By - TheRealOutis_
the amount of 'unpopular opinion but i saw this movie and I hated/ loved it' posts I have seen on this sub the last couple of days is insane.
The number of people subscribed to this sub has effectively doubled since Phase 4 began.
Wondeful news Norman
I'm something of a subscriber myself.
Oh, you can't do this to me
YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!!
Eight extra large deep dish pizzas?
Back to formula?
Wandavision brought me here
Thought we wouldn't notice!
But we did.
Shield Agent: "Its Galagin time."
you know my username is based on that exact scene from The Avengers
Impressive. Very nice.
Lets hear Paul Allens story
"I was a Doctor with a rare blood disorder. I thought it would be good idea to use bat DNA to cure my condition. Instead, it turned me into a vampire and gave me the ability to Morb. I am... Morbius."
best one i saw lmao
I understood that reference
Unpopular opinion but I've loved every installment to the MCU. Especially the movies and TV shows.
The only movie I don't like in the entirety of the MCU is Thor 2. Only because I found it dreadfully boring. Other than that? Give me all of them.
Even then it had some fun stuff in there. Heimdall taking down the Dark Elf ship solo, Loki impersonating Captain America, the escape from Asgard, Mjolnir just trying to catch up with Thor as he passes through various portals, etc. It's one of the weakest entries for sure, but it isn't bad. The weakest of the MCU has been stronger than many of the Pre-MCU Marvel films we had gotten previously.
*Spider-Man 2 has entered the chat*
They said many, not all :p
I used to say I didn't like Iron Man 3. I really couldn't get over how they did the Mandarin. I was dumb. That movie is fine.
Looking back it seems like a simpler time in MCU. When not every villian needs to connect or be a world ending threat. Super fun finding out the terror villain is an actor. Trevor was also fun in Shang Chi.
Hell yes! Trevor popping up in Shang Chi made it that much better.
I always enjoyed that take on the Mandarin because this was just after Loki’s invasion and Earth was dealing with the fact that aliens are real and that these godlike superheroes exist fully in the public eye, so the idea of this big, exaggerated, manufactured villain felt like the kind of thing somebody would do in this new reality.
It seemed like Marvel was really intent on retconning Phase 2 heavily to be more satisfying over the last 2 years. So even stuff you may not have loved has improved in retrospect.
Shang chi made me appreciate iron man 3 more.
I couldn't get over how they did the Extremis storyline and Maya. But I got over it. Mandarin, I figured they'd bring up later, and how they did!
I feel like everone that hated Iron Man 3 came at it from a "didn't respect the source" angle. I didn't know much about the story so I loved the movie from the gate.
I watched it in theater already having been introduced to KKBB.
I really liked everything except the final battle in iron man 3
I'm a deranged little shit, Thor 2 is my favorite Thor movie lmao. It's weird when all my friends like the taika ones
Dark world is boring as dick, but I preferred it's focus on the realms and how it felt kinda like a space fantasy. That ain't gonna convince anyone though lol
I felt it had the potential to be amazing but the execution was off. Jane was relegated to damsel in distress who legit fainted at a key moment, and the villain’s entire motivation was… I mean… he wants to send the nine realms into darkness because… his species likes it that way? At least give him a revenge arc against Odin or something, but he was already trying to carry out his plan 5000 years ago and doesn’t deviate when he gets a second go around. There was no depth to him.
Yeah, I prefer the world building and the wonder given to the Asgardians in 1 and 2, but Malekith is just so one dimensional.
Thor 2 has some fantastic scenes. It's a shame the bones of the movie just don't hold up.
Unpopular opinion: As a Daredevil fan from the moment it aired on Netflix I still loved Kingpin's portrayal on Hawkeye and thought it was fine
I however am also used to reading comics where Jessica Jones can go from a severe alcoholic with a history of abuse from Kilgrave in Alias to being Spider-Man's love interest in a happy go lucky comic instead lol
I can't even imagine how Jessica and Peter would meet given how the MCU version of the former is way older than the latter.
Still, I'd kill to see Krysten Ritter and Tom Holland interact with each other in some form or fashion.
what's the run to read for that?
honestly same ive enjoyed all of them even though some are way better than others
right? I enjoy like 99% of it. I thought this was a normal thing.
Omg, me too!! I love MCU tv shows and movies, they are the best part!
You know the comment section bout to be good when the top comment has 65 upvotes among(us) 500 comments
Edit: guess i commented early but this comment section is still a banger
I did not like eternals but I don't feel like it's an unpopular opinion.
I enjoyed it much more the second time but that was just me
Same. When I saw it in theaters, I had a showtime around 7:30-7:45 so by the end I was getting tired and waiting for it to be over. When I watched it at home I was able to appreciate it a lot more.
Marvel fans are on insane amounts of copium right now. One anticipated movie gets middling reviews and reception, and everyone in here is acting like a guy on an airplane screaming "everyone calm down, it was just turbulence!"
And just like any restaurant, you're allowed to try any dish they offer. And you're allowed to decide whether you like the dish and whether you want to recommend it to other people. You're allowed to be critical or to heap praise on their dishes so long as you remain respectful because at the end of the day, you paid the price of admission and your opinion on their dishes is as valuable as anyone else's.
Also, in most restaurants I don’t need to have eaten the last 3 meals to have any idea what’s happening in this one. It’s like if someone brought you a steak smothered in pea soup, and when you rightly ask what the hell is wrong with them, they scold you for not having been here last night for the big Pea Soup Steak reveal that only people who ordered the salmon got to see.
Well, if you’re eating at Marvel, you’re in for a 311 course meal
As long as you don't insult the IQ of people who do like it, all good.
> As long as you don't insult the IQ of people who do like it, all good.
As long as you don't insult the IQ of people who do OR DON'T like it, all good.
Some people get so defensive about anyone who criticizes the MCU, it’s bizarre.
Marvel has released 6 movies and 7 television shows over the last year and a half, with varying degrees of quality. The criticisms have been warranted. I’ve enjoyed the vast majority of the content, but I’m not blind. It’s hitting a point of over saturation when more often than not the content isnt really top tier.
It’s okay if people are critical! It’s the biggest film studio on the planet. They deserve to be put under a microscope
These people posting overwhelmingly positive knee-jerk posts need to remember it’s not punching down to criticize aspects of a film that makes literally a billion dollars. Disney does not need you rushing to its defense when it puts out subpar content.
What's worse is that some people also like to see criticism always in this political light. I don't watch Ms. Marvel because it didn't seem like a show for me, but I get called a bigot, sexist, and racist for saying so. I hope people realize where a franchise unexamined actually goes. What happens is you get clusterfucks like the Star Wars sequels, where thing end up unplanned and criticism are dismissed by any of the top brass as just a vocal minority. And that's how we got episode IX. Media is meant to be analyzed at the very least as what it reflects about our culture and humanity. To not do so is just brainless pandering to a corporation who will abandon you at a whim. Ultimately I think some people are feeling abandoned by a franchise they really enjoyed for a long time. It's the burger join that starts selling tacos and now everything is a little worse because they lost focus.
I really don't think it's that they're defending Disney out of compassion, but they read the criticism as "this is bad and if you like it, then you got poor taste in cinema", they just hide their self-defense under a veil of white-knighthood in an attempt to gain moral superiority.
To be fair.. that's likely in part because a lot of the criticism of the movies/shows take very overt shots at the audience while they do it.
In fairness, thats something thats true for basically anything popular; but because genuine criticism often gets mixed in its creates that association.
> Some people get so defensive about anyone who criticizes the MCU, it’s bizarre.
IMO it's because the MCU didn't get any real criticism for 10+ years. The people you're talking about are having a very tough time handling Phase 4 not getting unanimous acclaim as compared to Phases 1-3.
I'm surprised to see this getting repeated. Criticism of the MCU shouldn't be new to anyone older than 10.
Films that received some backlash:
* The Incredible Hulk (e.g. for its story)
- Iron Man 2 (e.g. for its villain)
- Thor (e.g., deviating from Iron Man's "realism")
- Captain America (e.g., for being corny at times)
- Iron Man 3 (e.g., for a lot of reasons)
- Thor: The Darkworld (e.g., for being a snoozefest)
- Avengers: Age of Ultron (e.g., for feeling inconsequential)
- Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (e.g., for undercutting serious moments with jokes)
- Captain Marvel (e.g., for some clunky scenes)
Also, I keep seeing complaints about "oversaturation" by television. At one point, all the Netflix and ABC shows were posed as connecting to the MCU and it wasn't until much later that it became clear they wouldn't (which is one of the reasons so many fans still beg for them to be acknowledged on film; they watched potentially hundreds of episodes without payoff). An abundance of content isn't new per se.
I never really understood the criticism of Guardians 2 honestly. I always found that both Guardians films ended up undercutting the humour with really serious moments. There are occasional moments in both films where the humour is a bit forced but the serious moments in 2 have always been what I remember most fondly.
James Gunn is just a good ass writer and director tbh - Peacemaker and Suicide Squad were just as good as GotG
Oh yeah, the serious moments are definitely still there. Yondu's sacrifice and subsequent funeral aren't undercut by any humor (minus Kraglin's shouting maybe, but even that was more him getting caught up in the moment). And the reverse of that kind of thing happens in the Drax and Mantis scene. It starts off funny, where Drax is telling her she's hideous. Then it gets oddly sweet when he tells her it's a good thing, and then it gets more somber without the presence of a joke. So it's not like the scenes are always being undercut by comedy.
I agree. Such a beautiful scene. Even ends with Rocket of all people shedding a tear. That Cat Stevens song was a perfect pick.
Suicide Squad walked so Peacemaker could run, imho.
And I'd argue The Suicide Squad ran so Peacemaker could sprint.
If anything The Suicide Squad sprinted so Peacemaker could also sprint but very slightly faster
The big one that stands out to me is when they're fighting Ego and they're doing the hero group pose and Mantis gets clocked in the head with some debris.
In my opinion the Guardians movies balance humor and drama far better than the last two Thor movies did. Gunn knows when he needs to be serious, Waititi does not. At least he allowed Jane's moment the weight it deserved.
Gunn knows how to write characters that are funny, but not full-on nonsensical parodies of themselves.
And I wouldn't say that any of the humor in the Guardians movies is at the expense of the Guardians characters (except maybe Mantis with that random boulder to the head), unlike with Thor.
I'm still annoyed he turned Banner sacrificing himself to save Asgard into a punchline with that bridge faceplant. That was a deeply heroic moment, Banner deserved better. Meanwhile Gunn gave Yondu one of the best sacrificial deaths in the MCU, with no jokes.
James Gunnisms go on and do undercut the drama with the humor at times when there’s supposed to be a meaningful emotional moment but that said, they’re still the most personally directed films in the MCU and GOTG 3 is the last hope for this phase for me in some ways
Guardians 1 is a really good, ive rewatched it 20+ times. Its near perfect and executes its vision so well.
Guardians 2 was boring at times, and the story was weird to me. I dont think ive ever rewatched it.
Well, the Netflix shows *are* being acknowledged if Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox in Hawkeye and No Way Home, respectively, were anything to go by. And they are slowly, but surely, incorporating some elements of AOS into the mainline MCU, too. Namely the Darkhold.
And yeah, as someone who loves Guardians 2, I can definitely agree that this movie would set a pretty bad precedent for the MCU's overabundance of bathos. Which would eventually reach its peak with Love and Thunder since one of the main criticisms that I've seen is - you guessed it - too much bathos.
Thank you mentioning the shows.
We often get defensive about their canonity (specifically AoS), but ultimately they’re the characters that have had the most screen time in the MCU. AoS had seven seasons, the majority containing 22 episodes at 45 minutes each. You get an unbelievable amount of character development and the chemistry between them and it is honestly upsetting to see them sort of tossed aside within the larger universe.
The key difference I’d say between oversaturation with TV in the Infinity Saga vs Phase 4 is that the early shows were always treated as “Non-essential viewing, but allows you to dive deeper into the universe if you’d like”. I believe I’m right in thinking phase 4’s TV was originally planned to be non-essential as well, but then MoM came out and showed that they were absolutely essential viewing.
At the end of the day, phase 4 so far has been a lot of set up for the future and we’ve not had any big team ups or Avenger-level threats that made the MCU the unique universe it is. But we are only a year and a half into this phase, they’re coming, they need setting up, and when they come out I feel this criticism about low quality/not for me entries is going to disappear. You’ve got one more character set up show to go before we get Secret Invasion, which without having a trailer is probably going to go down positively with everyone (Gimme back Daisy tho Feige, please), you’ve got BP2 which by all rumours is likely introducing THAT guy, Quanumania with Kang in February and then The Marvels later in the year.
We’re almost through with the new phase set up and we are so close to the real good stuff that we’re all waiting for. Be patient, everything will be fine and the MCU that everyone fell in love with will be back very soon.
So to kick back a bit on this - it's more that Phase 2 and 3 were broadly composed of both audience and critically acclaimed blockbusters *and that all of the phases didn't have anything below mediocre films*. Phase 3 really knocked it out of the park with Civil War, Ragnarok, Black Panther, Infinity War, Homecoming, and Endgame, while the middling films of the original 3 phases were a) almost entirely stand-alone and b) just mediocre at worst - of which there were really only two (Hulk and The Dark World). The non-acclaimed MCU films of this era were mostly criticized for not matching the promise of their predecessors (IM2, IM3, AoU, and GotG2 from your list all fit this bill).
The Phase 4 content, on the other hand, want to replicate the success of Phase 1, but are split between trying to establish entirely new roles and characters (so fans and casual audiences are like "why should I care about this disconnected story?") and making them required viewing to understand a film (watching MoM without WandaVision makes the "twist" come completely out of nowhere rather than mostly out of nowhere and is jarring). It's why most people - fans and casuals - were happy with Shang-Chi, because it walked the balance of an origin well and it came before the proliferation of storylines the MCU wants you to follow.
FATWS suffers from comparison to Captain America, Eternals suffers from being both a badly put together movie and being an ensemble film, MoM suffers from being a roughly put together movie and a follow up to two major beloved characters, Black Widow suffered from being a mediocre follow up to Far From Home and a movie about a dead character who was the 5th most popular member of the core team.
(People keep trying to defend Phase 4 with Feige's comments about multiple storylines, but that only makes sense if the storylines feel like they're going anywhere *and if the audience has any idea which franchises are connected*. How am I supposed to know if Moon Knight is going to connect to the multiverse storyline or the cosmic storyline or no storyline at all before I watch it?)
> Also, I keep seeing complaints about "oversaturation" by television.
It is oversaturation because it's becoming *required* viewing. The Netflix and ABC shows were marketed as connected, but not required, in the case of AoS and Agent Carter, they also didn't require a subscription to watch. Now, though, we have MCU content coming out every month suffering from the fatal flaw I mentioned before: the lack of cohesion. Coupled with the fact that this now feels like required viewing (Loki to understand Quantumania, What If... and WandaVision to understand MoM, Ms. Marvel to understand The Marvels).
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if these sentiments is true, it only matters that the sentiment *feel true* to audiences. Just like with AoS, viewership is falling lower and lower because there's no payoff or sense that one will come.
My comment was in response to the idea that criticism is "new" rather than whether it's valid.
I agree that Phase 3 "knocked it out of the park." And though I enjoyed phase 2, it was definitely not received as well. Moreover, I think a lot of those films would be receieved more harshly had they come after the consistent quality of the Phase 3 films.
"Just like with AoS, viewership is falling lower and lower because there's no payoff or sense that one will come."
Yeah, that's a really good comparison. As with AoS, there's likely to be a lingering fanbase regardless of any misteps, but it might be hard to attract the general audience back once they've left.
Shang chi definitely has the most potential and is the most rewatchable of the new movies
And you didn't even mention the three biggest ones (that I'm not agreeing with, merely repeating):
The franchise is formulaic, it's not cinema but a theme park and it lacks interesting music themes and recognizable leitmotivs.
You'd have to live in a bubble under a rock to think criticism of the MCU is a new thing lol. People were talking about getting tired of the "MCU oversaturation" 10 years ago, saying Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man were already scrapping the bottom of the barrel for content.
If anything, it's exactly the excessive amount of criticism (even including my own) being continuously proven wrong that's making me take Phase 4 for what it is and stop complaining about it. Anytime I'm thinking "oh it feels like it's going nowhere" or "there's too many characters being introduced without a connecting tissue yet" I remember thinking "lol what could they even do with a man with ant power" or "no way Infinity War will be able to juggle that amount of characters in a single movie" or...
All those films were interspaced with something genuinely great so you forgave the troughs. In phase 4 we haven't had any peaks to balance things out.
Counter-argument: contrast makes the troughs feel worse, which is one of the reasons why some are so vocal about their distaste for Love & Thunder. They were hoping Ragnarok wasn't the apex of Thor's story, but rather a stage in his upward trajectory.
I think there's also a lot of recency bias. I vividly remember a lot of fans were jaded by Age of Ultron because they felt it didn't live up to the glory of the first Avengers movie (I liked both, which goes back to OP's point about the MCU being like a restaurant).
Also, Iron Man's narrative doesn't feel as disappointing now that we have his conclusion in Endgame, but the downward trend of his trilogy disappointed a lot of people when it came out nearly a decade ago.
Edit: Inevitably, there are some people that didn't like No Way Home or Shang-Chi, but otherwise those films were very well regarded. So the claim that there haven't been "genuinely great" films in phase 4 is a little insincere unless it's just a reflection of personal taste. In which case, it's totally fine being an outlier. I can think of a few films that were very popular but I didn't care for.
We just had No Way Home… it’s literally one of the most universally loved MCU movies, Raimi fans loved it, Webb fans loved it, how is it not a peak?
Phase 4 has had Loki, Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, Wanda Vision, Hawkeye, and No Way Home...
It's literally people just waiting for it to fail because it doesn't cater perfectly to them.
Phase 1 had Incredible Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Captain America, and four years later Avengers. It is hard on paper to even pretend Phase 1 was at Phase 4's level.
People also have a Star Wars level of rose-colored glasses. The Phase One stuff is not the height of cinema, just as a lot of this rebuilding era is a work in progress today. But kids who watched Iron Man at 11 are now 25, and for them Marvel's Thanos arc is formative to their lives and it's hard to criticize that.
Right?! I enjoyed seeing the prequels and Return of the Jedi as a kid, so I'm still biased by nostalgia toward forgiving their flaws, but as an adult I can totally see why a lot of fans felt Star Wars was in a rut.
It's hilariously strange how many people aggressively defend the prequels or RotJ but cannot fathom the children of today growing up to one day feel the same about the sequels.
Thanos doesn't appear until five movies in and with no dialogue and people are upset that Kang isn't as big a figure as Thanos was. Seriously...
Compare the running time
FYI for those wondering, based on a post from last week:
Phase 1 = 12.4 hrs/6 movies
Phase 2 = 12.7 hrs/6 movies
Phase 3 = 24.9 hrs/11 movies
Phase 4 (so far as of Thor LT) = 49.5 hrs/6 movies + 7 shows
Phase 4 is only 0.5 less in total runtime than the last three phases combined.
That's crazy lol
And we still don’t know who the main bad guy is gonna be
Almost all of Phase 1 apart from Iron Man 1 and Avengers was heavily criticized and Phase 2 was basically a 50/50 split, Phase 3 was probably the most critically acclaimed but even it got some criticism for rehashing the best parts of Phase 1 and 2. The biggest difference is Phase 4 seems to be the first time since Avengers 1 that the majority of context has garnered rather lackluster reviews and I think it’s fair to say that a lot of that has been due to the over abundance of content that barely stands on its own yet also has had zero affect on the greater MCU.
Maybe we’ll look back on this era fondly for laying groundwork for great stuff like with Phase 1, but there’s also the issue that Phase 4 alone already has so much content that it’s going to be hard to find time to rewatch even if everyone loved it.
Heck diehards don’t take it well even when you did point out problems during phase 3.
I remember getting massively downvoted and called a hater/problem creater for pointing out how bad Banner in the hulkbuster cgi was.
No bro don't you know you're just supposed to give them an unconditional pass so they never need to consider any constructive criticism?
I had to tell a friend of mine I'm taking a break from the MCU for a bit because of the oversaturation and also because he won't stop messaging me about it. That means I'm not watching She-Hulk on a weekly basis and I'm going to wait till the reviews come out for each movie from now on before I decide if I want to see it in theaters or wait for streaming.
I think the main difference are the people who troll about how much they didn't like something, saying things like "Trash 💩" and nothing else, and the people who express more thought out criticisms of what disappointed them and/or how they felt it could have been better.
Unfortunately I usually see more of the trolling behavior than the people who actually have criticisms when it comes to online discussion. I also wonder why people voluntarily go to places on the internet obviously intended for people who enjoy it, like this subreddit, to troll in the comments. If you're not here to actually discuss what you didn't like, why waste your energy on it?
This is the important thing to remember, well said. No one worth talking to actually thinks the MCU shouldn't be criticized. It's more about how you criticize. There's a difference between constructive criticism and toxic criticism.
For example; I've seen many comments about Thor 4 that articulate what worked and what didn't. And I agree with many of those comments. But then I also see "Thor 4 was dogshit, what a "nothing movie", waste of my fucking time". That is useless commentary, better saved for talking shit with your friends, not blasting across social media among fans as if your opinion is better than theirs.
Just yesterday I saw a comment in a Marvel-specific sub get over 60 upvotes, stating that anyone who enjoyed any of the humor in Thor 4 has to be literally under 10yo or actually stupid. That's a shitty way to be, and that kind of stuff didn't use to get upvoted so much. Unfortunately, I think some of these communities are just in a weird/crappy phase right now.
Thor 4 has great scenes. The cinematography of that black and white fight was incredible, I felt like I was watching a comic book. One from Alex Ross that looks like a painting. But the movie isn't very good. They didn't have time to develop the characters, the jokes felt flat, and the editing was weird - for lack of a better term, the cuts were out of nowhere, in my opinion.
If they had given us enough time to digest everything that happens in the movie, I'd be happy, but what we got felt like the studio just wanted to make another movie as fast as possible. That is also my problem with Marvel as a whole right now: we don't have time to digest what happens during Phase 4 and the creative team doesn't have time to develop their projects more.
Marvel has become fast food. Sure, most people like McDonald's, but I don't want it to be the entirety of my diet. These comments about how Phase 4 suck probably want something more. Back in Phase 1, Marvel was new. Marvel was fine dining. It isn't anymore and that's okay! Maybe we'll get more gourmet Marvel or maybe we won't, who's to say? I just wish they'd stop putting out so many things all the time. Do a great movie instead of fifteen okay movies, tv shows, spin-offs, etc.
(Also, that's probably just me, but I'm from a small town and the only movies that get to the cinema here are Marvel ones. So that kind of pisses me off a little bit. I wanted to watch Everything, Everywhere, All At once and couldn't because we only had Multiverse of Madness. Elvis? Nope, but if I want to watch Thor a third time, I'm more than welcome. I don't know if it's nostalgia or something, but I feel like we had more choice of movies before.)
Sorry for hijacking your comment, guess I had a lot of things to get out of my chest.
Agreed- critiques that talk about how a joke was misplaced or the writing did not establish x about a character well or the CGI was glaringly obvious, those I have no issues with. Critiques like, "Captain Marvel never smiles" and "even Marvel is woke now, with making a show about a Muslim girl", those I find to be super dumb.
It's fine to not like something. It didn't work for you, and that's okay. Every piece of media is not meant for everyone. But saying basically that piece of media is dumb and everyone should hate it? That is dumb.
I get what you’re saying with this but this is an incomplete analogy. You’re allowed to leave respectful positive or negative reviews for a restaurant, and should not have to feel crucified for either viewpoint. This meme just assumes every negative reviewer is being a dick. Also, you can’t avoid what you don’t like if you haven’t tried it yet.
I feel like this is just saying “if you didn’t like it, don’t share your opinion because if you have nothing good to say don’t say anything at all”.
You're also forgetting to add that some movies/shows are "required viewing" for future ones, especially any big teamups there will be in the future. It's like the chef saying "yeah you can order the steak, but I won't season it unless you've had the curry, the chips and the haggis"
"Here's the pizza you ordered. This one doesn't have any dough, just sauce and cheese baked in a pan. You needed to order the dough special last week to get the full pizza experience. Enjoy! And don't even think about leaving a bad review.."
I feel like one of the reasons most of the entries this phase have felt so self-contained is that they're trying to get away from that, though. Like, yes Ms. Marvel will be in The Marvels, but I don't think the story is going to be a continuation of Ms. Marvel. If you've seen it, you'll have a better understanding of who she is and whatnot but it likely won't be required viewing. Similar to Wandavision and MoM. It may have felt a bit wierd seeing an evil Wanda for people who didn't watch Wandavision, but they still took time to explain that she's got the Darkhold and has been corrupted by it.
nah. WV is definitely required viewing for MoM. The main conflict literally revolves around her kids and you need to watch WV to fully understand who they are and why she's so desperate to get them back.
If Marvel is a restaurant then they’ve made the mistake of adding way too many items to their menu. You get the variety, sure, but now instead of a few high quality dishes you’re getting an abundance of “meh”.
And they also won't fully cook and season a meal unless you've had the 12 menu items before it first.
THANKS. This is ehat is happening. In order to increase the quantity, they have reduced the quality. And that's what people are complaining
Your new menu sucks
It’s so agitating seeing like 45 post a day about how “Thor 4 was amazing, people are dumb” or “If you don’t like MOM your not a MCU fan” or “People who hate Ms. Marvel are morons”
I thought I’d have to deal post bashing MCU content but these aggressively positive posts are the absolute worst. I’d rather deal with negative criticism.
You are allowed to like something other people don’t. You don’t have to scream on the internet trying to get everyone to like the thing you like. I dont get the need to attack anybody who did t enjoy the entertainment you did.
Man. I had some people COME for me in my inbox over the fact that I said MoM was just a Sam Raimi film imo. All his movies have the same things with acting. Out of place lines, wooden deliveries and way too many closeups.
Take that back you son of a bitch!!
Kidding. That’s the thing though right? I totally disagree with you and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest because I’m gonna watch MOM a few dozen more times and you’re not. Our opinions do not effect each other in the slightest. Why do some people feel the need to jam their opposing opinion down your throat? I’m not compelled at all to try and change your mind but some people just can handle knowing there is someone out their that doesn’t agree with them about a super hero movie. I don’t understand it.
I've seen more fanboy defenses of MCU content than I've seen actual criticisms of MCU content. They're reacting to a force that doesn't exist.
I get your point on not being a dick but this is honestly a terrible analogy. Marvel's whole business model is to make sure everyone "orders everything on the menu." They want you to go to see every movie and they want you to go subscribe to disney+ so you don't miss anything. But instead of the restaurant taking their time to try and perfect their dish one at a time, they're trying to make as many different dishes they can to suit everyone's tastes buds all at once.
For the whole cinematic universe thing to work you either the individual items strong enough that someone feels it is worthwhile to see them all, or you make it so people can skip the stuff that doesn't appeal to them without being lost going forward. Marvel's refusal to do the latter means that it all hinges on quality and as soon as the quality slips just like in Phase 2 the viewers start to lose interest.
The cynic in me says Marvel knew full well that the name Multiverse of Madness would make people think the film was some integral part of Phase 4, and people went to see it on that basis and unsurprisingly some were left disappointed when it was just a movie.
Fuck these posts are getting tiresome. It’s ok if a franchise makes a shit movie and you still enjoyed it and it’s equally ok to call it out for the shit parts cause you shouldn’t let them get away with being lazy.
Seriously. There’s more discussion about peoples’ opinions of the movies than about the movies themselves.
No one even talks negatively about the movie/shows beyond the first week on here, they go on twitter looking for the hate.
r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers is much better for actual discussion. Went to see Thor on Sunday and came here for the megathread after. It was mostly just positive comments so I went to the spoiler sub instead and the discussion was far more varied.
These people posting all the aggressively positive posts fail to realize that we all sub here because we're fans of the MCU. The fact that some of us are criticizing it just shows that Marvel has been letting us down.
You don’t understand this subreddit. They will pass off any real criticism as, “you’re holding them to too high a standard,” as if that somehow doesn’t just scream zero self-awareness.
This sub has become terrible. Like really, really bad. I'm out.
It’s also ok to just say “the movie was just ok”. Not everything has to be the greatest or worst thing ever.
That’s definitely something that’s gotten worse the past few years. Nothing can just be good anymore. I see it in music a lot, if it’s not the greatest or instant classic it gets dismissed by a lot of people online. “Mid” is one of the biggest insults right now, but a “mid” project can still be good imo.
Most insecure fanbase out there
Have you even met Star Wars fans?!
Well luckily Disney owns them now too
Star Wars fans are usually not so defensive. It's probably the most critical fanbase these days. Whether it's big or small.
Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
They're defensive about the ones they like. I made the mistake of saying I disliked the prequels, even 3, and had a barrage of negative replies
Yeah, I don't get the sudden love for those movies. I remember when liking the prequels were considered a sin, and they "killed Star Wars"...
I know memes and nostalgia has a lot to do with it. But yeah, they're far from any masterpiece certain people claim them to be.
So still not the most insecure fanbase, but probably one of the most toxic ones.
I think the people that grew up watching the OT didn’t like the prequels, but we’re at a point now where the people who grew up watching the prequels are at an age where they actually voice their opinions and the internet has blown that up even more.
I feel like the same might happen with the sequel trilogy several years from now.
Nope, SW fans hate the content, and hate the fans, they hate the fans that hate it and hate the fans that like it
MCU fans are like "guys pls, don't say bad things about it pls"
Star Wars fans hate everything Star Wars. MCU fans think they are Godfather level movies/shows and freak out if anyone says anything negative. They are different types of insecure
The need to defend what is quite literally the biggest movie franchise of all time is hilarious
That’s what happens when you tie your self worth/identify to a success of a Cinemaric Universe.
“Um excuse me, my steak tastes a little off.”
“Yeah in order to really understand or appreciate the steak, you first have to eat the bread, the salad, the spam sandwich, the soup, the crackers, the anchovies, and a few of the dishes from completely different restaurants. Otherwise, yeah the steak will kind of suck.”
I’m not trying to be a dick but if I ordered a wagyu steak and the chef butchered it by cooking it well done I’m going to review it like how it is, trash 🗑
[It's ok to not like things...](https://youtu.be/0la5DBtOVNI)
In the beginning Marvel was flashy, new, and creative - even though I disliked some dishes, the specials were consistently bold and flavorful.
However, more and more it's just been bland, a rehash of the same successful dishes as before - as if it's clinging to the past. Of course, a hot meal will always be tasteful, but I do earnestly hope they recapture the fire and zest they once did.
“I’m sorry sir but in order to have this desert, you must order these 3 appetizers and 2 main courses. Oh and you may also need to watch some YouTube videos on the dish as well to enjoy it”
Go to r/marvelstudios for the "apologists"
Go to r/marvelstudiosspoilers for the "haters"
Mix them together and you have somewhat the truth
Love and Thunder was fun, but awful
I didn't like 'Love & Thunder' all that much, but I'm not taking it personal if others liked it.
After the last few years, my outlook has been "If someone got something out of a movie they liked and I didn't, fine. That doesn't mean I have to like the film."
Most of these people who create posts like this feel like Marvel is who they are. Any attack or potental down fall will take a piece of them down.
Like a rock metal band in the 80s. Fans want them to live on forever, even if they produce shit music. Or they change their style because they keep playing the same songs over and over again and get shit on by same fans.
Marvel just has to keep figuring it out to keep this ride going. But fans have to call them out when its bad and give them a chance to fix it. If they don't, well, it means they don't care, so why should I.
Always two there are. No more, no less.
But in the restaurant you kinda need to have every dish to enjoy and understand the others
My mom loves Spider-Man and has watched all the Maguire and Garfield movies. But she won’t watch any of the Holland movies because there is so much context and so many references that she won’t get.
Understandable.The first 10 minutes of Homecoming is very heavily rooted in other MCU films, and to someone who hasn't watched them it's not a very good start to the movie.
I agree with you in general, however I would like to say that Thor has been my favourite character since his introduction (to the MCU). I even quite enjoyed The Dark World (though not that much, I’ll be honest). Ragnarok was pretty much the perfect Thor film for me, which is why I felt so disappointed after seeing Love and Thunder.
Imagine I had a favourite restaurant, served a delicious burger. The perfect burger. I then go back one day and find that they’ve changed the recipe and it tastes awful (to me).
Although I don’t have to eat it, I’m still left feeling as though I had lost something that I loved.
Hey posts like these are not an explanation or excuse for shitty movies
I agree OP we should all CONSUME PRODUCT
Hey, it’s fun to share opinions here! Like I didn’t like Shang Chi AT ALL. I’ll never go to battle against anyone for their taste, however.
This is a dumb fucking take. You cant just "not order" something and "order" something else because the MCU is a connected universe and every movie / show builds upon the previous one.
The reason why it doesnt seem to be an issue right now is that Phase 4 is only the beginning, they are introducing new characters so ofcourse they feel disjointed right now. In the future though, you will have to watch everything.
This is such a poor analogy.
You don’t need to order every dish to know what’s going on in the restaurant, but you sure as heck need to watch every Marvel movie to know what is happening.
Also, even when I order my favorite dish in a restaurant and it is undercooked or missing an ingredient, odds are I’m not going to be happy with it.
If we’re doing this analogy, marvel was a 5 star restaurant, now it has new staff lost its best cooks and the food isn’t as good.
You know the last couple of projects have sucked when people have to defend them like this
Do they expect Kevin Feige to personally give them a medal?
# And don't be a dick to the other patrons who don't like the dishes that you like and vice-versa.
But like, it's a restaurant where you gotta eat certain dishes to understand others or you risk some of the dishes you could've liked will stop making sense.
Cool, Love and Thunder still sucked though
A restaurant can also have bad dishes. It's not like every dish is automatically good whether you like it or not
But when you order something you really like and it is not so good when you get it, it is disappointing.
Spareribs are great in general, but sometimes they just don't taste so good. And when that happens I don't just think: oh no, 20€ down the drain, but the entire evening can suffer from it
I did not expect to like ms.Marvel, and I did not like it. Who cares? Not gonna watch it again.
I love dr.strange and Thor, I watched all solo movies at least 3 times and I think I will see them all at least antoher 2 times in the next 3 years.
I hoped for yet another great movie with both.
Both were underwhelming. But still nice. I just don't see myself watching it for a third time (or even more).
Wow how deep
This analogy is so dumb. If we are equating MCU content to a dish in a restaurant, then that restaurant has a menu that changes every month, each dish is more expensive with worse quality ingredients than the last, and the owners could give less of a shit if you liked the food or not. As long as the restaurant is profiting and the suckers keep coming back, then they are happy.
If MCU was a restaurant it would be a shitty Taco Bell.
You gotta love metaphors that clearly were not thought out too well. I suppose no one should be able to complain about poor representation (or no representation) in film then? After all, if that sort of thing bothers them, then clearly the films just weren't made for them, and they should bugger off and not worry about it. And of course, I bet you don't think this should apply the other way? That it's perfectly okay for people to go to a restaurant, eat something they think is the best thing ever (they actually unquestionably think everything is good) and then scream at people who don't like it telling they're somehow wrong about their own feelings.
If Marvel expects its viewers to consume every dish, you better believe that criticism is appropriate. I disagree with this illustration.
People need to just learn to grow up and like what they like, and understand it's not for everyone. There are so many people cry for validation to make sure the things they like are good.
It reminds of when a youtuber was like the pixel phone isn't for me. Then you had bunch of people saying " I knew it, iPhone is so much better, Android sucks" without realizing the youtuber actually just swapped to a different Android phone. Same with Game reviews or movie reviews. People can't be seen liking a "bad" movie, so they need to make sure everyone else likes/hates it as much as they do.
I’m just worried I have to eat one dish to understand the flavour of this newer and bigger dish. That’s all I get meh about.
People are just too sensitive.
I think there are myriad number of valid complaints you can pinpoint, and sharing those views is not trolling or being unfair. What fosters great conversation is us with civility discussing how we feel about the content that exists, with proper decorum and respect.
There are people who like the dishes and can talk about it with people who don't like the dishes and it's a very thoughtful discussion.
Then you find someone with the opposite opinion that is very condescending and immature towards you, which makes you defensive.
Then a respectful person with the opposite opinion sees you being defensive, and because the condescending, immature person held their same opinion, they also get defensive.
And now you have a post like this, where suddenly everyone is being attacked for liking or disliking something while at the same time everyone is claiming you're actually ONLY attacked for having the opinion they do.
>And don’t be a dick to the staff.
Perhaps the most important part.
This has to be the stupidest take on this sub.
Marvel fans have gotten awfully defense since this new phase started.
This statement only works on people who aren't complete jerks in restaurants, of course. I assume there's a reasonably overlapped venn diagram of people who complain endlessly about how the MCU has been ruined and people who come into my pub and demand items that haven't been on the menu for three years, stay 15 minutes past closing time and then stiff the staff on a tip.
Yeah, but if hundreds of people are telling you your pasta is shit...your pasta is shit....
Well... the Marvel restaurant has been doing a shit job at cooking for a while. Sure, every once in a while a good 'meal' comes out, but I miss the 'meals' that were delicious like Winter Soldier and Infinity War. I'm not going back to this restaurant until they update their menu, REDUCE THE QUANTITY OF OPTIONS, AND RAISE THE QUALITY!!!!
Ok, but anyone who doesn’t like spotted dick is sexist.
Imagine a steak house. Not always the best steak house, not always the most popular. In fact this steak house has had some hard times. But this steak house has some die hard followers who stuck with it threw thick and thin and kept it afloat with their loyalty.
Now the steak house is doing really well, the most popular restaurant around. And the steak house starts cooking vegan food because that’s the current fad. The loyal steak eating customers are put out by this and they want to know what’s happened to the steak.
They are moaned at by the vegans for not being inclusive and and one of the new headlining chefs makes a big statement about “this food wasn’t made for meat eaters” despite the fact she wouldn’t have a job if it wasn’t for the steak fans
Steak fans start leaving and then they are abused for no longer supporting the restaurant even though it’s no longer aimed at them
Disheartened but still hopeful the steak eaters go in search for a new steak restaurant but deep down worry that if it’s popular the fucking vegans will take it over too
Yeah I guess I'm just that person that eats anything
It's not so much a conventional restaurant but rather one of those sushi places where you just eat whatever the chef wants to serve you
This is pure organic straight from the source nonsense. It's so dumb it makes my brain itch.
This is cringe
recently this restaurant lost a star
except the dishes affect one another. what happens in one dish can ruin another dish that i like. this is a shit analogy
You just crossed out Star Wars from the original tweet and assumed the metaphor would still work when it’s 2 very different scenarios. With Star Wars the story is not chronological, if you don’t like something you have both prequels and sequels to that story that you might like that don’t have to be fully connected. Yeah the core moves + like 5/6 TV arcs tell a singular narrative, but that’s it. With marvel, almost everything is mandatory. If you don’t like it tough luck, you’ve gotta sit through it.
Dude, marvel is a comic company which started making movies a while back...
lol this is so stupid
This is dumb. Everything is so tied together now that if you don’t see everything you risk being confused about what’s going on.
Not entirely accurate. Saying that it's a restaurant, would imply that I can go to it and order for example Iron Man (2008) everytime I go because I like it, ignoring everything else on the menu. But I don't go to the theaters to watch the same thing I liked the last time.
We go to theaters to try out new dishes because that's the only thing they serve, no classics. And if each new dish provides an underwhelming experience, then I'm not gonna go to theaters. I got Iron Man (2008) at home.
This is not reflecting how I feel currently about the MCU, just pointing out the issues with this analogy.
What is it with this utterly bizarre desire to protect a billion-dollar corporation from criticism? Stop trying to stand up for Disney, they don’t need you to do that; they have PR employees that make 10x what I make in a year purely dedicated to protecting the brand.
I happen to love everything on the menu. Except Inhumans. Too chalky for my taste.
I feel like Banner-Hulk just handed me a taco.
This is a bad analogy because when the restaurant opened as a chain you actually had to try each entree in order to fully enjoy the meal. Sure you could skip desert, but if you skip a few meals you're gonna have no clue why there are eggs in your mashed potatoes.
Nah. This doesn’t work for Star Wars either.
My main thing is I could see the potential if they made adjustments. Marvel needs to make some in game adjustments to make sure the quality is there so people don’t feel like theirs an over saturation. Who thought it was a good idea to dilute the God Butcher. How did anyone not say hey maybe we should have more God butchering.
Lately though, they’ve been focusing on too many new dishes instead of bringing the same consistent quality to what they have, and the quality of the new things has been suffering because of that
I can’t wait for somebody’s post in 7 years with the title “man Thor 4 was really under appreciated”. This movie’s discourse reminds me a lot of AoU. The crazy part it was way less bloated than AoE and the implications of Eternity, the statues in that room, and Omnipotent City…the future is looking more nuts than anything post Endgame. Starting to think the pendulum has swung and majority of the fans now haven’t even touched a comic (before you get mad, not a bad thing btw). Which would be wild.
Criticism is good if it's constructive, but yes, it can veer towards the toxic in many cases. It's not cool to insult the people working on it etc.
At the same time however, toxic positivity can also be an unhealthy thing when viewing media properties from mega conglomerates with a gdp bigger than a small country.
We should be able to critique these films objectively(whether positive or negative), regardless if they are part of a popular/famous franchise.
As long as dish isn't spoiled...
Big up to the legend that is [Rahul Kohli](https://instagram.com/rahulkohli13?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) for giving us the original quote here in relation to Star Wars