"we know" - Everyone who works in food service


Lol for real. National Restaurant Association people are not seeing heaven.


Lol. I went to a RAM (restaurant association of MD) meeting back when I was a working chef and was appalled. I thought it was a group for restaurant workers. Nope. Full on lobby for restaurant owners. Oh, and the seminar I sat in on? How to campaign AGAINST mandatory paid ACCUMULATED sick leave for restaurant workers. Apparently restaurant owners can't afford to treat their employees like humans.


there’s a few NRA’s on that list


Cooks at a former restaurant would show up at 10AM and wouldn't clock in till 2PM, then promptly off the clock at 10PM whether or not they were done. The schedule always said 2-10 but the amount of prep and mise that was required for service was physically impossible in 2 hours, so they all voluntarily came in so it was legal (or so my GM said). Can't have actually been legal but it's "standard practice" so no one complained.


I've worked in restaurants like that. I would just clock in, get taken off schedule and fired. I'm happy most places aren't acting like this is ok in my city anymore aside from a few ritzy places. It's a theme that oughta stop. Worst excuse for it I heard was "the tips will pay for those hours". Fuck no they don't. Four hours off the clock the tips do not pay for that. The tips pay for how fast and good you were during service.


Tips is the excuse my former hotel used to pay shitty wages, when I questioned, (no one tips in England) I was told, don't like it, there's the door.


Yeah that shit is dumb. I get paid a shit wage but I do actually make tips so I don't care. But I also don't spend hours doing random side tasks for no tips unless its deadass slow, which case no one is making money anyways, lol. But yeah, when we didn't have a dishwasher in the AM for a while if I did dishes it meant getting a cut of in store tips and/or just getting under the table money, lol. So I never complained. But I wasn't about to become the dishwasher.


Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.


Because you are not doing it.


okay? but if you're not doing those things and you're somewhere where tips are standard, then you need to tip for the service you received. otherwise you're a total dick


“Work not requested but suffered or permitted to be performed is work time that must be paid for by the employer. For example, an employee may voluntarily continue to work at the end of the shift to finish an assigned task or to correct errors. The reason is immaterial.” https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked


I hate to blame the workers but at a certain point organizing is a minimum of youre being robbed of 4 hours. You just all show up when youre scheduled and do your best even if its gonna be shit. Malicious compliance. And of course, no, its not legal to not pay even if someone starts working early. If youre working youre on the clock


Because people are held hostage by poverty. Edit: it’s honestly so wild and so encouraging to see comments like this get upvoted so quickly these days. This shit used to be downvoted with a quickness online. I feel like a real shift is happening in the minds of workers.


No shit. I filed a case with the NY DoL in 2016. I get a yearly letter saying my case has been assigned but is still pending. The bar I worked for closed last year. Fuck the DoL almost as hard as the shitheads who owe me 8k


*Fist-bump* Apartment maintenance techs feel the same pain. No benefits, no union, and the next employer is gonna be about the same as the last. As we do the work of electricians, plumbers, carpenters, HVAC techs, and at times, social workers. For even less pay than the damn social workers. Bonus: Unless it's an emergency call, past 40 hours, I work for free. Highly illegal, but I also work in an at-will-employment state. So nary a damn thing I can do. That's why I poop on company time.


Idk how anyone does shit like that. Amazon pays maintenance workers $20+ an hour plus benefits.


> but I also work in an at-will-employment state. So nary a damn thing I can do. I don't think you understand the difference between "At-Will" and labor laws. At will means they can let you go at any time, and you can leave at any time. Contact your local labor board. You should be getting paid over 40 unless you are classified special like management and exempt from OT.


Are you certified/bonded? If so, there's plenty of other jobs that are high-demand that will pay well for those certifications.


The maint guy at my old apartment went ahead and had sex with at least one woman a building. Breaking up at least 3 marriages. Including the complex supervisor who left her husband for the guy, and my direct neighbor who also left her husband for the guy. I remember thinking man i'm glad they are finally fixing that apartment up. I hope mine is next. It was not.


Guess you should have fucked him.


Boss don't pay me my dime so I poop on company time hell yeah. How in the world is there no union for apartment maintenance techs?!


I worked for a major food chain almost ten years ago. Every once in a while, someone goes through with a class action suit I suddenly I get a check in the mail for $50-200 or so. I don't even understand how many ways they must have fucked me that it's still happening.


“We know” every tenant in California


Every working class person, honestly. Or, well, actually, a lot probably think the idea of wage theft is just "greedy socialists" or whatever, but hopefully people are starting to learn how much they're getting screwed, especially as we suffer from an "inflation" manufactured entirely to pad the profits of companies who were already making billions.


"employees were independent contractors..." that really needs to be the biggest loophole closed in this gig economy. Somehow a business can operate with only like 3 real employees, but an army of "contractors" which strangely enough fill the function of what would have been a regular employee.


This isn't just a gig economy thing. Independent contractors are everywhere. Taxi drivers, truck drivers, real estate agents, hairdressers, journalists, songwriters, producers, musicians, music engineers, photographers, real estate appraisers, tattoo artists, etc. are all commonly independent contractors.


It's a ridiculous concept. A "contractor" by common knowledge is someone who temporarily provides a service as an established business. In that case, putting the tax and worker's benefits on the established business makes sense. Being an employee producing labor is not the same. It's just a way to offload financial burden and cut out value for a lot of already bloated industries. But hey, that's just how the US is. Everyone is running a game.


Any employee whose job duties are essential for the business to function *should* be W2 employees, but standing up for yourself under capitalism is a ticket to the streets so people take what the job creators will give them.


> so people take what the job creators will give them By using the term “job creators” to refer to business owners, you’re falling into their trap.


I think they meant it ironically.


Even then, call them what they usually are - the parasites at the top.


It's way harder to define than you think, though. If I see a flyer at the supermarket with a phone number for a plumber, then I hire them to come to my house and fix the sink, that seems like a contractor. If I pull a number off that bulletin board to hire a driver to pick me up and drive me to the airport, that seems like a contractor. If I find the plumber through Task Rabbit, should that change the plumber's relationship to me? Or do they have a relationship with Task Rabbit, which would argue they are just like the old fashioned bulletin board system? What if the Uber driver drops me off, but hands me a card and says I can call them directly the next time I need a ride. Are they back to being a contractor? They can't be an Uber employee anymore, right? Ditto Uber/Lyft. How do define these in a way that distinguishes from the bulletin board example above? The real problem is that the Fair Labor Standards Act was written in 1938 as our country was still trying to come out of the Depression. It has had few meaningful updates. Congress needs to make fundamental changes to the law to reflect that we don't work the same way we did more than 80 years ago.


>Ditto Uber/Lyft. How do define these in a way that distinguishes from the bulletin board example above? The control they exercise over the contractor. If I drive a 2001 Toyota Camry, can I post on your bulletin board? Because I can't drive for Uber/Lyft. Car has to be less than 15 years old. How about if I drive a 2020 Rolls-Royce Cullinan, can I post it on your bulletin board? Because again, I can't drive for Uber/Lyft. That's not on their list of approved Rolls-Royce cars. You see how this level of intrusion would be quite unusual for a bulletin board? And would start to resemble an employee-employer relationship?


I think it would be as simple as asking if the person in question does more than 70-90% (pick a number) of their work exclusively for one client or one company. You hire a plumber to do a single repair they are a contractor because it's one task, you hire a plumber and all his work is through you then he's an employee


In those situations, it's simple to define. A plumber on taskrabbit is employed or advertised by taskrabbit if he is not an established business. If they want to take a cut of the profits, they need to enter a contract with an established business or employ the individual. This prevents profiteering by virtue of depriving individuals of benefits like a minimum wage, healthcare, and retirement fund. If Uber or taskrabbit can't survive without putting their employees on welfare, it's a bubble anyway. Generally, if someone is not an established business or independently offering services, they are employees.


If they are an employee then can Uber mandate the hours worked by it's drivers and the locations they work at? The freedom of contracting is you choose the jobs and hours worked and the price. If you don't want to Uber today you don't have to.


They could but they don't have to. Uber picks the price decides on what they get vs what you get and mandates certain things about your car. They're are an employer. If Uber doesn't want employees they need to change the way they work


Yes If Uber wants to classify drivers as independent contractors then the drivers need to have the power to negotiate their own rates and terms. Otherwise they’re not really independent are they? If Uber wants drivers to be independent contractors then Drivers should be able to decide what they want to charge including mileage and other fees, what kind of car they can drive assuming it’s legal, exactly when and where they are willing to work, and of course be able to accept work from any other companies or individuals without Uber being involved.


Where I live (eastern Europe) a contractor can not be working exclusively for a single client for an extended period. There were even a couple of lawsuits a couple of years ago where companies were forced to retroactively pay employment taxes (most importantly retirement fund) for "employees" that they were hiring as contractors but were working as regular employees (only working for that one company). Some people basically got extra money for 5 years (cause they were paying 5-8% tax as a contractor instead of 40%) but then also got 5 years worth of retirement benefits at the end.


It's also (disturbingly) common in medical lab QA/QC


Even strippers are considered independent contractors in a lot of places and have to pay a fee to get stage time in the clubs they dance in.


Yup, and usually told when they need to clock in and out, regardless of the what the law says about scheduling and independent contractors.


Lawyers too. I worked for a tax law firm and half of the lawyers were only contractors. It was an eye opening experience. I didn’t realize lawyers had to hustle for their money, but it makes sense. Some are hired on as salary, but many, especially starting out, are working case-by-case.


Or just like other businesses like Walmart where you can get something like $15 an hour or more, but they will reduce your hours to under 40 hours a week so that way you can be considered "part time" and thus don't get full benefits or full 40 hours of pay a week. Or have you work over 8 hours in a day but reduce your hours so you don't get any over time (over 40 hours) for said week. Thus they use that loophole to their advantage. There are so many jobs people see that claim high hourly pay and that attracts people to the job only to find out your not getting a full 40 hours a week. So one week you might only get 10-20 hours and so your still getting less money. It's all BS and annoying. Meanwhile a post on here just today showing some exec at Disney was making 6 figures a DAY for so many months and doing nothing really.


universal healthcare would go quite a ways to that, since there wouldn't be all that much in the way of benefits that actually matters. Alternatively, companies should be forced to pro-rate what they spend on benefits on 40h employees, for part-time. Then pay that, uh.. something. Doesn't really matter where, as long as they have to pay as much for 2x20h as 1x40h. And ideally working 2x20's would have a benefit fund that can be combined to give normal benefits.


Yeah but then that would take money away from all the private health insurance companies or whatever and rich people don't want that. How will they afford that new yacht? As well as some people complaining that their taxes will go up if we went to universal health care. Even though we already spend way to much on so many other stuff that we shouldn't (and usually don't get anything from). And the money being given to rich people, or the money not taken from rich people in taxes each year.


I work IT for a public school district. All field technicians ar hired as an "independent contractor" because they want to save money. While our department heads want us to be paid fairly, it ls administration


Ah yes, admin, the most bloated department everywhere (their heads too)


My entire team in a multi-billionaire top company is just contractors. Not a single full time employee with benefits . If my entire team left, the company would probably lose give or take a couple 10s+ of millions each day. I shit you not, we digitally prepare and keep production from falling apart. I’d say we are among the most essential part of the company. All. Contractors. I’m obviously looking for a job but it’s fucking rough. I am dumb as hell during interviews (nervous = forget everything) but praised by everyone work-wise even directors. I’m an engineer at one of the most profitable companies in the world. I still can’t even buy a decent fucking house.


> I’m an engineer at one of the most profitable companies in the world. I still can’t even buy a decent fucking house. Yup. Senior software dev here, I live with roommates despite having no debt because I'm literally priced out of the city I live in (and I have to live within so many miles of the office despite being WFH). Same deal with me, I'll write you code all day but I fail leetcode interviews because I just absolutely suck when put on the spot with questions that are 110% irrelevant to my day to day work.


Not much you can do when the gig economy workers don't want the same benefits of a full time employee. I know at least California tried to get it passed but people were very much against it. Edit: fucking reddit downvoting facts. It's not my fault they voted against their own interest, christ


Ca voter who was very much paying attention, no one I knew was paying attention to this issue and probably half of them Ive talked to were confused by the wording and thought they voted against letting Uber and lyft classify drivers as 1080 and I've seen some follow up reporting this may have swayed the numbers. To say its an appreciable amount could only be conjecture, but I do believe their tactic of confusing the electorate worked. California is a wildly apolitical place.


I bet a lot of trade workers who work "under the table" would be in this group as well.


Maybe, depending on how "under the table" they are. If there's little to no paperwork and theyre getting paid cash it probably wouldn't matter either way


“Don’t want” More like “think they’re getting a good deal but they’re not.”


It's semantics. It doesn't matter how much you tell them they're suffering if they're going to to vote against you in the end anyway


I think that's more the result of propagabda campaigns from businesses that would be affected (specifically uber)


Yeah pretty much this. As a Californian in the lead up to the election where this issue was on the ballot, the only ads I saw in regards to it were the ads telling us to vote NO on the prop. All of these ads were of course paid for by these gig companies who, because of the “independent contractor” loophole, had tons of money to dump into these campaigns whereas those in favor of the proposition didn’t run any ads and/or didn’t have the money to match these companies from what I could tell.


That the way everything in elections are now. END Citizens United! What a scam!


Why is it so hard to understand that there are a whole lot of us that want to be 1099? I'm a contractor, not a gig worker, but we're just as prevalent in the IT industry as W-2 and would fall under the same rules. I make way more money, with better tax breaks, and more leeway. It isn't for everyone, but to assume that we are all just stupid people buying into propaganda is ridiculous.


100% agreed. The issue isn't 1099 vs W-2. It is really skilled labor vs. unskilled labor.


That's great for you, but it isn't helping the Uber drivers who are getting shafted.


The root problem is the value they provide is not large enough to command higher pay in ANY form. Uber is not a profitable company and I don't think it ever was. Who is doing the ripping off? The company that can't turn a profit? If Uber could charge more, they would. They have tons of data and are probably getting the most anyone can get out of people who want to use their service. If prices rise, which has to be done to pay the higher wages you want, people will decline to use the service at all. The base problem is of skills and value provided, not greedy corporations. Don't let all these "bucket crabs" convince you that their own poor fates are evidence of how unfair the world is. It's on YOU to go out in the world and make your own way. People pay engineers six figures because they HAVE to, not because they should or because that's what they "deserve". All the sad sack aspartame-socialists who think it's a divine right to live a life in the top 20% of the world simply because they can flip burgers have nothing of value to teach you.


>Who is doing the ripping off? It's Uber. Uber is doing the ripping off. They're exploiting workers. That their business model relies on ripping off their workers to stay afloat is a bad thing. This isn't crabs in a bucket mentality. We have enough wealth that nobody needs to struggle to survive, which means it is morally reprehensible to let people struggle to survive.


Yea no shit, that doesn't change the end result. It worked


You say that like the gig workers were the only ones asked to vote. It barely didn't pass, and that's because the companies that stood to profit from the status quo ran huge ad campaigns to try and convince Californians to vote against it. There were certainly some gig workers against it. But to say that "the gig workers don't want the same benefits" is grossly misrepresenting what happened


Except they didn't vote against their interest. It is entirely in the interest of the average voter to have cheap rides.


My wife is seeing this happen at her job. She teaches fitness classes and part of her job is to be there 15 minutes before and 15 after the 1 hour class. This was for setup and customer relations. The company just verbally announced they are not going to pay for the added time. When pressed for the policy change in writing, the company is stating, “We are telling you in this meeting.” They repeat the answer but will not provide documentation of the policy change. I’m not a lawyer but I’m certain this goes against various employment laws. Also time cards have been adjusted without consent for many months.


If you live in a single party state, record them secretly. Have your wife independently track her hours and file a wage claim. When they dispute it, send in the recording...


Does that matter in this case? When a crime is being committed, you can record without consent. The job is intentionally not paying for labor, that’s a crime. I also wonder if you can file a lien on a business for this.


The correct thing to do would be to talk to a lawyer and not take legal advice from random people on Reddit.


In a single party state, you just need consent from 1 party to record a conversation. In a two party state, everyone involved in a conversation needs to consent. Crime or no crime, you would be violating wire tapping laws in recording a conversation they didn't consent to. Their lawyer might be able to persuade your evidence to be inadmissible and push a prosecutor to have you arrested for violating wire tapping laws. Any time you intend to record a conversation, look up the laws in your respective state. ​ This is a decent summary of the laws: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/


Reminder, the easiest way to tape a conversation in a 2-party consent state without technically getting their consent is to straight say you are recording. This satisfies the law requirements.


I think it does matter because then a good defending lawyer will potentially block the recording from being played since the defendant didn't consent to being recorded, and at that point you have no case.


If you have proof of the last sentence you could get that money back plus damages


the problem with wage thief tho is that the money being stolen is in small amounts, risking loss of job, and life disruption for the possibility of 2-3x of 16% of your paycheck isn't a great incentive for most people.


which can be times 2 or times 3 depending on the state.


Send email asking for policy change in writing (and make sure to spell out the change). If they say "we told you this in a meeting" it's same as admitting the change.


If it is allowed in here area/state/country, just record them saying that. That's proof.


When I worked as an usher at a major NYC theater, we had to wear uniforms that were basically like costumes. We had to come in before our scheduled clock in time to pick up the uniform from the wardrobe people and get dressed. Then we had to clock out before getting out of uniform and returning it. It was such bullshit, especially since there would always be a line of people waiting so it wasn't a quick in and out thing.


Don’t bother recording anything, contact the department of labor with exactly what you said and they will handle this. I worked at a company that changed rules like this on the fly and after DOL was done with them I enjoyed a nice check filled with all of the missing lag from those hours built up.


Are you allowed to say what company it is? Or would that get her in trouble?


Very tempted to but in this case it is not my place to do so.


When I worked at Applebee's they used to steal our hours all the time. Your paycheck hours would be different from the hours you actually worked. So I got a letter saying I could take part in a settlement to get some back pay. My manager at the time advised me against it because if I did the general manager would cut my hours and give me breakfast shifts. It wasn't worth it. I was struggling. Working 6 days a week. I just let them rob me.


Department of labor would have liked to hear about this threat of retaliation.


But OP gets fired and in the 24 months it takes him to sue he gets evicted and his car gets repossessed


That's why wage theft needs to be liberally criminally prosecuted instead of just the bullshit civil action that usually happens. People need to face time for stealing from your paycheck just like they would if they stole it from your bank account.


> That's why wage theft needs to be liberally criminally prosecuted instead of just the bullshit civil action that usually happens. People need to face time for stealing from your paycheck just like they would if they stole it from your bank account. On top of that, the penalty for wage theft rarely exceeds the amount owed. So if a large employer steals $1m in wages, the max penalty is $1m, with the actual penalty typically being FAR lower. It becomes a business expense. The repercussions of their theft becomes a profitable business expense!


Now imagine stealing $1m in merchandise. Corps rule the world.


> Now imagine stealing $1m in merchandise. If you steal $1m from someone with less wealth than you, it's civil. If you steal $1m from someone with more wealth than you, it's criminal.


If you steal $1m in merchandise, it’s civil and criminal, and liable for waaaaay more than $1m. If you steal $1m in labor, you are just signing up for buy now pay later (or never).


Should be $100 for every $1 stolen, with half going to the employee, and half into a state fund which is used to support people making claims.


Exactly. The legal system (never call it a justice system cause it isn't one!) is made in a way to screw over regular people. Companies and rich people can just draw out court proceedings from months, to years if they want cause they have lawyers on retainer. Meanwhile you can't afford to keep a lawyer constantly going back and forth to the courthouse every now and again and thus you run out of money and have to stop or settle etc. There have been countless examples of big companies screwing over people and even though it's clear the people are right and the companies should be in trouble they just draw it out until the other person can't afford it anymore. Thus why any idiot that claims "just sue them" is an idiot, because they apparently still don't understand how bad the legal system is.


Yeah I feel this. Just saying.


you can file complaints pseudo anonymously. they probably did it to everyone, so, it would be hard to pin it on any one person.


I didn't file! It was former employees who sued. They proved it was widespread so if you worked then you could opt into the settlement. It was based on how much you worked during the period they proved the wage theft. But if I opted in I would have gotten one breakfast shift a week.


we're talking about the manager retaliating for accepting a settlement. that is 100% illegal. DoL would have loved a call from you, and it could be anonymous. (but there's a limited pool of people who'd complain, so, it's not impossible to figure out.)


Yeah but the point is this all takes time and in that time you still gotta pay bills but now you have no job.


Nah. DoL is pretty quick about getting you your pay. Had to do this with a BK near me I was working at while waiting to start at the job I wanted. They tried to stiff me for 4 days' worth of work. They had locked the lobby the day I tried to serve them the demand for wages letter, so I handed it to them through the drive thru window. They still thought they were scott free, so I emailed the state DoL. A week later, my missing pay was deposited. At that point, according to state laws, I could have pursued them for upwards of 15 days pay because of the delay in payment. But I chose not to.


But isn’t this experience based on the state you live in?


Burger King is a larger faceless corporation, they’ll just pay it rather than waste money on lawyers. It’s the sleezy small/medium sized businesses that will drag people through the mud.


A good lawyer would call those: damages caused by the criminal actions of my client's former employer and your honor we *have* factored in the pain and suffering caused by the damages of said plantiff, into our suit. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.


Ok and how do you live in the meantime? Not everyone has a safety net. You can't be principled when your hungry.


Stupid argument, if you aren’t willing to defend yourself when it is your literal right to do so than you do you boo, but people with this mentality are the reason this shit keeps happening and managers feel empowered to act this way.


People have this mentality because they will literally starve on the streets for "defending themselves".


You get one of the hundreds of other jobs in your area. You should be applying immediately upon getting fucked and looking to move with intent to collect your debts on the way out. Stop getting owned because you cant think ahead.


Implying any of the other jobs are better...


Sorry, that last post was the end of my hypothetical. I would have kept it up but you made the number one improv blunder; you're not adding to the humor. Cheers. Edit: lol. Keep booing. Show's over.


Humor on someone else’s expense is risky. Humor at the downtrodden’s expense is just fucked up.


Shows you're not a lawyer. You're not getting in front of a jury on that case for at least 2 years, and when you do, if you call the employer a criminal (it's not a criminal claim) and argue for pain and suffering (not available for wage claims), the judge is going to tell the jury to leave, scream at you, declarate a mistrial, and probably sanction you. Otherwise, cool story.


Also it would be repayment of my $5 an hour wages. It was an offer of $200. It was not worth having to start from the bottom at a new restaurant for one night's tips.


So you worked your way up to $5 an hour?


It was more like my manager was warning me. Also backpay at a $5 an hour job ain't shit. Which is why them stealing your hours is even more egregious.


They would probably be like "we were gonna cut the free hours they were working" with a Grinch like sly grin.


Why would you tell your manager?


For future reference; "Ok manager", then sign up for the settlement, and immediately start looking for a new job.


Criminalize wage theft! Companies got it fucking made. Not only do they not get punished for committing a crime, they rarely even get sued because you need to report it and if the government finds merit in your claim, only then can you sue and you only have 90 days. And it's a pain in the ass to find a lawyer willing to take the case. I'm currently going through this. My 90 right to sue letter expires next week and those fuckers will have gotten away with it. My case was cut and dry too. They owned two companies. They were making me sign out of one and sign into another but continue to work for the 1st company so they didn't have to pay me overtime. I got my overtime money back but they retaliated against me when I complained and they even admitted to the investigator. On the flip side, if I were to steal money from my employer, I'd be arrested the same day.


California has! Now we need the rest of the country to follow suit


I fear that we're going to see the Federal Government step in and forcibly weaken California's sensible laws, some day soon.


clicked on the article to find out what these supposed systems are, but became too demoralized to find out.


Gotta keep talking about it and raising awareness


Awareness is definitely the best tool we have. People don't report it because they think it's normal and happens at every job. It will stop being normal when we all start reporting it


Most states have their own Department of Labor that can/is supposed to enforce wage regulations.


Wage theft is more than every other theft combined.


This is 100 percent the goal. Demoralized people don’t fight back. Broke people don’t fight back.


It will vary state by state if you're seeking state protections (which may have some pros/cons v. federal). Otherwise you can contact the [Department of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints). Can google your state's office or look for local wage theft nonprofits and ask them.


It should be treated like shoplifting. Each occurrence should be treated harsher than the last.


Oddly enough i read a unpopularopinion who only addressed shoplifting and not the number one expensive theft that happens. More money is taken by wage theft then shoplifting annually


More money is taken by police through civil forfeiture than all theft totaled.


Seriously doubt that. Some quick googling suggests ~$3 billion a year in civil forfeiture. Shoplifting is ~$15 billion a year. Didn't google all theft.




I see, though they are specifically talking about burglary (breaking into a private home/building and stealing from it). They aren't including things like shoplifting, auto theft, etc. That number for civil forfeiture that year was also inflated because it was the year they seized Bernie Madoff's assets, which doesn't happen every year.


Take $10 worth of snacks: criminal penalties, maybe even jail time Take $1000 of your employee’s wages: civil action, maybe you have to pay them


I think we need to just push citizen's united as far as it can go. If these corporations are people, we can execute them and imprison them. They can be enslaved to the state and work for pennies on dollar or they can be shut down permanently.


That’s a good point actually. If people have a three strikes rule or mandatory minimum sentencing, corporations should too.


If I see a murder, I am allowed to report it to the police even if I am neither the perpetrator nor the victim. But if I witness wage theft in the state of Washington? Turns out, I have to be either the perpetrator or the victim. I caught a local restaurant owner keeping the tips that go to employees. The WA DOL told me that they cannot take my report, and it has to be someone from the business who had their wages taken. Fuck. That.


Because it’s considered a civil suit. What needs to happen is classifying wage theft as a criminal act instead. Then anyone would be free to report it just like shoplifting or any other crime.


Wage theft is real, time theft is fake. Take a shit on company time.


I've been thinking of doing this, but the time clock is pretty high up on the wall. I would need the correct viscosity and proper ass-up aim.


*I believe in you!*


Three times a day, every day.


A piss strike is a thing, you know.


Apparently the guy i replaced was an absolute legend and would remote clock in when his alarm went off to wake up in the morning and then clock out when he got home. Adding 2 hrs a day to his already 12+hr days. I had to act like it was a disgusting thing to do when my trainer told me, but deep down I had nothing but respect for them man who did that.


Disappointed by the article's lack of one of the most effective ways workers can avoid wage theft. A Union.


Even Unionized employees deal with potential wage theft. They just have an “internal” Avenue for receiving adjustments/restitutions without formal retaliation.


Yeah, there exists a remedy available to non-unionized employees already. If there is a wage issue, all they have to do is file a complaint with the DOL or state equivalent. Unions don’t “solve” wage theft in the same way the FLSA and state laws don’t “solve” wage theft. Ultimately, it’s up to aggrieved employees to hold their employer’s feet to the fire if they believe they’re not being paid for all time worked. And if the employer retaliates, that just opens the door to more recoverable damages and penalties. Source: employment attorney


The best time to unionize was fifty years ago. The second best time is now.


I bet a new union office would love some new saplings out front to provide shade in fifty years as the new class of fed and educated workers walk in of their own volition Plant a tree. Unionize


If you're salary and work more than 40 hours a week, that's wage theft too.


Agreed, it needs to cut both ways, because our society needs consistency and accountability above all else


Most fast food places, including my last job, would gladly make general managers work 60-70 hour weeks with the pay of a 40 hour week with no breaks. It was fun.


My co-workers kept asking why I repeatedly turned down salary/management and only stayed on as prep&salad chef. Fuck working 50-90 hours a week for what amounts to 50 hours of minimum wage. When I was early-mid teens I busted my ass for 40-60hours a week, sometimes 60-80 hours a week at Disney World/Magic Kingdom. At least there I got overtime and double time, it still sucked, wrecked my back, and just generally was a shitty time, especially for my mental health. I still have PTSD from ticket printer sounds. Ever since 2006-2008 work culture has somehow gotten even MORE hostile towards workers. The businesses and even my direct management can go fuck themselves. I don't care about the company or them, nor do they care about me. It's not a family, even if it was it'd be an abusive one.


I've been in food a bit over 20 years and have never once seen a salary manager work 40 hours or less in a week. Many national chains have honestly very robust benefits to remain an attractive workplace, but I've never gone salary despite many opportunities just because of the hours. I've never been a victim of wage theft personally in all these years, but I do see how it could easily happen.


*weeps softly*


Fun fact - wage theft is much bigger than property theft. So corporations are stealing more from folks than thieves are. And yet cops are overfunded and DOL is underfunded... https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/


Nobody is shocked by this. The systems in place only protect the wealthy


If the law is not enforced then there will be no teeth to it.


Almost never gets punished and is rampant. Corporations steal time from their employees constantly, under vague threats.


I used to work at Tim Hortons. If you're really good at your job, and corporate is made aware of how many compliments you receive, they give you a letter and a rare golden Tim Card. They make a pretty big deal of it. The district manager would even hand deliver them to me. In 9 years, I only ever saw 2 other people get one, I had 7. The Tim Cards had a whopping $10 on them. It's a total slap in the face.


It even happened with exempt workers, especially during COVID. The large automotive suppliers.company I worked for (Starts with a D and ends with an Enso) sent out an email to us saying that if we didn't have "value added" work to do, we would get docked from our salary 8 hours of pay or we could use PTO. I was *at work* M-F during COVID lock down and was told to take a day off... I had work... I had a line install happening. The protections for all workers, exempt and non-exempt fucking suck.


I am literally going through this now. The last paycheck that I received was almost 2 months ago even though i have worked full time since then. I reported them to the DOL today and thankfully start my new job in a week and a half.


Soft on white collar crime


My last job had a system where the time clock would round your hours to the nearest 15 minutes or so. I forget the exact math on it but I found out wayyy to late that unless you took your lunch break on the 30s is would short you about 30 minutes a day. When I asked HR about this they said "we can't change anything, it's just how it is. Maybe don't start your lunch at 1:11 anymore"


That's legal. I worked at a place that did that when I was a teenager and would clock out for lunch at 11:23 and back in at 12:07 because fuck 'em.


It’s legal if and only if the rounding works the same way at both ends of the day/break.


Plus statute of limitations. I was run around for so long it didn’t matter anymore.


at least in my experience, getting in contact with someone to report was quite awful.


in my experience even if you get a judgement against an employer you have to go after an employer for the debt like a damn debt collector no one has time for that instead, the state, which the business can’t run from, should leverage their power to collect for their citizens but they don’t, and idk why


Because every politician is owned by these rich greedy fuckers. The whole system is built to squeeze the poor to feed the rich


This is your friendly reminder that Wage Theft dwarfs all other kinds of theft by a large margin. As up in arms as redditors get about the occasional video of someone walking out of Kohl's with a fuckload of clothes, it doesn't even come *close* to the amount of money stolen from employees by their employers.


MN passed a criminal wage theft law years ago. It has never been enforced. Even with the lack of enforcement republicans at every turn try to weaken and repeal it. It makes me sick. Throw a few of these fuckers in jail already. Either that or make it legal for me to punch any asshole in the face that says "People don't want to work anymore".


I worked at a public library and I was part of a union and higher ups still pulled this to show certain employees that were gonna get fired, I was one of them. I was hired two months before the pandemic and got "laid off" for 4 months. When I got back I was told since the pandemic happen my job description would change never got that in writing so I was fired just because of this BS claim along with the manger and HR wanting to get rid of me. When I filed for unemployment I was denied so I appealed it and showed the state my w2 and all my pay stubs. My case worker said this happens all the time and companies are finding ways to get rid of employees to save costs thanks to the pandemic.


...state systems meant to *look like they* combat it. FIFY


Happens in healthcare because they are having to pay multiple rates and many times work overtime. Also easy to forget to clock in and out if you work in peoples homes


2023 and the system is already crumbling from the ground up


They don't give a fuck. I called several places and they all said that unless you're making under minimum wage youre s.o.l.


"Its a big club..and you aint in it" - George Carlin


Wage theft should be treated as seriously as taking money out of the till. If an employee steals money, the business owner calls the cops and that's it. There is an entire system to investigate, arrest, and prosecute. The owner doesn't have to *do* much else. If the business owner commits wage theft, even blatantly and often, there is no police to call. The victim has to report to some overstressed federal or state agency, or they have to pay for the prosecution out of pocket by hiring a lawyer and suing. This is inherently immoral.


Wage then is literally 100x more stolen than general item theft yet we lock people up for stealing formula.


I'm going to tell you a secret. I worked in HR for two different companies. This was at the corporate level, so I was overseeing the HR departments in all 50 states. Did you know that both corporations had employees who's job it was to report to me from their "second job" the names of the people who reported the company for labor violations? Yep, that's right. There are people who work in the departments of labor in all 50 states, that were on the payroll for both AT&T and Verizon, that would provide the names of each and every person that made a labor complaint. Those who report anonymously are *never* anonymous. And termination "for not being a good fit" is the result. As long as those who steal wages are not punished with jail time (rather than a fine) there will continue to be wage theft.


Capitalism is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. No surprise there.


It's the most prominent and expensive form of theft by a country mile and yet 🤷🏾‍♂️


Yet I’ve had corporate managers threaten to fire me for “stealing company time” pretty often in my last job.


Unless it takes tax money away from "job providers" they Do. Not. Care. When I was raising my child alone and not getting child support the state did not care until I went on unemployment, could not find another job, then had to go on EBT. Suddenly they were all "why aren't you getting child support?" I hadn't gotten it for years and they did not care about my barely surviving while he was driving brand new luxury vehicles, bought a boat, and a brand new Harley but when it looked like it might affect the tax base it was critical. They. Don't. Care.


Do you trust the state to be competent enough to actually DO anything about wage theft without fucking over the whistle blower through incompetence. I sure as hell don't. At a long time job I had (over twenty years) I discovered what my employer was doing was pretty sketchy in an ambiguous way. I wanted to inform on them and when I went to tattle... the EEOC wanted my name and other info. Yeah, and if I gave it to them and they told my employer... guess what happens to my job I valued and wanted to keep?


Yep. I'd love to know how I'm compensated for the 6 hours I spent after work doing more work for work. Oh wait, I won't get compensated because "salary".


Salaried workers who meet certain supervisory standards are typically exempt from overtime pay rules, according to the FLSA. Currently, one of the standards is that those workers must be paid more than $455 per week, or $23,660 annually. The Department of Labor is proposing to boost that exempt salary level to workers earning more than $679 a week, or $35,308 a year. Workers who are at or above the exempt salary standard may still be eligible for overtime, but it is based on their job duties. There are three classifications of workers who, if paid a qualifying salary, are exempt from overtime rules. For a job to be considered exempt in each of these classifications, however, all the standards in the classification must be met: Executive exemption: These employees must be paid at least $455 a week; manage a department or subdivision of the organization; supervise two full-time workers; and participate in the hiring and firing of other employees. Administrative exemption: These employees must earn at least $455 a week and do office or other administrative work related to the organization’s management or general business operations. Professional exemption: These professional workers must earn a salary of at least $455 a week; perform mostly intellectual work based on advanced knowledge; be in a field of science or learning; and acquire this knowledge through many years of training. So if you earn a salary and are considered an executive, but only supervise one employee, you may be eligible for overtime.


I got shorted over $250 by an Amazon delivery service and the State refused to do anything about it because they "can only make companies comply with minimum wage."


Employers: "We're paying you the lowest amount allowable by law and we're also gonna skim your tips and ask you to clock out early while you're still working". Also employers: "We just can't find any good people to work here. Pardon us for the shit service." Right wing talking heads: " Jobs go unfilled 'cause Gen Z has no work ethic".


My old boss who was a family friend for 50 years tried to steal my wages, I figure she robbed me of about 55k over 3 years. I worked 70-80 hour weeks and she never paid me more than 44 hours a week otherwise she would have to pay me overtime. So that ended up being nearly 800 hours a year of unpaid overtime and unpaid wages all together since I was only paid for 44 hours a week. However I had evidence on her for tax evasion upwards of 150k a year for 3+ years, and she owned the business for 30 years and it definitely wasn't something new she was doing. I had all the proof in the world from pictures of documents, to voice recordings of her talking about it, pictures of 60k+ in raw cash stashed away. If you paid cash she wouldn't charge you tax for it so a group would pay 30k cash and save $4000 from not having to pay taxes etc. I had enough evidence for an easy conviction however she died a year after I quit due to complications after a surgical procedure. I guess she trusted me since my grandparents knew her for 50 years and I knew her since I was a kid. But all that went out the window once she had my grandparents guilt trip me into dropping the wage theft claim I told her I was going to make if she didn't pay me. I don't know why they sided with her or what she told them but her doing that low blow move just put me over the edge honestly.


This is somewhere there should be sentencing minimums. Even if its just a week. This should get you prison time automatically.


This is by design. Complex systems aren't built to serve every individual person's needs, but rather to deliver consistent results. In this case, these systems are delivering consistently **bad** results. And they'll continue to do so until there's enough pushback to break the system so that it has a chance to reform. We should all be complaining at that these crimes go so consistently unpunished, and not relent.


Just like gun laws are working in the US. Laws do not work unless people choose to obey them.


People will only choose to obey them if they are enforced.


Income tax is also wage theft, let's work on getting rid of income tax.


Here’s a my train of thought: Comrades don’t steal from comrades. If someone steals from a comrade, they aren’t a comrade. If it’s not a comrade, it’s a capitalist. And capitalists, well those are the enemy.