T O P

Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show. The AD did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant.

Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show. The AD did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant.

Minsc_and_Boo_

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges. Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times. EDIT: **apparently the reason there were live rounds on set and in the gun was that some people had been taking the rare vintage .45s out for shooting and forgot to remove the rounds or mixed them with the dummies. The fuckup starts there. So the DP and director were shot by an actual, honest to god .45 lead slug which explains the ridiculous damage** https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-used-off-set-target-practice/


Rrraou

Isn't gun management supposed to be a specific guy's job ? The Armoror or something like that ? Someone in the organisation needs to be charged with criminal negligence.


JerHat

Yes. Based on the sets I’ve been on, it blows my mind an AD handed the gun to Baldwin, and not an armorer. On a proper film set, you’re not even allowed to move an extension cable if you’re not in the electrical department. Or move an empty camera case out of your way if you’re not in the camera department. There was absolutely someone on that set who was responsible for clearing that firearm, and making sure it was safe, and handing it to Baldwin, and they didn’t. And for some strange reason an AD thought it was his job to hand it off to Baldwin. That’s insane.


yuppers_

I'm still confused as to why there were live rounds on the set.


nucumber

lost of discussion about definitions of blanks and live rounds that miss the point of your question - what were real bullets doing on the set?


NameOfNoSignificance

Dude yes! literally people are playing semantics when the original redditor is still right. Why were there real bullets around. No one has even bothered answering that


CornjobWillBeBlamed

The AD breaking the chain is *super* fucked up. And I too remember moving a cable on a studio lot *maybe* two feet and had 2 guys calmly put the the fear of god in me. A union guy name [*redacted*] stepped in and cooled it down *only* because we we're booking his wife on commercials on a regular basis.


InterstellarCapa

So now I'm slightly concerned because I have worked on film (union) sets where the AD would double check the weapons with the armourer and PM to ensure safety. And who ever handed the weapon over to the actor(s) either the armourer or AD was the last line of defense. But I can confirm is you touch, even pinky touch, something (anything) that is not in your department you will get Judgement Day served.


CornjobWillBeBlamed

the entire production sounded like a shitshow making union crew drive hours home *after* full days shouldve been everyones red flag to bail Among others the P.M. is FUUUUUUUCKED.


InterstellarCapa

I've been on some shite productions, some may even say questionable productions, but even to save some money crew and cast was always housed in close vicinity of set.


DeanBlandino

Apparently the armorer wasn’t even on set which blows my mind too. So many people are calling for extensive protocol changes, but what difference do protocols make if people don’t follow them.


Dark4ce

I just don’t understand how the AD could even get their hands on a gun if the armorer wasn’t present, let alone a loaded one?! They don’t just leave em around on a prop table. And why live rounds? My own experience on a set with an armorer was one of extreme vigilance. He wasn’t further than 5 meters at any given time from the guns and once the shots with them were done, he took them back. He even specifically told the talent that he was to give the gun to nobody else but him and if he didn’t want to carry it, give it to him. The man was pretty pro, but I assumed that was just part of the job.


DaShaka9

I’ve worked in film for 25 years and while I don’t agree with the other statements all that much, anything with props or stunts has always been a HUGE fucking deal on checking, double checking, and triple checking everything for safety. This is insane, it was preventable in so many ways that it’s so incredibly angering.


DrRandomfist

The armorer is a 24 year old gal who got her job because of nepotism and admitted last month during an interview she wasn’t sure she was ready to take a job like this.


SolanGoose

>“It was a really badass way to start off a really long and cool career," she said on the podcast.” Not that long anymore


mcpickledick

She actually said “It was a really badass way to start off a really long and cool career, I hope". It's like she knew.


CornfuciusSay

Am I being douchey by saying "How hard can it be to check whether or not the guns are loaded"?


naturalorange

no, but im guessing they were using revolvers where the chambers are visible, so instead of having empty visible chambers they inserted dummy rounds with no powder in them. The problem is they would be basically identical to a live round unless they have something to mark them. Ideally they would either use a plastic prop round or just drill a hole through the side of the casing where it wouldn't be visible when chambered. So it could be very difficult to know if it's a hot gun or cold gun with rounds loaded to make it look hot. An additional safety measure would be to have a "cold gun" where the hammer was shortened or limited from actually being able to hit the round so even if a live round was loaded it wouldn't be able to be fired. It sounds like this was a low budget production that was cutting corners and probably did no steps to ensure the weapons were safe for actors. The entire production should be shutdown and cancelled and all of the people involved with making decisions around the firearms should be charged with negligence. To have so many accidents and continue production without taking serious steps to fix them is insane.


oatmealndeath

What gets me is that the Times has reported this and viewed the text. Texting the UPM is serious shit - the UPM is the most senior production person before you get into Producers. If the producers are the board, the UPM is the CEO. And still, today the production company issues a statement saying that safety is a top priority and that they hadn’t been made aware of concerns about misfires. Half their crew walked but they weren’t made aware? Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.


SolanGoose

LA Times reported non-union showed up after their concerns and the remaining union crew was escorted out and told not to come back https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set


OneFrenchman

Well, Landis managed to walk after killing 3 people on the Twilight Zone, even with people on the record telling him the stunt was too dangerous, the helicopter too low... They even tried to blame Morrow, who was - let's not forget - decapitated and mutilated in the accident. It feels kinda like NASA Shuttle accidents. Afterwards you realize a lot of people were aware of the problems, but nobody in a position of power did anything.


[deleted]

[удалено]


OneFrenchman

On the Twilight Zone movie, Landis directed a scene where an actor (Vic Morrow) was followed by a helicopter while holding two kids and crossing a small river. There were explosions around, supposed to be Vietnam. Landis asked for bigger explosions and for the helicopter to fly lower, for dramatic effect. The explosions were too big and the helicopter too low, the heat made it drop right out of the sky, on top of Morrow who was trying to grab one of the kids who had slipped and dropped in the water. John Landis was cleared of all wrongdoing and they tried to blame Morrow (who, again, was dead) for not running fast enough/not keeping track of the chopper well enough. If you ask Landis, he'll probably say the special effects guys are to blame. Buck sure as hell doesn't stop with him.


kaybreaker

There was so much wrong with that set, it's honestly disgusting. They lied to the Fire Marshall; the kids were hidden until it was time to shoot because it was after they were supposed to be off set plus the proximity to explosions; the kids families were paid under the table to get around child labor laws. I believe they also shot it despite the concerns of the pilot and multiple other technicians as well. Theres a bunch I'm sure I'm forgetting but that whole situation was awful and incredibly preventable.


itsthecoop

I think one issue is that these kind of things only draw a lot of criticism if they go wrong. e.g. James Cameron having his stunt pilot fly the helicopter under that freeway bridge for "Terminator 2"? "Bold." but if it had gone wrong, it would probably been regarded as completely irresponsible.


kaybreaker

Exactly, completely agree. Better industry standards are needed in general honestly. When dealing with potential for life and death people need to make damn sure.


AtleeMakesHam

Vic Morrow’s daughter (Jennifer Jason Leigh) sued for wrongful death and got a settlement, but no one went to jail. It’s good to be rich and famous.


KingOfAwesometonia

The two kids dying also fucks me up just any time reading about. It's insane they were around such a dangerous scene. Not to underscore Morrow's death either. Just depressing.


lsp2005

The armorer is a 24 year old child of another armoror who the month before said they did not have the experience to be in this lead role. Nepotism at its finest caused a preventable death.


pandas795

[Apparently this wasn't the first time it happened](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set)


WaywardWriter

IATSE members are now saying that the union Camera Crew all quit because of safety issues. They were replaced by non-union workers on Friday morning the day of the shooting. Union members specifically quit because of the use of live ammo on the set previously - and two separate accounts of weapons misfiring.


Failninjaninja

Ok if that’s real there’s going to be a fuck ton of lawsuits


HistoricalBridge7

Lawsuits? No, people need to go to jail. Edit for comma


-Tom-

They don't need to be mutually exclusive


Ok-Ant-3339

I am really curious to find out whether those two earlier incidents involved real bullets, because if they did, holy crap I'd be out of there so fast


EstablishmentFun2035

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/alec-baldwin-misfire-wasnt-the-first-time-film-crew-says From this article, one of the problems was that the people in charge were calling 'cold gun' - gun w/o anything in it - and a round/something fired. Which is appalling because there should be absolutely nothing in the gun if it's cold. For the fatal shot, according to the article, the AD picked up a gun from a set that were all supposed to be cold, called 'cold gun', and Baldwin fired...


quadmasta

Seems like they should have a flag out the ejection port and the mag out if it's supposed to be a cold gun. Pretty easy to pull the flag and put in an empty mag to shoot a scene. It's kinda crazy to me they don't have guns with no firing pin for guns that aren't supposed to go bang with different scales so they're readily identifiable


The_Original_Gronkie

There are already really strict accepted protocols for guns on sets. Just think of the millions of rounds that are fired every year in all the movies made, and accidents are nearly non-existent. For there to be two misfires, and then a fatal misfire, all in one week, shows that those protocols were either totally ignored, or the gun handler was woefully incompetent.


A_giant_dog

My only question is what the fuck were **any** live rounds doing on the set at all, much less loaded into a gun? E: a surprising amount of y'all are pedantic and have informed me that while "live round" to everyone means "a shell casing with a primer, gunpowder, and a slug" in movie world it means "a shell casing with a primer and gunpowder, no slug" Thank you for your input. This gun shot a bullet.


Animastryfe

[From the highest upvoted comment in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/qdt7w4/alec_baldwin_was_handed_a_loaded_weapon_by_an/hhopidz/): > "Live" is movie term to describe a gun that's been loaded with blanks and ready to be fired for filming. You don't typically confuse it with the layman term because a real live round would not be allowed anywhere on set to begin with. They are still investigating WTF could have happened, but I wouldn't assume from this term being thrown around that it means they were using actual ammo for filming.


tracygee

“Live rounds” on a movie set means a gun loaded with blanks, not actual bullets. People are misunderstanding what live rounds means in movies. It’s the usual term. A hot gun has live rounds — blanks that can be fired. A cold gun has nothing inside and (normally) has been worked on in some manner so it cannot physically be fired at all. No real bullets are *ever* used on a movie set. If there was an actual “real” bullet in the gun something absolutely criminal happened. Keeping in mind that blanks and detritus from blanks can (and have) injured and killed people on sets before. We’ll have to get more information to find out what the actual projectile was.


FairyRogue

As far as I know after Brandon Lee was shot, the union said no live ammo on set or location period.


DefinitelyNotAliens

It's a Western so a flag and empty cylinder slid back in, or a bolt/ lever action flagged out and confirmed empty. Then again, Hollywood is *supposed* to have empty guns that are entirely unable to fire at all ever. Maybe those function differently, at which point you check the gun is unable to function and anything which can fire has a single round loaded at that moment.


Possumcucumber

My husband is a movie director, has made multiple movies with guns inc genuine vintage guns. He said the protocol in our country is incredibly strict. To the point where it is super frustrating, particularly when you are trying to make the day on a lower budget. A “cold” revolver is taken by the armourer in front of relevant cast and crew and pointed at the ground and trigger is pulled 6 times before it could be handed to an actor. But you do it because the alternative is potentially killing someone. My son is an actor and has handled weapons including guns on set (as a child and young teen) and the protocols are so carefully adhered to, the armourers are so pedantic, that he genuinely couldn’t understand how this horrible accident could occur. Both my husband and son have worked on productions with a wide range of budgets and have worked in the US as well as our country yet they were shocked at what has been reported of this set. This was clearly a set and production which were being negligently and unsafely operated from the get go. And most likely willfully so with an intent to cut corners and preserve the fees/profits of producers at the expense of crew.


Hardlymd

This armorer is all of 24 yrs old, very inexperienced, and she got the job thru nepotism, as her dad was a famous armorer.


nmj95123

Yup. And she was so inexperienced she was [terrified of loading blanks](https://www.newsweek.com/head-armorer-alec-baldwin-movie-rust-was-nervous-about-experience-level-before-taking-job-1641915). > "I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like 'oh, I don't know anything about it,'" she said. However, she added that her veteran father, helped to train her.


blueberrybasil02

Oh, dear


THAIwanese

Oh wow… looks like her fear became reality… very unfortunate and quite possibly gonna end up with manslaughter charges…


spiderhead

As a non-union production worker, I’m shocked (1) that they would scab (2) the whole team walked off besides the DP and Steadicam op. There’s so much more to this story yet


ExclusiveOar

They already had 3 misfires before this, after actors were handed supposedly "cold" weapons. Members of the production team had complained about gun safety. They had employed a "head armourer" it was her second time on the job and sounds quite young to hold that title (early twenties) Edit: as this is picking up, worth noting that the article says misfire, but means negligent discharge. 3 times people pulled triggers expecting nothing to happen, but the gun went bang. On the fourth time someone died.


LUN4T1C-NL

Besides practising general gun safety rules, that would have prevented this: When your gun safety person is handing people weapons with live ammo, stating they are safe, you FIRE (no pun intended) this person, there are no second chances with deadly weapons. Back when I was in my countries army they kicked a guy out because he kept accidentally pointing his loaded gun at people instead of down range.


bepositiveinstead

Imagine being so bad at your job that you hand a known-to-misfire prop gun to Alec Baldwin. I have worked on some real low budget productions and never heard of or seen anything this negligent. That prop has to either be repaired and triple-checked, or eliminated and replaced. For fuck's sake I worked on a micro-budget guerilla film that handled weapon safety better than this.


BillsMafia607

>I worked on a micro-budget guerilla film that handled weapon safety better than this Every student film I ever worked on handled weapon safety better than this


[deleted]

[удалено]


MundanePresence

I work in a police station and we do not handle weapon safety better than that


chemicalgeekery

I worked at a gun range and can confirm that most cops should not be issued anything more lethal than a water pistol.


Jacob2040

It amazing the people that forget that a gun is always loaded. Especially when it's not. I've had it drilled into me not to point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy, but many people I see seem to forget that.


Wretschko

I was 17-18 years old in the late 80s. Went to a friend's house with a few other friends while his parents were out on vacation. We were goofing around drinking and smoking when the TV news reported about a home invasion and we jokingly asked the friend what he would do since he was all alone in the house if it had happened to him. He said, "Shee-it," and went into another room and then returned brandishing a 20-gauge shotgun. We all ooh'ed and aah'ed and asked if it was loaded. He firmly said it wasn't. One of my other friends then grabbed the shotgun and pointed it at me. I was already so close enough that I was able to grab the barrel and point it upwards and I was furious, "Man, you don't know if it's loaded, you never point it at any one unless yo---" \*BLAM!\* I'll never forget the vibration in my hand when I grasped that barrel when it went off. Then it was just absolute stunned silence followed by the tinkling of broken plexiglass and fluorescent bulb shards hitting the ground from the wooden 4'x8' ceiling light enclosure so popular back then in the 80s. I will never forget the look I exchanged with my friend at that moment as well as the conversation afterwards. It was basically repeatedly simultaneously me going, "Holy shit, you nearly killed me!" with him going, "Holy shit, I nearly killed you!" The weirdest thing I remember from that experience is that afterwards we were more concerned about the first friend getting in trouble for ruining his parents' ceiling light fixture, although I do recall bouts of me still going "Holy shit!" and "I can't believe you did that!" interspersed in those moments. Well, by Monday, he somehow managed to find replacement plexiglass ceiling panels and bulbs. His parents seemingly never found out what happened. However, I still like to think that when the fluorescents eventually failed in time, his dad would have pulled aside the plexiglass panels and see the buckshot pellets still embedded in their ceiling and go, "What the fuck?!"


Rockelyn

So glad that the cost of that lesson was a light and not a life! Thank you for sharing it. You really paint a picture with your storytelling, and more people need to understand how easy it really is to make this kind of deadly mistake.


TMA_01

I’ve worked on large productions and the AD has no business handing the prop to the actor. It’s props, and they check it before handing it. For this exact reason.


FLdancer00

When I first started working in TV and didn't understand the rules in relation to unions, I got yelled at for trying to empty a trashcan! Like really got a talking to. I'm not too proud to do anything on set that needs to be done, but after that I always ask a dept head before I touch anything.


eye_booger

Yeah! I was warned as an art department intern not to help carry anything or stuff like that cause it’s the unions job.


TMA_01

It’s insane, but that’s just how it is.


TheEpicPancake1

Agreed. The AD should always check it for sure, but it's the prop person/armorer that hands it to the actors. If the AD actually went over and picked up the gun from the prop cart and handed it to Baldwin like the article says, it's most definitely his fault.


neoKushan

> Imagine being so bad at your job that you hand a known-to-misfire prop gun to Alec Baldwin. I could be wrong, but I don't think the gun itself is faulty or "misfiring", but rather people have been handed guns that they were told were empty, then those guns were being fired (and decidedly not empty). The "misfire" isn't due to a technical fault, but the fault of whomever is claiming that the gun is empty when it's not. The movie set lingo is confusing matters slightly, a "prop gun" isn't a particular kind of gun, it's just a gun that's used as a prop - it could be a fake gun, a toy gun, a special gun designed to shoot special ammo, or a real gun loaded with blanks. A "live" gun just means the gun is loaded with _something_. A gun loaded with blanks is still "live", but the reports are suggesting that people were handed guns, told that they were cold (meaning _empty_) and then those guns were being fired. Your point still stands though - it's the kind of fuck up that should literally never, ever happen. It's not that difficult to check a gun to see if it's loaded but someone picked up a gun and somehow deduced that it was empty, then handed that gun to someone else and said "This gun is empty" (cold), the person who was handed the gun then pointed and shot the gun to find it was not empty. Not once, not twice, but at least 3 times and nobody seems to have done a damn thing about it. That fuck up happening once should have been enough to get someone fired, but 3 times? It's no wonder someone got killed. This was a colossal fuck up by _several_ different people.


sharrrper

>The "misfire" isn't due to a technical fault, but the fault of whomever is claiming that the gun is empty when it's not. Yeah I'm pretty sure this is what they meant. It's confusing because it's the wrong terminology. When you say a misfire from a gun it's supposed to indicate you pulled the trigger of a loaded weapon and it failed to fire. Based on context of the article though it sounds like when they say misfire here they mean someone firing a loaded gun unintentionally. The correct term for that would be "accidental discharge"


sicknisco

Imagine being on the same set as Alec Baldwin and you have to shuttle 50 miles away to a random hotel each day before and after work. These producers were definitely some cheap bastards


waka49

they actually cut the hotel budget for some workers. People on set have been *sleeping in their cars*


nil0013

Production was bitching about paying $10 more a night than the homeless being housed in the fleabag motel near the set. Ffs


Comprehensive-Fun47

Do you think this type of info would have come out had this accident not happened? It sounds like a total shit show, excluding the gun accident, and now I'm curious how common it is for a movie to operate like this.


Aware-Entertainer-14

More common than you think. It’s a culture built on fear. We have zero job security and the competition for your job is steep. The huge amount of work due to streaming has helped with some security but then there’s movies and tv like this. The crew are always the last to be given their worth and taken care of. This is why the threat of strike. Those at the top will push to the absolute limit. A camera crew walking? A cam crew totally loyal to a DP! Must have been bad


GDAWG13007

Independent films like this one? Kinda common. Just depends on who’s in charge. Some are more generous with their crew than others. Studio films? Absolutely not. They’ll obviously try to save a buck where they can, but not to that extent.


QuillofSnow

It was the production company not the producers, although the producers did hire the production company who knows if Alex Baldwin was actually doing any managing or if the title was purely for the potential for an award.


captain_ender

Copying my reply from other thread here because lots of people confused this could be the Prop Master or even the AD's fault, neither would be true. ------- >Can't imagine what that person is feeling right now. Whoever was in charge of gun safety on set fucked up big time The Armorer is who you're talking about, NOT the Prop Master that should be made clear; and yes the Armorer most likely fucked up massively. Similar thing happened with Brandon Lee's death, Armorer failed to safe check the amount of gunpowder in the blanks which lead to the actor's death. Prop Masters are in charge of the creative aesthetic and functionality of a set prop, but NOT the safety of it. While they may be trained in safety, it's not on them to ensure it. An Armorer's primary job is exactly that - the safely handling, loading, and storage of hazardous and deadly weapons. What's crazy here is it wasn't some random crew member like the article stated, but the DP who died and the director who was injured (assuming ricochet or 2nd unchecked round). **For clarity** often in med-high budget scripted films, the Director of Photography doesn't even operate the camera (Cam Op), and will sit in a area of reference monitors off set nearby colloquially called "the video village". So that means Mr Baldwin probably had no idea the rounds he shot towards off camera even hit anyone mid performance and would also explain why the director was injured as well. So unfortunate because actors have to put complete faith the deadly weapon they're holding is safe to maintain their performance... I can't imagine a violation of that trust. TL;DR: Armorer is hyper fucked. DP and Director typically work near each other which explains why both were hit. Really fucking unfortunate Alec Baldwin has to deal with this death on his hands that's [apparent] not his fault. Source: work in the industry (formerly camera dpt) E: formerly not formally


Amrokmfc

Article covers most of what you stated. >Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by Baldwin. >The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the New Mexico set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor. >Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her. >Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding. One round fired while removing it from the holster. It struck both of them. They weren't even filming the scene, it sounds like, but making sure they had the angle they wanted. Absolutely tragic.


_El-Ahrairah_

> The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder Getting shot in the shoulder in a movie is a token wound that never kills the star. I realized how distorted my view of reality was when my first reaction was surprise that she died from being shot there.


shadowofahelicopter

Previous reports said that she was shot in the stomach and the director was shot in the shoulder. If it was as said in this article that she was standing with the director crouched behind her, it makes far more sense she was shot in the stomach and exited hitting the crouched director in the shoulder. It’s possible the article just got it mixed up.


chemicalgeekery

Getting shot anywhere can kill from shock or blood loss, sometimes a lot faster than you'd think. A bullet to the shoulder can go through the subclavian artery and cause a person can bleed out quite quickly. Getting shot in the leg is another bad one. Pierce the Femoral artery and...well, just watch that scene from Black Hawk Down where the guy gets hit in the leg and the medic can't save him.


Travelgrrl

Also being out in the middle of nowhere on a ranch probably didn't help matters, in terms of getting timely medical help.


Iregretbeinghereokay

The singer Selena died from getting hit in the shoulder. It hit a major artery and she bled out before help could arrive


[deleted]

I read that she was hit in the stomach. Regardless, none of it makes sense; no blank in the world can shoot that far. There was something in one of the cylinders, for sure.


videopro10

It sounds like "something" was just a real bullet tbh. I have a very hard time seeing some debris or foreign object jammed in the barrel carrying enough energy in a straight line to go through two people.


Alwaysunder_thegun

The fuck ups here are numerous. 1 . There should be safety checks every time you hand an actor a gun. Flashlight down the barrel to show its clear. Edit: to be clear. I mean the gun is pointed to the ground and chamber open . You flash light "up" the barrel. That way you can tell there is no blockage. 2. The 1st Ad shouldn't be the go between. 3. Nothing should ever be fired towards any actor or crew member at any time. Even a cameraman should have Plexi if they're firing blanks. 4 . Village should never be in the line of fire. 6. Real bullets should never ever be used. Blanks sure. But with the same precautions you would take with a fully loaded weapon.


captain_ender

>2. The 1st Ad shouldn't be the go between. This is definitely the biggest flag. Really underscores a general lack of organization on set that can lead to accidents, and in this case death. Still absolutely not her (AD) fault but is indicative of a non safe set.


Peralton

I'd say it's also the 1st ADs fault. Getting a gun off a cart and handing it to the actor and calling out "Cold Gun" when they haven't checked it at all is negligent behavior. You call the armorer to do that. Both the Ad and Armorer are in deep legal trouble.


stanthemanchan

The armorer left a loaded firearm on a cart outside unattended where someone could grab it. That seems pretty bad, too. (Not so) fun fact: the 1st AD's IMDB credits include 2000's "The Crow: Salvation", the sequel to an obscure film from 1993 that people seem to be talking about today for some reason. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002577/


TheEpicPancake1

I agree, but every single person on set knows not to even touch weapons, let alone pick them up. At least every one I've ever worked with on set. The 1st AD going over and picking up a gun from the prop cart is a massive fuck up, if that's what happened.


p_hennessey

This is a monumental fuckup.


filthysize

Two movie industry terms that crew and union people being interviewed are using that keep confusing people when they get reported on: 1. "Prop gun" is a gun that is used as a prop. It can be a fake toy gun, a modified gun, or a regular gun. The term "prop gun" doesn't distinguish between them. 2. "Live" is movie term to describe a gun that's been loaded with blanks and ready to be fired for filming. You don't typically confuse it with the layman term because a real live round would not be allowed anywhere on set to begin with. They are still investigating WTF could have happened, but I wouldn't assume from this term being thrown around that it means they were using actual ammo for filming.


Paige_4o4

> a real live round would not be allowed anywhere on set to begin with. That’s what’s so confusing about this, that not everyone seems to understand. A real round of ammunition has no place on a movie set. They either use dummy rounds with no powder/primer or a blanks that have no projectile.


drunkjazzfan

The use of two together can create an, in effect, live round, that's what happened to Brandon Lee


Zahn1138

In that case the dummy rounds had primers, so the dummy round projected the bullet into the barrel and somehow the prop guy didn’t notice that one cartridge was missing a slug


Confirmative

Wait, so a slug was lodged in the barrel and then later a blank sent it down range?


FrostedPixel47

At first, the crew improvised a dummy round made out of a live bullet with its propellant powder removed or reduced but its primer was still left in to create the smoking effect, so when fired, the primer charge was still powerful enough to dislodge the bullet from the casing, but not powerful enough to discharge it from the barrel so it got stuck in there. Later they used the same gun that they didn't bother to re-check, loaded it with a blank, and when fired, the previously stuck bullet got discharged from the barrel the same way a normal bullet would've fired. Edit: This comment is about Brandon Lee's death, not about ~~Alec Baldwin's incident~~ Halyna Hutchin's.


Confirmative

Honestly that's insane. I'm not a "gun guy" but I have guns, and I grew up around guns. That's not "improvised", it's insane. I don't know the whole story, but I hope they saw jail time. Even if I decided to do some Oakie bullshit like that, I'd *still* always clear the barrel after. This is so unbelievable to me that it sounds like homicide.


FrostedPixel47

Apparently according to some sources, the gun master was sent home earlier that day and when the scene was to be shot, the responsibility was given to a prop assistant who was unaware of such danger.


jinxykatte

There is a youtube channel called joblo videos who did a video about the crow. They cover it really well. The director chose to shoot in louisianna due to being able to skirt Hollywood regulations. It was fucking criminal the corners they cut.


SarkHD

“Let’s send home the guy we specifically hired for this exact purpose and let a noobie deal with it instead”


darkdex52

"it'll save us at least 200$ because we won't need to pay the gun dude"


Zahn1138

Precisely.


Dusk_Elk

Because of the Crow, prop guns are not supposed to have a mix of ammunition types, to prevent this from happening. So the idea of having even live ammunition is so mind boggling.


Jaevric

But the round was described as going through one person and hitting another with sufficient velocity to cause injury. That doesn't sound like a projectile from a blank to me.


Oromis107

Predominant theory in the last thread was that there were dummy rounds for the sake of barrel-facing camera angles, since it was a revolver and the rounds are exposed. ~~Allegedly one got stuck in the chamber and was not properly inspected nor dislodged before swapping for blanks. I guess a dummy round + a blank is basically all the components of a real bullet anyway.~~ I can't find that theory or any source so I'll leave it at that.


SetYourGoals

This is exactly what happened to Brandon Lee on The Crow, so you'd think this exact scenario would be checked for...


QuarantineTitans

This phenomenon happens enough times that they have a term for it. It's called a [Squib Load.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_load) You'd think that if it's common enough to warrant a term for it, it's common enough to mandate steps in preventing it. Edit: Oof, poor wording on my part. To clarify, I know there are many *many* steps in preventing these accidents. I'm inferring that this accident happened because somebody on set was cutting corners, not because we need more mandates.


Stereotype_Apostate

Seems if you just used two guns, one that *only ever* has blanks in it and another that *literally has dummy rounds glued in place* so there's no way to mistake one for the other, you'd avoid this problem.


oswaldcopperpot

Massive multiple levels of fuckup is what happened.


EmmitSan

In a different thread, someone wrote that the armorer took the gun off the set and fired it with real ammunition, and then forgot to clear it when returning it to the set.


Mylaptopisburningme

Yea had to come down this far to find that mentioned. Person souned legit and seemed to know the crew had walked off the set before it was published. So if the camera crew walked off set, they would have had downtime waiting for the scabs to arrive. I wonder if it is this Gutierrez-Reed person that went shooting between takes with real ammo. In this article from a podcast she said she didn't know if she was ready with her first movie. This was only her second. Even more interesting the AD was also assistant AD for The Crow 2. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10121545/Production-crew-walked-Alec-Baldwin-movie-set-hours-tragic-shooting.html Just from how it is sounding so far, someones gonna get charged and it's not going to be Baldwin.


Kimantha_Allerdings

Let’s see, the crew had walked off due to their safety concerns not being met, rather than addressing those safety concerns the director had them replaced, and there had been an incident with unsafe firearms a couple of days beforehand. Definitely sounds to me like the director is open to being sued, at the very least. Especially coming as it does at a time when on-set safety, and cast and crew working hours and travel times and how that affects safety are already in the headlines with unions having spent the last few weeks threatening to strike.


mjtwelve

Being sued is the least of his worries. The police are most definitely treating this as a criminal investigation, per this particular story being sourced to the search warrant documents. The police swept in and treated this like a crime scene, and the OSHA types are all over it too, I should think. If the only thing that happens is multimillion dollar lawsuits against everyone involved, they'll be lucky.


Kimantha_Allerdings

There being a criminal investigation (which I’m sure is standard every time anybody gets shot under any circumstances) doesn’t imply that there will be charges, or even convictions. There may well be, but I don’t think we know enough about the facts yet to draw any conclusions. I would imagine most people don’t know enough about the relevant laws, either. It’s also worth bearing in mind that nobody was charged in Brandon Lee’s death, despite that being a clear case of negligence, and nobody was convicted in the deaths of Vic Morrow, Myca Dinh Le, and Renee Shin-Yi Chen. Didn’t even affect their careers a great deal. There have been a spate of stories recently of stunt people being hurt on set due to the productions cutting corners (Olivia Jackson having her face ripped off, amongst other life-changing injuries, a few years ago being a particularly horrific example), and they often even find it difficult to win a lawsuit, let alone anybody being charged or convicted of anything. Sometimes something happens, but it’s often not as much as it seems it should be. Actor Taylor Hickson now has a noticeable scar on her face due to an on-set injury caused by negligence and recklessness on the part of the director, who flat-out lied to her repeatedly about the safety of the scene she was filming when she expressed doubts. She needed 70 stitches in her face, and the incident could have killed her. The production company was fined $40,000, and only because the production was in Canada rather than the US. So I’m not going to make any prediction about criminal charges being brought, but I *will* say that I’m not going to hold my breath that it will happen.


-ACHTUNG-

Jeez just looked these cases up. Jackson didn't even get reimbursed for her medical bills as the production didn't have sufficient insurance and the director lied to her previously saying they did. It's all pretty appalling.


Now_Wait-4-Last_Year

One person was killed on the set of Resident Evil 6: The Final Chapter and the woman who was going to be Gal Gadot's stunt double for Wonder Woman lost an arm during the making of that movie.


BootDisc

Yeah, that rumor gets close to real sources. That and a large part of the crew walked cause of safety combined with IATSE looming strike.


77Columbus

This is a description of prop firearms from a company that provides prop firearms to productions in NYC. As you can see calling them “prop guns” is a huge problem where people don’t understand what they are dealing with. “Prop firearms generally fall into 3 categories. Blank firing guns are real guns in every sense of the word, as defined by the government, and are regulated and handled accordingly. As the name implies, they fire blanks - bullet shell casing with no projectile. Replica guns are props made with metal, resin, plastic, and/or rubber. Depending on the needs of the production and the scene, they can be made to look identical to real guns. They do not fire, have no firing pin, and are not subject to the same strict regulation and safety requirements as blank guns. Non-guns are similar to replica guns but have the added feature of an electronically-triggered muzzle flash to simulate a weapon firing.”


Effehezepe

The main issue in regards to confusion around the term "prop gun" is that in layman terms something being called a prop usually implies that it's a phony, while in film a prop is anything that could theoretically be moved and interacted with by the actors, so by that nomenclature a real gun can very much be a prop gun.


2hats4bats

Blanks for prop guns also usually have *more* gun powder than a normal bullet because they’re trying to produce a flash big and bright enough to be seen on camera.


Cyno01

And enough force to cycle the action of the gun without the compression provided by a bullet in the barrel.


superfastandlame

A bullet went through one person and into another. That’s not going to be shrapnel from a blank. Someone put a real round in that gun.


2hats4bats

That certainly sounds like what happened and is completely mind-boggling that this is even a possibility. Blanks can still hurt you, hence the safety precautions, but how an actual bullet projectile gets within a mile of set is astounding.


PrettyDisassociated

Some union members walked off set that morning. I’m wondering if the gun handler left with them, and then shit fell apart from there Edit: alternatively, it could be that they hired the 24 year old daughter of a legendary gun handler https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set?_amp=true


2hats4bats

The report I read said the prop master and armorer were not Local 44, which is very, very bad. If you’re union crew and you hear that you walk off set immediately.


PrettyDisassociated

Oh. The armorer was a 24 year old daughter of a famous armorer, who had only one prior film under her belt. “The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.” LA times


Pill_Billy

The local union team left the set hours before due to working conditions. Where was the acting prop/armory master who oversees the weapons? If the weapon was malfunctioning leading up to the accident why would they continue to use it? EDIT: it’s starting to look like Hannah Reed was incompetent at her job. Also, the weapon on Rust was used for off set fun. not to mention she once gave an eleven y/o a unverified gun.


shbooms

according to [this report](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set), 3 accidental discharges occurred already that day. the one that killed this woman was the 4th. the union crew members ended up walking off the set in protest due to this (among other poor working conditions) just a acouple hours before the fatal shooting: > Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges. > Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. > “There should have been an investigation into what happened,” the crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.” > A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.


rawling

> 3 accidental discharges occurred already *that day* ... > Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds *Saturday* after being told that the gun was “cold”


Buy-high-sell-never

If a gun went off at my work I’m walking out and never coming back


HavanaHologram

People in the film industry work hard as hell and put up with a lot of shit, if they are walking off set then whoever is running the show is royally fucking up.


gnrc

Can confirm. I work in TV and conditions are never great and sometimes downright atrocious. But for a crew to walk off set is a BIG DEAL.


Pale-Wind282

Fuck man that would scar me for the rest of my life


Erchamion_1

Word. Like, fuck, what must be going through his head right now?


DrSheldonLCooperPhD

Overwhelming guilt. Guilt fucks you up.


formallyhuman

I've had dreams over the years where I accidently kill someone and the relief on waking up to find out it was just a dream is crazy. So, yeah, I agree.


theforceisfemale

As someone who works in the film industry: what was the AD doing handling props?????????


Throw_Away_Your_Boat

My IATSE friends are circulating screenshots of alleged text messages from the crew. According to them, several crew members walked off that morning to protest not having been paid for weeks. Sounds like it was a shitty production to begin with and things got worse since news of the possible strike broke. My guess is the AD was either an inexperienced last minute replacement, or just insanely overworked and filling multiple roles because half their crew just left. EDIT: looked up the AD’s credits and he seems pretty experienced, so it must be the latter. Or he’s just an idiot.


anneoftheisland

[Consequence](https://consequence.net/2021/10/alec-baldwin-shooting-crew-walked-off-set/2/) published an article about him. Mostly anonymous sources, but they claim he was ... not a stickler for protocol, I'll put it that way.


rodentius

Holy shit. I work in the film industry and I've worked with this guy. It was a Civil War movie, and he was fired because he gave an actor a musket that was supposed to be empty but had a blank in it. Thank god it wasn't aimed at anybody, but it still nearly deafened our boom operator who had his mic right next to the gun and wasn't expecting it to actually fire. This guy is a huge piece of shit and now a person is dead because of him. So unbelievably tragic.


xchaibard

So he's done this before. You should definitely get in contact with the investigators and give them everything you know. This shows a pattern of neglegence.


rodentius

Yeah, I reached out to the Santa Fe Sherriff's office with the story.


twopiesfoureyes

Yes, please do this and spare anyone who could potentially work with him in the future a life-threatening situation. Love, your Greensperson ❤️


Chop_til_you_Drop

Does a prop musket work differently than a rel musket? I'm guessing it does, because it would be hard to not know that you poured powder down the barrel, inserted wadding, then tamped it all down with a ramrod, and put a primer on the nipple under the hammer.


gwaenchanh-a

I doubt they'd bother using a real musket for shooting, they're way too unreliable and finnicky. Probably a musket-shaped regular gun


ubermeisters

The Santa Fe county sheriff's office criminal investigation division can be reached at 505 986-2490 https://www.santafecountynm.gov/sheriff/sheriffs_divisions


Faithless195

A bit off topic, but...not paid for WEEKS!? In most countries, people aren't showing up for work if they haven't been paid for two days passed their payday. Weeks is a long fucking time to not get paid for work.


-Croustibat-

Late payment is even considered as a breach of contract in my country. If it happens you can legally ask for a financial compensation.


farnsworthianmold

> Or he’s just an idiot. I can be really absent minded sometimes, so I’m someone who will never ever touch a gun for this very reason…


suck-me-beautiful

Points for self awareness friend!


rexatron_games

Especially guns? I haven’t worked on many sets, but I was under the impression that obviously fake guns (like blue or orange solid plastic) get used up until you’re ready to shoot. Then the armorer hands the prop gun to the actor, the scene is filmed, and the armorer takes it immediately back. This was with realistic looking guns with no live ammo. The only other person who might be in the process is the stunt coordinator, if something extra needs to be demonstrated. Never worked with live guns, but the armorer had shields for those shots, to protect anyone downrange.


Xtianpro

Yeah that sounds correct. Really, if a gun is on set the armourer should insist, regardless of what anyone else says, on being the only other person to touch the gun. Gun safety is their responsibility on set


lookatmahfeet

Yeah why wasn't there a props person handing him the gun after checking it rather than an AD handing him the gun telling him it was safe. And the AD never checked so who told the AD it was safe? So many qs


36monsters

I am a Director's Guild of America 2nd AD. There is NO fucking way that gun should have EVER been handed by an AD to the actor. It should have gone from the props master to the armorer to the stunt coordinator and been checked EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. The AD should have also held a standard safety meeting with the entire crew prior to that scene...again with the team physically examining the gun and verifying it is safe to use on set. THEN it should have been handed to the actor just before the cameras rolled. Both the DP and the Director should have been behind safety shields and the gun should never have been pointed directly at ANYONE. Finally, in this day and age...everything could have been done in post production from muzzle flashes to squib bursts meaning there is NO REASON there should have been a gun capable of firing a shot on set in the very first place. So tragic every step of the way.


listyraesder

This was the fourth misfire on that film, including two the previous week - one in identical circumstances when a stunt performer discharged a gun they had been told was cold. This is why the entire camera dept except the DP and Steadicam op quit the night before the fatal incident.


eza50

Holy shit. If it really played out like that, a lot of people are about to get fucked, and rightfully so.


listyraesder

LA Times confirmed it.


eza50

That is fucking *wild*. So sad.


Filmcricket

A bunch of the production staff was striking, demanding safer work conditions. The company fired them and hired “scabs”. This shooting happened a day later. The prop master is responsible but so is the producer. This really isn’t as simple as it’s being made out to be regarding Baldwin’s responsibility. He is the producer, obviously.


Its_a_Trap-

Baldwin is one of the producers. There were quite a few producers for the movie


Lurkay1

That’s one of the reasons they quit. Another is the crew we’re sleeping in their cars because the nearest hotel they were set up in was 50 miles away


Slight-Pound

The shooting happened six hours after the union guys left, according to the article at the top of this thread. Wasn’t long at all.


Buzzard

> This was the fourth misfire on that film That's insane. The amount of irresponsibility on display is unbelievable.


target_locked

Finally, somebody who understands safety is a total team responsibility and culture and the blame falls on everybody involved, not just the actor or the armorer.


The_Repeated_Meme

IMO the responsibility shouldn’t fall on the actor but **it should be the responsibility of every hand the gun passes through before it makes it to them.** Of course the actor should treat the gun with seriousness (unlike some actors I’ve heard).


Bendy_Paperclip

Brandon Lee's death should have guaranteed this would never happen again. Yet it did. This just sucks for every person involved.


getreal2021

There are no guarantees. Given the prevalence of prop guns in movie production this the near 30 year gap between accidents is probably statistically pretty damn good. Not that it makes this any less tragic.


Mycolilly

I was typing this for a post on the RUST incident. Here's the latest update. By all accounts, this was a total nightmare set. IATSE Local 44 members working Props, Sets and SFX had just walked off set to protest safety conditions. They had nonunion local workers working on the production at the time of the shooting. There had been two other live-fire incidents and the union had walked off and had been replaced by locals when this happened. The walk-off occurred over safety concerns when this happened. From everything that's coming out this shoot seems like a nightmare. They booked the crew's hotels 50 miles away from the set in Albuquerque instead of the much closer Santa Fe. This added close to three hours of daily drive time for a crew that was already working 17 hour days. It sounds like this set was a timebomb of safety issues and negligence. Most actors don't have the training to inspect a weapon. You trust your props, and you trust your pyro on set. You watch the prop guy inspect the prop right in front of you. and then he hands it to you with a thumbs up. People aren't just walking around with loaded props. He was just handed the inspected prop when the incident occurred. According to the crew, there is no reason that a "live" round (live can also refer to a blank) should have around or near the shooting location. I think this qualifies as a nightmare


[deleted]

[удалено]


ibelieveiamredditing

I used to work as a PA for a company that cut every corner possible. They always paid the absolute lowest they could and scraped by with as little crew as possible. One time we did a shoot way out in the desert at a middle school on a military base. It was some "prank your school" kind of thing to promote a big name kids' movie. So they had the whole crew come from LA in two vans. But why hire two transpo drivers when you have two PAs? So they worked me and another PA to death for two 12+ hour days. They did at least give us shared hotel rooms for a night, but when the time came to drive back, I was absolutely exhausted. I remember a cold sore had broken out on my face from the stress. And I needed to drive a van full of crew for three hours back to LA. The desert winds were pushing the van left and right and I could barely stay awake, and there was some asshole grip in the car complaining that I wasn't driving faster. And of course if I'd gotten a speeding ticket, production wouldn't have covered it, and I would've basically paid to work that day. I'm still so angry I was put in that dangerous situation and it wasn't even the only time I was put at risk for that company's bottom line. FUCK unsafe sets.


Finnn_the_human

I'll never understand why people want to work in film when I hear horror stories like this. I was in the military, and even *they* wouldn't have let that happen under most circumstances.


LiteraryBoner

Just FYI, I've been told several times in the last 24 hours that live rounds in the entertainment industry does *not* mean actual ammunition. It can still mean blanks, just a general term for anything that goes bang when the trigger is pulled.


howmuchbanana

Also "prop gun" is a confusing term. If an actor is handling an object, it's a prop. So if they're handling a gun, it's a prop gun. But outside of movie sets "prop gun" has come to mean "fake gun", basically meaning "toy gun that doesn't shoot/fire anything but looks real". (It's fine that this term exists outside of movies, it just makes this conversation difficult) Most guns on movie sets are not able to shoot bullets out of them. They have been modified so ammunition won't fire, but they can still discharge blanks. Blanks can still be lethal if not handled properly, because, after all, there's a very powerful explosion happening *inside* an object. Regardless if they're able to shoot bullets or blanks (or nothing at all), all guns on set are technically "prop guns". I've seen people complain that "prop gun" is misleading term for what Baldwin was handling. Unfortunately, it is the correct term *on movie sets*. I think journalists should help make the distinction in their reporting, but until that's happening, I gotta keep writing messages like this. SOURCE: was a propmaster for many years


Wanderer-Wonderer

Would the prop master (or set armorer?) be legally responsible for the gun’s safety for the scene? Edit: [Found a detailed answer to my question](https://www.reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/qdf214/alec_baldwin_crying_after_he_discharged_a_prop/hhmatj1)


thehuntinggearguy

I'd imagine someone needs to carry liability insurance.


Drejlord

There is a disconnect, having made amature movies we used "prop guns" which were airsoft guns and we added smoke and fire digitally in post-production. But in professional hollywood production they use real-guns as props. So for the layman, its easy to confuse because fake guns is a concept everyone is familiar with, but real-guns with prop-bullets that sometimes kill people, is confusing as fuck. Cause it just sounds like a real gun with real bullets that really kill real people.


oatmealndeath

Yeah this! Plus there’s also things like soft foam and rubber doubles and realistic but completely inert replicas that a lot of laypeople are aware of. A lot people might hear ‘prop gun’ and think of that category of thing.


Faithless195

I appreciate the sticky, legit was under the impression "live round" meant real actual bullet.


Mela05

And the assistant director should not have grabbed a gun to give to Baldwin. Only the on set Armourer is supposed to handle the weapon and hand it to the actor. Sounds like negligence on the part of the assistant director and the armourer both.as to why there was a gun loaded with live rounds that’s the fishy part. I have no idea.


zivlynsbane

This is gonna be a mess for a year or 2.


returningvideotapes1

I thought that they had a specific firearms guy on all sets, standard protocol, to ensure this shit doesn’t happen. And that guys only job was firearms stuff. Nothing else so he couldn’t get confused


Infernalism

Apparently, the union-based crew walked off due to safety concerns and they were using a scab-based crew instead. Edit: For those insisting that scabs weren't used that day... >As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said. From the LA Times article linked below.


anneoftheisland

Note that, at least according to the articles written so far, it was only about 6 or 7 union cameramen who walked off set and were replaced with non-union crew. There's been no indication that the rest of the crew walked out or were replaced. (It's possible they did; no one has reported that so far though.)


listyraesder

IATSE say none of the props or gun crew were union. (LA Times)


DangerousDavies2020

I’ve just heard the 911 call on TMZ it’s pure WTF. Caller swears in frustration and wasn’t with the victim’s to report the state of their injuries.


paranormal_fuckboi

Prop master or armorer should have give a crew saftey demo before handing it directly to the actor, NOT THE AD. This shows me they hired inexperienced crew to save a few bucks. Saftey demos happen whenever a gun is used. Doesn't matter if it was used in the last scene, it should be shown everytime. Also, a gun should never be pointed at someone, even in the scene. Always just to their left or right. Now if this gun was known to fire off randomly (someone said this earlier) it should have never been on set This is cutting corners for money sake. Finding another gun to match would have cost money. Hiring experienced crew would have cost more money. This is productions fault just as much as the prop master and amorers fault. When will they learn that cutting safety corners to save money is never exceptable.


Stonewalled89

>Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use >The AD did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds If it’s the same person then they'll likely be facing criminal charges. What's an assistant director doing dealing with guns anyway? Shouldn't there be an expert who's qualified to deal with firearms handling it?


2hats4bats

The 1st AD is in charge of safety on a movie set. It’s their job to work directly with the armorer (gun safety coordinator) to ensure guns are handled and loaded safely. Edit: an AD handing a prop gun to an actor is odd. When a blank is being used it’s usually the armorer that loads it in front of the actor and fires it safely to show them what to expect.


WaywardWriter

Crew are coming out saying that the set was an unsafe working environment, that guns had misfired multiple times, and that many people felt scared to do their jobs. Before we drop all blame on the AD, it’s worth remembering that the producers were already making people feel so unsafe that the camera crew had literally walked off set earlier on - all to cut corners and save cash.


2hats4bats

It’s definitely sounding like a bad production


DaikaijuSokogeki2001

I've only been an AD for a few short films and music videos. But every time I've been on a set with a gun, obviously fake or not, I always make it a point that the only people allowed to handle it are the actor, the armorer, and VERY rarely the director (and supervised). The AD, UPM, and the armorer all fucked up big time here.


2hats4bats

I just read that “cold gun” was shouted by crew. I don’t know how that happens.


DaikaijuSokogeki2001

They cut corners and it looks like the AD just got negligent. Safety be damned, they had to make the day. Now the DP is dead, the director is injured, the lead actor is scarred for life, and the entire crew is out of a job because this film is absolutely getting shut down permanently. It just boggles my fucking mind too.


stanthemanchan

Not just the AD, but the armorer left a loaded gun unattended on a cart outside where the scene was being filmed. Pretty sure that's a big no-no.


Shwingbatta

Seriously holy shit. I can’t believe this happened. I worked on a film set once and they took firearm safety so seriously. Every time a prop gun was brought on set it was called out and echoed by other crew members so everyone was aware there was a gun on set. Then the gun was checked, double checked and triple checked and each time they called it out and again it was echoed. I think there might have even been an actual fire arms safety person who did the final check and handed the gun to the actor. This is all stuff I thought was instituted after brand lee’s death.


amedeemarko

Wait...live blanks or live rounds? And wtf is an ad doing handling a gun on set? I thought productions had a gun guy doing nothing but whenever a gun was on set?


Chrisgpresents

Question… Does “live round” mean a projectile, as in a 9mm bullet? Or does “live round” mean a non lethal round that we call a blank. If I’m confused, others might be too


spazturtle

Live just means that it has a primer and powder in it and it produces an explosion when you pull the trigger, blank rounds are a type of live round. Rounds that contain a normal projectile are called 'ball'. Here are several different types of 5.56mm ammo for example: Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball - Normal ammo used for shooting things Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer - Ammo that fires a tracer round Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Dummy - Completely empty casing that is used for loading and unloading drills Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Blank - Ammo that contains no projectile Of these the 'Dummy' round is the only one which isn't live. Older dummy rounds where just ball rounds with the primer and powder removed (or sometimes just the powder) but these days they are a single piece of metal designed to look like a ball round. The older types had a risk of causing a squib load where the projectile came out and got stuck in the barrel and then if a blank round was loaded it would then fire the projectile that was stuck in the barrel, that is how Brandon Lee was killed.


[deleted]

I hope they are able to wrap up this investigation quickly and explain just what happened because it is driving me crazy trying to understand how this might have played out.


ADogNamedIndiana

If the descriptions of events are accurate, that an AD grabbed the gun off the armorer's cart and handed it to Baldwin announcing "cold weapon", that's like 4 breaches of protocol right there. Only the armorer or prop man should be handling that weapon, not the AD. No one should be grabbing anything off the armorer's cart other than the armorer. Whomever picked the weapon up should have checked the chamber to confirm it was empty, and then shown the empty chamber to Baldwin when handing him the weapon. That's what's *supposed* to happen. The repeated instances of "accidental" discharges make me wonder if the weapon itself wasn't faulty. Seems like the list of failures on the part of production is a long one.


BFWinner

Why on earth don’t they make fake replica guns that can’t use real bullets? That shit is insane to me.