Houston hospital suspends 178 employees who refused Covid-19 vaccination
By - i_love_anachronisms
Everybody acts like this is some novel idea, but I worked in a nursing home for a few years and we all had to have flu vaccines every year because we were working with an at-risk population (and that's fairly standard; I don't think we were anomalous in that regard). And believe me, the flu is *devastating* within a nursing home. I can't imagine trying to deal with a covid outbreak.
We had a covid outbreak in a nursing home here by me. Wiped out something like 85% of residents in less than a week. Traced back to a CNA that lied about contact tracing from a large party, and then went to work and hid/lied about her symptoms on entry check ( I'm guessing small town rural America nursing home was probably also screwing up by allowing you to check your own temp, and just write a number on a piece of paper)
Same thing happened here. A CNA lied. Snuck into work and killed a dozen residents. There needs to be laws in place to punish people like this with negligent manslaughter. We now know it is fatal. It’s time to start punishing people properly. I am so angry at that CNA. It seems such a common story that if it is made a crime, it will be stopped.
My cousin is a nurse at a nursing home and they had 7 residents die because one of the workers' roommates went to a wedding.
Textbook example of selfish, ignorant behavior. Far too many people don't give a shit about anything until it affects them directly. I hope they had fun at the wedding /s
That's horrific, but it doesn't surprise me. The second year I was in the nursing home, we had flu run through the population like wildfire. Between November and February, there were just over 40 deaths in a 120-bed facility. Of course, in that environment, death is a part of the job, but those are huge numbers, and that was just the flu! Covid is a different beast altogether. I dont get anti-vaxxers in general, but I REALLY don't get anti-vax healthcare workers.
I've come to learn that your profession doesn't prevent stupid.
It really does confound me. One of my mom's coworkers in a NICU was that way. Anti-vax, essential oils, homeopathy... She had a mammogram that revealed a lump which could easily be removed. She instead opted for exercise and chiropractors. By the time she truly understood the magnitude of literal breast cancer, it had spread to her bones and became terminal.
I just don't understand how that is ever possible to have gone to school to become a medical professional and have such skewed and downright incorrect ideas about healthcare.
There is an almost disdain for expertise in this country. At the very least, a distrust of anyone that seems to be beyond a person's level of understanding. We've begun to equate surface level research (often done poorly using only Google) with actual expertise garnered through years of study of experience. It boggles my mind the people that think they understand any of this (or anything really) better than people that have spent decades studying it.
The pure cruelty of that selfishness infuriates me. She knew she was doing something wrong and felt a party was more important than the lives of her patients.
I would be interested in seeing the break down of the jobs the people hold. And not just nurse but RN, LPN, CNA, etc
one of the refusers is the head of the hospital's risk management department. Go figure.
Ofc it’s admin
At Yale all the admins got the vaccine before the frontline workers
My mother works at Yale, can confirm. She is frontline and was rightly pissed.
Same as Memorial Hermann hospital in Houston. When vaccines came out admin families got it while front line worker families couldn't.
Hearing shit like this annoys me, admin should be among the last people in a hospital to get a vaccine, but ofc since they make the decisions they get to cover their own ass before deciding to give the vaccine to people who are risking exposure every single day…..
Admins went first at our hospital too, to “set an example”. What would I do without their example?? 🖕🏻
At our hospitals the people on the front line definitely went first and it wasn't until they were certain that there was enough vaccine to protect everyone who wanted it before they offered it to the administration. I'm in the administration and didn't expect to get it at all.
Same at our university! All the students (who work directly with our residents) were vaccinated first.
The higher ups working in offices (including myself) were told we would only get them after our students/ front line staff did.
Everyone in our dept was fully on board with that. Obviously you protect those who are more vulnerable first.
My dads hospital - he’s a clinical scientist. One of the women he works with, also a clinical scientist, told him she wouldn’t get it because it altered her DNA and wouldn’t be a godly body anymore.
Edit: woman to women. Sorry not godly enough to be a perfect Iphone typist, or grammar, or punctuation.
That's nuts. I wonder how she reconciles all the random other things that change her DNA, like the sun.
e: I didn't mean to imply that the vaccine does change DNA, only that this idea of pristine DNA is pretty nonsensical.
The sun? Do you mean God's shining light?
Tobacco is gods plant. It can change DNA
Have you heard the good word of Marijuana?
Tast like grandma!
It does taste like grandma...
I want more...
This is why I stick to Tomacco
It tastes like grandma!
\*cow rams head through window\*
It's what cows crave
Interestingly it is considered the most sacred plant to many First Nation peoples, and the fundamental one in the ceremonies. Also interesting that multinational corporations used tobacco for the first GMO experiments because it is considered most transmutable. So you're not wrong at all.
Actually, that's not completely true. What we now know as tobacco is not what the native Americans of the old America smoked. The "original" tobacco plant was MUCH stronger and had a very high buzz to it, even hallucinogenic. This made it almost unenjoyable to the colonizing Brits. So what they did was breed out that crazy high and bred it down to a much more tolerable buzz which you now know today as Cancer Sticks™.
Rustica. I have a bunch here somewhere for snuff. It'll kick your ass for sure.
> What we now know as tobacco is not what the native Americans of the old America smoked. The "original" tobacco plant was MUCH stronger and had a very high buzz to it, even hallucinogenic. This made it almost unenjoyable to the colonizing Brits.
I've never heard anything like this before. Got any sources where I can read more about this?
Used by shamans in the amazon in both tea form and snuff, and as a cleansing tool blown onto patients by a shaman during ceremonies.
I wear the Armor of Mithras and the Light. I am shielded from all that is harmful.
I'm not familiar with that brand. I wear the armor of Banana Boat.
>I wear the armor of Banana Boat.
Must be nice... I'm stuck with the Armor of Banana Hammock.
Found The Todd.
Hell yeah high five!
And the fact, ya know, the vaccine doesn't change your DNA... lol
it gets read then never used again. its not stored like DNA. i feel like this is the coolest thing about this vaccine and the biggest thing people miss.
Not just that, it degrades fairly rapidly, not just unused after that. This is the reason it needs cryostorage, to keep it viable until it gets to us. It's literally what DNA codes for. DNA is stable, mRNA is not. DNA is the master blueprint, and mRNA are the copied commands it sends out to do stuff (make proteins).
From what I was reading is a little longer then the normal 6 hours but still gone in a day. There was a ask science question on Reddit about how many antigens you make from it. Also NOD stealth tanks ftw.
I saw a preacher one time on local cable access TV, and he was railing on about guys wearing ear rings, and how it was a symbol of slavery and abuse to your body. “Remember!”, he said, “Your body is a temple.” The guy easily weighed over 400 lbs. Apparently he had sacrificed many Twinkies on the altar of his temple.
A friend was so very worried about Covid he basically didn’t leave the house for half a year. Still ended up catching it and was hospitalised. After that debacle, he’s still not vaccinated because for some reason he doesn’t believe the vaccine is good for his health. But drinking 3 units of whisky everyday is apparently ok.
(I’m probably just not good at mental gymnastics)
I'm great at mental gymnastics and that's still dumb as hell
What is a unit of whisky?
I knew someone who was concerned after hearing sugar replacements cause cancer, yet was a half a pack a day smoker
Look. My body is a temple and I don’t put anything in it that I don’t understand…now, will you pass me my Monster energy drink and can I bum a cigarette?
Tell her God wants her to get the vaccine otherwise he wouldn't have allowed it to be created
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect had intended us to forgo their use..." - Galileo
I have a devout Catholic relative that actually thinks like this. Basically, science, vaccines, cures for disease etc are gifts from God who was good enough to give humans the brains and talent to create all of it. Refusing a vaccine would be refusing a gift from God sent to save us etc.
Kinda like the old joke about the guy who refuses a boat and a helicopter in a flood, dies, and then asks God why didn't you save me? And God goes "I SENT you a helicopter!?!"
This, a huge amount of early science was done under religious organisations and by bishops etc. Pobably caus they held all the power, but yeah :P
My Catholic Priest literally started Christmas Eve mass celebrating the miracle we are receiving in the Vaccine. I have no space for Christian antivaxxers.
My Protestant pastor did the same thing and has continually encouraged all who are able to get the vaccine.
Its also part of our duty to protect those around us (just like wearing a freaking mask).
Edit: just wanted to add that there is NO biblical basis for not get vaccinated, and that doesn't just apply to CoVid. Religious exemptions are BS.
I know a few like that. They tend to not be conservative though since they think like that. They're actual Christians.
You joke but I’ve had some good luck getting people over to the science side in my family by postulating that God controls science and uses it as a tool to make things happen. Ie miracles can be explained scientifically because that’s how God inacts change. Of course that doesn’t work on the internet because people don’t actually believe most of what they say and they just want to troll and be belligerent but it actually works pretty ok in real life settings if you have a family member that’s really religious.
I think she doesn’t know science.
She does, she's just compartmentalized it away from what she believes about her own life. Science is for what she studies, not her.
I got a degree in paleontology. One of my fellow classmates got his Masters in it and did not believe in evolution. People have an amazing ability to disassociate.
That is a mind boggling life to live. I almost respect the level of absolute mental gymnastics you would need to perform for such a state of being. Almost.
My cousin is a biochemist who firmly argues against evolution, believes the world is 6k years old, and that Jesus is coming for us soon.
Wish I was joking.
The caveat must be that education has to be first, so you have critical thinking skills before the propaganda can embed itself.
I work outpatient occupational therapy with mainly seeing home health. My boss had to give me four new clients cause the parents wanted vaccinated therapist and i was one of the only therapists that was vaccinated. It’s really sad in the health industry...
Edit: thank you for the reward it means even more since it was a hugz reward! This year has been terrible working in healthcare and i hope my fellow healthcare workers made it through that shit storm.
Edit 2: thanks for the 2020 veteran reward! I will definitely spread the love. To my fellow healthcare workers that survived, know you are valued and loved and we will make it through together. Keep doing what you gotta do for your patients and please get vaccinated to help protect our most vulnerable!
My wife is a home health therapist, and that is how we got covid last year pre-vaccine (we think). When you are in someone’s home and they are not wearing a mask and they are on oxygen and you are literally holding them as they struggle and gasp trying to walk...
Home health is super high risk and I don’t know why all of those therapists were not second in line after covid nurses and doctors to get the jab.
I’m sure your inbox has already blown up, but there’s a paper that came out recently showing level education of healthcare workers correlates pretty well with vaccination. Doctors were vaccinated at the highest percentage, and it decreases as you descend. I’ll try to find it!
[This is a scoping review I just found that supports your point](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10900-021-00984-3).
I haven’t read the entire paper yet (so please point out any flaws), but it does conclude that older age, being male, and having a higher education level was correlated with less covid vaccine hesitancy. Interesting stuff!
Edit: corrected wording from “meta-analysis” to “scoping review”
I think it's also interesting that being male correlates with less vaccine hesitancy, yet also correlated with less willingness to wear a mask. Example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53446827
Honestly, I didn’t know about that, too! But, like the other commenter below me said, the gender variable could be due to a higher number of male HCWs being more educated (more male MDs vs female RNs) - because this study is only of HCWs. Important to always think of the variables could be affecting each other.
There seems to be a cohort of nurses that get all their 'news' from Facebook.
I'd be more interested in seeing how many of them work in the COVID unit.
Curious, who do you think the biggest offenders are?
Edit: this gained a little more traction tham I thought it would. My anecdotal experience and the people I know, it's RN's. Overwhelming majority of the responses I am getting are saying RN's also.
For those those that are asking, why the choice of the word offender. Let me give you the definition of offender: a person or thing that offends, does something wrong, or causes problems.
Nurses at my hospital. Almost all nurses. The most vaccinated are, weirdly, the non clinical staff.
Nurses are simultaneously some of the most competent people on earth who I would trust with saving mine or my child's life in traumatic accident but at the same time would also not trust them with prescribing me or mine as something as simple as a multivitamin.
In my experience, they tend to be from different types. There's really good ones, and then there's really awful ones.
Can depend on the department as well. OB vs. Med Surg vs. OR vs. Critical care.
Edit : anecdotally I see better compliance in critical care, or and ED.
Edit 2 : I feel I should add here that is with the flu vaccine, my hospital has had all medical staff vaccinated at this point.
I had a Nurse argue my height was 5’12”.
I was told I had to be above 5 feet and 12 full inches to reach 6 feet tall.
You both were wrong, you are 4'24".
I'm over here laughing at both of you standing at 3' 36"
I worked as a medical device sales rep and it always blew my mind how nurses are sometimes the most unhealthy ppl. Many times they were morbidly obese and soooo many of them would be outside taking smoke breaks. Like dude, you work in a fucking hospital caring for sick and broken down ppl. You should be motivated to take better care of yourself when you spend all day caring for ppl who don’t. (I did spinal fusions and the majority of the ppl we did operations on were unhealthy and overweight). It just didn’t make sense to me.
At the hospital my wife works at, it’s the nurses. Many of them are covid deniers refusing vaccines to this day, and they were treating covid patients too. Absolutely astounding the mental gymnastics our politics has us perform.
My wife’s hospital in the northeast has more unvaccinated nurses than vaccinated. It’s so strange.
Nurses think they are trained in science and medicine, and believe that makes their opinions on science and medicine are based in fact.
In reality, they are trained to deliver advanced patient care using the discoveries of science and the directions of medical providers.
Nursing is awesome, but it's an entirely different discipline than medicine.
There are plenty of nurses that I trust more than that, but there's no way to easily find out which ones they are.
Hell, even medicine is an entirely different discipline than science and scientific discovery. That's why late-stage medical students often do intercalated science degrees, because they want to understand the science.
> There are plenty of nurses that I trust more than that, but there's no way to easily find out which ones they are.
You could maybe ask them if they were planning on getting vaccinated against COVID
People forget nurses are just working class with extra steps, what do i know tho im just a carpenter with a degree in political science.
Just like Christ himself.
Depends on the nursing type and position. My mother is an RN who has managed entire departments, done project management for pharmaceutical companies, etc. on the other hand I work in car sales and the number of cars I have sold to “nurses” (mostly CNAs) who just dispense meds as instructed and change bedsheets is vast. Nursing is a pretty wide umbrella.
Edit: As pointed out by another Redditor. Typically CNAs can’t dispense meds except under specific circumstances in nursing homes, but from conversations I have had with people in my home state (Kansas), I get the impression that happens in quite a few nursing homes around here. So, that comment was based on anecdotal conversations with CNAs in my region.
I can stick a key on my sweaty skin. Can't explain that.
We have someone in the family who believes the vaccine made them magnetic and that it's because of microchips. They have very greasy skin and stuck a flat fridge magnet on themselves.
I have some very strong, very small, magnets, so I brought them one and told her to stick it to her.
Fell right off.
Did she accept that maybe, MAYBE, she's not magnetic or filled with microchips? Nope. My magnet must be the wrong type.
The wrong... type??????
Well there is a simple explanation, really.
She’s a fucking moron.
The sad part is, since she got the vaccine, she's still less of a moron than the ones who (willfully) don't. Lady who thinks she's an X-Man is the bar to clear, y'all.
It’s moments like these that reaffirm my belief that humanity is doomed.
It was one of those magnets that only affects ferrous metals
No no no. You use the "S" side not the "N" side
The best thing I've seen is having them use baby powder on the spot beforehand, that'll keep their greasy-ass skin from sticking to whatever nonsense they think they're attracting... Heh
All us vaxxers are Magneto now
My cell service definitely improved when I got my second shot. Moderna works best with the AT&T signals.
I got the Pfizer because I have Verizon.
I now get 6G
I hear the booster comes with 7G
mine came with starlink
I got Moderna because I have T-Mobile! I finally have service in my own home… who woulda thought this is all it takes!?
I use Google Fi, just had my 2nd Moderna shot and I can't get signal in my house now.
Unrelated, I did just move houses...
I got the Pfizer shot and now I can't stop buying Microsoft products I don't know why
She couldn't even pull that off today at her little demo in Ohio. Then she's like eXpLaIn ThAt!!1!
I was a housekeeper at a VA hospital, I left that job because everyone I worked with in housekeeping were covid-deniers and anti-maskers. I relied on high risk family to watch my son, and these fuckers were becoming a huge risk to the health and lives of my family. I've never been so stressed in my life, and I've been to Afghanistan. So fucking glad I left that job, I'm never working for yeehaw fucking assholes again.
A little bit of knowledge, enough for them to think they know everything, can be dangerous.
I don't think half of the phlebotomists at the blood donation center I go to have gotten vaccinated. They all either have some "immune disorder" or they "never get sick."
I’m a nurse and freely admit I don’t know shit. I also got my vaccine the second it was available, before Christmas for me! Probably about the only perk of being an ICU nurse this year lol. Covid is real and I want it to go away forever.
Honestly I feel like your an exception. Many nurses in know, including the few in my immediate family act like they’re brain surgeons half the time and one of them is now making homemade soap and deodorants (which don’t work btw) and has gone full on antivaxx. And her husband is a X-ray tech who also acts like he is a physician. Both have had really bad cases of covid that almost put them in the ER (if now for my mom who actually was a Cardiologist and currently works in ICU in a hospital) and they STILL voted for trump last election and think Covid is an overblown hoax. We haven’t been much in contact except birthday wishes since then.
But why should I be surprised. My wife’s husband who was an Anesthesiologist in Ukraine beloved vaccines cause more than autism. That they actually instilled some demon into his wife’s friend’s teen daughter and they had to go to the Amish to get it expelled. I’m not even making this shit up. I can’t.
Same. Had to get my blood drawn about 5 months ago and the phlebotomist said she wasn’t getting it. At a differ place my nurse was pissed off and ranting while taking my blood pressure. She was pissed at the inconvenience she had to deal with because Covid was a joke. 😳
Had to sit in the NICU alone at the beginning of the pandemic with my newborn and nurses listening to them mock the virus situation while my husband was literally in the ICU above them working 13-14hr + days treating COVID patients. It was so hurtful.
Spent a month in the hospital last year and need to go back for more. People like that are the reason I've put it off until fully vaccinated because listening to them, I thought: these idiots are going to get me killed. What good does treatment do me when they aren't taking the epidemic seriously? And just what do they think those colleagues of theirs like your husband are doing anyway, just racking up the overtime? I'm thankful that the hospitals are beginning to show sense and crack down.
(Congrats btw. I hope things are looking up after their rocky start.)
That is why I want to see a break down as to which nurses. I have several RNs in the family and they are all saying the same thing, RNs are vaccinated, LPN are kind of Vaccinated and CNAs are basically unvaccinated. There are also some hostility between the various types of nurses so I would like to see data.
RN here. There’s plenty of ignorant RN’s. There’s at least 1 of us per unit selling MLM garbage.
This is the realest RN here
Dumb bastards at every level and position and we wonder why everything has problems
Would you be interested in looking at my doterra collection while I ignore my patients sp02 of 75%? It’s no big deal they just need to be suctioned. Anyways, have you ever been interested in being your own boss? 🚀🚀🚀
I work in healthcare and a lot of the RNs and MAs I work with didn’t get the vaccine because they thought it would cause fertility problems. I believe that’s since been clarified but I honestly doubt they would check at this point…
Literally only 3 PAs, 1 MD, and myself got it; 2 RNs, 3 MAs, and 1 MD denied the vaccine.
CNAs are not nurses. They are extremely important to a properly functioning unit, but are not a nurse.
Technically true but as the name has nurse in it and the media / general public don't care and lump them together.
I'm an RN. There were several anti-vax students in my BSN program. It baffled me, but everyone was deservedly snarky towards them. It's a hard degree, but intelligence and common sense are not the same thing.
At my hospital it’s actually the housekeeping staff.
Anecdotally I know an antivaxxer PSW and ICU nurse. The latter absolutely dumbfounds me, because nurses need 4 years of university, including lots of chemistry, anatomy and physiology classes
I don't understand how the fuck he reconciles what he learned in school with what he reads on facebook
Not all nurses need a 4-year degree. Some RNs only have a 2-year associates degree.
We've been told at my hospital that as soon as the vaccine is fully approved by the FDA, it will be made mandatory for everyone here as well.
Same policy as having to get a flu shot every year, only medical exemptions allowed.
The military will probably do the same, like the dozen other vaccines they require.
Can confirm. COVID shot will be a lovely addition to our cocktail of vaccines.
I am mystified by the soldiers I work with that won't get the vax. Bro, you've never questioned any of the other 10 you got and these seem to be safer. I sometimes wonder if they just want quarters for two weeks.
I am a Houston Methodist employee and will be for life now. The few that didn’t get the vaccine is a very, very small minority (~26,000 employees total). The administration has been very transparent throughout all of covid and it’s been a pleasure to work at this hospital system. This hospital treats their employees VERY well. We got a $500 bonus for getting the vaccine, a $500 bonus during covid, got a 5%+ raise during nurses week, and recently all employees got a $1k bonus and 1 day PTO bonus.
> ~26,000 employees total
This is super good to know. 178 sounded like a ton to me.
Yeah, the Texas Medical Center in Houston is the biggest in the world. It is its own city practically.
Well it’s a relief to hear that it’s a minority!
Ive worked at a number of hospitals and all require vaccinations, especially flu shot every year. If I refuse, I have to work in limited units, they shouldnt be surprised.
Our hospitals policy was you had to wear a mask if you didn't get the flu shot
Same.. remember when that was a big deal? Haha
Same here. Your badge would have a sticker saying mask required during season.
I work at a large computer company. Our CEO recently said that (to paraphrase) while we would not be requiring vaccines, the fact that we are a science-based company means that people who do not get the vaccine are probably not good candidates to be working there anymore.
I work for a big company that is honestly being a little lax about vaccines. But the good thing is, I guess, if there's an issue from that - if we get community spread in the office - I think they'll catch it quick and be able to reevaluate those policies. Happy I'm still WFH
I really wish our CEO would do this. I work for a healthcare company but not frontline. We’re all office workers in my dept but we have a bunch of anti vaxxers. Why do you work here if you don’t believe in medicine???
Does that mean they are hiring?
Hospitals require vaccinations for major things. Even as a housekeeper, I was required to be vaccinated against certain things. Therefore, its imperative these nurses be held to the same standard.
Right? I am seriously baffled by how many people are up in arms and yell WELL ILL JUST SUE THE HOSPITAL… like… you’re welcome to find employment elsewhere. My last EVS job I was told I needed to get the flu vaccine, and the very sweet infection control gal nicely stated in that same breath I was more than welcome to deny the vaccine but that my current employment offer would be rescinded on the spot and I would be put on a no-hire list for one year. Like, you’re more than welcome to deny a TB test, HepB vax, flu shot… just like they’re more than welcome not to hire you if you choose to do that.
The irony is these same people scream about free market and how employers shouldn’t be forced to provide insurance/benefits to employees if it will “hurt their bottom line”.
Boggles my mind. Like, you're just going to give me a TB test and a whole bunch of vaccines for **free**? Shit, sign me up. Fill me up with your science juice, meat wizard.
There's nothing ground breaking or new about this. I've worked at manufacturing mills that required me to have an up to date tetanus shot to be on site. Companies can require things for safety.
Weren't hospital staff part of the first group who could get vaccinated? I'm surprised they were only fired now.
Wondering if those same employees get their required yearly flu shots?
Most do, but they do it the last week before the deadline and spend the previous 2 months bitching about it and trying to find loopholes in the policy to get out of it.
Been listening to that crap every autumn for over a decade.
Sounds like they are in the wrong field if they are so afraid of needles
Suspended without pay, they are not fired yet.
It’s because it wasn’t a requirement before. People could decline getting the vaccine since it wasn’t fully FDA-approved. Even hospital workers. Now, as we get closer to it getting approved, companies are starting to make it a requirement for their employees to get vaccinated. I hope that continues.
Edit: EEOC is allowing companies to mandate this. It’s not against the law.
I work in a big medical center with a lot of federal civilian employees.
Currently, the hospital requires people to have their flu vaccine or an approved medical or religious exemption. Those are not easy to get, and are verified.
Currently, the covid vaccine is not required, and it's largely to do with the emergency use declaration.
Once it gets fully approved, it will become a requirement, just like the flu vaccine.
I know several guys working maintenance in Oregon hospitals about to lose their jobs over this. One of them told me the only thing that keeps him from eating a bullet is the fact that he knows trump is running everything behind the scenes because Biden is a remote-controlled clone. This is the guy maintaining the MRI chillers holy fuck.
So the Biden administration IS the Trump administration? Does he also oppose things Biden has enacted or has he gotten that far?
I’ve read various posts (insane ramblings) that Trump is letting Biden do whatever he wants so people can see what it would be like to live in a socialist country.
And no, none of them realise the stupidity or irony of what they’re saying.
But this is in no way a socialist country. He is in no way a socialist.
It's weird how these people don't believe in science in general but when it comes to having a remote controlled clone that exactly emulates an actual human they totally believe it
That poor guy needs help, and I hope he finds it, somehow. Bet he can't afford it, though.
It's not a case of not being able to afford it but simply not wanting it. At this point for a lot of them it wouldn't be mental health treatment but rather cult deprogramming and cultists tend not to willingly opt for such things.
It seems like he has some specialized knowledge. Probably paid a decent wage
RN from Australia checking in:
I can't work (in some clinical settings) unless I can show evidence of a current flu vaccination and that I've had a full course of Hepatitis B vaccinations.
I can't travel to some countries unless I can demonstrate that I have had a Yellow Fever vaccination.
It's all about logical consequences: If I don't want to be vaccinated, then I will just have to work somewhere else, or accept that I can't travel to some locations.
What I refuse to do is ... fucking whine like a little bitch, because I believe that my "right" to refusal takes precedence over the health and wellbeing of those in my care.
I've been vaccinated for Covid-19 and I've vaccinated many others. In my job I meet many people who are both anti-vaxxers and vaccine-hesitant. I can't make them have the vaccine, but I can advise them of the current body of clinical evidence and encourage them to undertake their own research - after that, it's up to them.
Develop immunity the easy way, or the hard way…
I did both. Covid was pretty much unavoidable for me. I had to go into work every single day alongside younger folk who still went on vacation, masked often but not correctly in a workplace (media) that barely even tried to keep clean and had staff parties attended by the same people as above. One girl got tested and came to work for three days before her results came back positive. WTF? Common surfaces were half-assed cleaned maybe once a day. We stopped calling ourselves essential and opted for “expendable”. 35% of our staff that had to come in got sick. And no, WFH is not possible in some fields. And to this day, one of our anchors still refuses to get vaccinated.
I just don’t get it. We have achieved herd stupidity.
We (as in humanity) just got lucky it wasn't as deadly as the Spanish flu. This would've went down so different if it was.
Part of me though wonders if it would have actually helped. Like, people dropping dead left and right might have actually helped make people realize it wasn't a conspiracy theory, compared to 'knowing a guy who's friend died from covid'
You still had many in denial during the Spanish Flu too, humans weren't any less reactionary back then
A lot of people never thought it was a conspiracy, they just didn’t care.
>We (as in humanity) just got lucky it wasn't as deadly as the Spanish flu.
It may very well have been.
The official U.S. death counts stands at around 600,000. There's decent evidence that we undercounted considerably, and in the worst case it could be on the order of 50%: so [900,000 deaths](https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s), plus or minus 100k. With a population of 328 million, that's a mortality rate of **274 per 100,000** population for COVID-19.
Now for the Spanish Flu. Per the [National Archives](https://www.archives.gov/news/topics/flu-pandemic-1918), there were about 675,000 deaths. With a population of 103 million, that's a mortality rate of **655 per 100,000**.
*Well, that sounds 2.5x worse than COVID-19.*
That's true, however 1918 was before ICUs or even antibiotics for secondary bacterial infections. As a result, mortality for everything was considerably higher in 1918. So it may be better, perhaps, to look at the Spanish Flu's mortality rate relative to a normal flu season's mortality.
[Here's a paper with data in influenza deaths since 1900](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/). From Figure 1, we see that influenza deaths rates are about 30-40x lower today than they were in the 1930s and 1940s. That puts into perspective just how much worse health outcomes were back then. Anyways, we also see that the **death rates from the Spanish Flu in 1918 were about 20-30x greater than the seasonal average from 1930-1940.**
So going back to today, a typical flu season kills about [35,000 people](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html). COVID-19 has killed as many as [900,000](https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s). That means that COVID-19 is about **25x more deadly than the seasonal flu.**
**That's exactly how much deadlier the Spanish flu was than the season flu in 1918.**
Why doesn't it feel like as much of a calamity? Well, I hypothesize that it's because of two things:
2. Hygiene and lockdowns.
COVID hit old people the hardest. [80% of COVID-19 deaths were in among people age 65 or older](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge). In stark contrast, the Spanish Flu [primarily killed people between the ages of 20-40](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0069586).
People age 65+ are mostly retired. They die, and it affects their family and loved ones, but all the economy sees is reduced demand because there are fewer people buying things.
People aged 20-40 are in their prime working years. These are the factory workers, the waitstaff, cashiers, shelf stockers, mail workers, engineers, scientists, designers, etc. If they die *en masse*, things start shutting down and staying crap for a long time because there are both literally fewer people to do the jobs that need to be done, and you lose millions of collective man-years of job and technical skills and institutional knowledge.
**Hygiene and lockdowns.**
The Spanish Flu hit all at once and overwhelmed everything. Of those 675,000 deaths, [almost 200,000 were just in October](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-commemoration/pandemic-timeline-1918.htm). COVID-19, by contrast, was more of a slow burn over a year. Sure there were spikes, but there were lockdowns, masks, social distancing, hand washing, canceled events, and more to slow the spread. Even in states with negligent government, [daily life didn't look like this](https://healthblog.uofmhealth.org/sites/consumer/files/2021-04/1918-Crowd-Public-Trolley-BlackandWhite.jpg). That allowed the health care system to avoid collapse, and with only a few exceptions, you didn't have vast populations of working people out sick all simultaneously.
And keep in mind that we still have a COVID-19 death count that is 25x the seasonal flu and *only* 2.5x less than the Spanish Flu. And that's **with** all of the measures taken to stop the spread. What if we had taken no measures, at all?
[Only about 15% of Americans ever caught COVID-19](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid-2020-11-27/card/vNkshCuxwSGLw7zkSx4z) before the vaccine started rolling out. [A quarter caught the Spanish Flu](https://www.archives.gov/news/topics/flu-pandemic-1918), and the U.S. is unimaginably more urbanized and interconnected today than it was in 1918. If you doubled the number of people who caught COVID-19, you'd expect double the deaths, and suddenly we'd be awfully close to that 1918 death count per capita, even with our vastly superior health care and technology.
I also work in media and our place is freaking spotless. We have staff that go around just disinfecting surfaces so often it would be annoying if it weren't so responsible. I'm sorry to hear of your situation.
Just as I would expect them to require stuff like, mumps vaccines and shit.
I'll tell you who it is not (at least at my hospital) - physicians. I don't know a single MD that didnt get vaccinated as soon as possible.
Edit: I said "at least at my hospital." Of course there are MDs who refuse vaccination, just like everyone else, likely for social and political reasons.
I work in a busy ICU and have taken care of droves of COVID patients in the past year. Every one of my physician colleagues got vaccinated immediately; however, many of my RN and RT colleagues, who perform much more direct patient care than MDs, did not. This decision was made despite watching people die alone of the disease while they were caring for them.
I suppose my point is that the people that generally best understand the vaccine are getting it ASAP. I just can't understand why what "well, my nieces friend who works as a nursing assistant in a SNF said ..." carries more weight.
This. My wife is an MD with a masters degree in public health. We have a lot of doctor friends. Not a single one of her colleagues or friends have declined getting vaccinated. What the fuck!? When the people in the position to know the most about the vaccine are also the ones getting it in droves, maybe we should all copy them?
A bunch of keyboard geniuses on a local news site's comments section told me the vaccine isn't "natural" and will "alter my DNA", in addition to it not working, and also being designed to track us like brainless sheep. So I'm gonna need a liiiiittle more than virtually every medical doctor on the planet to change my mind.
*/s sadly needed*
There's a certain venn diagram overlap of those who ALSO deny the earth's shape. As if every pilot, offshore sailor, cartographer, astronaut, astronomer, world traveller, satellite engineer, and government employee was in on a conspiracy against them personally.
If hooters can fire someone for getting fat, a hospital can fire someone for not being vaccinated.
>Texas is an “at-will
What states aren't at this point?
Still have good ole Montana.
>Nearly 25,000 of Houston Methodist's staff members have been fully inoculated against Covid-19 as part of a vaccination requirement announced in April, Houston Methodist's president, Dr. Marc Boom, said in a statement Tuesday.
Seems like missing about 200 staff members might not be so big of a deal compared to the vast majority of staff who did the right thing :)
25000 staff, wow, that is a big fucking hospital complex
It is probably not a single complex but hospitals and clinics spread throughout the area.
I used to work for a healthcare company about that size. It was about 10 hospitals and 70 clinics spread all throughout the area.
This is true for Methodist. There are multiple major hospitals across Houston and various clinics. That being said HMH main hospital is very large and spans multiple buildings in the Houston medical center.
Houston Medical Center is a city in itself
Has its own police
The Texas Medical Center in Houston (where this hospital is) is the biggest medical center in the world
Welcome to Houston. You can drive 100 miles and still be in Houston.....
Or one loop around 99 when completed.
Little known fact, Houston is only an hour drive from Houston.