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Vexillumscientia

I wrote a paper in Jan 2020 on the national debt. I was afraid it would be 30 by 2027. Oh how wrong I was. But you know I’m just pushing unreasonable fear right?


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yimmyyumyum

Way higher I bet. 60 easy


Known-Barber114

There is no official us debt clock lmao it’s all estimates


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Known-Barber114

“Official” implies that the source is a reputable organization. It’s not.


gottahavetegriry

Covid wasn’t an unreasonable reason to increase the national debt. My issue is that since mid 2021 when many people had access to the vaccine, they continued to increase the debt by an extra 2 trillion which is ridiculous. Especially since they only collected 4 trillion in tax income. At least the high inflationary period we are going through will reduce real debt, but they’re already introducing bills to spend more to somehow reduce inflation. Imagine being so stupid you think increasing the money supply will reduce inflation


superduperdomestique

Covid was a terrible reason to increase the debt. Forcing people out of their jobs and then ramping up spending creates guaranteed inflation. When my income goes down I find ways to reduce my spending rather than going on a shopping spree.


wolfeman2120

we gotta stop this national crisis every couple years shit. They pass funding for every hurricane that damages a city. All that money goes to special interest groups and incentivizes bad behavior like building in flood zones. these things are the states responsibility. They pass shit at the federal level to take advantage of the unlimited credit card and to fund all their crony friends.


gottahavetegriry

I disagree with shutting down the economy as a whole, but they had to implement high spending to keep the economy afloat. Unemployment reached a peak of nearly 15%. I believe in Keynesian economics which states that increased government spending and lower taxes will pull an economy out of a recession. While the US did do this, they used covid as an excuse to overspend without consequence from the public


SonOfShem

> I believe in Keynesian economics which states that increased government spending and lower taxes will pull an economy out of a recession. Profit is only guaranteed when money is exchanged voluntarily. Government confiscation and redistribution is not voluntary, and thus does not create profit, which is how the economy grows. https://youtu.be/GTQnarzmTOc?t=60


superduperdomestique

The economy would adjust without the need for massive government overspending. Keynesian economics has been, by far, the most destructive force of the last century.


gottahavetegriry

The economy would adjust much slower without Keynesian economics. I wouldn’t call it destructive, I would say that politicians just use it as an excuse to spend more even in god economic times


superduperdomestique

Keynesian spending PREVENTS the required adjustments that allow the economy to recover and prosper. It is, at all times and in every situation, destructive.


myguygetshigh

Can you demonstrate this?


superduperdomestique

Murray Rothbard explains this much better than I can. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgtmjVLMbM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgtmjVLMbM)


myguygetshigh

He didn’t really explain much, I agree the idea has merit, but I’m not convinced that intervening in a recession is ineffective, furthermore worse than not intervening.


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superduperdomestique

Reminder to you that when Keynesian policies are followed, the economy gets even worse and unemployment eventually gets far worse. All that happens is that the can is kicked down the road. Why do you hate humanity so much?


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yimmyyumyum

Whaaaaaaaatttt! Insanity


wasinwill

Our debt increased by $7.8T under Trump, so about $2T a year too. It’s a horseshoe, not a line. Two wings of the same bird.


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Cody5200

Two works Rand Paul


Mojorizen2

lol how is it dishonest to average that number out. Maybe just take his last year then?


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Red-tailhawk

Take your Trump shit out of here, he is not even close to a Libertarian.


Uncivil__Rest

So we’re not allowed to state facts about trump here?


CleverNameTheSecond

Ever since the Bush's last year in 2008 and his bailing out companies that were too big to fail the national debt just going up and up and up with reckless abandon. The entire machine is geared for this now.


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Rstar2247

No. Stop right there. Excessive spending is either bad or it isn't. None of this it's ok for us but not for them mentality crap. Generations of that moronic mentality is what got us the government we have now.


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Big_Rich_240

Biden didn't enter office officially until 2021 and the highest increase in spending was in 2020 under Trump


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Mojorizen2

Lol anything Trump does is always justified. That’s why no one can have an actual debate with a Trumpet.


Big_Rich_240

Wait but that would mean Trump caused inflation? Since it was his massive overspending in 2020, as you just said, that caused inflation to rise in 2021 and 2022? Do I have that right? And since the money supply was inflated in 2020 by Trump then wouldn't current spending be proportionally in less due to inflation?


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Big_Rich_240

The M1 increase was in 2020 though! The 2020 increase created the inflation of 2021 and 2022 that Biden inherited! Isn't that what you said earlier? Just look at the increase that started in 2021 right when Trump dumped all that money!


Rstar2247

Lol, for someone who doesn't care.... you're spending a lot of text arguing with me. But hey, enjoy your freedom to spout out factually false information courtesy of the first amendment.


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Rstar2247

I mean... I agree with you. But that's like saying being kicked in the balls is worse than being punched in the face.


findaway5627

Surely you aren't serious.


That_One_Third_Mate

He is, and don’t call him Shirley ;)


jeffsang

[Don't call me Shirley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3JLl3bsfTc)


Girafferage

Its not even his final form.


Mojorizen2

lol he’s serious and doesn’t even see the hypocrisy.


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findaway5627

Oh, shit. You *were* serious. lol I'm not going to have a buzzword salad conversation with you.


jdland

Waste of time. I believe the people who so ardently support Trump lack the critical thinking skill set (or willingness) to understand why what they hear from Trumpland is: 1) a lie; and 2) incongruous to reality. It's an ego thing, maybe...wrapping one's identity in the trappings of a strongman can evaporate insecurities.


ThatRandomIdiot

Trump utilized the already disenfranchised Republican Party that was having an identity crisis since the Tea Party movement and exploited a lot of fears that many people were having. He utilized the growing anger against career politicians / „the establishment“ to take control over the party that never expected him to become the nominee. Now that he has more support from the base then any of the other party members he basically has the GOP hostage. and he’s not the only leader worldwide utilizing these tactics. From Serbia, Hungry, India, Brazil, to Turkey. The leaders have used or are using same tactics to Widdle away their countrys‘ democracies. Anyone who’s gone to school for poli sci could probably tell you that across the globe Democracy has been on the decline since the early 00s. None of the issues trump has brought onto the U.S. is unique. He just was extremely effective at convincing his base to believe his every word


bobguyman

Yeah. Circle logic.


YeetSpageet

found the idiot, get off this sub


VanHoy

We don’t do Keynesian economics here.


jeffsang

Ah, *only* $1.2 trillion a year, nevermind that was up considerably after things stabilized after the financial crisis. [Trump also specifically said he didn't care because it wouldn't be a problem til after he was out of office](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-debt-crisis-fine-wont-be-here-report-2018-12).


TheCleverCarpenter

Guys, who’s going to tell him??


YeetSpageet

He’s too far gone. I’m not sure how he even ended up on this sub.


wasinwill

Couldn’t read past “Trump saved us”. Sorry.


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jdp111

Are you trolling or are you five years old?


panda-wrangler

100% a troll, nobody is this stupid.


ElBatManny

Have you been outside in the past decade?


thejohnmc963

Five


rumbleclaw

I think you’re in the wrong subreddit bud


saltymcfistfight2

I'm a hardcore Trump supporter. But this is just nonsense.


mitrodamus

Trumps isolationist economic policies did irreversible damage to US economy and specifically to the middle class. His trade policies were objectively non-libertarian and are arguably a major driver of the current inflation and shortages.


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UnderstandingOne2247

>you support people who say that Obama saved us No we dont, we are libertarians, just because we dont like trump because he was a big spender, pro surveillance state, pro red flag laws, and appointed jeff sessions, bill barr, and mike pompeo to federal agencies doesnt mean we like Democrats. There are many Republicans that are very good, Mike Lee, Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, Nick Freitas, but Trump is not one of them


Known-Barber114

So happy to see some real libertarians against Trump. I’ve seen so many “libertarians” say that Trump would be a better president, but there are no libertarian issues besides guns that Trump is better than Biden on. Also Rand Paul is a total dumbass and a Trump supporter.


TheMeatSauce1000

Except trump was a better president than biden, his spending was far lower until Covid came around.


wasinwill

You can’t imagine a world where someone would criticize your master without worshipping another huh?


letsdrillbabydrill

Fuck Bush, fuck Obama, fuck Trump, fuck Biden... You see the trend in this sub?


SaggiSponge

What subreddit do you think you’re in?


ThatRandomIdiot

Actually if Obama and Trump didn’t cut funding to Bush‘s pandemic response team over the 12 years they were in office, the U.S. response would’ve been much better. Bush was specifically worried about a coronavirus after SARS in 2003. We had nothing stockpiled bc Trump himself thought it was unnecessary just 6 months before COVID. the extra deaths caused by his inaction between January and March is inexcusable. If he wasn’t listening to every word Winnie the Pooh was telling him about it ending in April, he could’ve actually stopped air travel earlier and help isolate it outside of the U.S. but instead of pushing the Chinese government for the truth, he just listened to what Xi was telling him bc he was too concerned with his trade deal with China he was in the process of negotiating at the start of 2020.


chr1st0ph3r-is

hope trump comes and thanks you for the dick riding you do


IMadeThisToHideMyPII

Bruh. The government should have let businesses fail en masse. We should have all lost our jobs, and THEN we would finally recover from a crisis they've been kicking down the road and snowballing to an extreme. Gov and business should have been punished by their shit response to covid. Without the risk of bankruptcy big business has no incentive to be risk adverse. Meaning the government essentially pays them to make big mistakes.


Known-Barber114

Worst recession in history????? Deadliest pandemic in world history?????


letsdrillbabydrill

GTFO Trumper.


Schnieds1427

Do you understand anything about libertarianism or macroeconomics? Do you know what Keynesian economics is or why libertarians push against it? Who is paying for all of the spending that Trump did to “save the economy”?


broom2100

"Deadliest pandemic in world history" "Prevent a great depression" I am going to assume this is sarcasm.


wesg913

No he didn't. He was a spendthrift just like Biden and Obama. There was almost nothing "conservative" about him other than his stance on immigration or his willingness to reduce taxes.


RyWol

Spending money doesn’t fix recessions


djt201

Let’s not forget Trump’s spending is because he let the political establishment shut down the economy over a virus with a 99% survival rate. Trump may be less bad then Biden but certainly not something to celebrate. Allowing them to shut down the Economy and then blaming the pandemic for the spending is inexcusable.


[deleted]

I hope that “deadliest pandemic” part was supposed to have a /s. Because it is far from that.


LansingBoy

r/lostredditors


Jdogsmity

Worst recession in history? Deadliest pandemic? My dude, read a book.


cateater3735

Biden’s excuse is essentially the same due to trumps lack of action and spread of misinformation through the period you outlined above. Playing catch up has been expensive.


_MyHouseIsOnFire_

Lol. Trump pissed money away just like any other president building up a large bulk of debt in the first couple years 1) So it is the governments job to interfere in the economy? I thought it is not the responsibility of the government to prop up failing corporations. 2) See above point. He is a corporation lover. 3) 1st year was 3 trillion. That’s one year 4) Again see point 1. 5) he doesn’t have one and no one is saying he does . Him and Trump are equally dipshits. And I’ll add, Trump added tariffs, not helping save the US from a recession. That tends to worsen an economy.


Known-Barber114

Well Trump would be considered pretty far right on that horshoe; pretty much the most far-right and authoritarian president we’ve had in a while, while Biden would be somewhere in between a moderate dem and a moderate rep (with certain exceptions). Someone like Bernie would be more to the other end of Trump.


cplusequals

Lol what? Tell a lie enough, I guess. Obama's IRS alone was more authoritarian than the entire cumulative of everything Trump did. The massive regulatory cuts almost certainly have Trump in the net negative for authoritarianism even if Biden did reverse most of them when he entered office.


Vohn_Jogel64

I think it rolls over at $100 trillion so we may be ok


bassandlazers

We're just gonna pull a Danny Devito from Matilda and roll back the debt until the whole world owes US money


Vohn_Jogel64

God what a great reference


CleverNameTheSecond

It'll roll over into the negatives and then everyone will owe the government unimaginable amounts of money instead.


zippyspinhead

Both wings of the duopoly vulture like to print money.


somerville99

Paper money backed by nothing.


Rstar2247

Once people realize it's just paper and stop accepting it in exchange for goods and services, is when the collapse hits.


myguygetshigh

It’s not “just paper” the anti-tamper procedures make it hard to forge, and artificially scarce.


Rstar2247

It has value because the government says so and people believe it.


CleverNameTheSecond

It has value because you do all your transactions with it. The faith in the dollar comes from the use of the dollar. Expect the US to try extra hard \*\* to keep the USD as the world reserve currency in the coming decade. \*\* including but not limited to numerous military interventions.


myguygetshigh

True, doesn’t make the statement “it’s just paper” remotely correct, it’s special paper


ElectivireMax

what should it be backed by? gold is also inherently worthless


Bishkekk

Silver, platinum, palladium, and crypto could be used. Some sort of commodity would be better than what we have currently.


myguygetshigh

Water????


LannachMayor

At least gold cant be printed ad infinitum


RustyShackledord

A 15% increase to the national debt in 2 years. Incredible. Let’s be just as critical of the first 26 trillion as we are of the most recent 4 trillion too.


F-Type_dreamer

Have you seen the time frame on the first 26 look it up.


ObiWanBockobi

Convert your "money" into assets. Seeds, tools, bullets, etc. Things someone will need more than a computer to take or delete.


Hydrocoded

I mean does this surprise anyone?


PromiscuousScoliosis

Those are rookie numbers. Gotta pump em up.


intboom

>We believe in democracy, and equality > >We believe in democracy, and equality > >Debt is money we owe ourselves > >Debt is money we owe ourselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f0Hqbyvsz4


OnePassBy

Obama did it, then trump did it worse, the Biden did it again. The last president to pay down national debt was Bill Clinton in the 90s. So sad


ajomojo

And if you think it is not deliberate you missed reading Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Gramsci, Derrida and Marcuse


laidbackeconomist

r/lostredditors


hop_hero

“Its all paid for”


F-Type_dreamer

😂😂😂😂😂😂🤡


BoognishRisen

We are in the “looting the treasury” phase of empire collapse. They know we never intend or have any thoughts about actually trying to pay anything back. It’s steal what you can and run.


hkfskhsfuhkefshkf

I hate to adopt a defeatist attitude, but... What else is new?


JebidiahBingo

Guess what guys! None of it matters. But your guns, leave the piss poor excuse for economics behind. Become hill people before it’s too late Edit: Buy*


Puzzleheaded_Might_4

All of it goes to minorities who want you dead.


NipsLikeJesus

I have 0 intentions of paying this back. I've seen the new IRS agents, I'll take my chances.


Icy_Cranberry_953

dollar is less valuable so he this 4 trillion is not the same as the 4 trillion before him


Bishkekk

Still a $4 trillion dollar deficit so…


letsdrillbabydrill

Congress, Trump and all the people who voted for these statist clowns are equally accountable. OP is also a Trumper through and through. Go back to r/conservative buddy.


ChaosNinja138

Oh boy, another neo-con pretending to be libertarian again


Hyetigran

Trump is also bad. Only true hero in the past few years is Massie, best second rate grand stander out there.


i_just_mike_b_crazy

Wow, he’s rich!


Top_Banana78

High Score!


Intelligent-Spend338

Not including inflation....


Streetwise_Orangutan

Go back and look at '08, I think it was single digit Trilly then.


from_the_Luft

Can anyone come calling for that debt?


teh27

Don't forget the absolutely massive spending started under trump, but yeah biden absolutely made it worse.