T O P

What people aren’t factoring into the ending:

What people aren’t factoring into the ending:

dzz07

I was just happy Charlie got his wings!


HengroenAndLlamrei

That fist pump!


haloryder

Both Linda and Amenagod’s reactions to that were goddamn hilarious


Ketanjoshi

The Amenagod's reaction did not make sense since he is god he is all the omnis so he should already know that would happen. Unless he chose not to know things about his sons life


LEGOK2SO

Knowing him he made himself not know certain things like how his sons life will go


untakentakenusername

That was the cutest thing in the world and they were such fluffy cute baby feathers i couldn't deal


rodrigo169

if you think about it he is god's child, so if he hadn't got wings it was because they would be a retirement for him.


HappyInNature

I agree with you 100%. The ending hit for me perfectly with respect to themes and character development. Did Trixie love Lucifer? Sure, but he wasn't even a constant in her life. Dan was the one that she was broken over and with good reason. She would have been open to Lucifer being her step-dad and I'm sure she would have been sad, even a little angry over his most recent departure but she wouldn't have been destroyed like the death of her father.


HengroenAndLlamrei

Exactly. IIRC, she never once called Lucifer dad. She asked her mom when they’d get married, but never once in my memory brought up him being her father. I got the distinct impression she viewed him as her mom’s boyfriend/a cool uncle/maybe a step-dad kinda figure. She even calls him her friend multiple times. And Lucifer I never felt tried to step into the role of her father. Dan was unequivocally her father and even after his death, I didn’t get he sense she was looking for a new stand-in. She even had a whole speech about how Dan was her role model. She lost him young, but not super super young. She’s a pre-teen. She had a whole childhood with the man who was very much involved and present. Lucifer was just a co-worker, then a friend, then her mom’s boyfriend in her lifetime up to this point.


LorienTheFirstOne

After two father figures leave her back to back very few children wouldn't end up with a complex.


HappyInNature

He wasn't a father figure to her.


LorienTheFirstOne

Right, even she knew him and mommy were headed for marriage. And his running away wouldn't at all look to a child like he ran away from her.


gpgc_kitkat

Just because someone marries your mom, doesn't automatically make him a father figure, but I otherwise agree with what you're saying honestly. Trixie is strong though. She's very strong and smart.


mcaira

Lucifer was Trixie's friend/cool uncle, exactly like Maze. Dan is Trixie's father, a man always present until he died fighting for justice. And when he died she was like 12 13, not adult, but definitely not a child. She didn't need a new father, stepfathers are important, but not everyone need one, especially not a pre teen that always had an already amazing father. Honestly it would be kinda disrespectful if Lucifer started playing daddy and tried to replace Dan. Besides, Rory mentioned that Chloe raised her daughterS alone, which means no one abandoned Trixie and they had to tell her the truth at a certain point, seeing that Charlie and Rory aren't aging and that Rory as a child started popping off wings without control, like Charlie did. So she eventually knew that her father was up there waiting and Lucifer busy in a very important job.


KnightRider1987

I agree with you but that didn’t stop the absolutely absurd amount of ugly crying when I realized Lucifer was going to have to do the thing he so badly didn’t want to do.


untakentakenusername

Yeah I just find that part unfair. I feel like it would have been better to show that either or both: A) he did in fact go back plenty of times and spent time with her as a baby or watched her from afar. Met Chloe and the others as well but everyone kept it as a secret from Rory as an agreement. They would reveal it after she returns from the past that she was actually watched over. Its just not fair that he didn't get time on earth with everyone. B) and this, rory attends funeral.. and then flies up, for us to see her join everyone of them (humans and celestials) attending a lunch get together spending time together. And at the very end we see Chloe and lucy pop down for a shift in Hell to do their job, keeping the last scene somewhat in tact. These guys just always went through too much. I just wanted to see them spend more time together even if it was to be in the after life. I know its up to us to imagine that is canon but scenes like the above would have been greatly satisfying while keeping the silly time loop in tact too. It would have just needed an extra 5 or 6 mins to fit both these scenes in


hic_erro

I mean, there's no reason to assume A didn't happen. There were presumably sleepovers at Aunt Maze's, etc, where Chloe and Lucifer could safely spend a weekend in the Poconos.


untakentakenusername

Yeah but idk they never showed us any hints. It feels like canonically, chloe went her whole life never seeing him. I imagine A and B happen but even a lil hint of it being displayed in the show would have been nice/eased my heart. Like if we saw lucifer outside the window when chloe came back home from giving birth n anyone seeing him, it could leave way to understand that he was still...there.


nikk_nack

I was honestly surprised that didn't happen especially just after the birthday scene. It was almost deliberately saying, "not gonna happen, guys."


untakentakenusername

Yeah. Like he busts through the door and says "well she wont remember these early years hahahaha" or wears a mask idk. Anything. I guess it didnt end BADLY like many other shows did but...just the inbetween time i wish i was kinder to Chloe and lucifer


Julius-Light

And here I was thinking that Lucifer becoming God was theologically ambitious. Lucifer choosing to not become God took it one step further. And Lucifer saving the souls of Hell - a precept that biblically is nonexistent, souls that go to Hell stay there for eternity - is even further than that. Just really, really impressed on the narrative level and seeing Lucifer open that door, say "Detective!" and it's Chloe, well, what a way to celebrate the finale.


JGOOD1618

I agree, I think a lot of people are just assuming he left her and Rory but like lucifer always goes on about, 40 years or so is nothing in his lifespan. I just wish we got to see a bit more of a reunion at the end. Linda and Ella would have eventually ended up in heaven as well so we could have seen them all together in heaven as well as chloes parents etc. Would have been nice and probably would have made a lot more people feel better about the ending.


HengroenAndLlamrei

Yeah it would have been cool to see Decker Sr again, Penelope, etc. But getting so many cast members back was probably logistically not feasible. And I would have enjoyed a reunion scene between Rory and Luc.


JGOOD1618

I imagine lucifer and Chloe, Dan and Charlotte, eve and maze on a triple date in heaven


[deleted]

[удалено]


HengroenAndLlamrei

Agreed. I also wished for FF and also MrSaidOutBitch, but I imagine there were scheduling difficulties. It’s amazing they got Trisha back. At first I thought we wouldn’t see her face and they were using a body double to ‘show’ her. I was so happy when they panned around and it was really her! And FF got a shout out on the to do list which was a nice touch. Also, I loled when reading Ella’s list and she had Dan listed as a possible centaur XD XD


Icee_Gaming_on_YT

Even tho we didn’t SEE Father frank and Mr. SaidOutBitch. The show didn’t forget about them. Throughout S6 they talked abt Mr. SaidOutBitch’s Journey from hell to heaven and was one of the reasons Lucifer found his calling. And as of father frank. Last we saw him. Lucifer was hurt that even tho he followed Gods rules. He still died. Many seasons later. We see Lucifer still cares by writing “Check up on Father Frank” on his to-do list.


Mackaroni99

Damn, Where do we se "check up on father Frank"? I totally missed that.


AdriMtz27

It’s towards the end of the season I believe episode 8 or 9. When it’s the morning on August 4th and Lucifer is dancing around his penthouse and crosses off “becomes God” on the list. The list had some funny things on it like “Start calling Dan Casper” and “convince Chloe to do Golden Gate” (or something along those lines, I don’t remember the exact wording)


Mackaroni99

Oh okay.


Ishouldcalltlc

They got mentioned more than poor Yrixie.


Lucifer_Crowe

Seeing Tricia Helfer made my day. Charlotte's reaction to PuddingPlus after she held people hostage there was priceless too.


Icee_Gaming_on_YT

I agree with the OP. Everyone got the good ending for an eternity. And everything OG God did fit perfectly and filled in any questions or plot holes. Idgaf what anyone says. It’s a perfect ending to a perfect show. I mean sure. Trixie never found out about the divine but other than that. I think it was very well handled. I’ve seen really good shows have stupid endings. Every character felt like they mattered and got the happy ending. And The season had like a thanks for watching vibe. But in a good way. They hit on all the memorable moments from past seasons. Like the first words Chloe and Lucifer said to eachother. Playing heart and soul on the piano. Or dan eating pudding in heaven with Charlotte eating waffles. Truly the ending I think the show deserved.


qz3_

nothing happens with dan, carol and ella dont do anything, lucifer cant talk to rory but ammenadiel can talk to charlie, charlotte richards ???, father frank ???, adult trixie ???, lee ???,


Icee_Gaming_on_YT

You and I watched VERY different episodes. Watch episode 10 again. Dan and Charlotte are finally together again. She was eating waffles and he was eating pudding. The pudding is sumthin season 1-2 Dan ate. A lot. And the waffles is what Charlotte and Dan were eating together as a family before They died. Ella And Carol are together and ella learned that Not everything in her life is dark and hopeless. Plus she has a whole foundation to help young girl’s with the same thing she went through. Rory is an angel. She can go to hell to and fro. If she did it once. She can do it multiple times more. Amenadiel is God. He can be God and be Charlie’s dad at thr exact same time. Lucifer is just a regular old angel. We saw that Lee was in heaven and he made it from hell. He’s the reason Lucifer found his calling in the first place. The only thing you mentioned that I can agree with is trixie and father frank. But still. I’m not going to hate the season because we didn’t see what future trixie was up to or because we didn’t see father frank in heaven. We still saw sumthin with present trixie. She knows that Dan made mistakes but he’s still the best dad to her. We see her happy with Chloe and Rory. It’s like saying youre mad because we didnt see adult Charlie or Rory as a kid. And father frank is in heaven. even if father frank went to hell for whatever reason. We know that Luci and Chloe are gonna help him get to heaven. It’s not like the show doesn’t care. If you see lucifers to-do list. You’ll see “check up on father frank” was on it.


qz3_

the “check up on father frank” was exactly why i was pissed they didnt show him.


silvermember

Because getting the actor might not be possible? You do realize that the actor is active enough not to be available for a 2 sec cameo during s pandemic. Colman Domingo was most likely filming candy man. Remember these are actors, availability is extremely important. You do the best with what you have. Some of your complaints ignores this reality.


qz3_

it still pissed me off


silvermember

Well that is a very childish reaction and you should be assume. Just because a show is ending doesn't give you the right to behave like a child. seriously, what would Father Frank's actually appearance achieve in under a few shot? He was a 1 off character.


qz3_

i dont see how its childish to not like an already bad ending because a character that the main character had a strong connection with was otherwise left out


AnoviAlzak

I like the ending in general. Absolutely loved it after the first watch. Sadly, later I found few things that bugs me, and rewatching some bits didn't help. (Don't overthink it is good advice!) But I also understand that inventing a good ending for this show, couldn't be an easy task. I definitely don't think the writers did a bad job! In general, I would say I like the ending a lot, but I'm not 100% convinced by the way they got there. I still need to think about it.


m_m_m_j

I would have loved it if they came to the conclusion that Rury's concept of how the time loop works is not correct and that they can in fact change the timeline. It would only be a small change but it would make it feel much more satisfying. And by admitting that the characters don't completely understand all the details of the time travel themselfes would help making it more believable and more forgiving for nonsense explanations or nonsense arguments the characters give. (The characters have been portraited as fallable in other regards all along so it wouldn't be a far stretch)


AnoviAlzak

But it's not like they can't change the timeline. They don't *want to* because they don't want to change the outcome.


m_m_m_j

The outcome being that Lucifer realizes how he can help the souls in hell? He has an eternity to figure it out. Why is it important that he figures it out now rather than having him live a fulfilled mortal life and raise a child for the time being?


ToPerishTwice

One problem is, if Rory doesn't come back in time then Lucifer won't decide to tell everyone how he truly feels about them and won't give Dan the idea to go meet Trixie and he'll be trapped for _years_ on earth. Granted, he'd also not be on earth given Rory wouldn't be there to take him up, so he'd end up being trapped for millions of years in hell's purgatory. Potentially an even worse fate. He'd never ascend. Lucifer can take an eternity to figure out his purpose, but why wait? Why prolong the suffering of all the souls in Hell for the sake of his own selfishness? The sooner he realizes his purpose and calling in life, the sooner he can start helping souls find peace and ascend to Heaven.


teniaava

He already knows it too! Are we to believe that if Lucifer makes his daughter happy that his memory will be wiped and he'll forget what his job is? It's completely ridiculous.


ToPerishTwice

Yes, that's how paradoxes work.


hic_erro

Not just that -- they change the time loop and the Rory they have come to know and love "dies", replaced by another. Compare to the Flash's daughter who disappeared when the Flash didn't.


AnoviAlzak

I think it's way more that that. Look at it from Rory's point of view. First, yes she was angry that Lucifer left her, etc... but it obviously wasn't a damaging experience for her, cause she still has a loving mum and a lot of support around. Writers confirmed that she loved the person she was with the experience she has and didn't want to change that. Then she jumped back to the past, met Lucifer, and they bonded. She helped him and they created some nice memories together. She helped him to find his calling, thanks to her he told Maze what she means to him, thanks to her he was able to give the right advice to Dan. And now, with all of that Rory knows that after she comes back, she can spend the rest of eternity with her parents, with all of those memories in her mind, and knowing how much she helped her dad. But if anything was changed, all of that would be erased and her whole life experience would be completely different. I think it makes sense that she didn't want everything that happened and all her life experience to be undone. That's why she begged Lucifer to not change anything. He and Chloe did it that way for her. So character's motivations make sense. If something, I don't like that Lucifer had to leave his daughter because... *he left his daughter*. That feels like cheating! I'm not a fan of explaining all of that by the time loop, I wish they found the less abstract reason to do it.


Dirty-anal-weebo

I could have easily come up with a better ending. Simple the apocalypse is real because he’ll needs a ruler and heaven needs a god, they find out that celestial beings of their power cannot be on earth for too long or else it does damage to the universe. Everything else still stays the same, maybe include more trixie but that’s about it


Voice_of_Season

But you can’t get back those early years. All they had to do was have him watch from afar (maybe from a magic mirror or make himself invisible) or send Chloe a note once in awhile from Amenadiel. (We don’t even have to see what is on the note.) Sidenote: I mostly have come to terms with the ending except for the part I mentioned). Even the producers said that they thought that would happen but they didn’t show it. ☹️


I_Luv_Luci

I definitely think Amenadiel acted as a messenger for Chloe and Lucifer in those years. This is how he was so confident that when she died, "home" would be with Lucifer and Lucifer would be ready to reunite with her whenever she arrived. Notice there wasn't even a discussion or a hesitation.


Littlefoodt

I think so too. Why wouldn't they? And also, why would Chloe still like and smile at when seeing Amenadiel? I'd be pretty pissed with my "inlaws" if they wouldn't even care to play the occasional mail man for me.


Lolalolita1234

Why only a note? Amenadial could easily have facilitated secret meetings between them.


ToPerishTwice

I mean, they don't need Amenadiel to do that. Lucifer can still leave hell, he just can't meet Rory so she still hates him. He could totally have a rendezvous with Chloe and she just gets a sitter or leaves Rory with Linda, her mom or someone while she's on a weekend vacation or something.


zoemi

I think I would have been okay with this ending if it had taken maybe one or two years forward, with Rory showing up after she was already born. Those are things Lucifer will never get to experience unless they can somehow have more angel babies in the afterlife. Edit: okay WITH this ending, not without


Voice_of_Season

It would be even more anguish because he would then have to kiss his baby girl goodbye. Like he has already formed an attachment and loves her and then an older version of her comes in and we continue the basic premise of denial that he willfully abandoned them.


Duckman896

I actually hate how many people are saying "it's just 40 years, that's like nothing to them", no it's still 40 years. Just because they have an eternity in the afterlife doesn't mean it's not still 40 years of time, it isn't moving any faster. Lucifer and Chloe had only known eachother for 5-6 years on Earth, (Lucifer spent a lot more time in hell between s4-s5) and to spend the next 40 years apart is ridiculous. He is going to miss all of the rest of her mortal life, and all of the growing up of his daughter, as well as seeing all of his other friends on earth gone. Linda, Ella, Eve, and Trixie are all going to die without seeing Lucifer again. Maze and Amenadiel are immortal but they will also not see him for years and years. I think they very easily could have had him doing the Hell job as a couple times a week thing. A day on Earth is like 15 years in hell, so I don't see why he could spend 6/7 days of the week on earth and then one day a week in hell (which would be him spending 15 years helping souls). There wasn't any actual time pressure or reasonsing that he had to be stuck there, they fabricated it to make people upset. And before someone says "he had to be there so that Rory would travel back in time" that's just lazy writing, making the time travel paradox just forces the characters to have to do things that don't make sense.


pastelcower

I totally agree, and now I hate the word "blip". Just saying "it's a blip to them" doesn't yada yada away 40 years/thousands of years of seperation, or lying to a child, to purposefully make them miserable, so they hate their parent enough to want to kill them.


apptthrowaway2

Thank you. This is why the ending does not make sense. It's a horrible ending.


Icee_Gaming_on_YT

I don’t think the time travel part is lazy writing. The time where Rory is from. Luci just left with no explanation before she was born. She was so mad that she time traveled and learn that Lucifer loves her and would never choose to abandon her. And she would rather remember her “adventures” in the past with her parents than him just being there. So she made him promise. And if there’s ANYTHING Lucifer cares about. It’s his honesty. I don’t think it’s lazy writing at all. And trust me. I still watch the flash. I know lazy writing when I see it.


Duckman896

But think about it like this. She came back and spent weeks to a month or so with her parents and then said "stay in hell and abandon me again so things don't change". She only said that because thats what she knows. Why would she assume that if Lucifer did stay and actually have a family with her and Chloe that things would turn out worse and not better. If I was her I would have wanted him to be there throughout my childhood and with my mother the entire way through her life till her deathbed.


Voice_of_Season

I think they just weren’t careful enough with the details. Like having Trixie at the bedside, etc. The showrunners brought up ideas of Luci popping up to discretely peek in on their lives and send messages to Chloe is something that they TOLD us about after the fact (in an interview which not everyone will stumble upon) and did not SHOW us. They needed to show not tell.


Duckman896

>They needed to show not tell. This has been a common issue with the show since S3. There is a lot that viewers will never find out unless they diligently go through every interview and that is not how it should be. The biggest example of this is "Evil shall be released" from S4. The Showrunners confirmend after S4 that it was evil being released from Lucifer, but in 4x10 Lucifer still thought it was about demons coming to earth and that's one of the reasons he sited for going back to hell and leaving Chloe.


Voice_of_Season

I remember reading that interview. Why do they do this to us?


Duckman896

It is literally a constant that you have to read and watch all of the interviews, I'm still doing that now and trying to catch stuff that wasn't in the show.


Always_Confused_Dad

What would one type into the Google machine to find these interviews. I’d be curious to read/hear what they say about some of these issues people are bringing up. Anyone specific I should look at? Or just “Lucifer writer interview”/


Duckman896

So i'll give you the easy way and the hard way. The easy way is to join the discord (located on the sidebar and in the rules post pinned at the top of sub) and scroll down the text channel till you get to season 6 updates, where all of the interviews are being posted as they are coming up. hard way is to just start typing in "Lucifer Interview" to google twitter and youtube


Always_Confused_Dad

Beauty. Thanks.


Dear-Frosting5718

If the showrunners again,have to “explain” in a post mortem,clearly misstepped in the finished product we seen.


alderaans

gOD YEAH! This is such a great post. Someone else who got how the ending worked, thank goodness.


Alon945

I thought it was great


aevelys

time can't catch up, and if I had to spend 40 years of my life alone waiting for a saving death, raising a child alone and seeing it grow up in hatred, for chloe. or spend something like 70 million years in hell away from my family without being able to see them again as lucifer and throw away every important moment of their life. all to end eternity in hell, it would piss me off a lot.


calithetroll

I think it’s hard to conceptualize because we’re, well, mortal. People think that the years Chloe spent on Earth were the best, most special years because it’s all we really have so it’s special to *us*. But it’s just a blip to Chloe and Lucifer. I think they should have ran this point home a bit harder because it’s hard for the audience to understand.


GordoGabbles

We understand It just doesn’t work as a story telling device really


calithetroll

Genuinely asking- in what way does it not work?


silvermember

I think many people here are acting irrationally. They are sad that the show ended, so they find things to poke at it. There are very few shows that end with many people are satisfied.


GordoGabbles

Or it’s possible we for real don’t like how it ended 🤷‍♀️


silvermember

You are free to have your opinion but your opinion must actually make sense. You complain about the show being inconsistent with its themes but from when you look at it clearly, it is apparent you don't understand the theme. The show is consistent within itself. You should be more honest and say you hated the ending, because it isn't a 100% happy ending. We known for a while that it was bittersweet.


GordoGabbles

I don’t want a happy ending I want an ending that feels thematically pleasing. Also it HAD a happy ending. That was happy. Please google the definition of shit like “bittersweet”


GordoGabbles

Ignoring the unrelatability part which I do thing is a problem the biggest thing here is that it betrays the themes and messaging of the show that existed before the finale. Lucifer fighting destiny, becoming a better person, loving Chloe and wanting to be a good dad and not like his own father is his whole thing so “this is my calling” feels like Lucifer giving in, giving up with free will and just becoming his dad. Honestly I’m not upset it’s ended and I like endings, I just only really like good ones


zoemi

It's not a problem of understanding. There are life events that they will never be able to recreate.


CiferLu86

It was a satisfying ending, people should stop complaining and remember what happened to GOT.


KnightRider1987

People should also remember it was a shorter season than they designed it cause it’s hard to film in a pandemic.


HengroenAndLlamrei

Exactly. And while I think S4 could have been the show’s ending—albeit even more bittersweet—I’m glad it’s not. I don’t think S5 and S6 detracted from the show at all and offered a happier ending than S4 would have been. And let’s not forget we could have gotten S3 as an ending… For me S1 & S4 were peak and S5 and S6 don’t have the same rewatchability, but overall I think they did a banger job. Grateful Netflix let us have a conclusive ending instead of always wondering what if.


Glassworth

If you have to compare it to GOT to believe it was a good ending… was it really that good?


CiferLu86

It was pretty good and not a crazy train wreck at the end destroying entire characters in one episode.


Lyrawhite

Final season of GoT, and specially the last two epi ruined the show for me. Left me bitter about it. Same for the last epi of How I Met Your Mother. Lucifer's ending wasn't perfect for me, this final season. But it was fairly decent, and I would still rewatch the show from time to time. Unlike HIMYM, that the ending ruined the show for me. It could had gone a lot worse.


pinkclouds89

just because you thought it was satisfying doesn't mean everyone else does. Sorry you watch a lot of shitty shows, but I know quite a few with actual good endings...


sexyittechnician

It was an okay ending. I don't hate it but I don't love it. Btw, something can still be "bad" even if something was worse.


QuiJon70

I also think it ended well. I just dont get some of the complaints. Like the Lucifer ended up back in hell where he hated being. No he hated being banished to hell and not being able to go home. He hated his father for doing it to him. But the entire point of the end of this show was that Lucifer and his brothers and sisters with the new God were going to be changing things up in heaven. Lucifer took on a purpose to get people past their hell and into heaven rather then looking at hell as their eternal punishment and him being simply the tormentor. Also about Chloe, even before Lucifer goes to hell Chloe is telling him that she will not be going to heaven with him. She has decided to stay on earth and get her job back. So they at best were already going to be in a long distance relationship if lucifer became god. Though i agree that it might have been nice to see Lucifer like behind a tree watching Rory in a soccer game, or knowing that when at a slumber party Lucifer sneaks back up to spend time with chloe. But as you mention it is not needed. Yes Chloe lives her life but has her immortal eternity to spend with lucifer. And i am quite sure they dont spend all their time in hell.


Tiggermanns

Dude I love lucifer so much this show will never be topped by another and about season 6 some parts were not needed to an extent but overall I thought season 6 was chill


HengroenAndLlamrei

Yeah, I think chill is a good way to describe it. Perhaps that’s why some people feel disappointed. It didn’t have the intensity or theatrics of say S4. It was more of a gentle ride at tail of of an intense rollercoaster. And I’m good with that.


FantasticBlood0

I literally just finished the last episode and I am so not buying the whole thing. Very underwhelming, disappointing even. Maybe I need a bit of time to process but to me it didn’t feel like a season of Lucifer at all. The only highlight was Linda, frankly.


noneym86

I thought the show is about free will more than redemption, if not as much and they just tossed that out altogether.


HengroenAndLlamrei

I think free will was also a key theme, along with redemption. The time loop and God’s plan was included to show how yes we CHOOSE our fate and make our own choices, but someone like God knows what those choices will be and how they play out. He didn’t choose them for you, but he knows the end game of them. So fate is the inevitable outcome of the choices we ourselves make. I think it’s a pretty cool portrayal.


Zolgrave

>I think free will was also a key theme, along with redemption. The time loop and God’s plan was included to show how yes we CHOOSE our fate and make our own choices, but someone like God knows what those choices will be and how they play out. He didn’t choose them for you, but he knows the end game of them. So fate is the inevitable outcome of the choices we ourselves make. I think it’s a pretty cool portrayal. The time paradox contradicts & undermines this though. Young Rory only gets abandoned because her older adult self -- who has *accepted* her abandonment -- corners-asks Lucifer to leave Chloe & abandon young Rory. With no starting point, how does the *circular* loop of Rory's abandonment even quote-unquote 'come to be'? The answer is, the circular loop emerges fully formed (accepting adult Rory choosing her own young abandonment) along with the rest of the universe created by God. The unfortunate implications being, Rory always exist as simultaneously as a young abandoned child & as accepting adult.


madamemimicik

Yes and you just described Dan Espinoza: Naked and Afraid!


meltingpotato

Yeah I understand how Rory had to be raised without a father but Chloe not seeing luci all these years does not make sense. Also, no reason was given as to why Rory never just flied to hell and go see her father in her own time instead to getting so mad that she traveled back in time


HengroenAndLlamrei

I think most people assume (and the writers say this in interviews though it should have been explicitly said in the show) Luci and Chloe were able to keep in touch given their celestial friends/powers. As for Rory, the explanation was given that she asked Lucifer to remain absentee as he did the first time or else it could break the time loop and then he wouldn’t come to the same conclusion about his calling since she would never travel back in time due to her lack of anger. It’s a time paradox. It only happened because it already happened. It’s a complete circle with no end and no beginning.


Krennson

But we don't actually have any proof that time travel actually works that way. It's a huge assumption to make, with major life-altering consequences. and they didn't do one single thing to CHECK what would happen if they broke the time loop.


HengroenAndLlamrei

It was explained a few times. Rory repeatedly commented on how she had yet to fade from existence, evidence the loop was unbroken. Had they broken the time loop and Lucifer stuck a round, she would have faded from the present/past because she wouldn’t be mad at him for abandoning her, wouldn’t have time traveled, and he may never have reached his epiphany about his true purpose. It’s the devil you know vs the one you don’t. Changing things may have improved the future or may have made it significantly worse. Ultimately the Rory they met would cease to exist though and be replaced by the alternative version and the couldn’t bars to have that happen. This concept has been done in many different shows. One example being in the Flash/Arrow where Barry’s time traveling changed the gender of Diggle’s kid.


Krennson

Well, that's how Rory THOUGHT things would work. based on her exactly zero prior experiences in time travel. And of course, in the Lucifer universe, Angels have NEVER been wrong before about how their POWERS functioned.


HengroenAndLlamrei

It’s a moot point though. She COULD be correct. And the risk of being right and erasing that version of their future daughter from existence wasn’t worth it.


Krennson

I'm ok with that risk. especially if we have reason to believe that Rory's "Soul" is a reasonably constant entity, which remains largely the same regardless of which set of life experiences she recieves. Also, even if Lucifer is NOT ok with that risk, he still had at least 9 months to conduct an awful lot of research into determining how big of a risk it really was.


meltingpotato

yeah it should have been shown definitely. but even if people assume that part happened we still don't know why Rory didn't just fly down to hell to see his father all these years. should we also assume she was banned from doing so? even so, what teenager ever listens to their parents? and assuming Rory is like 50 or 60 years old in the show while looking 22, she had a LOT of years to act like a teenager celestial and fly to hell despite being told not to.


HengroenAndLlamrei

She probably did as soon as she got back. During the 50 or so years she grew up, Chloe never told her the truth so she didn’t know her dad was in Hell/where he was. And if she went looking for him he likely avoided her. Because of the time loop and her needing to stay angry enough to travel back in time to trigger all of it. As soon as she returned Chloe died. We can assume at that point Rory, now knowing the truth, visited her mom and dad in Hell and vice versa.


NotTheAbhi

A lot of people are saying that he could have popped up like he used to before. It's not possible. Earlier he had demons torture billions of souls and all he had to do was make sure everyone was in line. Now he guides them , helps the billions of soul to forgive their guilt and leave hell for the light. Only he has the ability to do that. It's like he said he knows how it is to fall and rise up again.


lomax1992

I genuinely felt they could have ended it with season 5 and people would be less pissed. To me it seems like the ended was rushed, kinda like the last 3 episodes were. What a lot of people aren't realising is Lucifer and Chloe spent what 6 years together tops? Then 40 years apart. I just feel like the ending was lazy and a bit of a cop out. And the whole time travel BS was poor, only a step ahead of "it was all a dream" that some shows or movies pull.


sexyittechnician

The ending would have worked Except I still feel like it contradicted season 5. A war was fought for Lucifer to become God and an angel is gone. I get sacrifice and all but I think that it was lazy how they just went the route of Lucifer questioning his choice again then Amandiel becoming God when this should have been how it went. To me, it's just obvious the writers already had a different end in mind. For me personally, if I forget most of season 5 existed, I think the ending was good.


HengroenAndLlamrei

I do get that, but I also think it makes sense as is. Lucifer is constantly thinking he wants something only to realize later he really wants something different. His desire to be God was also fueled by the threat of Michael. And Amenadiel is constantly repressing what he really wants because he thinks it’s selfish and he should be helping others actualize their dreams/be in service of others, so he does the opposite. It took awhile for him to admit he wanted to stay on earth originally. Admitting he wants to be God (especially when he’s a father to baby Charlie) is, like, the ultimate big thing to choose for yourself. He needed OTHERS to tell him he should do it because he could help others the best in the role. I think a lot of people work hard towards a dream job, get it, and realize they’d rather be a professional interpretive dancer or whatever. The dream job is more demanding, less fun, and/or not as good of a fit as they’d imagined. Lucifer wanted to be worthy more than anything for a long time. Getting chosen to be God—more than actually being God—was the ultimate show of worth. Once he got that, I think he realized what he actually wanted and was good at was a bit different.


SeriesofUnfortEvents

This is such a good interpretation that I had to take a screenshot. This show has been so cathartic for me that I felt like I had a breakthrough after the third time I watched it. Been wrestiling with giving up an old dream even though it's not finished, because I've realized I have other desires now. And my original dream came into being because other choices at the time may have hurt my family. I can totally relate to Lucifer's latest struggles. I did find myself hoping Lucifer managed to at least give Chloe 18 years of child support and pops back up to secretly see her and to observe Rory sometimes. It's sad he can't be with them.


sexyittechnician

Except I don't think he would have changed his mind this time. His sister died for that to happen only for him to change it again? I could let Amadiel's slide but not Lucifer's. At least not the way everything was handled. It's not a bad ending and I get why others may like it. I just think it wasn't supposed to be that way.


HengroenAndLlamrei

I don’t think he really cared all that much about his sister TBH. He was pretty broken up about Uriel, but not so much about his sis. Other than Amenadiel, I didn’t get the impression he cared deeply for any of his siblings. Arguably what broke him about Uriel’s death was that he was the one who did it and how total/permanent it was more so than the loss of a beloved brother. I think what drove him to want to be God was more about competition with and his extreme dislike of Michael as well as wanting to be worthy in the eyes of his father/everyone. I don’t think he had any real interest in the job itself other than his own ego thinking he could do it better.


Ishouldcalltlc

For me, the ending was fine. Except, if I remember, Lucifer told Chloe that they wouldn’t see each other because he wouldn’t be able to come back up. Even so, the story of him making the decision to go to Hell and Chloe would join him upon her death. Was fine. My objection to Season 6 was adding Rory to the group we’ve loved for years. Her storyline was stupid and felt totally rushed. I think it’s the worst decision they’ve ever made.


HengroenAndLlamrei

I was whole-heartedly against the Lucifer/Chloe kid storyline mostly because baby plots are thrown in when a show jumps the shark to add in drama. Also babies are boring story devices (sorry Charlie). If it HAD to be done, I’m glad it was with an adult character and all the kid stuff was skipped over since we already had Trixie and Charlie kid storylines. I wasn’t thrilled with it, but, it grew on me. I liked how they were able to wrap up certain themes and circle back with the redemption/abandonment/fate arcs. And even though Rory was a typical I-hate-you kid, it was resolved quickly enough and the Deckerstar chemistry was strong enough it worked fine to me. Ella, Charlotte/Mom, Cain/Lt, Eve, God/Dad, and Brother/Michael were all arguably thrown into their respective seasons and managed to establish themselves. I get what you mean about Rory pulling a Dawn from Buffy, but, of all the millions of possible outcomes Dr. Strange could have shown us for the final season, there could have been a LOT worse outcomes I think. Overall, in the important ways, I feel satisfied with what we got and WAY WAY WAY more satisfied than if S3 had been the finale. Basically anything was better than what could have been in the worst timeline where somewhere on Earth 61 that was the last season they got.


fuckcreepers

I get all that alright. And have no problem with it. My problem is the way it happened. The writing. Lucifer forced to abandon Rory and Chloe for years. Not seeing any big moments. LIKE- that definitely could've been better. Rory was a great character, but wasn't written well into the story. My disappointment is with the writers, who IMO could've done better.


thelongestshot

I liked what Lucifer became, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to be a locked time loop. "Oh you're my daughter, and you say it's a locked time loop? Well guess what? Your name used to be Aurora, but now I've decided we're changing it to Lupita Regina" So much for immutable time


LorienTheFirstOne

Torturing children (both Rory and Trixie) for decades, or in Trixie's case, most or all of her mortal life, is inexcusable child abuse when the only reason to do so is so that Lucifer gets the job he wants.


HengroenAndLlamrei

I don’t think we view this situation the same at all. Plenty of children grow up without a parent because they passed away or have a demanding job, like the military. It’s heartbreaking, but a reality. I actually saw a it as a bit of an allegory for that. Even someone with as much power as Lucifer had to sacrifice to serve a higher purpose of helping people/defending his country/the world. It’s sad and beautiful in its own way. As for Rory’s alleged torture, she ASKED Lucifer to do it even after she herself had gone through the anger and pain of not having him. So she made the judgment call that all that was worth it to her for her father to heal the damned souls. She CHOSE her own difficult childhood, begged for him to do it, in fact. Chloe also CHOSE that’s life. Not only did she tell Lucifer to honor Rory’s wishes because she didn’t want their future daughter to fade from existence/be different/destroy the time loop, she went through indecision about it all and talked it out with Amenadiel beforehand. Plus she knows she gets eternity with him later so, it’s hard not having him, but hardly for forever. And Trixie lost her actual father, Dan. It was painful and difficult but we got a resolution scene that showed she is strong enough to move past it. That’s what let Dan ascend. She loved Lucifer, sure, but let’s not forget, he’s dipped out a lot before. He’s a dear friend to her, but I don’t think she ever saw him as her father.


LorienTheFirstOne

No one asked Trixie if being abandoned was ok with her. We know in Rory's future T is pretty broken.


HengroenAndLlamrei

What scenes/lines indicate she is broken? I honestly don’t recall since I just binged it through once. I got the impression she was a bit of a fun-loving mischievous person. Spiking the punch and all that.


zoemi

Spiking the punch at 16 is bit alarming considering the kind of parent Chloe is.


HengroenAndLlamrei

Is it though? Seems like pretty normal teenager stuff, particularly for a cop kid. It’s not at all unusual for kids of cops/pastors, etc. to go through a fit of rebellion. They even have a nickname for it: PK or Preacher’s Kid. And let’s be honest, if LUCIFER was around do you really think it would be LESS likely she spiked the punch??


Odd_Satisfaction2257

Torture? Really? Bro go outside touch some grass 😂


LorienTheFirstOne

Abandoning them without telling them why, even when you know it will screw them up, all so you can have the job you want, is simply child abuse as much as any hell loop we were shown


overcode2001

Rewatch the final scene in 610 between Lucifer and Rory at the penthouse. Lucifer didn’t choose to leave them for a job. He choose to make a promise to his daugther who begged him to not change her. To not change anything that happens. He said it himself, he would never leave them if that was the choice he had to make. It’s plaintly clear that he intended to follow his calling as a day job and always return to them.


LorienTheFirstOne

And the promise to his daughter was about the job. He made the choice. And of course poor Trixie had no say at all


overcode2001

The promise was to not change her.


LorienTheFirstOne

So that she would have a horrible life and come back to make sure he realizes what job he should have. It's insane.


ThespianCookie

I'm sorry but why would Trixie have any say in what Lucifer promises to his daughter?


PainfulPeanutBlender

Lol what? Torture? How are either of them tortured? Also how can you say most of Trixie’s mortal life when the show goes up to when she’s what, 15?


LorienTheFirstOne

She will live knowing her father died and her step father abandoned her without warning or discussion. Her mother is \~90, making Trixie elderly herself, and possibly dead given human life spans, before she knows that they all deliberately did this to her so Lucifer could get the job he wanted.


HappyInNature

Redeaming billions of damned souls and saving them from eternal pain and suffering isn't exactly a selfish act....


LorienTheFirstOne

None of which required the loop to be repeated except for really bad writing and/or if you assume god is impotent.


overcode2001

Trixie always saw his as her friend. Not her step father. She lost a friend, not a step father. Had he stayed, and with Rory in the mix, their relationship could have evolved that way, sure. But when he left, it wasn’t that.


LorienTheFirstOne

He was moving into step father territory. He was her primary male role model after her dad died.


RafKen593

Assuming she didn't figure it out *before* Rory's death. If Charlie is anything to go by, in human-angel hybrids wings just randomly pop out when they reach a specific age. She could have seen Rory's wings pop out like that and connect the dots.


LorienTheFirstOne

And know she was lied to.


RafKen593

?


PainfulPeanutBlender

You’re jumping to so many conclusions here


LorienTheFirstOne

What conclusion am I jumping to that was explicit on screen?


heavy_chamfer

But you are wrong to equate earth years with eternal years. Earth years are when you and your soulmate come together, fall in love, make a family, have kids, watch them grow, struggle, overcome, and make your destiny. Life is the journey, heaven/ hell the destination. Skipping the journey is the saddest thing that could happen no matter how long you are at your destination.


HengroenAndLlamrei

But Lucifer is an Angel. He never had that human experience anyway. The closest was his ‘childhood’ antics we heard about in therapy. He and the others were created fully formed and already been alive for millennia. And the last 6 seasons were all about his struggle and growth. Chloe already had all of that and Rory gets to experience it too. Their earth life just doesn’t have Lucifer in it the entire time. But considering their bestie is new God, I also think they get a few perks other people don’t. Edit: I don’t disagree they missed out on stuff, but that’s part of the meaningful sacrifice.


apptthrowaway2

I just don't understand. Lucifer could have popped up to see chloe whenever he wanted without his daughter knowing. Hell, he could have been an 'uncle' figure and she wouldn't have known. The ending just made no sense


SacreligiousBoii

Uriel and Remiel would like to beg to differ


AugustineBlackwater

Supernatural had a similar issue but handled it really well. Spoilers below: .... ..... .... .... .... ... .... ... Jack (new God) basically became one with everything and chose to stay hands off, Sam lived his best life and Dean died doing what he loved, hunting. Everyone was reunited in the afterlife where everyone's heavens had been joined together.


TheSurvivingWolf

I can’t count the amount of times that S6 made me cry… :(((