A Native American tribe re-purchased their original land. A conservative reacts.
By - DrMDQ
There was nothing fair and square about the whole thing. So many broken treaties and outright slaughters which included women and children.
“Genocide is ok as long as it happens to someone else” -the guy in red
I wonder how he would feel if someone conquered him and took his house fair and square? Maybe change his tune. Probably not who the fuck am I kidding.
"That's why I have an AR-15! If they didn't want their homes invaded, they should have had superior firepower!"
unironically their take
And yet ironically passed down from the British empire. Or as they called it, standard operating procedure.
And yet, they unironically want a Trump King Lineage
Unironically I would rather go out guns blazing than surrender to a conqueror. If they kill me, then they get what they want and I don't have to see what they'll do.
That's the logic.
Guns blazing? No, strategic retreat as the thermite bags in the attic get their long fuse lit. If I can't have it, no one will.
Life has many doors, fedboi
Unfortunately for these manics, "scorched earth tactics" aren't really going to deter people after their house. The plot is more valuable than the building itself a lot of the time. Plenty of potential investors would be overjoyed that they demolished the building for free so now they can put up whatever they want.
I for one would be very pleased to find someone's cleared the canvas for me. The 'lived in by someone else' effect isn't a desirable one when I'm looking for property.
There ain't much of a line between arson and illegal dumping of toxic waste.
Poison the well before you go, too.
So what happens if they get eminent domain’d/foreclosed/evicted
They's protectin' they property agin' the tyrranical gubmint!
Side note, but I really hate how some folks fantasize about getting into shootouts.
Way too many folks talking about wanting to kill people, with the assumption that they’ll be the ones on the winning end.
I have a hypothesis that there's an enormous number of people who have deep-seated desires to be serial killers, but they have enough self-control not to act on it because the ramifications of being caught are more than they're willing to risk. It's not that serial killers are an anomaly and an aberration in humanity; rather, there are thousands and thousands of people who want to commit murder but don't out of fear of going to prison. For a few people that concern is overwhelmed by the urge to kill. There's a very fine line that the rest desperately want to cross, and having legal justification would allow them to exercise their darkest fantasies.
i think you're not necessarily wrong but may be overestimating the statistics and how sincerely people hold that belief about themselves and/or how much it would hold up to any practical examination of such. there's a reason military training spends a lot of its time breaking down soldiers' reservations against killing and even that isn't sufficient to make many of them truly inoculated against the ramifications of taking other humans' lives-- and while it's very much the case that there are desensitizing, empathy-dulling, and violence-incentivizing aspects at the front and center of the culture and discourse spaces that right-wing (really a lot of people these days, but especially right-wing sorts) people occupy, i don't think any but the most extremely radicalized ones are anywhere near as aggressive or intense in desensitizing people to the act of violence as the military apparatus. i say this as someone who *is in the position you're describing*-- and also understands that their brain fails at empathy, is trying to actively correct such, and recognizes by comparison to the people around them that it is an abnormality among the human population.
the vast majority of people do have *some* level of empathy, it's biologically hard-wired because it was evolutionarily advantageous for these big overdeveloped sacks of grey matter to incentivize cooperation with one another. however, i think in many cases it's underdeveloped, stifled, suppressed, disincentivized by the wider culture (especially when it comes to business and politics), or reserved for people within their in-group, who are "real human beings" to them in contrast to the great swath of faceless statistics that make up the rest of the human population. with that in mind, i still don't think most people are as capable of or willing to kill each other as they like to say or believe they are.
Abstract: "I am very badass." "No, no, I'm not! Aagh!"
They become sovereign citizens and attempt to find cheat codes for the legal system, which only ends up with them losing everything and irritating everyone involved.
Edit: long overdue typo
AR-15 doesn’t do shit against smallpox..
Same thing happens in South Africa, as if possessing guns made invading homes okay.
Or an Apache Helicopter
Their ideology is deliberately one sided. It's not inconsistent because it was never based on seeing them as equals.
I wonder if he's the type that would talk about the "War of Northern Aggression".
Probably. An idiot insisting the mass rape, slaughter and stealing of land of Native Americans was done "fair and square" undoubtedly has bitched loudly and often about the tearing down of mass produced Confederate statues, "liberals erasing [White] history", that the South was *wrongfully invaded* and that "the Civil War wasn't *JUST* about slavery, you guys.* of course, he or she has definitely posted long rants on Facebook against *participation trophies* and that Black folks "need to just get over slavery."
The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
It really twists my asshole that the generation who invented participation trophies is the one that complains the loudest about them.
Thank you!!! Drives me insane. So tired of hearing how the decisions grownups made for them are actually a moral failing of the kindergarteners jnvolved
I know this is a joke, but seriously this. When I read about what some other people around the world have to suffer through, I just wish there were better things in place to help. I read things happening like refugees try to illegally come to the u.s., I feel like there are people who really need a safe place. Like, they will be in violent gangs, or horribly abused when they are deported. And I talk to people who claim immigrants don't have a right to be here... Like, what gave you the right to be here? You are here because someone your related to immigrated here. If bombs were destroying your home, or your place of birth was overrun by rapists and gangs, you'd feel very different about the things you are entitled to
I’m sure he would be super happy to buy it back at a fair market price after a few hundred years of inflation. He would also love the process tribes for through to transfer land status after purchase which can take years and costs tens of thousands of $$.
Red would definitely not be able to put 2 and 2 together.
By all means I can have his car illegally towed and he can pay to get it back according to his own logic.
Just tell him you “conquered” his car, “fair and square.” And now he has to buy it back.
Don't you understand? They lived a FAIR genocide. Nuance my guy, nuance
Then that guy shouldn't appear on star trek 😕😂
I think OP meant Santa Claus if I’m not mistaken
I mean have you seen the mental gymnastics they do for all the murder in the bible?
It's okay as long as it's "fair and square," apparently.
Low key that reminds me of that poem about the Holocaust...
*guy in red hat
But ban tinsel on christmas trees in public, outdoor spaces for a littany of safety and environmental reasons and suddenly they're oppressed and defending themselves in an all-out war
W e conquer fair and sqaure,
Help berni sanders is danger
Fair and square always means superior killing technologies.
All is fair in love and war. Also oil.
Free the oil!
A pandemic to thin the hostile population never hurts
I've been watching Parks & Rec and every time someone mentions the horrible treatment of the Womapoke tribe it sounds so shockingly over the top but then you realize it's actually pretty accurate for what actually happened to real First Nations in real life.
White people are terrified of Indian curses
But they won and that's what matters to this guy
Best way to reply to the guy would be asking him if you beat him up does that mean you get their property, naturally they'll say no so then they know they're logic is flawed
Thats pretty much how conquering worked throughout history tbh
In NorCal there was a massacre against Natives. The Sacramento River Massacre, and one of the quotes from a participant was "I think I hate an Indian as much as anyone, but this...this was a slaughter. It was mostly women and children" It was so much worse than we will ever be able to prove.
They should have think it better before being born not white and settling in a whole different continent on great lands /s
New business model:
1. Sell land
2. Immediately conquer it "fair and square"
3. Repeat ad infinitum
Let's start with that guy's house
I'll grab a lawn chair and some popcorn!
Real life infinite money glitch!
By their logic they should STFU after losing the Civil War and the 2020 election
They didn't cheat, but you did. If they did, they were justified. If not, you're worse.
That's the logic these people use.
Anyone know where the guy lives? Let's conquer his land fair and square and then throw him out.
Make sure to charge exorbitant prices for his... I mean our land.
(After he gets to Oklahoma)
But is he fit to even handle his own finances? I think it'll take him 150 years before he can handle his own checkbook. Anyone else need a loan?
Oh wait what we gave him has some actual value. It's better we take it off his hands he wouldn't be able to properly make full valuation of this land anyways. Tell him it's worthless and I'll sell it to my friend for a nickle. I broker and approve all sales.
Let's take all his kids they need a proper English education. Oh when thier bad let's lock them in a closet without food or water in handcuffs. Oops I forgot we left them in there for weeks, 215 times.
In Canada they are still uncovering graves behind the residential schools.
Not to mention those they burned in the furnaces.
215 is just 1 school. They are all across the US and Canada. Not to mention the spanish system.
The catholic church won't give us the land back the school is on for some reason. Even though its no longer in any kind of use.
I'll bring the blankets infected with Pox.
I'll bring the attempted genocide of him and everyone he knows, which will fail, and then force him to live on these particular plots of land and refuse to give him any basic rights
And make their child speak some foreign language in a confined school like prisoner setting, and torture them if they speak even a single word from their language.
I'll bring the keys to his new tiny shack that he has to live in (actually scratch that he doesn't need a lock he can tough it out)
I’ll provide the cripplingly and openly corrupt leadership for his new shack
dont forget to abduct the children and teach them a new culture and god at gunpoint like we did in the 30s
More like this years 1867-1996.
I'll bring the former guy to spread VD.
Just bring a jar of covid air taken from a local hospital. It’s very likely the guy isn’t vaccinated.
The replies here would make a damn fine country song.
Maybe he can buy his stuff back from the pawn shop
Yeah. Billy clubs and a some tasers should do it.
By this logic, if someone were to beat his ass and take their wallet it would not be stealing but getting conquered fair and square.
Literally said this to a friend a couple of years ago, he came back with, "man stfu that's not the same".
You sure he's a friend?
Tell him he is a Stalinist. "One punch in the face is a tragedy; a million punches in the face a statistic."
I love that quote so much. Atrocities on a massive scale become incomprehensible, whilst murdering one person can make someone irredeemable. And if theres anyone who knows about mass atrocities, its big Joe S
The idea is fairly old and refers to how people process harm, not really an evil perspective on opportunity, also [it doesn’t seem there’s evidence for Stalin having said that](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/21/death-statistic/)
"They can ttry and I'll shoot them with my collection of 200 pistols, 100 long guns, and 45 assault rifles!"
This level of delusion would think that if he got robbed, it's because he didn't have enough firepower.
And probably more likely to get robbed for his guns. Or kill himself or a family member with them.
Imagine spending thousands on guns for “defense” just to die in a car accident and your family giving your stockpile to the government to be destroyed
I came to say this, thanks!
I can imagine all sorts of shitty arguments this person could take but "they were conquered fair and square" is probably the worst one
I took your wallet after beating the shit out of after poisoning your food. How much you want for it?
So we should go take their house from them at gunpoint and make this same point?
That’s not the same thing!!!
This complete douche, minimizing the utter atrocities that Natives experienced, is probably the type to call the police and demand prosecution if someone parks in his parking space.
Yep, always the victim.
As an American living in the Souther United States, I’ll say this:
Native Americans shouldn’t have to live on reservations and it wasn’t fair for them have their land taken and their people removed from those lands.
Cool so I can waltz onto this dudes property and just take it for myself then?
Fair and square.
Not sure how fair and square the colonists were playing
What are you talking about? Those smallpox blankets were super fair!
And most likely square!
Just to be real dicks I bet they were a narrow triangle shape
Fair and square, no takebacks, infinity times a thousand!
Curses! Foiled again!
You're not a murder victim you just couldn't defend yourself good enough
It's these same people who geniunely believe that if women didn't want to be raped, they'd just close their legs.
Out of touch, smoothbrains.
"Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."
Sad to say but most tribes weren’t conquered, at least in the US. They were offered money for their land (usually a pittance if what it was worth) and an annual stipend to live on a reservation (that usually got spent on alcohol). Tribes that rejected the offer were forcibly moved anyway. If they resisted they were put down.
The entire state of Iowa was bought from the various warring tribes that lived here, as a measure of peace (the Ioway were the worst hit, having been mostly wiped out by the Sioux). The Ioway, Sac and Fox tribes moved to Oklahoma and the Sioux were given reservations in the Dakotas (see custers last stand and wounded knee to see how that played out).
A group from the sac and fox tribes came back to their homeland - when confronted they literally cried that this was their home outside of Tama and they didn’t care about the money, they wanted to live here. The Iowa legislature voted to allow them to purchase their land (the Meskwaki settlement NOT reservation) using their govt subsidy - the only tribe in 100 years allowed to do so. They pretty much lived in squalor until the 1980s when the casino opened. They’re doing alright now, but their relatives back in OK not so much. I think they do send money back and remain members of the Sac and Fox tribes in good standing.
I was just wondering the other day if any Sac and Fox natives were left. Thanks for the interesting read.
Our tribe, in Northern California had 350 square kilometers. Then the gold rush hit and the land was just taken by miners and settlers. We were offered 70 acres on top of a mountain with no water. Then in the 50s talks we're going on to get at least some land back, then the feds made a lake and destroyed all past culture. We got about 500 acres now and a casino but 80% are in extreme poverty.
The Mission Indians got especially screwed by California. If you’re familiar with the play Ramona, that was based on actual events that led to a Tulsa type massacre in Temecula (southern CA)
In general most land grants and treaties signed by Spain and Mexico were declared null and void after CA became a state. Ask today’s liberal govt to fix the inequities and they just shrug and say “I thought we fixed all that”
The US govt is starting to make amends - giving prairie lands back to the plains Indians as a trust. But there’s still a long way to go.
Our people were really fucked by the Sonoma Mission. Taken as slaves and raped and murdered.
Democrat Party is centre-right wing. You guys don’t have a progressive party.
Not a Democrat, or a Republican.
>today’s liberal government
They’re not really liberal
And then there’s some of the Seminoles...
Our Sauk and Fox cousins in OK are doing just fine.
That's a really roundabout way of saying that they were conquered...
Did this guy just say they weren't conquered, just bought off, forcibly removed, or killed?
And also use the term "put down" like you would for a dog?
IT wAs stOlEn fAiR anD SqUaRe
not defending anyone, just pointing that *technically* every modern country is on unlawfully taken land.
Guess I can go roll up in a tank and live in their house if I can conquer it fair and square
Anybody who uses the phrase "conquered fair and square" unironically has officially lost the right to cry foul if and when they get mugged IMO.
In Yellowstone the native guy says something about their casinos. Something like:
"casinos are like a river, it flows one way. If they want to take our land, fine. but we'll buy it back with their money."
This is as bad as the one I saw today where the lady said "the governor should be taking care of American citizens who were BORN HERE, not immigrants" referring to Natives and when everyone went ...r/holdup she declared that THEY MIGRATED here. And then posted screen shots where Google side they migrated here like 15k years ago and didn't seem to put *ANY* of what was being said to her together.
I mean, maybe I'd like that guy's car. I'm sure if I go get it, it's mine fair and square.
I betcha this guy would be real upset if the government took his land at gunpoint, though
may I remind everyone that a mass grave of 200+ First Nations children were found on the grounds of a residential school in Canada about a week ago. They were as young as 3 years old. First Nations people have had their entire identity stolen from them and their children murdered because they weren't white enough. Their land was stolen, and people who downplay what happened as "fair and square" really piss me off.
Just so we are all clear on this.... these people are allowed to vote.
Not sure how "fair and square" it is when the invading force has explosive firepower.
And bio weapons and broken treaties and agreements
Just like if an alien species came by with death rays and shit, he would totally be fine since he was conquered fair and square
Someone should concur his house and car.
So he's saying I can go beat him up and take his house?
Ma? Git ma shovel. I'm gettin' us a free house!
So if I “conquer” his house by robbing it and pawning the jewellery, is that fair and square and it’s up to him to have to buy it all back?
I don’t think I’ve ever heard any rational person say ‘Conquered fair and square’ before in my life. Jesus. Let’s go out of a limb and say okay, sure. Out of all the conquering, this is one atrocious example.
"Conquered fair and square" huh?
So, my neighbors have nicer house than me. I can just go next door, slaughter their whole family and get a free house?
(/s, obviously. Also, my neighbors are pretty cool. I'd never hurt them.)
But immigrants are stealing their jobs?
By this logic if you can manage to steal anything from this person they're obligated to pay for it if they want it back.
I fucking guarantee, *GUARANTEE*, you he supported the Bundy fuckwits during their crusade a few years ago.
So this person
1) thought this awful thing
2) believed that it was a thought worth sharing publicly
Conservatives believe might makes right, so by definition literally everything is "fair and square" for no real reason. They might as well say "it happened, therefore it's good".
I've never heard "it was stolen from them fair and square" as an argument before
Conquered after a plague nearly wiped out their entire civilization. We didn’t meet the natives at their peak, we met them after an apocalypse.
I’m not sure how being conquered is “fair” in the acquisition of land. It’s basically theft.
I agree, but wouldn't this apply to practically every single piece of land in the world?
Is there a single country where the inhabitants are natives, with no invasions ever? At what point is the line drawn between wrong and acceptable, is it based on how long ago the last invasion was?
Did the US buy their land from England? That's what I thought.
“Yeah someone stole my phone :/“
“Why are you complaining? It was conquered fair and square.”
Elder races - Land belongs to all,keep it the way it is ,it provides for everybody.
Europeans-Your land belongs to me or you can either fight me or buy it for me.
Elder races -We’ll buy it from you.
Europeans- Good,it belongs to you now untill my great grandchildren decide to ignore my rules and grab it from you again.
WTF ! THESE PEOPLE CANT BE THIS STUPID MAN
So he would be fine with this purchased land being "conquered" again then? What kind of logic does this dude run on? Why does purchasing mean anything if he supports violent conquering anyway?
Conquered fair and square. There’s some logic for ya.
Can we go conquer his house fair and square
“Rightfully conquered”?! What the fuck?? Clearly this person values no lives besides the privileged. This behavior is revolting.
gonna conquer this guy’s kneecaps with a baseball bat
The fascist mind-set is very ugly.
So... according to this logic they shouldn’t have bought it back, they should have just conquered it. Right?
I hope that guy gets smallpox
The Nazis conquered fair and square. And we selfishly took it away from them-this dingus
So, we can conquer his lil patch of land if he owns one? This is as dumb as the time a guy told me that without colonization, I’d live in a tipi. Then, got angry when I said “So?”
What idiots like this don't realize is that they are saying that one day if and when America's legions fail any foreign power can come and defeat Americans in a few military excursions and then they too can tell americans, "no we conquered you. This is ours now. You can go back to europ or whatever country you came from. You weren't here first."
Yes I used some of immortal techniques ideas.
So why did the conservatives want to rescue Kuwait during the Gulf War? They were conquered fair and square.
God imagine walking into someone’s house, stabbing their children, stealing there TV, destroying the TV, and then selling it back to them.
Gotta love Americans and them thinking this is perfect capitalism
The irony is this guy is likely aggressively against immigration, yet this stealing native land is a-okay.
Save that comment. March to that dude's house. Kill his family and throw his ass on the street. Conquered fair and square bitch.
>They were conquered fair and square.
I'm pretty sure there's nothing "fair" about conquering whole groups of people.
Conquest, unequal treaties, and deception is how every country ultimately gained their territories and established their borders. It sucks and it is brutal but is it the way of the world.
Lol i bet they call changing white comic book characters into a different race in superhero movies “white genocode”
And then get mad when Sam Wilson gets the shield, but Punisher getting the War Machine armor is fine and dandy!
Soooo robbing someone constitutes “fair and square” in conservative circles now? I don’t think that’s been fully thought through…
Robbery is fine as long as it’s fair and square. But taxation is theft, and that’s wrong. Sorry if you’re confused, I don’t make the rules
As long as you remember the cardinal rule: when it’s “me” it’s ok.
The crap liberals spin, like that people shouldn't be conquered? Outright admitting that their position has nothing to do with what's right.
Controversial opinion as a Native: we should move on and stop living in the past. Make best with what we have and stop living in the perpetual state of being a victim. Laws placing us as different than the avarage citizen with different laws and regulations just further exacerbates the social problems North American indigenous societies have. Also, most of us dont want a pity party by so called "sensible people" every time they meet one of us, just treat us nornally
Another Native opinion:
This is a rather privileged stance.
I mean yeah, treat us normally for fuck’s sake, but the systemic problems that exist in our communities can’t be ignored. The poorest communities in the US and Canada are on and around tribal jurisdictions and are often extremely isolated.
Not everybody has the ability to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” or whatever. That doesn’t make you a perpetual victim. It just means the system needs to change.
Of course, there’s so much more to being Native than genocide, and it shouldn’t define us (and I find it annoying that non-Natives have to bring it up every single time the discussion revolves around Native people because we are so much more than some dopey tragic archetype). It just can’t be denied that it has made things a lot harder for a lot of people currently.
Why are you being downvoted? You are 100% accurate.
Both of those are incorrect. Let me explain
There wasn't really much in the way of law protecting the natives when their land was initially seized. However, they didn't deserve that, and they CERTAINLY didn't deserve how they were treated
What a golden phrase. Gonna get *conquered fair and square* tattooed.
Perfect tramp stamp material
Bet that dude would not feel the same way if he was the one being conquered fair and square.
I don't get people like that. I can understand stealing shit. I can understand being proud of ones ability to steal shit. After all, it can be taxing, risky, and difficult.
But I can't understand thinking that it can be "fair and square".
Does this mean I can break into his home shoot him kick him out and claim his property "fair and square"?
"They were robbed and murdered fair and square"
Tell me you're completely blinded by capitalism without telling me you're completely blinded by capitalism.
I love the fact that conquest can be fair and square. It's a great mindset. Is this Jesus' love that they so often talk about?
Fair and square? Bows and spears against rifles?
And smallpox! Don't forget smallpox!
Sweet, so i can steal this guy's car at gun point and i get a free car because i conquered it "fair and square" AND i get to demand he buys his car from me if he wants it back ?
Let me guess, he's think "that's not the same at all." because suddenly it puts him in the shoes of the person whose property is take away.
“I hereby declare your house fair and square conquered. You can now live in your barn. If you want it, you have to buy it back from me”
I'm getting my shit together to conquer red's land. Who's with me?
"They were conquered, fair and square" excuse me but how is being conquered fair?
So if I break into someone's house, beat the shit out of them and their family that house is mine now right?