rap
i don't think we often used the term "hip hop" that commonly to describe our music
to me "hip hop" was always more associated with boom bap/old skool style beats. but the guys from the ends, from the same culture as grime came from, they made "rap"
I've never heard anybody make a distinction between 'rap' and 'hip hop' as genres until your comment.
In my experience, rap as a noun is just a lazy shorthand for hip hop, and derived from rap as a verb - because it's the manner of vocal delivery common (but not exclusive) to hip hop.
Klashnekoff, Blak Twang, and even Kano on occasion... they make UK hip hop, imo, regardless of the fact they're from the ends.
I agree with you but I think there is a cultural and musical separation between the rap that 90s kids from the ends were making, and what we find very easy to call "hip hop" (Black Twang, Klashnekoff and such).
I agree it's wrong to distinguish between the two by using "hip-hop" and "rap" as separate labels, but for lack of better ones that's kinda how I've always done so.
Yeah I get the desire to distinguish between the old-school and the new-school - between the sample-based, golden-era boom-bap stuff and the DAW-produced, MIDI-heavy modern stuff.
To me, both sit under the hip hop umbrella, but hip hop is as broad a genre as rock, where doom metal sounds a million miles away from prog rock, which sounds a million miles away from punk rock. It's such a broad church. Thank fuck for subgenres.
Grime isn't a subgenre of hip hop. It evolved from garage. And "rap" is just a synonym for hip hop (or a way of describing the vocal style), it isn't a sub genre of hip hop, it's just another name for it.
Musically yes, lyrically and structurally grime took a lot of elements from us Rap, combined them together with dancehall, and jungle influences and became grime.
I don't think that's true. There's nothing "lyrically" in grime that can't be found in garage and dancehall but can be found in hip hop. Some artists were a bit more rap-influenced than others (Kano, Ghetts, Durrty Goodz) but those artists also made hip hop. Other grime MCs sound entirely untouched by US hip hop (Wiley, Jammer, D Double E, Discarda, Flirta D). It wasn't until trap came about (fully-developed trap i.e. Lex Luger production) that grime riddims started to overlap with hip hop, but that's because hip hop moved closer to 140bpm around 2010.
I'm not claiming us Rap as the sole influence at all but when it comes to lyrical structuring there is a lot that's evidently influenced by hip-hop. I was around during the jungle days and for me the rhyme schemes of the typical grime MC has more in common with hip-hop than the chat of garage/jungle a lot of which was nonsensical š
Even with regards tempo you do have artists in the US like the Fu Snickens, Bone Thugs, Twista, Tonedeff etc etc.
For me I see grime as a genuine mish mash of influences and a true organic UK (truly London) sound.
Edit: also to be clear I'm more talking about the evolution of the sound. I do agree that some of the early guys were very garage influenced but even proto grime ala So Solid was heavily rap influenced.
Ahh yeye garage haha I wondered what you meant.
Itās a weird one because garage is more dance music in a way, same with drum and bass rappers those two are in their own crazy category
Yeah. I wouldn't even call them rappers, I'd call them MCs. I just use "rap"/"rapper" to describe hip hop MCing. If the genre is garage, grime, dnB/jungle, dancehall, scouse house/donk etc. I just called it MCing.
It is though. Rap has two meanings - hip hop (as a genre of music), and the vocal style using in hip hop (as in rapping). When people say "rap music", they mean hip hop and vice versa. There is no other consistent meaning of "rap music". All rap music is hip hop and all hip hop is rap music (unless it is instrumental).
Well yeah colloquially ofc but you shouldn't act like that's the real meaning of the word when explaining it. Rap and Hip Hop by themselves are 2 fundamentally different things.
Saying all Rap music is Hip Hop is just wrong and disrespectful to the culture. I know that 99% of people will literally not care but to me it's annoying to hear that. A new age sound cloud rapper yelling in the mic with autotune ain't hip hop
It's like me saying Drill is the same as Grime because they're both MCs with similar backgrounds on ~140bpm beats
Many people would argue that it's not since Trap is very devoid from basically all classic Hip Hop "principles" that created the genre back in the day.
The pioneers of Trap (Memphis sound) also weren't called Hip Hop back then either in the 90s, they were just called rap or even something like horrorcore. Not Hip-Hop. People made a clear distinction.
Hip Hop used to be a culture not and not a music style. Rap is just a part of the Hip Hop culture.
It's died out nowadays but the "Real Hip Hop" debate was huge some years back. People consider [this](https://www.soulonewyork.com/blog-posts/what-are-the-5-elements-of-hip-hop-2) the pillars of Hip Hop. If you weren't into all of these, you were a Rapper not a Hip Hop MC.
I think the reason people have such Rap = Hip Hop image these days is from the music industry who has always lumped them together as Hip-Hop/Rap. Not trying to sound like a old ass guy, obviously terms can change through time and that's a good thing, just giving perspective. Hip-Hop as a full culture has never truly come to Europe.
this all the way. Hiphop is a musical culture that often utilises rapping, that doesn't mean rapping=hiphop or viceversa.
I would disagree that it never made it's way to the uk though. It just that it had a different vector than the us scene. Artists from back in the day like Jehst, Skinnyman (sort of), and Braintax are good examples of ukhh culture imo.
Yeah might be. I'm not actually from the UK but from another European country so I take your word for it since you seem to get my point! You're right that many elements of Hip Hop are/were very present here too, my country produced some amazing Hip Hop too ([big up this](https://youtu.be/Zmk6T1pI9i4)), my point was more that the true feel of what Hip Hop is as a cultural phenomenon has never really been fully grasped by society.
Hip-hop (in cultural context) is an American culture. UK doesn't have a hip-hop culture, or if it does its not what describes the "from the ends" black centric culture that grime and road rap / trap / drill artists come from. I think in the past I just called it "ends culture" though I haven't heard anyone else use the term.
In terms of music, yes we can say it all falls under the hip-hop umbrella, although arguably there is uk electronic, garage / drum and bass / rave umbrella that it is under as well.
Hard categorisation isn't very important, or rather, I'm not trying to argue, but just communicate my impression/understanding and experience of local culture. Which is a very London local perspective, growing up during the golden age of grime, UK funky, and the emergence of "road rap".
Uk rap, Iād probably call it real rap as a sub genre. Definitely different to uk hip hop like fliptrix, four owls, split prophets ETC. and also very different to grime if you listen to grime sets from d double e, kano, skepta so on, you will see the difference
Heās rapping over Drake - Iām Still Fly, which samples Big Tymers - Still Fly, both of them are Hip-Hop beats. So evidently, no, itās not Grime.
I made a comment about this same subject a while ago, about people claiming everythingās Grime now. I said if a āGrime MCā spits over Bagatelle No. 25, that doesnāt make Bagatelle No. 25 a Grime riddim all of a sudden. Thatās not how it works.
Blade Brown isnāt a Grime MC, nor is the beat Grime, therefore itās not Grime. Itās literally as simple as that lol
Deffo not grime, as you can define grime by tempo and flow (rap pattern)
I see this track as (U.K.) rap/ Hiphop (which every your preference). I mean he is lacing a drake beat (US rap beat - so this hands down isnāt grime - or at least not in my book. My man (blade brown) is premier league , heavy weight - mans doing and has done bits
It's not hip hop or grime but rap.
To me it's all about the focus and this video is focused on the rap and not the beat/music.
But if I had to pick between the two then if say its hip hop as it's lacking that grim attitude
honestly probably just road rap.
that "i'm in my own world: i'm autistic" bar is either based if the mc is neurodivergent or weirdly ableist if he isn't
e: for the record i'm neurodivergent (high-functioning autistic) so that line caught me off-guard lol
i don't really care about what some random road rap mc would do tbh. does he really give a fuck about what people think about him in real life? why did you put ableist in quotes?
whenever a video gets directly posted here (uploadde to v.redd.it) it gets upvoted VERY quickly
which leads it to land on r/popular, which leads to an influx of non-grime ppl here.
No problem, I like REAL music, like Queen, not some idiot who thinks that they can sing when they only speak garbage (at best) insulting people and cultures.
Ha ha!
Never said rap was fake, just that itās not real music, music you can listen to without being offended by the language these individuals use thinking itās ok to swear and insult people. Well, itās NOT!
again: there is no such thing as real music. you don't have to like grime music. don't come to grime forums chatting shit about the music that i and many others like
Just what Iād expect from a fan of this noise. Real music exists - classical, jazz, rock, pop to name just 4 genres. Rap/grime IS NOT MUSIC. Itās noise, and I prefer to listen to roadworks that this garbage.
Road rap
Uk rap
rap i don't think we often used the term "hip hop" that commonly to describe our music to me "hip hop" was always more associated with boom bap/old skool style beats. but the guys from the ends, from the same culture as grime came from, they made "rap"
I've never heard anybody make a distinction between 'rap' and 'hip hop' as genres until your comment. In my experience, rap as a noun is just a lazy shorthand for hip hop, and derived from rap as a verb - because it's the manner of vocal delivery common (but not exclusive) to hip hop. Klashnekoff, Blak Twang, and even Kano on occasion... they make UK hip hop, imo, regardless of the fact they're from the ends.
I agree with you but I think there is a cultural and musical separation between the rap that 90s kids from the ends were making, and what we find very easy to call "hip hop" (Black Twang, Klashnekoff and such). I agree it's wrong to distinguish between the two by using "hip-hop" and "rap" as separate labels, but for lack of better ones that's kinda how I've always done so.
Yeah I get the desire to distinguish between the old-school and the new-school - between the sample-based, golden-era boom-bap stuff and the DAW-produced, MIDI-heavy modern stuff. To me, both sit under the hip hop umbrella, but hip hop is as broad a genre as rock, where doom metal sounds a million miles away from prog rock, which sounds a million miles away from punk rock. It's such a broad church. Thank fuck for subgenres.
Rap, grime, drill and a lot more are all sub genres of hip hopā¦ hip hop stretches even further than that as it is a culture beyond just music
Grime isn't a subgenre of hip hop. It evolved from garage. And "rap" is just a synonym for hip hop (or a way of describing the vocal style), it isn't a sub genre of hip hop, it's just another name for it.
Musically yes, lyrically and structurally grime took a lot of elements from us Rap, combined them together with dancehall, and jungle influences and became grime.
I don't think that's true. There's nothing "lyrically" in grime that can't be found in garage and dancehall but can be found in hip hop. Some artists were a bit more rap-influenced than others (Kano, Ghetts, Durrty Goodz) but those artists also made hip hop. Other grime MCs sound entirely untouched by US hip hop (Wiley, Jammer, D Double E, Discarda, Flirta D). It wasn't until trap came about (fully-developed trap i.e. Lex Luger production) that grime riddims started to overlap with hip hop, but that's because hip hop moved closer to 140bpm around 2010.
I'm not claiming us Rap as the sole influence at all but when it comes to lyrical structuring there is a lot that's evidently influenced by hip-hop. I was around during the jungle days and for me the rhyme schemes of the typical grime MC has more in common with hip-hop than the chat of garage/jungle a lot of which was nonsensical š Even with regards tempo you do have artists in the US like the Fu Snickens, Bone Thugs, Twista, Tonedeff etc etc. For me I see grime as a genuine mish mash of influences and a true organic UK (truly London) sound. Edit: also to be clear I'm more talking about the evolution of the sound. I do agree that some of the early guys were very garage influenced but even proto grime ala So Solid was heavily rap influenced.
Fair enough, thre's not a lot to disagree with there.
Head get mangled then dangled, to the side just like I wear my Kangol
Grime evolved from grime? And like I said hip hop is a culture that stems beyond just music Google hip hop sub genres
I meant to say grime evolved from garage. I know that there are sub genres to hip hop (drill, as you said), but grime isn't one of them.
Ahh yeye garage haha I wondered what you meant. Itās a weird one because garage is more dance music in a way, same with drum and bass rappers those two are in their own crazy category
Yeah. I wouldn't even call them rappers, I'd call them MCs. I just use "rap"/"rapper" to describe hip hop MCing. If the genre is garage, grime, dnB/jungle, dancehall, scouse house/donk etc. I just called it MCing.
Lmao Rap is not a synonym for Hip Hop
It is though. Rap has two meanings - hip hop (as a genre of music), and the vocal style using in hip hop (as in rapping). When people say "rap music", they mean hip hop and vice versa. There is no other consistent meaning of "rap music". All rap music is hip hop and all hip hop is rap music (unless it is instrumental).
Lmao tf
people defo use 'rap' as a synonym for hip hop colloquially
Well yeah colloquially ofc but you shouldn't act like that's the real meaning of the word when explaining it. Rap and Hip Hop by themselves are 2 fundamentally different things. Saying all Rap music is Hip Hop is just wrong and disrespectful to the culture. I know that 99% of people will literally not care but to me it's annoying to hear that. A new age sound cloud rapper yelling in the mic with autotune ain't hip hop It's like me saying Drill is the same as Grime because they're both MCs with similar backgrounds on ~140bpm beats
Rap is just a stand-in for hip hop. Would you argue that trap isn't a part of the hip hop genre and culture?
Many people would argue that it's not since Trap is very devoid from basically all classic Hip Hop "principles" that created the genre back in the day. The pioneers of Trap (Memphis sound) also weren't called Hip Hop back then either in the 90s, they were just called rap or even something like horrorcore. Not Hip-Hop. People made a clear distinction. Hip Hop used to be a culture not and not a music style. Rap is just a part of the Hip Hop culture. It's died out nowadays but the "Real Hip Hop" debate was huge some years back. People consider [this](https://www.soulonewyork.com/blog-posts/what-are-the-5-elements-of-hip-hop-2) the pillars of Hip Hop. If you weren't into all of these, you were a Rapper not a Hip Hop MC. I think the reason people have such Rap = Hip Hop image these days is from the music industry who has always lumped them together as Hip-Hop/Rap. Not trying to sound like a old ass guy, obviously terms can change through time and that's a good thing, just giving perspective. Hip-Hop as a full culture has never truly come to Europe.
this all the way. Hiphop is a musical culture that often utilises rapping, that doesn't mean rapping=hiphop or viceversa. I would disagree that it never made it's way to the uk though. It just that it had a different vector than the us scene. Artists from back in the day like Jehst, Skinnyman (sort of), and Braintax are good examples of ukhh culture imo.
Yeah might be. I'm not actually from the UK but from another European country so I take your word for it since you seem to get my point! You're right that many elements of Hip Hop are/were very present here too, my country produced some amazing Hip Hop too ([big up this](https://youtu.be/Zmk6T1pI9i4)), my point was more that the true feel of what Hip Hop is as a cultural phenomenon has never really been fully grasped by society.
Hip-hop (in cultural context) is an American culture. UK doesn't have a hip-hop culture, or if it does its not what describes the "from the ends" black centric culture that grime and road rap / trap / drill artists come from. I think in the past I just called it "ends culture" though I haven't heard anyone else use the term. In terms of music, yes we can say it all falls under the hip-hop umbrella, although arguably there is uk electronic, garage / drum and bass / rave umbrella that it is under as well. Hard categorisation isn't very important, or rather, I'm not trying to argue, but just communicate my impression/understanding and experience of local culture. Which is a very London local perspective, growing up during the golden age of grime, UK funky, and the emergence of "road rap".
There's loads of UK hiphop, and a massive boom bap scene
Uk has absolutely had a hip hop culture. London Posse, Klashnekoff, Skinnyman were all traditional hip hop man
To me Hip Hop is like grandmaster flash run DMC. I'd agree with your distinction 100%.
Uk rap
Uk rap, Iād probably call it real rap as a sub genre. Definitely different to uk hip hop like fliptrix, four owls, split prophets ETC. and also very different to grime if you listen to grime sets from d double e, kano, skepta so on, you will see the difference
Oh my wooord
Heās rapping over Drake - Iām Still Fly, which samples Big Tymers - Still Fly, both of them are Hip-Hop beats. So evidently, no, itās not Grime. I made a comment about this same subject a while ago, about people claiming everythingās Grime now. I said if a āGrime MCā spits over Bagatelle No. 25, that doesnāt make Bagatelle No. 25 a Grime riddim all of a sudden. Thatās not how it works. Blade Brown isnāt a Grime MC, nor is the beat Grime, therefore itās not Grime. Itās literally as simple as that lol
I think it's best to call it rap because it is very distinguishable from what's known as UK Hip Hop. High Focus Records, Blah Records, etc
Blah is dope
Yeh they're rude. Stinkin Slumrock's new album is top
Broo I slept on him for so long heās class
I saw his head movements with the sound off. In the first 3 seconds and knew it was rap
Deffo not grime, as you can define grime by tempo and flow (rap pattern) I see this track as (U.K.) rap/ Hiphop (which every your preference). I mean he is lacing a drake beat (US rap beat - so this hands down isnāt grime - or at least not in my book. My man (blade brown) is premier league , heavy weight - mans doing and has done bits
Blade never been grime š
They called Asco a grime artist too when he got nicked. Itās an old peoples term for anyone rapping.
Rap
Iād just call it U.K. rap/road rap
UK Rap
Hip hop
Road rap
Blade is pure UK rap
Blade brown is rap
Definitely hip hop
Road rap
Yeah thatās Uk rap
Rap, Rhythm And Poetry And donāt call Blade Brown grime lol
Hard
This is hip hop. Sounds like road rap. Grime is 140bpm and the beats have a rhythm rooted in garage.
Road rap
Giggs flow
Far from grime, UK rap
Who is this and how do I download this song
Dunno, but I like it.
Who is he?
Nobody calls this grime
Blade aināt Grime itās Uk RapšÆ name is Blade Brown top 5 realist and hardest uk Rappers šÆ
Defo uk rap, not grime. Grime is mainly define by being 140bpm
f'real? I thought that shit was like 70
most grime is produced around 137-142 (although it's not necessarily a rule)
š
What kinda question is dis? Do u know grime fam lol?
I'd call it dreadful
I saw his head movements with the sound off. In the first 3 seconds and knew it was rap
It's not hip hop or grime but rap. To me it's all about the focus and this video is focused on the rap and not the beat/music. But if I had to pick between the two then if say its hip hop as it's lacking that grim attitude
Itās not grime because itās not 140bpm (I assume)
I think he might be autistic
I miss Donny Osmond!
Grime is 180 Bpm Blade never been a grime artist
140* :) I have seen grime as high as 170ish (not common) but never 180
Blade brownšÆ
Craaaaaappp
Is this the uk Dr Dre?
Legendary
Shit is what I would call it
honestly probably just road rap. that "i'm in my own world: i'm autistic" bar is either based if the mc is neurodivergent or weirdly ableist if he isn't e: for the record i'm neurodivergent (high-functioning autistic) so that line caught me off-guard lol
I reckon blade brown would shank you if you said he's "ableist" in real life
i don't really care about what some random road rap mc would do tbh. does he really give a fuck about what people think about him in real life? why did you put ableist in quotes?
Grime
No
cRap
lmao is there a mass brigade happening or something
They all gotta be the same person thereās no way š
whenever a video gets directly posted here (uploadde to v.redd.it) it gets upvoted VERY quickly which leads it to land on r/popular, which leads to an influx of non-grime ppl here.
I'd call it shite
Terrible shout, Blade is a UK rap legend
The best way to describe rap is to put a C at the start of it !
Great banter
aren't you into sissification n female supremacy https://www.reddit.com/r/femalesupremacy2/comments/t82xnq/new_world_order/
Neither - itās C R A P!
whats your problem? lol
Theyāve got taste in music
Stick to bumming Mumford n Sons and Sam Smith then donāt come here with your shit opinions
Hate them both. I just like real music not garbage spouted by people who have ZERO talent.
No problem, I like REAL music, like Queen, not some idiot who thinks that they can sing when they only speak garbage (at best) insulting people and cultures.
Why are you in a grime subreddit if you donāt like rap...
Showed up in my news feed - wanted to state my opinion.
there is no such thing as real or fake music
Ha ha! Never said rap was fake, just that itās not real music, music you can listen to without being offended by the language these individuals use thinking itās ok to swear and insult people. Well, itās NOT!
again: there is no such thing as real music. you don't have to like grime music. don't come to grime forums chatting shit about the music that i and many others like
Just what Iād expect from a fan of this noise. Real music exists - classical, jazz, rock, pop to name just 4 genres. Rap/grime IS NOT MUSIC. Itās noise, and I prefer to listen to roadworks that this garbage.
okay then why try to convert mfs to your side instead of letting people enjoy what they enjoy
Iād call it crap.
Yeah blade brown aināt for someone that calls themselves a cupcake lol
Shit hop
Moronic, ignorant, Shit
I would call it shit.
Terrible
Shit
Crap
How about complete and utter shite?
I call it shit