T O P

So was Citadel ever shorting GME? If so, I'd like to see proof.

So was Citadel ever shorting GME? If so, I'd like to see proof.

Fun_Assistance_9389

Literally no. Well yes but mainly no. Citadels 13F showed 2.5 million puts on Gamestop. But wait! It also had 2 million calls. So in the long run, even during the initial runup, they made money. Robinhood turned off the buy button due to insufficient liquidity, Citadel had to bail them out in order for Robinhood to literally still exist. Because Citadel had 2.5m puts, (and ignoring the calls), Apes think Robinhood turned off the buy button because they felt like it and because Citadel told them to in order to prevent losses. Yes this is fucking stupid.


Halanna

Citadel also bailed out Melvin Capital who were so short on GME they needed 2.75 billion to stay afloat. It's another reason chimps hate good boy KG.


MrMediaShill

That didn’t even keep him afloat it seems as Melvin Capital has been uncontactable since January


Halanna

Why would anyone not a client of Melvin Capital need to contact them? Did something else happen?


MrMediaShill

It doesn’t matter why, it matters that you can’t call them using the information Melvin Capital makes public, presumably because they were completely liquidated and forced to close the doors, but possibly something else. However, reasons non-clients might call, to deliver a pizza, wrong numbers, curiosity, whimsy, etcetera, etcetera. If I was a Client and attempted to contact them and found the number disconnected you bet there would be some concern


Halanna

Melvin Cap only has 8 clients with 7-8billion AUM. There is no need for the public to contact them. Citadel received non-controlling revenue shares in Melvin for three years in return for the bailout. Unlikely they've been liquidated. Melvin isn't isn't for random citizens. You couldn't be a client. Closing themselves off from public contact appears to have been necessary.


MrMediaShill

Again my “Need” is irrelevant, the company has publicly listed their contact information. That information is for utilities that are NO LONGER IN SERVICE. So regardless of anyones need to contact them they should be perfectly capable of doing so, well they were before they turned off their utilities anyway. That can only be a bad signal for them


Halanna

Their lastest 13F appears to have 7 clients with 24 billion AUM. I wouldn't worry about Melvin. They're just fine.


MrMediaShill

You do you but personally, if I was one of their clients and they stopped accepting calls I would immediately remove my assets from their care


ehennis

Do you think that those 7 people with BILLIONS of dollars invested don't have a cell phone number?


georgejetsonn

What's funny is that Citadel didn't even bail out RH, they bailed out Melvin because Plotkin and Griffin had known each other for a long ass time. Also, they already [started redeeming](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/griffins-citadel-plans-redeem-500-141105733.html) part of that cash infusion. RH was bailed out by their existing [venture capital investors](https://blog.robinhood.com/news/2021/2/1/robinhood-raises-34-billion-to-fuel-record-customer-growth) who had been with them for some years. Citadel is not one of them. Citadel Advisors, the hedge fund, has positions in GME on both sides because it is volatile, therefore easy to make money on. At the end of 2020 GME was 0.02% of their portfolio and moved up to a whopping 0.25% at the end of Q1 2021. Yeah, that'll bankrupt them for sure. Some leaps of logic and mountains of inaccurate information somehow made Kenny G and Citadel the straw man in this saga because no conspiracy theory is complete without a vaguely defined evil character.


spyVSspy420-69

Don’t you get it buddy….? They’re hiding their true short position using synthetic short ladder dark pool naked house of cards.


PM_ME_FAV_RECIPES

rehypothecated* synthetic short ladder dark pool naked house of cards


IAMA_Printer_AMA

You forgot about the Total Return Swaps lol


WSBdickhead

CitSec, the trading/MM side, had those positions. They made an absolute *killing* on selling those options (because they aren't, you know, negative deltas when they're selling those)


georgejetsonn

SEC filings show that Citadel Advisors, the hedge fund, held those. They trade everything. Their [information table](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001423053/000095012321002766/0000950123-21-002766-index.htm) filing is massive. CitSec is a separate entity altogether with different [filing requirements.](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=1146184)


WSBdickhead

While they are separate entities, they’re included in the Cit Advisors filing you linked (you actually linked one of the few CitSecs but not the correct one)


georgejetsonn

~~Citadel Securities is a not a subsidiary of Citadel Advisors. They are different entities, they always have been. One is playing the buy side, the other the liquidity providing, again, with different reporting requirements. They are both subsidiaries of Citadel LLC, which is the holding company.~~ ~~Due to its multi-layered structure, this is the kind of confusion that can easily be made, understandably.~~ ~~Sources:~~ ~~* [1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_LLC) * [2](https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/kenneth-c-griffin/) * [3](https://alphacution.com/download-the-executive-summary-deconstructing-citadel-securities-2/)~~ ~~If you have sources that prove otherwise, I'm happy to accept them.~~ EDIT: It seems I've missed an important tidbit: Citadel the market maker is reporting their holdings together with the hedge fund in hedge fund's 13F


WSBdickhead

[Your Edgar link for reference](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001423053/000095012321002766/0000950123-21-002766-index.htm)   [SEC 13F instructions, regarding Column 7](https://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment/13ffaq.htm#:~:text=Column%207%20is%20the%20place,linked%20to%20the%20other%20manager.)   [13F Cover page - see Other Included Managers at the bottom, and note the number 1](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1423053/000095012321002766/xslForm13F_X01/primary_doc.xml)   [The holdings page in html - note the number 1 in column 7 correlates with the "1" for Citadel Securities on the cover page](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1423053/000095012321002766/xslForm13F_X01/0000950123-21-002766-3228.xml)   So these holdings have plenty of CitSec positions


georgejetsonn

This is interesting, thanks for that. How can we tell how much is CitSec and how much Advisors? If I'd be an investor in their hedge fund I'd like to know how they segregate their securities. If we skim through hedge fund's [13G filings](https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=1423053), we can see that the market maker always holds just a fraction of HF's share. It seems to me that other than the 13G filings there's no way to know which side holds what.


WSBdickhead

For example look at 10X genomics. There is a row for common with a “1” in column 7, and a row without it


georgejetsonn

Makes sense now, thanks! 👍


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abintra515

Any broker will turn off the buy button when you see volatility at that level. I don’t think there’s a broker that wouldn’t do that in order to prevent liquidity problems


Fun_Assistance_9389

These people think the Gov will pay a million of them 30 million a share. They can’t comprehend that brokers and capital lenders don’t have an infinite money glitch.


terror-twilight

They also think that government will pay out to people that aren’t citizens of that country, which is buck wild.


TheJewIsHere-2021

They think the government will pay at all! Free market issue! That’s what bankruptcy court is for. Maybe they with each get a share of there favorite - Citadel!


chitownstylez

YOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I never thought about this!!!! The EuroApes think the US Treasury is gonna print them money? And deposit it in European bank accounts? Or mail them checks? YOOOOOOOO!!!! This literally just dawned on me!!!!


terror-twilight

I have no idea what they think. In my experience, when asked they don’t have an answer.


michaelcorlene

Now there is some new fuckery with ComputerShares, those guys at ComputerShares must laughing their ass off.


terror-twilight

They’ll have people trying to take pictures through their windows and talking about hanging their employees a month from now, so perhaps not


KO9

Lol it's not that difficult to understand but I'll get some crayons out and try to explain it to you. In January there were over 200m shares short on gme. You can see the interview with IBKR CEO who admits these numbers and that it was impossible for shorts to cover. These are legal contracts which are guaranteed by the brokers and then the dtcc. Again these are facts that the IBKR CEO has admitted on live TV on numerous occasions. Apes who drs shares will get paid by computershare when they sell into the market and tbh God knows about the brokers especially if they go insolvent


chitownstylez

Ok, and I’m not coming at you … I’m just asking … Computershare popped up 2 weeks ago, but they’ve (the Apes) have been doing this for 8 months … So before 2 weeks ago. How & why the fuck did people in foreign countries think they were gonna get paid by the United States government/treasury?


KO9

Assuming you sell before the broker is insolvent or goes offline, your cash is protected by your government's financial services up to a certain point. If the sell went through and the brokers didn't pay, the financial services would cover up to a small point


abintra515

Hence these pesky little buggers called financial regulations.


Fun_Assistance_9389

And its funny thinking about it too, even if Robinhood or any of the other trading platforms that shut off the buy button DIDN’T have liquidity problems, the stock exchange would have shut the buy button off as we saw multiple times happen to GME since January. And at that point it’d just be another Boogeyman and it’d be the Governments fault rather than Kenny.


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Gfuel_Sam

>Citadels 13F showed 2.5 million puts on Gamestop. But wait! It also had 2 million calls. So in the long run, even during the initial runup, they made money. It never occured to me that Citadel shorting GME was a lie invented by apes to have a big bad archenemy, I assumed they were short and closed their position during the MOASS. My bad for believeing anything I read on SuperShit. Furthermore, if Citadel had this position open during the MOASS then it was in their direct interest to pump the price even higher, if those puts were opened pre-January then they were worthless during the MOASS but the calls must've been printing, trying to tank the price to get those puts ITM instead of letting it rip and cash in on the calls would be retarded. # APES R FUKD


georgejetsonn

Now you're thinking like a hedge fund manager. You bet on the volatility, not on the direction. The more drama, the more profitable.


phoenixmusicman

Melvin Capital was the Hedge Fund primarily short on GME (and likely covered their position at a huge loss). Citadel just bailed them out.


Throwawayhelper420

Yeah, it’s not even that “logical” anymore. They believe citadel was and still is short billions of GME shares because of DUH And nothing else. The thing that originally brought them into the picture was Melvin was very short GME and were bailed out by citadel via a plain old fashioned loan. A loan which was needed due to the expense of covering. Then they discovered citadel handles some of Robinhoods transactions via PFOF, and since Robinhood turned off the buy button(along with dozens of other brokers worldwide, especially discount ones), that must mean that Robinhood did it solely to please citadel and that citadel must be short GME, or why else would it please them? But basically nobody even remembers that anymore, the huge majority of apes who were in back them who understood that line of thought have left, and it was always clearly incorrect and based on wild conspiratorial assumptions anyway.


xXAllWereTakenXx

Ok thanks


WSBdickhead

Well delta wise, they probably were. The apes hoping they go BK don't understand that CitSec has risk limits. Once they deviate too far, their positions are automatically delta adjusted. Also, I will lol if their orders they sent to CS get executed in the opening auction at some absurdly high price, only to see the ground fall out immediately after opening


jindujunftw

Why would you have puts and calls at the same time for the same stock? How does it make sense?


WSBdickhead

Well that’s playing volatility for one. Second, their filing includes CitSec which is their MM side of the business


sparklebrothers

This is standard practice really. Its the hedging part of a hedge fund.


FRENCHY2077

You realize there are only 75M total outstanding shares right? With 35M being the float. 2m calls and 2.5m puts is 450M shares total, or an imbalance of -50M shares.


Past_Ad5078

Nope, I don't remember they ever did. It was Melvin capital, who was *bailed out* by Citadel.


DillonSyp

This is what happened


xXAllWereTakenXx

Kenny's picture attached just to brighten your day with his beautiful smile


CavalryWhiskers

The king 🥰


Ugandan_Karen

The creator of over half a million tinfoil hats


sereneturbulence

pic of the most confused man ever


Depressedredditor999

"Why do ~~birds~~drones suddenly appear?"


jerzeyguy101

You asking for proof when it comes to GME and AMC is laughable. Apes can’t spell proof


Shaun32887

They spell it F-U-D


gotduckling

Say what you want about Ken Griffin, the man is winning at life. Unless of course you believe that ape narrative that he's a fugitive on his private plane.


Inevitable_Ad6868

A fugitive flying to cool places.


Depressedredditor999

My lord what a good looking man. I bet he's hung like a horse too.


CluelessStick

I could explain it to you in length, but your probably too smart and still have some critical thinking, so it's not worth it. Come back when you need copious amounts of copium, it's the first step leading to suspension of disbelief with is primordial to understand all the fuckery and how a single man is singlehandedly responsible for preventing the shares to be worth $50M each.


snultzanator

You still riding BB to the moon buddy?


CluelessStick

Dude, everyday I hope BB crashes a little bit more just so I can close my damn LEAPS covered calls. Once that's done, I'm sticking with monthlies. Nowadays, I'm mostly on BITF, buying shares at a low price (under $5.75) and selling covered calls when BTC rallies. Premiums are pretty good if you like volatility. I'm also shilling MAGT for long term hold (OG from good old blackberry are on the board).


DixonSeider69

That’s what I’ve always wondered


WVEers89

You guys call GME a cult but y’all act the same way? I’m not in GME and think it’s been a dead play for months but let’s not act like there wasn’t a short squeeze. GameStop and AMC were <$4 stocks and look at them now.


xXAllWereTakenXx

I'm specifically talking about Citadel. Us OGs remember that Melvin Capital was the original villain who nobody cares about anymore


ItsFuckingScience

Whatever happened to citron research lol I enjoyed them getting made fun of in January


xXAllWereTakenXx

That name sounds familiar but I can't remember anything about them. What did they do?


sereneturbulence

On Jan 19 before the big spike, they [tweeted this out](https://twitter.com/citronresearch/status/1351544479547760642?s=21) and I guess made a video the following day (haven’t seen it). They were made to look like clowns lmao.


Mutterbomser_

But you guys think that the current narrative is.. different? How come? Why are Citron the silly ones (after being proven wrong) and meltdown 100% right?! It just goes to show that no one actually knows what's going to happen..


sereneturbulence

What’s different? Hi 🦍 **Borrow fee** It’s now 0.5%, in Jan 26th this was upwards of 80%. So if you guys own the float and it’s so much more shorted than before, we should see a crazy borrow fee. It costs nothing for people to short GameStop right now. **Institutional holdings** Why isn’t any hedge fund (not ETF or mutual fund) buying at these prices? Do they hate money? The institutional holdings in GameStop from January has dropped like crazy.


Mutterbomser_

I hear what you are saying but this is the same firm believe that Citron had the day before January squeeze so... Not convinced, not at all


sereneturbulence

Not at all. Institutional holdings were high, fintel short interest was high, borrow fee was spiking day by day. Literally everyone else knew short hedge funds were screwed. It was completely different than it was now. Okay. If you would rather believe in wild conspiracies for you to cope then you do you. But tell me, when do you think it will squeeze now? What’s the trigger? Is it this Computershare thing? When will that launch the MOASS?


sereneturbulence

The guy made a video after the spike.. took it well I guess. They are still active on [Twitter.](https://twitter.com/citronresearch?s=21) But yeah it was hilarious and really ruined their credibility in my eyes


Jumblyfun

Shitron and that fat little gremlin andrew left divorced and bankrupt


georgejetsonn

I believe Citron was the original villain? Andrew Left posted his GME shorting research [on Twitter](https://twitter.com/CitronResearch/status/1351544479547760642) about a week before MOASS and that pretty much ignited the WSB squad.


BARoach

There was a short squeeze in January. Yes. A lot of us made a good chunk of cash from it. And the hedge fund that got super fucked by it was Melvin Capital, not Citadel. Ergo the question from the OP.


WVEers89

The same Citadel that loaned Melvin all the money to cover their shorts?


elorei74

I thought the theory was that those shorts did not cover? Which is it?


WVEers89

Lol wut? Are you trying to question me on a view I don’t even have?


plumpypenguin

wut was the point you were trying to make with your original comment? we all believe that there was a short squeeze in January, no one's denying that. we just come here to make fun of apes that think their stock is going to cause a financial collapse and reach millions per share.


WVEers89

I had misunderstood the post clearly. I thought it was denying a short squeeze occurred and I briefly read through and saw someone say brokers always turn off the buy button on volatile stocks due to liquidity issues. That part made me question the views going on as that is definitely not normal. There were plenty of brokers that were still up and there’s been several squeezes since then and that issue has not occurred. There was some fishy shit with citadel, order flow, and borrow requirements that does seem to implicate them especially when you account for the loan they have to Melvin capital. I just think it’s a trash opinion that they weren’t involved but I guess that’s the point of the post? Edit: But I am specifically referring to the guy who tried to imply that I believe they doubled down on their shorts, that’s dumb.


Shiari_The_Wanderer

No, none of us deny a squeeze occurred... we deny that another one is likely to happen...


WVEers89

And I completely agree. I misunderstood as I’ve said multiple times. Yet I’m somehow believing they doubled down and I’m getting PMs telling I’m retarded . Totally normal not cult like behavior.


qdolobp

Actually your first time saying you misunderstood was 30 mins ago. You’ve said it twice, including this comment.


terror-twilight

OP asked precisely one thing: if Citadel had a short position. Not if “they were involved.” Not if they put pressure on Robinhood. Not if they talked about it on Twitter.


WVEers89

Lol you guys are just as bad as the GME people. Shilling for hedge funds for some reason and telling people to take dissenting opinions elsewhere. Did they take a short position? Probably not, but they did cover someone else’s.


PuppyBreth

This is a sub to laugh at the train wreck which is the super stupid sub. You seem really butt hurt


terror-twilight

I’m not exactly wearing Citadel t-shirts over here, just pointing out that everything you’re saying in this thread has nothing to do with what the thread is about. Apes talk _constantly_ about how Citadel has a massive short position and make meme after meme about it—OP is poking fun at that, because it’s just yet another fiction they obsess over.


elorei74

I am not certain that you understand even the basics of these topics.


plumpypenguin

i think the main ape thesis is that Citadel Securities is naked shorting millions or billions of shares of GME, which is kinda hard to prove considering all they did was bail out Melvin. if you look on fintel.io, you'll see that Citadel Advisors (the hedge fund) owned more than 200,000 shares at an average price of $14.52 in February so it's not like they're only playing the short side of GME.   as for brokers shutting down buys, i wouldn't be surprised if it was to limit short sellers' losses but a bunch of brokers like E-Trade, TD Ameritrade, Schwab, RH, and Webull restricted buying due to liquidity issues and i think Fidelity and Vanguard were the only ones that didn't.   i think the reason we haven't seen that issue occur again because GME was the once in a lifetime event, you had regular people and media reporting about it every day and there were like a million active users on WSB every day too. i tried to sign up on Fidelity when RH restricted buying and it took forever cause people were flooding the site.


WVEers89

I completely agree with all of this. I misunderstood the original post and was confused.


plumpypenguin

yeah man, no worries. tbh there are definitely people here that get a little too worked up about GME. 🙄 but i don't blame them lol.   the flood of newbie investors that think everything revolves around GME and that the reverse repo is going to pay for GME shorts or Evergrande collapsing will lead to MOASS and everyone will be able to retire off their one share, all the bad guys will go to jail, everyone who doubted will be poor, and there will be world peace is really obnoxious and tiring.   i just think we come here to get away from all the stupid conspiracy theories about hedgies destroying the world and laugh at the dumb things apes are doing.


Throwawayhelper420

Discount brokers had to turn off the buy because they didn’t have enough money to put up the collateral required with the DTCC. The buying broker has to put up collateral with the DTCC for 2 days. There were lots who shit down, and lots who didn’t. The discount brokers were most effected because they had the least amount of money, and boomer brokers were less effected because they had more money and had less people buying GME as a percentage of all stocks bought. It hasn’t happened at that scale since because they took out loans and raised capital to be able to handle these situations, and the squeezes that have happened since have all been much smaller, percentage wise, numerically, and in terms of sudden volume increases. But still, none of that has anything to do with whether citadel owned GME shorts, which they did not.


WVEers89

Does no one remember Ken Griffin on Twitter when all this was going on? ‘Leave trading to the big boys?’ Or him and portnoy going back and forth? I sold my positions back in January but let’s not act like Ken Griffin wasn’t in the middle of all this shit back then.


sereneturbulence

that was steve cohen you retard


WVEers89

Lol ur right, my bad


sereneturbulence

all good lmao


Throwawayhelper420

So confident for someone so wrong.


WVEers89

Excellent add on. Make sure you reply to my post where I admit I was wrong too.


Throwawayhelper420

The point wasn't that you were wrong, it was that you were so very confident despite being wrong.


WVEers89

Bro you’re a loser. Come back to an old ass conversation for what? Who cares? Move on with your life and stop taking Reddit so seriously. Fuckin weirdo wakes up angry to go tell people off on Reddit.


Throwawayhelper420

lol, apes man.


Throwawayhelper420

Nobody here has ever denied a short squeeze happened. Only superstonk thinks that. They think the short squeeze has yet to come and will go to $50,000,000 a share. They are the target of our ridicule. Are you seriously thinking we didn’t know the stock went from $8 last year to $483? The short squeeze is what started all of the ape nonsense and the total destruction of all stock subs. But anyway, citadel was not short GME and still isn’t. They actually had millions of calls and made a shit ton of money when GME went up, and would have made more had it gone higher.


WVEers89

Thanks for explaining the same thing 10 others have. I learned even more this time.


Throwawayhelper420

My comment is the only one posted that goes into most of the information included in my comment. You think I’m sitting here pressing refresh every 5 seconds to see if anyone has posted something related as I type?


Bvdh1979

Who had the initial 120% short positions then? Out of curiosity, who is the real villain?


Throwawayhelper420

It was 140%, and it was split among various hedge funds. Melvin was the "original villain". They covered and lost a ton of money. Citadel isn't and never was Melvin.


Bvdh1979

Ok just checking, glad you gots all the facts, I’ll mull over my hodl strategy, thanks.


Bvdh1979

Wait, no, I’m not done. So Melvin was “the main villain” you say it was shorted 140%? Ok so the lost is let’s keep it easy 50mil, as the main bad guy Melvin lost $8billion according to Reuters. Let’s do some quick math, 45%, does 45% seem enough for the main bad guy to own? Of a float of 50mil? Ok so 50mil x .45 = 22.5mil, you with me here? So take 22.5mil x what was GME trading at? Let’s say $350 when they “covered” 22.5mil x 350 = 7.87billion. Close enough. Ok so there’s the 8billion lost. So your telling me the main villain, holding the biggest stake, of 45% closed positions and ended it there....coool, cool,cool, so you realize there’s still a 95% short spread amongst....how many other shf were short? I’ll wait.....


Throwawayhelper420

Lots of funds were short GME, I don’t have an exact number, but it could probably be researched by someone with enough time. 140% was the sum of all shorts. I actually think you have it mostly right, just the implied conclusion is wrong. GME *was* still shorted at around 80%, after Melvin and a few others covered, at the end of Jan/early Feb, most funds didn’t cover. They took the next 6-8 months or so to slowly cover over time, so as not to effect the price as much since they had the funds to wait and smaller positions.


Vladi-Barbados

What do y'all make of this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_TPYuIRVfew&feature=youtu.be


BuckWild10

Covering his own ass, like everyone else. Why admit it when you can claim it's for the greater good? Y'all should be more skeptical instead of rushing to believe people just because they say what you want to hear.


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