huge belly body. Edit: just to be clear i am not defending him being a jerk on the reply but damn his message just oozes zero confidence.


Their off-season 20lbs heavier body is so much more healthy. That's the thing that I dislike the most, is that media portrays the dehydrated, crazy diet, unsustainable physique as the normal and not the +20lbs off season weight. Like if you've done any digging in the marvel shirtless dude scenes, they have to do that whole unhealthy routine to look that cut, that is not normal. I just realized that I swung a little off topic - as I can in no way comment on IG models - but I think the point stands. And really, media writ large is the bigger offender imo.


I used to teach dancing classes that mostly attracted mid-thirties women who were bored of yoga. I'd offer discounted rates for couples and a good 9/10 times they'd bring their boyfriends who were built like a brick shithouse, we're pretty well dressed and usually covered in tattoos. Hell, a lot of them I'd expect to see in like a more masculine fashion label ad. But god, the attitudes and insecurities were palpable. My own SO was my assistant at the time, something I was happy to introduce her as while she took photos, worked with students on low level moves she knew, taking payments and all the other stuff while I ran around keeping everything running. Any time I gave individual attention to my students after the first 20 mins of the classes curriculum for the day before they went off to practice in pairs or by themselves, they'd get way too close for comfort and general gave off a vibe of possessiveness & subtle aggression that was palpable. Like dude, what teacher would be unprofessional enough to hit on their student and risk a client, especially with their SO right next to them and mine 20ft away at most. Made it really had to work as sometimes you'd have to nudge their elbow in or show them how to move their wrist with your own hand if they couldn't get it from watching me, but I always kept as much personal space as I could without being able to teach. Funny thing was, these guys were dating really beautiful women. They obviously liked their SO's and always tried to include them, but they were just sullen pretty often, half-assing the class like they were there just to keep an eye on their girlfriend. It feels like even after short dudes are in a loving relationship their fear never leaves them, even if they were basically what incels would call a Chad. You could tell their girlfriends really like them, but it was just kinda funny that for everything they had I only "looked" down on them because of their attitude, not their height.


Yea social media and media in general push insane and unsustainable body images for men and women. A lot of men get the gross (in my subjective opinion) overly muscled pics and women get skin and bones and photoshopped away creases in skin. A lot of advertising is getting better with women luckily. They show the creases and use real plus sized models to show off plus sized clothes. I think males in advertising haven’t gotten the same attention though so they’re still a whole lot of really cut guys. I’m glad we’re making progress on women’s advertising but men’s advertising really does need the same attention. It makes getting to the point you’re like this way too easy.


And sadly... he didn't learn a single thing. Worse, he probably took this as "see? I told her about my height and my history and she rejected me because I'm "too short."


I'm sure his grating personality was such a turn off that when he asked these women "Is it my height?" they emphatically exclaimed "yes" to get rid of him.


"But... but... every time someone tries to tell me I'm lashing out, all I do is lash out at them. This is all their fault!"


this self-sabotage is painful to watch - mainly because it doesn't usually stay limited to self-sabotage (then it would just be sad), they eventually stew in their little pit of poison and come out all misshapen and inflict themselves on others like the toxic avenger except if the toxic avenger was a bad guy. This shit he's spewing is also shit that's pretty much sourced from the internet - like I'm 5'10 and I've literally never met a woman in real life who was like 'no sorry 6 ft+ only'. Though idk I don't hang out with very many shitty women and the ones I do it's usually by accident and not for very long so they're maybe more common than I realize, just like I literally don't know a single guy who states stuff like I only date C-Cups or bigger or some shit like that.


On another site I frequent, there's a dude I was somewhat impressed with. He'd read some obscure books I'm into and knew a lot about a new favorite musical genre. But he would get so defensive about any little thing. Now when he pops into chat he just insults everyone in the room like, "too cliquish in here, later" because he's decided that one disagreement means that everyone on the site hates him now. Like he's made one negative conversation into the entry to any conversation. He even renamed his room on the site Pariah's Place. 🙄 I'm sure he thinks I hate him now or something, but truly I'm still fond of him despite his drama. I just ignore those comments because that's what's healthiest for me, and also for him, and frankly for everyone else in the room. From his perspective he's this tortured, misunderstood guy standing by his principles. But to everyone else he's just making a lot of conflict for no reason and it isn't even personal. Like if he could get over his bullshit everyone would get along fine, but he brings it into every conversation. Anyway I hope this example was useful to someone and not just a useless ramble... Normally I'm better at getting to a point!


He's fixated on his height as being the reason he can't get dates because he can't change that. Accepting that it's the way he approaches/speaks to women would mean accepting it's his behaviour, which is absolutely something within his control and can be fixed, if he wants to make the effort.


Nobody does, though, because it would require more nuanced thought than "I'm good/I'm bad" for his ego and frankly a lot of people just don't entertain that shit. None of these guys wants to acknowledge the existence of a complex human inside of their skulls because they would have to worry about finding an acceptable mode for them to operate in, rather than, as you say, labeling themselves invalid from go and too short to fuck and just giving up and dedicating themselves to spreading their misery.


And THERE is the problem!!💯


Man, people are trying to learn about women and relationships from Love Island UK??? This just a bit of banter innit?


The equivalent of learning university physics from Rick and Morty. I hope they realize how absurd they are.


I'm 5'7" and married now, but back when I was dating, I had never been rejected for my height, and I dated a couple girls taller than me even.


Same. 5’8, my wife is 5’9. I don’t think my height has made me the butt of a joke since freshman year of high school. And it’s never been an issue with women, ever. I think this dude has issues he doesn’t want to face so “it’s cuz I’m short” is his default explanation for why he’s lousy with women. It’s easier than actually doing the work.


I think for most people these petty jokes in front of groups get old pretty quick. I can remember when this asshole in school stopped calling me the f-slur. He shouted it at me in the cafeteria and for once nobody laughed. We were juniors, I think. He just kinda got quiet and it didn't happen anymore, at least not from him.


Same. I wonder if it is a cultural thing sometimes, though. Like, I’m 5’7 and married now and maybe I was a little insecure about not being over 6 feet tall for a brief period of my teenage life, but I’m also Latino and it didn’t feel that short in my family because it’s not like we had tall Viking genes in our blood! I’ve known lots of short charismatic brown dudes who were very popular throughout their lives so it proves that height isn’t everything.


Great things come in small(er) packages! 💯💯


In Mexico there’s a pretty famous saying that I’ve lived by my whole live ***verbo mata carita. *** basically it means the smooth talker gets the girl over the good looking guy. I have a friend who’s 6’2 blond blue eyed Six pack the whole nine. He goes years without dates because he’s as awkward as they come, and then we have another buddy who’s 5’3 who goes from one girl to the next.


My now fiancé and I met on Tinder five years ago and he’s shorter than I am! Personally a guy that’s still confident even when breaking that “social norm” of men being taller is very attractive


Same here. I met my wife before online dating was the norm so maybe it is different... But I was doing fine before and assume I'd still be doing fine. Having a gigantic sense of humor helps. It's almost like confidence and not being a turd are attractive, or at least not unattractive.


I’m 6’2” but read this and was like “Wait is 5’8” short?” In my head that’s average. I’m slightly tall? So maybe it’s slightly short? I feel like most of my friends are 5’8”ish.


5'8" is a bit short, assuming this guy is a white American male. The average for them is 5'10". But it's definitely not *short* to the point where anyone would be likely to really notice it. Like if someone were asked to physically describe him, I doubt they'd say "short."


It irks me so much when guys who are 5’8 say they are short and complain that girls hate them for it . I’m a woman who’s 5’8 and my husband is 5’3. He is actually short. And he never complained about it or felt like he couldn’t get girls just because of that. You just have to have the confidence and you’ll attract someone eventually (as long as you’re not an ass hat or something)


Congratulations. You played yourself. Holy shit. It's like he wanted it to fail. He made every effort possible to tell her why she shouldn't have matched with him and why he wouldn't be worth her time, then got mad at her and himself? Dude needs therapy, not tinder.


He did want it to fail, nobody is this stupid. He’s had a few bad experiences and maybe OP is attractive and so crushing the opportunity this way feels safer to him that trying to date someone he sees as out of his league. It’s ridiculously dumb. My personal ng is that if OP was incredibly overweight or unattractive then he’d not act like this because he’d feel that that woman was “right” to have to settle for him.


yikes. definitely don't think height is what women are rejecting him for.


100% his attitude, and judging by it I’m almost sure that he opens every conversation like this whenever women give him a chance


Maybe he's looking for a pity fuck. "Girls don't like me because I'm short..." "That's not true." "Prove it." "All right, let's go." Or something like that.


That's my guess, honestly


Naw, if he was trying to do that he would have said that when she told him it wasn't true. Instead he just says women have rejected him all his life instead.


Some guys think this actually works. 🤦🏻‍♀️


He was actively talking himself out of a date.


BuT HeS OnLy 5Ft8


Nope. But he will never see that, because he doesn’t WANT to see it.😑😑


That last message was probably the kindest thing you could have told him. Probably wasted, but kind all the same


You often see this warped perspective with niceguys. Actually has a chance with a woman but instantly goes on the defensive and ruins it, almost as if to validate his own insecurities. It's a really sad cycle.


It is! I think everyone knows that feeling when searching for a job and it just looks to professional and too good for you. You don't even send your application in fear of rejection. They do the same and destroy everything before the other person can reject them


This guy’s gonna look back on this and say she unmatched him cause of his height.


I'm not sure how much my opinion matters, as I'm only 17. But I feel like I have to share it. I'm a very short dude, I'm 5'2 and I have come to terms with it now. Although that being said, I was alot like this guy, when it came to talking ab height. Saying stuff like "6ft guys only personality trait is being tall" "All 6ft guys are assholes" Basically just a nice guy in general. I quickly learned that my mentality and behaviour was NOT good in the slightest and looking back at it now, I can see that it wasn't only cuz I was short that women had a problem with so I knew I had to change. I can understand that it can be very frustrating to be rejected for being short, I have been aswell and I reacted the same way, although this way of thinking is very childish and very very "nice guy" like and is the exact thing that no one enjoys or finds appealing What I don't get is that, you clearly stated that you had some attraction toward him and even tho you said that, he still pulled the "bUt Im ShOrT" card to gain what? Validation? She just said she liked you my guy! Also 5'8 isn't even that short tf? Or maybe I'm just stupid idk. Also do people genuinely believe that LOVE ISLAND?! is a real source for relationship advice?! Like huh? Now if a 17 year old kid can do it, why is it hard for someone like this too? Or any "nice guy" Also sorry for the rant, I just got reminded at how I used to act by reading this post and got angry not only at him but myself too


Mate, don't be angry at yourself, you've articulated more maturity in that post then I had at the age of 30. Every day I'm reminded that the kids are alright..


Thanks, that's was greatly appreciated, I'm more just dissapointed in myself at how I spoke to women and how I treated them with some of the things I said and just wished I could've opened my eyes in the moment and stop myself. But you have a point, I shouldn't be TOO hard on myself


We all have regrets, we can't change what happened but we can laugh at how silly we were and learn a lesson.


That is very true. I just get way too hung up on the past and thinking how I could've done something differently but no use in doing it as it won't change anything haha


The fact the you regret it in hindsight shows how much you've grown since!


You’re getting way ahead of the game right now, kid. Keep it up.


>Now if a 17 year old kid can do it, why is it hard for someone like this too? Some people stew in their own shitty self-talk for too long, like sinking deeper and deeper into the bog that you managed to pull yourself out of. That's that dude's inner-voice coming out into the open and he lives with that voice 24/7 for who knows how long whispering that insidious shit to him every day telling him he's unlovable. Some people can't fight that voice off and they go out into the world and create a self-fulfilling prophecy. ​ This would all be just sad if it was only like that, but unfortunately a lot of them go out into the world and inflict pain on others out of their own pain and lack of restraint. A friend once told me "in some sense a man going out picking fights is a man deep down who what they really want is to get beat up". Edit: I forgot the last part - what they really want is to get beat up because that's what they believe they deserve.


You’re super mature for being able to get yourself out of that headspace. Im impressed/ and proud of you.


Well after you've been rejected multiple times, you start to think to yourself there's gotta be something else other than being short and "physically unattractive" and I'm really glad to go through that, as it really taught me alot and yeah it sucked but that's life. I'm alot more happier with the person I am today and wished I could slap past me in the face haha


At 17 you’re on the right path and really self aware. Mad respect to you, my man. Keep it up.


Thanks man, that genuinely means alot




You are really mature for your age! Confidence is the most important thing. I dated a 5’3 guy ( he dumped me) and he was super confident, smart and funny and had zero problems with finding a gf (the list was long). And I dated a 6’4 who has a disastrous love life due to the lack of confidence.


Oh I have like no confidence in myself haha. I just don't see my height to be a big issue (pun intended) like it's not something I can change, so all I can do is accept it. Obvioulsy everyone has their own insecurities and it's OK to not fully love yourself, ik I have a hard time with my own insecurities, but expressing it straight away after just meeting someone, is a little excessive. ofc It can work the other way round aswell and I think it's more common for shorter guys to feel that way cuz of stupid society "expectations" of both males and females. I just think people always see the unimportant stuff like weight, height and other things rather than how that person is, in my opinion


I agree that tall guys have a slight advantage but you are smart and self-reflective that’s a way bigger advantage in life. I think majority of people have insecurities but confident know very well what they are good at and they concentrate on those qualities


bruh im 5’7 and my 5’4 ex cheated on me with a 5’2 dude, height some girls dont care about height too much


Cheating sucks, dude. Unhappy people do shitty things. At least now, you're not in a relationship with an unhappy person, and that's good.


They’re the masters of self-sabotage lol.


What’s the Vegas odds he was on his incel boards within five minutes complaining about the stuck up Stacy that rejected him for his height?


Don't you know it's illegal to bet on a known outcome?


So watching a TV means you have some knowledge about what women want? TV is definitely the best source for information on subjective matters. s/ If I shook my head any harder than I just did I'd probably snap my neck.


Not just TV, reality TV, the lowest form of entertainment.


Damn he took himself out of the game so no one else had to. Tragic 😂


he’s 100% gonna go around telling people OP “rejected him for his height”


I absolutely love the way you handled it


This moron literally got a genuine match and fucked it up all by his lonesome. Fuckin dummy.


"She rejected me. She said it wasn't about my height, but like, I totally knew it was." -Him, probably


That's some serious self destruction


How bout asking out a chick for some drinks instead


I'm so lost as to what he thought would come of this. He gets a match, and proceeds to *argue* about how shallow he assumes she must be, to validate his "experience" and "expertise"? It's like pulling the pin on a hand grenade and nestling it against your taint.


5'8? Seriously? I'm 5'2 dude, not to disregard your struggles but you're average. Also, if he had just shut the fuck up and actually had a normal conversation maybe things would've gone differently.


Im 180 cm, and my ex girlfriend was 185 cm. She was a rugby player, an overall insane athlete, and she wore two or three inch heels often. For any bro dudes out there who feel inadequate for their height, let me tell you this : It's actually fine and pretty fun. There's literally no issue when your partner is taller, or shorter. The biggest thing is being firm in your identity no matter what. You look how you look. You won't ever change that. But you can present well and clean up nicely. Comfort with your own look and putting effort in, being truly kind and compassionate, and of course listening is the key ingredient. To all my dudes, dont let your height get you down (pun intended), but work to ameliorate yourself each day in looks and character.


This needs to be on r/sadcringe tbh


Love how she handles this conversation though


Wtf he enters Tinder and when he gets a match he sends this mf type of shit. This guy’s crazy.


lol my bf is only 5'5", and I'm 5'4". Never once have I found his height an issue. He is really kind, patient, has a big heart and a quiet confidence/ self-assuredness I find super attractive. If you keep getting rejected, chances are there are other things to work on. Height cannot be controlled, but your personality, attitude and actions can be.


Soooo I don’t think height is why women reject him yikes 😬


If you convince girls not to go out with you, you have no one to blame but yourself


"I've watched love island"


Women don’t want you because you’re a whiny little prick, dude.


Brb breaking up with my long term bf because he's 5"6...


This has got to be a humiliation kink.


I have empathy for him, he's clearly struggling. But he's definitely putting his own foot in his mouth and projecting. He needs help. It's a shame.


he is an incel