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Being a chef for 15 years i can say that the only people that make the money are those above you! It’s a racket
How are those 5 am to 11:30 pm shifts? My dad was a chef and he hated those with a burning passion
Yeah it’s garbage man! But if you try to leave at a “normal 11 hour day” you don’t have “passion”.
yikes, that must be tough
I hate this mentality. I overheard some of my co-workers say that if someone really cared about the kids we worked with, they'd be okay with the low wages. They were talking about someone who quit due to low pay.
We get paid less than In-N-Out workers for a job that requires: a car, a degree, and we live in a city where COL is very high.
I was responsible for 15 depressed and self-harming teenagers at a $12/hr rate - not even $1 per child per hour.
Fuck that noise 100%. And fuck the kids too at that pay.
Bro why don't you make a center to help depressed kids and teenagers and set a pay around 15$ for each child per session. Mental health doctors make around 100$ per session dang!!!
I finally got sick of it. No more chef positions for me. Working on getting out of the kitchen for good too. I love the actual work and the people, but the industry is straight up exploitation.
Human: I enjoy this kind of work. I would like to do the work. I need to get paid enough to stay alive, and get treated like a human.
Employers: How about I pay you a fraction of what it takes to stay alive, and treat you like a mangy donkey?
Human: Um... No. I want to do that work, but no, I can't do it under those conditions and stay alive for very long.
Employers: Nobody wants to work anymore!
Seriously, I actually really enjoyed working in fast food, hanging out a back window helping busy hungry people get a quick bite to eat, pushing myself to get faster and more coordinated and constantly cleaning. The pay and the treatment chased me out, but I was perfectly happy to do the actual work, even the greasy dishwashing parts.
Hahaha yeah exactly!
I used to really, really love it too. Spent so much creativity and passion at jobs that didn't appreciate me and now I'm burnt out.
You work service because of good hard working people, working a white collar job taught me that they are full of lazy hedge senders who like to do nothing.
Example, but the IT guy..can I not help him? No, your above his paygrade
I'm sorry, but I am unable to parse this. What are you saying?
I think he’s having a stroke
People gotta quit posting while having a stroke. Time matters to save your brains people!
He's saying it's the people you come in and work next to that keep you coming in. You have a camaraderie in the service industry that comes from shared trauma that is rarely seen in white collar work. There, everyone is just looking for ways to minimize actual work done at any cost.
The chains of our oppression, and the keys to our freedom, are forged in the bonds we share with our brothers
Holy shit, thank you! You must be fluent in dishie
And the waiters
I work at a restaurant so that my boss’s kids can all drive BMWs, get kicked out of the best private schools and retain the best DUI lawyers.
There’s even a framed picture of all four of them when you walk in so that they can watch me mop the floors at the end of another double I have to work just to pay rent.
No cameras? Damn, this floor i'm mopping is greaswhoops *crack* tisk tisk, gotta get the pan and broom...
Actually a creepy amount of cameras
Not surprised. Reactive not proactive, the classic reason for installing a bunch of cameras. Micromanage from afar...
They make you stay poor so you would have no choice but to slave away.
Similarly, of rich people deserver their wealth cause they "took a big risk", then every firefighter should be a millionaire.
The truth is, wealth doesn't come from.hard work or risk (altough those might be additional factors), it primarily comes from exploitation and / or luck.
> it primarily comes from exploitation and / or luck.
These days it primarily comes from inheritance, I feel.
Inheritance and exploitation, plus the tiniest amount of luck. But most of that “luck” is just gaming the system.
The luck is getting an inheritance
Luck to have people around you that can give you a leg up because they are in the right place.
It's both, silly!
>These days it primarily comes from inheritance, I feel.
Currently most millionares were not born millionares.
The reality is that a lot of people can become millionaires with enough time. It hardly means you’re rich. You can save $75/mo from the time you’re 18 until you’re 65 and come out with over $1 million getting average market returns (before interest). For the median household in the US, that’s less than 2% of their monthly take home pay.
Having a helping hand from birth and being at the right place at the right time, pure luck, and then exploitation.
Firefighters are millionaires.
but also, firefighters are tax paid.
Firefighters make fucking bank, dude.
Glassdoor says median US firefighter makes $40k/year. Even if Glassdoor is wayyy off and median is $80k/year, that’s not the kind of salary that makes someone a millionaire outside of maybe their home plus retirement account.
So glad you brought this up.
Glassdoor's numbers are ***way*** off when you look at *total pay.*
Regular Pay | $48,681
Overtime Pay | $3,199
Total Pay | $180,416 (?!?)
Total Benefits | $60,710
**Total Pay + Benefits** | **$241,126**
And it's not just him - there's not a single guy in [the top 400](https://transparentnevada.com/salaries/search/?q=firefighter&s=-total&page=7) whose total pay + benefits is under $200k.
Now if you want to see something absolutely bonkers, let's go to California, where we have [a firefighter who was paid for over 9,200 hours of work in 2017.](https://reason.com/2018/05/21/firefighter-earned-300k-in-overtime-by-w/)
Why is that bonkers? Because there are only 8,760 hours in a year.
His salary breakdown for 2017:
Regular Pay | $95,971
Overtime Pay | $305,206
Other Pay | $31,437
Total Pay | $432,615
Total Benefits | $61,626
**Total Pay + Benefits** | **$494,241**
In California, the top 400 highest-earning firefighters got [over $300k each](https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=firefighter&y=2021&page=9) in total pay + benefits in 2021.
Intelligence and delayed gratification.
I think you misunderstood. When they say becoming a millionaire just takes hard work, they aren't saying the person doing the hard work will become a millionaire. Becoming a millionaire requires others to do hard work so you can exploit the living shit out of them and reap the rewards of their labour.
Requires skill, risk, luck and intelligence. Sorry you think having a job means your boss is exploiting you. You will probably always be exploited because you go in thinking that what is happening.
It requires ownership. The risk is present regardless of your position. If the business fails the employee is at least as fucked as the owner. Business owners have insurance and options for risk mitigation. The employee is out on their ass. Skill and intelligence hardly factor. If you have the money, you buy profitable assets. Luck is a factor, but not a major one unless you are doing something high risk, without any kind of protection, in which case you're a moron.
I'm not being exploited. I'm a nurse. My pay is shit, but it's a public service. No one's getting rich off my labour. I sell stuff online to maintain a livable wage, but that's fine. No one should struggle to get by while making someone else rich.
>Business owners have insurance and options for risk mitigation. The employee is out on their ass.
This. Especially since business bankruptcy can protect the owner's private assets.
Risk mitigation doesn’t mean there is no risk….bankruptcy is horrible on a person and follows them for life.
Restaurant owners are far from rich typically….but they dam sure should be getting paid more than the people who take food from the kitchen to the table.
All for people not struggling….but it shouldn’t be expected to graduate highschool….get a server job, and afford a house car and leisure.
Reminds me of the headline that [billionaire tourists on ISS](https://gizmodo.com/billionaires-iss-hard-work-1848932724) were shocked that they had to contribute.
Also, the descendants of American black slaves would be riding high on the hog right about now.
que the comments saying its not real hard work and its for high school students
You know, it’s funny that they say that. Because as far as I’m aware, all these places operate during school hours.
I'm sorry for the correction.
might as well delete my comment now how embarrassing (for the both of us)
Plus it's cue, not que or queue. Sorry
well well well what a nice twist we have here
"Yeah but anyone can do that! Come back when you have an actual skill." says the guy who would drop that tray, say "fuck this shit" and walk out.
Lanyards when working with food? Shut it down
Shovel wet sandy mud for 12 hours straight and tell me how much harder you work than I, don't worry ill wait lol, for every level you go up you do less and get paid more, I remember being a child learning that thinking well that makes no since.
As a kid, I thought the best-paid jobs were the ones nearly nobody would ever want to do. Dangerous or very boring work *obviously* had to be highly paid to convince anyone to do it.
And then I found a copy of The Jungle by Upton Sinclair on my mother's bookcase and read it. That helped explain some things.
I’m making 23 an hour as a electrician
I’m making that as a CIS who works from home.
That said, insurance is eating up my paycheck
Crypto bro: "YoU hAVe tO wOrK SmArTeR nOt HaRdEr"
It's mostly luck if your not born into it. Every once in a while there's someone who scratched and clawed but still had to be at the right place at the right time doing the right thing.
This was the one sentence, along with single motherhood, that woke me up from my daze years ago
Crapitalism is a social structure literally built upon scams and scammers.
Everything about crapitalism is designed to make us think any other system is a death sentence while squeezing us for every ounce of value it can.
Death to crapitalism.
Vive la révolution!
Does anyone really claim that hard work is *all* it takes to become rich? Boomer Facebook-tier meme.
Waiters in good restaurants make bank.
Antoine’s of New Orleans me all kinds of run ragged. But damn if that paycheck wasn’t good
Well everyone that has done back breaking work knows that hard work is a lie. It’s smart work. Which may require long hours but it’s smart work that makes you rich.
Every migrant worker would be a billionaire. Every plumber and welder would have a 10 room mansion and a yacht.
No one ever gets rich working for someone else. That hard work rule applies to being a small business owner. Employees are always just a commodity like Corn and Oil and Sides of Beef, especially at the lower end of the wage scale. A good indicator of whether you job choice will make you any money is whether or not anyone who walks in off the street can do it and whether when push comes to shove your customers can do it themselves like cooking or house cleaning.
> your customers can do it themselves like cooking or house cleaning
Pretty much been a custodian all my life here. People are god damn pigs in public, bar none. Job security for crap wages...
I don't want to imagine them cleaning their house if they can't even walk a few extra feet to a trash can, or keep trash in their car until finding a better place to dispose of it...
Some people are slobs, no doubt. But most employees in the service industry are doing things pretty much everyone can do for themselves, only cost and convenience make them choose to spend money instead. The days of employing a large number of service workers out side of healthcare are over. The boomers are retiring and taking their massive wealth and squirrelling it under the mattress assuming it hasn't evaporated with inflation yet.
Ok? And I’m supposed to care that the Reagan disciples are stacking up their gold coins why?
What is being done to transition up and comers into better paying jobs without psychotic rumblings that they don’t deserve a proper low cost education to make the big bucks?
Because for most of the service industry (Bars, Restaurants, Hotels) the boomers are bankrolling those jobs with their massive Disposable income. People in younger generations working low wage jobs and using all their money for food, rent and transportation, are not bankrolling much, and won't be for the near future.
The problem with low cost anything, is that low cost means no one wants it. You want low cost education for you, paid for by someone else. Take the loan, get the scholarship, go to the union hall educate yourself.
Okay… boomer. Done with you. Toodles!
>The problem with low cost anything, is that low cost means no one wants it. You want low cost education for you, paid for by someone else. Take the loan, get the scholarship, go to the union hall educate yourself.
The lack of self awareness would be hilarious if it wasn't so infuriating. Higher education was low cost for the baby boomer generation, yet it was still wanted. Because the costs were so low, student debts were much lower. They didn't need to take so much loans, or receive as many scholarships because the cost was so affordable. Not only did they reap the rewards in such a low cost system of higher education, they then created conditions within society which demanded the next generation to attain even higher levels of education, while increasing the costs multiple times above inflation and drastically increasing the student debt burden.
I don’t know a single person who says, “All it takes to get rich is hard work.”
If you worked hard because you thought it’d make you a millionaire you did it to your self.
Yeah, you end up poor like my parents.
Can confirm. Serving had my back and legs aching, plus all the verbal abuse you take and sometimes two hours of unpaid "sidework."And those trays can weigh as much as a small child, which you need to carry on your shoulder. Switched to stripping in grad school. Honestly was better for my mental health, sadly.
My gf would be richer than jeff bezos with how hard she works... she is a workaholic to the nth degree
You need to work smart AND hard. And yes a reasonable amount of luck and capital doesn't hurt. But (and I might be wrong about this) Kevin Olery's parents weren't that wealthy were they?
That’s literally not what anybody means lol
Now the owning class is moving the goalpost to "anybody who works smart."
This is also a lie, but they'll do anything to keep poor people mad at slightly less poor people and not wondering why the rich do none of the work and receive all of the money
The trick is to work hard at a job that pays well.
That's not a lie. They just didn't tell whose hard work. It takes someone's else's hard work. Not yours. Guarantee the restaurant owner is ballin off that guys hustle.
Literally no one says it’s just “hard work”. It’s hard work and providing a sought after skill that isn’t replaced by someone else training for 2 hrs. Almost anyone can take someone’s food from the kitchen to their table. Ya it’s hard work but it’s also easy to teach and replace.
Lies and theft are the way to riches
no no, they just don't work *hard enough* ... Everyone knows everyone who is currently a million and up have worked the hardest out of everyone in existence for what they have! Definitely weren't mostly just handed generational wealth or definitely didn't just exploit a bunch of hard working people to made their money... /s
i full-heartedly agree, but as a server this guy is fucking it all up. bottom of the red fry basket on the food? ew. all that shit getting smushed and if somebody missteps in front of him he's losing like $200 in product.
edit: the closer i look the worse it gets lmao
I guarantee that in a society where hard work was actually what determined how much you got paid, the highest paying jobs would include pretty much anyone working with food (these people are literally responsible for giving you what you need to live and often have to deal with the shittiest people and a lot of very hot items) and factory workers (pretty broad range of things, but could include providing the world’s electricity, vehicles and technology, and often you’re risking burning/scolding from hot materials or pipes among other things)
You assume they are actually any good at their current work?
*You assume they are*
*Actually any good*
*At their current work?*
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“Well you’re doing it wrong! Don’t be a waiter! Be the manager of the joint! Always go UP!” Yeah but I don’t want to be a manager..
Its the value of the labor, not how hard it it. Its all supply and demand. Anyone can do a service workers job, not everyone can be a programmer, engineer, doctor, CEO, or any of the higher paid jobs.
Hard work does not make you rich. Smart work does. If you have a skill that is valuable on the market you will be fine. Food being served to tables in fast food restaurants literally luxury. Also those are one of the worst metan emissioners because of the cows farts(20x stronger green house gas than CO2).
Eat chicken if you want meet.
I never said no risk. I just don't think the owner is taking all the risk while the worker takes none. If the business goes under, the employees, who typically have no other source of income, are properly fucked.
And yes, I absolutely believe a high school graduate should be able to buy a house, car and have money left for leisure. What is the point of giving everyone a minimum 10 years of education if not to give them the skills to contribute to society and live a good life? Why shouldn't a restaurant worker, who busts their ass every day, be entitled to a decent standard of living?
Also, the topic is 'hard work creates millionaires'. The restaurant owner that's barely getting by isn't one of the exploitative millionaires I am talking about. That being said, if restaurants can't run while paying decent wages, there needs to be less restaurants.
by this logic my dad should be a millionaire, anyone who says waiting on tables is hard work doesn't have to wake at 3am on Monday, fly to the other side of the country, work in 100°F degree heat in factories, for 18 hours a day, come back Friday, have two days to "relax" and still have reports and papers to work on at home. My father and his job is the biggest reason I have no respect for CEOs who comparatively have very easy jobs.
Hard work in the right areas.
You can cut 500 yards in a day, but you aren't going to get rich. Now if you start small, bust your ass and build a sizeable lawn care business, that's a different story.
Me? I'd rather get paid to fuck off for 8 hours and not have the headache od being in charge.
This requires the exploitation of others though and just further proves the point that hard work won't make you a millionaire. You can only become a millionaire by hiring employees that perform the hard work and you simply reap their excess value.
The hard work of others is what makes someone rich (in most cases, there are some exceptions).
you're talking about physical labor.
I can guarantee you that starting a gardening business and managing people is very hard.
But I agree. Working hard physically gets you no where. You can't mop floors 24 hours a day and become wealthy.
At a certain point, you have to take a risk and shift your energy.
Starting a business is time intensive at first, and is very hard depending on the amount of starting capital you have.
But at the end of the day it is still less work in the long run. And starting a business is not a solution to the overall problem of wealth extraction. If everyone started their own business the economy would collapse and mass production would be impossible.
The actual solution to this is elimination of the profit motive and people need to suck it up that they won't be able to buy mcmansions and have 10 overseas vacations a year. The plus side is that without the profit motive there is no need to exploit people and overall qol will rise.
If you are a gardener, you can start a gardening business with very little capital.
You can't remove a profit motive. Its literally impossible. "Profit" is just "Extra Income." after expenses.
Are you telling me that you will refuse extra income and just work for bare minimum?
You are also involved in a "extra income" motive aren't you?
I'm more interested in retaining the value of my labor.
What I mean by eliminating the profit motive, is retooling the system to provide profits to those that earned it.
Instead of 50%-75% of the profit generated by a business going to a small handful of people who own it. It should be divided up between all the people that work.
As of right now a company manufactured an opioid crisis by looking to increase profits by selling an addictive drug and pushing it on people. This money did not go to the workers, it went to people who probably can't tell you how it is made start to finish. If the money made by selling the product actually went to those who made it and the company were a democracy instead of a dictatorship, chances are it would have never been pushed so hard, and we may have never had an opioid crisis in the states.
The problem with profit is that it gets concentrated into the hands of very few giving them an undue amount of power, and allowing a small handful of individuals to make terrible decisions and do terrible things to increase their own wealth.
Also. I am a gardener, the cost of tools, books, transportation, and starting materials is no small amount of capital. Especially if you cannot find someone who will pay up front, most of the jobs I have taken on have paid after services are rendered, it was only through the kindness of a friend that I was able to start doing it at all. And this does not count the endless hours of learning how to do it properly and well.
And it does not cover the bills, it's a side hustle. So whenever I take on a job, I have to actively decide to spend less time on things that are really important, like time with my son and spouse.
Whereas if my fulltime job paid me for the value I produced, I would make between 22 and 37 dollars an hour depending on how many other people are present for my shift, instead of 18 an hour. But instead of that, my employer buys expensive cars, parties everyday of the week, pays for expensive trips, and a boat. Every single one of his employees wants to buy a house, or go to college, or even just fix their shitty run down car, but they can't because he spends all the money we earn for him on his wants and whims. All while he works a whopping 6 hours a week.
What you've said is just a very convoluted way of saying you think you are not paid enough.
The value you produced is dictated by the market. Hence the word "value."
The market dictates all the rates.
If a plumber thinks the value of snaking a drain is $1000, does this make it true?
The plumber has every right to ask for $1000 to snake a drain, but the market will dictate the value of it.
Can the plumber go into a house and complain that the owner of the house is living so lavishly, why don't they pay me $1000 to snake a drain?
Although we don't have a completely free market system (its been corrupted by local government), you can still thrive in it.
The "work hard" saying has been misinterpreted.
Like you said, starting a gardening business is time intensive at first.
time intensive = hard work
Edit: an observation. You seem to have personal problems with your boss and it has developed into a deep hatred. Seems like you are projecting your problems onto him. Not healthy.
In the same fashion that you will call around to get the price you want in response to a plumber who wants to charge you $1000 to snake a drain.
The problem is not that the plumber believes that he should be paid 1000 to snake the drain.
It's that his boss is being paid 500 to pay the plumber 100 to snake the drain.
And the market may dictate the rates, but it is the system that determines who benefits from the work of others.
Let's say I work in a pizza shop, and you order a pizza and pay 20 dollars.
If I hand you all the ingredients for a single pizza, you would be understandably pissed. You paid for a pizza, not the raw ingredients. it is by putting energy (labor and heat energy) into the pizza that it becomes a sellable product and is then subject to the market.
A customer is willing to pay 20 dollars for a hot pizza, that is what the market has determined.
If the raw ingredients+heat energy+ the costs of the means of production (oven, rent, water etc)= 2.80 per pizza. Then there is 17.20 of value being produced when the worker makes the pizza. But I would eat my hat if you could find a pizza cook making 17.20 per pizza made. Instead that 17.20 goes into the owners pocket and the owner pays the pizza cook .25c per pizza assuming it takes about a minute to just assemble a pizza and throw it in the oven +a small amount from prep time for the ingredients and a dinner rush of 100 pizzas in an hour.
I'm using pizza because I know the math from path experience and it's relatively easy to calculate the value produced by a pizza cook.
In short, the market dictates the value of a product, but it is labor that creates that value from the raw materials.
no if the boss is being paid 500 to snake the drain,
why can't you buy a snake for 200 and keep the 500 yourself and offer the service for 500 to everyone and anyone who needs it?
why do you feel the need to shoehorn a boss into this situation?
Because [84% of plumbers have a boss](https://www.getonedesk.com/blog/plumbing-statistics)
90% of the workforce overall has a boss. It's not just plumbers, or pizza cooks, or what have you, it's damn near everything.
The capital needed to start many businesses is a large barrier to entry. Especially for trades or anything that require a post secondary education.
Profit is what happens after expenses (labor, materials, etc) are paid and there is leftover money. If everyone who worked at a business is paid equally (through paychecks) then there should be no “profit”. That money was already dispersed amongst the people who earned it in their paychecks.
so what is in it for the owner of the business if they make no profit?
Would spend your money to open a business and distribute all the profit evenly to your workers?
The owner still makes money. Just the same amount of money as everyone else as everyone on staff contributes to the success of the business albeit in different ways.
so you want someone to open a business and profit share with you equally?
Do you then also share the loss?
I’d be down for it. It’s incentive for people to do all they can to make a business work, isn’t it? And I don’t need to make more than someone else as long as I’m making what I earned. And yes, the loss also gets shared. The laborers have lost time they could’ve been building other more successful businesses as well as wear and tear on their bodies, and the time it will take for them to find a new job. The business owner would lose money and have to become a laborer again. Both parties have lost what they put in to the business.
Well that business isn’t it? Some times it’s booming & sometimes it’s not. I think it’s fair that all parties share equally in that. And I never said running a business was easy, but when everyone profit shares it’s incentive for everyone to do the best they can. Management does the busy work (paperwork, ordering, logistics, etc), laborers the manual work (building, cleaning, lifting, creating, etc). A business needs both sides equally in order to run smoothly and effectively. Why wouldn’t that be reflected in payroll?
Hard work implies smart work. Downvote me but this particular meme is just dumb.
No it doesn’t. The idea is that if you’re poor you’re lazy which is demonstrably false.
That's a different idea, which is also wrong. Working hard isn't just with your body. It's with your mind, too. The whole thing is fucked but you don't argue by taking one portion of an argument and arguing against it out of context.
Soooo based on your own logic, you’re either a millionaire or you’re stupid.
No, that's based on no logic. I'm here because I also disagree with how the system works not because I'm brain dead.