By - Bubbmann
Wikipedia says the wife was shot by a sniper while she was inside her house holding her 10 month old daughter. That is low.
Not one person received any punishment for what happened there.
The Weaver family settled for $3.1 million. They should have settled for the very-googleable-and-still-alive shooter's badge and freedom.
Be a shame if a link was posted
Damn served at Ruby Ridge AND Waco, and still got to be on the force another 21 years…
Even worse? Him and his spotter worked for Troy Ind. for a while, and I believe his spotter still does.
When the forums jumped on down their throats about it the president of Troy defended them.
That’s why ppl deep in the gun community STILL won’t buy Troy and still tell randoms online not to support them.
I’ve always wondered why people disliked Troy, thanks for the info
I got you fam. Plz never buy their shit. Tbh it’s not that good anyway.
Those fuckshows are like badges of honor for those douchebags
Yes but it was an assault infant
Ah carry on then
You got a license for that infant??
Some might call that their birth certificate. Or SS card
We are lucky no one died cause of her
This [PBS documentary](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vsjUqXWv-zI) is very informative:
Big shoutout to the daughter who was willing to talk about what happened in the cabin.
I know this lady personally. She’s a very strong and special person.
Wait until you read about the tent they put up and named after his wife after killing her during the standoff. By they I mean the feds
And the same sniper shot at Branch Davidians while they were escaping the burning compound.
And the same guy who murdered her was later involved in killing all those people at Waco.
That sniper’s name was Lon Horiuchi, he was also at Waco just randomly shooting at Dividians and the only reason he wasn’t caught and faced no consequences was because he immediately re-barreled his rifle.
Don’t go trying to google him to find out what he looks like because there are no images of what he currently looks like.
Yes....and her older daughter describes the details and the trauma of having her mother's blood and tissue splatter on her as she was standing next to her.
Pretty sure it was an ATF agent who shot her.
And then taunted the family for days talking about her on a megaphone!
Shot and killed his wife with a sniper rifle while she was standing in the kitchen holding her 10 month old baby. All because he failed to appear to the court hearing for the shotgun entrapment.
A court hearing he wasn’t informed was taking place, IIRC.
I just read his testimony from a senate hearing. It seemed he knew but didn't want to go. I just feel so miserable for him.
[http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/randytestimony.html](http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/randytestimony.html) for reference
Yeah, I'm guessing that missing a court appearance shouldn't be a death sentence for your wife.
(Not saying you were implying that, just fuck those guys in particular. )
Nearly got his friend too
Yes and no. He was given the wrong date and when it changed last minute he decided not to go to either until they figured it out.
Not the correct decision by any means but also not as damning as refusing to show up because he knew he’d be going to jail either.
They notified him with paperwork however it had the wrong date on it and he missed it. It was on purpose.
Ah, yes. That's what it was. They misinformed him on the court date.
An honest mistake, to be sure.
The sniper's name was Lon Horiuchi. He was also involved in Waco. He has never been punished for his crimes.
After he was given the wrong dates to appear…
Asking someone to commit a crime and them doing it isn't entrapment.
It’s literally that, dumbfuck…
Action by law enforcement personnel to lead an otherwise innocent person to commit a crime, in order to arrest and prosecute that person for the crime.
It isn’t entrapment unless the person/defendant was not predisposed to commit the crime. There essentially has to be some level of coercion for you to be able to use the entrapment defense
Are you serious? Do you actually concoct in your head a legal measurement of “predisposition”? Is this really the bullshit that is floating around in your head?
No, there does not have to be a level of coercion at all. The requirement for entrapment is if a police officer introduces the criminality where none otherwise existed. A police officer approaches an arms dealer and says “can I purchase some weapons”…not entrapment. A police officer approaches a civilian and says “can you illegally modify some weapons for me”…entrapment.
A police officer walks up to a drug dealer and says “can I buy some heroin”…not entrapment. A police officer walks up to a drug addict and says “can I sell you some heroin”…entrapment. See how it doesn’t matter what the “predisposition” is? Whether or not the heroin addict is predisposed to commit the crime of purchasing heroin has no bearing whatsoever to whether the police initiated the criminality where none otherwise existed.
Lmao. "It's not entrapment only if the person they're asking to commit a crime is already a criminal". You do realise that your idea of avoiding entrapment requires telepathy and precognition right?
How do the police determine who is criminal and who isn't before any crime has been committed? Oh that's right, it's anyone who says "yes" when they ask them to commit a crime aka a sting. You have a child's understanding of how police work functions.
>Are you serious? Do you actually concoct in your head a legal measurement of “predisposition”? Is this really the bullshit that is floating around in your head?
"The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not **previously disposed** to commit."
From your own fucking link. Lmao.
"Will you perform an illegal modification on this firearm for me?"
Not innocent, not entrapment.
In order for it to be entrapment the defendant needs to be induced by the police into committng a crime they would normally otherwise refuse to commit.
If a police officer asks you to buy drugs from them and you say "yeah ok" you haven't been entrapped, because no one has done anything to induce your criminal decision.
If a police office tells you to buy drugs from them "or else" then you have been induced into committing a crime and have been entrapped.
This guy was simply asked to commit a crime and did. No one entrapped him.
If a police officer asks you to kill someone and you actually do it, you're not innocent by way of entrapment.
Yeah, we’ll you’re completely wrong and just making shit up in your head canon. This man was not an arms dealer. He was not advertising that he was open for business of selling illegal arms. When police introduce the idea of criminality where there otherwise was not one…that’s entrapment. The introduction of criminality by police IS the inducement. There is no requirement for forcible coercion of any sort whatsoever.
Yes, it is entrapment if a police officer walks up to you on the street and offers to sell you drugs and you say “yes”. 100% of the time a judge would throw that out. Every single time. No need for an “or else” at all. The police officer initiated the illegal behavior where none otherwise existed. That’s entrapment. You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Lmao do you actually believe that? It's literally the opposite. The police are allowed to go fishing for crimes as much as they like. They're allowed to set up stings, they're allowed to lie. The entrapment defense *rarely* ever works. You don't understand what you're reading and have no idea what entrapment is.
This man was not entrapped because he could have literally just said "no" when they asked him to commit a crime.
>Yes, it is entrapment if a police officer walks up to you on the street and offers to sell you drugs and you say “yes”. 100% of the time a judge would throw that out. Every single time
Lmao. No. Police literally do this all the time and idiots such as yourself say "I've been entrapped!" all the time and you know what *actually* happens? Their lawyers say "This isn't entrapment, you don't know what entrapment is, plead guilty, they have you dead to rights."
They found him not guilty of the weapons charge that precipitated the whole thing dumbfuck. It was entrapment. The jury agreed. You’re a moron. End of story.
NFA is unconstitutional. Any enforcement of it should be a crime.
The FBI is like that bloated HR department that is constantly interviewing people to show they're doing their job and justify their budget but never actually hires anyone.
Imagine if they took all the manhours and resources they wasted incriminating people for petty crap and actually went after real crime. But nope, we have to keep padding our arrest statistics with crimes we create so our budget doesn't get cut.
>The FBI is like that bloated HR department that is constantly interviewing people to show they're doing their job and justify their budget but never actually hires anyone.
>Imagine if they took all the manhours and resources they wasted incriminating people for petty crap and actually went after real crime. But nope, we have to keep padding our arrest statistics with crimes we create so our budget doesn't get cut.
This is an accurate description for the majority of law enforcement in our country, not just the FBI.
If they did that, they would be unemployed because their superiors would be in prison.
Your terms are acceptable.
I see this as an absolute win
Edit: a word
Remember that originally the only purpose of the FBI was to investigate the mob during prohibition
It would only take a single executive order to completely dissolve them
“At first, agents investigated mostly white-collar and civil rights cases, including antitrust, land fraud, banking fraud, naturalization and copyright violations, and peonage (forced labor).”
They’re too afraid to go after real criminals.
Even if the FBI went after "real crime" as you say, they would still be corrupt as Fuck and would not justify their existence. Just like the rest of law enforcement doesn't justify their existence. ACAB.
Like insider trading
This was ATF at first was it not?
The first time I read about Ruby Ridge, the first thought was "how busy body are these feds?" They went out of their way to make people go out of their way to commit crime.
Theyre really only good for serial killers and bombers, and serial rapists too i guess.
Frankly i dont trust em investigating any sort of trafficking rings, theyll probably just end up joining.
Pepperidge Farm remembers
The wild part is the scumbag DA actually charged him with the murders originally. This is why when cops are bad apples prosecutors are the ones pissing poison into its roots as they enable bad policing.
Remember when the fbi ignored the please of little girls on team usa and then just let a man molest them
This whole post is missing information. Randy Weaver was super bad. He was associating with anti-semitic groups.
Does this added information justify what happened to him?
Still didn't justify what the government did to him though.
A person having views you don't agree with does not justify the government coming in and murdering said person's family. How do you not see this? "Omg, he attended a couple of meetings with racist people, he's super bad and his family deserves to die horrible deaths"
I mean, it's not like he was saying white people are bad. He was hanging around some people who were saying jewish people are bad.
What the fuck
Hey, we all learned of this sort of information for the first time at some point… makes you happy to finally know the truth, but sad at the same time.
I didn't think they were being condescending; just memeing.
Wait till you hear about a little town in Texas called Waco.
Waco’s not a little town, that’s where Baylor University is and it has a population of 137K. It’s just that Mt Carmel was on the outskirts where a bunch of ranches were
Wasnt it a lot smaller in the 90s?
Wikipedia says it had 103K people in the 1990 census, so probably not
TIL, thank you.
Look up Ruby Ridge and prepare yourself for one hell of a blackpill.
To my knowledge no one was even so much as fired over this.
The sniper was investigated but all charges were unceremoniously dropped three days after 11 Sep, 2001. So yeah, no recourse.
“Crime fighting” is not their sole function. The FBI is also tasked with thwarting terrorism and domestic attacks by violent extremists. The Feds were in Idaho to watch monitor violent white nationalist groups. Weaver was mixed up with these guys, so the FBI tried to use him for information, which led to the sting operation. Now, there’s a lot fucked up about the police conduct/tactics in this case, but that’s nothing compared to a cowardly father intentionally placing his 10-yr-old son in harms way. Weaver knew the FBI was coming for him, that’s why he made his boy carry a rifle with him at all times, but chose to hold up on the property with his family instead of fighting the Feds away from his family. Imagine ignoring a criminal summons—knowing that the Feds will eventually come get you—and conscripting your kid to help defend you, telling the kid he needs to shoot at any Fed who enters their land, only for the kid to obey you by shooting/killing the first Fed he sees, and then feigning surprise that the Feds would shoot back. What kind of Jack ass tells his kids to shoot at police? I thought Libertarianism was all about personal responsibility? Why is this guy a Libertarian martyr when he shunned all his responsibilities? Weaver wanted a fight with the Feds—fair enough, I guess—but took ZERO proactive steps to ensure his family wasn’t caught in the cross fire. Seems like he knew the risks. Remember he told his family the BEFORE the raid that the FBI would be coming for them and that they needed to be prepared to fight. It seems like he disregarded those risks.
Yes, Ruby Ridge was the FBI’s fault, but Weaver created the situation that led to the tragedy. I abhor police violence and militarization, but I hate the demonization of entire government agencies (particularly the FBI, since they are perhaps the finest law enforcement agency in the world) for the purposes of pushing a political agenda. I hate the fetishization of fake martyrs even more. Weaver wasn’t a martyr.
this is a really, *really* shit take.
“I’m a libertarian but the FBI is the best crime fighting organization in the world” 🤡
>Weaver wasn’t a martyr.
Correct, he survived, his son and wife did not.
Fuck the FBI, ATF, NSA, and all other 3 letter abominations. Weaver did nothing wrong given he was entrapped.
>particularly the FBI, since they are perhaps the finest law enforcement agency in the world
They were actively entrapping Weaver - would you trust that corrupt of an agency to place you under arrest? Give up all of your freedoms to people you know for a fact don’t care about the rule of law?
"its totally his fault for beating the shit out of his wife but she shouldn't have acted in a way she knew would cause him to do it."
Based and reality-pilled
My old boss is a giant pile of shit. He brags about being there to help with that nonsense when he was in the National Guard. The whole thing is fucked up enough, then to think the National fucking Guard was involved in a corrupt civilian law enforcement operation.
Duty is duty sometimes, but if I were there I wouldn’t say a dam thing. He sounds like a douche bag.
If I were there I would be so ashamed of myself I would actively deny being there.
Sounds like an excuse a nazi would use
The NG is a standing army used domestically. Part time doesn't change that fact.
The operation wasn’t corrupt, the guy was a criminal. It was executed as badly as it could have been, though.
What’s his name?
Remember how the ATF spent three years just trying to convince him to saw off the shotgun barrels in the first place
Shh, shh, you'll anger the overlords
Say, that reminds me of that one tragedy
The one in Texas?
No, no. The other one
Do you know how little that narrows it down?
Its one tragedy after another
Euh...woosh back? He's referencing the batman beyond meme
Yeah, I 'member.
...and his little dog too!
Well that's just standard procedure. The ATF isn't going to show up to your house and not kill your dog. That would be crazy.
Does anybody have a source? I’m curious, because all I saw on the Wikipedia article about it is that and undercover agent approached Randy asking him to sell him sawed off shotguns, I didn’t see anything about the agent asking him to saw them off more
Wikipedia did not make any specific mention of the shotgun being cut twice. The nearest citation links to a book titled The Federal Siege. I could not find a PDF online and I am lazily ending my search there.
But because Wikipedia gets shit on in this subreddit, this is why Wikipedia is great.
If you don't trust Wikipedia, you can go to the library and get this ready available *primary* source written by Randy himself. Assuming it has the specifics of the interaction about it being cut twice, you can then go to the talk section of the wiki page and discuss the change or just make the change. So long as you can cite the page you found this information on it would hold water because it's a primary source.
Oh yeah, I saw his book cited on the page, but I figured it would just link to a preview rather than the full book. I’ll have to take another look
Even if that part isn't true just the part even Wikipedia is willing to acknowledge is still bullshit.
For sure, it really sounds like the whole sawed off shotgun sale was entrapment
Wikipedia is a Leftist front. Seriously.
Are you saying that a leftist front would intentionally obfuscate information critical of law enforcement?
I’ll assume that’s /S
Yes, of course they would. As long as law enforcement is violating the rights of those people the left deems as their enemies, the left loves law enforcement. See the current situation with Trump as well as how they believe only law enforcement should be allowed to have firearms
Sources are communist
Is this real? I have no reason to doubt it, just have never heard it before.
ruby ridge of course its real.
Very real. Anything and everything is done to erase it from history so people do not learn about it.
Wait til you read about what the fbi did to Fred Hampton
What about that time they had a bbq in texas
REMEMBER RUBY RIDGE
Let's not forget, he was given a false court date, and his family was murdered because he didn't appear to the actual date.
Yes we remember
Ruby Ridge was Americas Tiananmen Square.
Mostly because of how the respective government tries to pretend it didn’t happen
That whole thing took place just up the road from me.
Pep(Ruby)Ridge Farm remembers.
[One of my favorite songs](https://youtu.be/6bRxbu-9Hck) is about this.
Remember when a man could own property?
Don’t forget the FBI mailed a court summons with the wrong date (probably on purpose) and then set up a stealth raid on the home. Randy’s dog found them so the FBI killed the dog. All started because of the FBI. The settlement isn’t enough. The taxpayers flip the bill and not the bad actors.
This was disgusting and there should have been a lot of people thrown in prison over it.
This was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. That and the one where the ATF raided Waco and shot first according to an IR feed in a predator drone (1st known use real time I believe).
Isn't this guy a psycho? Like I distinctly remember him saying that he was an authoritarian and we need "a monster" to come save America or what the fuck ever.
Edit: *Not* Randy Weaver. I'm talking about the guy who made this tweet.
Weaver moved to Ruby Ridge with his family because he wanted to be left alone and be free of government interference. He wasn’t hurting or threatening anyone until the government decided it needed to make a mess.
Not Weaver, I'm fully in his corner on this issue. I'm talking about the guy who made the tweet.
Got it. I misread.
My fault for not clarifying, no sweat brother
This is a fake story of why ruby ridge occurred. Wow don’t be dumb.
Man this happened almost 30 years ago
I am as libertarian as they come, but Ruby Ridge was far more complicated than this post makes it out to be.
No, wheres the edutainment version of this story?
Separatism is only acceptable apparently if you're also anticolonial and a marxist
With the Trump raid a guy in my local discussion group was like "yeah you (non-lefty) types are all Defund Defund now". I just replied "Ruby Ridge". Dude stopped that trope shortly, he probably googled it.
Shot Randy's son in the back when their cover got blown
Sorry I don't know about this. Source?
I didn’t either. Just look up ruby ridge on utube
Had a look but couldn't see anything about them asking him to saw off more.
Someone on this comment thread said that detail is in Randy’s book. 🤷🏽♂️
Well then that's just hearsay from someone who is rightfully vengeful and clearly has some illogical viewpoints, so to me it's worth as much has the fbi's account.
Why do we allow this government to exist? Oh yeah, that’s right, they have standing armies.
This is a great accpunt of the whole thing:
"In one reasonable vision of ordered liberty, an undercover agent should not be able to ask a person to commit a crime, like selling him a sawed-off shotgun, and then help prosecute him when he does. But the defense of entrapment is a narrow one. Only when the person charged lacked “a predisposition” to commit the crime, or when the behavior of the government was shockingly unfair, does entrapment violate the Due Process Clause of the Constitution."
The man wasn’t a saint and shouldn’t be idolized.
So you agree that neither should George Floyd?
Weaver testified about his racial beliefs before a U.S. Senate Judiciary subcommittee in 1995, saying, "I'm not a hateful racist as most people understand it. But I believe in the separation of races. We wanted to be separated from the rest of the world, to live in a remote area, to give our children a good place to grow up.
Are you stigmatizing the victim as a racist in order to justify his murder?
Does that justify murdering his wife and son?
Implying that renders alphabet boy overreach acceptable
So how about you don’t use a racist as an example? Weaver’s troubles with the U.S. federal government began when he attended several meetings of the Aryan Nations, a white supremacist group, at its compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho, in the late 1980s. Weaver was not a member of the Aryan Nations, but he shared the group’s white supremacist and antigovernment views. At one of the meetings, Weaver befriended an informant of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), who purchased two illegal sawed-off shotguns from Weaver in October 1989.
Oh wow, the guy hung out with bigots. I guess that justifies spending three years trying to convince him to saw off the barrel of a shotgun, then when he relents, shoot his family and dog.
Remember folks, having a shotgun just one inch shorter than your neighbors justifies any violent actions against you.
It’s a conspiracy
So because of Randy Weaver, the FBI should no longer execute legal and beyond reasonable search warrants? Even for illegally procured top-secret nuclear documents? Is that what this is suggesting?
I wonder what Jesse thinks of the police. A few bad apples and some unfortunate unavoidable accidents every once in a while, I'm sure.
I suppose Randy and his family should have just complied with law enforcement and no one would have died right?
Yes, the FBI fucked up at Ruby Ridge but fuck Jesse Kelly.
The FBI didn’t fuck up, they planned and carried out everything from step one, yes the FBI, atf, cia, etc need defunding because they do things like this so they seem necessary and we don’t shut them down. I’m not saying to allow crimes like to to run rampant and unchecked, but our current system is NOT in favor of law abiding citizens
Research all the cointelpro surveillance and operations of the fbi as well as Hoover’s other illegal surveillance. The fbi literally sent letters to women’s homes in the 60s and 70s saying they are sleeping around if the fbi didn’t like that they were becoming political. It also used smoke bombs to try and disrupt college meetings for political groups it didn’t like.
Not exactly what happened. FBI fucked up by not announcing themselves (or actually I think it was US Marshals), but the guy refused to pay taxes and sold illegal firearms. He isn’t a hero, and he isn’t innocent.
> the guy refused to pay taxes and sold illegal firearms.
Sounds like a great guy to me
Sounds based AF to me.
I just stated facts…are libertarians as averse to those as Republicans?
Hear me out buddy. Look at Mitt Romney and McCain those are true republicans. Now radical libertarians are as delusional as trumpists or socialists just in a different way.
Probably shouldn’t have sawed ur off the second time, huh?
Like the entirety of the fucking Internet is the source. Even the government doesn't attempt to dispute this anymore...
I read up on it and seems like it is as much the guys fault as the gov. He was stockpiling weapons, threatening people, and was a white nationalist.
You should stop licking that boot polish before your brain is damaged further.
Haha personal attacks are so funny nice one
Stockpiling weapons isn't illegal. Everything he owned was perfectly legal to own. He also didn't have some massive cache by any stretch. Myself and pretty much everyone I know probably own more guns than he did. He also "stockpiled" everything. He was off grid, completely self-sufficient, etc. He had no criminal record. He served his country as a Green Beret. He just wanted to live in peace and be left the fuck alone to raise his family as he saw fit. He didn't threaten anyone. He was about as far removed from "anyone" as you can possibly get and basically everyone within miles of him was like minded and he was friendly with.
And he wasn't a "nationalist" of any sort. He was basically a fucking anarchist.
This is one particular narrative of the situation but I don’t see any sources on information
Did you at all follow the news at the time? Read the FBI report? The wrongful death suit? Anything? Literally anything?
ruby ridge. feds shot up a lot of his family including his wife while she was holding their infant in her arms. they basically had an undercover fed lead randy into violating federal firearms laws
Ok, thanks, when did this happen?
Oh man....the details make it so much worse. They basically entrapped this guy, Weaver into selling sawed off shotguns. ATF was sneaking up to his house to arrest him. Weavers son was out hunting with his dog. The dog sniffed out the agents trying to be sneaky, so they shot the dog. The son has no idea who these guys are so he shoots them back (I believe he ended up killing an agent). So, naturally, the agents kill his son. Now their found out, which leads to a stand off between Weaver, who is holed up in his house with his family and the ATF. In the mean time, a sniper shoots Weavers wife through the window, killing her. The thing is, they don't know she's dead. So for days, the ATF is asking Weaver to at least let his wife and kids go, and Weaver thinks they're mocking him, so he keeps digging in.
It's f'n wild, man.
This and Waco were the reasons Timothy McVeigh gave for the Oklahoma City bombing. I think he was even at one or both of the protests for each event.
The 90s were a little rough sometimes.
1992. after it all went down and the government threw bullshit charges at him i believe they were holding his trial as the government done their bullshit in waco texas