How do you think future electric motorcycles will look like ?
By - namae0
Probably won't see much fundamental change for decades. The frame still has to house a motor and batteries in place of the engine, so that won't change much. Suspension is irrelevant to the mode of power, so that won't change. Maybe we'll get more frunks for helmet storage.
Will definitely have more frunks.
Source: mine has one.
Maybe. One big difference to consider is that conceptually the motor could be much smaller and have much more freedom to be placed elsewhere. For example there was a concept I saw where the motor was actually around the rear axle. Even if motor placement is still somewhat more traditional and uses shaft or chain drive, it could be placed much closer to the rear wheel. This would mean the front of the bike would not have to house the bulk of the weight and could drastically change the front ends look.
Batteries could be placed very low on the frame, for example a tesla is basically a skateboard with a bunch of batteries on the top deck, a motor at one or either end, and then all the bodywork on top of that. Motorcycle could endup having much lower centers of gravity, much less “stuff” between the rider and the bottom of the bike shrinking it. I wonder if something like a full prone position might be optimal for a sports bike.
I agree it wouldnt happen immediately, but I do think even in the short term theres much more design freedom, i dont think the battery/motor would necessarily go where the engine goes now.
Hub motors are absolutely garbage and there's a very good reason only low power, small wheeled e-bikes use them. Hub motors drastically increase unsprung weight and completely ruin handling.
Full size electrics place the battery more or less where the engine would be and the motor directly behind it.
[My bike as an example](https://i.imgur.com/kszld8u.jpg)
The battery is that grey block and the motor is the circular object behind it.
The same has been found with high performance cars; they place the battery where the midengine would be located because it's already the ideal location for a large mass.
My point was that theres no reason that HAS to be the layout with electric, engineers have much more design freedom should they choose to use it. Batteries can be any shape they like, for example. Additionally motors can be much smaller and thus could then fit more places, they might not need a shiftable gearbox (tesla doesnt), etc.
And my point is that it does; we've long figured out where the weight distribution has to go for a well balanced motorcycle.
Changing what the weight is doesn't change where it needs to go.
It sounds like your argument is that because your e-motorcycle (and many like it) place the battery and motor where the engine used to be, that implies that's the best design. This is a fallacy IMO.
IMO the reason many electric motorcycles like the one you linked look like internal combustion motorcycles is because first and most important, it's cheaper not to redesign the whole bike when you change the drivetrain - *especially* for startup companies. If this is true it will start to change once you see mainstream brands put out more electric motorcycles since they can afford to redesign from the ground up. Second, marketing. They are trying to market them to people who are accustomed to a particular look and feel.
If you ask electric motorcycle designers then changing the weight can absolutely change where it needs to go. For example, for aerodynamics apparently you can put a huge hole in the center of the bike where the engine should be and then break electric speed records with it, why not?[https://www.engadget.com/electric-motorcycle-land-speed-record-100503362.html](https://www.engadget.com/electric-motorcycle-land-speed-record-100503362.html)
There's many examples of electric bikes with very nontraditional looks, but many of them are just for the wow factor of looking "futuristic". However I think the one above is a more practical example - the radical design actually serves a very important aerodynamic purpose that was previously not feasible with the restraints of internal combustion engines. This is one tiny example, there are many other ICE restraints that electric will remedy (and bring with it it's own host of design concerns).
edit: another small point on that motorcycle I just noticed, it has a front motor so it can utilize regenerative braking. Regenerative braking would be huge on a motorcycle and that might imply more front motors, once again radically changing designs.
And would you look at that, the battery and motor weight distribution is exactly where I said it would be, with the exception of the front motor.
And the only reason it has one of those is because it's degisned for a land speed record in a straight line, so it's completely unrepresentative of an actual street motorcycle that needs to turn.
You thought you had a gotcha but all you did was prove my point.
And your grasp of how regenerative braking works is so weak it wrecks any credibility you had when it comes to EVs. You literally couldn't have gotten it more wrong; motor placement is not a factor in regenerative braking as the braking occurs _within the motor_.
My bike has regenerative braking yet does not have a front motor. It's been a thing since the inception of modern electric motorcycles; every brand has it.
The motor and battery are low in the bike frame, and stretch from front to back where I said it would be. Where the engine would be is a giant hole in the frame. With that hole in the frame youd have no spot for any cylinder heads or anything like it a conventional engine would not fit on that bike. Your argument was that the weight distribution is the same but obviously the center of gravity is much lower and more more towards the center. “Weight distribution” must obviously account for center of gravity otherwise what are we even talking about. Also consider the repositioning of the weifht from the fuel tank from thw top of the bike to now being a battwry at the bottom.
Its your grasp of braking that is weak not my grasp of motors. Tell me, how much of a motorcycles braking can be done using the rear wheel? The motor must be connected to the front tire if you want more than 20% of your braking to be performed regeneratively otherwise youre taking a huge hit in efficiency. Your bike is poorly designed for regenerative braking because of its traditional layout.
A hayabusa is also built for top speed and cant turn yet that doesnt stop people riding them on the street. But it was only an example.
I'm not going to continue with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
Have a nice day.
Hot swappable battery packs would be great.
I see them in my nightmares.
I get the shifting stuff, but no oil changes is kind of a nice trade off... give it 10 years.
I think the bike will still need cooling for the batteries. Keeping the batteries cool(but not too cold) will be essential for longevity. I’m thinking batteries connected all the way from the fuel tank down to the ground in the engine area, and everywhere where there’s batteries there will be a flat fairing covering it. Maybe a flat one pieces fairing from top to bottom. No vents on the side, just vents in the front, and the back, for cool airflow. Batteries are really heavy, so they are going to want to keep the center of gravity in the correct spot as best they can. I’m thinking all the larger touring electric motorcycles will need self balancing hardware and software. Heavy bike means less control, and it will be very heavy, cause the idea is to go a long way on a single charge. Bigger suspension components. I think everything will get bigger.
> I’m thinking all the larger touring electric motorcycles will need self balancing hardware and software.
This is untrue for the behemoth motorcycles that already exist so I'm not sure why you think EVs will need it.
My EV is 500lbs and has range on par with existing bikes already; it's recharge time that is the issue, not the capacity.
How do you figure? I mean, certainly some bikes have tiny peanut tanks but most bikes will get you a good 150-200 miles of range, and that's not city, that's legit highway mileage at 80+ mph. Your bike is still probably right around half of that.
Yup, I sit around 240 miles of range with an average speed of around 65-70 and I've only got a 5.3 gallon tank. When I'm not going crazy of course. This is a combination of 75+ and 50-60 roads though. Half that averaging the same speeds is being optimistic without hypermiling. I think the SR/S is roughly advertised as 100 miles at 70mph
I was just speculating, I thought that to get around the 200-300 miles per charge range that it would take a lot more batteries. With more batteries, I thought more weight, with more weight, I thought less control. Battery tech has come a long way. I looked up your bike, it looks very nice! But yes, that charge time is what’s stopping it. I’m sure in 10-20 years, battery tech will advance far enough that we will have faster charging batteries
Yeah batteries aren't quite there yet but they're better than a lot of people think they are.
We're at the weird transitional phase where the tech is _almost_ ready for mass adoption but not quite. I'm just an EV enthusiast and love the feel of electric motors so the drawbacks weren't a concern for me.
I agree and any moment now a firm that let's the industry do the hard work will turn up an announce the new bike in a flurry of excitement and that name will become the new name for EV bikes. Steve Jobs was an expert at this.
[Already been done](http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/akira-image.jpg)
With that huge rake, good luck with the steering.
How'd they know how obese Americans would get!? Look at that ass pad width.
I think Sonder's Metacycle is a good example of what future bikes will look like. Expand from there to current sport superbikes, which are largely shaped by aerodynamics.
Certainly looks like it has a lot of potential. Looking forward to the release.
I don't know how they will look, but it will certainly take a while for me to get used to the engine sound or lack thereof.
As someone who wears 1 earplug and 1 earbud when commuting (no engine sound at all), I don't feel this is an issue. I don't hear the engine anyway.
The clutch less riding experience on the other hand... that said, I am 100% sold on electric. I'm just waiting for a bike that can accomplish 200 miles at 85 MPH. I will buy on day 1 if the price is below USD$20k and has good commuting ergonomics.
I would always be vary of day one releases for such expensive purchases. If a little while later it turns out there are some major drawbacks that were somewhat unforeseen (let's say, the battery capacity depletes fast because you live in a very cold country or something the engineers might not have accounted for or optimised for), would suck to have poured that much money into it.
We've waited this many years, wait a couple months longer to see reviews. That's what I would do atleast, if I could even remotely afford that xD
I agree with day 1 issues, but it wouldn't be my only bike, and I'm willing to take one for the team.
Electric replacements for most motorcycles don't make much sense, it's a solution looking for a problem. A bike that's big and heavy enough to cruise at 65mph is going to be too run into massive battery problems, and the range will never compare to gas. Battery technology is improving, but not nearly enough to beat the power to weight ratio of petroleum.
Where EV's make a lot of sense is in the 20-30 mph world that is occupied by stuff like ebikes, scooters, and Sur Rons. Something you can roll around on, and still bring inside an apartment. If I lived in a city, I would absolutely mob around on some sort of sur ron.
I would predict that in the future people will increasingly use EV's to get around in cities, but will usually have some sort of petroleum vehicle they can move things with or travel reasonable distance.
This isn't about your opinion of EV batteries tech. It's a discussion about aesthetic design.
Each single time on reddit.
The tech will dictate the design. If every electric bike is going to center around a huge battery, we will see bikes designed around big batteries. And by design, they are going to be very small compared to a motorcycle. The fact that these bikes are likely to go in the 20-30mph range plays a big role in the design of the bikes. Because cargo will never be an EV's strong suit, these bikes will probably be pretty minimalist, almost getting into pedal bike territory.
If you actually want to guess what they will look like, you need to understand what they will be functionally
They will be limited in range by battery size and technology. Period.
Hydrogen is a possibility if a battery and Hydrogen based generator can be miniaturized to fit into a motorcycle.
PLUG power makes hydrogen power plants for forklifts, so the size and output is improving. https://www.plugpower.com/fuel-cell-power/gendrive/
Bit then you need hydrogen infrastructure for hydrogen fuelling, which a fair bit of the world has failed to consider or do.
Hydrogen is a dead end technology for the consumer market and has been for years.
Hydrogen cars have been a colossal failure, there's zero hope for hydrogen motorcycles.
BEV won the battle long ago and batteries will continue to improve, to say otherwise is absolutely asinine.
I concur. Battery tech needs to evolve, form factor, capacity, and charge rates all have improved but need to improve further as well as reduce in costs associated to manufacturings, materials.
I think they need to design a pack that can be swapped out at a local recharging location. There will not be enough charging points to keep up with demand.
This is a great idea. The very first electric car, with lead acid batteries just utilized a full battery swap, done in minutes.
this would have to be legislated that the auto/bike manufacturers conform to a standard battery that is interchangeable between brands.
I think some are working on that but the tech is changing soo quickly it's hard to keep up. Plus it would have to be the industry that leads it. I like it party as you never own the battery so the resale of the car still remains good as nobody will touch a car with a degraded battery.
My mates where wibbling about Fuel Cell cars as I think Honda cars are going to give it another go, EV hasnlimits and so far nobody has taken into account how it's just not practical for the majority of users.
This isn't a thread about your opinion on EV bikes.
"How do you think future electric motorcycles will look like"
So... fuck you?
This isn't about your opinion of EV batteries tech. It's a discussion about aesthetic design.
Don't worry you're not alone. Many Karen and Buck on reddit just wait for the slightest occasion to drop their out of thread opinions.
Why are you so passive aggressive to everyone here? Chill the fuck out buddy.
Seriously! Someone is in their feels here.
I'm not, I'm honestly tired of people like those, just vomiting their unrelated opinions at each occasions.
No, you are passive aggressive. How can you be this tired and angry over people sharing their opinion that is tangential to the topic?
it will have 2 wheels. A seat. and aero. and the majority of the drive system will be where a gas powered unit has a tank and engine. A radiator or cooling system will have surface area at he front.
Calm the fuck down.
Lol, you seem like the one on the verge of cracking. You read the thread wrong, I made you notice, that's it.
Take your pills and go touch grass.
I hope we see storage where the tank used to be and maybe in the mean time until we have farther battery ranges we could see an electric dual sport with easily exchangeable pannier style batteries.
Imo the most appealing electric prototype to date is the Triumph TE-1.
I hope they look like they currently do. I'm a big fan of the SR/S that I test rode. If battery capacity improves and the US infrastructure becomes more EV friendly, I think Zero could just stay their current course and take over the market
The only electric motorcycles I've seen have been knock off brands. Yamasaki lexmoto etc. Like the lexmoto cypher. It looks like a normal motorbike but has no exaust and no gear change.
last October I rode a Harley LiveWire, and it was so easy to ride. No gears and no clutch. It was awesome and easy. Just hit the throttle.
I think for electric bikes to get accepted, the styling is going to be retro or racerep.
Expect more fullfaired bikes maybe?
Although a naked with the battery in a finned aluminium heatsink with feature wiring could look pretty cool. Bandit/Fazer sorted. But the livewire was pretty much there.
Whilst looking like something out of a sci-fi movie appeals to early adopters, riders are quite conservative. A BMW GS or RT pretty much just loses them annoying things that stick out in front of the riders feet.
I'm not sure a Goldwing would look any different.
Seen the leccy trials bikes? The teenager in me so wants one.
Look up The Lost World 1983; I mean the BMW rs 1000 looked kinda like that in 1988, but in the future it will have guns.
I think conventional Li-ion battery technology is a dead end. Too heavy, too low an energy density, too long to charge and too difficult to make universal to allow easy swapping vs charging.
Technology is advancing. Advances are being made, for example, with a so-called "[power paste](https://www.zmescience.com/science/powerpaste-goo-stores-10-times-the-energy-density-of-lithium-ion-batteries/)" under development that uses hydrogen to store energy in a paste-form with 10x the energy density of lithium. Currently, a Li-ion battery might have an energy density of 260Wh/kg. While it's still a long ways from gasoline's 12889Wh/kg, a paste with 2600Wh/kg would be a game changer in the EV world, including motorcycles.
A HD Livewire has a 15.5kWh battery. To get that with a 260Wh/kg lithium-ion batteries you need a 60kg (131-lb) battery. That could be achieved with a 6kg (13-lb) hydrogen paste battery. The prospects for swaps/paste recharges etc are so much better for this than traditional batteries.
Even if it's not this particular paste, I think the state of the energy storage art will advance past the lithium-ion cell (in all its many iterations) to something better in the not too distant future.
This isn't about your opinion of EV batteries tech. It's a discussion about aesthetic design.
Can this be used for internal combustion, or is it still electric? I don't want internal combustion to go away...
I feel the same re ICE engines.
This technology would, as far as I can tell, be applicable to fuel cells so it would be for electric propulsion.
I really enjoy the ones that are starting to look out there. I'm hoping that solid state batteries open the door to crazy designs with good range. Biggest thing stopping me buying one is the range followed by an inability to charge it anywhere.
I also hope that they place a speaker on it with the ability to buy 'engine' noises. The tech we could have on these bugs could be awesome!
They will look like China rules the world.
I hope I'm dead and gone before that happens.
Wow the edge.
I think you're right. The problem I have with the Metacycle from Sandors is the wasted space. A common problem on motorcycles is the lack of storage. The Metacycle could have used all that space to use storage, at least an helmet storage.