Hard to know which inter team implosion is going to be better next year AM or Alpine...


My personal top tip is actually McLaren, as Norris has never dealt with rearward pressure before. He's only ever had the opportunity to overachieve relative to expectation. Now he *has* to be ahead or questions get asked. I think Ricciardo has done an admirable job of dealing with that. Took it on the chin, which I'm not sure Norris would very well. Or not, who's to say. Just a thought!


> I think Ricciardo has done an admirable job of dealing with that. Took it on the chin, which I'm not sure Norris would very well. I’ve been guilty of knocking Danny Ric, and I still question his work ethic and being more interested in being an influencer instead of putting in the hard work that it takes to be champion. But one thing I can’t fault is his attitude with his poor performances. No blaming the car, no blaming the team, not stirring shit against Lando. He’s purely said it’s his fault and he hasn’t been fast enough, respect at least for that.


And not only that, in his desperation he's never thrown it off the road.


Unlikely that Piastri is that close, but in the case that he is, I think you'll be spot on. It's a good comment to save up for 9-24 months in case you can weaponize it later!


Carlos kind of had the best of him, that being said, he was green compared to Carlos.


that's their point though, when he was paired with carlos he wasn't expected to be the no.1 and to consistently be the fastest. he was beating rookie expectations. now he's got the weight of being the bonafied no.1 driver on his shoulders. i reckon he'll do fine, but it's certainly an interesting idea to think about.


Well ricciardo actually won a race, norris hasnt. Even though he got dropped i think that helped him to prevent the implosion. I feel like its a statement for himself that says he knows that he still has it. Maybe if he can pull some weird shit in 2024 he might replace perez there. Just a thought.


He's the ultimate Chad. Underperformed, won a race, refused to elaborate further, left.


If there was 2 people i wouldn’t want to race it would be Stroll and Ocon since i’d be scared for my life Wanted to say Latifi but he would only hurt the barrier


Tbf putting Ocon on the same tier as fking Stroll or Latifi is a little too much.


I actually admire Ocon’s big French bollocks. Your teammate is double world-champion Fernando Alonso Ocon: *I’m giving him fucking nothing*


Lance Stroll has 1 more podium than Esteban Ocon.


Esteban Ocon is a race winner.


Lance Stroll is a pole sitter


How is winning a pole better than an actual race??


You could argue that Lance got pole unassisted by anyone, directly against the best on the grid, sitting in the 3rd fastest car on the grid. Esteban won a GP after qualifying 8th and then some of the most competitive cars on the grid crashed out, the fastest car effectively started from beyond the back of the grid. Then his team mate blocked the fastest car on the grid for about 1/7th of the GP in assisting the win.


Esteban Ocon is a full-born Frenchman.


Stoll is a team owner and a full-born billionaire


But he's from Quebec.




He is a race winner thanks to Lance Stroll taking out Charles Leclerc and himself


Let's be real here- he owes that one fully to Bottas wiping out both Bulls on turn 1 and Mercedes having a car that's 1 sec/lap faster than the rest for so long that they were lazy on the formation lap strategy and didn't call Lewis in.


Very well. Sir Lancelot it is.


Why? I think Ocon is very fair as a teammate. For some reason people think that you just have to let your teammate pass regardless of whatever your teammate is doing. Like Today, Alonso just went for a pass that just wasn’t there. Is Ocon supposed to just say, “Alonso’s being incredibly ambitious, but since he is my teammate brake mid turn even though I am ahead of him”?




The Alonso saga seems unending in both length and amusement. I hope AM works out for him.


\> I hope AM works out for him. You do know who owns the team, right?


And Eeeh His teammate next year


Just like your penis


the rare penis compliment






which coincidentally he named, "The Alonso Saga"




A new challenge begins next year


Saving grace being Alonso would probably be ahead of Stroll most of the time.


people said the same about Vettel


Vettel is not on the same level as Alonso though.


Yeah above


He was for a few seasons. Not anymore tho.


I don’t think Alonso is in his prime as well.


He isn’t. He’s just hanging on at the elite level for an unnaturally long time. It’s honestly impressive and in no way a slight on Vettel. Vettel’s career trajectory is normal for ageing athletes slowly losing pace or motivation.


Hamilton is 2.5 years older than Vettel. I wouldn't say that he is ageing or losing pace. I really don't believe Alonso is much better than Vettel, even now. The AM is just terrible.


Shhh, he’s on a roll.


Yea, that is true, double the WDCs and almost double the wins. Surely not the same level as Alonso.


The past is not the present


And next year this present will be the past.


Alonso is more adaptable than Vettel. Both are world champions




People do realize Seb is a younger WDC with more titles right? Alonso may be good but Seb is pretty good too.


Yeah good luck with that when Aston keep giving Stroll the latest upgrades while making up some random reasons on the spot and getting him ahead by screwing Alonso.


You can't crash into your teammate if your teammate is far behind you. Very smart move of Alonso.


Stroll starts performing, Alonso intensive sweating.


Stroll needs to start getting race bans until he learns to stop being such an entitled little shit.


Also the same dude who almost killed him in Austin


I don't want to jinx it but I have a feeling Alonso will be faster than Stroll




This is one of the main reasons why I expect Aston Martin would be the most troublesome team next season in terms of drama, we all know Stroll is AM first choice for trying new parts for example and unlike Checo or Seb, Alonso wouldn't shut his mouth and trying to make a whole drama out of that.


Off track I can see it but on track it's fully gonna be Ocon and gasly, both will try to make the point that they are the new team leader and there's also the fact they don't really get along.


Agreed. That shit is gonna be a full on French civil war after a couple of races.


Yep. Even more so neither is significantly faster than the other. Maybe Gasly slightly is? They should be fighting near each other very often. Unlike presumably Alonso who will ahead of Stroll most times.


This whole thing is mainly based on a karting beef in the past, there was some rumour that Gasly was trying to heal this beef some years ago but it looks like the thing is more overblown and those two are showing efforts to repair it. Anyway I don't think it's going to be worser than what it is with Alonso, those two has grown up and I expect they deal with it more professional then what people are expecting.


The fact that alpine had to takes measures to avoid a feud just says everything. [I am told that in an effort to keep friction to a minimum both drivers have been informed that they can have family at only two events a year, and that the two families cannot attend the same races."](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gpblog.com/en/amp/146620/alpine-takes-precaution-due-to-tie-between-gasly-and-ocon-families.html)


That sounds more like their families don’t get along, not that they don’t. Beef like that from childhood often has more to do with parents than kids.


It's so obviously going to end in tears. Alonso will push push push both on and off track as is his nature and inevitably fall out with Lawrence Stroll because both of them are the brook no argument types. I honestly don't understand why Alonso - who is famously paranoid about driver status and hierarchy - has chosen to join a team of nepotism, where the owner literally employs and covers for his average son, even though it makes 0 business sense. It's so obviously going to end in tears at Aston Martin.


Vettel is faster than Stroll too, doesn't mean Stroll doesn't have chances to kill him


he's going to Vandoorne him


He already tried to take him out too.


Fortunate for him, unlike ocon, lance is a shit qualifier and doubt they'll come together.


Alonso would likely find issue with pretty much anyone over a long enough timeline. But yeah, with his new partner it’s not going to take long


He didn't with Fisico, he didn't with Massa (yes, Germany 2010 happened but it was not personal), he didn't Jenson or Vandoorne. All i named were at least 2 years.


He is going from worse to worst


And his daddy can fire you, don't forget that!


Translation in title is incorrect. He said "It makes me laugh, specially being 15th and he 18th, it is very funny". Not "Starting P8 and finishing P15 is very funny".


The real issue was driving into the back of him on the straight no?


Ocon's car got fucked up after contact in turn 4 after he pushed Alonso wide. But the contact on the straight was 100% Alonso's fault


I don’t even think the T4 thing was that egregious, it was more so of Alonso losing grip and hitting Ocon’s side pod.


We saw last year drivers go off turn 4 and keep themselves in the face, they accepted they lost and chose to continue living. Alonso clearly tries to stay side by side after already being squeezed causing damage to his teammate. Its a ok move from Ocon to do in a race and a not so ok move to do to your teammate but still all within his rights. Actually the majority of incidents between this two can be defined by "nothing that egregious".


nothing egregious rules wise, just stupid and unnecessary every single time cuz getting passed by your teammate seems to be a fate worse than death to ocon.


Ocon's tires touched the white line on the outside of the track with a car on his outside. He pushed Fernando off and caused contact with him, in violation of the regulations.


Alonso sent it around the outside anyway when he’d already lost the corner


Cool, and if Alonso controls his car it’s a lap 1 deal. He’s not the only one who was forced off in the first few corners. There’s twenty cars and it’s not Talladega.


do you realize there are more laps to race?


Alonso was behind Ocon going into the breaking zone. To me he was definitely not close enough to pull the overtake off. Because Ocon is ahead and I'd say it's his corner, so he can choose his line and Alonso needs to bail out. I'd post a screenshot of Alonso's onboard to show he won the battle to the corner. But the F1TV app won't let me :( Anyway, not the smartest move by Alonso but also not ideal by Ocon, considering they are teammates. Edit: Hamilton's POV (behind both) makes an even better case for Ocon.


Might be a case of the curbs not agreeing with the ride height which means pushing people wide there might be dangerous for everyone involved. We will find out!


They’re low grip to begin with then you combine the new ultra stiff suspension, low ride height to bottom out onto an uneven curb, and Alonso stubbornly trying to hold a tight line instead of running well wide like we’be seen drivers do at T4 before.


I saw it as Ocon having the inside of the corner but pushing Alonso all the way out of the track on exit. Alonso was entitled to space as I believe he was fully side by side at one point.


Yup, imo both cases are more on Alonsos side of fault..


He is the master of rallying people's hate. Throws discord everywhere and tries to pretend the media is the one to blame. His fans will attack Ocon once more even though he was the victim of Fernando's poor judgement today.


Judging by the palpable bitterness in his comments about Ocon after the race he's also having trouble getting over the facts that (a) Alpine picked Ocon over him, and (b) barring a major upheaval in the two remaining races, he'll have gone two seasons being outscored by him.


He outscored Ocon last season.


You're right, my bad. He still seems bitter though.


He's frustrated. He's a racing driver, he's supposed to be unhappy losing. He could handle it more gracefully, that's for sure. But it's the same passion that makes him a great driver even at that age.


Thank you. Didn't wanna say this but Alonso is getting into a lot of incidents recently and needs to look at himself in the mirror


I think he already had damage from turn 4, and Ocon's car just caught fire probably from that same damage. Contact on the straight is a bonus


I don’t think he had any damage no, he just crashed into the back of Ocon and won’t admit fault


Did you read the quote? He's talking about the contact in T4, not the thing on the straight.


Yeah I’m saying I didn’t think he had any damage from the turn 4 incident, I might need to watch a replay but it looked close but no real contact.


It doesn't seem like he had damage, no. Obviously there was contact in turn 4, and that's why Ocon car was on fire and ended behind Alonso in the race, but doesn't seem like Alonso had significant damage from that hit. Alonso was clearly at fault on the second incident, that's out of any doubt.


Sorry, then i must have missunderstood your comment. There was some contact tho, thats why Ocon had a hole in his sidepod. No idea if Alonso had any damage because of it tho


He said after the race and to the stewards that the straight was his fault.




I don’t remember God being this toxic in the New Testament. Is Alonso Old Testament God?


It depends on the book. Yeah. Or he could be one of the Greek Gods.


Yeah, I don’t understand what Alonso was thinking. He see a lot of overtakes like that on the straight and they always go much more to the right. It seems on the straight that was 100 on Alonso


Why do I have the feeling that next year the Alpine is going to be good.


Ocon was aggressive this year with Alonso, and he liked Alonso (more or less), I expect him to be a lot more aggressive with Gassly (they do hate each other, despite making amends recently for PR), and I expect more Alpine races ruined because of that.


>they do hate each other how do you know this tho ? And Alonso was at fault today, Ocon was a car lenght ahead both time and Alonso was on the outside.


Alpine told the families of Gasly and Ocon that they won't be allowed to attend the same events next year. So if there isn't bad blood between the two of them, there at least seems to be a lot of bad blood between their families.


Do you think theyll have to draw straws for the French GP?


There is no French GP in 2023, at least not currently.


FIA will give special dispensation to Alpine to have one garage at start of the pitlane, and the other garage at the end of the pitlane. The pit wall will be put in the middle of the pit straight so that no driver is disadvantaged.


Yeah and didn't they also say the families were only allowed to attend like two GPs each? Alpine's guidelines might just be weird and restrictive, it's stupid to assume Gasly and Ocon are going to be driving into each other or other shit.


Gasly and Ocon used to be close friends as kids, but fell out somewhere in their teens over race stuff. I don't think they really hate eachother anymore now that they've grown up a bit, but they're not exactly great friends again either. No one here really knows what the relationship between the two is like now, we'll just have to see next year.


From everything I‘ve heard through the grapevine and rumours, it‘s indeed much worse between the families than between the drivers now. Something about fighting for sponsorships while climbing up the ladder and a lingering bad taste due to that. Ocon and Gasly have always raced very well against each other IIRC, with the exception of Gasly putting Ocon into the wall at the start of the French GP in 2018, but that didn‘t come with any malicious intent.


Because Nandy boy always makes terrible career choices, car performance wise at least


Honestly I hope so, because Alonso is so pointlessly showing bad faith all the time it's fucking tiring. Guy fully deserves his career of missed opportunities, that's what happens when you have a pathological impossibility of admitting responsability and portray yourself as the victime all the time.


People are hyped for the EL PLAN but in reality it was a final step for the big LE 🅿️LAN of Alpine!


He literally drove into the back of Ocon.


Fact, and he don't want to admit it in front of cameras, only in front of the stewards


Even if turn 4 incident was 50-50 (which it is not) putting such an aggressive move on your teammate at the first lap of a sprint when sunday's race is crucial for the WCC is not playing the team's game. I love Alonso and I'm sad to see him leaving the team at the end of the year but that was stupid to take that much risk for so little possible rewards. Anyway, let's turn full recovery mode for tomorrow.


Because for that very same reasoning, one expects them to leave more space.


You are not required to give space to a car attempting an overtake around the outside unless they are ahead at the apex. Alonso was not even fully alongside, let alone ahead. He fucked around and found out. Source, page 2 middle paragraph: [FIA 2022 Driving Standard Guidline](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2022%20Imola%20Event%20-%20FIA%20F1%20Driving%20Standard%20Guidelines.pdf)


Ocon didnt swerve, Alonso just left it too late, and now blames Ocon for it. Alonso should absolutely be to blame for both cars falling out of the top 10 today, he wont ever admit fault though.


I wonder if he's lowkey regretting defending for his life in Hungary lmaooo


Nah, because Alonso's biggest mission in life is to shit on and make life difficult for Lewis-- keeping Lewis behind, for the sake of it, was more important to Alonso, than helping Ocon win


His motivation was 1% keep the team happy, 99% screw over Lewis, and 0% help Ocon.


I understand the one on the straight but I legitimately have 0 idea how people in the sub blame Alonso for the turn 4 incident even though even Otmar said Ocon should've left more space


In my view, the move by Alonso wasn't going to work if Ocon doesn't concede the position. Ocon defended hard, that's right. At the same time, Alonso went for a gap that would always disappear. From a team perspective, Ocon could have left more space. And Alonso could have waited for a better opportunity than forcing this move.


Alonso was very agressive there too, forcefully attacking to the outside during the corner, basically expecting Ocon just leaves space there when he doesn't have to. I think it's just a racing accident, not clearly either ones fault.


Ocon is on the racing line and doesnt break to let ragemoster Alonso through who just made 2 misstakes the previous corners. "Its Ocons fault!".. idk what race others are watching, but Alonso is one hell of a shit stirer when he makes the misstakes himself.


Yeah, he even mentions turn 4 quite clearly. Some people just can't read or listen I guess.


Does not change the fact that turn 4 was not Ocon's fault. He was in front and it was his corner to make.


Well they had 2 incidents in 24 laps, in one of them, they share the blame quite evenly, but in the other, Alonso is at fault for at least 90%. Seems quite funny that after that he tours the media with quotes likes this.


It was a no fault racing incident IMO. Ocon was ahead and on the racing line, Alonso tried going wide and ran onto the kerbs, losing grip and when he rejoined had no space and bumped Ocon. Ocon could have given him more room, Alonso could have not rejoined when there wasnt room. The contact on the straight was 100% alonso's fault and he should acknowledge that.


Yeah I agree. Alonso got pushed wide rapidly. Imagine getting on to that kerb in that angle in that speed. Alonso's car wasn't able to live with it and went into ocon's car.


Does everyone have to have the same opinion as Otmar?


Because people are sheep and Alonso is a hot mouthed driver. People can't understand that both parties can be right or wrong without nullifying the other.


"people are sheep" and you listen to Alonsos shittalk when he does misstake after misstake and runs into his teammate.. Sure we are the sheep that doesnt listen to his BS and actually watch the race.


The day Fernando accepts full responsibility for anything will be the day he achieves enlightenment.


Avoiding responsibility like the plague


So he's already enlightened then? There's many examples, even if you only need one: https://racingnews365.com/alonso-admits-he-deserved-to-be-punished-after-miami-gp


he admited his fault on the straight after the race


Only towards the stewards, not to the media where he stoked the hate for Ocon.




Ocon was ahead, and had the apex. The fact that Alonso got forced wide was because he left his car in way past the point of no return. If this had happened between any other drivers we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.


Didn’t he say he could have, rather than should? I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure he said could which is quite the difference.


Lmao dude. Ocon barely did anything


Literally was his own fault. Anyone with an ounce of a brain would back out . And why the f was he so close to Ocon the massive straight. The man’s a tit. I’ve no idea why he gets so much love.


Alonso by far the saltiest driver on the grid.


I feel like people are confusing the 2 incidents. Look, Alonso was 100% at fault for the one on the straight. But that one only did damage to Alonso's car. The Turn 4 incident, Ocon was way too aggressive, which forced Alonso's car on the curbs, which made it lose traction and damaged the side of Ocon's car, which caused him to tumble down the grid. At the very best it was a racing incident, but when even Otmar admits that Ocon should've left more space there.


On the straight is pretty clear Alonso fault. T4 is very tricky because Ocon was still ahead and didn’t exactly push him off, just took the racing line he is entitled by being ahead. He can’t leave space unless he took the corner much much slower. I would vote it’s a racing incident


See, I'd argue that Ocon taking the racing line he's entitled to (which I agree, it was his corner) means it's Alonso's fault. Maybe still a racing incident, but still Alonso's fault.


Ocon is on exactly the same line through turn 4 as the cars infront and behind him. Alonso is the odd one out. Otmar just saying that because they're both from same team.


And Ocon is entitled to have the racing line. At that point it’s impossible to give him the space. Either Ocon cornered much slowly to be more on the inside or at that point in time he is unable to be more inside. Alonso should have lifted and let him go. Ocon didn’t push Alonso off, he just took the normal racing line and Alonso wasn’t really alongside him


Alonso was too stubborn to back out and tuck into the queue of cars behind Ocon. That was wreckless to send it expecting the driver with much stronger, and legal, position to cede it. He tried to bully Ocon on track and now he’s doing it in the press.


Turn 4 wasn't nice by Ocon, but he didn't do something illegal. Alonso just didn't expect him to be aggressive. You have to expect that the driver on the inside will force you wide, though.


yeah how tf people thinking Ocon was too aggressive in T4 lmao, that’s just pure racing


"The Turn 4 incident, Ocon was way too aggressive" My man Alpine both well in the Top 10 and Alonso lunches a outsidepass while not being ahead at any point during that ... that is the aggressive move.. I dont understand what ppl expect Ocon to do. He has the racingline he is ahead and he takes the racing line. Ocon did everything thats allowed in the rules judging by this and last Years Standard. Its hard racing and Alonso lost the control of his car that caused all this Downfall.


Ocon defended the inside, Alonso stuck it out around the outside knowing the racing line goes to the edge of the track. Ocon did nothing wrong here. Otmar is managing the team dynamic for the remainder of the season, his opinion is biased - forget it.


yes it only damaged his car but here he is crying that he is far back of the grid cause of Ocon , when if he didn't touch him on the straigh his race would have been good. Can't cry about your mate ruinning your race when you ruin it yourself


T4 is very tricky to judge, because Ocon could‘ve left more room (how much I actually fault him for that depends on if he saw Alonso), but Alonso made a mistake by going full throttle over the kerb, maybe trying to extend the move later into the right-hander up the hill. IMO neither party was wholly to blame there.


It’s not tricky at all. Ocon was on the racing line with his wheels ahead. Alonso just hung it in there and got what you should expect when you have absolutely no right winning the corner.


Alonso my old friend. Sometimes you need to look at yourself too.


Alonso needs to take some of the blame himself. The contact on the straight was just dumb and totally Fernando's fault, he's driven like that before. Honestly, I bet Ocon will be happy to see the back of him.


Alonso’s gonna be seeing the back of Ocon a lot next year. If he gets close.


Clearly Lewis’s fault


That kind of interviews are part of the reason why no top team wanted him after he left Ferrari.


I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad...


I think the incident on the straight was Alonso's fault. Ocon could have maybe given a bit more room in t4, but it's hard to say. I doubt Ocon had enough grip with dirty air and being off the racing line to give it.


Oldest man in F1 and acting like a child.


Fernando, mate, **it was your fault.**


Not turn 4 though


Turn 4 isn’t why he had a disaster of a sprint.


The move in turn 4 was never going to work. Ocon had every right to go back to the racing line. Sometimes it really seems Alonso expects his team mates to just hand him positions.


Yes it was. Per the [FIA 2022 Driving Standards Guidelines](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2022%20Imola%20Event%20-%20FIA%20F1%20Driving%20Standard%20Guidelines.pdf) you must be ahead at the apex when attempting an overtake around the outside to earn space. Alonso was not even fully alongside at the apex do T4 but sent it anyway expecting a driver ahead of him in legal position on the racing line to back out.


I mean, [sure he was forced a bit wide](https://streamable.com/f7ozir), but it really wasn't anything to be this salty about, especially after straight up running into Ocons back just a bit later.


Turn 4 was **clearly** a racing incident


Fernando it was very clearly your fault this time


Honestly he should also pull out from the slipstream a lot earlier. Same thing happened in COTA. Don’t put yourself in unnecessary risky situations.


Typical Alonso


Stop driving into your teammate then bud. It was entirely on you.


Maybe stop ramming your team mate


Not sure why people talk about the straight since he's mentioning T4 here. But anyway, T4 was on Ocon, you cant just drive someone off the track.


You need to be ahead at the apex to earn space when attempting an overtake around the outside. Alonso was not even fully alongside and forced it anyway. Ocon was under no obligation to come off the racing line to give space. It’s on Fernando. [2022 FIA Driving Standards Guide](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2022%20Imola%20Event%20-%20FIA%20F1%20Driving%20Standard%20Guidelines.pdf)


Alonso tried an overtake on the outside and was never in front. In this situation a driver doesn't have to leave space on corner exit.


When you aren't fully alongside passing on the outside you can get run wide. Alonso would do, and has done, the exact same thing.


If you're trying to overtake around the outside of a corner, your car needs to be fully level with the car on the inside, or ahead, at the apex of the corner, otherwise the guy on the inside is allowed to use the full width of the track at the corner exit. The guy on the outside should back off after realising that they're behind at the apex, knowing that they're going to be pushed wide if they won't back down.


He didn't drive Alonso off the track but. He could have left more space but Ocon definitely took his line


I dont really get how anyone likes this guy


Not a fan of Ocon but he did nothing wrong today. This is just Alonso being Alonso.


T4 was a racing incident. Ocon is on the inside and slightly ahead at the apex and at the end of the corner. It's his corner and he doesn't have to give any space to Fernando by the letter of the law and Alonso likely wouldn't give any space if the roles were reversed and that's the same for most drivers. However, given that they are teammates, he probably should give a little more space as you both need to make sure your cars end up in 1 piece by the end


Old man yells at cloud.


Alonso’s a pretty bitter dude these days


Well it was his fault. But next year Lance is going to crash into him because he got a notification and the whole team will blame Alonso.


>Lance is going to crash into him because he got a notification and the whole team will blame Alonso. The team dynamics are definitely going to be interesting provided stroll doesn't kill anyone before then