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Aruseus493

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RepresentativeBelt99

Strongest version is probably Rudeus in the Mark Zero. Oldeus beats him in the sheer amount of different types of magic he can use, but the mark zero multiplies the mark 1's power many times over (and it's stated that the mark 1 was a vast improvement over Oldeus' magic armor). He can run bare minimum 400km/hr in that suit, jump massive distances, likely tens of miles at a time, and withstand attacks from a guy that needed a world-shattering attack to beat. It's safe to say Rudeus we see in Jobless Oblige/later parts of Redundancy is the strongest version. He can fight with the big boys of anime, but not to a DBZ/OPM world destroying level. At the end of the day he's just a human with magic strong enough to destroy cities with a single spell and he has an insane set of armor to compliment it.


CHRIS10234

Thank you man so he is as fast as some planes and has a planet destroying attack so probably low 5-B to 5-B for attack potency so probably be able to play with early DBZ (tho his speed would weaken him since many characters already have FTL reaction time) or late OG Dragon ball


RepresentativeBelt99

Rudeus doesn't have planet destroying attacks, because his body can't handle it. If he tried, he MIGHT be able to pull something on that level off, at the most he can shape the world with a single attack. It would definitely use all of his mana at once and kill him though. He also MIGHT be able to deal with FTL speeds in the mark 0, because he fights Kalman III and wins, who can block the sword of light (attack that is the speed of light, but nothing like DBZ where they transcend it) without instantly dying. He's basically at the very edge of fighting early DBZ in his most powerful form with the right preparations, and going all out while willing to die. A better comparison would be Orsted vs DBZ characters, and to be completely honest, I have no idea where Orsted matches up against an early DBZ Goku. The first Dragon God has world destroying level power, but we don't know if Orsted is capable of that because it's never shown.


SharkmanRO

Preety sure Orsted is no way near the strenght of the original gods, but he does have the godsword (I think he could damage a god with that). I think dragon god Laplace is even stronger since he destroyed mountains with his bare fists when he was only a dragon general, and he can cast god ranked spells


RepresentativeBelt99

Orsted is stated to be stronger than Laplace, when he's willing to spend the mana to go all out. Orsted doesn't have the god-gem/crystal or whatever it's called, but he's still the son of a god and a demi-god. That's why Orsted is the one that's meant to beat Hitogami, and Laplace is meant to be his assistant and researcher. Edit: Didn't Orsted absorb a God-gem during the original Dragon God's spells/curses cast upon him? From what I remember of Old Dragon's Tale, Orsted was the one that could've ruled over all gods, and then he absorbed a god's life force.


SharkmanRO

Yeah they both have a God Gem, but I still think Laplace is on par if not stronger than him (Yeah Orsted is a demi god but we still don't know Laplace's origin). The first dragon god cut Chaosbreaker in half from a big distance and did not even get a scratch from all the spells the dragon generals threw at him. I think Orsted would win only if he used the godsword, But Laplace has been researching knowledge and tehniques for thousands of years, he appears to be phisically stronger (deleting mountains with no magic or weapons) and I think posseses way more knowledge about magic (he created the Fighting God armor) He could be the progenitor of most if not all the sword styles and tehniques used in the series, has no restriction on his mana regeneration and we still know know how his demon half would work (The demon god side of him is mentioned to be of the immortal demon tribe). Makes me wounder how the heck did Badigadi even have a chance against him, and how did his soul end up getting split. Anyway I think they can't defeat Hitogami 1on1 because H mentions that he won't lose to a "small fry" such as Orsted, and he says that his future only turned black once other people showed up besides Orsted. PS Now that I think about it, could the curse of hate that Orsted and Laplace have be a result of the God Gem, or Maybe Hitogami did something,


RepresentativeBelt99

Your impression seems like it hypes up Laplace in every way possible without doing the same for Orsted. Technically, Orsted has been researching and studying the world for at least twice as long as Laplace. There's also a solid chance that he's met with Technique God Laplace and learned from him many times before. Laplace did not delete mountains without magic or weapons, it used all of his Touki that he had at the time, and that was to defeat a single Demon King (during his fight in the Dragon World). The hit that created the Ringed Sea split his entire existence in half. Sure, we don't know the origins of Laplace, but it's clearly stated that Orsted wins the fight between the two. My understanding is that Laplace is definitely a godly power after being given a god gem, but compared to a fully powered Orsted he will lose, every single time, guaranteed. Basing Orsted's strength off of Hitogami's comments seems completely unfair. Hitogami only understands that he can't go all out. That means, even if he sees a future where Orsted kills Laplace, then comes for him, he sees Orsted fighting as someone that isn't going all out. That's probably because he didn't go all out against Laplace, or anyone else he had to fight in that loop, then went at Hitogami from 20-70% strength. Hitogami fundamentally does not understand that Orsted can't regenerate mana in the same way a normal being can. He's fighting a guy that seems like a simpleton because Orsted is playing a bigger game than Hitogami, you can't expect Hitogami to understand Orsted's small moves. Hitogami sees Orsted as a guy doing single things that make the smallest difference. Orsted is playing the long con, trying to figure out every single thing, so Hitogami will always view him as a "small fry" until the loop eventually comes where Orsted kills him. In regards to Orsted's curse, I think that's a direct result of the Dragon God killing and destroying 95% of the worlds and their inhabitants. At least, that's the impression I got after they repeated the phrase "After Dragon God-sama destroyed x-world, the dragon race became hated" every single time a world was destroyed.


SharkmanRO

I think I was hyping up Laplace a little too much, but I still think they are about equal (I think the Godsword would play a major role in their fight) >until the loop eventually comes where Orsted kills him. He doesn't want to kill Hitogami because that could destroy the world (like when the other worlds collapsed when their Gods died tho Idk how He replaced the original human god without that happening, maybe it has something to do with the fact that Hitogami formed out of the Creator God's body and he qualifies as one of the other gods?) >After Dragon God-sama destroyed x-world, the dragon race became hated" every single a world was destroyed. Yeah the dragon race became hated, but to the extent of Orsted's and Laplace's curse. Perugius and Dragon God Urupen (Ulupen?) Did not seem to have that problem. Their curse is way to extreme to be considered racism or something similar, and that would not explain why The demon god side of Laplace got the curse instead of the tehnique god It could also be a result of their reincarnation


RepresentativeBelt99

Against a fully powered Laplace (not split in half) I think Orsted would definitely have to use Godsword. Split in half, I'm not so sure. Orsted must have fought Hitogami in the past to know what he knows. Maybe the reason he lost those fights against Hitogami was because he had to use Godsword against Demon God Laplace. However, it seems to me like Orsted FOR SURE wants to kill Hitogami and is fine with it until Rudeus and his family come along. I think the decision to seal him came after, but that's purely speculation. Orsted basically just says "yeah if the world is destroyed when we kill him that's totally a possibility, idk". Orsted withholds info from Rudy, but something like that I think would've been stated. I don't think it's the right move to couple Laplace's curse and Orsted's in one though. Laplace was hated since he was born, apparently because of his green hair. Orsted was hated due to his innate curse, or due to an instinctual fear in the same way wolves have a fear of humans in the real world. That does beg the question though, why was green hair so feared before Laplace was born? From what we were told in the original series, green hair was feared because Demon God Laplace corrupted the Superd 400 years ago, but from Laplace's story, green hair was feared thousands of years before that. Also, it makes sense that it's not an actual curse if Perugius and Urupen don't hate either of them. That shows that its specific to race. Dragons don't hate them, but the races that were originally from planets destroyed by dragons do.


SharkmanRO

>Also, it makes sense that it's not an actual curse if Perugius and Urupen don't hate either of them. That shows that its specific to race. Dragons don't hate them, but the races that were originally from planets destroyed by dragons do. Dont quote me on that but I think the curse does affect Perugius, he just doesn't show it much, like how Rudy's wifes still feel fear but don't act on it, or how Alek doesn't seem to be bothered by it. And if it was a racial matter, wouldn't Perugius or Urupen be hated as well?


Kono_Mr_Seta_Da

Actually, he needs to use the godsword against half laplace too, only a superd or the godsword can kill him, and he said it too when he was talking with rudeus about what to do if ruijerd died, i think his words were: "Using Godsword is also an option" so he probably used it sometimes against him.


SharkmanRO

I think Orsted would have to use the Godsword or magic to kill the tehnique god or the demon god, he had to use it against Rudeus and Alek with the Dragon king sword and the fighting god armor, so it's only natural he has to go all out on them. >I don't think it's the right move to couple Laplace's curse and Orsted's in one though. Laplace was hated since he was born, apparently because of his green hair. He was hated but, but not to that extreme level, he met with the other Gods and their subordinates and they didn't seem to piss themselves or begin to cry in from of him, not even the humans or the beast race >That does beg the question though, why was green hair so feared before Laplace was born? From what we were told in the original series, green hair was feared because Demon God Laplace corrupted the Superd 400 years ago, but from Laplace's story, green hair was feared thousands of years before that. Maybe it has something to do with Laplace's origin, so we might never know for sure until we find out who the hell are his parents, and that's if he has any, or maybe "he just came into existence" like Hitogami. Strange to see such a good character who got his own spin off series be one of the most mysterious. I really hope he can somehow be put back as a whole maybe by merging his his halves?


spoodleman43

Thought Laplace couldn't use tokui


SharkmanRO

That's 100% wrong, only his demon half can't, but he would use his mana as a pseudo toki


spoodleman43

Like Narutos fox Chakra cloak?


CHRIS10234

I just ask what tier he could be considered tho the info is pretty informative


PlankWooden

Rudeus isn't even a planet buster, no one is


CHRIS10234

Ok cool, so what tier is he ?


SharkmanRO

He can wipe a big city with a single spell (similar to a small nuke in firepower)


CHRIS10234

So 7-C


SharkmanRO

It's kinda hard to power scale Rudeus, since with no armor and if he's not careful he can be killed by preety much anything, his body is really fragile


CHRIS10234

Also is that his strongest attack did he need help etc


SharkmanRO

Prolly his strongest attack I think, other OP attack would be lighting, freezing everything on a large scale, stone canon, creating large rooks and dropping them Madara style etc. He can do them on the spot with no help


CHRIS10234

I see , also when did he made this feat like when he was still young his prime or being old (sorry for asking so many questions)


SharkmanRO

He was around 18, he also has the highest amount of mana in the series if that helps with the scalling


CHRIS10234

Thank you so much


Independent-Cover-42

Nah, Rudy after the last fight didn’t make any notable progress with his magic since he shifted an extreme majority of his time and energy for taking care of his family and running errands. He still trained, but only to a degree that kept him in shape. He had lost to Eris almost everytime he did mock battles with her, while our friend from future clapped her eventually. Also, where on earth did you pull all those statistics out of ? Geez. The MK0 is a massive mana sponge, wasting time running miles would squeeze him dry.


RepresentativeBelt99

They never really say that he completely stagnates iirc, but it's safe to assume he wasn't pushed to the level Oldeus' was in regards to combat training. We never see a situation where Rudeus really has to fight in Redundancy/Jobless, so speculating that he stopped learning is just as groundless as assuming that he got substantially more powerful in regards to the different types of magic he can use. The statistics are the result of multiplying the MK-1's attributes (which are stated very clearly) many times over. The MK-1 can run over 200km/hr, and leap hundreds of meters at a time. I might've overshot the distance he can jump, but I also probably undersold how fast he can run with it. I never said he could do it indefinitely either. It's just a difference of opinion I guess. I don't see a world where Oldeus can match the MK-0, no matter how powerful his magic is. If he wanted to, Rudeus could just nullify everything Oldeus threw at him for 10 seconds and slam into him at hundreds of km/hr. Against different opponents, they'd probably get different results. If it was an army, Oldeus would perform better, but fighting 1 on 1 against eachother or any of the 7 world powers I think Rudeus wins in the MK-0, assuming he can end the fight quickly.


Independent-Cover-42

Well redundancy showed us Rudeus prioritised researching miscellaneous stuffs like household appliances and A.I, and taking his wifes and kids out for vacations every now and then. We also got several chapters of him going on diplomatic trips and running errands, so assuming common logic is still prevalent, i find it unlikely for Rudeus to have enough room for any significant development. I guess i was overplaying the old man, there’s not many details regarding his combat ability. We just know of his feats, which include wiping out an entire faction of Millis and beating up high-level swordsmen like a North Emperor or Water Emperor on a frequent basis to question them with ease. All of these are incredibly impressive, considering our Rudy lost to Eris, a sword king on a daily basis. Also, the old guy was fighting for decades, i find it hard to fathom he didn’t face people with an anti-magic stone, not even once. But ultimately i assume the comparison is entirely up to our interpretation.


VirenXEdge

it should be noted that Eris is actually emperor level in strength and mock battles don't favor rudy. But yeah while redaundency could be stronger oldeius is the definite stronger rudy. Eris repeatedly tried to kill him but didn't and thats with oldeus being well extremely emotionally conflicted with her.


kwnz87

At what age does he get the armor tho? Does he gave room to grow to be the strongest in this verse?


RepresentativeBelt99

He can't be the strongest in the universe solely based off race. Dragons/demons are capable of more because their bodies are more resilient


kwnz87

Damn feels bad


nyitraibotond

Hard to say. On his own, he is not very strong. His real strength is his huge amount if mana, with which he can beat others in a longterm fight, or use a magic armor, enhancing his combat caoabilities.


SharkmanRO

Yeah he's weak without the magic armor, but if he starts the fight from a distance, his durability doesn't rly matter if he just nukes his enemies


m0ushinderu

Just wanna add that after the final battle Rudy did not get involved in worthy fights anymore, BUT his magics and armor were still improving, especially after Lily started researching into them. They mentioned at the end that they were able to improve mk2 so much that a normal mage can use them, so I can only imagine that if anything they would be able to improve mk0's power efficiency vastly as well.


Kono_Mr_Seta_Da

Magic Armor MK-0² Revenge of the armor Magic Armor MK-3-3 Return of the mage


Kono_Mr_Seta_Da

He's a mountain buster pretty easily, has some nice spells like Frost Nova (absolute zero) which is most likely, a true absolute zero, since he imagines particles stopping moving and vibrating. Probably supersonic/hypersonic reaction time since he's able to react to orsted's attacks and badigadi too. On MK-0 he has some nice defense feats, like tanking FG badigadi's punches, which are able to damage Dragon-Demon god Laplace.


Independent-Cover-42

Uh no, he managed to react to them thanks only to his foresight eye (in Orsted’s case) and battle instinct. He couldn’t react to anything supersonic like you claimed since he’s a human with absolutely no touki.


Kono_Mr_Seta_Da

Maybe? I mean, it doesn't changes the fact that he's able to see it, maybe not 100% react but if he can see it with the foresight eye then he can kinda react to that attack.


Independent-Cover-42

Well, i think it depends on our definition of “reaction” since the way i see it, he had already evaded the attack before it occurred, not in response to the attack after it occurred.


WastelandWiFi

Continental


Distinct_Cheetah_96

I want also add if he could literally crush them with gravity magic


CHRIS10234

How strong is gravity magic like is it as strong as a black or just like 2× stronger


Nice_Win8692

is hard to say, more than one time is mentioned that Rudeus has more raw mana than Laplace, and Laplace was basically a Continente Destroyer, but Laplace know almost everything that has to know about magic, Rudeus knowledge is very smaller, so he has the raw magic power, but now the necessary knowledge to use that raw magic power ina more advanced way, his biggest magic will probably be able to destroy a city. but Rudeus is also a big glass cannon, and he will probable dont survive using some extremely destructive spells like that


VirenXEdge

Rudeus Well i say continent level effecting attack he is an emperor ranked magacian they can do that. country level at minimum


PlankWooden

If it was a fight I would say Oldeus, Oldeus is way more powerful and knowledgeable in magic than Mark Zero Rudeus. The MK0 armor takes too much mana from Rudues and ran out of mana very quickly after fighting Fighting God Badigadi. Oldeus could just fly with gravity magic and spam attacks while dodging MK0 Rudues's attacks. Eventually MK0 Rudeus would be drained of mana. If you are talking about pure strength then it would be MK0 Rudues.


RepresentativeBelt99

Oldeus is way, way, way too slow to withstand an onslaught from MK-0. Sure, he can fly, but the same limitations apply to his physical speed as a normal Rudeus in a mk-2. Also, Rudeus in the timeline we know of lived just as long, and had help along the way. Oldeus was on his own, and was strong because he developed magic on his own using the physics and chemical reactions that are commonplace in our world. Combine Fighting God Armor technology along with what a 40 year old normal Rudeus would have learned with his own ability as well as the help of Cliff, Roxy, Zanoba and Orsted on top of the MK-0. I think the Rudeus we know would've been able to demolish Oldeus in a few seconds. The dude was making modern technology into household magical appliances before he died. He was much more than Oldeus ever was. That's one of the whole points of the series. Rudeus is so strong because of his allies. The dude was making magic tools/dolls that were more advanced than Chaos' creations at that point. Put a 30 year old Rudeus against the strongest version of Oldeus, and it isn't even a fight.


Independent-Cover-42

You realized Oldeus also invented A.I with Zanoba in the alternative timeline right ? And that was without the help of Orsted, Perugius and other experts on the job. Just the two of them. Oldeus could create all that advanced stuffs too, just he didn’t find the motivation for it after Sylphy and Roxy died. The diary showed this. In terms of combat, we don’t know what Oldeus was truly capable of since he rarely depicted his fights. But keep in mind he beat North Emperors, Water Emperors and didn’t give two shits about them, hinting that they were essentially a cakewalk for him. And we re talking people on the level of Auber and Isolte here, with the latter parrying blows from the Fighting God. Gravity magic is also broken, and that combined with his vast mana pool, no doubt it would be game-breaking. On the other hand, MK1 Rudy couldn’t beat Alek with DK sword even when Alek’s arm and leg was torn off until a very lucky accident that tilted the table in his favour. The Mk0 is strong, but basically a mana sponge that sucks his mana faster than my ex depleting my wallet. I highly doubt that Oldeus didn’t encounter any big guy wrapped in walls of steel in his decades of fighting. In addition, Rudeus’ power didn’t scale linearly, he stopped making any real progress aside from the MK3 and allocated the vast majority of his time to running errands and taking care of his family. People overvalued Orsted’s presence too. Boss wasn’t a good teacher and didn’t teach Rudy anything notable after the last fight and instead spent his time scheming and recording events. Then there’s the obvious lack of motivation to do so as well.


Miteigi74

Gravity magic still can be countered by Ranma and Magic Absoprtion stone that the Magic Armor have.


Independent-Cover-42

Oldeus also have mana absorbing stone, the story only diverged post-vol 15. Since the gatling gun is basically shooting out rock cannon spells at high speed, he could nullify it too. Their completely similar mana pool makes it possible to do so.


Miteigi74

Which then will make a deadlock between the two as both side's magic would be nullified. The absorbing stone also nullifies Rudeus' own spell too. The only thing left is the quality of the armors where Oldeus have worse.


Independent-Cover-42

The only thing that has been bugging me is whether the stone also hinders the mana flow within the armor. If that’s the case then they’re death staring each other til next morning lol. If not then they’re playing Tom and Jerry, or trying to exploit the downtimes between each use of the anti magic stone. But let’s take the rock out of the equation, I believe it boils down to whoever gets the initiative and fight more effectively. Since the latter scales with experience and knowledge, i am betting my money on the old man.


Salty_Professor_8982

I am curious about gravity magic though. Can oldest use it on others to slow them down if he can't match their speed? That would be a pretty good use of it.


churribaaz

Can he defeat Arthur from "the beginning after the end" Manhwa?


6_sarcasm_6

It's definetely a no, or a stalemate. no winning in that one. Also arthur time stop broken AF,