T O P

Matrix and the Virus. Why not unleashing a virus on Zion?

Matrix and the Virus. Why not unleashing a virus on Zion?

Ed_Derick_

Machines need Zion to survive. Hell, the machines most likely built Zion (even the concept artist for the city of Zion talks about that, he doesn't confirm it, he just says it seems like it). The machines realized there will always be this 1% of people who will reject this system, but if they are left unchecked they will crash the Matrix. When the people of Zion (redpills) release people from the Matrix, they are doing the machines a favor. The redpills always target the bluepills that are starting to doubt their world is real (for example, "KID" was contacted by Neo when he asked people online "Why my dreams feel more real than when i'am awake) they are un-intentionally stopping the Matrix from crashing. The machines could destroy Zion any time they wanted in the most efficient way possible, but they choose not to. Zion is just another layer of control. "This will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it." \~The Architect. They only attack Zion to force the One to return to the source and reboot the Matrix so the 1% anomaly gets under control for a while, until it needs to be rebooted again. (The One still needs to choose 23 people to repopulate Zion , probably because the machines fear that if left unchecked Zion's super population will be it's downfall.)


TouchAltruistic

Surely the machines have to rebuild it each time they destroy it.


Affectionate-Sale382

They build it in a way that has defenses to keep them out?


TouchAltruistic

Of course. Well, the inhabitants of Zion believe they have stable defenses, but they don't really have that, do they? Those machines just sort of come right on in.


azeraph

That's interesting about who built Zion, i always thought it was a bad design.


Spam00r

What I'm talking about is once they have made the decision to destroy Zion after it has served it's purpose, why do they stage a Jihad style attack with a quarter million sentinels to destroy Zion. Why waste all these valuable resources? It would undoubtedly be far more efficient to gas Zion with a Virus or a toxic fume and kill everyone inside it like cockroaches without a single Machine causality or any damage to the city at all.


depastino

>It would undoubtedly be far more efficient to gas Zion with a Virus or a toxic fume and kill everyone inside it like cockroaches without a single Machine causality or any damage to the city at all. Unless the plan is to eliminate all traces of it because the people escaping after each reload are made to believe that they are the first Zion.


TouchAltruistic

Great concise explanation. However, I seriously doubt the humans I'm Zion, regardless of their numbers, posed any real threat to the machines.


Affectionate-Sale382

Ive had responses in here from people who claim the machines built Zion. You brought up an interesting point though about needing the mainframe codes. Seems odd they would *want* Zion there and yet do everything in their power to stop Zionists from doing what they do. Also the way Tank talks about it, it sounds like humans found it, chose it, and built all facilities. ("Where the earth is still warm." - Like they *chose* this location.)(Again, people in here have told me machines built zion). So it's set up that way, even after machines destroyed it 6 times? Are you sure Architect wasn't talking about deatroying the Matrix? Also note how many of the people in Zion were full grown, developed, and even starting families. So say in Neos case. They return him to some hard drive, he picks his 23. What happens to his actual body? We are told the machines repopulate Zion -- so actually "grow" those people, outside of the matrix, and somehow set them up in a way where they think they are free? It doesn't soumd that way when Morpheus tells the story, and the actions he takes.


depastino

You have a lot of the same questions as others around here. We don't really have answers. We can make logical assumptions, but that's it. >Ive had responses in here from people who claim the machines built Zion. The answer really isn't given, but if deception about the cycles is the true aim and this current cycle is around 100 years, it seems logical that Zion was built completely by the humans and not the Machines. (Admittedly with stolen components and technology.) Technologically speaking, look how far mankind has come since 1921. I think that, within this fictional setting, this answer is plausible. >Seems odd they would want Zion there and yet do everything in their power to stop Zionists from doing what they do. They don't *want* Zion. It's a necessary evil. The Machines therefore work to slow the progress of the settlement as much as possible. My theory is that the Machines always killed those who reject, until the anomaly screwed things up. Now, the Machines allow the settlement to exist because it serves their best interest. Once the One appears and reload becomes necessary, THEN they kill everyone. Zion is a place to keep the external human population in check until they are no longer needed. "Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end." >Also the way Tank talks about it, it sounds like humans found it, chose it, and built all facilities. I agree >So it's set up that way, even after machines destroyed it 6 times? Yup >Are you sure Architect wasn't talking about deatroying the Matrix? Nope >Also note how many of the people in Zion were full grown, developed, and even starting families. After 100 years, this seems reasonable to me. >So say in Neos case. They return him to some hard drive, he picks his 23. What happens to his actual body? We have to assume that his physical body is spared and he survives to help the 23 build the new Zion. Based on what Morpheus was saying, the One prior to Neo was part of the settlement in the beginning. >We are told the machines repopulate Zion -- so actually "grow" those people, outside of the matrix, and somehow set them up in a way where they think they are free? The Machines don't do it. The One is tasked with repopulating Zion, presumably the old-fashioned way. Zion is populated gradually by freeing minds and natural births.


amysteriousmystery

Do you or do you not want there to be a movie?


Spam00r

I want there to be a Good movie. Not one with Gaping plot holes in it. There are already plenty of crappy Marvel Movies that make Zero sense.


amysteriousmystery

What you said is not a plot hole. Replace the attack to Zion with the release of a virus and the story remains the same, Zion didn't stand a chance before and it still wouldn't now. But with the assault option you can make a movie out of it.


Spam00r

You can also make a movie with the release of a virus. What I' wanna say is that the machines could have extinct everyone in Zion effortlessly. Instead they stage a medieval Jihad like assault with giant diggers, which is ridiculous, when all it would have needed is a can of poisonous gas and everyone in Zion would have taken their last breath. ​ The Plot Hole here is: Why go to such lengths if you could have it so much easier?! This does not get explained. Ergos vis-a-vis: PlotHole!


depastino

Just because something isn't fully explained doesn't make it a plot hole. While you make valid points, you're also making a lot of assumptions. In this instance, you are alleging that the city need not be destroyed if they just kill everyone in Zion with a disease, correct? I could argue that another reason they don't do this is that they don't want a lingering super bug to interfere with the next iteration of Zion. A better question might be why the Machines don't just vaporize everyone with some type of extreme heat not involving radiation.


Spam00r

It's not my assumption that the Machines want to kill everyone inside Zion, it is explicitly laid out like that in the Movie that they want to do it. And that they have done so several times in the past. Also you make your own assumptions like the machines not being able to use a Bio weapon that does not dissolve itself shortly afterwards. Such arguments are just excuses. They could have also just cut air supply to Zion or boiled them out with heat and a million other ways that will not contaminate Zion. My point is valid, that if the machines wanted to kill everyone they could have gone far far easier routes than what we were shown in revolutions. Why they do so is not explained.


depastino

>It's not my assumption that the Machines want to kill everyone inside Zion I'm not referring to that at all You're assuming that the Machines have or even want to develop a bio-weapon. You're also assuming that this method is *much* easier. Finally, you're assuming that the Machines want the Zion infrastructure to remain intact. My belief is that what they want is for the site to *look* like a remnant of an apocalyptic war between man and machine that the new founders of Zion are made to believe ended very recently. You do understand that each new Zion is meant to think they are the FIRST Zion?


Spam00r

So what do you think the first Zionist thought who made that deep underworld city?


depastino

Well, it was a group of people. Technically the first person is the former One. So what they thought is that they had to do what it took to preserve humanity, even if that meant deceiving the first settlers. The One understands the purpose of that location and what the established settlement should look and function like because they lived there.


Spam00r

You see the First One got away with deceiving the Zionist about the origin of the Zion city. They believed his lies, and didn't question him. So why would the machines bother with what Zion looks like? It will look like a wasteland whether they roll over it with an armada or not. On the contrary. With that huge hole in the ceiling made by the diggers, the humans will need Machine help to make that place inhabitable again. There are some who even argue that with that kind of damage, there is no way they are gonna rebuild it but instead will make and Zion somewhere else and therefore there must be 5 other Zion ruins somewhere else. So why destroy it to such an extent in the firs place?


depastino

Are you asking why they reduce the city to rubble? I'd guess that forcing the One to start Zion again completely from scratch just serves to lengthen the period between reloads. The goal is to maintain stability for as long as possible.


ogMackBlack

Sadly, this kind of plot hole is within the structure of every movie ever made. Once you start questioning the logic of something fictional, you go down the rabbit hole and get lost.


wheres-deja-vu

Wasn’t it a challenge for machines to find where Zion was? Cue all the scenes of running and hiding away from the sentinels. Mainframe access codes - can’t physically reach them. Maybe if they got through the physical barrier they could unleash a virus but the Architect did say they were already efficiently killing humans each One iteration so maybe they just thought, let’s keep doing this because we know it works. “…sounds exactly like the thinking of a machine to me.” -Morpheus


OSU-1-BETTA

The machines know where Zion is and always have they just don’t attack until it’s near the end of that iteration of the matrix. And then it’s rebuilt and they wait again as the cycle went on until neo made a peace treaty with them and broke the cycle.


wheres-deja-vu

I guess I don’t remember now but that makes sense.


OSU-1-BETTA

The guy below with the large paragraph describes it pretty well if you wanna read it


wheres-deja-vu

Yes I know this but I’m assuming OP means when they destroy Zion, why not with a virus? That’s what I was answering.


OSU-1-BETTA

Since the remainder of humanity lives in pods from birth to death I’m pretty sure viruses or at least 99% of them would be extinct as they wouldn’t be able to spread. And if there are any viruses in Zion everyone would have an immunity to it since they live there.


wheres-deja-vu

I think it’s more efficient the way they attacked with sentinels. A virus may be too complicated and take too long. Also yeah, there could be a level of immunity.


OSU-1-BETTA

Yea that’s true, sentinels probably get the job done a lot easier


Spam00r

Toxic gas kills people in matters of seconds.


OSU-1-BETTA

I guess that would depend if the sentinels had access to toxic gas lol


Spam00r

Last thing I heard, there was no immunity to Ebola or Small Pox. Or Cyclone B gas.


Jamesdavid0

lol yeah its funny to see all these people who must have just watched the Matrix movies who really have no clue what's going on.


OSU-1-BETTA

For real, but I can understand as it took me a few re watches and some reading online to grasp what the story was


Affectionate-Sale382

So how long are we thinking an "iteration" is? Well over a thousand years?


Affectionate-Sale382

So he broke the cycle... Safe to assume this would change future events? I wonder what new goals there would be..?


TouchAltruistic

Smith wanted the codes to the Zion mainframe. Smith was not a representative of the machines; Smith was their tool, their slave. He was as trapped in the Matrix as anyone. The machines were in total control of the planet, of Zion, where it was, what it’s inhabitants had, etc. All of it was to facilitate the emergence of the One and the cycle as explained in the sequels.


brian_danger

There's alot of braindead takes on the subreddit. "What if Neo actually made the Matrix so like the machines are really the ones trapped? Huh! Ever thought about that one guys?" Can we stop with the stupid theorizing?


crincled

Because they're machines, not humans. Only humans could be that evil!