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baldbarretto

Love a bit of Horner revisionism. No one is arguing that mclaren worked but “never quite worked out” sounds like he was floundering the whole time at Renault


CrabsolutelyBullshit

Yeah but he would have done far better in the red bull


basmati-rixe

He would’ve done better but there was genuine hype for Renault. They had just finished P4 in the WCC and had spent massive amounts of money developing the car and facilities. There was genuine reason for Danny Ric to go to Renault.


Joem1991

People also forget RB was taking on Honda after years of being the shittest PU, and in 2018 RedBull were fairly solidified as only the 3rd best team, and only became 2nd best in 2020 because Ferrari were nerfed. It's easy with hindsight to know what was the right choice, but at the time DR left Renault, never mind Redbull, Redbull were still far behind Mercedes and unlikely to win a championship.


endersai

>There was genuine reason for Danny Ric to go to Renault. But he also, I think, absolutely needed to get out of Red Bull to just establish his identity. Mostly, to see if he could sustain things outside of Red Bull and build a new team around him. Monza 2021 is part of that validation as are the 2 Renault podiums in 2020. But the McLaren journey went in the wrong direction. But we shouldn't downplay how important winning across multiple teams is. Most of the greats won for more than one team - Lewis at McLaren and Merc; Fernando at Renault, McLaren and Ferrari; Seb at STR, Red Bull and Ferrari; Michael at Benetton and Ferrari; Prost at Renault, McLaren, Ferrari and Williams; Senna at Lotus and McLaren; Lauda at Ferrari, Brabham and McLaren; Stewart at Matra and Tyrrell, etc.


theoryofthecrows_

>But he also, I think, absolutely needed to get out of Red Bull to just establish his identity. You can say that about Gasly and Albon, but I absolutely do not believe Ricciardo, who beat Vettel in his first season at Red Bull and had multiple race wins under his belt, *needed* to leave Red Bull to establish his identity. In reality, he started losing ground against Max, jumped ship to Renault, quickly jumped ship again to McLaren, and in the process of that just lost his edge.


heimdallofasgard

The writing was on the wall for red bull though, they were going to be team max at the expense of Ricciardo becoming a second driver. He didn't want that, red bull were developing the car for max and not for Ricciardo, he went to Renault, established himself as a number 1 driver, went to McLaren after Renault failed to meet expectations, but couldn't handle the car there which Norris had time to grow accustomed to.


What_the_8

Exactly. Oriole point to the lack of results as the reason Ricciardo should have stayed. Well the Max results are exactly the reason he needed to leave if he wanted a shot at the driver championship, which he did.


f1_spelt_as_bot

Ricc**i**ardo


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Jesse_VdV

Max was already faster in 2017? After that Max got a little silly for 6 races and since summer break 2018 it was very clear Ricciardo would be no match for Max from that point on It wasn't just "reliability", I dont think he ever DNFed when he was in front of Max anyway


quantinuum

> Most of the greats won for more than one team As a Nando stan, I’m upset you didn’t give a shoutout to my man - 20 years, 6 team changes, many reg/engine/tire changes and always fighting. Edit: I’m stupid.


MCBeathoven

He's literally second in the list?


quantinuum

And I’m literally blind. My bad.


endersai

> Edit: I’m stupid. Thanks Charles LeClerc. I've seen Fernando race for Renault, Ferrari, and McLaren. My first ever F1 model as an adult collector (the BBurago Prost Renault doesn't count) was Fernado's 2012 Ferrari that I bought from Museo Ferrari in 2013. I have walked the path of the El Nano fan for many years.


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LetsLive97

>He left because he wanted to be the man. Which a perfectly reasonable reason to leave. He would have been almost 100% guaranteed to be a 2nd driver under max whereas moving to Renault could allow him to become a number 1 driver and potentially win a WDC if they kept improving the car. Sure in hindsight it might have been better to stay at Redbull but the chance of retaining number 1 was probably worth the move.


dl064

Yeah, Daniel talked about emulating Hamilton at Mercedes, but that was a *very* facile reading of that situation. There was a lot more going on in that circumstance.


F9-0021

He left because he didn't want to be Perez, Albon, or Gasly. That is to say, the 5% left after 95% goes into Max.


Mortytowngang

But the hype never ended up working out? Team is on their 3rd 5-year plan to the front of the grid.


rcanbian

Sure? But that's with the benefit of hindsight, which Daniel didn't have when he signed on to Renault. Basically, there was nothing stupid about Danny leaving RB at the time (alright, maybe it was a little sketchy that he went to the team who provided them with unreliable engines--but it seemed at the time that they were working to improve it).


Mr_Chena

Ricciardo had been the #1 at Redbull ever since Seb left and then, he saw that he was being pushed to the #2 spot by Max. He only had two options- stay and eventually be pushed to the second driver role or leave and be #1 at some other team. Ferrari and Mercedes had all their seats filled and even if they had a vacancy, nobody was picking him over Lewis or Seb for the top spot. So his next best option was Renault, #4 in the last season. It also helped that they were willing to shell out the big bucks for him. It looked good at that point in time. Ofcourse, Renault never looked too great since the Alonso double, but they were a solid team with massive investments. It only looks stupid now because they stagnated and he jumped ship to Mclaren only to get stuck there. Even his Mclaren move looked logical and they were the 3rd best team in 2021. Only if they hadn't messed up the 2022 regs.


mjwood28

He was better off not being Max’s no 2 IMO


achinda99

He would have likely had similar results to Renault. But it would have been frustrating for him as he felt the lack of support in comparison to Max and feeling like he's always battling Max.


zen_tm

Depends on your metrics. Financially? I doubt it..


arno14

I’d say that’s right, considering he said he left RB because he wants to win races and, most importantly, have a shot at WDC. It’s clear he mostly left because Cyril gave him an offer he couldn’t refuse after the nasty Renault breakup with RBR - and that’s OK too.


onealps

> It’s clear he mostly left because Cyril gave him an offer he couldn’t refuse Wasn't another reason he left that he could sense that RB was pivoting towards making Max the #1 priority and Daniel didn't want to play the #2 driver role, like Pierre, Albon and now Checo have done?


Alfus

That was one of Ricciardo main reasons, he didn't want to become the second driver aside that he didn't believe in the Honda project also. His move to Renault makes a lot of sense if you have that in you mind, his move to McLaren however....


baldbarretto

I wonder how much the Honda side played into it, because surely he had the same access as max to the toro rosso data and Honda roadmap for how this would be different - I’d be surprised if he could see that and still say no, this is McHonda 2.0, I’m out


pocket_mulch

RB was also switching to Honda, which could have been a downgrade. Hindsight.......


PrimG84

But then when he has (I assume) an opportunity to be the #1 driver at Haas or Williams, he doesn't want to, seemingly because he thinks he doesn't want to be a backmarker? Even though he has been one at Mclaren... Seems like our Danny boy thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. I'm sure he was to be in Checo's seat now.


Lizerelli

The biggest reason that he went back to red bull is to keep a foot in the door. He’s mentally exhausted and as he told Lando in Abu Dhabi „not doing 24 races next year mate“. Red Bull gives him the opportunities to step away for a bit, while still working around the F1 paddock/circus. Also taking part in the sim, etc. keeps him fresh for an eventual drive in 2024 (even maybe in RBR however small that chance may be).


Raycodv

The-Race coined something to the likes of: “Ricciardo wants to be sure that he’s “still got it”, by taking a year off and seeing if he can make it work in a team he knows he can perform with. He also might want to try to get his hands on the RB16B to see if he really just doesn’t gel with the characteristics of the McLarens of if he’s lost “it” with age or something. He doesn’t want to jump into another year in another car, with the risk that he’ll damage his reputation further.”


Goodmorning111

People forget how good Ricciardo was in that Renault. In 2020 he regularly got it results it definitely did not deserve.


basmati-rixe

He placed P5 in the championship that season. Considering he was against the 2 Mercedes, Max and was only 6 points behind a fantastic Checo season in the pink Mercedes, Danny Rics 2020 season is truly underrated.


ZealousidealFox1391

Probably still is pissed at cyril


rydude88

Its not revisionism. DR himself said he was leaving Red Bull to try to get wins and championships somewhere else. He isnt wrong to say it never quite worked out


dl064

Yeah. Did it make sense to go at the time? Well...not really, but for his sake let's say it did based on info he had. Is he *back at RBR without much success?* Yes he is. So it didn't work out.


Southportdc

It didn't work out, but that doesn't mean it was a mistake to leave. If you're the weaker driver in your team and want a WDC, the only way you can improve your WDC odds is going somewhere that you'll be the best driver and where the team may be able to deliver a WDC winning car. Realistically Renault were the only option available to him, assuming Ferrari were always set on Charles for 2019. Everyone else either had a better driver or had no real prospect of delivering the best car on the grid.


dl064

> Realistically Renault were the only option available to him, assuming Ferrari were always set on Charles for 2019. > > Yeah, he was saying the big career-defining shock for him was how disinterested Ferrari were. He'd always thought they were planning on him.


Odd-Location-9338

if you don't have the car which is like >90% of the equation in F1, you're NEVER going win a title. There are only 3 cars on the grid that can regularly win and we all know which 3 they are and none of them rhyme with "Penault" or "MuhFarin" so if he wanted to really win the title then signing for any team that isn't the big 3 is pure dumb.


Southportdc

Change the team names and people said the same about Hamilton moving to Mercedes.


DazzlingDifficulty70

It wouldn't have worked out if he had stayed at RB neither


dl064

He'd have won races and had the *opportunity* to fight for titles, pretty clearly.


KennyLagerins

I don’t think so. Even early on it was fairly obvious the team were going to back Max. That’s most of the reason he left to begin with, he didn’t want to be a number 2. He might have been able to support a WCC run, but I don’t think RB would have let him fight openly with Max a la Ham/Ros.


zen_tm

He's a reserve driver now. So not exactly "back" with the team in any real sense. He's betting on replacing Checo.


baldbarretto

His fans are betting on his replacing checo. His actual interviews speak to his pretty much being burned tf out, *wanting* a role with less trackside responsibility and attendance requirement without being completely disconnected from f1, happy to do the marketing stuff, wanting to be back in an environment where he has history and that long-standing positive relationship, and completely open to the possibility of never being in f1 again - though he is hoping that he arrives at that decision through personal clarity versus wanting back in and meeting a lack of options. there are many better ways to gun for checo’s seat than to take as many vacation days as possible to go to your farm, do a trans American road trip, etc.


KennyLagerins

Idk that he necessarily wants it immediately, but the team have a nice ace in their back pocket in case Checo tries to act out. Say what you want, but the team revolves around Max, and Checo’s more likely to toe the line of expectations to support Max if he knows a race winning driver is there to take his place if he doesn’t.


zen_tm

Marko will want to know if Daniel is faster than Checo. If RIC is much faster than PER in the SIM, it will become a necessity to swap them out, due to the performance gains. It's better to have two fast drivers and sort out the headache than one slow one who toes the line. If it's marginal, no problem keeping the status quo due to the "Harmonious environment" (doesn't seem that harmonious currently) They have plenty of data on RIC v VER, so it's just a matter of seeing how the performance metrics stack up after a few years out. I'm certain that RIC has looked at the gap between PER and VER and remembered very clearly how close he was in Therefore he must fancy his chances. Given the fact that so many have tried and failed, he is actually one of, if not the best teammate competition VER has had to date.


DazzlingDifficulty70

I mean if he had stayed with RB alongside Max he wouldn't have stood a chance for championships neither. Not least because it was obvious RB were favoring Max.


SimAirRB

Daniel Ricciardo was able to win as a rookie against Sebastian Vettel that was literally Red Bull's world champion driver, were they favoring an unproven talent or did he simply had a better performance? There's no proof of Red Bull favoring one driver over another back in 2016-2018. DR had beaten Max 2 times but wasn't able to keep up with a rapidly improving Max in his last season at Red Bull.


DazzlingDifficulty70

Baku 2018 crash is the biggest proof for me, when they didn't clearly say the crash was Max's fault. If Danny needed a single reason to leave the team, this was it.


zen_tm

Apologies, meant to reply to the one above. Agreed BTW. That said, he may have a few more wins and a marginally better rep, if they didn't cycle him out for one of the others. (But less money)


space_coyote_86

He went left Red Bull to win races and championships.


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helderdude

I think it didn't work out is a correct description of both his stunts out side of RB. I don't think that's him saying he under preformed or struggled at both teams. I mean if it had worked out at Renault he wouldn't have left so soon.


Razgriz27

It's not revisionism, his opinion has been the same the second Daniel told him he was leaving, that it was a big mistake which he couldn't understand the reasoning behind. Time proved Horner right. Daniel didn't achieve anything in Renault that he couldn't have RB, and then McLaren happened...


baldbarretto

Daniel himself said he achieved things at Renault which he couldn’t have at RB - leaving his comfort zone and the infrastructure he was raised in and proving he could still be successful and respected in his own right.


Razgriz27

I'm talking results-wise, even if he finished right behind Max in every race, he'd still be more successful in RB than in Renault. Now, if he needed to prove himself then I'd agree he took a step forwards in Renault and five steps backwards at McLaren, ultimately destroying his reputation.


JynnanTonnyxxx

No, Horner said that Danny was "running away from a fight", when he was really running away from being made number 2 driver like Mark Webber.


Razgriz27

Dietrich and Horner assured Daniel he'd be on equal terms and gave him a carbon copy of Max's contract, yet he still refused. That's why Horner was baffled, what else could he offer? Only Marko, as usual, ran his mouth with bs implying he wanted to give Max priority in the long term, which of naturally didn't sit well with Daniel's team nor Horner. He could've pulled a Rosberg, if you will. He had the pace to be a champion but we will never know because he never gave it a shot.


endersai

> No one is arguing that mclaren worked but “never quite worked out” sounds like he was floundering the whole time at Renault Ah yes, the year he was 4th in the standings whilst Racing Point failed to capitalise on their Mercedes clone and only lost 4th when they got it under control, falling behind Checo late in the game to finish 5th behind Hamilton, Verstappen, Bottas and Perez. Yes, what a disappointing season. Sad thing is, with the momentum he had, he could've smashed it at Alpine in 2021 and with Fernando as team mate.


sundark94

>with the momentum he had, he could've smashed it at Alpine in 2021 But Renault was going through a massive management shuffle and Prost has put it on record that they were considering walking away from F1. The Alpine rebrand and confirmation that they would continue in F1 happened only in *September 2020*, while Ricciardo had signed with McLaren in *May*. 4 months is a long time in any negotiation, especially when F1 negotiations happen during the season. You only have 6-7 months to find a seat for your bum, and people always put the blame for this solely on RIC.


endersai

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think his decision to leave was poorly made at the time. And I still think Monza is one of the most beautiful victories I've seen, up there with Germany 2009 or Spain 2016 for the emotional heft of it.


baldbarretto

I don’t recall an Alonso-Ricciardo lineup ever being on the cards. Going into 2020 Cyril made reference to having a few years to build the team with the current lineup (Ricciardo-ocon), and Ocon had a 2 year deal. Who’s to say what would have happened after 21 but surely the most likely options would be Ricciardo-ocon or Ricciardo-piastri And i second what else has been said about ricciardo’s decision to leave coming long before the renewed Renault funding and interest which made Alpine a thing


theoryofthecrows_

>Ah yes, the year he was 4th 5th, actually.


endersai

Read carefully. 4th until racing point got their merc copy working.


beardedboob

It didn’t work out in a sense, as he never competed on the same level as at RBR. He might’ve done well, but neither team he went to were as competitive as the team he left.


Raycodv

It depends on what the goal was. If the goal was “be a teamleader in a midfield team with the slight chance they’d start contending for race wins at some point” then it was mission accomplished. If the goal was “to regularly be in contention to win races in the near future and challenge for championships” then it never quite worked out indeed.


DinoKebab

That's not revisionism. Surely his plan by moving to Renault was to do much much better even aim for a WDC (no matter how crazy that sounds). And yet that didn't happen, he would have done better staying at red bull. Aka... it didn't quite work out.


killer_blueskies

I guess on hindsight, Daniel would have been fighting for wins last and this year - and even the chance at the championship - had he stayed at Red Bull.


baldbarretto

Daniel was already losing ground to max second half of 2018, if you look beyond the reliability issues at pace. No one could argue max is anything but a far superior driver going into 21 than in 18. Red Bull knew they were going up against a team which implicitly knew they’d be backing Hamilton if there was a real inter-team title fight. Find it hard to imagine Ricciardo would have gotten a crack at the championship - as soon as max gets slightly ahead on points, the team align behind him to try to maximize his chances against such a powerhouse team and opponent.


tommycthulhu

Didnt work doesnt only mean he was bad. Can also mean that no particular success came from that partnership, which is true.


baldbarretto

No particular success to Horner’s eye - whereas Ricciardo describes 2020 as the year he was driving the best, his p5 as a real triumph for him, and those Renault podiums as something he’s immensely proud of (and which were certainly considered a success for the team)


tommycthulhu

All of which and more was guaranteed if he stayed in RB. Thats what Horner means.


theoryofthecrows_

>sounds like he was floundering the whole time at Renault The true revisionism is people overhyping Ricciardo's Renault stint in hindsight. He had one *decent* season for Renault where he came 5th. Not to mention that he had jumped ship again at that point.


RPBTinesIII

Eh. He made like 70 mil.


jpm168

Exactly, he most likely would've had the exact number of championships as he has now if he stayed, zero. He would've won a few more races, but 20 years down the line it makes no difference if he had 8 or 18 wins, but 70 or 40 mil in the bank does.


baldbarretto

His Red Bull contract had points, podiums, and wins bonuses, so I think the cash deficit wouldn’t be so great


jpm168

Perhaps, anyway it's all hypothetical... but the number on the bank statement is real.


asianperswayze

> but 20 years down the line it makes no difference if he had 8 or 18 wins, but 70 or 40 mil in the bank does. Have to disagree here. I think in 20 years they matter about the same, and that's very little. Someone isn't going to live a vastly different lifestyle because they made 70 million vs 40 million. 70 million vs 1 million would make a difference, but that's not what you're talking about.


Cekeste

The prestige loss might be worth more in money though.


bobbybiropette

30 mil for an ego boost?


DriftL0rd

Well now he isn't an F1 driver and presumably isn't being paid much by comparison, because he hurt his prestige by being slow at McLaren


maskapony

This year he still is being paid 20 million because McLaren had to buy out his contract.


ogpterodactyl

I think the extra money is nice if it’s what you value. However I think if you devote your life to something and felt you had a chance to be world champion messing up your chance to achieve that hurts. If he stuck it out with max a few years he would at least know the car was good enough it was just him lacking or he might be a world champion like rossberg.


jpm168

He wouldn't have left if he was convinced he can beat anyone in equal cars, he knew he could only do it if somehow Renault came up with a better one than RB.


PenskeFiles

Rather have 18 wins and millions. The money is coming regardless.


jpm168

Bird in hand is worth two in the trees. Nobody remembers how many wins Keke Rosberg has but they probably know he's a champion.


Waste_Tumbleweed

And Danny could have had a real shot at a Championship if he’d had stayed at RBR. People say he wouldn’t, but do we all forget that Checo was in the running still after 10 races. That’s with a car developed around Max, who has a similar race style as Max.


hostage_85

People forget the next Redbull contract for Danny would have been 2 years.Max wasn't fighting for the championship until 2021, which would have been the 3rd year. His decision to go to renault was correct. He's decision to go to McLaren wasn't.


lll-devlin

You are forgetting that Danny took the money and ran because he knew he was not going to be number 1 driver when Max came in. It was clear that Marko was bullish on Max.


Minimanzz

Guy was earning 20-25m a year at Renault vs 6m base at RB. Cant say I blame him


Real-Mouse-554

He doesnt offer money up as a reason though. If we go by the motivations Daniel has given, then it was a mistake. I think the money is an excellent reason, but you will never get an athlete to admit that.


Thewackman

No it wasn't. He left because he wanted to be clear number 1. He was a Renault. He just wasn't good enough when he tried at a better team again in McLaren.


helderdude

To be fair he redbull would have increased his pay but he never started negotiations with them. I don't think it's unlikely he would have gotten 15 mil at RB


second-last-mohican

His race win bonuses would have gotten him near to that figure and he'd still be in a seat next year


Minimanzz

Max got 12m in bonuses for 2021 & he got a sh*t tonne of wins, podiums & poles, not to mention winning the title. Even if Daniel were capable of equalling Max’s success, the bonuses still don’t top his payout from Renault/McLaren.


yallscrazy

People love to ignore stuff like this and do people think he'd make the same on advertisements if he's destroying his career at McLaren vs winning races at RB. Danny threw away 100 mil over his lifetime. Easy.


AggrOHMYGOD

What math are you using? Look at the reported bonuses to Max, with Danny winning say 1-2 races a year, he’d still be making less than half of the Renault deal. When you’re making $30m/yr vs $10m after bonuses, what do you expect lol And that’s assuming there was no goals in the Renault.


Eswyft

Rofl no, you severely over estimate endorsement


yallscrazy

Rofl no, you severely underestimate endorsements


xdoc6

Lots of major athletes make more money from endorsements than from their actually salary… see all the big tennis players, see Michael Jordan, see Tiger Woods, apparently Renaldo makes more money from Instagram than from his team, etc. etc. etc.


Adi347

Maaaaaateeeeee you’re grossly over-estimating how much these drivers are making. It’s still silly money, but Daniel would not have earned near the same money if he had stayed in RB.


crypto6g

Eh, everyone thinks that once they get to a certain amount of rich that money is worthless but I’m sure our opinions would change if we were in that spot. To normal people, 30m vs 70m seems like the same amount, you’ll never have to work again, chase your dreams, buy everything you’ve ever wanted, houses, cars and still have millions and millions left over to sit comfy and rich. But when you’re in that position you don’t think like that. When you’re that rich, I’m sure it’s a bigger difference and that amount of money means a lot more to you.


irr1449

Right. Like I’m wishing I could afford a 1k DD sim racing wheel. If I was rich I might be wishing I could afford a track car. Even richer, maybe I want a real GT3. More rich? Now I want to race my GT3. There is always another level when it comes to buying “things.” Look at the super rich and their mega yachts.


KingoftheHill63

Nah I think your wrong. In 20 years he'll regret not winning 18 races. The money will help sure but heaps of people have 70 mill in their bank but 18 wins would be rarefied air.


jpm168

Can you name the drivers that has 18 wins and 8 wins? I can't.


Effervee

He wouldn't really have won very more. Maybe a handful of extra ones but he didn't want to play second fiddle to max so he left to go to try and succeed elsewhere. He was unlucky sure but you can only say that in hindsight. He made the correct decision at the time. He couldn't have known Renault would implode or McLaren would be such a bad fit.


ubelmann

Same number of WDC? Yes. I wonder with Ricciardo instead of Checo in 2021 if the WCC would have been closer that year, maybe going to Red Bull. Checo's good, but had Ricciardo continued to grow at Red Bull, he potentially could have been better. And this year, provided his McLaren performance is unrepresentative of his talent (I'm not fully convinced either way), he could have potentially gotten a WCC. I know it's a team award instead of an individual award, but I imagine it would feel pretty great compared with generally finishing off the podium and not being in the WDC or WCC chase.


jpm168

True the WCC could've gone to RBR, but Lewis might have been an 8 time champ if Ric had taken points off Max!


TowarzyszSowiet

Ric would be taking points off Lewis too. I don't see how the championship would be more in favour of Hamilton with that killer middle season RBR had.


Hephaistas

I wish I did something stupid in my life to make 70m


drjman

Stupid rich.


[deleted]

I bet he would have made more id stayed, prolly still be racing 🫤


f10101

He'd have left RB after a season or two anyway, after being increasingly disrespected by them and relegated to second driver.


[deleted]

I mean, he was the second driver for a reason. Max is not the future, he's the present.


f10101

Yep. And it would be perfectly reasonable for RB to prioritise and build around Max. Since the day Ric announced he was leaving, Horner has always annoyed me with how he denies this obvious reality.


Xanthon

[Well, most of us felt the same way back in 2018,](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/948p59/megathread_daniel_ricciardo_will_leave_red_bull/)


RTrent6

Always love seeing the time capsules in the comments of these posts, interesting to see what everyone was saying at the time and predictions


Srikrishnakarthik

Damn


Rydahx

I'm sure staying at Red Bull and being a number 2 would have worked out great for him. Why even make this comment? Seems strange.


Brandon-Heato

Anyone else remembers on DTS when Horner pretended to not remember his name not even 3 months after he left redbull


Blapstap

And this https://streamable.com/nxgkz


Ho3n3r

He's aged a lot in 4 years.


Retawtrams

COVID did it to us all I feel like.


second-last-mohican

Well hed probably still have a seat if he stayed and probably more highly regarded as his shit performance may cost him getting another one. Being close to max, and probably taking out #2 wdc he'd be on fire.


cheezus171

> Being close to max, and probably taking out #2 wdc he'd be on fire. I'm sorry but there's no way in hell RIC would've been close to Max these past 2 years. RIC was close to Max, when DR was in his prime and Max was 19 years old. Now RIC is well past his prime, and max is 3 times the driver he was 4-5 years ago. Max would be lapping Ricciardo in the same car these days.


Jake_the_snake94

You're forgetting, if Horner's name isn't in a news article every week he withers away to a husk. Better say something arrogant and twatish and keep people talking about him


CrabsolutelyBullshit

I mean, they request interviews and he answers questions


Mrcq99

But Horner bad /s


bodhi85uk

How he answers the questions is up to him.


Zazali01

He's a 3rd driver at RB now ... Anyways the biggest mistake was Renault IMO


LeMonza_

I don't think it was. I think it was McLaren. If he stayed at Renault 'to have a team built around him' as they originally stated, he may have been able to compete for podiums in an Alpine and have fat stacks of cash.


ResilientBeast

Isn’t he 4th? Lawson is their reserve I thought


Jarocket

Red bull fucked up IMO. When they have max like 5x Danny's pay. If you want to keep him you offer him the same deal or at least closer to it mid contract. Like you say hey Danny we want you to drive for us for a while. Here's some cash. Wasn't the rumor that they offered him equal to max for that year he left? Should have done it right after you signed max if you were going to do it anyway. It's like giving the employee who's got an offer elsewhere a raise after... (Not quite, but you get the idea)


miathan52

I don't think they fucked up, I'd say everything worked out just fine for RB, given this year and last year. Having 2 competitive drivers in a championship capable car isn't necessarily something good. It'll probably give you the constructor's, but it'll probably also give you headaches and a ruined team atmosphere. The way Checo was able to assist Max's championship last year and the way he won Singapore this year when Max wasn't in contention were perfect for RB.


ZekkPacus

They've cycled through three second drivers in four years trying to replace him. Being a one man team is fine when you have an utterly dominant car, like they did this year. But when you're only a tenth or so ahead of the competition, you need two drivers who can extract the maximum if you want to win championships.


Chelsea75

I’d have to hear the actual quote but “did something stupid” sounds like typical Horner tongue in cheek humor more than any serious comment


snapdragon801

I think he decided to leave RB that day in Baku.


didhedowhat

Question? Who made the bigger gamble. Ricciardo going to Renault, a worse performing factory team at the moment. Or Verstappen staying, hoping that the change of the team to the Honda engine would not become McLaren 2.0.


war_duck_gr

Ricciard. Honda was already with Toro Rosso internally it should have been known what kind of engine they were hetting.


Jupiter_lover1

No shit Sherlock


HotSexWithGrandad

Man went from Red Bull 1st driver, to 2nd driver, to 4th driver in the space of 5 years.


shogi_x

Hindsight is 20/20. Easy to criticize someone else's decision years after the fact.


FullyStacked92

It was very easy and obvious to criticise it the day he announced it. Redbulls biggest issue that year was the engine and he goes and leaves for the team that makes it? It was beyond stupid.


ilikeracing23

Daniel’s balls are made of flesh, not crystal. In 2018, Red Bull were leaving an unreliable engine supplier to a then-even more unreliable and *slower* engine, whilst he was being positioned as #2 and Renault looked like they were on the upswing. If you got offered mega bucks in that scenario, would you turn that down? Half the people claiming him leaving RB was “stupid” are the same people who were commenting in 2018 that he’d left the “sinking ship” in Red Bull.


Chesey_

Exactly, was there genuinely anyone in 2018 who thought Honda could make an engine that could challenge for the title by 2021? Very much doubt it. Even if Red Bull would be challenging for the title, it was also becoming pretty clear Max was the priority. Danny Ric had no chance of a title either way regardless, so he went and made some money.


KeenanJF

Well the news that they were dropping renault and picking up honda was probably a turn off for ric. I love honda, but looking at their past performance with mclaren doesn’t really give you any sort of reassurance.


ayakabob

So stupid to turn down 25M as opposed to <10M Yep


i_dont_care_1943

Horner has said in the past multiple times that Ricciardo was offered a massive contract, but he turned it down to leave. He left to avoid becoming a number 2 driver and have a chance at winning a championship. Money may have been an incentive, but it was not the main reason. It was always a stupid idea though to me. How are you going to win a championship when you don't even have the confidence to face one of your potential rivals in the same car. He needed to realize that, while he was an incredibly talented driver, he was not good enough to win a title.


f1_spelt_as_bot

Ricc**i**ardo


helderdude

That can't be true. He said Danny Ric's announcement was a complete shock to them and they hadn't even started negotiations yet.


willzyx01

Only Horner has criticized his decision to leave since the minute they found out he is leaving.


Disastrous_Big_329

It's a 100% hindsight thing. I can see why he left for Renault, at a time when he conceivably thought he was escaping from a "driver number two" scenario, and I can see what drove him to move on to McLaren, albeit this time with disastrous consequences. Whether Ricciardo has got it in him to come good again (or whether he ever really had the level of potential he was credited with) is one of the biggest puzzles in the sport.


squaler24

I think it would have ended badly had he stayed. Worse than the Hamilton/Rosberg debacle.


jug_23

Not sure about that - they’d never have been allowed to race like Mercedes’ did with their team.


fieldOfThunder

You’re right, Max always follows team orders 🫡


jug_23

I meant more that Ricc would’ve been constantly moved aside for Max, which was basically the reasoning he gave for leaving in the first place.


fieldOfThunder

Ah gotcha yeah.


wicktus

It's not delicate to say this but frankly this is more aimed towards his own drivers, juniors RB included. I understand Ricciardo's feeling at that moment. What I don't understand was, just after fitting comfortably with Renault and getting strong results, he left for McLaren, he wasn't threatened by a Verstappen there, he wasn't struggling and Renault or McLaren were rather similar, midfield teams with ambitious plans for 2022+ (sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but they are massively invested) IMO. That's the move I will never understand, he was doing so well in the renault after some "ironing" time.


1234iamfer

Honestly I think if he was still at RB at 2021, Horner would be pulling his hairs every race because Danny and Max would be competing every race like Baku ‘18. Than Lewis would win his 8th WDC like Kimi did in 2007.


hostage_85

This is probably True... If they were together in 2021, they'd have taken to many points of each other and Hamilton would have taken the championship.


Somlal

Why is he criticised for leaving a team? Does Horner really believe that someone who joined as a teen should stay until retirement? And sure it's easy to say this after his unsuccessful (and successful - Renault) change. I don't understand the reason for those comments. Like imagine if Hamilton stayed at McLaren? Yet his Mercedes change is one of the best decisions ever made. And we only know this after the fact. So to criticize Daniel for the exact same thing is highly stupid, but then again, it's Horner.


StarOfSlytherin

Horner had said he would have understood if Daniel went to Ferrari or Mercedes. Going to Renault when their engine was responsible for so many DNFs probably pissed Horner


jug_23

People at the time were insistent Hamilton was making a mistake too. Now let’s be honest - Renault haven’t kicked on like they promised, so it hasn’t worked out as hoped, but it wasn’t inherently a bad decision. It’s also a shame that Red Bull haven’t recognised that their behaviour also contributed to his desire to leave.


Fa_Ratt

Hes being criticized for leaving Red Bull, not just any team.. Horner’s team.


carmooch

As likeable as Ricciardo is regardless, I’ve always admired that he has remained committed to his ultimate goal of becoming a world champion.


CaptGeechNTheSSS

Come on, of course he's going to say that. But look at what rosberg had to do to become champion. Ricciardo was never that dedicated and is all talk.


CGordini

Daily Mirror shitposting, this isn't worth the ink it's printed on, or the bytes used to transmit.


Retsko1

Reddit will not admit that it was a bad decision to leave red bull no matter where you look at it. I wonder if he could've returned for 2021


Supergreen62

He was Renaults best driver by far the time he was there


Jake5013

I get the comments about his Renault stint and how much money he made. The biggest piece is that he genuinely could have fought for a championship racing for RB. So many drivers would kill for that opportunity.


LewAshby309

When i do something stupid i don't earn many many millions.


Comeonbereal1

I don’t think if he stayed at RB, he would’ve achieved anything because of the rivalry between him and max. Maybe now that he’s back, he can understand Perez frustration and be more supportive towards him


33jeremy

Hindsight is 20/20 but if he didn’t take the leap he would have wondered “what if” plus now he has cashed in bigger checks and has gained new experiences at a different environment. Welcome home Daniel-san


Retawtrams

let me fall back in love with DR all over again. I'm still not over the first break up. If something ever comes of it, I hope it's all the lost love and positivity DR has missed since leaving.


heydie

All drivers (supposedly) think they are the best on grid. Staying at RBR he would have a chance to prove that going head to head with Max. Yes - RBR backs Max. But they back whoever is fastest and shows more potential. He had a chance to prove it.


haldouglas

It's interesting watching people try to oversimplify this. I think his leaving RedBull was based on a number of factors, including their prior record with favouring one driver, wanting to go his own way a bit, maybe some flattery to his ego too. Also, it wasn't a bad choice, if you're going to move to try and win races it had better be with a factory team and Renault were the only one available. It seems like the Renault move wasn't too bad a choice to me, they're not RedBull but they're doing pretty well. The move to McLaren was undoubtedly a bad move. But there's a possibility that he got spooked by the talk of Renault pulling out of F1. I wonder if he started putting feelers out and found that he got on really well with Zak compared to Cyril and that got the deal over the line even though by then Renault had stabilised. Then, what happened at McLaren made no sense. His performance loss was kind of unheard of. His decision to leave seemed daft to me too, but hearing him talk about it recently on Beyond the Grid, I think he's not in the best place in terms of motivation. So, yeah there's more to that decision than I thought. Anyway - there's a lot of speculation in there - most is based on reports from news media though rather than just my imagination. In any case, I think you'll find that the answer to why Dan chose to go where he did at whatever point is "it's complicated".


aristooooo

Boss still salty former employee left for a pay rise


swedishchef4205

And left plenty of wins, podiums and 2 championship opportunities and he’ll now never get


theresabonfire

If you think RB would've given DRic a championship opportunity against Max you're deluding yourself


Honourstly

And then I go and spoil it all By saying somethin' stupid like, "I leave you"


1enox

>Horner expects Ricciardo will rediscover his love of F1 following his return to the team. “Daniel is such a great personality and big character. We felt it was right to bring him back into the team – and of course promotionally, he’s got the biggest smile in F1. He may rediscover that but does any team will want him to give him a seat ? Thats the problem for him. He might be ready, but teams will not be interested with him.


BeauL83

Hindsight is 20-20


Xanthon

It really isn't. [Horner stated a few times back in 2018 that he believes DR will regret his decision](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2018/8/podcast--christian-horner-red-bull-ricciardo.html). Even the majority of fans were shocked and kept our fingers crossed, hoping it'll be a Hamilton-Mercedes situation and that DR saw something at Renault that we didn't.


BeauL83

The real mistake came when he left Renault


f10101

What was the alternative? Live life as a Perez as Red Bull?


trekk

Perez has a drive and he doesn't, sooooooo.


meowzaspin

Is 2 not greater than 3 or 4 or whatever the fuck Danny is now?


f10101

Better to aim high and miss than aim low and hit.


Retsko1

It wasn't even aiming high to begin with, Renault weren't putting in the money that the top 3 were


Xanthon

That's the problem. He aimed low by leaving RB. Aiming high will be staying at RB to try and beat Max.


zCxtalyst

Yeah but I don’t think he or anyone really expected him to fall flat on his face for bad driving considering he was one of the best on the grid


Fibonacci924

And he was good in the Renault!


Fearless-Temporary29

That's me boy Danny ray.


Beeswildlife

No he didn't. He left because he didn't want to be treated as a No.2 driver. It's not exactly like he kept quiet about his position in the RB team before leaving them originally. And it's not like RB don't have a history of favouring their younger, faster talent. And wouldn't they? I would do the dame thing. For that reason, he did the right thing. Would he have been closer to winning a WDC at Red Bull if he stayed? Yeah. Would he have won a WDC at Red Bull if he stayed? No. I don't think so anyway. Not when there's a faster driver who's getting priority from the tram. He took a gamble that another team could step up and put him machinery that could compete. It didn't work. But at least he did it on his terms.


EddieMcDowall

Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy for anyone to say that now. However, I think it was clear at the time that no matter how good Daniel became he was never going to be given even equal footing with Max. Max was (and is) seen as everything to Red Bull and Horner, all their eggs were firmly bedded into that basket and nothing Daniel did was going to change that. Daniel (as are all F1 drivers at this level) was supremely confident in his abilities and honestly thought with the right car / team he could become WDC, so he moved. At the time I agreed with him although I found Renault to be a bit of a surprise.