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skuzzlebutt36

Isn’t it insane that, now, the civilians can be documenting the war?


Flasagna

Yeah, everyone has a camera. It really is wild. Also, those cameras are almost all connected to everyone else’s cameras.


[deleted]

If the basic theory is correct, this should make wars less likely in the long run. I think that theory is correct. The war between Russia and Ukraine is very surreal. I'm interested but trying to be respectful in my interest. These are people dying. It is really important that it's all being documented though. Growing pains for our global culture, I suppose. No trend is perfect. For armchair analysis, I'm shocked Ukraine seems to have "won" the first day, in that the regime has not collapsed and the lines have held. I was not sure what to expect. That's a surprising outcome. Anything seems possible now. Good thoughts and wishes to all involved; hope you make it through safely. Edited for clarity.


Flasagna

It’s really sad to watch videos taken from the perspective of someone looking out their window and see acts of war. They are where they’ve always felt safe, and now that safety is gone because they could explode at any second if a fighter pilot targets their house. All they can do is look out the window and record, hoping they won’t be the victim in one of these videos. Edit: They can also flee, take shelter, help others, or take up arms. Just felt sad so wrote sad, my bad.


mca62511

> It’s really sad to watch videos taken from the perspective of someone looking out their window and see acts of war. It’s the faint reflections of the inside of their home that you can see in the windows that affects me. It reminds me of when I'm trying to use my phone to catch a video of like... a rainbow outside my window. Except it's a war, not a rainbow.


cakevictim

This could be any of our homes. It’s very chilling seeing this in real time, from regular people like me.


DepNazi

Yeah that really hit me too. I could imagine myself looking out my window and seeing that


ytman

Don't apologize, it is sad.


breadandbutter123456

I’m not sure you can say Ukraine has won the first day. Ariel bombardment, incursions into their territory, Kiev airport being targeted in an initial attack in preparation for the full scale attack. It seems to me to be going exactly how Russia wants it go.


[deleted]

I suppose it is all relative. I have no clue what Russia's strategy is. I sort of figured the Ukrainian military would either collapse immediately from overwhelming odds or else fight the Russians to a ceasefire. I am no expert whatsoever, but I don't think even Russia can afford a war like this longer than a few weeks (months?) if they decide to go all-in and surround the major cities, and defeat the whole Ukrainian Army in the field. Not losing on the first day could be half the war. But I am wholly unqualified to define what counts as winning or losing. I should say only that I am surprised.


AVerybigPinecone

Ukraine hasn’t won, they haven’t lost however. That’s the most surprising part about this all. The Ukranians have been preparing for this eventuality, they’re a bunch of tough sons of bitches. Go get em’!


ThatOtherGuy_CA

Ukraine doesn’t even need to “win” they just need to keep not losing, every casualty they can draw out of the Russians puts mounting pressure for infighting against Putin.


Choyo

Yes, this, Putin is supposed to keep his job until 2036, the only thing that can go against him is social pressure. The longer this lasts, the more piled up the sanctions are, the more likely he will be removed.


Squirrel_Grip23

Like the British and Irish will tell you, winning can be a nebulous concept when foreign occupation comes into the equation. Ask the Vietnamese and Americans or the Israelis and Palestinians. People fight tooth and nail for a place to call home.


Mosh83

Guerilla warfare in a country the size of the Ukraine can last years, if Ukrainians have the resolve, and it seems they do. Mightier armies have tried against weaker forces and failed. Opposition on the home front will grow as the years pass.


Big_Time_Watts

Yeah ever since Crimea major allies (US, UK, France, Germany, etc) have been equipping and training the Ukrainian forces. A javelin missile, one of the best anti-tank weapons the US provides to Ukraine, can be fired by a single operator, has auto lock, and can penetrate 750mm+ of rolled homogenous armor. It can bring a building filled with an enemy platoon down on its ass. Pair that with a landmass that's 45% larger than Vietnam, a corollary for a failed occupation, two major mountain ranges (Carpathian and Crimean), and roughly 245,000 active duty Ukrainian military who are split into 10-man platoons with 3 fire teams. That's 24,500 guerilla units (not even including their militia and conscripts) fucking your cavalry (tanks) and occupying soldiers 24/7 365. How long before occupying soldiers grow tired of seeing their brothers getting their cocks blown off by IEDs at the hands of their neighbors for a piece of dirt? Ukraine doesn't have to "hold" anything. They just have litter the soil they grew up on with Russian dead until the war effort is no longer worth the cost to an already fragile Russian economy. And Ukraine won't soon run out of money with NATO pumping them full of arms and mercenaries. You can bet your ass private armies for hire will soon be joining, full of former special forces who like killing and making money for doing it. Russia doesn't have a fucking chance in hell.


wheatbread257

[I asked my friend who is in the US Merchant Marine Academy about what he thought Russia’s strategy was and this is what he sent me.](https://imgur.com/gallery/SJvIy83)


Helenium_autumnale

Interesting perspective. So we in the West should be supplying the material to build secure encrypted comms, not just bullets and flak jackets. Communications seem to be the key factor, or, weapon, in what your friend said.


Fidodo

Communication has been the key factor in every war.


Onepiecee

Interesting. I was wondering if and when the bombs will start dropping heavily. Putin knows Zelenskyy is not going anywhere, and he first and foremost wants to murder him right? It's really hard to think about the civilians that are scared and dying because of an evil imperialistic loser. It makes me extremely anxious to put myself in the shoes of Zelensky's family, himself, the troops, and all of the citizens. It's horrifying. I also wonder if any country is going to back Ukraine before they get defeated? I hope that they don't lose, but Russia's military is larger. Of course, the Ukrainians are fighting for their homeland. They are angry. They stand a chance. But still, it seems unlikely. I recall Putin saying that any country interfering will cause him to play the nuclear game, but I heavily doubt he wants to see his entire country get obliterated and his own demise. I call his bluff there. But it's a chance I'm sure no one wants to take. So, is the entire world going to really sit back and watch this happen without helping? - And I do mean helping with military force.


crispykremee

I'm afraid he's not bluffing. There are several countries that would most likely back Russia up if ever another country interferes.


Onepiecee

I wonder the same. If he is bluffing or not. But he would also know that his entire country would be turned to ash and rubble, right? Which other countries would back up Russia? I'm assuming the obvious Belarus and Crimea, but who else?


SPzero65

I think the closer Putin gets to losing (and let's be honest, there is really no reasonable way this ends any way other than badly for him in the long run, no matter how it ends in the short term), the more dangerous he will become. At that point he'll be a wouded animal with nothing to lose but his pride, and that is the one thing he will refuse to relinquish. If ever he was going to push the button in one last blaze of glory, that would be it.


Vysair

China? Their alliance is questionable but they are in the opposite site of the US-NATO so... Not to mention how much foothold China have on the world stage


Midgar918

Probably China at this point. China will be keeping Russias economy a flout in light of the sanctions already. The best outcome for Russia is obviously in Chinas best interest for so many reasons.


FellatioAcrobat

That nuclear threat is very complicated once you dig into the ramifications of making it, and daring various enemies to make it, and their various capabilities to use first strike advantage or not. Putin already eliminated some possibilities for peace & fucked himself over somewhat by even saying what he did, but it can get a lot worse still. There is no reason to think he or another country won’t detonate a nuclear weapon by the time this is over. And if that’s the case, then that changes everything, and Russia will certainly be destroyed, with or without whoever they thought they were fighting. It’s not as simple as go nuclear = destroy the world. There is a lot of gray area in between and Putin knows he can live in it.


blarron

Maybe Ukraine is a distraction. Putin is hoping NATO send troops to make it easier for Putins allies to cause other havoc.


CMDR_Expendible

This just shows how hopelessly disconnected from reality Reddit is becoming, even on issues where they might have the moral high ground. [The Russo-Georgian War was not only a Russian *victory*, it was over in 12 days.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War) Even the basic historical facts claimed are outright wrong, but Reddit will accept friend-of-a-friend claims about entire tactical doctrines based upon those incorrect claims. Russia lost a few aeroplanes in Georgia it is true; not to cyber-war, but because Georgia had some of the same Russian technology. And despite what Reddit (and SpaceX fans) want to insist, Russian anti-air systems are *terrifyingly good*. Even generations old ones. The difference is, Russia has always been prepared to fight wars where it'll take losses. It went into Ukraine knowing they'd take them again, but it doesn't care. Did Russia experiment with geo-locating targets there? Yes, but they've been practicing this for a very long time all over; infamously in Chechnya where they used cruise missiles on local jihadists who were careless with mobile phones. But posts like this will get upvoted because it's what Reddit *wants* to believe, despite being laughably ill informed. Well done Reddit, "we got Putin!" Sigh.


Snoo_said_no

Ukraine is not some little place. Its the second largest country in Europe. Largest if you don't count Russia.


Valkyrie17

How does Ukraine holding off for first day surprise you? They are a 40 million people nation, armed to their teeth by the west, very dedicated and the entire world sees them as heroes now. On the other side we have troops that in many cases hadn't been told they are invading Ukraine until the very last day. Very little motivation, contract soldiers in it for the money, some of them have surrendered, because, well, they don't want to fight.


[deleted]

Well, again, I'm no expert. But this is the part which is my unqualified opinion. Based on the news, and on the invasion of Crimea in 2014, and on the cost of war in general, I assumed that the first day would have to include successfully decapitating the government and the military command. Especially given the advanced nature of the combatants. I think the fact that this did not happen shows that the Ukrainians had/have measures in place to fight past the initial shock, which I find surprising for any nation when they are attacked by one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world. Again, this is my unqualified opinion. I just don't think most military powers are prepared to absorb that first punch from a sophisticated foe even when you think they might be.


queen-adreena

The problem is that Russia is coming from the north, the east and the south. And Ukraine seems to be struggling to move its troops at all. They are defending their positions well, but a lot of them are stuck defending secondary targets rather than being able to pull back to Kiev.


Valkyrie17

>Well, again, I'm no expert. Well, yeah. In 2014 Ukraine had a revolution, removed their Russia-friendly president, had Donetsk and Luhansk rise up and a general chaos in the country. In 2022 Ukraine has been preparing militarily for 8 years, has received support from every western nation and, after invasion of Crimea, there is little doubt even in Russians living in Ukraine that Russia is not their friend.


[deleted]

It is just really impressive to me. Sorry for being impressed. I think most nations capitulate immediately under those circumstances and only a few militaries are actually capable of surviving the first day without falling apart.


CMDR_Expendible

Iraq didn't fall apart on the first day of the invasion despite going against the United States and United Kingdom, the world's largest and 4th largest military, and despite being under sanctions and allied air control for over a decade after losing a prior war. And the insurgency never stopped in the next 20 years either. What Russia did was illegal and immoral; they will relatively easily win this war, but fail to supress justified resistance; but the propaganda you see on Reddit, just because people want to be seen to be supporting Ukraine, is equally disconnected from reality. Look up how far a modern armoured unit can go in a day. Look up how long it took US tanks to get to Baghdad... because it was nearly a month before they arrived. *You cannot physically capture an entire country in a day.* It's not even known if these videos are showing an "aircraft", some reports are suggesting it's actually a cruise missile brought down. It doesn't make much difference in the long run; Russia will never have expected to have taken no losses... after all, they're both using some of the same equipment so they know what it can do. Their mistake is assuming that Ukraine would ever want to be Russian after being devastated now... but they *will* be devastated. All people are doing now is sharing wonderful stories like unknown air aces because they want feel good stories to try and cope with the suffering now. When Baghdad Bob did it though, when people dared to spin against *our* illegal wars, we laughed at him and recognised it as blatant propaganda. The fact that the Russians are pushing an illegal invasion doesn't mean any of these stories or perceptions are true though. The real reckoning will come later.


JamisonDouglas

I agree with everything in your comment other than stating that Ukraine have won the first day. They've done as well as they could have, and I don't think they will go down without a fight. But they haven't won anything. Realistically the manpower and material advantage will rule. This is more or less exactly how Russia want the early stages to go. Chaotic scattered fighting to get their troops seperated and to take out the home field advantage by causing damage to Ukraine'sinfrastructure and limited (in the scheme of Ukraine Vs Russia) equipment. Disrupt airfields and get a foothold etc etc. The slower Russia can play it the better for them, gives them time to wittle down the defences of Ukraine without throwing their own men into the proverbial meat grinder. Things get a lot easier when Russia manage to successfully capture and hold a few airfields. I hope for Ukraine, but realistically unless they get serious support in the form of soldiers and equipment, or peace is miraculously reached, it's a case of when, not if, they fall. However that is unlikely considering the fact it'll lead to a global conflict and likely devolve to throwing radioactive balls of fire at each other. The wildcard option is someone assassinates Putin. However I wouldn't hold my breath for that. All they can do is give them hell until one of the 3 above scenarios plays out. And ultimately help isn't likely to come. And Russia won't sue for peace. Just hope as many people can flee to neighbouring countries to avoid the bulk of the bloodshed.


[deleted]

Are we sure though? Everyone has all these opinions about what Russia is or isn't capable of versus Ukraine. I think that's impossible to judge given the novel things involved compared to any other war in recent memory. It is entirely possible that novel tactics and strategies could make the Russian invasion bog down; especially if weapons and ammo continue to arrive from the west. I don't think it makes sense to give it to Russia automatically. Anything is possible. I am of the opinion that not having a defending government and entire military chain of command destroyed in the first hours of a conflict between two 21st century foes who share a border is a "win", for the defender. But perhaps it is strong language, and you may be right.


Grary0

Russia was probably expecting a quick and easy win, I wouldn't say Ukraine has "won" but the way they've held out so far has got to be making some Russian Generals sweat. I feel like someone high up is losing their job or their life over this mess.


JarasM

I'm no armchair expert, but we're only on day 2. Even if Russia was expecting an easy win, I think it would be still considered "easy" if they took Ukraine in a month or so.


Wulfrinnan

Hopefully many people high up in Russia lose their lives over this.


ThatOtherGuy_CA

Maybe we’ll be lucky and Putin will put two bullets in the back of his head and then jump from a building. Because if this Ukrainian invasion backfires I don’t see anyone staying loyal to him.


Fidodo

War is easier to sell to your people when they're disconnected and don't have to see the impact of it. It's like police brutality. It's easy to assume they're in the right and justified when you don't see what they're doing, but when it's on camera there's no hiding.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Maybe you're right. All we can do is pay attention and hope people get through it okay. small correction: The battle of Baghdad seems to have taken six days, while it took three weeks to get there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Fall_of_Baghdad_(April_2003)


ProfessorPetrus

Need to say this first, Russia is completely unjustified in attacking Ukraine. That said, I wish people in the middle east had more cell phones during the last 20 years of US invasion. People need to see what poor people on both sides are experiencing.


Exsces95

At the very least, historical genocides of civilians and mass rapes like the ones the japanese army committed during WW2 are definitely less likely to happen.


static1053

Its actually a good thing because after all is said and done nobody can deny the things they(russia) did during it.


Munnin41

You think evidence will stop them from denying everything?


doublecurved

‘History is written by the victors’ seems to be less applicable here in the future.


[deleted]

“History is editorialized by the victors” perhaps still applies. In 100 years, Russia’s stance will be that the great Vladimir Putin had to “de-nazify” Ukraine at all costs to save the world from the next holocaust, or some nonsense.


elysianyuri

Why is Putin and gang calling Ukraine a Nazi nation. Like, where did this theory even come from


bucephalus26

azov battelion is literaly a neo-nazi unit in the Ukranian National Guard. It is just one, small unit, but Putin is using it as part of his casus belli. absolute cunt.


ikeyama

Btw it was disbanded and no longer exists. "Right Sector" was also disbanded. And then Ukraine elected jewish president


ExistedDim4

Our last two presidents are jewish + the current one is usually russian-speaking


CaptianAcab4554

>Like, where did this theory even come from As far as I can tell the Russian invasion in 2014 was heavily blunted in part by the rapid mobilization of militias of which there were a couple ad hoc battalions that openly declared themselves as neonazis like the Azov battalion. Russia has been using the photos they took of themselves posing with swastika flags as propaganda tools for a while now.


Ensec

those damn nazi countries with their jewish presidents!


fartimmy22

My shakey nervous arse would be under the bed crying for mercy...


Diligent-Background7

If history books are still a thing in the future, this era is going to be a crazy chapter


Andre4kthegreengiant

For today's lesson on the 2022 Ukraine conflict, kindly navigate your browser to xXxSophie52xXx's Instagram


static1053

Yeah. I saw a tiktok video of a russian paratrooper jumping out of a plane and parachuting into Ukraine....laughing like it was fucking fortnite.


yazzy1233

Link?


doesntgeddit

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russian-paratrooper-selfie-tiktok/


[deleted]

This is why Satellite internet should never not be a thing. As long as I have power and Kansas isn't occupied by Russians, I have internet.


TitShark

Putin has every drop of blood on his hands


dingboodle

And he’s probably licking them and smiling like a total psycho.


v-dubb

BJ Penn style.


Theons-Sausage

Hopefully Putin gets drunk as shit and some random fat dude in a parking lot knocks him out.


imeanyhbutno

A lot of Russian military are starting to become defective and most sane civilians also just want peace. Could all lead to a civil war.


DreMin015

> A lot of Russian military are starting to become defective Is there a story out there that shows this? I haven’t heard anything about it


burgerstar

Right.. I did read about a platoon of Russians surrendering to Ukraine forces because they didn't know they were sent there to kill Ukrainians and would do no such thing. But other than that one story, I've seen nothing much else about the military doing anything other than what putin wants.


static1053

He was standing waist deep in blood before this war. Hes drowning in it now.


Adorable_Highway_740

I wish he was drowning, Revelling in it more likely


jbcraigs

He has already killed enough people while whole world just sat by and did nothing! Hope this time is different but I am not holding my breath!


HACKERB22015

Poor pilot, no one wants war, neither Russians, neither Ukrainians, I feel bad for everyone who's involved in this Except putin


[deleted]

[удалено]


Duke-Von-Ciacco

Maybe this pilot was motherless and fatherless. And was just really really passionate about Putin, supporting his vision of imperialism and a extreme right supporter with radical views over religion, freedom and woman’s rights. Edit: /s of course. I didn't think there was a need to be specific. as the user below says, we cannot know anything about the people involved in the conflict. I wanted to make some sarcasm about this, it was not a serious comment.


Successful-Oil-7625

Maybe maybe maybe


MiddleAgedGrump

Has anyone been able to confirm if the shot down aircraft was Russian or Ukrainian?


i_wap_to_warcraft

I know the title says Russian but I’m watching the news right now and they’re saying it’s Ukrainian hit by Russian surface to air. Russian troops are 20 miles outside of the city and Russian special forces have been seen within 10-15 miles.


jason955

CNN indicated it was Ukrainian plane shot down by Russian anti aircraft weapon


SemicolonMIA

I actually heard it was Ukrainian by Agenda Free TV but maybe I am wrong?


jason955

Then he came out and said otherwise shortly after


DarkseidHS

It sucks that the pilot is probably just some guy that did not want to do what he's forced to be doing. Fuck war, fuck putin.


thisisBigToe

hmnn sounds familiar.. guess that goes for every war started by whatever party, would be nice to have a boxing match between the leaders and thats it. No need to wager so many lives... But to be fair though, I think Putin would beat many other leaders bare hands.


Galaxy-High

Fuck all politicians, fuck the system.


izguddoggo

I saw this exact clip on the news and they said this was a Ukrainian plane.


InsignificantOcelot

Yeah, I’ve seen a whole bunch of claims about what it is. I’m just assuming everything is fog of war right now. We’ll know eventually, but think it’s best to be skeptical of all info until confirmed by a few unique sources.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PanicAtTheFishIsle

Every video has a selection of contradicting posts, just go through them…. “It’s Russian” “ ist Ukrainian” “its from 2014” “it’s not even Ukraine” Just goes to show how easy the internet is manipulated.


annies_story

It’s crazy to think that it could be Russian bots pumping the idea that Ukraine is winning... what better way to mask their advance and have potential Ukrainian allies/the internet public equivocate on whether they require support or not


Pog_Man_

Dear god...


[deleted]

this is objectively horrifying, not just in the current situation but for all moving forward. we're all at the whim of our screens. every single one of us is susceptible to misinfo. innate human sense of confirmation bias only worsens this.


[deleted]

[удалено]


terribleforeconomy

Something something in war truth is the first casualty.


filans

Reddit front page is making it look like Ukraine is winning left and right. Those are the kind of posts that get upvoted. If you browse new or controversial, there’s actually a number of concerning news about the war situation.


motorblonkwakawaka

The way I'm thinking of it - I follow the broad picture from a number of media live feeds (Moscow Times, Al Jazeera, BBC) who seem to have a more tempered and non-sensational view of what's happening. Reddit is interesting for smaller details that don't get picked up on by the MSM, at least until later. We heard about the "Russia warship go fuck yourself" many hours before I saw it reported in any of the big news outlets. A lot of the civilian videos I've seen here havent appeared in MSM either. So I think as long as one brings common sense about can and can't be verified on Reddit, both are a good way to get a fuller picture.


Vomit_Tingles

My exact thought on reading the title was "how do you know," sad either way.


BGFlyingToaster

Yep. The Ukrainian government confirmed that it was a Ukrainian fighter jet.


[deleted]

source? not arguing, genuinely interested


creepflyer

Whole day was the same thing about any tank/trucks on fire. Everyone always claiming it's a russian loss even tho there is no proof. Internet propaganda is making it look like ukraine is winning, while russians are at kiyv doorstep already


XRT28

>while russians are at kiyv doorstep already I mean they're invading from Belarus so they basically started at their doorstep...


Stuhl

Reminds me of a thing that some older Germans said: The news reports of victories at various cities, but each day, the cities are more and more closer to Germany.


WhitePawn00

>while russians are at kiyv doorstep already While **there are claims that** Russians are at kiyv doorstep already


creepflyer

They are attacking Hostomel, that is 30ish km away from kiyv. There is news about infiltration in kiyv that was neutralized not long ago. Sources: [https://twitter.com/PrytSLU/status/1497113716977979393](https://twitter.com/PrytSLU/status/1497113716977979393) [https://twitter.com/Novynarnia/status/1497114865026187264](https://twitter.com/Novynarnia/status/1497114865026187264) The ukraining defense confirmed the infiltration was neutralized [https://liveuamap.com/](https://liveuamap.com/) Here you can see how the war is going and news with sources about the attacks. The site is unstable tho, it's a hot hour with the morning rising, lots of attacks were happening


Inevitable-Cell-1227

Ugh….this is terrible. People are dying because a megalomaniac wants to flex. This won’t end well for Russia.


goongoof

Yup, that lunatic is leading them right off a cliff


misteryhiatory

Sad part is he thinks his people are lemmings. There are already hints of deserters from the Russian army.


no-kooks

Lemmings are actually a good analogy as they don’t actually jump off cliffs, but rather, were pushed by Disney crew because their “documentary” footage wasn’t sexy enough.


JustChillDudeItsGood

Wait - wh


Unicorn187

The whole lemmings running off cliffs is a myth that Disney pushed. At most there are some who fall while they are migrating, but they don't fling themselves off like everyone thinks. Disney used clever camera angles to make a couple dozen look like hundreds. They might have gotten the idea because sometimes lemmings will swim across a small lake or river, but if they get too wet they will sink and drown.


_crash0verride

Let’s not call them deserters, let’s call them freedom fighters because we all know at this point the idea that Russia functions as anything other than an authoritarian dictatorship is silly.


Max_farsteps

They are deserters. However, a deserter does not always have to be a bad thing. I think deserting is only bad if you are in the defending party.


Alwaysunder_thegun

That's always been what Russian war is .


Unicorn187

As sad as it is to say, their biggest contribution to WWII in Europe was the bodies they flung at Hitler and the willingness to lose 14 million people and keep throwing people at him.


No-Split-866

This won't end well for a lot of people


ThatRandonNerd

Putin basically wants to bring back the USSR like the good old days


manthisusernamesweak

Bread lines all around!


[deleted]

[удалено]


MomToCats

Or maybe his own people will drag him to a basement, shoot him, and bury his body in a pit. One can hope.


zergling3161

I forgot what I was watching but she made a good point. She said Putin was getting older and wants to make a legacy for herself. So he would like to expand Russia's territories. A pretty shitty way to take a lot of lives but some dumb old man wants to be remembered apparently


humpy

> Putin was getting older and wants to make a legacy for herself. I see no errors.


tsailfc

Honest question, why wouldn't it end well for Russia? Isn't Russia's military stronger than Ukraine's?


inactiveuser247

Yeah but now they are really going to piss off a lot of people. The west only has a passing concern for the people of Syria and Chechnya, Ukraine looks a lot more like Western Europe than either of those places.


14sierra

America's military was about 1000x stronger than anything Vietnam or Afghanistan had and both those adventures ended pretty poorly. Militarily conquering a weaker country is fairly easy, subduing a populace is another matter entirely.


06510127329387

exactly, the defending country is fighting for their homes. They know the areas and places they can hide, can blend in among the other citizens, and are willing to fight like hell. The invading army, on the other hand, may not even be totally behind their cause--if they are just following orders from a president. Not saying a much weaker army can always win in such a situation, and the invading army may very well be able to quickly roll over major cities and take large bits of territory, but that doesn't mean the people in that territory won't make it very hard for them.


NaIgrim

While true, Ukraine's landscape offers nowhere near the benefits a jungle like Vietnam's or mountainrange like Afghanistan provided for their guerilla movements.


Palifaith

"Older men declare war. But it is youth that must fight and die." Herbert Hoover


TheSquishiestMitten

"Society crumbles when old men take shits they know they won't have to clean up." - some Reddit comment I saw earlier.


user_name_checks_out

"I have seen that quote on reddit a hundred times in the last twenty four hours" -me


Ben_Wah_Balls

Press X to Continue.


Night_OwI

>Politicians hide themselves away > >They only started the war > >Why should they go out to fight? > >They leave that role to the poor \- "War Pigs", Black Sabbath


FUThead2016

This is so sad. These are peoples homes. This horror is happening in the sky above peoples homes. People like you and me. And why? So that some power hungry lunatic gets to have an ego trip. It’s devastatingly sad


AtDawnsEnd502

I can’t even praise one country or another because neither of its citizens wanted to go to war. All I feel is hatred for Putin for putting everyone in this situation. Russian or Ukrainian, it’s a terrible feeling knowing someone’s son, daughter, mother or father was in the jet and shot down due to this unnecessary battle. I feel so gutted and ill.


HaroerHaktak

How can you not praise Ukraine at all? Unless I am mistaken, Ukraine didnt want to have a war at all.


goodtalkruss

While I agree with the humane sentiment, you can definitely praise the victim over the aggressor. Russia owns 100% of the blame here.


Kayodeydawg

Thats a Ukrainian SU-27 that was confirmed not Russian, It was shot down by Russian AA in the suburbs


Simson_ART

Correct, the wreckage shows an ukrainian paint scheme of a SU-27


lujimerton

Maybe, maybe not. Russia has been dicking around on social media for so long that nothing pro-Russia is credible anymore. Hopefully it was an Su-24 cratering into the ground.


Kayodeydawg

https://twitter.com/angry_staffer/status/1497051899455057934?s=21


m-baiter

Even if the pilot was Russian, It's still just a soldier following orders. It's either going AWOL or being sent to his death. Casualties on both sides have to be acknowledged, because at the end of the day, they're still human, who lived actual lives, only to be sacrificed as pawns for idiotic leaders and their ideologies. Really, there are no winners in war.


Motosurf77

Agree I think of the news that these parents will get on both sides.. terrible.


Grary0

This is probably a dumb question but is this the first "modern" war between 2 developed nations? We've had wars in third world countries for decades at this point but I feel like this is the first war between nations in a while, it will be interesting to see how big a role technology and internet access among citizens plays in this conflict.


Aquila21

Depends on how you define “3rd world” Iraq was pretty developed before the first gulf war, though their equipment was about 20 years behind at the time. However I think that’s true for a lot of Ukrainian equipment like planes and what little armour they have as well. It’s certainly the first war with widespread cellphone and social media usage between two sovereign nations. Up till now we had seen that only in civil wars or insurgencies.


ripecantaloupe

Yes. No modern nation has done true all out war with another modern nation in this jet fighter era. We’ve had plenty of scraps involving nations too poor or enemies too underdeveloped to have such equipment and operate it skillfully. This is the first time these type jets are facing each other in a traditional “dogfight” scenario, where the destruction of the enemy is the only thing that matters.


CasualDasual

It seems like a dumb question but honestly im not sure I know the answer either. I see what you mean and it seems likely. Like this is outside of apartment buildings in a square recorded on an iphone


shellchef

Stay away from the windows!, put cloth and sheets on them, record only with your hand covered, exposing only the phone. Blast can cause windows to explode. Keep low, and avoid reflective surfaces! ​ Please stay safe!


Textbook-Velocity

What’s up with reflective surfaces?


Sarcism

You don't want to be mistaken for a sniper.


Textbook-Velocity

Jesus fuck


therealflyingpotato

Sadly that's a Ukranian Su 27 shot down by Russian SAM


ExpertAttempt

This was a Ukrainian plane taken out by Russian AA. Beware the fog of war, disinformation is running rampant rn.


Shreyash_Jha_5813

Dear Ukrainians! I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed. It's a lie. If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid. Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now. YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!! proof that you no longer need visa: • ⁠in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • ⁠in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en #copied from /u/everysir to spread awareness! please spread on relevant threads to get the word out!!!


SHOkir

men between 18 and 60 aren't being let out of ukraine due to marshal law, no matter how much much other cointries are willing to help, men are forced to fight anyway


Mission_Sleep600

This was a Ukainian plane shot down and it hit an apartment building that is still be extinguished. For fuck sake look up sources before you post.


ManualEstragon

Actually, I think this is a Ukrainian plane shot down by Russians.


iCastFoetusDeletus

I hate this. Because it's putin we hate. The Russian troops are just following shitty orders. May god have mercy on their souls.


Fafnir22

What a pointless waste of life.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Dependent-Rich5290

The problem is that Russia has a mandatory military service for men when the graduate so some of they don't even want to fight, they just have to


Character_Switch5085

It'd be better if they just disarm and defect. They're just pawns of Putin.


from_dust

Every soldier is a pawn of the leader they fight under. Every. Single. One. The guys in uniform are the victims of the guys in suits.


LawrenceRigbyEsquire

I disagree, some soldiers are literally defending their homes against an invader


Unremarkabledryerase

Good way to get you and your family shot.


sausagecatdude

Or even worse, disappeared.


Unremarkabledryerase

Nah they still get shot, just means they aren't as busy and can burn the bodies.


Lostmyvcardtoafish

i feel sorry for those “russian cunts” because i doubt too many want to be there in the first place. Putin’s war


knovit

It’s easy to say that, but those Russian cunts are forced into the military and most likely don’t want to be fighting either.


shotthroughtheshart

Easy for us to think/talk about from the sidelines but for those in the action, those Russian cunts are simply targets. Can’t afford to humanize them when they’re trying to kill you, even if they don’t really want to kill you.


poopellar

Russian soldiers will be saying the same thing about the Ukrainian soldiers. Dehumanizing someone is painting them as non human, putting a mask over a face, making it more palatable to kill them. Not justifying their ideals but understand how anyone and everyone is prone to being exposed to lies and propaganda and start believing in the most wrong. They are brainwashed and to die after being manipulated to believe in such things is extremely unfortunate.


_crash0verride

War is hell and Putin is a fucking coward. Unfortunately, until the Russian people stop Putin, they’re forces are still the enemy.


sausagecatdude

They are on the wrong side. If enough Russian cunts don’t die then Ukraine doesn’t stay free. They can desert if they like, other than that they need to die. Death is sad but right now it is necessary and today is not the day for sympathy. When the guns are covered in rust and the artillery stands quite then and only then can we mourn.


C9177

That's a fair point, I admit. The Ukrainians have no choice right now either, and since they're the ones being invaded by a much larger country trying to end their sovereignty I hafta root for them, and the more they kill the longer they survive. It's horrible, but how it is unfortunately.


The_Karaethon_Cycle

Well that’s too goddamn bad for them


stmuxa

Agree, even though it was Ukranian aircraft


Disastrous_Sky7568

Yeah, it's like we totally choose where we are born and what government we fall under!


Amazing-Row-5963

That's just heartless. Yeh, let's kill the Russians. The little guy has no choice here, whether Ukrainian or Russian.


statechamp502

Fuck this


bustyodust

Are we allowed to call on the Russians of Reddit? Where are you guys?


RedofPaw

/r/Russia is on lock down. Threads are bring nuked and locked.


peeniebaby

That’s probably one, two, or maybe more young able bodied people being sacrificed for the ego of a maniac. What a way to go, though, I guess.


TheUltimateEntity

It’s the other way around..


statechamp502

Fuck this and fuck all governments they don’t represent us anymore. People want peace


SaltyDoggoMeo

It’s difficult to imagine how these folks feel.


GypsyCamel12

Was it "the Ghost"?


Gymnast_SRY

That's a Ukrainian SU-27. Shot down by Ukrainian SAM. Blue on Blue.


KillJoy-Player

So is it manned? If it is, then it's hard to get happy about it, either the man believes on Putin or not.


Winterfoot

This was a Ukrainian plane unfortunately :(


Catchense

This is a ukrainian Su-27


Andez1248

I hope the people below are fine. Better to be hit with metal scraps than bullets/bombs though


tentimestenisthree

other reports say it was a ukranian plane shot down by russian SAM. Please don't speculate


TheZFiles

I'm sorry but, taken*


ephemeralfugitive

I refuse to believe this Ukrainian-Russian war is as one-sided as Reddit is making me believe. All I’ve seen is: * x Russian soldiers killed * x Russian tanks bombed * x Russian troops surrender peacefully to Ukraine forces * Russian websites ddosed and shut down (for a few hours, I think) * Russian aircraft gunned down


GreenieQueenie

May (Whoever your) god is rest your souls, find peace, no one wants this.


[deleted]

*Ukrainian jet shot down


misteryhiatory

Better not be the Ghost of Kyiv if was a Ukrainian


[deleted]

I'd love to believe that story, but i got a feeling it's just propaganda