Button was just lucky that they were in an unreliable backmarker car back in 2015, Alonso was faster overall(h2h qualy, race and average pace) especially in race pace, and also i think factors like Alonso's concussion and memory loss causing pre season crash and adapting to a new team flattered Button a lot.
They were about the same. In qualifying, Button even had a slight pace advantage in 15.
Alonso also loved to retire his car whenever he didn’t enjoyed it to drive anymore.
>They were about the same.
Not really, qualy wise yeah but not in terms of race pace.
> In qualifying, Button even had a slight pace advantage.
Lol, that's simply not true despite the early races where Button had clear advantage over Alonso because of the crash and the adaptation, Alonso was still ahead in the average gap.
>Alonso also loved to retire his car whenever he didn’t enjoyed it to drive anymore.
What is it suppose to be mean? That Alonso was slower? I assume you mean what Button said about something along the lines that if he was ahead of Alonso wanted to retire as if he was close to Alonso or something but he also ignored when reliability issues or luck hit when Alonso was ahead. (Malaysia, Spain, Canada,Austria, Britain, Italy, Singapore, COTA, Mexico )
It's possible to admit that George beat Lewis, that Lewis took on all the experimental setups effectively writing off the majority of his season, and that George was incredibly lucky with safety cars whilst Lewis was the opposite... Life ain't black and white.
The majority of the season?
Before the summer break the experiental setups had already stopped.
And George beats Lewis even without counting the races with experimental setups
George was incredibly consistent from the beginning of the season and managed to mostly stay out of trouble while Hamilton had I think 5 incidents (2 of which were during the experimental setups time anyway so we are already helping him by not counting them).
From the top of my head Hamilton had contact with Magnussen twice, Alonso once wrecking his car, Verstappen and when he cut the corner after Sainz overtook sending his car flying, after which he "surprisingly" had the only reliability DNF.
Russell I think only made contact with Zhou
Russell was great, he was incredibly reliable and did everything he was asked of. Saying he was better than Hamilton is just daft, unless you're blind you could see Hamilton always had the leg up in race pace. Part of me also wonders if Lewis' heart was really in it this year with the car being such a tractor compared to previous years.
Go watch Palmer's season review on the official channel. Russell and Hamilton's race pace and quali are basically the same. In fact they're the most closely matched teammates in the grid.
Hamilton is now at fault for drivers driving into him? The real torpedo this season was Russell who came away with his moves most of the time without serious damage.
I love how you are repeating that the Sainz incident in AD was the reason for his retirement despite Mercedes saying it wasn’t in their debrief.
Hamilton drove into Alonso, Hamilton chose to jump over the kerb, and Hamilton closed the door on Verstappen while he was there.
Magnussen I remember one contact was while fighting side by side and actually Hamilton ran slightly wide and Magnussen was sent off the track, and I can't remember the other contact with Magnussen tbh.
So saying people are driving into him seems a bit rich
The Alonso one was on him, probably his biggest mistake this year in addition to Singapore (whatever this was).
Verstappen being deemed at fault is not worth any conversation. Never was in control, even with a bigger gap, he would have crashed into Hamilton, no matter what.
The one you described was Spain, in which Hamilton was hugging the whole corner while Magnussen had all the place in the world. His fault, not Hamilton’s. Magnussen is doing these kind of moves pretty much every second race.
But hey, being responsible for one crash and nearly getting crashed out by every other driver is apparently on him. Kinda rich. No bias at all…..
Every single commentator (many ex-racing drivers) including skysports and Palmer himself in his analysis agreed Verstappen should not have been penalized.
And while Magnussen could have left more space he's not obligated to do so and Hamilton is the one that lost control of the car, went wider than intended and caused that collision.
I think that one is a racing incident too but Hamilton has been in quite a few incidents this year, and they've cost points
Enough that Russell finished ahead by more than a race win in the third best car and got the only win and pole for Merc this year.
Hamilton may have had better pace sometimes but Russell still played his hand better
The ex-drivers and pundits who only saw one specific angle and are arguing based on older overtake rules are more right than those who have more angles in hand and have the telemetry ? Come on, don’t be this silly.
In Spain, Hamilton hugged the apex lmao. Had no place to go while the other went closer and closer. Everyone said it was Magnussen at fault, who is known to perform these kind of manoeuvres at the race start.
90% of all incidents were caused by Hamiltons opponents, which were deemed at fault and got penalties for it. But hey the Redditor knows better. Keep interpreting the rules so it suits you…..
the average qualifying gap was in Hamiltons favour by a tenth the first half of the season and dropped to basically 0 in the second half. so if anything those experimental setups seem to have been faster
Well I think it’s just because if the general car troubles they experienced. From what I gathered there were a few runs in the beginning of the year where Hamilton had some unsuccessful experimental setup choices, but idk I guess.
Vettel could win 4 in a Red Bull and 0 in a Ferrari... Raikkonen = 4 time WDC, Fangio = 8 time WDC, Ascari = 8 time WDC, Lauda = 9 time WDC
***SCHUMACHER = 22 TIME CHAMPION OF THE WORLD***
He did, but thats not even comparable to how impressively the one and only nico - mr monster antibodies - rosberg beat both 7times wdc in equal machinery.
Its like a catching the words. Going against 2 time reigning champion as a rookie in the same machinery and be a main title contender before last 3-4 races speaks everything.
As u would like to hear mathematically Hamilton didn't beaten Alonso, but reality speaks everything.
Its not about maths its all about who was the better so I don't think that Alonso was better than Hamilton in 2007.
Tbh, I don't know, I wasn't watching formula 1 then.
But I did enjoy seeing how his own team was against Alonso and it cost them the WDC.
(When they pushed for a penalty for staying too long in the pitbox during qualifying)
I don't think either Alonso was fully fair to Lewis at the end of the day everyone knows that he isn't angel. He probably moaned multiple times to give him more benefits than Hamilton, cause on the track he really struggled to beat him.
Ofc McLaren didn't managed this situation well and at the end they have 1 less WCC and 1 less WDC in their history.
Mclaren, specifically Ron Dennis, favoured Hamilton over Alonso.
Even Lewis has confirmed it himself - https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/2761312/lewis-mclaren-favour-me
I'm not a huge Lewis fan or something but he and McLaren did nothing to wrong Alonso.
Alonso started the season as clear number 1 but after the first 2 races Hamilton kept matching Alonso despite running with higher fuel loads.
In Monaco Hamilton was carrying 6 laps more fuel and was blocked on the last lap and only then did he fall behind after being on top of Alonso all weekend. 6 laps of fuel is worth ca 3-9 tenths btw so was plenty enough for Hamilton to have taken a comfortable pole if not for the number 2 driver strategy.
Then in the race he wasn't allowed to use that extra fuel to stay out longer then his teammate and so lost the win to Alonso on a weekend he was far quicker.
The team responded by giving Hamilton equal fuel loads from Canada onwards and he charged to a comfortable wdc lead that was only lost by bad luck.
Alonso had nothing but himself to be angry at, he further hurt himself by blackmailing Ron Dennis asking for Hamilton to be sabotaged.
The only thing Hamilton did was to be too quick for Alonso to handle. And the only thing that McLaren did was to give their drivers equal status.
Got it from interviews and listening to Hamilton on some podcast but tbh don't remember where.
It's was something done within teams that had a hierarchy, the number 2 driver gets heavier fuel load so that they won't be an obstacle for the number 1 and steal points from them. It will insure that they can the use that fuel to overcut their way to 2nd in this scenario if the heavier fuel load had made the number 2 qualify below some other teams cars.
Hamilton said on beyond the grid that it was only at Canada onwards that they got equal fuel loads which was right after Monaco.
The issue for McLaren was that they just couldn't have Hamilton be the number 2 anymore when he was matching the number 1 despite having heavier fuel loads. It was breaking the plan.
Then wouldn't that give him different advantages since he can pit later?
Comment above makes it seem like it's just ballast, but that means there's better chances he can box under a Safety Car or go longer and overcut other drivers
>I don't think Alonso was better than Hamilton in 2007
I used to believe that too, until I heard some rumours about Ron Dennis actively supporting Hamilton against Alonso. At first, I dismissed them as nonsense until I saw the quali where Alonso infamously blocked Hamilton in the pits.
Yes, Alonso earned himself a deserved penalty for this and arguably lost the championship because of that stupid movie. The actual shady part was Alonso was given hards for all of Q3 while Hamilton was given the softs for all his runs - https://youtu.be/CWJCGInsVUs. There is no explanation for any team doing this when both drivers are expected to fight for pole.
I won't count it as definite beating since the beater already beaten by someone. He was better in that season in that machinery. But since Mclaren is a replica Ferrari they both beaten by Kimi if you can stretch the rules.
Edit note: That rules written by monaco based youtuber master anti body Nico Rosberg who have beaten 7 time world champion Lewis Hamilton in equal machinery who definetly knows every corner in the callendar and makes tutorial of how to beat Lewis in each corner.
So are You saying that all time great driver is beaten by 3 different teammates in the equal machinery???
One of them is youtuber and other took months to master sim racing
Half of Lewis’s teammates have beat him. Over half beat or drew with him. Is it that big of an achievement when it’s done this regularly? I can’t think of any other top driver with this stat, and that’s before you consider the fact he lost 3 WDC in the best car.
How dare you? Everyone knows Sir Lewis Hamilton is the best driver of all time, no one matches or even comes close to his level of skill, he is the undisputed GOAT, only lost to Rosberg because the team made his engine blow up, you are just a pathetic hater, Sir Lewis Hamilton is a 8 times WDC and Mercedes doesn't deserve him
To be fair Hamilton ran more experimental setups but that pic with George walking Lewis on a leash still sums up Merc’s 2022 season. In 2011 Jenson was favored by McLaren tho. Probably shouldn’t have turned out that way.
They had 3 seasons at McLaren and Jenson outscored Lewis overall.
I actually came across someone who claimed that Lewis single-handedly got McLaren 2nd in 2010, refusing to even acknowledge that JB was mathematically able to win the title going into Korea.
But only one of them is a Monaco based YouTuber. Point Rosberg.
With monster antibodies
I thought his name was Nico ?
OOOOOOOLLLKENBEAARRRRGHH
I completed the Lewis Hamilton time trials on GT Sport I was also using a PS4 so I guess you can add me to the list
🐐
Thanks! Myself and Lewis still have a good relationship too
IDK man he's been pretty much ignoring you, so there might be some issues on his side.
Same! Still wish they‘d bring the LH edition of the Merc VGT over to GT7, though.
Button beat Lewis AND Alonso in equal machinery
Button was just lucky that they were in an unreliable backmarker car back in 2015, Alonso was faster overall(h2h qualy, race and average pace) especially in race pace, and also i think factors like Alonso's concussion and memory loss causing pre season crash and adapting to a new team flattered Button a lot.
Dude chill it's just a fun fact. Errrrrrybody knows that Fernando is faster. Oh fuck, gave Massa PTSD with that last sentence
They were about the same. In qualifying, Button even had a slight pace advantage in 15. Alonso also loved to retire his car whenever he didn’t enjoyed it to drive anymore.
>They were about the same. Not really, qualy wise yeah but not in terms of race pace. > In qualifying, Button even had a slight pace advantage. Lol, that's simply not true despite the early races where Button had clear advantage over Alonso because of the crash and the adaptation, Alonso was still ahead in the average gap. >Alonso also loved to retire his car whenever he didn’t enjoyed it to drive anymore. What is it suppose to be mean? That Alonso was slower? I assume you mean what Button said about something along the lines that if he was ahead of Alonso wanted to retire as if he was close to Alonso or something but he also ignored when reliability issues or luck hit when Alonso was ahead. (Malaysia, Spain, Canada,Austria, Britain, Italy, Singapore, COTA, Mexico )
*sad Nico noises*
So did George
So did kimi
Dank
100m baby lets go
Beat him with what? Photocopying machinery?
Nah that's mclaren.
I can't believe it's taken this long for me to see someone mention that on this sub lol
We'll get some revisionist history by Hamilton fans who now have to say Hamilton beat Alonso but Russell didn't beat Hamilton
It's possible to admit that George beat Lewis, that Lewis took on all the experimental setups effectively writing off the majority of his season, and that George was incredibly lucky with safety cars whilst Lewis was the opposite... Life ain't black and white.
The majority of the season? Before the summer break the experiental setups had already stopped. And George beats Lewis even without counting the races with experimental setups George was incredibly consistent from the beginning of the season and managed to mostly stay out of trouble while Hamilton had I think 5 incidents (2 of which were during the experimental setups time anyway so we are already helping him by not counting them). From the top of my head Hamilton had contact with Magnussen twice, Alonso once wrecking his car, Verstappen and when he cut the corner after Sainz overtook sending his car flying, after which he "surprisingly" had the only reliability DNF. Russell I think only made contact with Zhou
Russell was great, he was incredibly reliable and did everything he was asked of. Saying he was better than Hamilton is just daft, unless you're blind you could see Hamilton always had the leg up in race pace. Part of me also wonders if Lewis' heart was really in it this year with the car being such a tractor compared to previous years.
Go watch Palmer's season review on the official channel. Russell and Hamilton's race pace and quali are basically the same. In fact they're the most closely matched teammates in the grid.
You're talking to a guy who worships hamilton. Ignore the guy.
Says the guy active on a drivers subreddit to worship someone too lmao. The irony.
Why am I not surprised. Yet another worshipper I see.
Hamilton is now at fault for drivers driving into him? The real torpedo this season was Russell who came away with his moves most of the time without serious damage. I love how you are repeating that the Sainz incident in AD was the reason for his retirement despite Mercedes saying it wasn’t in their debrief.
Hamilton drove into Alonso, Hamilton chose to jump over the kerb, and Hamilton closed the door on Verstappen while he was there. Magnussen I remember one contact was while fighting side by side and actually Hamilton ran slightly wide and Magnussen was sent off the track, and I can't remember the other contact with Magnussen tbh. So saying people are driving into him seems a bit rich
The Alonso one was on him, probably his biggest mistake this year in addition to Singapore (whatever this was). Verstappen being deemed at fault is not worth any conversation. Never was in control, even with a bigger gap, he would have crashed into Hamilton, no matter what. The one you described was Spain, in which Hamilton was hugging the whole corner while Magnussen had all the place in the world. His fault, not Hamilton’s. Magnussen is doing these kind of moves pretty much every second race. But hey, being responsible for one crash and nearly getting crashed out by every other driver is apparently on him. Kinda rich. No bias at all…..
Every single commentator (many ex-racing drivers) including skysports and Palmer himself in his analysis agreed Verstappen should not have been penalized. And while Magnussen could have left more space he's not obligated to do so and Hamilton is the one that lost control of the car, went wider than intended and caused that collision. I think that one is a racing incident too but Hamilton has been in quite a few incidents this year, and they've cost points Enough that Russell finished ahead by more than a race win in the third best car and got the only win and pole for Merc this year. Hamilton may have had better pace sometimes but Russell still played his hand better
The ex-drivers and pundits who only saw one specific angle and are arguing based on older overtake rules are more right than those who have more angles in hand and have the telemetry ? Come on, don’t be this silly. In Spain, Hamilton hugged the apex lmao. Had no place to go while the other went closer and closer. Everyone said it was Magnussen at fault, who is known to perform these kind of manoeuvres at the race start. 90% of all incidents were caused by Hamiltons opponents, which were deemed at fault and got penalties for it. But hey the Redditor knows better. Keep interpreting the rules so it suits you…..
Verstappen was deemed PREDOMINANTLY at fault. This doesn't mean Hamilton is completely innocent. Its basic reading comprehension mate.
the average qualifying gap was in Hamiltons favour by a tenth the first half of the season and dropped to basically 0 in the second half. so if anything those experimental setups seem to have been faster
Well I think it’s just because if the general car troubles they experienced. From what I gathered there were a few runs in the beginning of the year where Hamilton had some unsuccessful experimental setup choices, but idk I guess.
This is gonna be the narrative #TeamLH is gonna run with but George outscored him by 23 since the midseason break too.
Ah
George did it in his first season at a top team while having people turn in on him
It only counts when one of them wins the WDC.
So Hamilton didn't beat Alonso as all Hamilton fans always shout?
so much for beating your teammate when a certain iceman in a ferrari beat both of you to a potential 1st wdc
With Ferrari, which is a massive handicap in its own regard
Vettel could win 4 in a Red Bull and 0 in a Ferrari... Raikkonen = 4 time WDC, Fangio = 8 time WDC, Ascari = 8 time WDC, Lauda = 9 time WDC ***SCHUMACHER = 22 TIME CHAMPION OF THE WORLD***
*Mathematics*
He did, but thats not even comparable to how impressively the one and only nico - mr monster antibodies - rosberg beat both 7times wdc in equal machinery.
Its like a catching the words. Going against 2 time reigning champion as a rookie in the same machinery and be a main title contender before last 3-4 races speaks everything. As u would like to hear mathematically Hamilton didn't beaten Alonso, but reality speaks everything. Its not about maths its all about who was the better so I don't think that Alonso was better than Hamilton in 2007.
Tbh, I don't know, I wasn't watching formula 1 then. But I did enjoy seeing how his own team was against Alonso and it cost them the WDC. (When they pushed for a penalty for staying too long in the pitbox during qualifying)
I don't think either Alonso was fully fair to Lewis at the end of the day everyone knows that he isn't angel. He probably moaned multiple times to give him more benefits than Hamilton, cause on the track he really struggled to beat him. Ofc McLaren didn't managed this situation well and at the end they have 1 less WCC and 1 less WDC in their history.
Mclaren, specifically Ron Dennis, favoured Hamilton over Alonso. Even Lewis has confirmed it himself - https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/2761312/lewis-mclaren-favour-me
I'm not a huge Lewis fan or something but he and McLaren did nothing to wrong Alonso. Alonso started the season as clear number 1 but after the first 2 races Hamilton kept matching Alonso despite running with higher fuel loads. In Monaco Hamilton was carrying 6 laps more fuel and was blocked on the last lap and only then did he fall behind after being on top of Alonso all weekend. 6 laps of fuel is worth ca 3-9 tenths btw so was plenty enough for Hamilton to have taken a comfortable pole if not for the number 2 driver strategy. Then in the race he wasn't allowed to use that extra fuel to stay out longer then his teammate and so lost the win to Alonso on a weekend he was far quicker. The team responded by giving Hamilton equal fuel loads from Canada onwards and he charged to a comfortable wdc lead that was only lost by bad luck. Alonso had nothing but himself to be angry at, he further hurt himself by blackmailing Ron Dennis asking for Hamilton to be sabotaged. The only thing Hamilton did was to be too quick for Alonso to handle. And the only thing that McLaren did was to give their drivers equal status.
Why would they make Hamilton have higher fuel loads for the entire race? Where did you get that from? Or was he bad at lift and coast?
Got it from interviews and listening to Hamilton on some podcast but tbh don't remember where. It's was something done within teams that had a hierarchy, the number 2 driver gets heavier fuel load so that they won't be an obstacle for the number 1 and steal points from them. It will insure that they can the use that fuel to overcut their way to 2nd in this scenario if the heavier fuel load had made the number 2 qualify below some other teams cars. Hamilton said on beyond the grid that it was only at Canada onwards that they got equal fuel loads which was right after Monaco. The issue for McLaren was that they just couldn't have Hamilton be the number 2 anymore when he was matching the number 1 despite having heavier fuel loads. It was breaking the plan.
[удалено]
Then wouldn't that give him different advantages since he can pit later? Comment above makes it seem like it's just ballast, but that means there's better chances he can box under a Safety Car or go longer and overcut other drivers
[удалено]
>I don't think Alonso was better than Hamilton in 2007 I used to believe that too, until I heard some rumours about Ron Dennis actively supporting Hamilton against Alonso. At first, I dismissed them as nonsense until I saw the quali where Alonso infamously blocked Hamilton in the pits. Yes, Alonso earned himself a deserved penalty for this and arguably lost the championship because of that stupid movie. The actual shady part was Alonso was given hards for all of Q3 while Hamilton was given the softs for all his runs - https://youtu.be/CWJCGInsVUs. There is no explanation for any team doing this when both drivers are expected to fight for pole.
I won't count it as definite beating since the beater already beaten by someone. He was better in that season in that machinery. But since Mclaren is a replica Ferrari they both beaten by Kimi if you can stretch the rules. Edit note: That rules written by monaco based youtuber master anti body Nico Rosberg who have beaten 7 time world champion Lewis Hamilton in equal machinery who definetly knows every corner in the callendar and makes tutorial of how to beat Lewis in each corner.
Ah, like Kimi in 07
First Jenson, then Rosberg, and now George
Kimi was the first in 2007.
Wasn’t he in Ferrari? Wait a minute
So are You saying that all time great driver is beaten by 3 different teammates in the equal machinery??? One of them is youtuber and other took months to master sim racing
Alonso beat him in worse machinery all those 4 years
Someone check on Nico!
Also equal nationality
Half of Lewis’s teammates have beat him. Over half beat or drew with him. Is it that big of an achievement when it’s done this regularly? I can’t think of any other top driver with this stat, and that’s before you consider the fact he lost 3 WDC in the best car.
How dare you? Everyone knows Sir Lewis Hamilton is the best driver of all time, no one matches or even comes close to his level of skill, he is the undisputed GOAT, only lost to Rosberg because the team made his engine blow up, you are just a pathetic hater, Sir Lewis Hamilton is a 8 times WDC and Mercedes doesn't deserve him
To be fair Hamilton ran more experimental setups but that pic with George walking Lewis on a leash still sums up Merc’s 2022 season. In 2011 Jenson was favored by McLaren tho. Probably shouldn’t have turned out that way.
Goats don’t lose to Nico Rosberg in equal equipment.
One year out of how many? And I disagree. Rosberg is a race winning driver and in a given year, in a Mercedes, he could have beat anyone.
They had 3 seasons at McLaren and Jenson outscored Lewis overall. I actually came across someone who claimed that Lewis single-handedly got McLaren 2nd in 2010, refusing to even acknowledge that JB was mathematically able to win the title going into Korea.