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AddAFucking

A race is usually more exciting if the grid is mixed up. And towards the middle of the race it usually gets a little boring. Sprint races just extend the start of the race, and make the entire full race that middle period. Everyone is already where they will finish up, or close to it. No-one will take that much risk anymore either. If you crash you are screwed for the race. So perhaps try a first lap overtake off the line, and then just settle into your position. Also normal qualifying is already very exciting, and this sprint makes it not as important. It also moves it to a friday, so less people are able to watch it live due to work.


DeathG1998

I think qualifying could get a bit more interesting if there was no parc ferme for sprint weekends. Everyone gets the car into race trim even more than on normal weekends. This would coukd give a more interesting qualifying and race. Even though smaller teams might have an additional disadvantage here.


leef-fy

But the sunday race is a full reset of strats and tires and possibilities, not a continuation of some DRS train? I think race order gets shuffled a fair bit on lap 1 anyway/eitherway I think normal qualifying is superb too btw


AddAFucking

Imagine we make a new rule. for a few races a year, without any cause, we will insert a red flag in the middle of it. Not because of an accident. Just to 'make it more exciting'. Seems artificial right? That is what a sprint race is. You drive for a few laps, finish and get a few points, and continue from there with a new grid start. It just doesn't have a point.


nefariousBUBBLE

That's not a one to one comparison, as you'd still be counted for those laps (whereas in sprint you still have the full race after) and you wouldn't get extra points for your finish during the first red flag. And do they get an extra set of tires for the sprint? I get your sentiment, but I find it reductive. In your example it is indeed useless. I think it's nice for a change of pace and maybe allows the middle teams who overqualified to get some extra points instead where they'd usually just drop places after the first pit window. I do think 5 is too much though. I like just having 1 or 2.


ReallySmallWeenus

Your suggestion works for NASCAR. Lol.


Bhix

Wouldn’t really say it works when a large portion of NASCAR fans don’t like it and they’ve been slowly losing fans for years.


F0rgemaster19

Question from someone who doesn't watch NASCAR- what's happening with it that it's losing fans?


Bhix

-Constant changes to the points format, they’ve made changes roughly every 2-3 years since 2004. Right now they use a Playoff format where points are reset constantly and the Champion is decided based on the final race, doesn’t really matter how good you were all year. -Changing the race format to be 3 Stages broken up by guaranteed Safety Car periods instead of one continuous race, which reduced strategy options where everyone mostly did the same thing every race for a while. -Huge changes to the way the cars drive with less horsepower and more downforce so they were full throttle at nearly half the tracks. Changed again this year with a new car, slightly better but still lower horsepower and lots of grip. These aren’t all of NASCAR’s issues, but it’s 3 of the biggest currently. I quit watching because I realized I hated basically everything about the races after all the changes, it just wasn’t the same sport I grew up with anymore. Not everybody disagrees with all the above, some may only dislike 1, or may like them all. But they all are very controversial and not overwhelmingly liked even by the fans that are still watching.


thehenks2

Nascar races are divided in 3 stages. Top 10 in stage 1 and 2 get points. I don't think the stages are the issue, it's the 4 lap caution that follows, and the stupid amount of commercials they put in there. It kind of ruins strategy if you already know you're going to have 2 safety cars at planned moments.


berlin_draw_enjoyer

That’s why reverse grid sprints would be a great idea


404merrinessnotfound

But then people will complain it's too artificial, and swaying towards entertainment, even though sports is literally entertainment. Like I get we shouldn't go full nascar, but you really can't please everyone


berlin_draw_enjoyer

The fundamental problem with qualifying is that it helps the fastest team. In a such uneven sport like f1, that’s overkill. Not only does one team has the fastest car, it also starts in the front, essentially having a double advantage


GourmetHotPocket

Solution: everyone does qualifying in a spec Smart car, then the race in an F1 car.


IgnatiosMp

The biggest gripe I have with it is that it helps the faster teams. If Perez, for example, fucks up in quali, it doesn't matter, because he'll win some positions in the sprint race. We should be going in the opposite direction.


MANDIOSAL

Because it isn't that action packed, at least from what i've seen, drivers are much more cautious when battling, because ofc they dont want to lose positions for sunday, so it feels more like a mini monaco gp, where there almost no overtakes.


HankHippopopolous

Exactly. In every sprint race so far the only action we’ve seen has been from fast cars that qualified out of position. They then get close to their normal position and the race is much more dull for it. If they insist on sprint races I wish they’d go all in. Make them reverse grids and have no effect on the main race starting places. Then we’d have an all action sprint and drivers wouldn’t need to be risk averse. At the moment we’re in this weird half way measure where they try to make the sprint a part of the race but all it does is dilute itself, dilute qualifying and dilute the main race.


AnyStupidQuestions

It should be points on offer for the slower teams with reverse grids based on the last race’s finishing positions. Then qualifying is as normal.


duncanspurs

This may be true last year but with cost cap I imagine the teams line will still be “don’t crash our multimillion dollar car for F1’s charades”


[deleted]

Theres no reason it should set the grid. Easily my biggest issue with it. Teams would actually take risks.


MANDIOSAL

Agreed, if they want sprints, it shouldnt set the grid for sunday, let it be its own event separate from the main race


Fanfaron07

Yes ! In my opinion, the quali on Friday should set the grid for the race and they should get rid of fp3 and put a one lap qualification for the sprint race.


mformularacer

This is the only change I'd make. Otherwise Sprint races are awesome.


Competitive-Ad-498

Most drivers from 8th to 20th spot are cautious and at some moment they start to cruise to the finish.


MrDaniel95

Yeah, it would be better if the format was similar to the one used in F2/F3 with the reverse grid. But even then, I would still prefer the original format, the big difference between all the cars will cause the RedBull/Ferrari/Mercedes cars end in front of the others anyway.


MANDIOSAL

No need, i think sprint races could be massively improved if they just used quali to set the grid for both sprints and the races


reck1265

Where are the offensive and defensive aggression happening? Which track are you alluding to? The drivers themselves have no love for them and have said they’re not even attempting a pass let alone be aggressive because the downside far outweighs the reward.


HandsOffMyPizzaa

It ruins the flow of the weekend for me. I work Fridays so no Quali for me, then on Saturday the sprint just leaves me with blue balls, and then the race on Sunday is just boring because all the Quali errors were already corrected in the sprint.


formerforest

Honestly, I just get nervous about them crashing before the actual Sunday race. I don’t think that they are that useful for shaking up the field, and the added stress hasn’t been worth it.


DethMagnetic

Because the sprint race determines your starting position for the actual race, that pays the big points, it's just not worth it to risk spinning out, or being crushed out of the sprint race. Most drivers are aware of that and are being extra cautious. Not to mention, it's extra runtime, which brings stress to the power units and basically guarantees a couple extra components, which means grid penalties. The traditional qualifying is just more exciting. Having to pull out a mega lap out of nowhere, trying to find the extra tenth...


ad_triarios_rediit

Too short for any strategy and too long to be entertaining from a racing point of view. Once the first two laps are done you could call it there most of the time.


Widestylize321

There’s no point imo. It’s just more extra points for the faster cars and a waste of money. There’s been no entertainment except for Brazil 2021 and that was because Lewis started from the back.


Stumpy493

This is why I would like sprints to be reversed grids. Offer something different and let us see another element of driver skills.


sh1phappens

The drivers would hate it. Iirc it was Russell saying that it would be incredibly humiliating to be overtaken by the entire field if you’re in the worst car starting first


Widestylize321

Drivers would just decide to set the slowest time they can get away with lol


Stumpy493

Not if quali set the grid for the main race


[deleted]

They just show us what is going to happen in the race, give minimal points, and set the starting grid when quali should. It sucks


jackoirl

My particular dislike of it is that it ruins qualifying for me. The excitement of getting into Q3 and then seeing who ends up on pole is just gone.


GodTierGasly

It feels like I'm watching a 24 hour long red flag. "Hey, we've started the race. Go home, come back tomorrow and we'll continue."


Mr007McDiddles

I like them. Breaks up the normal routine of practice and qualifying. Something different to look forward to a handful of times a season. From a viewer standpoint I'd much rather watch a short race than qualifying, although I see the disadvantages and why the teams/drivers dislike it. Doesn't make Sunday less fun for me. Any grid start is exciting.


FoggyBottom4u

Because F1 weekends is really about 2 things: Saturday: Who can setup their car the best to get that one, fasted lap time. There's pole of course but also interesting to see which team mate out qualifies the other. Sunday: Race day Sprint races take that away


Moarten

Because: * Qualifying moves to friday, during or just after work * It removes the typical first \~10 lap action from the actual race. People who qualified better than expected and who have to defend against faster cars will start further back on sunday * Overal it adds nothing to the weekend. It's just the race split in 2 parts with no additional action. If they really want a sprint race then I'd rather see a reverse grid (whole grid of top 10 like F2 & F3) so it doesn't take away any of the action on sunday AND adds some proper racing on saturday. Qualifying on friday or saturday morning will be just as important as on non-sprint weekends, which currenly isn't the case.


FlatTextOnAScreen

As many have already said, the sprint session neutralises the race. Usually it takes 1/3 of the race when race-pace matches car/driver and everyone is sort of where they belong. That's what sprint races do to a Sunday race, more or less everyone starts according to race-pace, almost nullifying the quali session.


Stumpy493

Their current implementation is just meaningless. Because the grid is set in quali for the sprint and then the sprint sets the race day grid. Essentially all the sprint race is is a pause and make the actual race longer. It adds nothing to the product. It's like throwing a red flag after 30 minutes and nothing more. Sprint races need to be their own thing. For my money I would like either reverse Sunday quali grids for sprints or reverse championship position. Then at least the sprint is different.


Southportdc

Because they're not action-packed. The only action happens if someone qualifies out of position, in which case they're just helping that driver get places back before the actual race.


Bell_Jolly

It would be very interested if sprint was 3 or 5 laps max, 18 or so its not very exciting. Thats my opinion


Loss-Sorry

It washes out any interesting or unexpected qualifying results. Say, for example, it's rainy during qualifying and the starting order is very mixed up compared to normal- that would make for a more interesting race on Sunday. Now if we add in a sprint, then the faster cars get to the front and then the race on Sunday is basically sorted already into the finishing order. Super boring. The faster teams just extend their leads in the championship faster than they would for a weekend without the sprint.


merurunrun

Because it's just driving 1/4 of a race on saturday and the other 3/4 on sunday.


crackalac

They remove action from the race, they mess up the flow of the weekends, and they are just stupid.


Ka11e2

They're pointless (technically not), shit and takes away the excitement amd prestige of the actual Grand Prix.


MrNotPink

Yes it makes Sunday duller. Everything is sorted and again we go. I also don't like to spend/plan the time for viewing these sprintraces...especially now that we got so many races a year


Infamous-Arm3955

I don’t hate them but they rarely if ever live up to the hype.


takkun169

They are inconsequential. If you take the last sprint race for example, in qualifying there was rain that shook up the running order. The sprint race happened, and just made the starting grid shake out as if the rain never happened in quali. It took away from the actual race to have the sprint race be more interesting.


misskarne

One of the biggest examples of why they suck was Brazil last year. Hamilton was disqualified from qualifying and forced to start from the back because of the wing problem. But because of the sprint race, he was able to drive all the way to fifth in that race, COMPLETELY neutralising the disqualification and putting him in position to win the race the next day - which had an impact on the championship. Without the sprint race, Hamilton would have had to start the race proper from the back. He might still have won because Mercedes were just throwing brand new rocket engines at him at that point, but he would have had to work his way through the field in proper racing conditions first.


mformularacer

Agreed. I love sprint weekends. Something to look forward to on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday! More racing is always better. Practice sessions are pretty dull.


timok

>More racing is always better So watch Indycar, F2, F3, Formula E, WEC, DTM, GT World Challenge, IMSA, WRC or any of the other hundreds of series. No need to hurt the rest of the F1 weekend over it.


mformularacer

...I don't enjoy watching those series as much as I do F1. I still haven't seen a good argument for why sprint races hurt the weekend. They make it way better. I love finishing work on Friday knowing I have qualifying to catch up on on F1TV.


Stravven

How do they make the race better? Take Brazil 2021. Hamilton was due to start at the back of the grid after his disqualification, and the sprint race gave him in essence 24 more laps to get to the front.


mformularacer

Okay? And the 2021 Brazilian grand prix was still awesome and we got to watch 2 races instead of one.


Stravven

Not really. We got donwgraded from one fight from beginning to end to two semi-fights.


slamdunk1207

>mini action packed race Lost you already there…


No_Brakes_282

People are resistant to change


zyxwl2015

I think I'm in the minority, but I don't like too much artificial randomness in the competition. With sprint races there's only one practice session where they can actually test and tune things before qualifying, and if some issue happens in FP1, then they would be heading into qualifying and the rest of the weekend with no tuning on setups or anything. I want to see all teams and all drivers to perform at their best, and to see who actually comes out in front. If it makes it less competitive so be it


42_c3_b6_67

not much is at stake and its just another race. i can only watch for so long cars going round before getting bored


duncanspurs

What open wheel race series are you referring to here? Surely based on your description of “action packed” you must mean something else. Pl


clownslayer-f1

It's kind of pointless, most of the time actions only happens in first lap, and then it's a procession as nobody wants to damage their chances for the real race. To be honest, I just don't see what's wrong with regular format. I also don't have time to watch as many sessions over the weekend anymore and F1 as it stands already is kind of interfering with weekend schedule as is.


Xyanade

it's not sprint (point a to b) at all


Banuvan

Dunno. They have them in WSBK as well and they are exciting.


CoffeeEnjoyerFrog

It's like the golden goal rule, FIFA thought it would encourage attacking football, but instead it prompted teams to park the bus for 30 minutes because it's more favorable to risk it at PK than getting a goal and be kicked out of the competition. No one will risk overtaking (or defend) like crazy, since a mistake will result in being back of the grid for the race.


twistin_my_melon_man

Sprint races bad


Bubbly_Piglet5560

I just wish they had some sort of rule change so that they were more of a variation than the race we were about to see the next day. Like scoring is team based as opposed to individual (so if Verstappen finishes 1, ferrari take 2 and 3, and perez is in 6th, then Ferrari wins the sprint). Or something even crazier like only allow bottom 10 drivers to compete....or a relay where after 12 laps one driver pits and the other comes out and finishes. You know mix it up...don't just make it an opportunity for verstappen to cement his dominance.


BittenHeroes

Imagine that the day before the World Cup final, the two finalists meet each other in a penalty shootout, and the winning team starts with a 1 point advantage the next day. More soccer? Check More goals? Check More action, with all the drama (goals, saves, mistakes) and less down-time (fouls, offside, interruption etc..)? Check I really don't see why people would hate it, right?


thecitykun

The main thing about sprint races is that it basically spoils me the race. The car that will be better in the sprint will usually win the race quite easily on Sunday. Max at Silverstone would have won. Lewis did win at Interlagos. Merc had the better pace in Monza. RBR was a step above Ferrari at Imola etc...


brush85

The least exciting part of a grand prix is usually the first stint. So all you do is recreate that stint but also give the faster teams a chance to move up from weak qually sessions. ( Or in Lewis' case...to start 10th instead of 20th in Brazil. Which was awesome but I'm still not sure how I feel about it )


THE_LFG

because it means there will be some change in the championship (sprint race championship curse is reeeal)


RaikkonensHobby74

I don't have time to watch F1 three days a week.