T O P

Noticed cardboard hangers instead of plastic hangers while working on my shift.

Noticed cardboard hangers instead of plastic hangers while working on my shift.

Wonderful_Warthog310

My SIL tried starting up a business making these a few years back. She had to shut it down because she wasn't a big account, and her factory dropped her. The hangers were surprisingly robust- not like the cardboard most people are thinking of. The idea was you could just toss them in your home recycling bin when you were done. I thought it was a solid idea.


Alclis

That’s a pity, she was just a few years too early. Probably an increasing customer base for these now.


sir_fancypants

I mean, sort of. For big box stores, it's unlikely that a home business could be competitive against manufacturing companies that can produce and sell these things for pennies in bulk.


Summoarpleaz

She would need some kind of patent or trade secret to really make it huge, otherwise any manufacturer could probably make these on their own. Shocking that it isnt more prevalent unless plastic is just that much cheaper still.


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Bagellord

If the plastic (or metal) ones are getting reused and lasting a good long while, wouldn't it be better to still use those materials for that?


DoingCharleyWork

Ya but recyclable cardboard feels good to some consumers so they might switch because of that even if there isn't actually a net environmental gain. A lot of people keep the hangers and use them at home too. Not sure you could do that for long with these.


NotElizaHenry

What, what’s with the tossing them in your recycling bin when you’re “done”? I’m only done with a hanger when it breaks. Hangers aren’t single-use plastic.


anonymouse278

A lot of clothes, especially kids’ clothes, are sold on very flimsy plastic hangers that aren’t very practical for home use, or even that don’t function at all unless the clothing is also affixed with plastic ties.


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NotElizaHenry

I’m actually big into konmari folding and I use wooden hangers for what I don’t fold, so I just don’t take hangers home from the store. Stores reuse them.


aDrunkWithAgun

There is a perfectly good food for all cloths Edit floor


Aystha

Yup. Welcome to greenwashing


Elistariel

Same here, but from a business perspective: - people like companies that care about the environment. (Even if sometimes how those items are shipped isn't, but customers can't see that.) - now the store can ALSO sell you clothes hangers, as opposed to you getting a free one. (IDK about y'all, but I've always had to ask to keep hangers. Usually the checkout person takes them out before bagging, so the store can use them again.) I wonder how much (if at all) the clothing prices are marked up to cover the cost of the cardboard hangers.


Bagellord

Who'd have thought clothes hangers could be so complicated?


swarmy1

Unfortunately, many companies do not reuse hangers. I know at least few places at least toss the hangers if customers don't take them because it's cheaper to just get new ones than handle the reverse logistics.


Purpletech

Reverse logistics of an employee taking a box of hangars removed at the register to the back of the store and using them to hang new shirts?


onemassive

Clothes probably come with hangers, ready to display.


Supercoolguy7

It depends. You'd have to do an analysis to determine how many uses the cardboard hanger would have to last through to break even with the plastic from a manufacturing perspective. Then you'd have to try and decide how much the different recycling/breakdown times matter to you. IE 10% of cardboard recycled with 15 year breakdown time vs 5% of plastic recycled with 150 year breakdown time. Also you have to take into account that they use different materials. Cardboard is fundamentally made with a renewable resource (trees) and can thus be ethically (or at least more ethically) sourced than non-renewable resources, whereas plastic requires oil and creates microplatics as it breaks down. There are other materials as well so you'd have to look at those as well in your analysis After doing all that you can decide which of the two is "greener." But you have too look at many variables


karadinx

Being honest tho, most of the math for these comes down to “does the good PR of using ‘green’ materials offset the price of using the cardboard”. Tho I am assuming they actually cost any more than the plastic ones and could actually be cheaper (in upfront cost) with the stores writing each one off as a consumable and ignoring the “reusability” of either.


MagicCatPaul

This is true, I work retail and we have a special box that we fill up with the plastic hangers and they get sent back


Cattaphract

This stuff is so simple, there wouldnt be much to patent. Unless she developed a very specific robust version that had a difference which customers cared about


mtm4440

You mean the big box companies could "squish her like the cockroach she is".


Summoarpleaz

Basically. I feel like I’m on an episode of Shark Tank


HooTighForThis

Especially when most people don't want to take them home anyways so they get reused a lot


atwitchyfairy

The problem is that it's designed for stores to give to customers. The ones they already have are reused over and over again so why would a big store add on another thing to buy just to give to the customer.


inwhichzeegoesinsane

Prolly coulda started with one of the hipsterish chains that could offset any costs/etc with the good publicity (that their customer base would approve of) of using recyclable materials/etc Bit like how Chipotle got started. Not everyone who eats there now cares about its initial brand image but it didn't hurt em early on and was useful in justifying costs.


inwhichzeegoesinsane

> That’s a pity, she was just a few years too early It's all about the branding/marketing


BBQ__Becky

It may just be me, but I don’t really see the need for disposable hangers. I’ve never thrown away a hanger after I use it unless it a) breaks or b) gets bent. I suppose large retail stores that sell the hangers with the garment *could* use these, but the likelihood that she could keep up with demand just being a startup would be unlikely.


Annoying_Auditor

Cardboard can be sturdy as hell. I got cabinets delivered and they were boxed is cardboard. That was the hardest cardboard I've ever had to cut up.


bbmu_VK

I’ve had furniture delivered in recycled cardboard that you’d need a saw to cut up. Felt as hard as wood.


Jdbn62

I make that container board! We 100% use saws to cut it out when there’s a jam in our line


bbmu_VK

Well, my young child thanks you for your product! I ordered a bookshelf, and entire unit was edged with long pieces of that tough-as-nails cardboard to protect the edges. He promptly turned the pieces into a giant car ramp, and a pandemic later that cardboard is STILL in one indestructible piece after consistent daily little kid use! I think he even dumped water down the track at one point, and that cardboard was like: “really? is that all you got?”


W4r6060

Probably sturdier than the cabinets.


GiveToOedipus

I mean really, when you thinks bout it, the only thing different between hardboard, MDF and non corrugated cardboard is the density to which it is pressed when it is being made. There may be slight differences in the glue formulations between them, but I'd have to leave that to someone else to speak up to. The fibers that go into making those three products tend to be the roughly the same from my understanding though.


19374729

There’s also single and double walled cardboard for reinforcement


GiveToOedipus

Most people think of cardboard as the corrugated type, which the vast majority is, but you see pressed cardboard in products all the time. Hell, a significant amount of IKEA furniture is essentially pressed cardboard with a veneer of some sort.


Raleigh_Dude

I know a company called HELLO TREEHOUSE GOODS making cool hangers for kids like this, with cutouts like Stars And Hearts later used as decorations.


Lybychick

I would like to see this for the 2-piece set group of kids clothes and lingerie. Both products often are sold somewhat attached to the hanger so it leaves the store with the customer. Almost nobody reuses those specialty hangers once they get home.


houndmomnc

Agree. But I can’t get past the fact that I keep reading “kids clothes and lingerie” as the 2-piece group. Need more coffee, I guess


Lybychick

The solution is likely punctuation… if I’d had three examples instead of two, I’d have been saved by the Oxford comma.


MelodicSasquatch

I think just using "or" instead of "and" would fix it.


_teadog

Could also change the order. "Lingerie and kid's clothes" is a lot less ambiguous. Signed, fellow pedant.


Lybychick

Yep


houndmomnc

LOL, it makes sense as-is. I'm just a weirdo. I'm also a grammar nerd. Did you know that Oxford University has disavowed the "Oxford comma"?? (I'm not correcting you, I just find it amusing.) Anyway, I guess we all have to advocate for the "serial comma.")


Lybychick

They can disavow all they want, but it’s not really going away. They should be flattered.


ParlorSoldier

Wait wait…they disavowed the *use* of the comma or its being called the Oxford comma? Because of one those would be unforgivable.


houndmomnc

Actually, it turns out that I was misled by a librarian friend who told me that. I just looked, and it appears that Oxford, by and large, still uses (and embraces the moniker for) it but that their PR Department does not.


Its0nlyRocketScience

Perhaps "two piece set group*s* like kids clothes *or* lingerie" would have been better


steelybean

Kids, clothes, and lingerie.


[deleted]

Excuse you. My 2yr olds clothes need to have those hangers or else how will the Elsa top and bottoms always be together? Or the Minnie top and polka dot bottoms? Hmmm. Hmmmmmm. Hmmmmm?!?! /s lol this is dope!


Lybychick

My thoughts were that the cardboard 2-piece hangers would be less likely to find themselves between the toes while trying to sneak across a sleeping child’s floor that is already littered with Barbi shoes and tickle-me Sesame Street toys that laugh and rattle across the floor when brushed slightly with them hem of a bathrobe. I really do not miss having toddlers!


[deleted]

Cardboard will be so much less likely to break if they get to them! Not leaving little plastic prices everywhere lol My little one is pretty good about cleaning up but yes, you described my nights now for the next few years haha!


Kytail

At our local store, if you take off the plastic hangers and give them to the cashier (or attendant, for the self-checkout) for re-use, they will kindly take the hangars from you, smile/thank you, and then proceed to throw then in the garbage right in front of you. This has been the case since long before COVID, so it's not a sanitary thing.


microwaveburritos

Also leggings, they’re usually folded over that weird little hanger and have a tag through them


LydiaAgain

I haven't seen a time/date stamped picture since disposal film cameras


youridv1

I don't get why some phones still do it. Most use a file format that supports timestamping and most even support geo tagging.


theferrarifan2348

One possibility is to save the timestamp in a permanent way since most online photo hosts strip all the metadata to save storage space


RamenDutchman

Also, because some people don't understand looking at the file's properties or changing the view in their file manager This approach is more grandma-friendly®!


theferrarifan2348

Whenever I save an image from reddit, it always has a stripped timestamp, with the creation time listed on the file manager being the download time instead of the post's upload time (or earlier). Though that might just be an app thing and not universal


Cerg1998

Date of creation is more often= date of download than not, for any file from the internet, from my experience.


demize95

For images, the actual date it was taken/created can usually be stored in the file itself, in the EXIF metadata. That date isn’t displayed by Windows as the creation date though, and as other people mentioned in this thread it gets stripped by most services you could upload it to. Similarly, most document files can have a creation date in the file metadata, but Windows will ignore that for the most part. The creation date you see in Windows (or in any other file manager, for that matter) is metadata on the filesystem level. If you put the files in an archive folder, that metadata may be preserved when others download it, but other than that it gets lost when you upload it somewhere as it’s not part of the file—it’s stored with the file, but is not part of what gets uploaded.


Cerg1998

Im aware, even included in the comment at first, but i removed it after finding out that Reddit actually removes exif data, apparently.


overpoopulation

>grandma-friendly® I like that


Rebelsoul3480

Found the Grandma!


hami12

Or people who u know … gasp … develop film


ashcan_not_trashcan

They strip it so you can't figure out where they live with the location data.


DorrajD

Is it to save space tho? Metadata does not take up that much space lmao


Baneken

For privacy reasons; a meta data can contain almost anything including a GPS location and not many realise to check their camera or phone meta data settings.


Glucioo

My dad has time stamp enabled. It saves time opening properties when going through many photos, at this point he has thousands, when showing them to relatives


JustNobodyPNW

It’s a setting you can turn off and on with some phones.


zh1K476tt9pq

then the picture gets posted online and it's all lost. honestly timestamps would actually be a good thing to at least slightly improve social media


Dracyn

In some countries it can be useful for legal purposes. Obviously not the case here.


PullingUpDaisies

I'm pretty sure you can choose to have a timestamp on photos on a many different devices. It would make sense that Op did so in this case


hellcat_uk

Now, since 01:00 14 June 2021. ​ ​ ^(Ackchyually Hellcat it depends when they saw the post, not when the photo was taken...)


Mizzy3030

The time/date stamp is actually more interesting than the OP


aqua_seafoam_

I'm afraid it's too interesting for this sub


DorrajD

Most if not all phones have a setting to put the date on photos you take. I've seen it a few times with my friends, it helps them retain the memories time frame since when you eventually need to move the photo or put it online, it could lose the date taken data.


GiveMeOneGoodReason

Really? I've never seen this setting on Samsung, Google, or Apple camera apps.


LouMimzy

I switched out the batteries in a digital camera my parents lent me for vacation (this was like 10 years ago). I didnt realize it was putting time stamps on my photos, and not just that, but it was the WRONG date and completely wrong year. What's more irritating than time stamps? Time stamps with the wrong date. It took about 30 pics before I realized it.


chabybaloo

I sometimes use the app opencamera, it has this feature, and it does help with work. There is also no confusion when checking the file info when its from a back up etc or if the photo needs to be printed for proof or evidence.


AndersTheUsurper

You mean old digital cameras? I don't think disposal film cameras had that kind of tech. I certainly don't remember ever setting a clock on a disposable camera


hardcore_fish

Is that towels? I've never seen towels on hangers in stores.


HicJacetMelilla

Looks like beach towels. They’ll usually hang them like this to better display the pattern.


Hocra

Yep, exactly for that reason, bought one of them the other week, http://imgur.com/a/qTbCQOU


Hellbear

https://www.cultivatingcapital.com/cardboard-hangers/ “Using Ditto Hangers, our clients can pack 20% more clothing in cartons before shipping which translates to 20% fewer cartons to ship, 20% less labor from loading, 20% less freight costs, and ultimately thousands of dollars in shipping.”


SpeedYYYY

Imo its even better to just dont implement hangers when packaging. Every single piece of clothing is often wrapped in plastic, just leave the hanger and ship the clothing without them. Let stores find there own solution how they want to visually merchandise the clothing and how they are doing good things for the environment. In our store (europe) we have our own hangers (wood, with branding). Our clothing gets shipped without hangers. We use our hangers for ages and when needed we repaint them. Maybe some stores have the size named on the hanger and use them becauseof that, thats not needed, all clothing has the size on the inside.


MilitaryGradeFursuit

It's a lot cheaper to pay the people in the sweatshop to hang up the clothes than to pay the people making minimum wage in a western democracy to hang up the clothes. This picture was taken at a Walmart so clearly it's a cost-saving thing.


Victoria7474

> This picture was taken at a Walmart so clearly I figure it's an ad. Easilly recognized as WalMart, pushing a "Look at the steps we take for the environment" agenda, while in reality it's just another sweatshop item made of trees. Making any actual meaningful change might cut into profits. Including simply using reusable hangers in stores and not sending them out to customers trash bins- that would hinder hanger and cardboard hanger sales! Our store recently *added* clothes as a department and the fallout of trash has been seriously disgusting- every item is on a disposable hanger (often broke in transit) wrapped in a plastic bag and then grouped with other bagged items into a BIG bag, then boxed and shipped. Often times, there's even extra slices of plastic mixed in to keep decals from falling off (instead of making better clothes that don't fall apart at a glance, they heavily wrap the items and display them hanging to keep shitty decals from pressing onto other clothes!)


shitposts_over_9000

Most US stores had store hangers up until about the 1980s, the current break-even for items in most big-box stores where it becomes cost-effective to require additional cashier time and training to deal with items needing more than just scanned at the checkout is $50-$100 depending on where you live and how much competition is nearby and is a large part of the reason they started adding dedicated checkouts to high-theft departments like electronics where they use the prox alarm tags. The loss and breakage on that stuff is terrible in US retail and wooden hangers start at about $1 where reusable plastic ones are $0.11 and disposable ones are more like $0.005 or less at quantity. Placing garments on shelves works, but it is more labor intensive than hangers use gravity to keep the clothes presentable so it is usually on reserved for things that would require more durable hangers due to weight. On top of that you are adding opportunities for the employees to damage the clothing when placing and removing the hangars and eating up a ton of man-hours. You might get the industry to switch to something easier to recycle like wire dry-cleaning hangers since those would have most of the advantages of the plastic ones other than being heavier and adding to freight costs. The bags also serve several purposes - they make it much easier to fit much more folded clothing into a given size of box. they keep fine particulate off of the clothing from the air, forklifts, semi-trucks, container ships, and from the packaging itself. they provide a moisture barrier so that you do not have to pack as many desiccant packs into the shipment for the sea voyage to prevent mold and mildew. they make more of the shipment salvageable when something does contaminate it in transit by preventing the entire load from wicking up whatever it was exposed to through direct contact. and finally they make sure that as many of the items ordered arrive in their factory identical state as possible for ease of stocking at the store. Paper and cardstock hangers have been around for a while, and in some cases they make a lot of sense, for bulky or heavy things or things that get a lot of handling or humidity exposure before sale they do not and I am not sure that the additional petroleum use remove the bags and hangers from the equation and make up for it in additional destination end labor and wastage would be a net positive for the environment.


Ferro_Giconi

Do they typically ship clothes with the hangar included or is that marketing speak that ignores an important factor, such as clothes not being shipped with a hangar when the store has reusable hangars? I'm asking because I don't know. I always see stores with their own hangars that are consistent across every clothes item and brand so I assumed clothes get shipped without a hanger and are put on hangars at the store.


jwill602

I think they were going for cost-saving, but this is also environmentally friendly!


Squish_MLB

Cardboard and wood alternatives generally produce a lot more co2 to make so while being good for the fishes it's not as clear cut when it comes to being good for the environment.


CatpainLeghatsenia

out of couriosity, what part of the process produces a lot of co2? Is the making of paper products energy intesive so using renewable energy would negate the co2 heavy part or is there a part in the paper making process that releases a lot of co2 from the material?


RosarioPawson

You're on the right track - making pulp for cardboard/paper products is both energy and water intensive. In addition, cardboard and paper products that are shipped across the world and stored in large warehouses usually need to be treated with some chemicals to prevent rot and absorbing moisture, deter bugs and pests, and sometimes to make them more flame retardant. There's also different types of chemicals that can be used while shaping/moulding paper products - think paper mache but on an industrial scale - and making each of these necessary chemical components comes with its own CO2 cost. To make usable paper-based products to replace what we currently use plastic for, there's several industries that would need to be involved to make less costly decisions from a CO2 perspective all along their manufacturing processes and supply chains. It is expensive for a company to undertake these massive changes, which is why we don't see them happening on a large scale quite yet. This could change in the future, as governments start to make policies around environmental protection, the next big step is for governments to offer tax write offs and/or subsidies for companies that choose to make better environmental decisions with their market share. So while paper products are better for the environment from a decomposition perspective, we're still a ways away from them being the most economical decision from a price point and CO2 emissions perspective. I have hope; there's a lot of brilliant and caring people working on this gigantic puzzle, and seeing cardboard hangers instead of plastic in a big box retailer is a small step in the right direction.


AlphaWizard

Thank you for typing all of this up, I don't think people understand just how resource intensive paper production is. It's used all the time to greenwash products, but it's far from a perfect solution. At least in my experience, paper manufacturers also tend to be suuuper resistant to change, as it's a commodity with very little margin. Anyone that's been near a paper mill can tell you though, they're hell on the local environment as well. They also stink like you wouldn't believe.


zk_z

wouldn't its recyclability counteract that?


mad153

Recycling requires a lot of energy and water. Most is actually just burnt. (Depends on where you live though)


boredenough2comment

Cardboard recycling is so viable that organised crime gangs actually steal cardboard awaiting recycling. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53724620


Kckc321

Can they come steal my recycling pls


gilga-flesh

Wow, crimegangs stealing waste cardboard to recycle. That's the most uplifting news I've heard in 30 years.


boredenough2comment

I mean, it takes tens of millions from local government and makes recycling schemes less viable but the point is that I'm sick and tired of reddit's cynical teenage attitude towards recycling. In many cases it is incredibly viable and effective but redditors have seen a few headlines about the difficulties of plastic recycling and now loudly proclaim that the entire concept is pointless.


ChronWeasely

I am a very staunch glass, metal, and uncontaminated paper recycler. I always used to be with recycling plastics, but there are so many items that are so difficult and intensive to properly clean for recycling. Not only that but the vast majority of American plastics recycling is sold, buried, and/or burned. Uncontaminated plastics I still very much recycle as it's easy enough.


Evilmaze

See the thing is there's no such thing as "clean alternative" because every process uses energy and resources. But those are considered "cleaner alternative". It's not perfect and free of waste, but it's better than whatever it's replacing and that's the important thing. No fucking way plastic hangers are better for the environment than recycled cardboard ones.


Dane1414

Interesting. Well, now that I know better I’ll be sure to share this on any recycling conversations I see going forward


ripvannwinkler

The hive mind is a dangerous beast. For better and worse.


boredenough2comment

It's more a cynical "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" attitude. It's easier to be snide than do anything. Edit: Although, yes, I do take your point. There have been a number of big reddit posts about recycling in the last few months and now lots of redditors have taken on the new "recycling is a scam" paradigm.


Haveyouseenmynachos

Sounds like my ex husband.


FireLordObamaOG

Some things are infinitely recycle-able. But plastic isn’t one of them. Basically there comes a point with plastic where the companies won’t recycle them and so we need to find uses for them in and around our home.


NerdMachine

It depends on the region and government regimes in place. Where I live there is only one cardboard recycler and it costs almost as much to dump it at the recycler as it does to dump garbage. Not enough to cover the cost of keeping it separate from garbage. Totally different in higher density areas.


realultralord

Do these organized crime gangs have a phone number? Because my empty pizza boxes are piling up.


bulelainwen

Pizza boxes aren’t recyclable.


xylotism

1800-ECO-GANG


LydiaAgain

Recycling also requires people to actually recycle, and recycle correctly, which doesn't usually happen


Kckc321

My mom works at an expensive retirement home and there’s currently a big blowout bc she tipped off one of the residents that the recycling (which the residents actually put a huge amount of effort into) all gets thrown in the trash. Wouldn’t matter if the retirement home did it either bc a few years ago, there was the same scandal with the landfill our city uses, soooo…. Yeah it’s just theft really, since they charge you for recycling services.


Dazz316

What about all the stuff that ends up in dumps? It's great stuff is recycle but a lot of stuff doesn't get the and ends up sitting in a pile. Being bio degradable is good in that size too.


MatsRivel

Also a lot of "card board" products have plastics in then, ruining their recyclability. Milk cartons are often a good example of this.


daeryon

This is less a problem with cardboard broadly, and specifically with a type of packaging - I know them as [Tetra-Paks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra_Pak#Recycling) based on the name of one of the largest suppliers, but these are the folded cardboard containers that also have layers of plastic and aluminum. They are *technically* recyclable, but not easily.


Electrorocket

We place them in the same bin as plastics, not the one for cardboard. At least in NY.


Suspicious-Stand6699

Are you saying recycling is bad for the environment ? /s


Violet_AVO

People tend to forget the reuse part Which why I basically have an over abundance of Tupperware from all the sammich meat


quarrelsome_napkin

Careful with sammich meat you don't want to have too much of it.


MyNameCannotBeSpoken

Too much sammich meat helps to reduce and recycle life


ElephantsAreHeavy

recycling is not, but only a small fraction of recyclable waste is recycled. Certainly in contaminated single-stream situations.


KGrahnn

One must look for LCAs or create one for comparison. Until that you really cant tell.


snoosh00

Plastic is significantly more reusable, which doesn't require entirely remaking the object


CivilServiced

Absolutely, but in this example the "hangers" (really just flimsy plastic hoops) being replaced are never reused.


Dantai

Reuse is far better than recycling just to add.


sync-centre

Reduce > Reuse > Recycle Aim for the first option.


Muffer-Nl

If the energy used for carboard production is moved to renewable energy (which is entirely possible) this issue is entirely remedied. Paper packaging is often heavier and thicker than plastic packaging, which is the reason why it has nore co2 emissions. Considering many of these plastic hangers are about the same seize and closer in weight is is entirely possible that these specific paper alternative are less c02 intensive.


Squish_MLB

If it was replacing a single use plastic item I would agree but when talking about a hanger that will be re used many times compared to a cardboard one that will not I still think the plastic version would come out on top. I am speculating though. Would be interesting to see the actual statistics.


Muffer-Nl

I dont know. Where I live every store uses metal hangers that they keep and re-use for other products. If you want hangers you gotta buy them yourself.


SweatyNomad

As another commenter alluded to, I don't think store hangers are single use, they are kept by the store at the till pretty much everywhere unless you are buying something like a suit. I would say the wire hangers that come back from the cleaners are more likely to be chucked.


shehasgotmoxie

All of the cleaners I have gone to offer an incentive to return these. Usually it's small (like 5 or 10 cents per hanger) but it's nice to know I have an alternative to throwing them out.


altbekannt

Afaik using wood products is still more environmentally friendly, because it's close to a zero sum game. While planting trees you collect co2 which then again will be released to the environment. Using oil to create plastics just adds co2 artificially to the environment.


Fen_

In the grand scheme of what contributes to CO2 in our society, this is completely unnotable. It's a purely positive change aside from whatever you could say about trees or the water used.


TheZenPsychopath

Microplastics and pollution are a huuuuuge thing too. I don't give a fuck if it's worse for the trees or co2 right now. We need to do EVERYTHING we can as a species to stop making plastic in a many possible places as we can. You eat microplastics every day. There is not an animal on earth without them. The plants you eat suck them up from the dirt. Sea salt we put on our food is full of plastic. The ocean is full of plastic, as are landfills. If there is anything generation's of the future will absolutely hate us for and lament how fucking stupid we are, it'll be plastic.


Zhuul

The thing that really stumps me is car tires. I've seen estimates that microparticles of rubber from tire wear are responsible for \~30% of microplastic contamination depending on where you are.


2020BillyJoel

https://www.timesnownews.com/the-buzz/article/scientist-takes-first-ever-journey-to-3rd-deepest-ocean-trench-finds-plastic-at-bottom/764184


paperman78

Im no climate scientist, but if I had to choose between a little more CO2 going into the atmosphere through renewable lumber operations and adding microplastics into the environment, I would think the CO2 would be a lot less harmful.


KaizokuShojo

CO2 is worse in our lifetime. If on the same track, the warming trend will absolutely screw a bunch of creatures (including ourselves). Not that I want to stick up for plastics or anything. I'd like to see numbers on how metal hangers compare. Metal hangers are near-infinitely reusable and (if nothing else) recyclable everywhere.


sp1d3_b0y

It still biodegrades and doesn’t produce micro plastics. Production CO2 emissions themselves aren’t incredibly harmful to the environment, it’s the mass amount of cars and ACs and everything with the other chemicals that are actively hurting the environment.


newyearnewcakeday

The atmosphere fixes itself fairly quickly. Plastic takes thousands of years to degrade and kills wildlife Fun fact: the main reason why we switch from paper to plastic bags was because plastic put out less CO2 in production It really just depends whether you want to sacrifice the atmosphere or a choking turtle


JBupp

It would be great if there was a computer program to run the numbers.


sth128

It's clear cut if you're using virgin pulp to make cardboards.


bulelainwen

Is the petroleum used in plastics not equally producing CO2?


bizzaro321

I’m not even sure if this is cost saving, they’d have to be replaced much more. I think there’s a reason we didn’t see this until it was also popular to use recyclables.


princesscatling

Not really. One of our suppliers switched over to cardboard hangers for one of their styles. Those hangers get broken and crushed very easily. We eventually gave up and switched back to plastic for all their styles.


Chemistry11

Environmentally friendly? Less durable, less reusable, more likely to end up in the trash… seems to be the opposite of environmentally friendly


katieleehaw

Isn’t reusable better than disposable though? Those plastic hangers often get used for a very long time. Idk.


IAmInside

Is it really, though? I thought the idea was to move away from single use plastic and not plastic as a whole. Plastic hangers would've been reused hundreds if not thousands of times. I want to see this cardboard hanger do the same.


ommcc

I get that plastic is bad for the environment but plastic hangers are reusable, these wouldn't last very long. The clear plastic ones with the metal hooks which are the most common i see in stores seem pretty durable. I bet stores get enough uses out of them to justify the use of plastic.


sargentTACO

Used to work at a kohl's. Can confirm we reused the hell out of those things. Rule of thumb was to not give hangers to customers unless they asked for them, specifically so we could continue to use them.


newyearnewcakeday

Stores near me will treat the hangers like cash if you walk out with one. (I did it accidentally, always return them)


cookies_nd_milf346

I hated taking hangers home so I always ask the worker if they could remove them before popping it into the bag as I've enough hangers at home. I thought I was being a Hassel by asking 😅


We_Are_Vigilant_

It's literally impossible to put a shirt into a shopping bag while the hanger is still on there without it being awkward and probably falling out.


The_wolf2014

I bought a pair of running shorts online. They were delivered with the plastic hanger still on them. Why the hell do I need that?! Surely they'd be easier to package without the hanger too


lonerchick

I went to kohl’s a couple weeks ago and the guy gave me the hanger. Awkward me did not know how to reject it. Stupid thing did not fit in the bag correctly so now there is a random hanger in my trunk for the next 1-2 years.


The_wolf2014

What happened to the good old fashioned wire hangers? Infinitely reusable and recyclable. Need a new TV antenna? Boom, wire hanger. Locked yourself out of your car? Boom, wire hanger. Need to whip a fool for bad mouthing your momma? Boom, whip out the wire hanger


TheZenPsychopath

You owning the the hanger for 20 years is 0.2% of its lifetime and hangers are difficult to recycle. There is no amount of use that warrants making something that will leach microplastics for a thousand years so matter how many cardboard ones are used to replace them


fartknoocker

How many resources are put into making cardboard ones for 20 years to replace the one plastic hanger?


SwordSwallowee

I work at a very large international fashion retailer and I can tell you we get through literal thousands of single use plastic hangers a day in my store. I'd be very happy to see the switch to cardboard


FroztedMech

But why are they only used once? Are they not durable enough to be reused?


SwordSwallowee

Sometimes they are, sometimes they break. I suppose the company has decided that the time savings of having fresh hangers ready to go (with correct size labels on them) ultimately saves them money and that is what capitalism prioritises. We sell 1000's of items per day and sifting through hanger bins to find the right type of hanger for each item would be a nightmare. Obviously though there are solutions. Either this, where we stay with the single-use idea but make it a little better for the environment, or we change to more sturdy reusable wooden or plastic hangers that customers don't have the option of taking with them. Though I don't see that second option happening too soon to be honest


scout610

I'm getting Primark vibes here


ferretchad

The Primark hangers last ages at home though, I assumed that they were reasonably durable so that they could be reused - saving 10p on a hanger makes a big difference on a £3 shirt. Primark almost always keeps the hanger unless you ask as well. At higher end shops it would be more (financially) justifiable to not bother because it cuts into the profit margin less.


Kid_Adult

Every regular clothing store I've been to has hangers with interchangeable garment size labels that clip on near the hook.


Paetolus

I also work at a place like this (might be the same retailer). We're also required to not ask customers at all if they want the hangers or not, we just let them keep them by default unless they specifically say they don't want them. All clothing items ship with the hangers already on the clothing as well, meaning that any hanger reuse is going to be purely just for items that were returned by a customer. All hangers not reused (the vast vast majority) are generally gotten rid of. To be honest, the sheer amount of foot traffic our store gets is insane for a clothing retailer, so I kinda get why it's more profitable to do it that way. I do wish they switched to full on cardboard for the sake of recycling (some items do already come with cardboard hangers, although not ones that could be used for normal clothing).


SwordSwallowee

I decided not to protect the anonymity of the retailer so you can see from my previous comments if it's the same place (though with identical policies it seems likely) Assuming it's the same place, do you think cardboard hangers like this could work for the rest of the stock ? Considering how many hangers come broken in the box anyway I'd say it could


Ferro_Giconi

This seems like a good idea, but without seeing data to back it up, it's still entirely possible this isn't helping, because paper isn't an environmental miracle like some people think it is. At some point, if a piece of plastic lasts long enough, it will become more environmentally friendly than producing pieces of cardboard that get thrown away every time, because it's not just the material not decomposing that causes environmental problems. Farming the trees to make theses is an environmental problem. It may not involve cutting down natural forests but farming in general bad for the environment. Running the factory to convert those trees into cardboard, and the factory to cut that cardboard to shape are both environmental problems too. And then you are shipping one of these for every article of clothing instead of one that gets reused and doesn't take up space on a truck every time. And then you have to spend energy recycling them, or they take up space in our non-infinitely sized landfills. Paper straws are one thing. The plastic variant typically gets thrown away after one use due to health and hygiene concerns, so a paper one makes sense. But when it's something that could get used 100 times, is the energy and chemical usage of producing 100 paper ones really better for the environment? I am of the belief that there is a pretty good chance it is better especially if they get reused. But I also want the data that proves it, otherwise I'm just going to keep wondering if with all the factors involved, if it actually helps in this case or not.


Altruistic-Rice-5567

I hate the whole "Save the environment" movement. Not because I don't like the environment, or that I don't want it to be available for generations to come. I hate it because it's like all the responsibility is placed on me for saving it and like I'm the only one that destroyed it. But in the meantime everyone else gets to do stupid shit. I still get a ton of junk mail that I NEVER even look at it that wastes trees. And now cardboard hangers. Why? So the store clerk doesn't have to take the hangar out at the cash register and no other employee has to be bothered to recycle the hanger into new inventory. But the customer just takes it home and throws it out. Look how convenient for everyone. IT only looks like an attempt to trick people into thinking something eco-friendly was done. And now I'm expected to make up the difference and do yet more shit to save your fucking planet.


Kir4_

Why even hang towels like that? Seem like a total waste. Plastic hangers for clothes would be reused since they'd take them back at checkout, these I assume you take with you and just throw into the trash since these aren't really sturdy plus people most likely have tons of hangers at home. someone commented it saves packing space, again, what's the hanger for when you're packing towels.


[deleted]

I suppose hanged towels are more eye-catching than folded.


Sara848

That’s exactly what it is. These are beach towels and most like have fun patterns on them.


CarlDilkington

I feel like "mildly" is a bit of an overstatement on this one


Showta-99

Okay time for a little mythbusting here. I study environmental anthropology, sustainability and am aware of much of the “issues” with recycling. Myth 1 “recycling doesn’t work” that’s just not true, many nations who invest in reusable products, regulate production or single use products and implement large scale recycling programs such as Sweden, Netherlands and even parts of Asia are seeing a huge economic boon from this. Some as others have mentioned like Sweden has found that by importing others trash they can get in on the lucrative idea of selling recycled goods. Myth 2 “a little CO2 is okay” NO ITS NOT CO2 emissions are exactly what is killing this planet, plastics are a part of that, plastic manufacturing, fossil fuel use, and out reliance on single use plastic plastic products are leading to ocean acidification which is killing marine life on a scale we have never seen before. This acidification is reducing disolved oxygen in the waters, upsetting balances, killing coral reefs and basically just screwing up the entire ocean system. All while ever year we release more CO2 into the atmosphere. All of our carbon sinks such as forests, grasslands, the ocean, and waterways are maxed out, without a massive reduction in CO2 production very soon we soon going to reach a point of no return where our CO2 production is way beyond their ability to collect carbon. Furthermore this production is the entire reason for global rise in temperature and upset in weather patterns for various atmospheric reasons much of it having to do with the earth’s inability to expel heat. Myth 3 “consumers are at fault” this is probably the biggest myth for environmental protection, the consumer on the grand scale is a tiny player. Buying a plastic bottle once doesn’t cause as much environmental damage as the company that refuses to use aluminum cans. Plastic is used in the manufacturing industry mostly because of cost, this plastic bags were not created to lower environmental impact instead it was because we had a crap ton of oil and needed to figure out what to do with it. Oil production is astronomical, and once crude oil is refined into the various fuels using toxic chemicals and the natural gas is burned off there are byproducts that are used in the manufacturing of plastics. All of this has nothing to do with helping or saving the environment it’s all to make a buck. Imagine it like this, if you had a gallon of product x and you could make one thing from it and only get a quart of it you couldn’t make as much. So instead imagine if you could use almost the entire gallon and make a dozen products, you could sell all of that and make a ton. The 1950s-1970s was the fastest growing time for oil chemists they produced hundreds if not thousands of products from oil. As a person we use very little of those products in an average life, even if you threw away bottles and only used single use plastics etc your impact compared to industries Abe corporations on the water, electricity, CO2 production and resource miss management would be negligible compared to issues such as Nestle and their water monopoly or any of the dozens of industries and companies that consume resources on a grand scale all to make a cheaper product. This is not to say we cannot speak with our wallet it’s just saying that what you consume in a lifetime, they consume in a weekday. Myth 4 “reduce, reuse, recycle” This water program was created entirely by the oil industry and other corporations to push blame on the consumer. It says that YOU need to stop buying plastics, stop consuming so much, stop driving so much all while the government regulations, industry standard, and predicting if plastics continued. It passed the buck on to the consumer for decades and still is. It blames YOU for the deforestation, for the water use, etc. if you want to make an impact, research the companies, look and see what they are actively doing to support sustainability and reducing or offsetting their carbon footprint. Now as a consumer, voter, and person we have to all work together to push for regulation both on recycling programs, reduction of fossil fuels, and resource management and we have to be aware of which companies are more proactive and which do not care. Examples of this are Nestle and their program of water rights or Sugar industries and their living wage/slavery issues. There are hundreds of thousands of stories such as this and wading through all of them are incredible difficult, I prefer to put it this way, do a little research and then buy in the best way you can to feel guilt free. We can’t change everything but if all of us vote, buy, and work towards pushing for regulation, implementation and organization of a sustainable system we can make a difference. Bottom line, buy the cardboard hangers instead of the plastic, because if you do, and the plastic never sells the industry will change, money drives the machine. You see this today, visit any Target or other higher end retailer, even Walmart and you see dozens if not hundreds of products on cans, cardboard, or recycled containers along with labeling such as fair trade, rain forest alliance etc all tracking or offering transparency to where and how the product was sourced. This here is just a small slice of the pie, there is so much more to it, but if you want to make a difference, one of the largest ways you can do that is by what you eat, what companies you buy from, and how often you speak up/vote on these issues. Fun fact: Walmart has a green initiative program and it’s quite good. Anyways just some info I think everyone needs.


hammertime850

who remembers when we switch away from paper products to "save the trees"


bludvein

This seems more for the appearance of 'environmentally-friendly' rather than having any serious advantages over wire and even plastic coat hangers. These don't look sturdy at all, whereas im sure I've got conventional hangers in the closet that are at least 15 years old and look just fine.


SwordSwallowee

These aren't a replacement for reusable hangers though, these are replacing single use or almost single use hangers. I think this is a definite step in the right direction and I really hope something like this is implemented in my store soon


SquishMitt3n

Yeah, they've been good for 15 years. They'll continue to be good until they break, then they're in landfill for thousands of years. Cardboard is mildly inconvenient but fucks right off when you don't need it.


1984become2020

the carbon footprint involved with the manufacturering and transportation of all these cardboard hangers erases any percieved benefit to the environment. metal hangers would be best and theyd last for basically ever


Digitaalex

I'm not sure which of the two will lead to more waste


Marvingardens63

Like the concept, but why hang towels at all? Save the hanger (plastic or cardboard) and just fold them on a table.


CrosiusYYC

Paper or Plastic seems to provoke arguments from both sides of the recyclable vs biodegrade debate. It seems to me that these (and their plastic counterparts) are still essentially disposable, which is a problem. A store should have durable hangers and collect them at checkout. Customers should buy their own hangers for home. These disposable ones are for stores that "let you keep the hangers with our compliments" except you get them home and throw them away because they break. Whether they're plastic or wood/paper they're fragile and quickly wind up in the trash.


TheWildTofuHunter

Never understood anyone wanting to keep store hangers. They’re flimsy, they’ve been handled by god knows who and realistically you aren’t going to wash them, and to your point we all have our own hangers at home. Heck, I love my matching black hangers. It’s such a waste to make disposable hangers.


MrSatanicTrial

That’s awesome-would love to see this everywhere


JR2502

It's a pain to pick a car's door lock with these.


1FlyersFTW1

This is so stupid. Hangers are reusable, most stores keep the hangers. This is actually WORSE for the environment. Holy fuck people use your heads


gcrimson

Corporations : "We dit it we saved the ~~city~~ planet"


CateFace

Can we talk about why a towel needed a hanger anyways? This is super unnecessary, fold the damn thing.


ytWatchletter

This is stupid, plastic hangers are a million times more durable and constantly get reused until the end of time, cardboard could be used like 4 times and would break instantly, thus having to replace it, do this like 10 times and its worse than the plastic would have been


doomgang2

Use case is important, these are towels those hangers normally are giffen away and not reused. But trousers and shirts should use reusable hangers.


SwordSwallowee

I work fashion retail, the plastic hangers we use are essentially single use as all stock that gets delivered has new hangers in the boxes with the clothes. It's depressing as hell.


pileodung

Where do you work? Every retail store I've worked at used reusable hangers. Shipments would come unhung, unfolded in plastic bags, sometimes individually, (the REAL waste) The only thing I would see come in on hangers is baby clothes, absolutely a waste, those hangers are garbage. And heavyweight jackets like Spyder that need heavy duty plastic to support the weight.


SwordSwallowee

Primark. I believe quantity is one of the issues. It's not unusual for us to get 40 pallets of stock per day. It's safe to say that we sell a significantly higher volume of clothes than any other retailer in my city. Our process is the same except the items are folded, in boxes, in plastic wrappers, pre-hung on hangers ready to go on the rails.


[deleted]

Then you have Walmart who sells tons of clothes. And they use the cheap plastic hangers that'll break if you accidentally twist it the wrong way.


SwordSwallowee

Sounds like Walmart and Primark are reading the same playbook


TheZenPsychopath

But they aren't constantly reused until the end of time. They could be, but they aren't. Are you passing your plastic hangers on to your children's children as valuable family heirlooms? Or are they almost guaranteed to have been broken or thrown out within a lifetime or two if you're extremely lucky, and 100 years leaves like 900 to be a pollutant. I'd take more cardboard hangers. No microplastics to kill huge swaths of life and pollute the earth!


MrConductorsAshes

It's not stupid at all. They're cardboard because they're cheap as hell, not because they're trying to be environmentally-conscious.


Another_human_3

The metal hangers look kind of shitty and old school, but, they were good for environment in that they were very recyclable, and also that metal wire could be useful for the odd thing here and there.